More a case of hindsight isn't it? As more of these disasters unfold so do patterns that allow you to look back on past events with a new perspective. After all this time, what top player would want to be here if he's serious about winning? The money doesn't come into it either, players can get more elsewhere (unless they are sub-standard, in which case this is the place to be.)Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
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There is no rewriting of history and it's not a new narrative. Nobody is revising the character of these players. The character of the players isn't what's in question. It's the character of the manager and how he tends to let contract disputes affect footballing decisions. Or more recently, how the smear campaign starts when we have a contract rebel on our hands.
The character of players like Reyes and Wiltord should very much be in question.
That and other players you cited were part of the invincibles squad, and at a time when Wenger wasn't running his own personal fiefdom.
So no I don't buy that every player leaving is on Wenger and not their own crappy attitude. We know he has become entrenched and no longer Instills a winning mentality, but I think this is the degeneration of someone who has taken on too much and now can't stand to be questioned, and instead of helping him the club are enabling this behaviour.
I've been saying the same thing about RVP and Song for ages in the way the club tried to smear their reputation. It’s not hindsight for me. For RVP, I'm talking before the 'little boy' in him spoke and before he started celebrating goals against us like a cunt.
RVP's contract talks dragged on for ages. Unlike Sanchez, he wasn't dropped, but the club kept feeding the press stories about not being able to afford his wages despite no official offer being made or number discussed. PHW coming out and saying we can’t afford the sort of wages City can pay. Remember? Sounds very similar to what Sir Chip has recently said about our contract rebels. The statement being that we’re prepared to lose both players. Wenger even said that he didn’t think it was right to offer a player close to 30 a massive contract when he’s most likely to lose form and play less in the final years of his deal. We had no intention of offering RVP a deal and were trying to attract bids from other clubs but only Utd and Juve were interested.
Song was a funny case as well. Contact talks were due and the club kept knocking him back. When they decided to sell him to Barca, a story leaks that he was disruptive in training.How classy of us! Since when was he disruptive and since when did we leak shit like that to the press? The fans were being handled. Under the Stan and Ivan regime, PR is everything and the last thing they want is for us to look like a selling club. They saw the reaction from the fans when we sold Nasri and Cesc. I still firmly believe it was Gazidis and his cronies doing most of the leg work for the transfer deadline day panic. He’s more in tune with the sentiment of the fans but still a devious shit.
It’s all well and good everyone now saying Sanchez can do better but the day he makes a statement about wanting out and trying to force a move or if he wants to play for one of our rivals…that’s when the narrative shifts. Happens all the time. With RVP, he’s acted like a complete shite since leaving but people on here forget what they were saying before he left and how he ended up at Utd. The club sold him and were unwilling to offer him a massive contract. But he wasn’t even asking for more money. He wanted to know about the players we were signing and our ‘sporting ambition’. Sound familiar again? Remember the day Henry questioned Wenger in the same way and dropped for the North London Derby after? Question Wenger’s tactics or challenge his authority and he gets defensive and agitated. In fact, it comes across as petty and illogical. You only have to watch his interviews when challenged to see how rattled he gets.
That's not the argument at all. The attitude of the player is irrelevant. That's not the focus because I'm not denying that these guys can be difficult. We're looking at how the manager reacts when having to handle difficult players and circumstances. It's not a case of them being dropped because they're underperforming and stinking it up on the pitch. It's boardroom level politics bleeding on to the pitch.
Totally agree, the club have been very clever, always shifting the blame away from themselves and onto the players who left, what's wrong with a top player questioning your ambition when you come 4th every season, nothing because 4th place is pathetic target no top club should settle for, no top player in their right minds will want to waste his career just for 4th, it seems Wenger and co think they should be grateful for it however.I've been saying the same thing about RVP and Song for ages in the way the club tried to smear their reputation. It’s not hindsight for me. For RVP, I'm talking before the 'little boy' in him spoke and before he started celebrating goals against us like a cunt.
RVP's contract talks dragged on for ages. Unlike Sanchez, he wasn't dropped, but the club kept feeding the press stories about not being able to afford his wages despite no official offer being made or number discussed. PHW coming out and saying we can’t afford the sort of wages City can pay. Remember? Sounds very similar to what Sir Chip has recently said about our contract rebels. The statement being that we’re prepared to lose both players. Wenger even said that he didn’t think it was right to offer a player close to 30 a massive contract when he’s most likely to lose form and play less in the final years of his deal. We had no intention of offering RVP a deal and were trying to attract bids from other clubs but only Utd and Juve were interested.
Song was a funny case as well. Contact talks were due and the club kept knocking him back. When they decided to sell him to Barca, a story leaks that he was disruptive in training.
It’s all well and good everyone now saying Sanchez can do better but the day he makes a statement about wanting out and trying to force a move or if he wants to play for one of our rivals…that’s when the narrative shifts. Happens all the time. With RVP, he’s acted like a complete shite since leaving but people on here forget what they were saying before he left and how he ended up at Utd. The club sold him and were unwilling to offer him a massive contract. But he wasn’t even asking for more money. He wanted to know about the players we were signing and our ‘sporting ambition’. Sound familiar again? Remember the day Henry questioned Wenger in the same way and dropped for the North London Derby after? Question Wenger’s tactics or challenge his authority and he gets defensive and agitated. In fact, it comes across as petty and illogical. You only have to watch his interviews when challenged to see how rattled he gets.
We're set to lose yet another one of our star players, how many times is it now, we know we've got the money now and still it looks like it's going to continue to happen. Other clubs are catching up and will overtake us soon, we've wasted the advantage of the stadium and have got nowhere with it, the only people to benefit are basically the people at the top. There's one constant throughout this whole process, Wenger, he's overseen and encouraged this change in the club and it's help attract the people we have in charge at the moment because they all wanted their share of the honey pot.
I partly agree, however I don't believe a player should ever question a manager. We call Wenger a dictator, as far as the players are concerned that's exactly what a manager should be. The problem is a) that so many players have legitimate cause to question the manager b) no-one else in the club infrastructure seems willing or able to.I've been saying the same thing about RVP and Song for ages in the way the club tried to smear their reputation. It’s not hindsight for me. For RVP, I'm talking before the 'little boy' in him spoke and before he started celebrating goals against us like a cunt.
RVP's contract talks dragged on for ages. Unlike Sanchez, he wasn't dropped, but the club kept feeding the press stories about not being able to afford his wages despite no official offer being made or number discussed. PHW coming out and saying we can’t afford the sort of wages City can pay. Remember? Sounds very similar to what Sir Chip has recently said about our contract rebels. The statement being that we’re prepared to lose both players. Wenger even said that he didn’t think it was right to offer a player close to 30 a massive contract when he’s most likely to lose form and play less in the final years of his deal. We had no intention of offering RVP a deal and were trying to attract bids from other clubs but only Utd and Juve were interested.
Song was a funny case as well. Contact talks were due and the club kept knocking him back. When they decided to sell him to Barca, a story leaks that he was disruptive in training.
It’s all well and good everyone now saying Sanchez can do better but the day he makes a statement about wanting out and trying to force a move or if he wants to play for one of our rivals…that’s when the narrative shifts. Happens all the time. With RVP, he’s acted like a complete shite since leaving but people on here forget what they were saying before he left and how he ended up at Utd. The club sold him and were unwilling to offer him a massive contract. But he wasn’t even asking for more money. He wanted to know about the players we were signing and our ‘sporting ambition’. Sound familiar again? Remember the day Henry questioned Wenger in the same way and dropped for the North London Derby after? Question Wenger’s tactics or challenge his authority and he gets defensive and agitated. In fact, it comes across as petty and illogical. You only have to watch his interviews when challenged to see how rattled he gets.
Imagine if you will we had a competent manager in and he made a tactical instruction of his players that came out of left field and the players question it, it becomes anarchy.
It has taken fans time to shift from a mindset where we all thought we were engaged in a sport and trying to win to a realisation that the people at the top of the club are not working in the best interests of the club. We were all here thinking about results and team selections and substitutions and tactics and all the other stuff that is related to, you know, football. Behind the scenes the club was being transformed from a football focused operation to a vehicle for a small group of individuals to benefit personally. There was no immediate reason to be cynical of every move the executives made, the older fans were used to a traditional and tribal culture while the newer fans were in the unfortunate position of never having known anything but Wenger - and Wenger was still considered a winner bravely suffering the hardship of a stadium move that (perhaps naively) most fans thought was taking place for the good of the club.
Time has unfolded and a different and very nasty picture has emerged. In the case of RvC I can recall many fans wondering why the hell he'd ever want to leave, he was so integral to the club, he'd developed his career here, he'd come off the back of a great season, we were still in that "any day now" mode where the finances were expected to be opened up and we'd be adding to talent like his, not seeing it walk out the door. But it was one of the first big indicators of something being rotten at the club. I would have been much easier for players on the inside to detect this rot. It's not surprising the fans, increasingly on the outside, didn't detect the warning signs as early.
Nobody wants to be entirely cynical, do they? Unfortunately it turns out that complete cynicism is the most appropriate response to what's going on at Arsenal and within football in general these days. RvC lost his head and started spouting off, he played straight into their hands and ended up crucified. And that was still the right call by the fans because even though football tradition has pretty much died you still don't go and give a major rival a leg-up. Then again, you don't sell your star player to a major rival either, not if you genuinely have ambition. So that was a giveaway and plenty of fans did pick up on that one.
But yes, the banners should have been out and the vitriol should have been flowing at that stage. Half a decade on and here we are, in the same shitty position as back then. Watching our best players walk away and waiting for the club to show an ounce of ambition. A missed opportunity for the fans to act but what we have seen in football is unprecedented and has been dripped slowly into being. Fool me once and, unless I'm called Ty, I won't be fooled again. At least I hope so, but I still get the impression the majority of fans still really don't get it.
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The stadium move has been far from wasted. Is it 3 ranches that have been mortgaged on the back of it? And look at Wenger, it bought him how many years? Plus all that extra revenue, the increased share price.
Provided you don't mention football, it has been a roaring success.
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