Match Reaction vs Bayern Munich (home)

[Letters]

I just want to go into big games not knowing what the outcome is, having my palms sweaty before the game because it could go either way. I am sick of knowing almost with 100% certainty how our games against the big guys are going to be like. There have been a few outliers like the win against Barcelona at home, against City away and Chelsea this season which does make me sit up and take notice but you know that these victories are more anomalies than the norm.

Frankly, I just want to get excited about the club again.

Predictability is the death of sport and there is no interest when it's become so certain we'll fail.
If I'm guilty of anything it's holding out hope longer than many of you that maybe, just maybe, things will be different this year.
Without that hope then...oh, what's the point?

And actually after 15 games we were doing OK, we'd only lost once - on the opening day, admittedly - and we'd beaten Chelsea at home.
There were some warning signs, drawing with Spurs and home and Utd away, and we were pretty fortunate in the latter by all accounts. But overall it was so far so good at that point. It was after that the wheels fell off and now we're heading to the same inevitable conclusion, scrambling around desperately trying to finish above Spurs and in the top 4 and round and round we go.

I think Wenger did well enough in the years where we couldn't compete financially. Could have done better, maybe should have done at times. Certainly could have done a lot worse. But the money is there now, there's no excuse not to be competing with the very best. We aren't.
I hope he goes at the end of this season when he could still do so with some respectability and I think most fans will come to appreciate his legacy - there will be a few Zim's who will stubbornly refuse to but they'll be the minority.

I fear though that like a gambler desperately going on and on to try and recoup his losses he'll stay on and it will all get quite nasty. Shame really.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You specifically said:



By this I assume you mean the players we have, I don't agree with this at all to be honest, players want to see top players come in to give them more chance of winning big trophies and they also realise that they aren't at the same level as the very best.

I think Sanchez and Ozil would think great a top player coming in, we have a better chance of trophies, I think they'd be happy about it. As for money, well if they are delivering world beating performances regularly you pay up because they are that good, like other clubs do.

No I'm not, I'm just pointing out it's ridiculous to think all other players will want massive wages because your best players who are the most important part of your team get paid more, this applies to any club, I was simply giving you examples. Noone else has any issue with it so I don't see why we would be the exception, it's basically one of those stupid Wenger ideas.

In addition, if you're winning trophies, it tends to be easier to keep players, it's when you're not it becomes harder.

No but the point is you can agree or disagree with the current wage bill in connection to the quality of the squad, but currently it is already at the level almost of Man United and Man City.....if we kept Sanchez and Ozil with a 60/70 million signing we either have to downsize our squad in number or have a financially unsustainable wage bill.

Being financially unsustainable doesn't apply to Chelsea or Man City but it does to us, whether we like it or not.

Plus also i stated we have the money in reserve to maybe spend on an Aubemeyang or Griezmann as a one off, Chelsea, United and City can do it every season

[Power n Glory]

I'll be honest and say that's typical Wenger school of thinking, he's got people convinced their won't be harmony if there's a big pay disparity, that's his policy and a damn stupid one if you ask me (it's hindered us massively over the years), he paid the likes of Bendtner, Denilson etc much more than they were worth because of this.

Do Barca say to Messi we can't pay you more because other players will want the same, do Real say this to Ronaldo? No better players command better wages because they are more talented and more desirable ad perhaps more important to the team, that's always been the case and I don't believe for one minute is causes issues (except for players who think they are better than they are in which case get rid).

Some of these ideas Wenger has literally pulled out of the sky seem to have become ingrained in the clubs thinking now, this is what I mean when I say Wenger will leave this club not in a great state, he's changed this club in so many ways and it's deeply ingrained in it's culture now and changing it will be very hard, any new manager will find it much harder than normal because of all this, which is why he'll need to be given plenty of time.

Totally agree and it's almost like it's indoctrinated into everyone's thinking.

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/en...-club-by-club/

If the above numbers are true, we're talking about a £25m difference between us and the top spenders.

[Marc Overmars]

Maybe people are being unrealistic about spending power in other threads, but that wasn’t the point to the original conversation. Anyone linking how much Bayern spend on their team compared to ours do so in order to debunk Wenger’s excuses about why we fail. Selassie’s original post highlights the complete difference in mentality Bayern have to what we have here at Arsenal. We are a bigger club. Not the biggest but years of Wenger talking down our European record before he arrived and the excuses about finances just creates a bigger mental monster where we aim lower than what we should.

Bro, did you say we are a bigger club than Bayern Munich?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Totally agree and it's almost like it's indoctrinated into everyone's thinking.

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/en...-club-by-club/

If the above numbers are true, we're talking about a £25m difference between us and the top spenders.

I tend to think people don't have an argument if they say if you don't agree with me you are indoctrinated/brain washed

It's basic maths

I know our wage bill is incredibly high, but just imagine you divested the squad of every player you thought wasn't performing or we couldn't get anything out of....first of all there is the trouble offloading them because of their wages, and even if you can anyone you bring in who is going to be better will cost more in transfer fees and wages.

If we keep the squad and just top it up with top quality than we will end up having a giant wage bill one that even threatens to surpass that of United, City and Chelsea, the difference is they can afford to whack these type of players in reserve we can't.

Basically the tv deal has only had the negative effects you get from quantative easing.....inflation.

[Power n Glory]

Yes and this segways into the fact that some fans believe Wenger's obfuscations caused the quote "some people think we are a smaller club than we are"

and i decided to respond by stating that equally some fans believe we are bigger than we are. A club's stature especially in this day and age is defined by it's spending power.

And then the conversation went more into the realms of spending, i know you get terribly disturbed and troubled by the tangential nature of football forums but try not to let it get to you too much

I'm quite calm but I'm not sure why you're so hostile. The fact that you resorted to that little 'go fuck yourself' outburst suggest you're losing your cool a bit. It doesn't have to go down that route.

and i decided to respond by stating that equally some fans believe we are bigger than we are. A club's stature especially in this day and age is defined by it's spending power.

That's your definition. The original conversation wasn't being framed around finances and even if we're going off that basis, we're the 7th richest according to reports and above the current league leaders and definitely above Leicester City. There isn't a huge golf between us and our rivals and there are teams across Europe working with a lot less that are more progressive in their leagues and CL compared to us.

Constantly jumping back to the money argument in the same way Wenger does proves MM's point about having a small club mentality.

[Özim]

No but the point is you can agree or disagree with the current wage bill in connection to the quality of the squad, but currently it is already at the level almost of Man United and Man City.....if we kept Sanchez and Ozil with a 60/70 million signing we either have to downsize our squad in number or have a financially unsustainable wage bill.

Being financially unsustainable doesn't apply to Chelsea or Man City but it does to us, whether we like it or not.

Plus also i stated we have the money in reserve to maybe spend on an Aubemeyang or Griezmann as a one off, Chelsea, United and City can do it every season

I think our squad is overpaid for the quality, but that's because Wenger spends on the wrong players, our squad is inbalanced anyway, I'd much rather have a smaller squad with better players.

Not strictly true, we're owned by two billionairs, trouble is one of them at least is in it for the profit and nothing else, but we can afford to be like Chelsea and all the other clubs, Usmanov is actually richer than Abrahmovic but he can't get a look in.

Again though that's our choice, but Chelsea and co haven't been spending as much as before, the problem is not the money IMO, it's who we sign, every summer we tend to leave it late and end up with relative nobodies when better players were available at prices we can afford before that, that's our fault not the fact Chelsea and City can spend.

[Özim]

Totally agree and it's almost like it's indoctrinated into everyone's thinking.

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/en...-club-by-club/

If the above numbers are true, we're talking about a £25m difference between us and the top spenders.

Wenger has in a way brainwashed people into his way of thinking, it's become the only way, the only thing we can do, trouble is other clubs don't follow those rules at all.

[Power n Glory]

Bro, did you say we are a bigger club than Bayern Munich?

No, I'm just agreeing with the statement that we're a bigger club than what most people think.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The go fuck your self was to save time, the Question "why are you talking about this?" only befits a response of "because I am go fuck yourself"
You don't agree with my definition of what constitutes a big club, you don't have to but you're the one in confusion as to why the subject became about money. Now whilst I don't Particularly care about your confusion I've doing you the favour of saying how it became about money, that you don't think the discussion should be about money is irrelevant.

But you did in fairness ask nicely, despite my way of shortening what was likely to become tiresome by telling you to go fuck yourself

It's not hostile, it's do we have to do this again it's tedious