Match Reaction vs Bayern Munich (home)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You are probably right regarding the probability of the dopers sharing title wins in the future. The thing is I don't think anyone is demanding titles, I think people just want to see us improve, to at least properly challenge for the title once in a while, to not collapse domestically and in europe at the same point in the season every year.

We just need change now, a new approach. We need to see flexibility and a sense of excitement in the way the football team is run. I personally believe an ambitious driven manager can go some way towards giving us that.

And I totally agree, I just wonder if everyone is quite so realistic

[Niall_Quinn]

But realistically it's not going anywhere, it's about working with what money we can spend not money we think we should spend.

Again that money has not been spent well, bloated wage bill considering how many non performers we have in the side.

But i'm prepared to make a bet with anyone here that if Wenger goes this season, the next ten seasons onwards 80% at the minimum of the titles will be won by Chelsea, United or City.

I think anyone who bets 10 years into the future in this football environment is a hard core gambler who likes big risks. Look at how the game has changed in the last 10 years. Any assumption it will plough on in the same way as we see it now is wishful thinking. More likely in 10 years we'll be watching Europe's 32 "elite" clubs competing in their own league and national football will have been reduced to a Sunday pastime. 2019 seems to be the date the top clubs have rallied around to start putting this nightmare vision in place and Arsenal are form believers and locked in. What a surprise. Our ambition is Top 4 for ever and ever, amen. We'll never have to qualify again. And we'll never have to win again because we'll always be in it. We shouldn't even be comparing ourselves to the chavs and gypos, we aren't in the same business as them. Until our whole attitude changes as a club then the real reason we won't be competing is because our agenda and focus is elsewhere. You've heard Wenger. Let those grubby money clubs compete. They'll never win the Moral Superiority Cup like we have the last 13 seasons.

We literally have a manager who has created imaginary trophies to win because the club don't have an interest in winning the real trophies. And half the fans have celebrated! Wenger is striding through the streets buck naked and Chris and Ty are admiring his new threads.

[Power n Glory]

Don't know why we didn't sign Mikhytarian, possibly because Wenger thought we had enough attacking midfielders, however is he the quality of an Aubemeyang or a Griezmann who can also play wide? No he's not and they would cost twice as much

By August our priority was a centre back, a defensive midfielder and a striker

When you have a transfer budget that incorporates wages as well as the transfer fee, it's a bit more difficult to say this player is good value player I'll have that. Does that excuse Wenger for dithering and signing Lucas and Mustafi as panic signings no.

Would Kante have joined us over Chelsea, they'd simply be able to outbid us on wages.

Of course when Mahrez and Vardy decide they'd rather stay at Leicester than come to us you know you have a problem.

I’ve said this before but the cost of strikers have gone up because there aren’t that many world class strikers around that have records of putting 30+ goals away a season. Prices being touted around for Griezmann and what Higuin went for can’t be seen as the norm for every position. For strikers, you have to be prepared to take a risk on a kid with raw talent. Gabriel Jesus went for around £30m, Gabriel Barbosa went for £25m and now we’re hearing about Wenger spotting Mbappe before anyone else.

We were linked with Griezmann before he went to Atleitico. He cost them £25m but we instead went for Welbeck (£17m). As said above, there are strikers out there we could have bought before the price tag rocketed and the same applies today but we’re taking a bigger risk because most of them are unproven.

By August our priority was a centre back, a defensive midfielder and a striker

Again, were there no players available that we couldn't have bought for a £100m?

When you have a transfer budget that incorporates wages as well as the transfer fee

And where did you get that information from? I remember some years back you made the same assumption when we signed Ozil and said all the money went on that deal. Can we stick to the facts and not make assumptions? We're only talking about transfer fees and this just reminds me of the conversations being had back when didn't have this much money to spend but fans were jumping to conclusions based of ambiguous statements from Wenger and the club.

[Power n Glory]

And I totally agree, I just wonder if everyone is quite so realistic

Everyone that's chimed in on this has said the exact same thing! Who have you spoken to that hasn't been realistic?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We're only talking about transfer fees and this just reminds me of the conversations being had back when didn't have this much money to spend but fans were jumping to conclusions based of ambiguous statements from Wenger and the club.

With the culture of Omerta at Arsenal you can only go on what's reported and what is frequently reported that the transfer budget given to Wenger incorporates both the transfer fee and the players wages....now obviously most transfer deals are paid incrementally rather than a one lump sum so that would factor in as well.

It's not about saying 100 million isn't enough to sign the players we need and Wenger clearly did botch the summer, but the point is you randomly throw Mikhytarian or Gabriel Jesus into the mix, and you could argue that if we have three defined positions we need to strengthen.....that players of that kind are secondary considerations....nice but not essential.

We have always assumed Wenger was constantly lying about previously not having the money to spend and was just reluctant to spend money, now whether we think he has spent wisely or not that myth has been totally busted.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Everyone that's chimed in on this has said the exact same thing! Who have you spoken to that hasn't been realistic?

I'm sorry were you not stating earlier that, that kind of thinking was part of the small club mentality that Wenger had indoctrinated into fans?

[Power n Glory]

I'm sorry were you not stating earlier that, that kind of thinking was part of the small club mentality that Wenger had indoctrinated into fans?

And where in that was I demanding that we win the title every season? Nobody has formed that argument and I'm unsure where that train of thought comes from.

[selassie]

I'm sorry were you not stating earlier that, that kind of thinking was part of the small club mentality that Wenger had indoctrinated into fans?

Many of us were touching on this Herb, not just Dog. I made the point of posting Bayern's response from being humbled by Barca in CL in 2009 compared it to Wenger's after our embarrassing exit to Bayern a few days ago. Wenger has defiantly stated that there is nothing wrong with the football team and we are in great shape blah blah blah.

The mentality was and is like night and day and for me, Wenger has indoctrinated a small time mentality into the Football Club, there is no two ways about that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And where in that was I demanding that we win the title every season? Nobody has formed that argument and I'm unsure where that train of thought comes from.

I'm not sure either, because i've not tried to claim that

What i've stated is that 80% minimum of the titles will still be going to chelsea, man united and man city.....that is of course without factoring in the variables that NQ has stated.

[Power n Glory]

Many of us were touching on this Herb, not just Dog. I made the point of posting Bayern's response from being humbled by Barca in CL in 2009 compared it to Wenger's after our embarrassing exit to Bayern a few days ago. Wenger has defiantly stated that there is nothing wrong with the football team and we are in great shape blah blah blah.

The mentality was and is like night and day and for me, Wenger has indoctrinated a small time mentality into the Football Club, there is no two ways about that.

Yep. It was good post and shows the stark contrast in mentality.