Wenger Referendum IV

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It should be a case of equal culpability but I don’t see that happening. We have the technical side of club and then the financial side of thing. We’re now amongst the richest clubs in the world. Top 5. Who takes most of the credit for where we stand as club today financially? Wenger is given more credit for that than anyone else.

On the technical side, Wenger has drawn the line by saying he has overall control and is reluctant to change that. A ‘you do your job but don’t tell me how to do mine’ sort of stance. But it’s Gazidis that’s taken more of the blame for the technical side. We have a flawed set up where it looks like the man with the most footballing knowledge is Wenger. We need more experts and fresh blood in the set up but we have a manger that has the final say on the staff and is often reluctant to change. Has Gazidis been able to push him to make changes? I’d say yes but not far enough.

After years of injuries and topping the table for most injured, who was it that appointed the best in the business, Shad Forsythe, to join our medical staff? It was Gazidis. It was an ongoing problem and despite having to work with it day in day out, we heard piss poor conclusions from Wenger about why the players were constantly out injured and it got to the point where it couldn’t be left with Wenger to fix. We needed outside and not excuses about pitches. The same goes for our Youth Acadmey and Jonker. Gazidis made that appointment but hasn’t ended well because Jonker has moved on since being unable to change the culture. The fact that he was blocked from being able to appoint Henry speaks volumes. Freddie Ljunberg moved on with Jonker! How the heck is that happening when he’s Arsenal?

Need I mention the sponsorship deals and having to push for pre season tours that extend the brand? This stuff hasn’t happened over night and I’m guessing Wenger has dug his heels in for lot of it. But ultimately, it makes no difference if we’re not doing anything to change the first team set up. We’ve seen subtle and slow changes around the club except in one area. It’s definitely not just PR but we’ve gotten worse. Sites like Arseblog have to wake up and smell the coffee. Stop the bullshit and deflecting the attention away from Wenger.

I think Arseblog takes the same view that I do, that Wenger is merely an employee at the end of the day. Whatever we say about the omnipresent overlord Stan Kroenke.....there can be no doubt that Wenger doesn't own the club therefore whatever he does, however he behaves.....someone is responsible for him being allowed to get away with it.

It's not unreasonable to ask what kind of Chief Executive has no control over their employee, which leaves us with two possible answers 1) He has been content to take a back seats to proceedings - yes he brought in Shad Forsythe and Wim Jonker but they've been largely unused to the point where Jonker has joined Wolfsburg. It could be that he deems fit only to step in when he thinks the shit is hitting the fan to the point where he has to be seen to act (as i remember Jonker was brought in before Wenger signed his contract extension)

2) He is essentially powerless because Wenger routinely bypasses him and goes direct to Kroenke, well i don't know about you but if i was chomping at the bit to do my job to the fullest but routinely had my hands tied, i don't care how good the money is if I thought I was good enough i would move on. Frankly i tend to feel as much as Kroenke does not want to get rid of Wenger, he takes a very laisse faire approach to any sporting decisions because he is essentially a property magnate and is only concerned with which affects the value of his assets.

Don't get me wrong, if Gazidis is as good as his word and he pushes through the changes we want to see than that's unequivocally good. But the best thing you can say about him still is that he's reactive rather than proactive

[Power n Glory]

I think Arseblog takes the same view that I do, that Wenger is merely an employee at the end of the day. Whatever we say about the omnipresent overlord Stan Kroenke.....there can be no doubt that Wenger doesn't own the club therefore whatever he does, however he behaves.....someone is responsible for him being allowed to get away with it.

It's not unreasonable to ask what kind of Chief Executive has no control over their employee, which leaves us with two possible answers 1) He has been content to take a back seats to proceedings - yes he brought in Shad Forsythe and Wim Jonker but they've been largely unused to the point where Jonker has joined Wolfsburg. It could be that he deems fit only to step in when he thinks the shit is hitting the fan to the point where he has to be seen to act (as i remember Jonker was brought in before Wenger signed his contract extension)

2) He is essentially powerless because Wenger routinely bypasses him and goes direct to Kroenke, well i don't know about you but if i was chomping at the bit to do my job to the fullest but routinely had my hands tied, i don't care how good the money is if I thought I was good enough i would move on. Frankly i tend to feel as much as Kroenke does not want to get rid of Wenger, he takes a very laisse faire approach to any sporting decisions because he is essentially a property magnate and is only concerned with which affects the value of his assets.

Don't get me wrong, if Gazidis is as good as his word and he pushes through the changes we want to see than that's unequivocally good. But the best thing you can say about him still is that he's reactive rather than proactive

You guys aren’t paying attention if that’s your assessment. No need to even mention Stan. We already know his position and how much he admires Wenger. The focus is on Ivan and let’s also remember that Wenger hired his own boss.

If Ivan were happily taking a back seat, we wouldn’t be amongst the richest clubs in the world. That’s not the sort of plan you can ramble up overnight as some sort of PR cover story. When taking this job, knowing our situation with the new stadium, the plan was to build a self-sustaining club that can compete with our rivals. I’d say we’ve stepped up notch in terms of finances and brand but it’s a different story on the pitch. As a CEO, Ivan should be asking Wenger what he needs from the club to win the league. Wenger has often said that lack of resources and injuries have stopped us winning the league. He can’t use the money excuse anymore and we’ve invested in our medical staff and equipment to help with the injuries. There aren’t many excuses left or directions to point now.

Last season we should have won the league. Wenger, with all his usual arrogance, decided to only sign one outfield player in the summer and it backfired in spectacular fashion. Keep in mind his usual bluster about ‘buying not being the only answer’. That’s the message he was putting out. Fast forward, he’s now the squad needs strengthening and that comes off the back of us blowing money on Xhaka, Mustafi and Perez. He’s now saying we need to improve our scouting network and could have signed Griezemann, Kante and Mbappe earlier if we acted quicker. Are you buying any of that? He’ll continue this song and dance forever and from the sounds of it, Ivan’s not buying the bullshit but doesn’t have the power or backing to fire him.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nothing has really changed in terms of the finances. We've been behind the pace again. You don't see us up there seriously competing for players the big clubs want. We have more money, but then again so does everyone. I'd say the board has underperformed in terms of football investment and, as always, over performed in terms of what really matters to them - the underlying worth of the club. Their focus is on themselves, not on the club.

[Power n Glory]

Nothing has really changed in terms of the finances. We've been behind the pace again. You don't see us up there seriously competing for players the big clubs want. We have more money, but then again so does everyone. I'd say the board has underperformed in terms of football investment and, as always, over performed in terms of what really matters to them - the underlying worth of the club. Their focus is on themselves, not on the club.

You falling for the okie doke? Wenger is in the press saying we could have brought Kante and Griezmann earlier. How much have we spent this summer and how much did both players sell for recently?

It's Wenger's decision not to spend on those players. Resources aren't the problem.

[Globalgunner]

Without having to repeat what everyone probably knows already. Wenger is as deluded as the muppet currently in the White House. He is so full of himself he deliberately avoids buying top named players. Most likely he feels buying these players will make it less about him and more down to the players when we win things. He prefers to show to those watching that he can do with 2nd grade players what other clubs are doing with top shelf stars. Thats why he loves to brag about the players he never signed. "I could have bought him but xyz happened" However see what we have achieved with Giroud and Coquelin. 2 maybe 3 FA cups in 3 years.

[Niall_Quinn]

You falling for the okie doke? Wenger is in the press saying we could have brought Kante and Griezmann earlier. How much have we spent this summer and how much did both players sell for recently?

It's Wenger's decision not to spend on those players. Resources aren't the problem.

I'm saying, this club would rather have a strong balance sheet than a strong team sheet. That has been the case for a long time. Only one area where we are world beaters - return on investment.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You guys aren’t paying attention if that’s your assessment. No need to even mention Stan. We already know his position and how much he admires Wenger. The focus is on Ivan and let’s also remember that Wenger hired his own boss.

If Ivan were happily taking a back seat, we wouldn’t be amongst the richest clubs in the world. That’s not the sort of plan you can ramble up overnight as some sort of PR cover story. When taking this job, knowing our situation with the new stadium, the plan was to build a self-sustaining club that can compete with our rivals. I’d say we’ve stepped up notch in terms of finances and brand but it’s a different story on the pitch. As a CEO, Ivan should be asking Wenger what he needs from the club to win the league. Wenger has often said that lack of resources and injuries have stopped us winning the league. He can’t use the money excuse anymore and we’ve invested in our medical staff and equipment to help with the injuries. There aren’t many excuses left or directions to point now.

Last season we should have won the league. Wenger, with all his usual arrogance, decided to only sign one outfield player in the summer and it backfired in spectacular fashion. Keep in mind his usual bluster about ‘buying not being the only answer’. That’s the message he was putting out. Fast forward, he’s now the squad needs strengthening and that comes off the back of us blowing money on Xhaka, Mustafi and Perez. He’s now saying we need to improve our scouting network and could have signed Griezemann, Kante and Mbappe earlier if we acted quicker. Are you buying any of that? He’ll continue this song and dance forever and from the sounds of it, Ivan’s not buying the bullshit but doesn’t have the power or backing to fire him.

We were one of the richest clubs in the world before Ivan Gazidis joined us.

Qualifying for the champions league season upon season on relatively low expenditure, high ticket prices (especially for season tickets) has maximised the clubs cash flow. Now I don't think any CEO could have made us as big as the size of Man United and Real Madrid, but their respective kit sponsorship with Addidas dwarves ours with Puma by some way and Addidas flatly turned us down in terms of what we were asking for, which is due to our lack of success on the field.

So you have a point there where lack of success on the field is hindering us from making more money off the field, so again if he is a CEO letting Wenger have carte Blanche shows either complacency or weakness on his part.

Either way you look at it, he is Wengers boss if you are having to accept you have no power over him, you shouldn't be at the club not if you are a man of ambition anyway.

[Power n Glory]

We were one of the richest clubs in the world before Ivan Gazidis joined us.

Qualifying for the champions league season upon season on relatively low expenditure, high ticket prices (especially for season tickets) has maximised the clubs cash flow. Now I don't think any CEO could have made us as big as the size of Man United and Real Madrid, but their respective kit sponsorship with Addidas dwarves ours with Puma by some way and Addidas flatly turned us down in terms of what we were asking for, which is due to our lack of success on the field.

So you have a point there where lack of success on the field is hindering us from making more money off the field, so again if he is a CEO letting Wenger have carte Blanche shows either complacency or weakness on his part.

Either way you look at it, he is Wengers boss if you are having to accept you have no power over him, you shouldn't be at the club not if you are a man of ambition anyway.

That's a poor argument. You can't apply a similar argument I've made about Wenger's ambition just because Gazidis has no power over Wenger. His role as a CEO isn't to exert power of Wenger just for his ego. He was appointed to help grow the club as a business so we have the resources to compete at the top level. Also, let's put things into perspective, at which other club have you heard the CEO giving the manager their marching orders?

Also, the sponsorship deals were good for what they were at the time and what has enabled us to buy Ozil, Sanchez and Xhaka. Since the sponsorship deals, we've broken our transfer record and can comfortably match that record again and again. And of course Man Utd and Real Madrid's sponsorship deals are going to dwarf ours. You're giving examples of two of the most successful clubs in the history of football. Some perspective is needed here.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's a poor argument. You can't apply a similar argument I've made about Wenger's ambition just because Gazidis has no power over Wenger. His role as a CEO isn't to exert power of Wenger just for his ego. He was appointed to help grow the club as a business so we have the resources to compete at the top level. Also, let's put things into perspective, at which other club have you heard the CEO giving the manager their marching orders?

Also, the sponsorship deals were good for what they were at the time and what has enabled us to buy Ozil, Sanchez and Xhaka. Since the sponsorship deals, we've broken our transfer record and can comfortably match that record again and again. And of course Man Utd and Real Madrid's sponsorship deals are going to dwarf ours. You're giving examples of two of the most successful clubs in the history of football. Some perspective is needed here.

Its not about ego it's about asserting influence over a man we both agree has too much control of things from a footballing perspective.
We talk about the influence Dein was able to exert over Wenger and largely as well as maximising profits for the club Gazidis' role is meant to be that of a leader answerable only to a board of directors (or more likely Majority share holder).

Now either Gazidis cannot keep Wenger under control or he has largely been content to give him all that control.

Like I say if his attempt to Make Wenger work with a director of football is more than just words, than fair enough I personally think he's allowed the situation to get to the point of unsustainability but yes at least doing something about it now.

But we will know what kind of man he is if nothing changes and he is still here next season.

[Power n Glory]

Its not about ego it's about asserting influence over a man we both agree has too much control of things from a footballing perspective.
We talk about the influence Dein was able to exert over Wenger and largely as well as maximising profits for the club Gazidis' role is meant to be that of a leader answerable only to a board of directors (or more likely Majority share holder).

Now either Gazidis cannot keep Wenger under control or he has largely been content to give him all that control.

Like I say if his attempt to Make Wenger work with a director of football is more than just words, than fair enough I personally think he's allowed the situation to get to the point of unsustainability but yes at least doing something about it now.

But we will know what kind of man he is if nothing changes and he is still here next season.

You know this already.

Or I assumed you did. It’s been discussed on here plenty of times. Wenger hired his own boss. Gazidis may have the same title as David Dein but he didn’t inherit the same sort of stature. Dein hired Wenger. Dein was a shareholder of the club so the dynamic was totally different. He was an owner as well as some actively involved with the day to day running.

Now either Gazidis cannot keep Wenger under control or he has largely been content to give him all that control.

For you to draw that sort of conclusion, you’d have to understand the role of a Chief Executive and what was agreed when he was hired. Was Gazidis given the power to fire Wenger? Does it sound like he has the authority to? In most football set ups I’ve seen where a club has a majority owner, the hiring and firing are done by the owner.