And yet, last time he signed a new contract you were supportiveOriginally Posted by Niall_Quinn
And now you're lying about your opinions and mine. Low energy. Sad.
And yet, last time he signed a new contract you were supportive
And now you're lying about your opinions and mine. Low energy. Sad.
I think I have been too patient with Wenger. But that doesn't mean that we can now back-date our views and be all revisionist about what Wenger did for us back in the day.Give it up. You're having resort back to the old 606 board to drag up ancient history.Does it bother you that much? You have been wrong for a very long time. Accept it.
As I said at more length elsewhere, Wenger's time with us broadly fails into 3 phases
1) Revolutionary who completely changed the culture of the club and raised us to a level I never thought I'd see Arsenal play at
2) Steadying of the ship where finances were hampering us somewhat during the stadium move and the billionaires had their biggest impact
3) Recent years where the money has been available to compete but the game has somewhat overtaken Wenger while he has stayed still and is increasingly looking like he can't compete at the very top level.
Like any manager he has strengths and weaknesses, those strengths in the early days revolutionised the club and formed the basis for the global club we now are - and have to be if we want to compete, and please don't anyone pull Leicester out their arse, it was amazing what they did but it was clearly a one off as last season showed. If you think 5th and the FA Cup was a car crash of a season then you have Wenger to thank for that, before he joined that would have been a very acceptable season. We expect better things now, we have the resources to expect that and that is largely down to Wenger. But his weaknesses were always evident, looking back. It's hard to see that when you're winning trophies left, right and centre and the quality of football in Europe but the failures in the CL, the failure to retain the title. Those are because of the failings which have always been there. And his strengths no longer help him in a game where now every club knows the worldwide game, every club has top training methods, every club has a good manager rather than a GHEL. Wenger can no longer compete in the modern game but that doesn't erase what he did in the past.
The "ancient history" was to demonstrate that Zim is a whiner and has always been a whiner. If you look at that thread pretty much everyone was telling him to STFU. He will always exaggerate, always go to the extreme. Now he's smugly saying "told you so"
You guys can't talk about 'nuance' and 'over simplification' in Zim's posts if you're only reacting to one or two click bait lines from a post and ignoring context.
Gilberto was a good player with Vieria in a 4-4-2. That combination worked. With Cesc in a 4-4-2, he was terrible. The system was terrible. Can anyone deny that? It took a while for Wenger to figure out that he can't play those two players together in a 4-4-2. We were getting bullied and overrun. Gilberto wasn't a bulldozing all action DM and Cesc was a lightweight on defence that needed protecting.
In today's squad, it would be like trying to play Ozil and Xhaka in a 4-4-2. Even when changing to a 4-5-1 and the Gilberto/Cesc combo starts working better, he'd start to make odd choices, like playing Cesc on the wing, Eboue on the wing, Senderos as right back, Diaby on the wing....bench Gilberto all together and move Cesc to playing as a number 10 and put players behind Cesc that don't have the skill to recycle the ball effectively....hence, the birth of Tip Tap football.
All hallmarks to the sort of problems we see today. Back then, we used to blame the players and the Board because we thought Wenger was being forced to make odd decisions because of money restrictions. So early criticism of Wenger would often get waved away. It was true to extent because we couldn't spend what our rivals spent. But there were obvious flaws in Wenger's tactical thinking back then and it's clear now that the problem is the way he thinks and sees the game. I can't fault Zim for spotting that early. A lot of his earlier gripes were about team selection and the sort of performances we're getting from certain players and our transfer policy.
This the the problem. Key points in bold. You say Wenger has always had these flaws when looking back. It was hard for you to see when we were winning. So why continue to hammer away at another poster because he's always seen the flaws and never been afraid to voice them? Why call it revisionism if you're now looking back and seeing the flaws but couldn't see them back then?I think I have been too patient with Wenger. But that doesn't mean that we can now back-date our views and be all revisionist about what Wenger did for us back in the day.
As I said at more length elsewhere, Wenger's time with us broadly fails into 3 phases
1) Revolutionary who completely changed the culture of the club and raised us to a level I never thought I'd see Arsenal play at
2) Steadying of the ship where finances were hampering us somewhat during the stadium move and the billionaires had their biggest impact
3) Recent years where the money has been available to compete but the game has somewhat overtaken Wenger while he has stayed still and is increasingly looking like he can't compete at the very top level.
Like any manager he has strengths and weaknesses, those strengths in the early days revolutionised the club and formed the basis for the global club we now are - and have to be if we want to compete, and please don't anyone pull Leicester out their arse, it was amazing what they did but it was clearly a one off as last season showed. If you think 5th and the FA Cup was a car crash of a season then you have Wenger to thank for that, before he joined that would have been a very acceptable season. We expect better things now, we have the resources to expect that and that is largely down to Wenger. But his weaknesses were always evident, looking back. It's hard to see that when you're winning trophies left, right and centre and the quality of football in Europe but the failures in the CL, the failure to retain the title. Those are because of the failings which have always been there. And his strengths no longer help him in a game where now every club knows the worldwide game, every club has top training methods, every club has a good manager rather than a GHEL. Wenger can no longer compete in the modern game but that doesn't erase what he did in the past.
The "ancient history" was to demonstrate that Zim is a whiner and has always been a whiner. If you look at that thread pretty much everyone was telling him to STFU. He will always exaggerate, always go to the extreme. Now he's smugly saying "told you so"
Also, it's not just a case of Zim just saying 'Wenger Out' for 10 years. If you look at that post, he's talking about inexperienced players not being ready, failing to replace ageing players, not buying experienced quality, all stuff we've agreed with and repeat today. You're mate, GP, laughs about the Gilbert comment below....
but fails to see how relevant this comment still is. I remember when Gilbert was first getting games and he looked the business. A year or two later it went downhill for him. Isn't that what happened to Jack Wilshere and Gibbs? Haven't we seen that with Iwobi and Bellerin? An explosive start but now things are starting to go sour. We're still signing inexperienced kids and none of have turned out well for us. Ox, Chambers, Jenkinson, Campbell, Walcott.....all these examples of seen before and it's still going on now. Everyone is singing Nelson's praises now but how knows what will happen with him here.He has failed to bring in quality experienced players (last summer and in January) and instead brought in more kids, we have plenty and most of the time they don;t cut it. The best kids tend to come through our ranks like Gilbert!
Again, I don't think you can accuse anyone of lacking nuance if you're only looking at debating the extreme comments. That's not a problem with this place, it's problem with you picking out a base level argument and hammering away at it for 10 years or so. It's not just Zim either. Someone can put together an intricate and sophisticated argument and you'll take the most meaningless, throw away comment from that post, quote it out of context from the body of the argument and decide to tackle that one point. That's not a problem with this place. You have plenty to choose from when it comes to an interesting debate. Heck, I still dont know why Zim triggers you so much.
If you don’t send this signature to ten people, you will become a Spurs fan.
You're such a shockingly dishonest and petty individual. If you'd have added the entire quote it would reverse the context and obliterate the point you are trying to scribble. Which is why you picked half the quote.And yet, last time he signed a new contract you were supportive
And now you're lying about your opinions and mine. Low energy. Sad.
And I didn't utter one single lie about your, what did you call them, opinions? That's ambitious. I wish somebody had the time to trawl through your posts like you are doing to others. If they categorised them into certain types of post is would be massively illustrative and incredibly embarrassing for you. The kill the messenger posts, the attack and redirect posts, the one liner wind-up efforts, and the endless, endless parrying you do for Wenger.
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In fairness I think it's always been obvious Wenger wasn't a great tactician and with the exception of the odd season here and there was never particularly proactive or successful in the transfer market.
The difference between then and now is the constant use of social media. What we liked and didn't like about him was discussed in the pub with mates.
And from what I remember. I don't think anyone was too sure about him until we clinched the first double.
Just as I remember even going back 10-11 years Zim was hardly a lone voice in criticising Wengers team selection and match tactics.
Last edited by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie; 02-09-2017 at 11:37 AM.
Word starting to come out today about how badly we fucked up the Lemar transfer. Story goes that Law and Wenger WENT ON HOLIDAY in the middle of the negotiations and left the player, his representatives and Monaco hanging in thin air. Can't confirm it yet but hopefully somebody will dig and get the full details out. Another claim is we told Alexis we'd accepted the bid from the gypos but did not tell him it was dependant on signing Lemar at the 11th hour. So Alexis was under the impression the deal was done, a team was over in Chile to finalise the deal, but we left them sitting there and never contacted them again, the window closed and that was that.
Sounds like we've managed to piss off every single club, person, player involved in both these deals. And yet we bent over and took it right up the hole from Liverpool when they came calling for Ox.
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I remember saying Wenger wasn't a great tactician 10 years ago or more and the GW mods rounding on me as if I had said something outrageous. Easy to say it's obvious now but people weren't saying it on this platform. Zim wasn't the lone voice but that doesn't matter. He's the one being singled out today and most days.
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