Match reaction - Man City

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Where’s the evidence of a gradual decline?

I think we have declined in the past year or so. The football on display in the last season or so has been consistently worse than anything in the ten years preceding that.

The legitimate issue between 2005 and 2016, is the same old. The same old defeats, the same old frailties, the same old failure to learn from mistakes.

And what is now decline is partly due to a man who will have partly degraded in his critical faculties and partly the rise of Spurs from the time they appointed Pochettino (not a single win against Pochetinnos Spurs in the league)

4th, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd

That on its own is the very model of stagnation and that’s without taking the points

If Wenger stays beyond 2019 (please no) my prediction will be instead of pivoting between 3rd and 4th, we will be pivoting between 5th and 6th.

[Letters]

You're saying there's been no gradual decline. Only an absolute weapon would think that.

Since when? As always things are not as simple as you seem to think.
Two seasons after The Invincibles we were scrabbling around trying to hang on to the top 4, two years in a row we snuck in on the last day.
The season after that we were title contenders before falling apart at the end.
Since then we've been bimbling around not really going anywhere. The football is clearly not as good to watch, in terns of results there's not been much in it. We've won a few FA Cups which has been nice but the league form has been patchy and we haven't seriously challenged for the title. There hasn't been a clear, steady decline. Apart from in entertainment value I suppose.

[Niall_Quinn]

If you know something is rotting and you just let it rot, eventually it will disintegrate. That's what's happening at this club. The facade is still good, the work of a century made it strong and built it up. What we are suffering is a yank cunt who is milking that work for all it's worth and when the signs of blight appear significant on that facade he'll sell and let somebody else do the repair work. He'll take his billion quid profit and leave a hollow, dilapidated shell. And he'll keep his willing manager in place to polish the facade and talk about culture and tradition and values as all of that culture, the tradition and every last value is consumed.

The real values of this club don't exist in some shitty boardroom stuffed with silver spoons. They exist in the history that has unfolded on the pitch over all those years. Ups and downs but always a desire to achieve where it matters most in this sport, on the pitch. This is the first time we've seen the club prioritise interests off the pitch. This is the first time we've abandoned those values Wenger is so keen to convince us are foremost, but look at the evidence. Who is getting rich and who is getting fucked over? It's quite easy to see the reality once Kroenke's and Ivan's and Wenger's chat has been endured and rightly dismissed as bullshit.

The very fact Wenger is still here tells us all we need to know about the values and the culture of this lot. They stink, like the rot they have cultivated.

If people think Kroenke will put the brakes on this decline to preserve his investment they are kidding themselves. He won't need to do that, he hasn't needed to do that. The money pouring into the game, the hysterical hype, the frenzied US style merchandising, the first batch of new fans who have never seen the game the way it ought to be and now only see the shit it has become, they don't know any better and will accept it. So what if the old fans fuck off? Plenty ready to replace them. Kroenke can let this club sink a lot lower yet and still secure his pirate treasure.

Do you see that little stain on the gleaming stadium? That's Alexis walking out the door, so he can restart his career at a club that actually places some value beyond the money in the football they play and the reason they play it. That other little crack, that's Ozil walking away. Love him or loathe him, it hasn't taken our fake resurgence long to disappear. But it bought the bastards time to squeeze another round of TV deals and sponsorship and a fresh hike in the share price. The con job is concluded.

Lacazette's glance to the heavens the last time he was subbed. Another pock mark that will rot away the exterior and cause a lump of tradition to crash on the ground.

The new Mr Arsenal, Jack Wilshere, the epitome of Project Youth. Brought in with a bucket to bail as fast as he can. Mission impossible. The guy who was going to be England captain. Sloshing around with Theo Walcott. That's what's in store at this theatre of culture and values and tradition.

In a circus where there seems no limit to the amount of money being fire-hosed into the sky, if we think we are assured top 6 just because we have a culture and a history and a tradition, as Wenger thinks, then at least we'll finally get a surprise in the midst of this boring nothingness. Not a nice surprise though.

We've already seen what happens when this manager gets a few quid. So don't hold out any hope on that front. All that money came from the fans and the sponsors and the poor sods stuck in front of TV screens hoping to see a proper match. None of it came from the pockets of our billionaire owners. So don't look for hope there either.

Football is on rails right now and Stan Kroenke has positioned himself perfectly to ride all the way to fat profits without lifting a finger, or quite literally even saying a word. He's watched the decline. He's watched the manager fart about the place. And he's done nothing about it because it's just not something he gives a shit about. His focus is on the money coming into the game and the money that is yet to come. Don't forget that Euro super league hovering just over the horizon. That's his holy grail and the "big clubs" have their little arrangements stitched tight so it won't really matter if Arsenal are 10th or 12th or 16th once we are parachuted onto that gravy express.

There's no reason whatsoever for Kroenke to be concerned and at the first sign of trouble he can bank half a billion quid, minimum. Tell me again how he's going to ride to the rescue should this decline refuse to bottom out.

Culture, value, traditions my Arse. Profit, their Arse. We're a thing of the past. They don't need us any more and we're as delusional as Wenger if we think they do. Only reason we'd ever matter again is if we found a unified way to shove our traditional boot right up their cultured arse holes.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well as highly articulate as that outburst was as always

But this all boils down still to I want to win the Internet.

At the end of the day, there are things people on this board people aren’t going to agree on and we can go round and round ad Infinitum.

If you are insisting that something needs to be done, the only important thing is getting agreement on what’s to be done. And for that you do have that incredibly broad consensus....Wenger has to go.

[Cripps]

Since when? As always things are not as simple as you seem to think.
Two seasons after The Invincibles we were scrabbling around trying to hang on to the top 4, two years in a row we snuck in on the last day.
The season after that we were title contenders before falling apart at the end.
Since then we've been bimbling around not really going anywhere. The football is clearly not as good to watch, in terns of results there's not been much in it. We've won a few FA Cups which has been nice but the league form has been patchy and we haven't seriously challenged for the title. There hasn't been a clear, steady decline. Apart from in entertainment value I suppose.

Ladies and gentlemen this is what we have to deal with. Arsenal football club has not been in gradual decline.

[Niall_Quinn]

Is it? Please elaborate. How do those statistics distort the true picture?

From a top 2 title contender, to a top 4 trophy hunter, to a top 6 club with culture when all around is vulgar - what's that going to be, Moral Champions? If you can't see a decline then you are refusing to look. Maybe you are saying the decline hasn't happened fast enough to be classed as a decline? Okay then, it's a slow decline. Man Utd have won a title, lost a legend, suffered farce and regained the top 4 while we have been trudging towards our top 6 status.

Some say our titles winning teams played the best football ever seen, comparable with the great Brazilian sides of the past. That's where we were. Now we're assured a top 6 spot? Sounds a bit like a decline to me.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well as highly articulate as that outburst was as always

But this all boils down still to I want to win the Internet.

At the end of the day, there are things people on this board people aren’t going to agree on and we can go round and round ad Infinitum.

If you are insisting that something needs to be done, the only important thing is getting agreement on what’s to be done. And for that you do have that incredibly broad consensus....Wenger has to go.

Does it?

I'm pretty sure my message today has been let's stop making fucking excuses, let's unify the fan base and let's kick these cunts out of our club. Mainly because that's the ONLY option left if anyone is even interested in seeing this club go back to what it is supposed to be doing. Not winning titles because we are entitled, but trying to win titles because that's the purpose of the game.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Does it?

I'm pretty sure my message today has been let's stop making fucking excuses, let's unify the fan base and let's kick these cunts out of our club. Mainly because that's the ONLY option left if anyone is even interested in seeing this club go back to what it is supposed to be doing. Not winning titles because we are entitled, but trying to win titles because that's the purpose of the game.

No what you are doing is replaying history

If everyone accepts Wenger has to go, I’m not sure what else you are looking for

The only sensible area of meaningful discussion then becomes how do we achieve this?

[Niall_Quinn]

No what you are doing is replaying history

If everyone accepts Wenger has to go, I’m not sure what else you are looking for

Eh?

I'm doing the precise opposite, predicting the future. That's what we were arguing about, right? Who was best at it? Well at least we can all predict the future this time around without argument, or so you would think.

There's no Wenger out btw. Not as things stand. Not unless the still significant body of arseholes who sing his name whenever he is challenged get their shit in gear. That's what's got to happen if anything is to be changed and if Wenger is to be forced out. For sure, the rest of us have been here a while. How much longer?

[Özim]

Like with everything else in life bit more complicated than that

Did Wenger have the benefit of being able to utilise the leadership of players like Adams and how that trickled down to the players he brought in? For sure.

But if you read Adams book, it was Wenger and his new methods that kept him in the game that much longer. Muscle exercises that could combat fatigue allow more durability and even added to defensive displays (being able to jump higher)

What’s changed in football terms, is that current managers are largely just politicians. They work on coaching methods, number crunching, tactical game plans etc that are decided on collectively by large and structured coaching teams. But they are the figurehead of those decisions, they are the voice at press conferences and the figure on the bench.
The same way politicians are mouthpieces for decisions worked out between them and civil servants and special advisors

Wenger is the one who thinks he can do it all on his own

That's the general scenario though, I know Adams did say he extended his career and I agree his new diets and training methods were great (nowadays they seem to be counteractive though) but I was really making the point that we know he's not an organiser or a motivator, so having that platform to work with helped a lot, he could have easily carried that on, ut he clearly didn't value that side enough and let it fall by the wayside, he often cites leadership not being important.

I know football has changed as well, but if you look at what he does you can see simple options that would surely help, options he point blank refuses to explore, right now he's the architect of his own downfall, he's actually sabotaging the clubs chances of success, it wouldn't be so hard for someone to look at something that doesn't work and try something different, he just point blank won't.

You can't say he's unable to, because quite frankly the guy down the pub could make some suggestions which make sense, he just doesn't want to and the reality is he prioritises profit over what happens on the pitch.