Where has Wenger gone wrong?

[selassie]

https://twitter.com/DarrenArsenal1/s...056264705?s=19

DarrenArsenal

Decent article that.

[Goonermerree]

A bit of a p*ss take on 5 Live fighting talk of Arsene and Arsenal TV. Oh we are a laughing stock!

[Letters]

I think it's as simple as he was a man ahead of his time...but that time was over 20 years ago.

It seems obvious now that footballers are athletes and should behave as such. When Wenger came in it was in the era when clubs still had "drinking schools", players would start the day with fried breakfasts.
Wenger's diet and fitness methods made us fitter than other teams. Players from that era have credited Wenger for extending their careers.

He also had a knowledge of the European and worldwide game which allowed him to cherry-pick some great players before they were on other team's radars.
It was perhaps a happy co-incidence that it was at a time when French players had a golden generation.

He did inherit a good defence and captain but just crediting his success to that is too simplistic - The Invincibles was pretty much entirely Wenger's squad, Vieira was Wenger's captain.

So where did it all go wrong? Wenger has always had weaknesses.
He was never a good motivator - but you don't need to be when you've got Adams or Vieira out there.
He was never a good tactician - but when you've got players like Vieira, Henry, Bergkamp et al, you don't need to be a master tactician.

Wenger's weaknesses were always apparent, looking back. It's hard to notice when you're winning a sack of trophies, but thinking back - we never retained the title, that squad really should have.
We failed in Europe - that squad really should have won a CL or two.
But in the early days his strengths outweighed his weaknesses.

Then other clubs started to improve their fitness methods.
Other clubs started to build global scouting networks.
Then the billionaires stuck their oars in.

Wenger no longer has the edge he once had. He's like a man who had a 128k Spectrum when everyone else had 48k ones, but then everyone else bought and Atari ST and Wenger didn't upgrade.
I still think he did pretty well in an era when the billionaires were starting to have a big impact and our finances were restricted by the stadium move to keep us relatively competitive.
For all the failures the 3 FA Cups have been nice.
But he's just not up to competing for the biggest prizes any more.

IMO the issue is more than Wenger hasn't changed, football has changed around him and he's been unable to keep up.
To be fair, not managers can. Clough did amazing things but couldn't sustain it and ended up taking Forest down in the end.
We haven't fallen anywhere near that far and I don't think we will. I just wish Wenger had gone at the end of last season, it was probably his last chance to get out with some dignity.

[Power n Glory]

I think it's as simple as he was a man ahead of his time...but that time was over 20 years ago.

It seems obvious now that footballers are athletes and should behave as such. When Wenger came in it was in the era when clubs still had "drinking schools", players would start the day with fried breakfasts.
Wenger's diet and fitness methods made us fitter than other teams. Players from that era have credited Wenger for extending their careers.

He also had a knowledge of the European and worldwide game which allowed him to cherry-pick some great players before they were on other team's radars.
It was perhaps a happy co-incidence that it was at a time when French players had a golden generation.

He did inherit a good defence and captain but just crediting his success to that is too simplistic - The Invincibles was pretty much entirely Wenger's squad, Vieira was Wenger's captain.

So where did it all go wrong? Wenger has always had weaknesses.
He was never a good motivator - but you don't need to be when you've got Adams or Vieira out there.
He was never a good tactician - but when you've got players like Vieira, Henry, Bergkamp et al, you don't need to be a master tactician.

Wenger's weaknesses were always apparent, looking back. It's hard to notice when you're winning a sack of trophies, but thinking back - we never retained the title, that squad really should have.
We failed in Europe - that squad really should have won a CL or two.
But in the early days his strengths outweighed his weaknesses.

Then other clubs started to improve their fitness methods.
Other clubs started to build global scouting networks.
Then the billionaires stuck their oars in.

Wenger no longer has the edge he once had. He's like a man who had a 128k Spectrum when everyone else had 48k ones, but then everyone else bought and Atari ST and Wenger didn't upgrade.
I still think he did pretty well in an era when the billionaires were starting to have a big impact and our finances were restricted by the stadium move to keep us relatively competitive.
For all the failures the 3 FA Cups have been nice.
But he's just not up to competing for the biggest prizes any more.

IMO the issue is more than Wenger hasn't changed, football has changed around him and he's been unable to keep up.
To be fair, not managers can. Clough did amazing things but couldn't sustain it and ended up taking Forest down in the end.
We haven't fallen anywhere near that far and I don't think we will. I just wish Wenger had gone at the end of last season, it was probably his last chance to get out with some dignity.

You're right about him always having these weaknesses and I'm glad it can be discussed without people saying it's revisionism. The rose tints have now come off.

[Goonermerree]

I think Wenger also stubbornly resisted the money coming in to football.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think Wenger also stubbornly resisted the money coming in to football.

There's the morality of a thing and then there's the reality of it. If Wenger's role these past 20 years had been to philosophise about the state of modern football then he's made some good points and done a great job, maybe too good a job as he never shuts up. But his actual job, in the real world, has been football manager of Arsenal Football Club. And the goal of a competitive sports team is to win. That's what he's resisted.

[Letters]

You're right about him always having these weaknesses and I'm glad it can be discussed without people saying it's revisionism. The rose tints have now come off.

I've been arguing this for years, that the problem isn't how much he's change but how much he hasn't while football has changed around him.
But it is revisionism to claim silly things like he was never any good in the first place and he just got lucky and inherited a good squad.

[Marc Overmars]

The game has certainly moved on without him but recently I actually think he’s developed new weaknesses.

He was never that bad a coach, he always managed to deliver a high standard of football even when the squad was perceived to be a lot weaker than it is now. Getting his team to be the sum of their parts was always something you could rely on but now the team is so dysfunctional, he’s really lost his grasp on them. He’s developed a blind spot for how his teams have always played and now we’re left with this broken mess we see today. He could elevate the game of any player but individuals are actually becoming worse under his guidance now.

[IBK]

I think it's as simple as he was a man ahead of his time...but that time was over 20 years ago.

It seems obvious now that footballers are athletes and should behave as such. When Wenger came in it was in the era when clubs still had "drinking schools", players would start the day with fried breakfasts.
Wenger's diet and fitness methods made us fitter than other teams. Players from that era have credited Wenger for extending their careers.

He also had a knowledge of the European and worldwide game which allowed him to cherry-pick some great players before they were on other team's radars.
It was perhaps a happy co-incidence that it was at a time when French players had a golden generation.

He did inherit a good defence and captain but just crediting his success to that is too simplistic - The Invincibles was pretty much entirely Wenger's squad, Vieira was Wenger's captain.

So where did it all go wrong? Wenger has always had weaknesses.
He was never a good motivator - but you don't need to be when you've got Adams or Vieira out there.
He was never a good tactician - but when you've got players like Vieira, Henry, Bergkamp et al, you don't need to be a master tactician.

Wenger's weaknesses were always apparent, looking back. It's hard to notice when you're winning a sack of trophies, but thinking back - we never retained the title, that squad really should have.
We failed in Europe - that squad really should have won a CL or two.
But in the early days his strengths outweighed his weaknesses.

Then other clubs started to improve their fitness methods.
Other clubs started to build global scouting networks.
Then the billionaires stuck their oars in.

Wenger no longer has the edge he once had. He's like a man who had a 128k Spectrum when everyone else had 48k ones, but then everyone else bought and Atari ST and Wenger didn't upgrade.
I still think he did pretty well in an era when the billionaires were starting to have a big impact and our finances were restricted by the stadium move to keep us relatively competitive.
For all the failures the 3 FA Cups have been nice.
But he's just not up to competing for the biggest prizes any more.

IMO the issue is more than Wenger hasn't changed, football has changed around him and he's been unable to keep up.
To be fair, not managers can. Clough did amazing things but couldn't sustain it and ended up taking Forest down in the end.
We haven't fallen anywhere near that far and I don't think we will. I just wish Wenger had gone at the end of last season, it was probably his last chance to get out with some dignity.

Agree with all that. Where 'blame' has to be apportioned however is that because of his unprecedented position of power at our club, AW also has an unprecedented duty to take responsibility for what has now been obvious for some time. He has steadfastly resisted the opportunity to bring fresh personnel and ideas into the club - assistant managers with real power to help him, and has been opposed even to the changes in scouting and directorship that have happened lately. For someone with his intelligence and pedigree, it his his lack of understanding and oversight that has to a large degree led to this mess. For years he has been the only person who can in reality orchestrate some change - yes of course the owner and board have connived in this but if the manager had had any real sense of altruism for AFC he should have recognised what was happening and taken steps to address this. What is looks like is that our club's, and his own reputation have paid the price for the manager's megalomania, and that has led to the bitterness and resentment.

[Letters]

The game has certainly moved on without him but recently I actually think he’s developed new weaknesses.

He was never that bad a coach, he always managed to deliver a high standard of football even when the squad was perceived to be a lot weaker than it is now. Getting his team to be the sum of their parts was always something you could rely on but now the team is so dysfunctional, he’s really lost his grasp on them. He’s developed a blind spot for how his teams have always played and now we’re left with this broken mess we see today. He could elevate the game of any player but individuals are actually becoming worse under his guidance now.

A few times over the last decade I've thought he's "lost the dressing room", but every other time we've pulled it together and gone on one of our runs, latterly we've even managed to win some trophies, so it seemed he'd never completely lost them.
Now though, it really does seem that the players have lost faith in him and maybe each other. It's quite the mess. BUT, I do believe we have a good squad and I don't think a new manager would find it that hard to get this lot in the top 4 and challenging anyone (well, apart from this season's City who are doing pretty crazy, unprecedented things)