Armand Traore

[Özim]

Would messieurs Song, Gibbs, Waclott, Ramnsey, Bendtner, Djuorru and Fabregas not be considered as products of our youth system?

I always thought we had an abnormally high number of players in the senior team who where brought here before 21. Depends on how you slice this hair I suppose.

Sure, we all (I think) agree that not enough experienced players are retained/purchased but to suggest that the youth system is failing the club is a little silly.

Selling Bendtner and Denilson alone for 18mill combined I think more than compensates us for wages and resources spent on them whilst they where here.

Only if you consider players like Rooney and Ronaldo products of Man Utd's youth policy.

I personally don't, those two have improved, but generally footballers will when they have a lot of talent and are surrounded by other quality players. Rooney was initially discovered and developed by Everton and Ronaldo by Sporting.

I never said it was failing, just that it's not actually anything our of the ordinary.

[Darth Vela]

Yeah, West Ham probably have one of the best youth records around, Carrick/Lampard/Cole/Ferdinand (R, not A) all top class players imo and if we can match that with our crop then I'll be happy.

I can see your first point, that's pretty valid although I reckon the chances they get to play at the top level in actual matches outweigh any potential gain from having the older, mentor-type players around, after all we have coaches for a reason, right?

I don't see what the fact that other talented players developing into great players has to do with anything, I'm not claiming we have some kind of monopoly on developing good young players but that we have a bit of an advantage due to the way we're set up, younger players getting more chances are more likely to develop quicker and further, if we can't agree on that I ain't gonna ever agree with you on youth.

[AKBapologist]

Sure it is different/special/unusual, no other team has so many players under 23 with so many games behind them. At Arsenal, they simply get huge amounts of time to play. I don't think there are many other clubs in the EPL like that tbh.

[Özim]

I can see your first point, that's pretty valid although I reckon the chances they get to play at the top level in actual matches outweigh any potential gain from having the older, mentor-type players around, after all we have coaches for a reason, right?

I don't see what the fact that other talented players developing into great players has to do with anything, I'm not claiming we have some kind of monopoly on developing good young players but that we have a bit of an advantage due to the way we're set up, younger players getting more chances are more likely to develop quicker and further, if we can't agree on that I ain't gonna ever agree with you on youth.

I still think learning from other top players seems to be the best method, you often use to hear from other players how they'd idolise Henry for example and that they learnt so much from him. If you look at our team now, it could be coincidence but they don't seem to have the hunger or motivation to really deliver success.

Whilst our young players do get more chances, I believe the top youngsters will break through regardless, the players who have more chance with us in reality are those youngsters who are not so special, players like Denilson, Bendtner, Gibbs etc....players who maybe would get to play at other big clubs because they don't have the talent/desire to dislodge their more experienced 1st team members.

[Özim]

Sure it is different/special/unusual, no other team has so many players under 23 with so many games behind them. At Arsenal, they simply get huge amounts of time to play. I don't think there are many other clubs in the EPL like that tbh.

Very true, but it follows that they should be far in advance of their counterparts at other clubs, the problem is most of these guys are nothing special so their counterparts are often way ahead of them because they needed more talent to break through in the 1st place.

[Darth Vela]

I still think learning from other top players seems to be the best method, you often use to hear from other players how they'd idolise Henry for example and that they learnt so much from him. If you look at our team now, it could be coincidence but they don't seem to have the hunger or motivation to really deliver success.

Whilst our young players do get more chances, I believe the top youngsters will break through regardless, the players who have more chance with us in reality are those youngsters who are not so special, players like Denilson, Bendtner, Gibbs etc....players who maybe would get to play at other big clubs because they don't have the talent/desire to dislodge their more experienced 1st team members.

It is a useful thing to have older guys to learn from, I think that's why we welcome guys like Pires/Beckham back to train and wanted Sol to stay for another year but if it's a case of attitude and mentality (which I believe our main problem is) being at fault I'm not sure having those guys around makes a big difference for that, we've always had experience at the back and that didn't work out so well.

Also, if we're talking the top youngsters then in most cases they will force their way through (i.e. the guys like Messi/Ronaldo/Cesc/Pedro/Casillas) but the majority of guys that go onto become great players weren't at the top from the start, Zidane/Ronaldinho/Villa all needed to pay their dues to improve to the level they got to, or are at in Villa's case, if we can expedite this process by accelerated involvement when they're ready to play a part, we get better players, more quickly. That's the theory anyway, it hasn't been an unqualified success but we wouldn't have maintained this level if it was a failure, a reasonable number of our players are ahead of where they would have been otherwise imo; I'm fully aware that opinion is borderline nutty atm and completely unsubstantiated but I wouldn't bet against both Denilson and Bentdner doing well for their new teams, along with any other of our older first team youngsters that leave.

[Daniele]

he had a poor season here at Juventus what with injuries, inconsistent displays and so on. Better get rid of.

[fakeyank]

Even a blind chicken is better than Clichy, so yes, I'd love him here!

[selassie]

Even a blind chicken is better than Clichy, so yes, I'd love him here!

Traore is worse than Clichy.

In fact I'd go as far as to say he's hopeless, he's awful defensively and a complete headless chicken.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

The way i see it Wenger hasn't done much wrong with his youth policy apart from bringing too many in to quickly into the first team, we need a blend of youngsters and experience which hopefully he may now change.

although I agree with you in sense, I am not too sure about the bringing in too quickly part.......it's more like he has shown far too much reliance on it, like you said he overlooked the importance of blend in bits of experience and I am sorry Silvestre does not quantify that arguement!!!