Here's where we are.

[cricketsi]

Just to weight in on Saka...

He is clearly a high quality player. What really makes him stand out is his consistency at such a young age. It's not coincidence he became not only a key player for Arsenal, but also for England in the Euros last year. In international tournament football, Southgate clearly valued having somebody he knew would not let him down. Again, that's very rare for such a young player. I'd say 90% of his games are a 7/10 or above, and he never really drops a clanger. Year on year he appears to be adding more productivity. Now, that's not to say there isn't a tendency to overrate him somewhat, because we're buying into not only what he is right now, but what we think he can become. On top of that he seems a really nice young man and has come through our own academy, so it's inevitable there will be some extra fondness for him. When we're scratching around looking for positives at times with it being relatively lean times as an Arsenal fan, then of course it might not take as much to get us excited, but nonetheless, he's a very good player in his own right.

I looked up for comparison the stats for some of the more productive wide forwards from the past 20 years (just a random selection of ones that came to mind, not trying to cherry pick). Here's their numbers in the season in which they turned 20, as Saka did this past season (Appearances, Goals, Assists)


Bukayo Saka - Apps: 43, G: 12, A: 7
Cristiano Ronaldo - Apps: 50, G: 9, A: 9
Arjen Robben - Apps: 34, G: 8, A: 14 (in Eredivisie)
Franck Ribery - not yet playing senior football
Sadio Mané - Apps: 19, G: 1, A: 1 (in Ligue 2)
Mohamed Salah: Apps: 15, G: 7, A: 3 (in Egyptian PL)
Raheem Sterling: Apps: 52, G: 11, A: 10
Serge Gnabry - not yet playing senior football
Kingsley Coman: Apps 37, G: 6, A: 12
Heung-Min Son: Apps: 34, G: 12, A:2

Basically, he compares well there with some very useful players. I think possibly the only wingers who blow him out of the water in terms of numbers at the same age are Neymar and Messi. Every player's development curve varies, and the hope is that he continues on his current trajectory. If it turned out he peaked aged 20, then sure, he'd definitely be viewed as overhyped in hindsight.

Really, the biggest worry is that he's being overburdened too soon, and whether that will take a toll on his body in the longer term. Some competition for him will be beneficial for this as well as encouraging him to raise his game further to get to that next level.

[mandela8]

Just to weight in on Saka...

He is clearly a high quality player. What really makes him stand out is his consistency at such a young age. It's not coincidence he became not only a key player for Arsenal, but also for England in the Euros last year. In international tournament football, Southgate clearly valued having somebody he knew would not let him down. Again, that's very rare for such a young player. I'd say 90% of his games are a 7/10 or above, and he never really drops a clanger. Year on year he appears to be adding more productivity. Now, that's not to say there isn't a tendency to overrate him somewhat, because we're buying into not only what he is right now, but what we think he can become. On top of that he seems a really nice young man and has come through our own academy, so it's inevitable there will be some extra fondness for him. When we're scratching around looking for positives at times with it being relatively lean times as an Arsenal fan, then of course it might not take as much to get us excited, but nonetheless, he's a very good player in his own right.

I looked up for comparison the stats for some of the more productive wide forwards from the past 20 years (just a random selection of ones that came to mind, not trying to cherry pick). Here's their numbers in the season in which they turned 20, as Saka did this past season (Appearances, Goals, Assists)


Bukayo Saka - Apps: 43, G: 12, A: 7
Cristiano Ronaldo - Apps: 50, G: 9, A: 9
Arjen Robben - Apps: 34, G: 8, A: 14 (in Eredivisie)
Franck Ribery - not yet playing senior football
Sadio Mané - Apps: 19, G: 1, A: 1 (in Ligue 2)
Mohamed Salah: Apps: 15, G: 7, A: 3 (in Egyptian PL)
Raheem Sterling: Apps: 52, G: 11, A: 10
Serge Gnabry - not yet playing senior football
Kingsley Coman: Apps 37, G: 6, A: 12
Heung-Min Son: Apps: 34, G: 12, A:2

Basically, he compares well there with some very useful players. I think possibly the only wingers who blow him out of the water in terms of numbers at the same age are Neymar and Messi. Every player's development curve varies, and the hope is that he continues on his current trajectory. If it turned out he peaked aged 20, then sure, he'd definitely be viewed as overhyped in hindsight.

Really, the biggest worry is that he's being overburdened too soon, and whether that will take a toll on his body in the longer term. Some competition for him will be beneficial for this as well as encouraging him to raise his game further to get to that next level.

Laughable.

Suggesting he averages a 7 or over is so utterly fuckin ridiculous I'm not even sure how to respond. He usually starts a game brightest then disappears for most of it.
If that's a 7 then we're absolutely fucked, ffs.

I'll agree that him also fooling an idiot like Southgate is amazing.

I genuinely hope he plays every minute for England.

[cricketsi]

Laughable.

Suggesting he averages a 7 or over is so utterly fuckin ridiculous I'm not even sure how to respond. He usually starts a game brightest then disappears for most of it.
If that's a 7 then we're absolutely fucked, ffs.

I'll agree that him also fooling an idiot like Southgate is amazing.

I genuinely hope he plays every minute for England.

It might be ridiculous in your opinion, but your hyperbolic response is clearly that.

Saka started 3 games for England at Euro 2020. His average scores on the BBC player ratings, i.e. mostly not from Arsenal fans, were 7.74, 7.04 and 6.53. Sky Sports gave him 8/10 for the tournament, The Independent gave him 7.5/10, Evening Standard 8/10, Mirror 8/10, etc.

There might be calibration differences - some people might think a rating of 4/10 is a baseline average, others a 6/10, so maybe your own personal quantitative measure of performance may vary.

I think the majority of Arsenal fans would agree he looked as though he was suffering from burn out by the end of last season. It would be foolish not to take that into account, and your observation that he fades as games go on probably reflect the fact he's overplayed - hence the club clearly looking at a RW addition in the transfer market. If he's allowed a decent rest and used appropriately, then hopefully you'll end up seeing him in the same light as most of the rest of us.

[mandela8]

It might be ridiculous in your opinion, but your hyperbolic response is clearly that.

Saka started 3 games for England at Euro 2020. His average scores on the BBC player ratings, i.e. mostly not from Arsenal fans, were 7.74, 7.04 and 6.53. Sky Sports gave him 8/10 for the tournament, The Independent gave him 7.5/10, Evening Standard 8/10, Mirror 8/10, etc.

There might be calibration differences - some people might think a rating of 4/10 is a baseline average, others a 6/10, so maybe your own personal quantitative measure of performance may vary.

I think the majority of Arsenal fans would agree he looked as though he was suffering from burn out by the end of last season. It would be foolish not to take that into account, and your observation that he fades as games go on probably reflect the fact he's overplayed - hence the club clearly looking at a RW addition in the transfer market. If he's allowed a decent rest and used appropriately, then hopefully you'll end up seeing him in the same light as most of the rest of us.

As I said, I've watched him play utter shit only to get MOM and an 8/10. There's some mental hype/agenda around him that most seems to have just bought into. It's fuckin weird and, frankly, doesn't do him any favors long term, imo (= fact).

As for him burning out towards the end of the season. I didn't notice that at all. I think people were actually just starting to realize that he is a total hype job at this point and rather than admit they were wrong/bought into the nonsense used fatigue as the excuse.

He was consistently poor for the entire season.

[Gooner23]

As I said, I've watched him play utter shit only to get MOM and an 8/10. There's some mental hype/agenda around him that most seems to have just bought into. It's fuckin weird and, frankly, doesn't do him any favors long term, imo (= fact).

As for him burning out towards the end of the season. I didn't notice that at all. I think people were actually just starting to realize that he is a total hype job at this point and rather than admit they were wrong/bought into the nonsense used fatigue as the excuse.

He was consistently poor for the entire season.

Consistently poor for the entire season? Don't be ridiculous.

[mandela8]

Consistently poor for the entire season? Don't be ridiculous.

I opened a challenge for anyone to tell me the games he was good in.

One person attempted but I stopped reading when they said summin like "terrorized Man City..."

[mandela8]

What I will say, in the intradest of fairness, on Saka is that if he could shoot or was able to be more direct/decisive then he could/should have had a 20+ goal season last year. He certainly had the opportunities. And these are the types of skills that do develop towards the end of the development cycle for most attacking players.

Hopefully he can kick on but we really need to stop the ridiculousness around him, man. If anything it's probably detrimental to him because if he thinks he's putting in 7/10s every weeks he's thinking he's made it, which we've seen evidence of with some of his effort at times, particularly defensively, when he has a long, long way to go.