Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[Marc Overmars]

Whilst I was unaware of Auba’s disciplinary record at Dortmund, I can’t see how it negates what Auba has said. Big players on big wages are prone to take the piss and this idea that you can just freeze everyone out who doesn’t always do what their told is great if you’re back in the 1990s and your Alex Ferguson dealing with Paul Ince. But in the real world, what’s he going to do with Saka and Saliba when they get put on big money contracts and they don’t always behave impeccably as a result?

Well we know what he will do, he will do what he’s always done…be passive aggressive and isolate them and then end up selling them for nothing.

Don’t get me wrong you can’t simply let players get away with everything but if you put players on big money that comes with the expectation that they won’t be totally pliant anymore…that’s the football situation. If Auba earns more money than Arteta, what incentive has he got to follow the rules set down by him especially when players respect former players based on their own footballing achievements and Arteta had an average career.
Footballers are human beings not sheep, you need to be able to show that you can handle big players…I can’t see why this is controversial, it’s not…nor is the suggestion that Arteta gives no indication of having the strength of personality to deal with it.
There’s a limit of course, Ozil was obviously a complete cunt…who spent the last year trolling the club on social media.
If Auba runs into similar trouble at Chelsea I’ll admit I was wrong about this, but I don’t think I will…whether you and I like it or not, clubs like Chelsea will give him more freedom to do what he wants

While big players on big wages are more prone to taking the piss, the majority remain professional. City have players on 500k a week if not more but I’d imagine they’re also some of the most professional players in the game. Auba is obviously an eccentric character but not everyone is going to indulge him that’s why he was sent packing. It was essential for Arteta to set his own standards and expectations and for whatever reason Auba decided to not respect that. I don’t see why Saka and Saliba would suddenly act out of line when they’re given new deals, they’re far more likely to fall in line given their age and the fact they owe a lot to Arteta, well Saliba less so but certainly Saka does.

Also, there’s a certain degree of irony if Auba didn’t respect the career Arteta had. Without even checking, I’m sure Auba has never won a league title and only has a couple of domestic cups to show for his honours list? Not too dissimilar to the coach then.

Anyway, we’ve moved on and while last season was a kick in the balls, long term I don’t think we’ll be regretting that decision to let him go at all. If anything, I’d say the saga with Auba cemented Arteta’s standing as a coach and someone who should be respected.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And all I’m saying is regardless of what one thinks of Auba’s behaviour there is nothing he has said which seems at all out of line with what is obvious to me but I get accused of making stuff up. I don’t say this stuff for nothing, it’s not even that peculiar to Arteta….Emery clearly didn’t have the strength of personality to deal with big egos and that’s why he failed at Arsenal.
At the moment we have a young and hungry team, but when the spotlight falls on these players it inflates the Ego. Saliba is already a very outspoken individual, it seems ridiculous to believe he won’t do or say something that will not put him into conflict with Arteta…it’s really a question of when and not if.

Saka is more shy but he’s not very bright, so all it will take is having things whispered in his ears by Agents for him to start misbehaving

And what does Arteta do then? If he’s smart and adaptable he will find a way of being accommodating whilst not losing his authority. But he doesn’t strike me as being Adaptable (being smart is beyond question, he’s clearly highly intelligent)

[Marc Overmars]

Well when the time comes for those young players we shall see. I’m confident though that a relationship built from a young age is more likely to more fruitful than one thrown together by circumstance.

[Letters]

Whilst I was unaware of Auba’s disciplinary record at Dortmund, I can’t see how it negates what Auba has said.

It negates what you said.
And the thing that negates what Auba said is the fact it's Auba who said it. As I said, he's the "bitter ex", he's not exactly a neutral and impartial observer, commenting on the way Arteta deals with things.
He's the disciplined and eventually expelled pupil moaning about how shit the head master is, not taking a moment to reflect on his own behaviour.
And if Saka starts strutting round like the big man in a couple of years then I expect Arteta to deal with him similarly. And my gut feeling about Saka is he would respond very differently

I do have concerns about the modern game and player discipline. How do you discipline someone on £300k a week? What can you actually do? Especially when you know they'll have a queue of clubs lining up to pay them even more money. It's interesting what you say about Auba earning more than Arteta - I'm reading a book about the modern history of Arsenal right now and Graham had a rule that he always earned more than the players as he was the manager and the buck stopped with him. I think he's right, but that doesn't fly in the modern game. It does somewhat undermine any manager's ability to discipline players.

If Auba runs into similar trouble at Chelsea I’ll admit I was wrong about this

Why do you have to wait for that? MO has already shown you that Auba ran in to trouble at a previous club.

[Marc Overmars]

Also regarding Chelsea, he went there for Tuchel but now his coach is another rookie at this level who had a playing career in the lower leagues. Surely a recipe for disaster then given what happened with Arteta? He will score goals for Chelsea because despite all the baggage he’s a very good striker, but just because they might tolerate it doesn’t mean we weren’t right to get rid.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It negates what you said.
And the thing that negates what Auba said is the fact it's Auba who said it. As I said, he's the "bitter ex", he's not exactly a neutral and impartial observer, commenting on the way Arteta deals with things.
He's the disciplined and eventually expelled pupil moaning about how shit the head master is, not taking a moment to reflect on his own behaviour.
And if Saka starts strutting round like the big man in a couple of years then I expect Arteta to deal with him similarly. And my gut feeling about Saka is he would respond very differently

I do have concerns about the modern game and player discipline. How do you discipline someone on £300k a week? What can you actually do? Especially when you know they'll have a queue of clubs lining up to pay them even more money. It's interesting what you say about Auba earning more than Arteta - I'm reading a book about the modern history of Arsenal right now and Graham had a rule that he always earned more than the players as he was the manager and the buck stopped with him. I think he's right, but that doesn't fly in the modern game. It does somewhat undermine any manager's ability to discipline players.


Why do you have to wait for that? MO has already shown you that Auba ran in to trouble at a previous club.

Because he didn’t leave Barcelona under a cloud, if he has no problems at Chelsea it will suggest far more likely the issue is with clubs like Arsenal and Dortmund having small club mentality. As I’ve said the issue is not being able to accept that we don’t live in the world of what should, if you don’t think being a football star and having loads of money makes you a prima Donna then you understand nothing about human behaviour (which already seems apparent to me given your insistence that quite obvious conclusions drawn about Arteta from his manner and his body language were guess work)

But importantly, this isn’t about Aubemeyang it’s about Arteta. When i say it doesn’t negate what he says I mean it. If Ozil who is one of the worlds biggest cunts had said what Auba had said I’d still look at the content of what was said rather than dismiss it because a) who said it and b) let’s face it because it’s telling you something you probably know deep down is true but don’t want to accept.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Also regarding Chelsea, he went there for Tuchel but now his coach is another rookie at this level who had a playing career in the lower leagues. Surely a recipe for disaster then given what happened with Arteta? He will score goals for Chelsea because despite all the baggage he’s a very good striker, but just because they might tolerate it doesn’t mean we weren’t right to get rid.

The thing you have to ask yourself is what harm would have been done to the club if he’d stayed until the summer? At worst we’d have had to buy out the rest of his contract which is what we did anyway.

There is absolutely zero benefit for us as a club to have let him go when we did. Would we have finished top four had he stayed? You know what I don’t know…possibly not given he wasn’t scoring particularly that much before we parted company. But if all it took to get goals out of him was to make him feel loved (scored quite a few for Barcelona) I think it might have been worth stroking his ego for another few months.

Now inadvertently we are in a position where the guy could seriously come back to bite us in the backside in the chase for 4th

[Marc Overmars]

Thing is I actually agree that he may possibly have difficulty in dealing with big egos but I just don’t believe it’s as bad a trait as you think. The goal last year was EL so maybe the club just felt they could deal with the risk of missing out on CL.

In All or Nothing they mentioned that they didn’t want to have to deal with his contract in the summer, which is what would have happened had he stayed or been loaned. Barca offered the chance for a clean break so financially for us it was good as the termination was mutual. Had he still been on the books how quickly would we have been able to sign the players we did with him hanging around on 300k a week? He didn’t have many suitors in January and got lucky that Barca were going mental, otherwise I’m not sure how easy it would have been to move him on.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Thing is I actually agree that he may possibly have difficulty in dealing with big egos but I just don’t believe it’s as bad a trait as you think. The goal last year was EL so maybe the club just felt they could deal with the risk of missing out on CL.

In All or Nothing they mentioned that they didn’t want to have to deal with his contract in the summer, which is what would have happened had he stayed or been loaned. Barca offered the chance for a clean break so financially for us it was good as the termination was mutual. Had he still been on the books how quickly would we have been able to sign the players we did with him hanging around on 300k a week? He didn’t have many suitors in January and got lucky that Barca were going mental, otherwise I’m not sure how easy it would have been to move him on.

Depends what your ambitions are

If top four is the sum of what we are looking to achieve then possibly not a draw back.

But anything more it’s going to be a problem

We say that Arteta takes the Guardiola stance towards players but ultimately even for Guardiola has his limits. Haaland for example….At this moment in time Haaland could be luring children to rape, murder and eat whilst wearing their remains as jewellery in training sessions…not only that but he could be passing round photographs evidencing what he did whilst laughing about it and you’d think he’d probably get some leeway given a) the amount of money he’s on and b) what he’s producing for the club.
Now obviously this is hyperbole on my part, but probably by less than you’d imagine….Haaland can’t be dropped at the moment which means he can do whatever he likes.

And Auba going in January was far more about players asking why he was training by himself…maybe you’re right that it was best to sell him simply because Arteta wouldn’t have played him, to do that he’d have to admit he was wrong.

[Marc Overmars]

Not exactly a fair comparison!
Haaland is the worlds best performing player right now, of course Pep would have to do some ego stroking to keep that going. Auba was not deserving of that treatment, his impact was on the slide as soon as he got his big deal.