Winter Transfer Missed Opportunities and Regrets

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

And finally, to those whose arguement that the money for Mudryk was ludicrous and we did things the right way.....enjoy the read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talkspo...-transfer/amp/

Could say I told you so, but I'm not Letters lol

[HCZ_Reborn]

Understand all that. But on the anomaly point - football progresses, and while you can of course say that our league position is a divergence from recent years I don't think that you can look at past seasons to assume that this trend will continue for Arsenal this season. The evidence is before our eyes. Arsenal is clearly a team on an upward trajectory and extrapolating from our performances this season suggests that we will finish in the top places. Its a question of belief, really. Yes we need to play teams that may be competing for top four, but we have already beaten Spurs twice for the first time in 8 seasons; Liverpool; Chelsea twice in the last year. We have found consistency that we lacked formerly and there is more reason for reason for optimism than for assuming we will lose against all the teams you have mentioned.

What I take issue with is the suggestion that we are only where we are because the traditional top teams have been inconsistent. Again, football evolves and with the money and talent flowing to the EPL other teams are undoubtedly uppoing their game, and this is to an extent why we are seeing 'anomalous' results week on week. So far, we are the team that has weathered this storm best.

I agree that we may fall short of the title - and the main reason for this (if it happens) will be fatigue and injuries that mean we can't play our first 11. But based on the evidence of this season my prediction is that the inconsistency of our competitors is more likely to continue than not.

I think the problem here is you seem to be describing what you think is most likely, and I’m describing what is possible.


I assume nothing, my explanation has been to provide evidence why it cannot be assumed we have secured top four let alone can launch a sustained title challenge. And the fundamental rationale I provide is that it’s just too early, the season isn’t old enough to assume that Arsenal’s form isn’t just anomalous based on a) our previous seasons and b) the previous seasons of the teams we are ahead of in the league.
I don’t believe anything I’ve said is fatalistic, or even suggests that the likelihood that “reality will assert itself” or some such thing. It’s simply to say we are 18 games in, it’s far too early to make any confident extrapolation.

Do I accept that it’s possible that the indifferent form of other sides will continue where as we will remain reasonably consistent? Yes because as you’ve stated there is evidence for that. Our form has actually followed a pattern, five wins…points dropped, four wins, points dropped, five wins, points dropped…now if that pattern continues you could maybe expect us to win the next three league games before we lose or draw.

But when I said anomalous I also mean unprecedented and it’s hard to predict the future without at least some reference of what has gone before, and whilst the short term future suggests our form will continue in that we seem to have avoided long winless runs…I don’t think there’s enough to suggest with any degree of confidence that will continue. But equally there’s also nothing strongly to say it won’t.

I don’t think we are favourites for the title purely because we’ve played 18 games. There’s too many variables and uncertainty out there.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And finally, to those whose arguement that the money for Mudryk was ludicrous and we did things the right way.....enjoy the read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/talkspo...-transfer/amp/

Could say I told you so, but I'm not Letters lol

I’m genuinely at a loss as to what you think you’ve proven here

Are you literally saying we did the wrong thing by tapping the player up?

Cos I’m not sure you’d have been saying that had it been successful

And I’m not in anyway sure why you think this article proves that the money (both in terms of the transfer fee and wages) wasn’t ludicrous. In fact I think it’s more than likely that Chelsea had to offer Mudryk silly wages in order to turn his head sufficiently.

But given your whole argument is doing what it takes to get the player you want, your assertion that somehow we behaved in an underhand way lacks for logic i am afraid to say.

As for Chelsea, this is a club with a history of tapping players up, need I remind you of Ashley Cole. And it proves their transfer strategy is rather superficial in the sense of “Arsenal want this player, so he might be good…let’s sign him”. Now if that’s how they want to operate that’s up to them.

The only reasonable critique that can be made is a potential failure to earmark any alternative that ticks many of the same boxes as Mudryk, and you’ve taken great exception to the idea that if the only alternatives are Trossard or Raphinia…it’d be better to keep our hands in our pockets.

To be Frank with you, I think you’re lacking for a consistent argument to justify your tantrum throwing and you’re now in the desperation of throwing anything at the wall and seeing if it sticks

[IBK]

Yeah I read the Guardian article, nice but says pretty much what we've been saying on here already....in fact I could accuse the guy of being on Gweb.

From what you've said, my disagreement with you is that I wont change my stance that we messed up the Mudryk deal (seeing as I called out our dithering even before it became fatal).

Also like Mac76 pointed out, I don't think all our signings have to be about thinking about the long term...I support anything that strengthens the squad now (loans, recalls, whatever). It should be clear to all that we tried our darndest to get over the line this season.

Some people are petrified of getting egg all over their face, I'm not one.

Don't think we really have a disagreement mate. Your stance is a legitimate opinion - I guess I just blame Chelsea and their financial oppression more than Arsenal...and understand our reluctance to be played off.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Its your opinion. The same way my opinion is that you and your ilk have a serious case of "small club syndrome" and are one of the numerous enablers that have allowed this club to sink to such a rut; I mean its so bad that you are struggling to even fathom a title push after almost half the season gone!! In the good old days even when we were 9 points behind at this stage, most of fandom never gave up. Anyway....it is what it is.



Where do I start on this?

The funny thing about every single assertion you have made so far is you have put no evidence to support it. To think I am the one accused of acting like a woman, despite all your arguments being based on your "feelings" and safe repetitive balderdash that you re-echo from major posters on this forum. I could waste my time listing the Anelkas, Arshavins and Aubas we have signed in January, but you will still go back to your default groupthink.

The thing is you admit, like I do, that we didn't do enough in the summer to cover our weak spots. So what's wrong in having and taking advantage of a chance to correct it for the other half of the season? You even admit that we haven't won the league because we have half of our games to go, surely that suggests that putting in maximum effort to ensure your other half of the season goes well can't be a bad thing. Especially when its clear rivals are also making good use of it to address their inadequacies. Or is the whole world mad and we are the only ones who are sane?

I suggest sometimes we take a break and think "independently" about things. The idea of a place like this should be for us to exchange ideas and not just reverberate the company stance while patting ourselves on the back.



Again, like I've said over and over again, I'm not fully convinced we need another winger, so you won't get much of an argument from me on this.


Yeah I do think there is a possibility of us not making 4th, it involves Partey breaking his leg in February and not having adequate backup

The difference is my opinion is based on what you’re saying, your opinion is based on how you’re reacting to what you think I’m saying.

But yet you correct yourself half way through your post, first of all to say that I’ve behaving like a woman by not being confident enough to say we are favourites for the title only to then actually agree with the logic that means I’ve come to that conclusion.

And people like me have kept us unambitious? I love that you hold me in such high esteem that you think I had any ability to influence any decision taking by this club in the last fifteen years. I’d love it if I felt that Edu came on this car crash of a site and thought “HCZ thinks we should do this, better heed his sage counsel”. But ultimately you’re suffering from a delusional mindset…it’s a bit like how idiots blocking traffic think they are shaping the dialogue in any meaningful or constructive way.

What you and I think or how we behave in relation to this club…simply does not matter. This site is for the purposes of distraction, for Arsenal fans bored of their job, or their screaming ungrateful kids or their wife who every day they find that little less attractive.

That’s as far as our influence extends…if what I wanted to happen happened, Wenger would have been gone after the 8-2 defeat at Old Trafford. And we’d have signed a lot of players we didn’t sign, and I say with the benefit of hindsight that it would have been completely hit and miss whether it worked or not.

There have been transfers we’ve missed out on and failed opportunities that make me seeth, I would have liked to see us sign Mudryk…and I don’t think I’ve said our transfer strategy is perfect or even non sub optimal. It’s just on the balance, I can’t find it within me to feel too bad about a player that was signed for almost twice his realistic value on a silly contract.

You call it small club mentality and have presented no evidence of any big club that hasn’t ultimately made a Rod for its own back behaving that way.

[IBK]

I think the problem here is you seem to be describing what you think is most likely, and I’m describing what is possible.


I assume nothing, my explanation has been to provide evidence why it cannot be assumed we have secured top four let alone can launch a sustained title challenge. And the fundamental rationale I provide is that it’s just too early, the season isn’t old enough to assume that Arsenal’s form isn’t just anomalous based on a) our previous seasons and b) the previous seasons of the teams we are ahead of in the league.
I don’t believe anything I’ve said is fatalistic, or even suggests that the likelihood that “reality will assert itself” or some such thing. It’s simply to say we are 18 games in, it’s far too early to make any confident extrapolation.

Do I accept that it’s possible that the indifferent form of other sides will continue where as we will remain reasonably consistent? Yes because as you’ve stated there is evidence for that. Our form has actually followed a pattern, five wins…points dropped, four wins, points dropped, five wins, points dropped…now if that pattern continues you could maybe expect us to win the next three league games before we lose or draw.

But when I said anomalous I also mean unprecedented and it’s hard to predict the future without at least some reference of what has gone before, and whilst the short term future suggests our form will continue in that we seem to have avoided long winless runs…I don’t think there’s enough to suggest with any degree of confidence that will continue. But equally there’s also nothing strongly to say it won’t.

I don’t think we are favourites for the title purely because we’ve played 18 games. There’s too many variables and uncertainty out there.

I don't either. I also happen to think that before this season started our aim was top four and that this aim should be achievable, and probably remains the club's priority. CL football will of itself change things fundamentally as regards future transfers.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't either. I also happen to think that before this season started our aim was top four and that this aim should be achievable, and probably remains the club's priority. CL football will of itself change things fundamentally as regards future transfers.

Oh Champions League is eminently achievable. I’m simply stating the fact that we haven’t yet achieved it


If you’re asking whether I think we will get it. The answer is yes…whilst possible I think it incredibly unlikely we will finish lower than 4th.

What has changed is that winning the title is now a laudable goal, it’s not unrealistic. I still think it unlikely but as I’ve said that opinion changes and evolves with time

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think the problem here is you seem to be describing what you think is most likely, and I’m describing what is possible.


I assume nothing, my explanation has been to provide evidence why it cannot be assumed we have secured top four let alone can launch a sustained title challenge. And the fundamental rationale I provide is that it’s just too early, the season isn’t old enough to assume that Arsenal’s form isn’t just anomalous based on a) our previous seasons and b) the previous seasons of the teams we are ahead of in the league.
I don’t believe anything I’ve said is fatalistic, or even suggests that the likelihood that “reality will assert itself” or some such thing. It’s simply to say we are 18 games in, it’s far too early to make any confident extrapolation.

Do I accept that it’s possible that the indifferent form of other sides will continue where as we will remain reasonably consistent? Yes because as you’ve stated there is evidence for that. Our form has actually followed a pattern, five wins…points dropped, four wins, points dropped, five wins, points dropped…now if that pattern continues you could maybe expect us to win the next three league games before we lose or draw.

But when I said anomalous I also mean unprecedented and it’s hard to predict the future without at least some reference of what has gone before, and whilst the short term future suggests our form will continue in that we seem to have avoided long winless runs…I don’t think there’s enough to suggest with any degree of confidence that will continue. But equally there’s also nothing strongly to say it won’t.

I don’t think we are favourites for the title purely because we’ve played 18 games. There’s too many variables and uncertainty out there.

This is one of the things I complained about when having debates with you; you seem not to provide evidence of any of your assertions while making it sound like you are.

Below is a snapshot of the EPL at half year stage last year. It is clear that every single team chasing us, that has a realistic chance of the title, has either equalled or done better than their half term haul last year. By the way, they also all seemed to have all miraculously finished in the top 4 at the end of the year.

Obviously these are just stats and I am not saying they must hold, but why do you frame your arguments like they are logical and based on some sort of empirical evidence while not recognising its just fear thats making you see things the way you are?

BTW I am not suggesting there is anything wrong with being afraid that we will mess it up as we have a consistent history of doing so, but recognise what the basis of your argument is built on and stop trying to dress it up as something else.

https://www.worldfootball.net/schedu...19/halbzeit-2/

[IBK]

The difference is my opinion is based on what you’re saying, your opinion is based on how you’re reacting to what you think I’m saying.

But yet you correct yourself half way through your post, first of all to say that I’ve behaving like a woman by not being confident enough to say we are favourites for the title only to then actually agree with the logic that means I’ve come to that conclusion.

And people like me have kept us unambitious? I love that you hold me in such high esteem that you think I had any ability to influence any decision taking by this club in the last fifteen years. I’d love it if I felt that Edu came on this car crash of a site and thought “HCZ thinks we should do this, better heed his sage counsel”. But ultimately you’re suffering from a delusional mindset…it’s a bit like how idiots blocking traffic think they are shaping the dialogue in any meaningful or constructive way.

What you and I think or how we behave in relation to this club…simply does not matter. This site is for the purposes of distraction, for Arsenal fans bored of their job, or their screaming ungrateful kids or their wife who every day they find that little less attractive.

That’s as far as our influence extends…if what I wanted to happen happened, Wenger would have been gone after the 8-2 defeat at Old Trafford. And we’d have signed a lot of players we didn’t sign, and I say with the benefit of hindsight that it would have been completely hit and miss whether it worked or not.

There have been transfers we’ve missed out on and failed opportunities that make me seeth, I would have liked to see us sign Mudryk…and I don’t think I’ve said our transfer strategy is perfect or even non sub optimal. It’s just on the balance, I can’t find it within me to feel too bad about a player that was signed for almost twice his realistic value on a silly contract.

You call it small club mentality and have presented no evidence of any big club that hasn’t ultimately made a Rod for its own back behaving that way.

Expanding on your theme - there have undoubtedly been transfer disasters and missed opportunities at the other EPL 'big clubs'. The difference with Citeh; Chelsea and Manure is that it matters less as their funding is effectively unlimited. Our model is different and I agree that the stakes are higher for us when it comes to breaking the bank - both in terms of our financing and the method by which we have chosen to try to build success by developing a team rather than buying one.

For me, this is not small club syndrome - its simply acknowledging the reality. I agree with you re Mudryk in this context and we will wait to see whether Chelsea's deliberate distortion of the market in their favour works. i donlt think I've ever wanted a club to fail more...

[IBK]

Oh Champions League is eminently achievable. I’m simply stating the fact that we haven’t yet achieved it


If you’re asking whether I think we will get it. The answer is yes…whilst possible I think it incredibly unlikely we will finish lower than 4th.

What has changed is that winning the title is now a laudable goal, it’s not unrealistic. I still think it unlikely but as I’ve said that opinion changes and evolves with time

Nothing to disagree with here ; )