Arsenal 0-1 West Ham Match Reaction

[IBK]

I think we are honestly over complicating things in a way that we don’t need to.

I think there are parallels with Man City for sure, in that you can’t remove key players from a team and expect anything positive from it.

As for our vulnerability to counter attacks, it really is as simple as Arteta’s insistence on playing Partey at 6. It doesn’t work and it leaves our centre backs exposed.


There’s no point discussing a system change that will allow us to become more efficient going forward, because we simply don’t have the players to facilitate this. Even if (as we should do) we swap Rice and Partey around it’s not going to exponentially speed things up. The reason as I kept trying to explain to NQ the last couple of days we become slow and ponderous in the opponents half is that we lack the ability and confidence to dribble past them or execute a swift pass and move style. I suspect strongly that Odegaard is not fit, his constant decision to play more conservatively I suspect is to avoid further injury.

The one thing I noticed is that we were trying to utilise Merino as a typical centre forward by sending crosses into the box, but West Ham are good at defending crosses. We didn’t have an alternative strategy, and the only player with electric pace was Nwaneri who was marked out of the game and eventually went off with a knock (hopefully just a precaution).


In terms of recruitment this summer I think as well as a striker and a winger we clearly do need another ball playing midfielder. The alternative this season is to move Odegaard to 8 (assuming he’s fit enough to even play which I highly doubt) move Saka to 10 (when he’s back) and Nwaneri to the wing.

Playing Rice and Partey against West Ham at home is unnecessary (or at least it would be without the injury pile up we have)

But as for Saturday, ultimately we could have played more conservatively and come away with a point or a scrappy win, but really the result simply reflects only one thing…the paucity of choice available to us currently

As I say, I think that we resemble Citeh in more ways than simply losing key players. Both teams have done so, but I do think that this exposes a flaw in their approach. A team with the resources of Citeh should not have been undone to the extent they have been by the loss of Rhodri. Maybe he was papering over the cracks (ageing squad etc), but by the same token, they continue to misfire after they spent big in January - buying a very good player in Nico Gonzalez to cover for Rhodri. They also (unlike us) have one of the best strikers in the world in Haaland.

I think that football is moving beyond the Guardiola (and Arteta) possession model, and is becoming more faster and more direct, focussing on transitions to stretch the opposition. Liverpool are exploiting this, but Newcastle; Villa; Forest are also playing in this way. In Forest's case, I have read some interesting stuff about how leaving the lion's share of possession to the opposition is combating fatigue and player burn out. Football evolves quickly, and Guardiola (and his protege Arteta) suddenly look vulnerable. You are right, we don't have the players to play a different way - but this is even more of a worry for me. Our limited recruitment over the Summer - and indeed over the last few transfer windows is the antithesis of the game that many of our competitors are making work for them.

I fear that trying to buy more players with the technical ability to cope with a demanding 'system-based' style of play may not only be difficult, but that the style of play itself may be past its sell by date.

[HCZ_Reborn]

As I say, I think that we resemble Citeh in more ways than simply losing key players. Both teams have done so, but I do think that this exposes a flaw in their approach. A team with the resources of Citeh should not have been undone to the extent they have been by the loss of Rhodri. Maybe he was papering over the cracks (ageing squad etc), but by the same token, they continue to misfire after they spent big in January - buying a very good player in Nico Gonzalez to cover for Rhodri. They also (unlike us) have one of the best strikers in the world in Haaland.

I think that football is moving beyond the Guardiola (and Arteta) possession model, and is becoming more faster and more direct, focussing on transitions to stretch the opposition. Liverpool are exploiting this, but Newcastle; Villa; Forest are also playing in this way. In Forest's case, I have read some interesting stuff about how leaving the lion's share of possession to the opposition is combating fatigue and player burn out. Football evolves quickly, and Guardiola (and his protege Arteta) suddenly look vulnerable. You are right, we don't have the players to play a different way - but this is even more of a worry for me. Our limited recruitment over the Summer - and indeed over the last few transfer windows is the antithesis of the game that many of our competitors are making work for them.

I fear that trying to buy more players with the technical ability to cope with a demanding 'system-based' style of play may not only be difficult, but that the style of play itself may be past its sell by date.

Again I’m really far from convinced. I’m sure there is some stylistic change in the game, that happens a lot. How relevant that is to us this season…just don’t see it.

Liverpool lost Van Dijk to injury in the Merseyside derby in 2020 they went from being league champions to only securing 4th on the last day of the season. Not saying we would have won the title if Saliba stayed fit but I think it clearly torpedoed any chance of us winning the thing

A football team can absolutely be affected by the loss of even one player if that player is key to how they play.

I’m not denying we need to change our style and be more direct, but it makes not a bit of difference to where we are currently. We lost at home to West Ham because we don’t have goalscorers in the team, it really isn’t anymore complicated than that.

Quick Transition play works well when you’re playing a side that will come out and attack you, but it’s naive to assume teams didn’t think to employ that against City last session. No they just had a beast of a player in Rodri who was able to neutralise the threat on the brief occasions the opponent did get the ball

[Niall_Quinn]

Again I’m really far from convinced. I’m sure there is some stylistic change in the game, that happens a lot. How relevant that is to us this season…just don’t see it.

Liverpool lost Van Dijk to injury in the Merseyside derby in 2020 they went from being league champions to only securing 4th on the last day of the season. Not saying we would have won the title if Saliba stayed fit but I think it clearly torpedoed any chance of us winning the thing

A football team can absolutely be affected by the loss of even one player if that player is key to how they play.

I’m not denying we need to change our style and be more direct, but it makes not a bit of difference to where we are currently. We lost at home to West Ham because we don’t have goalscorers in the team, it really isn’t anymore complicated than that.

Quick Transition play works well when you’re playing a side that will come out and attack you, but it’s naive to assume teams didn’t think to employ that against City last session. No they just had a beast of a player in Rodri who was able to neutralise the threat on the brief occasions the opponent did get the ball

You are still measuring everything with the Pep mindset. There's ALWAYS space on a pitch, always. Watch any game, the space is right there if you have the players that can exploit it. And I'm not talking intricate triangles that pull opponents out of position, I'm talking actual space, open grass. You'll see it 50 times in a game. But very few want to exploit it or can exploit it. We have the technical and pacey players that could put endless pressure on stubborn defences. I know you don't agree but if technical ability and pace are not the key attributes we have in this squad then what the hell do we have?

[HCZ_Reborn]

You are still measuring everything with the Pep mindset. There's ALWAYS space on a pitch, always. Watch any game, the space is right there if you have the players that can exploit it. And I'm not talking intricate triangles that pull opponents out of position, I'm talking actual space, open grass. You'll see it 50 times in a game. But very few want to exploit it or can exploit it. We have the technical and pacey players that could put endless pressure on stubborn defences. I know you don't agree but if technical ability and pace are not the key attributes we have in this squad then what the hell do we have?

Of course there’s always space on a pitch, but if a team comes to defend that space will tend to be behind you and only in front of your opponents

It’s got nothing to do with style of play it’s to do with the fact that defenders and especially full backs are quicker and fitter than they used to be, if you’ve got a speed merchant on the wing the defence will double up on him, if you’ve got two (which we don’t currently) the job is much harder.

There is something to be said for being able to get the ball forward quickly but again only possible if you have someone technically competent in central midfield, we don’t…

As for Pep ball, you again are somehow convinced that the slow metronomic passing is a feature of a system. It’s not, it’s a consequence of where the team has been able to maintain their defensive shape before you’ve got into their third.

Of course you can pull players out of position and stretch play, but it’s a hell of a lot more difficult when a team has committed to positional discipline and only coming forward on the break.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Of course there’s always space on a pitch, but if a team comes to defend that space will tend to be behind you and only in front of your opponents

It’s got nothing to do with style of play it’s to do with the fact that defenders and especially full backs are quicker and fitter than they used to be, if you’ve got a speed merchant on the wing the defence will double up on him, if you’ve got two (which we don’t currently) the job is much harder.

There is something to be said for being able to get the ball forward quickly but again only possible if you have someone technically competent in central midfield, we don’t…

As for Pep ball, you again are somehow convinced that the slow metronomic passing is a feature of a system. It’s not, it’s a consequence of where the team has been able to maintain their defensive shape before you’ve got into their third.

Of course you can pull players out of position and stretch play, but it’s a hell of a lot more difficult when a team has committed to positional discipline and only coming forward on the break.

Yes but teams find it easy to defend against us entirely because we are too slow to attack.

We are more concerned with racking up the possession and no. of passes completed stats to worry about actually running up the pitch directly, and putting the defences under any sort of pressure.

Instead they have a good 5 minutes to get their whole team back in the 18 yard a box and line up ready to stop our pass the ball the death attacking.

[Mac76]

Yes but teams find it easy to defend against us entirely because we are too slow to attack.

We are more concerned with racking up the possession and no. of passes completed stats to worry about actually running up the pitch directly, and putting the defences under any sort of pressure.

Instead they have a good 5 minutes to get their whole team back in the 18 yard a box and line up ready to stop our pass the ball the death attacking.

This, this, this, this, this, this, th-well, you get the picture

[Niall_Quinn]

Btw, the keeper opting against fucking around in his own box but instead thumping it into a channel for somebody to chase can also be called a transition, or Stoke or whatever you want to call it. Well Liverpool know how to do it, works for them, why can't we give it a try?