Winter Transfer Missed Opportunities and Regrets

[HCZ_Reborn]

As usual, you just jump in with very little helpful, criticising posters who make observations about things you haven't pointed out yet. Next time I'll be sure to wait for your seal of approval before commenting on anything you haven't rubber-stamped.

We signed teenage Saliba, on a 5 year contract, in 2019 from a small ligue 1 club for a big transfer fee based on solely potential. His annual wage at that time was $2m and he was the highest paid teenager at the club and probably the EPL at that time . Remember he was not starting, nor even close to starting, but it was a gamble for the future which we were willing to risk.

He's shipped off on loan for the first 3 years where he does well. With increasing spotlight and fan pressure, Arteta reluctantly gives him a chance in his 4th year, breaks into the team, has a great season till March when he gets injured. Before the next season could start we approach him to sign his new 4 year contract while he is injured. We offer him a new annual salary of $10m, 5 times more than what he was earning making him top 5 best paid defenders in the EPL, probably top 10 in the world . These were the facts then

Saliba had a good 7 months in England. He's foreign born and has in interviews expressed poor knowledge of the history of the team he currently plays for. He's been asked about Real Madrid and only smiles. The best french talent for the last 2 decades have played in La Liga, it's not a secret. During his loan period PSG started sniffing around and he's childhood friends with Mbappe, whose father also happened to be his coach! Arsenal do not live in a bubble, which you seem to like to create when you are in the mood to defend the club

You mentioned Chelsea, thinking you'd preempt me, saying they are the ones silly enough to give young players, who everyone is gambling on, long contracts. But realistically, looking at this scenario, is it stupid, that once you've paid a high transfer fee for potential, and the potential seems to be coming through, you should be smart enough to secure your investment for as long as you can, especially when you've only really enjoyed it for 7 months and already you are having to pay top dollar to retain it? Is it really stupid?

Foden is a year older than Saliba. He broke into the Citeh's team in 2019 and before the end of the year, Citeh get him to sign a new five year contract after initially only offering him a 3 year contract when he was 16. The contract was for $624k a year and Foden had already started scoring goals for Citeh in both the EPL and CL by that time. This is the same year we signed Saliba, who everyone classified as potential. Anyway Foden's next contract with Citeh would be in 2022 when he's already a superstar, and guess what, its 5 years again, but this time at almost $12m. Before Foden, they'd had young stars like Stones come through from Everton who they signed for a 6 year contract initially and at the age of 26 still offered him a 5 year contract, which he is still currently on. I don't need to tell you that Haaland's first contract was 5 years and his new one is a shocking 10 years.

At Liverpool, its pretty much the same for young talent. Gomez has signed 4 contracts with Liverpool since he's been there and they've all been 5 years. Robertson has signed 3, all 5 years. Trent's first 3 had all been 5 years or longer, till this recent one which he signed for 4 years.....and now Liverpool are running helter-skelter, trying to get him to renew and its the usual suspect that wants to take him for a free

So its not a Chelsea thing, that when you have young players that are performing remarkably for their age, you get them to sign contracts of 5 years or more. To me its just common sense that you'd want to protect a gamble that paid off. But you can go on trying to score cheap points and making your argument that "it was the best his agent would allow us to do and poor Arsenal have no leverage" , when even Saka, who would bleed for this club, is only on a silly 4 year contract.

BTW the terms are all in dollars as I used this website for the contract info.

www.spotrac.com

That was a very beautiful homily.

So the examples you gave me are Joe Gomez who let’s be fair is a squad player at best for Liverpool and Phil Foden who is a Man City academy player. The circumstances aren’t really like for like are they?

But again I ask you, do you think the club chose to only give Saliba a two year extension or do you think they might have wanted to tie him down to a longer deal but a player with no natural loyalty to the club and an agent who like all agents is thinking of money first and foremost may have persuaded his client to only sign a two year deal?

My problem with some of your moans is you treat the club like it was run like Kidz company and we’ve got someone like Camilla Batmangeldh running things. For me it’s as silly as the zombies who intone “Trust the process” because they probably weren’t even born when we first won the title under Wenger.

You’re pissed off with things at the moment (and absolutely with good reason) there are times where I’ve gone off the deep end and need to get a sense of perspective. If I think someone is being over the top I’m going to say so….people have with me on here when I’ve gone into a psychopathic fury over something Arteta has done

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

So the examples you gave me are Joe Gomez who let’s be fair is a squad player at best for Liverpool and Phil Foden who is a Man City academy player. The circumstances aren’t really like for like are they?

But again I ask you, do you think the club chose to only give Saliba a two year extension or do you think they might have wanted to tie him down to a longer deal but a player with no natural loyalty to the club and an agent who like all agents is thinking of money first and foremost may have persuaded his client to only sign a two year deal?

So let's make this easy, seeing as I'm the one who is being irrational, despite being the only one who bothers to give similar examples to why I believe we faltered, yet again.

Can you give me an example, in the last 5 years, of a top professional footballer (before you go looking for what happened at Notts County) who turned down a new contract at his existing club because it was 5 years or more.

Once you do that I'll apologise to everyone here for being irrational and OTT.

Edit:
@IBK
Just seen your last post, the same challenge goes to you

[HCZ_Reborn]

So let's make this easy, seeing as I'm the one who is being irrational, despite being the only one who bothers to give similar examples to why I believe we faltered, yet again.

Can you give me an example, in the last 5 years, of a top professional footballer (before you go looking for what happened at Notts County) who turned down a new contract at his existing club because it was 5 years or more.

Once you do that I'll apologise to everyone here for being irrational and OTT.

Edit:
@IBK
Just seen your last post, the same challenge goes to you

At the risk of answering your question with a question, have you heard of a club withdrawing from contract negotiations with a player because they wanted to tie him down for longer than the player wanted?


This is why they are called contract negotiations, the club might want one thing, the agent and the player another and in most cases the press aren’t going to hear about what goes on behind closed doors


So to put my point in further perspective. There are lots of decisions made by management in my job that utterly mystify me…but I accept that I can only reason with the information available to me. I make a point in meetings of questioning what they do, and you know sometimes they’ve had to factor in something I’ve not even considered, and sometimes yeah….its just utter fucking stupidity

So alls I’m saying is, it’s not a happy time to be an Arsenal fan we all feel pissed off. But as I say, it could be that we have people in charge who are about as business savvy as those at the head of ENRON. It could equally be that there are factors involved that we’ve not considered

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

At the risk of answering your question with a question, have you heard of a club withdrawing from contract negotiations with a player because they wanted to tie him down for longer than the player wanted?


This is why they are called contract negotiations, the club might want one thing, the agent and the player another and in most cases the press aren’t going to hear about what goes on behind closed doors


So to put my point in further perspective. There are lots of decisions made by management in my job that utterly mystify me…but I accept that I can only reason with the information available to me. I make a point in meetings of questioning what they do, and you know sometimes they’ve had to factor in something I’ve not even considered, and sometimes yeah….its just utter fucking stupidity

So alls I’m saying is, it’s not a happy time to be an Arsenal fan we all feel pissed off. But as I say, it could be that we have people in charge who are about as business savvy as those at the head of ENRON. It could equally be that there are factors involved that we’ve not considered

It is crystal clear that you are clutching at straws.

Negotiations leak regularly when there are disagreements causing stalemate or conflict. For example we know Liverpool have been trying to tie Salah, Van Dijk and Trent down, but they are not signing because the terms are not favourable to them yet. In Salah's case we know Liverpool did not offer him a contract as at November last year, because the player publicly came out to confirm the rumours that had already been swirling around. We know they changed tact in December and initially offered a 1 year extension, which has now been upgraded to 2 years. However we also know that both he and his agent prefer a 3 year extension because they've also let that out.

Top footballers have been celebrities for quite a while and there is literally nothing that doesn't leak especially when it has the ability to capture the public's interest. So no, if a top player had been offered a 5 year contract by a club and he insisted on 4 or even shorter and they both failed to agree, we'd have heard just like whats happening with Liverpool.

Now, against my better judgment, I'm going to explain why it's not logical that the club offered a 5 year contract to Saliba and his agent insisted on 4 years instead, which you initially claimed was the more probable thing that occurred and is what I should have assumed if I didn't have a "grouse" with the club.

Firstly, the majority of player agents (especially those representing players in top leagues) do not make most of their income from transfer fees as most of the public believes. Its a notion that the press has encouraged, but it hasn't been true for quite a while. Player agents are paid a % of the salaries they negotiate for their clients, capped at 3-5% currently, but as high as 10% pre 2023. Agents who earn from transfer fees, are either agents acting on behalf of the buying club (capped at 3-7% of wages currently) or agents acting on behalf of the selling club (capped at 10% of fee currently). So to make it clear, in a typical transfer that involves two clubs and a player, all 3 parties can have agents representing them.

Now a big reason why this notion of agents pushing clients to seek for transfers exists is because we have had a few high profile cases where a player's agent also acts as the agent for either the buying club or the selling club. In fact we have had cases where a player's agent acts for all 3, and is pretty much where the greed in the system is exposed. Anyway, FIFA has rules put in place since 2023, which does not allow for this to happen anymore and a player's agent can only act for 2 parties. Though this rule was enforced in October 2023, FIFA had since announced it by 2022 after a few scandalous transfers, especially those linked to one super agent in particular, Mino Raiola, whose agency executed the Pogba and Haaland transfers. The greedy fucker also happened to be the president of agents association called the Football Forum.

So going back to Saliba, his agent at that time and till now is Djibril Niang and he isn't even close to what you will call a super agent. Tranfermarkt suggests that the talent he manages is valued at €110m, with Saliba accounting for €80m of that total. So clearly, Saliba is his cash cow and he will want to ensure the income he gets from Saliba is protected for as long as possible.

Like I pointed out, he gets paid as long as Saliba earns a salary. He gets paid more every time Saliba gets a salary increase. Now note, with the examples I gave of Gomez who has been at Liverpool for almost 10 years, yet has signed 4 contracts of 5 year lengths; or Haaland, who has been at City for less than 3 years but has signed 2 contracts totalling 16 years; it is clear that getting a salary increase is not dependent on the length of your contract or moving to another club, but how well a player performs. It is also clear that longer contracts with good terms benefit agents because if for any reason there is a drop in their player's performance or he is injured long term, the club cannot reduce the salary and both the agent's and player's income are safe. However, signing a shorter contract and loss of form/injuries/relevance occurring, would definitely lead to a club offering less wages in a new contract that's if they even bother to offer one at all... and if you insist on examples, I can definitely give.

So once again, for a top footballer earning top wages, the longer the contract the better. The same for his agent as it does not preclude the player from earning a bigger contract and definitely does not stop him from enjoying a big money transfer as no length of contract will stop a top player from moving to a top club of his choice as the Mbappe debacle showed and PSG learnt the hard way.

Now finally to buttress the point on longer contracts being preferred, I mentioned how Haaland's initial transfer to Citeh was seen as a bit scandalous. His agent at that time, Rafaela Pimenta and his father made a rumoured €40m by doing what I mentioned earlier and acting as agents for the various parties. His dad's relationship with Citeh was one of the reasons why this was possible but immediately after that transfer FIFA announced they were stepping in. Now, till today, Haaland is still represented by Rafaela's agency and she was the first one to let it slip as far back as 2023 that both her and Citeh were working on something to ensure Halaand's proper value of €1 billion would be reflected. So, I ask, is not strange, or should I say illogical, that someone who made a killing from moving her client to another club just a few years ago would allow the world's hottest striker to sign a contract that sounds a bit like modern-day slavery @ 10 years, with previous buy-out clauses frozen (until after 5 years) which was the loophole she exploited so successfully @ Dortmund. Is it logical that she had been working with Citeh on this for more than a year?

While you can keep up with your view that our suits offered him 5 years or more and his agent rejected it, asking me to accept it as more logical/probable is tantamount to saying I should accept the proverbial saying "a bird in hand..." was built on a fallacy. Maybe I could, but definitely not with responses like above.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’m quite impressed at the level you’ve gone to defend what is essentially you throwing a Paddy (like you always do). Unfortunately none of the examples you give are Germane to the situation

I’ve scanned read your missive, and in my last reply I tried to give you an off ramp but seems you don’t want to take it

What details do you know about the leaked contract negotiations for Salah, do you know what the exact sticking points are?

Or do you know that contract talks have hit an impasse (and usually when contract talks are leaked it’s done deliberately by one party or the other to gain leverage)

Yes agents get a pay day when their clients get a salary bump, they get an even bigger one when their clients get a nice big move to a new club with all the add ons and clauses that come with it.

The difference between us my Teddy chucking friend is only one of us is trying to claim they know what happened, because as I’ve said you’re in a frame of mind where you want to frame everything the club does in the worst possible light.

I don’t know that the club offered him five years or more, but I also don’t know that they didn’t. And more importantly neither do you.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I’m quite impressed at the level you’ve gone to defend what is essentially you throwing a Paddy (like you always do). Unfortunately none of the examples you give are Germane to the situation

I’ve scanned read your missive, and in my last reply I tried to give you an off ramp but seems you don’t want to take it

What details do you know about the leaked contract negotiations for Salah, do you know what the exact sticking points are?

Or do you know that contract talks have hit an impasse (and usually when contract talks are leaked it’s done deliberately by one party or the other to gain leverage)

Yes agents get a pay day when their clients get a salary bump, they get an even bigger one when their clients get a nice big move to a new club with all the add ons and clauses that come with it.

The difference between us my Teddy chucking friend is only one of us is trying to claim they know what happened, because as I’ve said you’re in a frame of mind where you want to frame everything the club does in the worst possible light.

I don’t know that the club offered him five years or more, but I also don’t know that they didn’t. And more importantly neither do you.

Deflection and more deflection.... we are use to it as you've always struggled to own your need to stay entrenched in whatever silly or illogical point you've made when you've been found wanting.

Like I said, it was against my better judgement to explain how transfers work to you and how his agent cannot gain directly from the transfer fee anymore while being his agent, but I am a sucker for believing people can improve themselves, but I always forget the part that they need to want to do so themselves.

But its all good, I'll go and throw darts at my Arteta poster now, that's if you'll let me.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You must have been great fun as a child

You throw a tantrum, your parents ask you if it’s entirely necessary for you to have a meltdown, you are so affronted at being accused of throwing a tantrum you get into a pointless back and forth with them about how your reaction was merited

Oh well I tried to engage with you like you were an adult. Yeah you go do that