When will Arteta be sacked by

[HCZ_Reborn]

Anyway talking of wanting an experienced coach, I don’t necessarily disagree with that. I think we just have different ideas on who that should be

Even though now it would be impossible for him to come here, the guy I always thought was the perfect fit for us was Klopp.

I followed his career going back to 2010, and I saw the way Dortmund played and won two league titles under him. He seemed to be the natural successor to Wenger and I think we dithered and we should have got him in the summer of 2015 before he ended up at Liverpool

I’m certain as certain can be, had we done so we’d have had at least one league title between then and now.

Without Klopp there would be no league title for Liverpool this season, it’s his team and his set up…if you like a bit like how Bob Paisley stepped into the shoes of Bill Shankly.

[IBK]

The reason I said that Arteta would (change that to might) walk is that if the owners/board do not back him with the players he now says he wants, I think he is more ambitious than to want to be stuck with perennial under achievers.

Where I am less confident than I was in thinking that we will progress under him is in looking at his longer term player recruitment over the past few years.

The simple truth is that we have never been a really potent attacking team under him. Our goal tally last season is misleading. A potent attacking team does not simply mean number of goals scored, it means the manner in which we attack. In some ways, its an advantage to be able to share goals out. In others, I can't escape the feeling that even at the best of times our goal threat depends upon all cogs in a very tightly coached set up working perfectly. We struggled for goals and found it difficult to convert chances this season with only one key player missing. We have struggled with low blocks for the past couple of seasons. Our strikers' goal tallys in the EPL last season were not great for a 'top team' (Saka 9th - on 16; Havertz 14th - 13; Trossard 18th - 12). this season they are lamentable. We relied for a lot of goals during the second half of last season and the first half of this one on corner routines. These have now dried up. We failed to score in 5 games last season, drew 5 and lost 5. This season we have reached this number already, and are behind Liverpool (1); Citeh (3) and Brighton, Chelsea and Fulham (4).

The games we should have won (or at least not lost) to win the league last season were West Ham at home and Fulham away. This is where a full strength Arteta team was found particularly wanting - and the deal was sealed at home (again) to Villa.

Our style of play and player personnel make it quite difficult to score goals from open play. I think that Arteta's system and philosophy makes us quite vulnerable to the loss of a forward player and to a low block.

One of the reasons why we are struggling to adapt now is that its not possible for players who have been so heavily coached and drilled to autonomisms to change these. I don't see Arteta now trying to recruit players who break the mould and are game changers.

I think also that Arteta's team has been built to deal with the previous threat posed by Citeh - physicality to match theirs and a chess game to outwit Pep's. He has been successful in this, but in doing so has taken his eye off the most effective way to deal with so-called 'lesser teams' who come to defend, concede possession and break on us. My concern is that he will be unwilling, or unable to adapt again.

[HCZ_Reborn]

So yes I think what you say is true in that we’ve been coached to play a certain way thus making it difficult to make big adaptation mid season.

Additionally I think the particular skillset of the players we have is not necessarily adaptable in any event

Because even playing direct in this day and age is a skill, a long ball which is controlled is a skill and one that comes about by working on it in training. The direct goal that Rodgers scored against Palace looked to me an execution of something that had definitely been worked on in training, it certainly wasn’t spontaneous

And that’s my point I guess, spontenaety whilst it still exists in some form because you wouldn’t get these worldies is becoming less and less a feature of the game. How Arteta wants us to play is drilled into the players in training just as much as another coach employing a different system will drill that approach in training

[Mac76]

I also think it would be better for the club as a whole to stop being fixated about the long term and learn to exist in the here and now with a manager who'd probably only do one contract.

Yes i agree, i do think Arteta did a good job of repairing a lot of bad feeling and so maybe at the time he made sense, but as a coach he's not up to it and we just need to start winning now, not in 5 or 10 years

[Mac76]

So yes I think what you say is true in that we’ve been coached to play a certain way thus making it difficult to make big adaptation mid season.

Additionally I think the particular skillset of the players we have is not necessarily adaptable in any event

I can only say again that this is demonstrably false and Everton is just one glaring example of how a manager can come in, change tactics, style and play and if he does in the right way the players adapt successfully

It doesn't matter if they're not a top team, the same principle applies - in fact it's even more relevant in a way if the players aren't top level standard but can clearly still adapt

[HCZ_Reborn]

I can only say again that this is demonstrably false and Everton is just one glaring example of how a manager can come in, change tactics, style and play and if he does in the right way the players adapt successfully

It doesn't matter if they're not a top team, the same principle applies - in fact it's even more relevant in a way if the players aren't top level standard but can clearly still adapt

Everton under throat cancer boy didn’t have a style of play, they just played the same way 11 behind the ball against pretty much everyone. It’s a bit like saying we changed our system when we retreated within our shells when down to ten men.

And actually it makes a big difference if you’re not a top team. For a team that has Championship level players it’s totally possible for a decent coach to get them up to the top half of the bottom end of the table.

A bit like Fabregas with Como

But that ability to make the difference dissipates nearer the top, granted a half wit with the best players can fail to win the biggest honours, but a genius with only the 5th or 6th best squad isn’t going to get the prizes no matter how good he is

[Mac76]

Everton under throat cancer boy didn’t have a style of play, they just played the same way 11 behind the ball against pretty much everyone. It’s a bit like saying we changed our system when we retreated within our shells when down to ten men.

And actually it makes a big difference if you’re not a top team. For a team that has Championship level players it’s totally possible for a decent coach to get them up to the top half of the bottom end of the table.

A bit like Fabregas with Como

But that ability to make the difference dissipates nearer the top, granted a half wit with the best players can fail to win the biggest honours, but a genius with only the 5th or 6th best squad isn’t going to get the prizes no matter how good he is

Sorry, but based on your arguments, Leicester would never have won the PL and Forest wouldn't be in the top 3 after two-thirds of the season

so again you're demonstrably wrong, give this one up it's not worth it

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sorry, but based on your arguments, Leicester would never have won the PL and Forest wouldn't be in the top 3 after two-thirds of the season

so again you're demonstrably wrong, give this one up it's not worth it

Leicester is the exception that proves the rule

It’s like a Gender nutter saying being a hemaphrodite proves there are more than two sexes. It’s called an outlier

From the time the Premier League started, take away that season and tell me that the winner of the league title wasn’t one of the two best teams in terms of player quality.

So you can stick your “you’re demonstrably wrong”


Also don’t come pointing fingers at me about starting arguments with people in future when you’re just as bad yourself

[Mac76]

Leicester is the exception that proves the rule

The rule being that HCZ will say anything to try to defy reason



You said "a genius with only the 5th or 6th best squad isn’t going to get the prizes no matter how good he is"

*Isn't" is a term that has no exceptions, but it happened

You also haven't explained Forest or numerous other examples over previous years

Like i say give it up

[Niall_Quinn]

The rule being that HCZ will say anything to try to defy reason



You said "a genius with only the 5th or 6th best squad isn’t going to get the prizes no matter how good he is"

*Isn't" is a term that has no exceptions, but it happened

You also haven't explained Forest or numerous other examples over previous years

Like i say give it up

Save your breath. He's caught Letters Syndrome.