Wenger Referendum II - And this time it's personal

[Kano]

We'll finish a place higher yet still further away from the champions from last year. What happens if we don't win the cup? Suddenly a potential 'good' season slides back into the indistinguishable averageness of seasons past. Our recent run was just that - a good run. You don't assess a season on a fifth of it. The first half of the season forced us to put together a run like that because we had massively under-performed before. Plaudits for 8 wins on the bounce mean little when the end result is third. If it meant it pushed us close to the title then sure, praises due. All we've been doing is manically making up ground. What about the other bloody four-fifths of the season, you know, the vast majority of it?

Great, we know we're in the group/second round of the CL (depending on our new seed status) so we cling onto the elite once more. Not one fan can confidently step forward and say we're going to win it. So that's one cup gone before a ball is kicked. The league is the one we all want, which will mean our manager out- smarting Mourinho. Hand on heart, how likely is that to happen after how many attempts now? So, that leaves us with the cups once again. Capital One or the Emirates FA Cup? How exciting.

For all the talk this year of there being a difference in this squad, we have followed the same habits and routines of seasons past. The guaranteed end result is a place higher. Winning cups is great, they're trophies that shouldn't be knocked but a big team can't bask in the 'glory' of domestic cup triumphs. There has to be clear signs the team can sustain challenges for the big stuff. We still don't have that.

[Niall_Quinn]

The league is the one we all want, which will mean our manager out

[Niall_Quinn]

It was a remarkable run to get anywhere near 2nd.

Does this mean we've also won the "anywhere near second cup"?

[Letters]

I want us to at least try to do something different.

I think that's fairly reasonable although let's say we finish 3rd (pretty likely) and win the Cup (we should do, but you never know with our lot!) then we'll have won two pretty major cups in two years and finished top 4 in both seasons. I can't agree that's middle class and I don't think anyone bar the billionaire cheats would swap with us.

I want Arsenal to be dominating the league and the club having an aura of superiority.

Well, we all want that but honestly in the era of the billionaire cheats I don't think that will happen under any manager.
Even the billionaire cheats tend to get swept aside by sides like Barca, Real or Bayern.

I quite liked your Simeone idea actually (yes, I had to Google him, so shoot me), but he seems to be a bit of a club hopper. Klopp might well do a good job at Arsenal, he has done very well overall at Dortmund but this season has been a car crash. Koemann has done very well at Southampton, it would be interesting to see what he could do with a side who has the resources of Arsenal.

All I'm trying to point out is that the new bloke, whoever he is, will just have different flaws from Wenger.

[Letters]

The good run is far longer than a fifth of the season.

[Letters]

If it were Wenger you'd be finding a way to cook the books in his favour like you've done recently.

You said that before. No. No I wouldn't.

If we finish 3rd and win the Cup then there are no books to cook. That's a good season. It's not a great season and we should be pushing the billionaire cheats harder but after our poor start we've done well to get where we are. After our poor start a lot of people were saying (like they do year after year) that we wouldn't finish top 4. Now people are complaining that we're not doing better.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's a risk but in order to move on you have to accept risk, whether we accept the extent of the financial constraints of the past or not the fact is that the old flaws still remain....is he any worse than van gaal or pellegrini probably not....but both have far more money to spend to bring in the players to paper over their own shortcomings...whilst we have a good squad now, we also need a top manager to make the most of them.
Whether we win the FA cup or not, he's with us until 2017...there is no way around that...but despite the improvement in January onwards, the failure to challenge for the title or make it past the last 16 of the Champions League makes this another disappointing season when you consider the aspirations a club of our standing should have.....and yes the reason we have that standing is largely because of Wenger but i see no reason to stagnate out of blind loyalty and frankly i'm still counting down the days until his contract runs down and i sure fucking hope he doesn't get another extension.

[Kano]

Beginning of Feb I think we were 5/6 or so. So we've just made up ground. You can stretch back stats for as long as you need to accommodate a positive spin but the fact is it has left to nothing more than third in the league and even further behind the winners. The core of the run - the moment that got everyone's attention was winning so many games in a row. The rest of the run was what was expected from a team who had historically finished in the top four. Take away the opportunity we have of winning the cup, concentrating on the sort of prize we should be pushing for - the league - and it's a pretty unspectacular season up until this point. Of course people are complaining we can't do better. Quite simply because we should be. Cheats and other excuses don't come into it when you look at our first team compared to City or Utd for example. How did Atletico or Dortmund manage to win the league against such disproportionate odds? Managerial nous. The type of which we no longer have. Players can take you so far - about as far as we have for the past decade - a manager is supposed to add that extra ingredient to push onto the league.

[fakeyank]

Well, we all want that but honestly in the era of the billionaire cheats I don't think that will happen under any manager.

I dont agree.. especially with FFP coming into play, they cannot just go and buy the best of the best without making compromises. An example is City and Chelsea this season. They couldnt go beserk and buy anyone and everyone. The 'billionaire cheat' excuse is going to be a lame excuse soon enough. And then you dont have to look beyond SAF to see how a good strong manager can beat 'the billionaire cheat'. Plus there is Klopp and Simeone who are showing that their sides can take the fight against the 'big boys'

An example of you contradicting your previous statement is this where you show that the billionaire cheat does not always get you dominance. It is history and a solid base to build on that is more important

Even the billionaire cheats tend to get swept aside by sides like Barca, Real or Bayern.

We have everything in terms of stadium, revenues and a foundation of fan base to reach the levels of teams above, yet we want to only hang with the likes of Spurs, Liverpool and Everton. We really need to stop making excuses for our mediocrity. We are much better than that... we are settling for just the basic when we are capable of so much better. With Wenger, you will just get the basic and fortunately, I want and expect more.

[Letters]

FFP could yet save us although I'm not convinced it will have much bite, I know City's owners have bought up other clubs they can use to stockpile players and 'loan' them to their main club so I think they'll find ways around it.
And yeah, SAF is the one man who has managed to stop the billionaire cheats from winning a title in the last 10 years, but he is the GOAT, IMO. I seriously have no idea how he won that last title, managers like that don't grow on trees.

If we finish 3rd and win the Cup then it will have been a pretty good season IMO. Certainly not mediocre. With the new financial deal in place we do now have the resources to compete more seriously but I do think the signings of players like Ozil and Sanchez are making a difference and I think we'll challenge next year. As I said in the other thread, let's face it Wenger will be in charge so let's see how he does. As NQ said some time back, we'll probably be having these conversations again this time next year