Arsenal 1-1 Brentford Player rating and match reaction

[HCZ_Reborn]

I disagree with aspects of both points of view, I think Arteta is actually for once rotating probably the right amount. I think it’s clear Rice would have been rested if not for the injury sustained by White in training.

I think sacking off the league and playing under 18s would be just as much of a poor idea as playing a completely full strength team. I think Martinelli probably needs game time, and given he didn’t start against Everton I really don’t think it was that harmful to start him for both Real Madrid and Brentford. I’m simply not convinced the champions league can be treated as a seperate entity to the league. Plus I think Saka showed that there’s a balance that needs to be had, between making sure he’s not run into the ground again and giving him enough game time to build up his confidence and match fitness.

I think for what it’s worth, as I said on the match thread that having gone to the game myself that many fans were as you say philosophical….disappointed with the result but enjoyed the performance. I’m not sure that they’d have felt that way if we had played the kids and lost by several goals….plus that’s the kind of thing that can get you heavily fined by the FA or the premier league.

I’m certainly not saying this as an Arteta stan but in terms of who he’s putting out there, I think he’s probably got the balance right

[IBK]

I take all the points about rotation and our priorities lying elsewhere, but I felt disappointed by yet another draw on Saturday - having been deservedly in front - to an opposition that had only 2 shots on target and an Xg of....0.19. And we created less after MLS; Timber; Odegard and Saka came on than before.

For me Arteta was all over the place with his subs. There was no pressing reason to bring MLS, Odegard or Saka on, and I do not really understand why they weren't fully rested. Starting Partey in a physically demanding LB role when he has racked up more minutes recently than almost any other Arsenal player and he was so key against RM was a risk IMO, and I hope that his injury wasn't serious. While I understand more taking Rice off, he still played 75 mins, and Merino was expected to pick up playing in his place when he has been playing up front. It was as though Areta did not know whether to twist or stick, and his subs disrupted what had been a decent performance from most of the understudies - with the exception maybe of Nwaneri. For me there was no reason to leave us with 10 players by the end when Jorghino - one of our best players on the day - got injured.

Getting a bit sick of all these draws...but onto Wednesday we go.

I praised Arteta for his player management against Everton. Not so much on Saturday.

[Mac76]

For me Arteta was all over the place with his subs. There was no pressing reason to bring MLS, Odegard or Saka on, and I do not really understand why they weren't fully rested. Starting Partey in a physically demanding LB role when he has racked up more minutes recently than almost any other Arsenal player and he was so key against RM was a risk IMO, and I hope that his injury wasn't serious. While I understand more taking Rice off, he still played 75 mins, and Merino was expected to pick up playing in his place when he has been playing up front.

Part of the problem lies with Arteta's historial reluctance to widen the overall experience of the squad, hence in this type of scenario he can't turn to, for example, Kabia or Butler-Oyedeji instead of Saka et al because he wouldn't even give them minutes when we were 7 goals to the good against PSV, so if he wants to change a game he's stuck with the usual suspects.

But I'm surprised you complain at his bringing them on given you also express disappointment at not winning the game.

I didn't like Partey at RB (for it was there that he was played, not LB...) but we're slightly stuck for alternatives given the above plus injuries.

That's why for me it's playing Martinelli that stands out - we have an obvious alternative in Sterling yet he wasn't used to rest Martinelli, who instead nearly had his leg broken in what should have been a red-card tackle (and would no doubt have been if it had been the other way round).

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Part of the problem lies with Arteta's historial reluctance to widen the overall experience of the squad, hence in this type of scenario he can't turn to, for example, Kabia or Butler-Oyedeji instead of Saka et al because he wouldn't even give them minutes when we were 7 goals to the good against PSV, so if he wants to change a game he's stuck with the usual suspects.

But I'm surprised you complain at his bringing them on given you also express disappointment at not winning the game.

I didn't like Partey at RB (for it was there that he was played, not LB...) but we're slightly stuck for alternatives given the above plus injuries.

That's why for me it's playing Martinelli that stands out - we have an obvious alternative in Sterling yet he wasn't used to rest Martinelli, who instead nearly had his leg broken in what should have been a red-card tackle (and would no doubt have been if it had been the other way round).

Martinelli needed the game time (though in hindsight it didn't improve him at all).

He is and has always been a confidence player. If you noticed against Real, he was hardly successful beating his man. However when he noticed this early on, he chose wisely to concentrate more on ball retention and trying to get into spaces when his marker was off. It was one of the most matured performances from him I'd ever seen.

I am guessing the plan was give him simpler opposition that he'd be able to beat and maybe even get a confidence goal, but playing him next to Trossard neutered that.

As for not taking the league seriously, most teams that win the CL still do well in their leagues. We can count on one hand in the last 3 decades teams that won the CL and decided to treat most of their league games with levity.

Its not an all or nothing as there is no guarantee that a fresh team, without a winning streak in their league will be confident enough to overcome adversity and win the top trophy. History shows us its usually the other way round.

[IBK]

Part of the problem lies with Arteta's historial reluctance to widen the overall experience of the squad, hence in this type of scenario he can't turn to, for example, Kabia or Butler-Oyedeji instead of Saka et al because he wouldn't even give them minutes when we were 7 goals to the good against PSV, so if he wants to change a game he's stuck with the usual suspects.

But I'm surprised you complain at his bringing them on given you also express disappointment at not winning the game.

I didn't like Partey at RB (for it was there that he was played, not LB...) but we're slightly stuck for alternatives given the above plus injuries.

That's why for me it's playing Martinelli that stands out - we have an obvious alternative in Sterling yet he wasn't used to rest Martinelli, who instead nearly had his leg broken in what should have been a red-card tackle (and would no doubt have been if it had been the other way round).

My point about Partey (yes - at RB sorry) was that it was a risk rather than anything else. Not going to be over critical of Arteta's decision to start him given our lack of options here, and the fact that he scored our only goal.

My disappointment at the result derives from the fact that we were playing fine with our starters, and the multiple subs disrupted the team's rhythm. Also for me it seemed as though even with the subs we were playing (understandably perhaps) more with a mind on tomorrow's game and not fully committed to getting the win, so better to have rested MLS, Odegard and Saka. Plus the fact that we didn't defend particularly well for Brentford's goal.

Agreed re Martinelli though. We are fortunate that he wasn't injured badly.

[HCZ_Reborn]

My point about Partey (yes - at RB sorry) was that it was a risk rather than anything else. Not going to be over critical of Arteta's decision to start him given our lack of options here, and the fact that he scored our only goal.

My disappointment at the result derives from the fact that we were playing fine with our starters, and the multiple subs disrupted the team's rhythm. Also for me it seemed as though even with the subs we were playing (understandably perhaps) more with a mind on tomorrow's game and not fully committed to getting the win, so better to have rested MLS, Odegard and Saka. Plus the fact that we didn't defend particularly well for Brentford's goal.

Agreed re Martinelli though. We are fortunate that he wasn't injured badly.

I agree with you about the timing of the substitutions, I foolishly thought bringing on the first team players would sure things up but it did just disrupt things when to that point our play had been decent.


As for Partey at right back, well I don’t think anyone is in any doubt about how I feel about him playing there. But I think him playing there as well as Rice playing full stop was due to White picking up a knock in training, and given Timber also needed resting after midweek it seemed to me anyway as being a result of restricted choice

[IBK]

I agree with you about the timing of the substitutions, I foolishly thought bringing on the first team players would sure things up but it did just disrupt things when to that point our play had been decent.


As for Partey at right back, well I don’t think anyone is in any doubt about how I feel about him playing there. But I think him playing there as well as Rice playing full stop was due to White picking up a knock in training, and given Timber also needed resting after midweek it seemed to me anyway as being a result of restricted choice

Yep - Hobson's choice re Partey, I guess. Praying that he is OK for tomorrow.

[Mac76]

My point about Partey (yes - at RB sorry) was that it was a risk rather than anything else. Not going to be over critical of Arteta's decision to start him given our lack of options here, and the fact that he scored our only goal.

My disappointment at the result derives from the fact that we were playing fine with our starters, and the multiple subs disrupted the team's rhythm. Also for me it seemed as though even with the subs we were playing (understandably perhaps) more with a mind on tomorrow's game and not fully committed to getting the win, so better to have rested MLS, Odegard and Saka. Plus the fact that we didn't defend particularly well for Brentford's goal.

Agreed re Martinelli though. We are fortunate that he wasn't injured badly.

TBH there's an argument that says, particularly in Saka's case, that he needs some minutes to get back to his best and I've some sympathy for that, despite being at the front of the queue of those saying that in general Arteta overplays him

Clearly the subs were lined up when we were 0-0 and he was bringing them on to get the breakthrough, but not for the first time this season (Brighton) he just carried on with planned subs even though the game state had changed.

As for Partey, I agree and thinking about it there was a lad called Josh Nicholls who played at RB pre-season and was, I thought, very good, maybe not quite as much as MLS but then that's an unfair comparison given how he's taken to first-team football like a duck to water

However Arteta's duly left him out all season, hence no minutes, hence him not being an option when he'd have been useful - so frustrating, I really get annoyed that Arteta doesn't bring younger players on more - if I was a manager I'd be rotating and using different combinations all the time and giving younger players minutes whenever I could, it's the only way to know what they can do

[IBK]

TBH there's an argument that says, particularly in Saka's case, that he needs some minutes to get back to his best and I've some sympathy for that, despite being at the front of the queue of those saying that in general Arteta overplays him

Clearly the subs were lined up when we were 0-0 and he was bringing them on to get the breakthrough, but not for the first time this season (Brighton) he just carried on with planned subs even though the game state had changed.

As for Partey, I agree and thinking about it there was a lad called Josh Nicholls who played at RB pre-season and was, I thought, very good, maybe not quite as much as MLS but then that's an unfair comparison given how he's taken to first-team football like a duck to water

However Arteta's duly left him out all season, hence no minutes, hence him not being an option when he'd have been useful - so frustrating, I really get annoyed that Arteta doesn't bring younger players on more - if I was a manager I'd be rotating and using different combinations all the time and giving younger players minutes whenever I could, it's the only way to know what they can do

Nailed that reply Mate.

Good point re Saka, and yes I understand Arteta wanting him to try to regain a little match sharpness (that is clearly a bit lacking - hence his missed big goal opportunity). your highlighted line encapsulates Arteta's error nicely.

..And I agree with your point re Josh Nicholls too - albeit that Arteta will point to Partey's goal.

[Mac76]

Nailed that reply Mate.

Good point re Saka, and yes I understand Arteta wanting him to try to regain a little match sharpness (that is clearly a bit lacking - hence his missed big goal opportunity). your highlighted line encapsulates Arteta's error nicely.

..And I agree with your point re Josh Nicholls too - albeit that Arteta will point to Partey's goal.