IK people go on about too many defenders, and LBs especially, but this makes a lot of sense, we actually only have one player who can play LB so need cover there, plus we need to save Gabriel from playing so many minutes.
I'd be sorry to see Kiwior go but I get he will want regular first team football and if it means offloading Zin at the same time I'm sold
Also agree with moving Calafiori more centrally, he can't defend at LB for sure.
https://fresharsenal.com/report-arse...-jakub-kiwior/
I think Calafiori can do a job at both centre back and left back. We absolutely don’t need defenders.
This is nothing more than a continuation of Arteta’s Goldilocks obsession with the left back position. Arguably every single penny of money spent needs to go to improving attack, we don’t just need a finisher we need a dribbler and technician.
I say that arguably Liverpool have improved an area of the pitch that less needed improving than other areas (such as defence) but imagine us spending proper money on an attacking midfielder.
It was a good, long read and thanks for sharing.Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
But I also do agree with KSE that his writeup was a bit tainted by his bias, but funnily not for Sesko, it was the extreme Havertz loving that made me wonder if I should take this guy seriously, if he's an Arsenal fan and really meant what he wrote.
To be clear, he suggested that Havertz is the superior player to both Sesko and Gyokeres and he kept on working on the assumption that Havertz would play a key role in the team and the other striker would be secondary....which by now you should know I (and a lot of others) find laughable.
Also for your point on the metrics, I think both you and KSE got your reading of it wrong. The pie charts cleary showed that Gyokeres was the superior player on a head to head in the 3 categories he used when compared to the likes of Sesko, Ekitike, Samu and Watkins. Only Isak and Alvarez compared favourably with Gyokeres in any of the categories.
He obviously ignored the stats to push his preference for Sesko, however we all do so, especially if we are convinced we've seen something that other people or stats may not be able to discern. Probably that Pinock test, as he feels Sesko scores highly in it.
For those who can't be bothered to read it , he feels we should consider how well our striker would be able to bully and standup to EPL defenders when it come to physicality, which is where he beleieves Sesko excels by his mere presence. Really his Pinnock test is just code to hide he's a Haaland fanboy.
Now at a point I also felt, like Arteta clearly does, that having tall athletic players that can win duels would tremendously help our team. But funnily, it's the author's crush, Havertz, that has kind of revealed that it isn't really as key as I thought, especially for a striker.
Now think about it. Most of the time when the ball is played to Havertz, he wins the first ball. Aerially or on the ground, Havertz usually gets a touch and I'm sure will beat almost all the strikers mentioned for the touches he takes on the ball when it's actually played to him. However if the defender happens to beat him, he tries harder than other players to win it back immediately. This is the clear skillset where Havertz excels compared to most players in general IMO.
The thing is, what does he do with the ball once he's won it? I recall the usual tame shot or clumsy touches that ensure the defender has the chance to win it back from him again. The 2 previous scenarios are things I tend to look past, but what really irks me with Havertz is when he does the 3rd thing (which as far as I'm concerned is the most damaging), which is to try and play in someone else or hold the ball long enough to play in someone else. This pisses me off royally and is the main reason I wonder how anyone who watches football properly would consider Havertz as being a proper long term alternative as your no 9.
Which finally leads me to something that IMO should be the most telling quality of whatever striker we get.....and I'll use another member of our team to illustrate this.
Saka is our most dangerous player and goal threat. He doesn't have the typical physique to pass the Pinock test but holds himself well in duels with defenders, who usually double up on him. The thing is, how many times has Saka got into the box and we shouted "you shouldn't have done that Saka"....and I mean the 3 previous things I mentioned regarding Havertz...if Saka takes a shot, it because a shot was on. If Saka tries to dribble or beat his man, it usually because he had to. If Saka holds on to the ball and delays shooting, trying to play someone in, it's because he clearly sees a player is in a more advantageous position to score....Saka never plays people in for the sake of playing people in, if he smells blood, he goes for the kill. His decision making abilities, especially on whether to hit the kill switch or not, are exceptional and usually above reproach.
This is something so many of our attackers suffer from, poor decisions in the last third.....just picture all those moments of Odegaard dithering or taking to many touches when he should be hitting the ball instinctively. While Martnelli and the previous version of Trossard share that ability to smell blood and ignore others when they see minute openings....they both aren't as good as Saka in execution or when it comes to realising sometimes that minute opening might be better served holding the ball just a little longer to play someone coming in because they are in a better position and actually likely to score.
So in short, what I am saying is our striker needs to quickly learn to instinctively make the right decisions. His shots might be tame, his dribble forced, but it should be clear that these actions were above reproach, literally the only sensible thing he could do in that instance. If he makes a hurried shot it because he knows there is no one coming to help him, which is something Havertz needs to learn is applicable to us 80% of the time . Jesus knows this but he ends up always trying to score the most intricate and beautiful goals. Our no 9 needs to recognise, that with the way we play, he is no Clark Kent, he is the Superman of the story and there are no members of the JL coming to bail him out or put the ball in the net.
This is what 100% convinces me about Gyokeres when you see him play, he understands the burden he is under in Sporting and carries it without thinking twice. His decision making is impressive from what I've seen and I believe his vast experience has probably helped mould him into this.
Unfortunately Sesko has never carried any team single handedly, neither his club side nor his national side. Though I rate him as the better all round talent, he is another WIP (his pie chart screams this) and it makes little sense to go for him because you are looking for a playground bully which EPL defenders have already adapted too and is now " sooo last season" (in my best sorority voice)
The solution is staring us right in the face and IMO we don't need to complicate things by thinking long term when we can just go for it now. Sesko is a project that we can't afford to entertain at the moment, mainly because we've been dilly dallying on the cusp for ages.
Last edited by 21_GOONER_SALUTE; 13-06-2025 at 05:28 PM.
It would be easier just to say I disagree with your conclusionIt was a good, long read and thanks for sharing.
But I also do agree with KSE that his writeup was a bit tainted by his bias, but funnily not for Sesko, it was the extreme Havertz loving that made me wonder if I should take this guy seriously, if he's an Arsenal fan and really meant what he wrote.
To be clear, he suggested that Havertz is the superior player to both Sesko and Gyokeres and he kept on working on the assumption that Havertz would play a key role in the team and the other striker would be secondary....which by now you should know I (and a lot of others) find laughable.
Also for your point on the metrics, I think both you and KSE got your reading of it wrong. The pie charts cleary showed that Gyokeres was the superior player on a head to head in the 3 categories he used when compared to the likes of Sesko, Ekitike, Samu and Watkins. Only Isak and Alvarez compared favourably with Gyokeres in any of the categories.
He obviously ignored the stats to push his preference for Sesko, however we all do so, especially if we are convinced we've seen something that other people or stats may not be able to discern. Probably that Pinock test, as he feels Sesko scores highly in it.
For those who can't be bothered to read it , he feels we should consider how well our striker would be able to bully and standup to EPL defenders when it come to physicality, which is where he beleieves Sesko excels by his mere presence. Really his Pinnock test is just code to hide he's a Haaland fanboy.
Now at a point I also felt, like Arteta clearly does, that having tall athletic players that can win duels would tremendously help our team. But funnily, it's the author's crush, Havertz, that has kind of revealed that it isn't really as key as I thought, especially for a striker.
Now think about it. Most of the time when the ball is played to Havertz, he wins the first ball. Aerially or on the ground, Havertz usually gets a touch and I'm sure will beat almost all the strikers mentioned for the touches he takes on the ball when it's actually played to him. However if the defender happens to beat him, he tries harder than other players to win it back immediately. This is the clear skillset where Havertz excels compared to most players in general IMO.
The thing is, what does he do with the ball once he's won it? I recall the usual tame shot or clumsy touches that ensure the defender has the chance to win it back from him again. The 2 previous scenarios are things I tend to look past, but what really irks me with Havertz is when he does the 3rd thing (which as far as I'm concerned is the most damaging), which is to try and play in someone else or hold the ball long enough to play in someone else. This pisses me off royally and is the main reason I wonder how anyone who watches football properly would consider Havertz as being a proper long term alternative as your no 9.
Which finally leads me to something that IMO should be the most telling quality of whatever striker we get.....and I'll use another member of our team to illustrate this.
Saka is our most dangerous player and goal threat. He doesn't have the typical physique to pass the Pinock test but holds himself well in duels with defenders, who usually double up on him. The thing is, how many times has Saka got into the box and we shouted "you shouldn't have done that Saka"....and I mean the 3 previous things I mentioned regarding Havertz...if Saka takes a shot, it because a shot was on. If Saka tries to dribble or beat his man, it usually because he had to. If Saka holds on to the ball and delays shooting, trying to play someone in, it's because he clearly sees a player is in a more advantageous position to score....Saka never plays people in for the sake of playing people in, if he smells blood, goes for the kill. His decision making abilities, especially on whether to hit the kill switch or not, are exceptional and usually above reproach.
This is something so many of our attackers suffer from, poor decisions in the last third.....just picture all those moments of Odegaard dithering or taking to many touches when he should be hitting the ball instinctively. While Martnelli and the previous version of Trossard share that ability to smell blood and ignore others when they see minute openings....they both aren't as good as Saka in execution or when it comes to realising sometimes that minute opening might be better served holding the ball just a little longer to play someone coming in because they are in a better position and actually likely to score.
So in short, what I am saying is our striker needs to quickly learn to instinctively make the right decisions. His shots might be tame, his dribble forced, but it should be clear that these actions were above reproach, literally the only sensible thing he could do in that instance. If he makes a hurried shot it because he knows there is no one coming to help him, which is something Havertz needs to learn is applicable to us 80% of the time . Jesus knows this but he ends up always trying to score the most intricate and beautiful goals. Our no 9 needs to recognise, that with the way we play, he is no Clark Kent, he is the Superman of the story and there are no members of the JL coming to bail him out or put the ball in the net.
This is what 100% convinces me about Gyokeres when you see him play, he understands the burden he is under in Sporting and carries it without thinking twice. His decision making is impressive from what I've seen and I believe his vast experience has probably helped mould him into this.
Unfortunately Sesko has never carried any team single handedly, neither his club side nor his national side. Though I rate him as the better all round talent, he is another WIP (his pie chart screams this) and it makes little sense to go for him because you are looking for a playground bully which EPL defenders have already adapted too and is now so "last season" (in my best sorority voice
The solution is staring us right in the face and IMO we don't need to complicate things by thinking long term when we can just go for it now. Sesko is a project that we can't afford to entertain at the moment, mainly because we are so close already.
I’m more of an admirer of Havertz than you are, but yeah even I thought it laid it on thick. However I do think it’s not entirely untrue to say that he’s been a decent player for us. He’s managed goals of all different kinds and as frustrating as he can be, his work rate is phenomenal as is the way at times he’s able to hold up the ball to allow others in. Whilst Musiala and Wirtz are clearly big stars for Germany, I thought Havertz was also a pivotal part of that German side in the Euros (I think they were unlucky to go out to Spain).
Was he worth the money we paid for him, well it’s all relative isn’t it. It’s a low bar but he’s clearly been worth the money we paid for him more than say the money we paid for Nicolas Pepe.
If we had our time again I wouldn’t have signed him because I think there are better players we could have signed for the money. But I like him, his attitude is good, after the first few months at the club he stopped being the wandering Jew and I saw him have real impact on games.
Last edited by HCZ_Reborn; 13-06-2025 at 05:32 PM.
Sky is reporting from another source that we've made £55m bid for Gyokores which is inclusive of add ons.
Apparently both of our top targets are in the same boat. They had agreements with their clubs that they could leave for less than their release clause but both clubs have reneged....sounds a bit familiar to an argument I had earlier.
Anyway, Sesko is the one in the worst position as he was stupid enough to sign a new contract last summer when he knew we'd been chasing him since January.
Both players are reportedly unhappy with their respective clubs, with Gyokores removing Sporting from his social media and threatening to go on strike.... he probably has the most to lose if he doesn't get his move soon.
I just hope this is not another red herring situation like the Watkins bid and we go all out and do what it takes to get the right man/men.
Gyokeres situation seems pretty complicated, a lot of clauses, I like the one where the agent is already making money even if Sporting turn down our reported bid
https://www.record.pt/futebol/futebo...quesPrincipais
https://www.goal.com/en/lists/sporti...24b617cca19155
The quotes above are from the Sporting Chairman.. now these are the kind of ruthless suits I remember fondly."I can guarantee that Viktor Gyokeres will not leave for €60m plus 10m because I never promised him that," Varandas is quoted as saying by Record. "[But] to this day, Sporting has not had an offer for Viktor Gyokeres, neither today nor last season.
"It was agreed that Sporting would not demand the release clause at the end of the following season, especially because he was going to be 27. Then, we knew Viktor's dream of going to a club where he could fight for the Champions League and we have common sense."
Last edited by 21_GOONER_SALUTE; 14-06-2025 at 09:43 AM.
While i'd prefer Gyokeres, if Sesko was announced today i'd still welcome it, my big fear is we'll get no-one and end up taking Eddie back on loan on the last day of the window...
We'll definitely get someone....but just like you pointed out its extremely possible we don't get any of our top targets and instead make do with a laughable and overvalued compromise.
Gyokeres would prefer a move to us rather than United.
If there’s a chance we could sign him and Sesko then I would definitely go for it.
It seems Bayern have also decided to show interest in Sesko.
Now that he is looking more unattainable, it'll probably make Arteta want him even more!
My preference remain Gyokores, but I'd also be glad if we got both as I've maintained for ages that we need 2 proper quality strikers......and guess what, nothing stops us from selling one of them later, if things don't go to plan.
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