Match Reaction: Bayern Munich 5 Arsenal 1

[Ollie the Optimist]

For me, and I've held this belief since the start of the season, the league is a better and more important trophy to win this year then Europe. Don't get me wrong, I would love to win the champions league, but the league would mean so much more given we would have to perform at a high level for the whole season. Champions league is ultimately a cup competition where you can play badly and still win it (chelsea in 2012). The game last night wasn't a surprise we lost, but it was a shame we lost so heavily, however at half time i would have taken off Ozil and Sanchez, we need them for the league, no point wasting them in a dead half of football.

I thought for the first half we played well, Ozil looked superb to start with and his goal should have stood. I think we still would have lost, but his goal came off his shoulder and it should have stood, the referee overall was suspect. Campbell was booked and 5 minutes later Lahm makes an identical tackle and nothing given. Bayern are the best team in the world right now, they have thrashed many a good team over the last few seasons. If we win the league, and i really think we can and probably will, then no one will care about these games.

[Niall_Quinn]

For me, and I've held this belief since the start of the season, the league is a better and more important trophy to win this year then Europe. Don't get me wrong, I would love to win the champions league, but the league would mean so much more given we would have to perform at a high level for the whole season. Champions league is ultimately a cup competition where you can play badly and still win it (chelsea in 2012). The game last night wasn't a surprise we lost, but it was a shame we lost so heavily, however at half time i would have taken off Ozil and Sanchez, we need them for the league, no point wasting them in a dead half of football.

I thought for the first half we played well, Ozil looked superb to start with and his goal should have stood. I think we still would have lost, but his goal came off his shoulder and it should have stood, the referee overall was suspect. Campbell was booked and 5 minutes later Lahm makes an identical tackle and nothing given. Bayern are the best team in the world right now, they have thrashed many a good team over the last few seasons. If we win the league, and i really think we can and probably will, then no one will care about these games.

It's not the result, it's the manner of the performance. The absence of any method from the manager to try and deal with adversity. And it came on the heels of another tragic performance in the Carling Cup. Doesn't matter much if we are in or out of that cup either, but the manner of the defeat mattered. People should care a lot about these games because they explain in detail why we won't be winning any title.

[Letters]

And it came on the heels of another tragic performance in the Carling Cup.

It actually came on the heels of a very good result at Swansea which keeps us in the hunt, for now.
It's results like that, and others in recent league form like the Utd one when they were top and we leapfrogged them which make me believe we have a chance.

People should care a lot about these games because they explain in detail why we won't be winning any title.

Not really, our league form has been much better than our Cup form. You can go on about momentum but poor Cup results have been followed by good League ones so far, there's been no obvious connection. We're not going to be playing anyone of Bayern's quality again. After the Liverpool game you were lamenting the fact we were 5 points off the pace already and it would be 10 points off in the next 4 games and that would be the end of our challenge (well, someone else did but you strongly agreed). So much for that prediction. Will we win the league? I don't know, we'll find out in May. But recent league results have indicated we've got a chance. And it's not just a 'few wins', this good run extends way back into last season. We're calendar year champions so far and while that's as worthwhile as the top 4 trophy it shows a long, consistent run of form good enough to challenge.

Injuries is the thing that worries me most, we've shown we can win important games and be consistent over a long period. A few key injuries - and with our record that seems worryingly likely - and we'll be stuffed.

[Niall_Quinn]

We're calendar year champions so far and while that's as worthwhile as the top 4 trophy it shows a long, consistent run of form good enough to challenge.

In fact it doesn't show that at all. What it really shows is that when it really matters we don't drive it home. And it wasn't a good performance against Swansea, it was half a half decent performance with a couple of cameos from players we finally spent money on. Against a slightly better team we would have lost that game. That's what you get with Wenger's teams, the balance is just about tipped in favour of a win but when we lose it's straight over a cliff. Add in whatever fucked up training and fitness methods we are inflicting on the players and it's all way too hair trigger to build the sort of authority we'll need to win a title, let alone retain it. If some fans are ignoring these very poor cup performances which have come about as a result of spectacularly poor management then I hope at least people inside the club are paying more attention. What am I saying? Those bastards are falling over themselves to offer him a new contract based on what? Nothing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Whatever else, we better beat those spuds.

[Letters]

Whatever else, we better beat those spuds.

I think that's something we can all agree with.

Do that and I won't be crying about losing to a very good Bayern side. All about the league this year, for me. The CL...well, that would be super-awesome but I think last night was an indication we're not quite at that level yet.

We're doing what we need to do so far to keep in the hunt for the title, for now that's good enough. I'm not happy about our CL form but so far it hasn't spilled over into league form. It would be typical of us to go and qualify anyway now.

[Power n Glory]

It's not the result, it's the manner of the performance. The absence of any method from the manager to try and deal with adversity. And it came on the heels of another tragic performance in the Carling Cup. Doesn't matter much if we are in or out of that cup either, but the manner of the defeat mattered. People should care a lot about these games because they explain in detail why we won't be winning any title.

I switched off after the 3rd goal and just caught the highlights again. I don't think we approached the game any differently to the first tie. I think the difference is in personnel. We lost Kos and Bellerin plus you underestimate the importance of Theo and having a pacey threat up front that can draw defenders and lead the line on counters. We sat back deep again, didn't press but we made mistakes and were punished.

[Niall_Quinn]

I switched off after the 3rd goal and just caught the highlights again. I don't think we approached the game any differently to the first tie. I think the difference is in personnel. We lost Kos and Bellerin plus you underestimate the importance of Theo and having a pacey threat up front that can draw defenders and lead the line on counters. We sat back deep again, didn't press but we made mistakes and were punished.

Precisely my point. If we had a manager with a bit of craft we'd have factored in the change in personnel and maybe not done something incredibly stupid like playing Campbell and Debuchy against pace. Nothing against Campbell because he tried, but he couldn't get near his man all night. Wenger eventually cottoned on after an hour of being battered. I'd like to see us hire a manager who can figure these things out before the game kicks off. And Bif completely isolated up top? How did the manager think that was going to play out? We didn't have Theo's pace, but we had Alexis.

[Power n Glory]

Precisely my point. If we had a manager with a bit of craft we'd have factored in the change in personnel and maybe not done something incredibly stupid like playing Campbell and Debuchy against pace. Nothing against Campbell because he tried, but he couldn't get near his man all night. Wenger eventually cottoned on after an hour of being battered. I'd like to see us hire a manager who can figure these things out before the game kicks off. And Bif completely isolated up top? How did the manager think that was going to play out? We didn't have Theo's pace, but we had Alexis.

I think with the amount of injuries we had, we were hamstrung with the team selection. Also, the team didn’t turn up. Too many mistakes and they didn’t fancy it. It just depends on how the feel on the night and I think that’s something Wenger has to address. He can’t leave it up to the players to mentally prepare themselves for every game because they’ll check out. I heard he went into one at half time but too little too late.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think with the amount of injuries we had, we were hamstrung with the team selection. Also, the team didn’t turn up. Too many mistakes and they didn’t fancy it. It just depends on how the feel on the night and I think that’s something Wenger has to address. He can’t leave it up to the players to mentally prepare themselves for every game because they’ll check out. I heard he went into one at half time but too little too late.

I accept we had injuries (not that I accept whatever it is going on behind the scenes that leaves our players so vulnerable to these repetitive injury crises). What I don't accept is how little preparation and tactical planning went into that match. How hard could it have been to predict we'd be up against it on the night? So you have to plan for that and look to stifle the opposition so you can get a foothold in the game. Then you have to have a means of inflicting damage on the opposition when you get the rare opportunity. Wenger didn't do any of that. Or if he did then the players ignored him.

I didn't expect to win the game beforehand, knowing that Bellerin, Theo and Ox were both out so we'd have little pace. I knew for a fact we'd lose when I saw the team selection. We knew Bayern had very pacey options on both sides. So you have to get Gibbs into the mix. Who couldn't have predicted an already out of form Debuchy would be destroyed? Who couldn't have predicted Campbell didn't have the pace or experience to deal with the threats? This was bloody obvious stuff. The you play a slow tempo and you don't press so what did Bayern do? They just passed around us all night. They looked great because we let them play their game. This was no Plan B on our part, it was the stupidity of thinking that what worked 2 weeks ago could work again even though we didn't have the tools to make it work.

Alexis should have played through the centre. Bif had nothing to keep their defenders occupied. At least Alexis would have offered a threat and forced Bayern to be a bit more cautious. Instead we invited their back four to play rather than defend. They actually weren't that great defending and we passed through them a few times. What more could we have done if we'd have put them under more pressure? Alexis is the ideal player for that. Pace, endless stamina and a willingness to run with the ball and shoot when he gets the chance. Instead he was out of the game, effectively bypassed as Bayern waltzed up the pitch and through our midfield. How Wenger didn't react to that is staggering.

Wenger then blames the defence when it's he who set things up to give Bayern an easy ride and ensure the pressure was always on our back line. If we'd have come out of that with a 2-0 loss on the back of a solid, battling performance I'd have said okay, we were up against the odds and we did our best. But to be hammered like that when there are steps we could have taken but didn't take, you have to criticise the manager. His half-arsed approach to this competition is a joke. Every little thing counts at this level but he's not just getting the little things wrong, he's making huge errors on a regular basis and it's 100% his fault we are at the foot of the group sweating on dropping into the dreaded Europa League. 100% his fault. Ridiculous fuck-ups like selecting Ospina. What the fuck goes on in the guy's head?

Now we go into the derby match having to drag ourselves off the floor again. We still have the same injury problems but these are now compounded by a good arse kicking. We make it harder for ourselves all the time and the joke is Wenger thinks he's making it easier by selectively chucking matches and expecting his antics to have no psychological effects. We aren't up against Bayern, we should still have enough to win this. But if we go into the game with the same lack of planning, ambition, drive and desire as midweek then we're fucked. It's Wenger's job to have this team properly prepared when they step out on the pitch and at this level there are no valid excuses for him not doing that job properly. And if we don't have the resources to compete across all competitions then that's his fault too. He has everything he needs to get the job done, including money in the last few seasons. His excuses are bullshit.