Has Wenger faiiled to develop our young players?

[hobson's choice]

I think it's a fair point to raise. With the exception of Ramsey who is obviously a better player now, I don't think we have any other players schooled by Wenger that look better 3-5 years down the line than when they entered the first team set up.

Give Wenger an ordinary player beyond his formative years and he'll most likely elevate their game to a new level, not sure he has that midas touch with youngsters who may not necessarily be the most naturally gifted and require a lot of coaching.

It will be interesting to see how Bellerin turns out in a few years.

Other than goal scoring how has Ramsey improved as CM, not a particular good passer, lacks discipline, cant control a game. Doesnt understand how to set an attack from the CM position at all. Our midfield has look downright garbage at times when he's part of the midfield 2.

[mastermind84]

Other than goal scoring how has Ramsey improved as CM, not a particular good passer, lacks discipline, cant control a game. Doesnt understand how to set an attack from the CM position at all. Our midfield has look downright garbage at times when he's part of the midfield 2.

Ramsey aint been that good (altho he was really good against Stoke) but Flamini is the bigger problem. He has no legs and is afraid of the ball.

[Power n Glory]

Other than goal scoring how has Ramsey improved as CM, not a particular good passer, lacks discipline, cant control a game. Doesnt understand how to set an attack from the CM position at all. Our midfield has look downright garbage at times when he's part of the midfield 2.

I fear Ramsey is following in the same footsteps as Cesc Fabregas in terms of development. Different players with different attributes but it seems as though all the focus on their development went on scoring more goals and everything else got pushed to the wayside. Cesc was a great passer and could control the game from the midfield. He should have been a Xavi or Pirlo. His biggest weakness was the defensive discipline but Wenger had no interest in tightening that part of his game up it seems. Instead of keeping him as a CM, teaching discipline in his movement, working hard to win the ball back, he pushed him up field to a number 10 role so he could get more goals and not have to defend. So that effected how we controlled games because he wasn’t further down the pitch dictating the tempo of a game. Neglecting that side of his game effected his career at Barca and Pep didn’t trust him as CM so he’d play as a striker!

Now I see a similar pattern with Ramsey. As you rightly point out, it’s just the goal scoring that’s improved and everything else about his game hasn’t. He’s not a good passer of the ball and he has no positional awareness. You’re right about him not knowing how to set up an attack from the CM and that’s why Rosicky and Cazorla are so much better at it than him. But it seems like we have no interest in developing that side of his game. It’s why I question him getting played on the wing and Wenger praising the quality of his runs. That’s great but can we at least get him functioning as a CM that can control the flow of the game? He has a terrific engine and not afraid of making a tackle. I worry about his development because it looks like a similar pattern.

Way too much focus on scoring goals for some players. You only have to look at Ozil’s comments today about adding more goals to his game. Or take Walcott as another example where all wing play and build has been neglected and he’s just allowed to hang on the shoulder of defenders making runs all day instead of actually getting in the ball and dribbling. The balance just isn’t right when you look at it.

[Özim]

I fear Ramsey is following in the same footsteps as Cesc Fabregas in terms of development. Different players with different attributes but it seems as though all the focus on their development went on scoring more goals and everything else got pushed to the wayside. Cesc was a great passer and could control the game from the midfield. He should have been a Xavi or Pirlo. His biggest weakness was the defensive discipline but Wenger had no interest in tightening that part of his game up it seems. Instead of keeping him as a CM, teaching discipline in his movement, working hard to win the ball back, he pushed him up field to a number 10 role so he could get more goals and not have to defend. So that effected how we controlled games because he wasn’t further down the pitch dictating the tempo of a game. Neglecting that side of his game effected his career at Barca and Pep didn’t trust him as CM so he’d play as a striker!

Now I see a similar pattern with Ramsey. As you rightly point out, it’s just the goal scoring that’s improved and everything else about his game hasn’t. He’s not a good passer of the ball and he has no positional awareness. You’re right about him not knowing how to set up an attack from the CM and that’s why Rosicky and Cazorla are so much better at it than him. But it seems like we have no interest in developing that side of his game. It’s why I question him getting played on the wing and Wenger praising the quality of his runs. That’s great but can we at least get him functioning as a CM that can control the flow of the game? He has a terrific engine and not afraid of making a tackle. I worry about his development because it looks like a similar pattern.

Way too much focus on scoring goals for some players. You only have to look at Ozil’s comments today about adding more goals to his game. Or take Walcott as another example where all wing play and build has been neglected and he’s just allowed to hang on the shoulder of defenders making runs all day instead of actually getting in the ball and dribbling. The balance just isn’t right when you look at it.

Wenger has no interest in the defensive side of the game, he just thinks about the offensive side, his comments a number of years ago about more points for goals highlight this, Barcelona turning up with their tippy tappy football many years ago was the worst thing that could have happened to us because Wenger has taken this as the blueprint and put all of our focus on attack (although they also had a very hard working team, even if they did look vulnerable defensively at times).

Football is about more than attacking, a solid defensive unit is sometimes required to snatch results when you're not playing well. The irony is offensively we're nowhere near as good as we could be either.

[Power n Glory]

It seems that way. You can see a pattern in the sort of young players he's helped develop. It's fine to focus on a player like Ozil getting goals although I find it odd that Ozil has spoken out in public to contradict Wenger. See below.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/i-do...s-my-game-ozil

[Letters]

Gabriel, Chambers and Cech are 3 of his most recent signings.
I generally agree he is more attach minded but he's signed a 'keeper and 2 defensive players in the last year or so.

[Power n Glory]

Gabriel, Chambers and Cech are 3 of his most recent signings.
I generally agree he is more attach minded but he's signed a 'keeper and 2 defensive players in the last year or so.

We're not talking about signings or recent signings. It's about development.

[Letters]

I was responding to Zim's assertion that Wenger has "no interest" in defence.

[Power n Glory]

I was responding to Zim's assertion that Wenger has "no interest" in defence.

And he's responding to what I said about developed players lacking defensive discipline. Keep up, lad. This isn't about signings.

[Özim]

I was responding to Zim's assertion that Wenger has "no interest" in defence.

Our keepers were a disaster zone, he'd have been foolish not to sign a new keeper as they were costing us points, Chambers is a kid who let's be honest isn't great at the moment (not too sure what made us sign him as he wasn't one of the standout players at Southampton), I wouldn't call signing him as a sign he's trying to improve the defence more that he wants another project. Gabriel is good I'll give you that, but we were short of CB's so needed some cover.

I'm not saying he doesn't sign defensive players, every team needs 4 defenders a goalkeeper etc etc more that it's not something he focusses on in training or in developing players. He made Gibbs a full back and the guy was a winger and can't defend for toffee and never has been able to and we've seen little improvement on that side with him.

I just don't think players defensive awareness improves under Wenger because he put so much focus on attacking, even our full backs have to roam forward and attack. The comment PNG makes about Ramsey and goals is testament to that, he could be a great all round player, instead his primary focus is goals.