Has Wenger faiiled to develop our young players?

[Özim]

Yes, you are wrong.

Suarez? Ibrahimovic? But that may be cheating because they arrived around 19/20 and they're the young import players that haven't come from the academy.

How about Wesley Sneijder? De Jong? Van der Wiel?

Aren't a couple of Spurs players Ajax boys? Van Vaart and Eriksen? If we're going to talk about international players we can throw Blind in their if we're talking Gibbs and Wilshere. Throw Vermaelen in their too.

I'm not saying it's a magical flick of the switch. I'm just wondering why and how we dedicated so much time to come up with nothing. Ajax are committed to producing Dutch players from their academy, so they are slightly restricted in what they can do. But if they do what we have done and import young players from an early age before their 20s, you can see they had two of the best strikers in the world at their club early. We attempt to do the same but nothing comes of players like Vela and Denilson. I'm not even asking why we haven't produced a Messi. I'd be happy if we produced players that Premiership level quality and not Championship. Plenty of other Ajax players I could mention.

Ajax have produced a stream of very good young players since the 90's that's a fact, to this day they still produce some top talent who move on and become top class, to claim otherwise it totally ridiculous.

As for Barca, there's a few other players like Pique, Pedro (you could argue Bellerin) and a few others, but the fact is they also have stacks of money and therefore buy in a lot of top stars thus limiting to some extent the route to the 1st team for young players, we don't have that issue as we've long focussed on young players and allowing them to feature in the 1st team.

[Power n Glory]

Ajax have produced a stream of very good young players since the 90's that's a fact, to this day they still produce some top talent who move on and become top class, to claim otherwise it totally ridiculous.

As for Barca, there's a few other players like Pique, Pedro (you could argue Bellerin) and a few others, but the fact is they also have stacks of money and therefore buy in a lot of top stars thus limiting to some extent the route to the 1st team for young players, we don't have that issue as we've long focussed on young players and allowing them to feature in the 1st team.

It's funny because I was arguing with this same guy about the type of strikers we sign and I questioned why we never signed Suarez from Ajax before Liverpool. Masterminds excuse was the Dutch league and Ajax were shit.

We can extend that further to questioning why is it that Ajax were able to sign Ibrahimovic and Saurez as young players? Did our scouts miss them or not see what they were capable of? We had Ibra here on trail. How comes we end up signing young players that turn out to be so underwhelming? It's not as if we weren't looking for the next big stars at that time. We were poaching the best players from academies across the globe. Taking advantage of 16 year olds turning professional. It's hard to understand why we've been so unlucky. I can understand not producing many talented English local players but we've been poaching the supposedly best players from Spain, Germany, South and Central America, France...we've had scout everywhere so something has gone wrong or we've got some serious bad luck.

Most of the other top teams don't give young players a chance like we do. Mastermind mentions Man Utd but forgets they had Pique and Pogba signed up as young players but never gave them an opportunity. We don't do that. We give our young players chances. Well, most of them. We've got so many, guys like Coquelin and Campbell are discovered late and on the verge of leaving before getting a chance.

[Static]

I think the answer to the question is pretty clear. The answer is a resounding yes. He has failed to teach players the basics of their respective roles.

He is great at improving players who have already learned their trade i.e. the basis of their roles. So expect good things from Elneny, not so much from most of our British core. I actually like Ox, however, with not many experienced heads in the centre of midfield, he may not get the education he truly needs. Santi can help him out but you can't teach the technique that Santi possesses. Nor the ability to work with either foot, that'll come with time, however, how long will the fans bare with someone like Ox?

I think if Pep was to come in, we would see the foundations of our players being built so they wouldn't just be good players on the surface only.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/walc...-deadly-wenger

Walcott has become deadly - Wenger

Arsene Wenger feels Theo Walcott has become a deadly attacker since joining Arsenal from Southampton in 2006.

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger believes Theo Walcott has developed into a lethal finisher during his 10 years at the club.

The 26-year-old joined from Southampton in January 2006 and Wenger has been impressed with the England international's development.

"Theo is very intelligent. He always had pace and his movement off the ball was always perfect. I think he is much more conscious of teamwork and he has improved as well in his finishing," Wenger told Arsenal's official website.

"He is absolutely deadly compared to 10 years ago. He needed many chances to score a goal and he can finish very well. His final ball and his technique are much better.

"Ten years here, that shows as well that he loves Arsenal and I'm convinced he will give us much more in the next five years than the last five because he is a player who is always moving forward and trying to do better. He has a very positive attitude.

"A player like him is very difficult to find and Theo's movement off the ball and intelligence is really his brand and [are part of his] characteristics."

Walcott has netted three goals in 16 Premier League appearances in 2015-16.

I'm a supporter of Walcott and think he has potential but I don't think he has blossomed here at all. Is he more deadly? So it's taken us 10 years to get him to improve his finishing? It's still not at a consistent standard that silences his critics so I'm not sure about that. If he's always had his pace and intelligent movement, what about everything else? He's regressed when it comes to dribbling, passing and assists. Since Wenger's had him studying Ljungberg he's stopped dribbling and coming deep to build up play, take on his man...I'm really not convinced.

I've always maintained we should have trained him as a striker but that opportunity is fading fast.

[Marc Overmars]

It's quite something how little he has kicked on in 10 years.

[Power n Glory]

I really don't know what Wenger is talking about in regards to teamwork. His pass attempt and completion stats are quite bad. I don't think he's improved in that areas at all. 69% pass completion 18/26 against Stoke. That's awful.

Campbell in comparison - 85% 35/41.

Theo hardly touches the ball on the wing these days and we'll be lucky if he completes 20 passes in a game.

[Globalgunner]

It's funny because I was arguing with this same guy about the type of strikers we sign and I questioned why we never signed Suarez from Ajax before Liverpool. Masterminds excuse was the Dutch league and Ajax were shit.

We can extend that further to questioning why is it that Ajax were able to sign Ibrahimovic and Saurez as young players? Did our scouts miss them or not see what they were capable of? We had Ibra here on trail. How comes we end up signing young players that turn out to be so underwhelming? It's not as if we weren't looking for the next big stars at that time. We were poaching the best players from academies across the globe. Taking advantage of 16 year olds turning professional. It's hard to understand why we've been so unlucky. I can understand not producing many talented English local players but we've been poaching the supposedly best players from Spain, Germany, South and Central America, France...we've had scout everywhere so something has gone wrong or we've got some serious bad luck.

Most of the other top teams don't give young players a chance like we do. Mastermind mentions Man Utd but forgets they had Pique and Pogba signed up as young players but never gave them an opportunity. We don't do that. We give our young players chances. Well, most of them. We've got so many, guys like Coquelin and Campbell are discovered late and on the verge of leaving before getting a chance.

It is a matter of record that we tried unsuccessfully to sign Ibra even before he went to Ajax. Something along the lines of "Ibrahimovic does not do trials" and Suarez. Well Wenger was still besotted with Chamak at the time so had no eyes for Suarez. when he finally saw the light he offered £1 above the release clause. Pool pretended it did not exist. I blame Suarez` agent. He must be an illiterate not to know what was in the agreement his player recently signed.

[mastermind84]

Yes, you are wrong.

Suarez? Ibrahimovic? But that may be cheating because they arrived around 19/20 and they're the young import players that haven't come from the academy.

so I feel you are changing things.

For one, Ibra and Suarez were not Ajax products. I think Zlatan arrived at 20, and Suarez was either 20 or 21.

You were talking about teenagers or even academy boys.

Saying that, Zlatan and Suarez went to a finishing school for Ajax.

You were asking for Arsenal to do something along the lines of Ajax '95, and the United class of 1992 and Barcelona where those guys were wholly home grown.

How about Wesley Sneijder? De Jong? Van der Wiel?

Sneijder is the only academy boy that was a top player,but his world class level was for a season or two. van Der Wiel and De Jong were never at that level.

Aren't a couple of Spurs players Ajax boys? Van Vaart and Eriksen? If we're going to talk about international players we can throw Blind in their if we're talking Gibbs and Wilshere. Throw Vermaelen in their too.

none of these guys are world class but they were internationals, and Vermaelen is a damn bum. Eriksen came to Ajax at 18.

Also, The point I conteseted, and what you have now moved the goal posts on, is that its hard as hell to create something like the class of 1992 for UNited, Ajax's 1995 Champions League winners, and the Iniesta/Xav/Messi generation for Barcelona. THAT is difficult. If you wanna just mention young players being at Arsenal and being successful, then Ramsey, Wilshere, even Wojeich are all great examples. It seems your argument is all over the place and not focused.

Ajax are committed to producing Dutch players from their academy, so they are slightly restricted in what they can do. But if they do what we have done and import young players from an early age before their 20s, you can see they had two of the best strikers in the world at their club early. We attempt to do the same but nothing comes of players like Vela and Denilson.

this is why your argument is all over the place. You have no focus. You named about 3 or 4 players that "ajax produced" that were not Dutch.

As for the later half, you named those two while dismissing Theo, Ramsey, Coquelin (who was by luck, but he did go through Arsenal), and Bellerin. Its a nonsense argument.

Even using Vela, we signed him for like 500K and got about 11 million for him. He could not have been that bad, no?

denilson was a player but he lost his confidence.

Youu're using Gibbs and Wilshere as examples to support the fact we've done ok, please.....one is a crock who's not even a particularly good full back (playing for England means nothing these days, nobodies get picked) and the other is another crock who has been overrated from the day he showed up and has done nothing to justify that hype.

great, now what has chelsea done? or liverpool?

It's funny because I was arguing with this same guy about the type of strikers we sign and I questioned why we never signed Suarez from Ajax before Liverpool. Masterminds excuse was the Dutch league and Ajax were shit.

We can extend that further to questioning why is it that Ajax were able to sign Ibrahimovic and Saurez as young players? Did our scouts miss them or not see what they were capable of? We had Ibra here on trail. How comes we end up signing young players that turn out to be so underwhelming? It's not as if we weren't looking for the next big stars at that time. We were poaching the best players from academies across the globe. Taking advantage of 16 year olds turning professional. It's hard to understand why we've been so unlucky. I can understand not producing many talented English local players but we've been poaching the supposedly best players from Spain, Germany, South and Central America, France...we've had scout everywhere so something has gone wrong or we've got some serious bad luck.

Most of the other top teams don't give young players a chance like we do. Mastermind mentions Man Utd but forgets they had Pique and Pogba signed up as young players but never gave them an opportunity. We don't do that. We give our young players chances. Well, most of them. We've got so many, guys like Coquelin and Campbell are discovered late and on the verge of leaving before getting a chance.

I said the Dutch league is shit, tbf. That may have colored the view on Suarez.

Why mention Zlatan? We had him come to the club and could not agree to terms. You act like no effort was made or the club never knew he existed.


and mentioning Pogba and Pique muddles your bad argument even more because you dont acknowledge that we signed Fabregas, ffs.

[mastermind84]

Ajax have produced a stream of very good young players since the 90's that's a fact, to this day they still produce some top talent who move on and become top class, to claim otherwise it totally ridiculous.

the only genuine top class player they've produced in 20 years was fucking Sneijder. This is just not true. But they do produce a lot of players in top leagues. They could be at bottom feeding clubs, but they still do export a large number.

[selassie]

the only genuine top class player they've produced in 20 years was fucking Sneijder. This is just not true. But they do produce a lot of players in top leagues. They could be at bottom feeding clubs, but they still do export a large number.

They may have been mentioned already but Van Der Vaart, Suarez & Eriksen were all developed at Ajax, Eriksen was there from the age of 18, Saurez 20, Van Der Vaart graduated through their youth system.