Match Reaction - Arsenal 1-2 Watford - Wenger Out

[selassie]

Nope I don't think they'll stay because of Wenger. They probably came because of him, though...

It is an issue (another one). Our underperforming players will stay because they are on a good thing. Difficult to see how we will continue to sign worldies while we are clearly not on an upward trajectory, though. Wenger's refusal to committ fully in the transfer market over the past couple of seasons will come home to bite us.

This is what really irks me about Wenger and his transfer policy, the fact he doesn't act has long term consequences on the team and leads to this perpetual rebuilding cycle.

It's totally unnecessary too.

[Kano]

Nope I don't think they'll stay because of Wenger. They probably came because of him, though...

It is an issue (another one). Our underperforming players will stay because they are on a good thing. Difficult to see how we will continue to sign worldies while we are clearly not on an upward trajectory, though. Wenger's refusal to committ fully in the transfer market over the past couple of seasons will come home to bite us.

We have to remember there is a difference between our views as fans and what a player sees in a manager and a club. You make a good point that both players probably came largely because of Wenger. When they signed we were still renowned as fourth place kings and hadn't won a thing for a decade. So Wenger could've made all the promises in the world about progression, as he or any other manager or person in our club would do at the end of the season but the bares bones of our status as a club was the same, if not a little worse in terms of tangible success.

Of course, they didn't come here to just win the FA Cup and play group stages of the Champions League but their status as the big guys in the team and potential wage rises all come into play too. These players don't think like us trapped in their bubble and their connection with what we want or believe are rarely the same thing. My concern is more to do with the club being in control given the contract situations with two years left for them. Historically we've been awful at managing these situations and if things are more financialy sound, then we shouldn't have to suffer the same problems. The reality may well prove to be different though.

[Power n Glory]

Nope I don't think they'll stay because of Wenger. They probably came because of him, though...

It is an issue (another one). Our underperforming players will stay because they are on a good thing. Difficult to see how we will continue to sign worldies while we are clearly not on an upward trajectory, though. Wenger's refusal to committ fully in the transfer market over the past couple of seasons will come home to bite us.

They definitely came because of him. I'm guessing he hasn't lived up to the billing. I still think about Wenger saying Ozil needs to score more goals and Ozil firing back in the German press saying he doesn't. That's open defiance to his coaching and I've never seen that before.

The underperformers have no choice but to stay with those mouth watering wages. Walcott should really fear for his career after Wenger. I can't see anyone being patient with him on the wing or giving him a chance to play as striker if he doesn't hit the ground running. He's not a kid anymore.

[IBK]

We have to remember there is a difference between our views as fans and what a player sees in a manager and a club. You make a good point that both players probably came largely because of Wenger. When they signed we were still renowned as fourth place kings and hadn't won a thing for a decade. So Wenger could've made all the promises in the world about progression, as he or any other manager or person in our club would do at the end of the season but the bares bones of our status as a club was the same, if not a little worse in terms of tangible success.

Of course, they didn't come here to just win the FA Cup and play group stages of the Champions League but their status as the big guys in the team and potential wage rises all come into play too. These players don't think like us trapped in their bubble and their connection with what we want or believe are rarely the same thing. My concern is more to do with the club being in control given the contract situations with two years left for them. Historically we've been awful at managing these situations and if things are more financialy sound, then we shouldn't have to suffer the same problems. The reality may well prove to be different though.

Yes - we are a club that seems to be dictated to by players - not just contract wise but in terms of our best players questioning what Arsenal is going to do for them rather than what they can do for the club. Ozil's only really started to perform this season, and Alexis has been inconsistent (as his history tells us he is prone to do). Mind you there's one thing that tends to change this (universal) approach - and that's winning stuff.

[Özim]

I want him gone because he can't in my view win major trophies, if the unlikely happened and we won it. Literally couldn't give a fuck if he stayed or not, my wanting him gone is predicated on my belief that this almost certainly won't happen.

Winning trophies to me is far, far more important than who the manager is. I'm a pragmatist, I recognise that I have no control over the managers future so it's illogical for me not to want the best under the current set up.

Would I find it unbearable Wenger being given a new contract if he did the impossible? No not really, I don't think it would be especially advisable but I don't think I could want a manager out enough to purposefully want us to lose out on the title.

I think it's an emotional reaction from most who are understandably gutted by the debacle of the last seven games, the difference between them and yourself is that I believe you wanted this to happen even when we were in a more favourable position because as I say your attitude is not conducive to what I would consider someone who supports this club.

If I'm honest i think you'd be better off with a club like Chelsea, I think a club like that probably has fans like you.

Like I said you're a shortermist, some might argue a plastic (that's what they generally call fans that only care about winning and nothing else, that's not what I call them).

As far as control over whether the manager stays, that's partly true because we've seen that our fan base won't stop fillinf the stadium, with that in mind why would they bother changing, their pockets are being lined by the fans, why would they care what they think, they probably have a good laugh about it over Champagne and Caviar tbh and why not.

A lot of people would find it unbearable to see the manager sign a new contract simply because of the way the guy handles himself, the way he won't sign players, is tactically naive, is patronising to the fans, is blinkered in his approach and is very much one of the reasons this club has stagnated. It was pretty clear to most that this collapse was just a matter of time, it's happened almost every season for the past 10 years and to be honest you'd have to be pretty blinkered to think it wouldn't again based on our record, what's happened is no surprise, neither is the way fans like you get brainwashed into thinking it will be different this time, you see the same thing happen time and time again and yet you still believe.

Gutted from the last 10 games.....really? This has been happening for 10 years, have you been daydreaming all that time?

Thanks for your interest in my affairs.....but your view is immaterial to me.

[Letters]

Seriously? You're picking someone else up for only caring about trophies (not that I think HCZ is like that).
You couldn't have made it clearer on here that that's all you care about although now you're so bitter about Wenger you'd rather we don't win them.

[Power n Glory]

Seriously? You're picking someone else up for only caring about trophies (not that I think HCZ is like that).
You couldn't have made it clearer on here that that's all you care about although now you're so bitter about Wenger you'd rather we don't win them.

Like I said you're a shortermist, some might argue a plastic (that's what they generally call fans that only care about winning and nothing else, that's not what I call them).

Read the above again.

[Letters]

And here comes PnG, running as fast as he can like Roy Keane to a referee to disagree with me about something
Textbook.

[Power n Glory]

And here comes PnG, running as fast as he can like Roy Keane to a referee to disagree with me about something
Textbook.

It's not even a disagreement on this. It's your comprehension skills.

It's a good point raised in fact. Say it's not Wenger in question. Say it's Stan Kronke. Would you be happy for him to remain owner of the club if we won the title this year?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Like I said you're a shortermist, some might argue a plastic (that's what they generally call fans that only care about winning and nothing else, that's not what I call them).

As far as control over whether the manager stays, that's partly true because we've seen that our fan base won't stop fillinf the stadium, with that in mind why would they bother changing, their pockets are being lined by the fans, why would they care what they think, they probably have a good laugh about it over Champagne and Caviar tbh and why not.

A lot of people would find it unbearable to see the manager sign a new contract simply because of the way the guy handles himself, the way he won't sign players, is tactically naive, is patronising to the fans, is blinkered in his approach and is very much one of the reasons this club has stagnated. It was pretty clear to most that this collapse was just a matter of time, it's happened almost every season for the past 10 years and to be honest you'd have to be pretty blinkered to think it wouldn't again based on our record, what's happened is no surprise, neither is the way fans like you get brainwashed into thinking it will be different this time, you see the same thing happen time and time again and yet you still believe.

Gutted from the last 10 games.....really? This has been happening for 10 years, have you been daydreaming all that time?

Thanks for your interest in my affairs.....but your view is immaterial to me.

No a plastic fan is someone who only supports a team because that team is winning and will abandon them as soon as they don't win.

If you're not gutted it means you don't care, no one is arguing it's not predictable but as I've said whilst we have no leverage over who the manager is the only recourse is to hope for the best.

You ultimately fail to understand that distinction, it's not deluded belief that things will change its having no alternative but to hope it will change. Because to not support and want the team to win every game regardless of whether you think they can win is the only option available to someone who supports a football club.

The only issue I have in regards to wanting Kroenke out is that the alternative is Usmanov.

Saying you're looking at the bigger picture changes nothing, if you don't want the team to win you are not a fan. To try and dress it up like you're a gritty realist doesn't wash with me, if you are not emotionally invested in this club even if you despise the manager than I don't see why you're a fan.

It really is that simple, for future reference I believe the nearest tube station to Stamford bridge is Fulham Broadway.