Match Reaction - Arsenal 1-2 Watford - Wenger Out

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Like I say his decision making is counter intuitive, he spent almost 100million gross between summer 2014 and January 2015 so there is no argument to be made for him that he's not being given the cash.

We know that there is hardly any pressure on him for his job so it's not about being scared to spend in case it makes no difference to our fortunes.

The guy is stubborn, ridiculously so and even though his desire to win things remains, he hamstrings himself (which is a reason to get rid of course).

Not that I'm saying this as an excuse to do nothing, but we can't become a Chelsea like club and a new guy needs time which does imply things getting worse before they get better.

It would be a few years under a new manager before we are ready to challenge for the title and European cup and most likely would fall outside the top four in that time. Fortunately we are in a position to take that risk.

[Kano]

OK, but that is a new deal. Back in the day the CL money was very important. I think he'd have gone had we dropped out of the top 4 for any length of time.
We'll never know of course because Wenger has kept us in the top 4.
Wenger

Perhaps but the basis of this conversation began with people talking about what it would take for Wenger to lose his job at this point. He’s very much in control of that situation, the TV money is another cushion that allows him to pick when he retires.

[Power n Glory]

The game against Watford didn't make me angry at all, there was something almost comically predictable about it.

But again I reiterate I wanted us to win that game, can Zim say the same?

I was gutted by losing to Chelsea (well not gutted absolutely frothing at the mouth angry) and id agree the more frequently you lose the more you become desensitised to it but the overall feeling of failing to win a title is still gutting regardless of whether you could see it coming or not.

Considering the amount of abuse and stick he’s gotten, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some form of satisfaction in rubbing a few faces in it when what’s been predicted comes to pass. I don’t know. It might be why wires are getting crossed and you think he’s happy about a loss. Zim did say earlier he wants to see us win but I could be wrong. But me personally, I’m beyond the point of being gutted because nothing shocks me with this team. I said earlier in the season before that there is no point in hoping for springboard effect, looking at results against City and Utd and thinking we’ve somehow improved. Over the past 10 years we have seen it all with Arsenal. Years where we beat the big teams but lose against the small ones. Years where it’s the reverse and then a season like this. There really is nothing to measure our progress against in terms of results. Unless we see a complete shift in mentality from the Board and from the manager, history will repeat itself. I’m not gutted about losing the title to be honest. It’s comical that Wenger has driven home the point being made about his failings as a manager in such a spectacular fashion. What would really shock and piss me off is if Spurs win the title. That would be unbelievable.

[Özim]

Zim is an armchair fan. And there's nothing wrong with that, I'm one of those now.
But he is only interested in trophies - the whole nonsense about the "thoroughly enjoyable" 92/93 season shows that. I had a season ticket that year and it was mostly miserable, yes the end was good but a season lasts a long time and most of it was abject.
On the 7th November 1992 we beat Coventry, the end of a good run. We didn't win a league game again until 16th January (P8 W0 D3 L5).
For the rest of the league season, 27 games, we won just 6, drew 9 and lost 12.
Let me just repeat that. We won 6 out of 27 league games. Six! Can you imagine this place if we had that kind of season now?!
It was pathetic, frankly, this was only 2 seasons after we'd been champions, losing only one game. Even the season before we'd finished 4th.
And yet Zim thorougly enjoyed it
Why? Because he didn't have to sit through most of it and we got a couple of trophies at the end of it, somehow.

Now he's so bitter about Wenger though he actually hopes we don't win anything although it's a strange logic because we'll almost certainly finish top 4 anyway, he'll have met the board's target so he'll stay on anyway - why not win the league if we can? Which we can't, obviously.

As for the assertion that I think we're progressing. No, we've stagnated. Many have said Wenger has us in decline. He doesn't. We have neither progressed not declined in the last 10 years, there have been some promising signs but ultimately this season shows that there's been no real progress. I'll admit that the last couple of years I have seen some signs for hope. I've been over those endlessly. This season we needed to push on and win the title - or at least challenge strongly - and we haven't.

You really have a selective memory, in the season we won those two cups we rested players to prioritise the cups in quite a few games so it's not a surprise we lost or failed to win quite a number, the league wasn't the priority as we we'ren't in the running, but in those days the cups were important and winning both had never been done.

Yes I enjoyed the drama of the cups, the last minute goals the comebacks, the build up to doing the double, it was great, far better than the nonsense we see with 4th place with Wenger which IMO is absolutely worthless other than financially.

I don't expect us to win all the time, what I expect is a team capable of upsetting the odds from time to time, organisation, solid performances and some proper runs of form where we play great football and look the part and to see some progress. 10 years of Wengers nonsense is enough, the guy and everything he does is a bore and most importantly nothing ever changes with him, if anything we're going backwards.

Do I want Wenger out, yes for all the reason we know and the fact the guy is soooo arrogant he comes out and criticises anyone who dare question his job or anything he does, he's an awful representative for the club with his embarrassing comments and childish strops.

Don't expect you to understand because it's clear what you think of Wenger and you never really see the bad, yes there's a few empty words you mutter, but in reality you always find a way to defend the guy.

[Özim]

Top 4 is the board's minimum expectation of him, he obviously is bothered if he doesn't win - just look at the way he sulks when we don't.
I saw an interview with Dein where he said that they have dinner after every home game unless we lost because if that has happened he's no company.
He's clearly bothered, it's a lack of ability to push us any further, not an unwillingness to.

To a degree he's bothered, but if he was truly bothered he'd do far more than he does and be far more critical of some of his players, yes he throws a tantrum sometimes when we lose, but it's not long before he's back to normal and defending the players saying how much spirit and effort etc there is.

The guy is a joke.

[Özim]

Do you look at Wenger as someone fixated with money, because If he was it stands to reason he could have left Arsenal in 2004 for Real Madrid and added an extra decimal to his wages.

This is total nonsense to be fair, at Arsenal he gets paid a fortune, does what he wants when he wants and has total job security, at Real he'd be under pressure to sign stars, under pressure to win and would be lucky to survive 2 seasons.

It's not hard to see why he didn't leave, if anything leaving would have been pushing himself out of his comfort zone and proving to people he can do it at more than one club.

[Özim]

That and the thousands of fans who go to the Emirates week in, week out. Those absolute collaborating traitors deserve to be shot when the revolution comes.

Yes they do and that's part and parcel of the problem, if you really want change and I mean really want it you don't turn up every week and line their pockets because as we already know the only thing those guys care about is money, so if there's no risk to that they'll happily tell you to pipe down very much as they do.

[Özim]

I don't think many do either, just one...

I'm a realist and realise that we're not going to win, I knew that before the season started when all we signed is a keeper, it was foolish and complacent.

What's happening now is a consequence of poor planning, a blinkered approach to players who are always injured, poor tactics and an inability to motivate.

Unlike me you genuinely believe you can go into a season underprepared with a guy who has proven he's tacticall inept at the helm and can somehow win major trophies. We've come close I'll give you that, thanks to probably the worst PL season of all time, but even then we've managed to fall short, but it's hardly a surprise, there's a lack of quality from top to bottom.

I'm bored of knowing what's going to happen, how much pleasure can you really take knowing that you're going to collapse when it matters the most, I guess if you can pretend it's not going to happen you can enjoy it, but those who can't don't.

I don't enjoy us losing, I'm tired of it in fact, I just expect it because it happens so often nowadays, it's doesn't hurt anymore it's just part and parcel of having a manager like Wenger.

[Letters]

You really have a selective memory.

If you thoroughly enjoyed the season then you're the one with a selective memory. There were good moments, certainly, but it was mostly awful.
We scored 40 goals in 42 games.
I sat through most of it. You didn't, you just enjoyed the trophies at the end and have conveniently forgotten how awful we were for most of that season.

What I think of Wenger is that I respect the guy, I'll always be grateful for what he's done for us, not just 10 years ago - as I've said if you think 3rd and the FA Cup was disappointing last season then that level of expectation comes entirely from Wenger. But it's increasingly clear we need to move on from him. That doesn't mean he should be called every name under the sun or that I'll pretend he hasn't done any good in the last 10 years. IMO with a top striker this year we'd have won the league, our squad is in pretty good shape. We've got the money to strengthen it in the areas it needs work and the stadium and fanbase to sustain it. Wenger deserves credit for all of that. Refusing to acknowledge any of that that is ridiculously bitter and twisted. It's crazy how far you'll go to have a go at him or deny him any credit for anything.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yes they do and that's part and parcel of the problem, if you really want change and I mean really want it you don't turn up every week and line their pockets because as we already know the only thing those guys care about is money, so if there's no risk to that they'll happily tell you to pipe down very much as they do.

I love the fact that you think you're a better supporter than those who turn out week in, week out.

I have to say I'm impressed that you have admitted it, I didn't think you would

I have only been once this season and I could not fault anyone for not really wanting to go, I went a lot last season because I was using someone else's season ticket and actually in the games I went to I enjoyed the football and the results.

Asking fans to stop wanting their club to win is like telling a mother to no longer love her child, he may be going down a wrong path but you can't disconnect emotionally.

Well no actually you can, but as you're not actually a supporter to begin with that makes it easier.