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Thread: Match Reaction Everton 0-2 Arsenal - WUMger Out

  1. #111
    Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
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    I don't hate or dislike Wenger but the last thing he should be doing is creating enmity with the fans and that's exactly what he's doing, blaming us for the horrible shit smelling hole he dug himself in is a monstrous abdication of his responsibility.

    Fine no one is expecting you to say "I fucked it up" in a press conference or completely lay into the players publically but why say anything at all, all that needs acknowledging is that the results have not been good and then beseech the fans to stick with the team.

    It points to a man who is not under scrutiny enough by his employers and so resents it when it comes from fans and pundits, journalists etc.
    We have a 1-0 lead against Spurs in a game we arguably needed to win, and yet you think it's unacceptable for fans to be sore that three days after the most anaemic Arsenal performance of the season against Swansea (and that's saying something) that Coquelins crass stupidity means we are holding on at the end for a draw??.
    Last edited by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie; 21-03-2016 at 06:22 PM.

  2. #112
    ***** Niall_Quinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    Maybe we had to adopt that approach after working hard in the first half and having only played in Spain on Wednesday night, after a sunday late afternoon game, and players were tired??

    In the past when we have won big or crucial games, you have said its because the players have ignored wenger and done their own thing to win the game. Well this was one of those games, so do you give the players credit for ignoring him and winning, or slate them for backing off to win the game? In what scenario does Wenger get any praise for winning a game from you?
    Dont get me wrong, I still want a new manager, but when he gets it right he deserves the praise as much as he deserves knocked when we lose or have been on a bad run.
    Well, in the last game. I've said he picked the right team and them deployed them effectively and employed effective tactics. And the football was great to watch. Then he changed the tactics and there was nothing to see. He shut down the game as he has done many times in the past - costing us a title challenge in the process. And my argument after the game, in line with my ongoing argument, is the loss of entertaining football is the worst aspect of these last few years. If we can't realistically compete for the major prizes, if we are going to collapse even in an environment where all our major rivals have fallen away then at least let's have some decent football to watch. Wenger's negativity and his averages approach to football is depressing and frustrating.

    It could be he felt the team wouldn't be able to maintain the same levels in the second half against Everton. To accept that you then have to wonder what has happened to our fitness levels over the past few years. We used to be the fittest team in the league. And that's what substitutions are for, bring them in by all means but to keep the effort going not brick up the goal. What are we saving up for? The season is done. There are no more cup games. It's a straight path to the finish now, 8 games. Are we really persisting with this energy preservation lark that absolutely hasn't served us at all to this point? Look at our injury list. Look at the levels of performance over the season. In the main we have been so sedate it's hard to imagine we ever got within a mile of a red zone.

    8 games to go. Let's just go for it. Some decent football that's worth watching and as many goals as we can smash into the back of the net. Enough of Wenger's average, statistical driven bullshit that got us what? Nothing. Let's get back to old school. Time for the manager to find his balls and chuck away that laptop.
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  3. #113
    MOe Marc Overmars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie View Post
    I don't hate or dislike Wenger but the last thing he should be doing is creating enmity with the fans and that's exactly what he's doing, blaming us for the horrible shit smelling hole he dug himself in is a monstrous abdication of his responsibility.

    Fine no one is expecting you to say "I fucked it up" in a press conference or completely lay into the players publically but why say anything at all, all that needs acknowledging is that the results have not been good and then beseech the fans to stick with the team.

    It points to a man who is not under scrutiny enough by his employers and so resents it when it comes from fans and pundits, journalists etc.
    We have a 1-0 lead against Spurs in a game we arguably needed to win, and yet you think it's unacceptable that three days after the most anaemic Arsenal performance of the season against Swansea (and that's saying something) that Coquelins crass stupidity means we are holding on at the end for a draw??.
    I think the lack of accountability is the single biggest reason for the malaise that plagues us every season. The people who matter to Wenger don't say anything to him, so he can't possibly be doing anything wrong can he? How dare us mere mortals call him out when we've never managed a game in our lives. He's grown more and more arrogant as time has passed and now he's in uncharted waters by creating this enmity with the fans.

    As I said earlier, I've wanted him gone for a while but this will always be the year I fell out of love with him. I used to think the day he left would be tinged with sadness but now I think it's just going to be relief, relief that we can finally look forward to some degree of change.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letters View Post
    OK, I will.

    I think it's time to move on from Wenger, but that doesn't mean that EVERYTHING he says or does is wrong.
    It's bizarre how much some people hate him on here, like he just ran over their dog.
    He does soooo much wrong these days however, he's doing very little right and that's the problem.

    Add to that his patronising holier than thou attitude and you begin to see the problem.

    You paint him out to be some good guy, he really isn't, just look at the stuff he says.

  5. #115
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    the perfect answer to ensure our last 16 knock out champions status.

  6. #116
    Member Dicks and chicks's Avatar
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    the thing is man united, chelsea and Man City are all in worse postions that us as far as their seasons go.... the league is just getting a lot harder as a whole, alot of the best players in the league no longer play in the big 4, the league will only continue to get tougher
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  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dicks and chicks View Post
    the thing is man united, chelsea and Man City are all in worse postions that us as far as their seasons go.... the league is just getting a lot harder as a whole, alot of the best players in the league no longer play in the big 4, the league will only continue to get tougher
    I think it will be worse next season as 2 of those clubs definitely will have new managers next season and at least 2 of those wont be playing CL football so could put more focus on the league. With the additional tv money - CL money isn't going to be such an influence as it was so the best players will still go to Chelsea or Manchester clubs as they can still pay the biggest money and still not fall foul of the FFP rules.

    This was the season - cant see us getting a better chance any time soon. On the plus side if Leicester do win the league then as a competition the Premier League is the best and perhaps we will see more different teams winning the league instead of the same old ones (not sure which category we will fit in to as its been a while!!!)

    the CL doesn't really bother me as most of the games are dull and it is pretty predictable at the moment and biased towards the Spanish clubs.

  8. #118
    Member Power n Glory's Avatar
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    http://arseblog.com/2016/03/on-wenge...l-environment/


    Morning all, welcome to a new week and welcome to an Interlull. Perhaps a timely one, as we might come back with a couple of extra players if injuries heal the way we might like, and the chance to regroup and take stock of what’s going to be a curious, if probably predictable, final couple of months of the season.

    It’s as you were at the top after this weekend. Wins for Leicester and Sp*rs mean we’re 11 and and 6 points behind them respectively, although we do have a game in hand. All we can do is try and win, and hope two teams that between them have lost as many as we have this season suddenly hit a wall of some kind.

    Even the most optimistic, glass half full, fan would surely struggle to make a good case for that happening. Of course you never know in football, anything can happen blah blah blah, but it would be in the realms of preposterous if it did.

    Focus this morning will be on some comments from Arsene Wenger after the Everton game where he seemed to point the finger at fans for a lack of support in recent weeks. He referred specifically to the 2-2 draw with Sp*rs as a game that should have garnered more praise from fans, saying:

    What hurts me is that at the important moment of the season we played in a sceptical environment. I think after the Tottenham game where we played a very good game with 10 men against 11 and came back to 2-2, I couldn’t understand why – at the moment when you need everyone behind the team – we had to hit that storm.

    From the media, OK. From our fans? It is a bit more difficult to take.

    Before continuing:

    I never complain about critics, especially when they are turned against me. But we have to get the fans behind us with our attitude, and make sure that they stand behind the team until the end of the season.

    I think there’s something interesting about the way Arsene Wenger has been talking in recent weeks. He’s a man who is long enough in the job to know what way people are going to respond to what he says. Take the quotes last week in which he said:

    I built the club, and the way I did it was with hard work. I had no external resources. Compare the club when I arrived and how it is today. It is moved forward, and without any help from anybody.

    They provoked some anger from people who took them to mean he was dismissing what came before, as if Arsenal only existed under Arsene Wenger. Yet we know fine well Wenger is aware of the history and traditions of the club, he’s referenced them countless times, and has always said they’re an important part of what makes Arsenal great.

    So, was it just a clumsy turn of phrase to talk about his time at the club, in which he has done a lot to move Arsenal into the modern era? Or perhaps a more deliberate choice of words to stick it a little to his detractors. I think probably the former, as he’d credit people with that much nous, but he must also know in this current climate that anything that might raise the hackles is to be best avoided. And there’s no escaping the fact it was a poor choice of words.

    Similarly, he must know that fans are hugely disgruntled. It’s apparent at every game, in every section of the media, in every press conference, and the reason for that is our form, and the fact we’re heading into the final stretch of the season looking for miracles to overtake Leicester and Sp*rs, for goodness sake. We’re not behind the big spenders and the established Premier League winners, but two clubs with no pedigree at this end of the table at all.

    Fans feel like a massive opportunity to win the league has been wasted, and that’s why there’s so much unrest. Some of it, of course, goes too far. I regularly see comments from people who say they want us to lose. I see comments from people who say that even if we’d won the league this season they’d want Wenger to go. It shows that even a manager doing exactly what they want another manager to do isn’t enough.

    There’s a poisonous undercurrent of disenchantment that even genuine success won’t wash away. We have an atmosphere that begets faux celebrities enjoying their 15 minutes of fame with banners taken out after we win games, and fans fighting each other in the stands. It’s amplified and multiplied by the 24/7 debate and analysis, but ultimately what drives it? Performances and results.

    If Arsenal were sitting 6 points clear of Sp*rs and 11 clear of Leicester at this point of the season, things wouldn’t be this unpleasant. That is the reality of it. We were top of the table on January 3rd, in a good position to kick on – even after a typically disastrous November, but since then have taken just 13 points from the last 30.

    It’s a collapse that has most likely cost us the title (miracle of miracles aside), and that’s what’s created the ‘sceptical environment’, that the manager mentions. Even that Sp*rs game could be looked at as a microcosm of the season. 1-0 up and doing well, we self-destruct with a needless red card and concede twice, but we’re supposed to look at the point gained as something to celebrate?

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather have had the point than none, but when we needed this team to really take their chance and go and win, we folded like a house of cards. It was in our hands in January, it was out of them by the end of February, if not sooner. That, and the mind-numbing familiarity of this scenario playing out once more, is what is affecting the fans.

    Been there, done that, worn the t-shirt.

    Same old story.

    Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

    And Arsene Wenger, of all people, knows that. He knows we’ve seen it before, because he’s presided over it before. He also knows how important it is to have fans behind the team. In the wake of other bad results and difficult atmospheres, he’s said more than once that it’s up to the team to perform in a way that lifts the crowd.

    In some ways it’s the classic chicken and egg situation. Do fans lift the team or should the team lift the fans? It’s not an easy one, but I think we saw for the Swansea game that people have basically given up on this team. If we had won that game we’d have been much more in the title race, but thousands simply didn’t show up. They reckon they know how this one ends.

    But the manager must also know that even mild criticism of fans in a state of high dudgeon isn’t going to be received well. Maybe he feels personally affronted by the criticism, but wouldn’t something like this have been more beneficial?

    “Yes, we know results have been poor, but there are still 8 games to go. We’ll keep fighting and doing our best. We need the fans support, and we hope they’ll be behind us for those games.”

    Not the most eloquent, I know, but it’s early. When 5 of last 8 games are at home, what on earth is the thinking behind those post-Everton comments? Again, was it a clumsy choice of words, or something more pointed?

    Because bar the people who think want Arsenal to lose because it might bring about ‘regime change’, fans want to be behind their team. They want them to win, to perform, and to play well. But they’re also only human and when you see them blow the best chance of winning the league most of us can remember, with the traditional big teams having dreadful campaigns, it’s bound to cause frustration.

    It just strikes me that it’s at the very least counter productive to lay blame on the ‘sceptical environment’ without any genuine acknowledgement of the team’s failings – something for which Arsene Wenger is ultimately responsible.

    We know he’s not a man who will lambaste his team in public, beyond the perfunctory post-match comments about lacking this or that, and even if some of them take it too far, the same should apply to the supporters.
    Falling on his own sword. Not even Arseblog could defend or explain away the comments. It's only a matter of time.

  9. #119
    Administrator Letters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Özim View Post
    He does soooo much wrong these days however, he's doing very little right and that's the problem.

    Add to that his patronising holier than thou attitude and you begin to see the problem.

    You paint him out to be some good guy, he really isn't, just look at the stuff he says.
    He does soooo much wrong and yet last year we finished 3rd and won the FA Cup and this year it looks like we'll finish in the top 3 again. I have a theory we'll go on a run now we're out of everything and finish 2nd. And yes, it's not good enough finishing below Leicester, even if that is in 2nd place, but if Wenger was as inept as some on here make out then I doubt we'd be anywhere near the top 4.

    I do look at the stuff he says. Well, some of it. And as I'm not blinded by the hatred you have for him, I see that some of it is the sort of soundbite nonsense you get from a lot of managers, some of it IS outright balls but a lot of it is basically right. The way some people go on it's like EVERYTHING he says or does is wrong. That obviously isn't true.

  10. #120
    Administrator Letters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dicks and chicks View Post
    the thing is man united, chelsea and Man City are all in worse postions that us as far as their seasons go.... the league is just getting a lot harder as a whole, alot of the best players in the league no longer play in the big 4, the league will only continue to get tougher
    It would be kinda ironical if the one season we finally finish above all our traditional rivals and the billionaire cheats we go and lose the league to Leicester or, worse, Spurs.




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