Who Will Win The League - 2

[Letters]

I'm not moving the goalposts at all.

After Chelsea, 24/01

No surprises here, Chelsea beat us again, a Chelsea side struggling for results this season still come here and beat us at home, this is really embarrassing and proves we lack the bottle and the collapse we always see is happening again.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/sh...t=3491&page=11

And then your comment above about the Leicester game, 14/02

I still think there was a long way to go at that stage

[Letters]

Seriously, what do you think the cause is for us falling away like this? Your opinion on what's gone wrong for us this season.

Pressure is a factor, obviously. But it's simplistic to think it's the only one. IMO another factor is the lack of a strong captain. Any side will go through dips in form, we need someone out there getting them going again. We seem completely unable to haul ourselves out of a malaise and Wenger has never been a good motivator.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I still think there was a long way to go at that stage and because we were 5 points behind we felt less pressure and we got a bit lucky to win that anyway in the end with a very late goal it wasn't like we won that comfortably.

What was interesting was how we collapsed after that though when we were in the mix again, that tells you all you need to know, we can't handle the pressure when we're one of the favourites to win the title.

As soon as we're out of it we start winning again though, I don't know how much more evidence you need that we can't handle pressure tbh.

The problem is you take such an absolutist view that you may yourself seem ridiculous when presented with counter examples

Do we ultimately show mental weakness under pressure and that contributes to us not winning a league title in 12 years? Yes of course but as Letters point out there are times we do perform under pressure but we don't do it consistently because we are a confidence team where one defeat tends to have knock on effect that it doesn't have for other teams.

Beating Leicester in February especially getting a goal in final knockings showed the ability to get a result under pressure however this was followed up by a collapse which shows our utter inconsistency, and yes I'd agree we only perform consistently when under less pressure.

Leicester will win the title because apart from a slight wobble post Xmas they have shown fantastic consistency.

Does that make Claudio Ranieri superior to Wenger?? Not really just wise enough to inherit Nigel Pearsons blueprint and not tinker with it too much.

[Özim]

After Chelsea, 24/01



http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/sh...t=3491&page=11

And then your comment above about the Leicester game, 14/02

Do you store these ready to use? Our record against Chelsea is dreadful and regardless of where they are or how bad they are we seem to lose which suggests a mental issue, this game just shows the same lack of bottle we have when it comes to winning things, this was just one game in many that proves this, another mental obstacle we can't overcome.

Regarding the Leicester yes there was a long way to go and like I said the victory was still rather fortunate in the end with a last gasp goal.

[Özim]

The problem is you take such an absolutist view that you may yourself seem ridiculous when presented with counter examples

Do we ultimately show mental weakness under pressure and that contributes to us not winning a league title in 12 years? Yes of course but as Letters point out there are times we do perform under pressure but we don't do it consistently because we are a confidence team where one defeat tends to have knock on effect that it doesn't have for other teams.

Beating Leicester in February especially getting a goal in final knockings showed the ability to get a result under pressure however this was followed up by a collapse which shows our utter inconsistency, and yes I'd agree we only perform consistently when under less pressure.

Leicester will win the title because apart from a slight wobble post Xmas they have shown fantastic consistency.

Does that make Claudio Ranieri superior to Wenger?? Not really just wise enough to inherit Nigel Pearsons blueprint and not tinker with it too much.

If we could handle the pressure we wouldn't collapse everytime we're well placed in the league at the end of the season and pick up again once we're all but out of it. If you look at the last 10 years we see two scenarioes a) we perform well when we've started so badly in the league that we're out of the running or b) we perform well at the start of the season and collapse at the end of the season when we're well placed to win it.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to spot the issue here, we can't deal with the pressure of winning the big prizes, 10 years of the same and it's clear this is the issue.

I think the problem for us is the pressure when we're close to winnign something major which is very different to pressure of winning a one off game which more often than not has no real impact on the season.

Is Ranieria a better manager, hard to tell, what he is though is clearly more tactically astute and a better motivator and can set out his team to grind out results.

Wenger has basically always just relied on his players to deliver with relatively minimal input, problem is he doesn't sign the right players to take this approach.

[Letters]

Do you store these ready to use?

No, it' s a messageboard. It stores them itself.
I just went to have a look, guessing that having said it was a 'long way to go' after Leicester you'd probably have said we 'bottled it' in an earlier defeat.
I wasn't disappointed.

[Letters]

If we could handle the pressure we wouldn't collapse everytime we're well placed in the league at the end of the season and pick up again once we're all but out of it.

What about the pressure of an FA Cup Qtr Final at Old Trafford.
Or the pressure of a cup semi-final, or final actually - especially when you go 2-0 down in one having not won a trophy in 10 years.
Or the pressure of playing City, knowing a win will put you top at Christmas.
Or the pressure of playing the team 5 points above you at the top, knowing a defeat will put you out of the title race.

I'm not saying pressure isn't a factor, but it's not the only one. There are plenty of examples where we've won pressure games both this season and in the last couple. It's too simplistic to say it's just because we can't handle pressure.

[Özim]

No, it' s a messageboard. It stores them itself.
I just went to have a look, guessing that having said it was a 'long way to go' after Leicester you'd probably have said we 'bottled it' in an earlier defeat.
I wasn't disappointed.

Have we not bottled it? If the answer is yes than that makes me correct doesn't it?

The Leicester game wasn't a great performance, it was a good win with a very late winner I think we were a little fortunate to win that game in the end but we did, had pressure not been an issue we'd have then kicked on and won a few more, instead we once again collapsed when well placed.

Often for teams there are big games you win which make you believe you can go on to win it, it doesn't seem to happen with us, we win what is deemed to be a big game and then seem get the jitters, fail to turn up and drop points left, right and center, it's no coincidence that since we've as good as been out of it we'v started winning again.

For me it all started going wrong against Liverpool in reality, we should have won that and blew it, the Chelsea game should have been a win for us too against a side who were struggling for a win and were playing away, but once again we blew it. Yes we beat Leicester but we didn't really perform that well on that day either, then we went on to lose more and more points.

[Power n Glory]

Pressure is a factor, obviously. But it's simplistic to think it's the only one. IMO another factor is the lack of a strong captain. Any side will go through dips in form, we need someone out there getting them going again. We seem completely unable to haul ourselves out of a malaise and Wenger has never been a good motivator.

Then what are you really arguing over? It’s an obvious psychological issue and has a lot to do with pressure and leadership. I don’t think anyone really needs to write a long post about what’s going on here. It’s all been said before.

[Özim]

What about the pressure of an FA Cup Qtr Final at Old Trafford.
Or the pressure of a cup semi-final, or final actually - especially when you go 2-0 down in one having not won a trophy in 10 years.
Or the pressure of playing City, knowing a win will put you top at Christmas.
Or the pressure of playing the team 5 points above you at the top, knowing a defeat will put you out of the title race.

I'm not saying pressure isn't a factor, but it's not the only one. There are plenty of examples where we've won pressure games both this season and in the last couple. It's too simplistic to say it's just because we can't handle pressure.

I think to some extent having won the FA cup the season before the pressure was less in the FA Cup the 2nd time round and we were playing and Man U team who weren't much kop to be honest and in the end were down to 10.

Yes I guess being 2-0 in the semi was a pressure situation but you could argue that at 2-0 we thought we'd almost lost and could throw caution to the wind as the game was almost gone and it worked, I still maintain the pressure for the cup isn't the same, Wenger has not put much emphasis on this trophy for years.

The pressure at Christmas just isn't the same, there's half a season to go, you're nowhere near winning anything.

Again with Leicester we weren't great and won it with the last kick which has an element of fortune in it, it's not like we started really well scored a few and stamped our authority on the game, the sending off certainly helped our cause as well, had it be 11 vs 11 all match I doubt we'd have won.