Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

[Özim]

To be fair i don't think i've seen anything Letters has written which has even implied he is a top manager, he's not

What about this:

Again, I will defend him against hyperbole and bullshit. If I'm 'always' doing so it's because you and others are 'always' spouting it.
All top managers are arrogant, all the things you hammer Wenger for are equally true of managers you admire. This is another example of your goalpost shifting.
This is not about sympathy or feeling sorry for him, it's about calling out bullshit.

All that said, your post above about paying up I agree with. Prices are crazy and I understand if Wenger baulks at them, but ultimately we have the cash, we need to compete and we should spend big to do so now we're able to.

[Power n Glory]

You're always defending Wenger which I simply don't understand, the stuff he comes out with, he's very arrogant and also quick to point fingers at other people without ever accepting responsibility, I could understand your viewpoint if the man was more apologetic and accept he's made mistakes, but no the guy does the same thing every season, harping on about how he's right because this or that (now it's Leicester) despite being a failure (and yes he is a failure because he's not won a major trophy since 2004 despite numerous opportunities and plenrty of resources at his disposal as well as a very stable environment where he can do whatever he likes), making allsorts of excuses and of course blaming the refs/the fans/ the money.

If he was more humble you might have a point, but quite the opposite, his head has got so big you they have to use a crane to lift him out of the Emirates stadium. I've got no sympathy with him and don't feel at all sorry for him, he earns a load of cash off the back of the fans and has the easiest job in football IMO, a job at a big club where he's his own boss and failure comes with no penalty, he won a few trophies many years ago and yes it was great, but that was a long time ago and he's now spent 12 years without any real success, to put it bluntly he's won 3 titles and had no sucess in the CL in 19 years and has seen nothing in 12, that's a damning stat.

You’ve summed up what I dislike most about Wenger. Last season when he blamed the fans for our form, that was enough for me. By the time he goes, he may leave a fragmented fan base behind that won’t heal so quickly even with a new manager on board. I’m still waiting for the day for the media to paint the fans in the worst possible light when it all gets a bit on top. I really hope we don’t have a repeat of last season but it’s looking like it’s getting close.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Again i don't think that necessarily implies Wenger is a top manager.

It's just that you chide Wenger for being arrogant, when it's a trait of top managers. You think because Wenger isn't a top manager he should be more humble, but that's more about your disdain for the man....how dare he not meet my expectations and not be contrite about it.

Well hypothetically assume we had a better manager in, and despite having won big trophies had a lean spell for a year or so, do you expect him to be apologetic about it?

[Letters]

To be fair i don't think i've seen anything Letters has written which has even implied he is a top manager, he's not.

There is no objective measure of what 'top manager' means so we can spend all day shouting "yes he is", "no he isn't" but it's all a bit meaningless.
He's nowhere near as bad as some people make out, let's just leave it at that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You’ve summed up what I dislike most about Wenger. Last season when he blamed the fans for our form, that was enough for me. By the time he goes, he may leave a fragmented fan base behind that won’t heal so quickly even with a new manager on board. I’m still waiting for the day for the media to paint the fans in the worst possible light when it all gets a bit on top. I really hope we don’t have a repeat of last season but it’s looking like it’s getting close.

Whilst he was totally out of order to blame the fans, if the fan base is still fragmented even after he goes than they need to look at themselves and take responsibility for their own attitude and behaviour.
I always thought blaming Wenger for fans infighting seems absurd and infantilising the fans. You see it everywhere today, the discourse has completely changed from disagreeing with someone to thinking that person is contemptible for not sharing the same point of view.

I get insulted and patronised by both tribes in the Wenger In/Wenger Out discussion because I dare to think being entrenched on either side is ridiculous.

[Power n Glory]

I will 'give it a break' if they do. If I ignore it then it will happen all season. If I and others call people on it then maybe we'll return to some more sensible debate.

The sensible debate has passed. Everyone that has said their piece has said it already. Are you getting anything new from this debate? Has it sparked a sensible debate over the past few days? In fact, whose to say this isn't a sensible debate. It's just being by an isolated few.

The only thing that will stop the negativity is if we do something positive in the transfer window and make a real go of the season. Your defence of Wenger isn't going to stop anything. It's just regurgitating the same stuff over and over. Even after a positive result you'll goad Zim back into the debate with a 'Where's Zim' post. It just sparks the same debate over and over again.

[Letters]

It's just regurgitating the same stuff over and over.

As are they, but as always you only pick me up on it because of your little vendetta against me

[Power n Glory]

Whilst he was totally out of order to blame the fans, if the fan base is still fragmented even after he goes than they need to look at themselves and take responsibility for their own attitude and behaviour.
I always thought blaming Wenger for fans infighting seems absurd and infantilising the fans. You see it everywhere today, the discourse has completely changed from disagreeing with someone to thinking that person is contemptible for not sharing the same point of view.

I get insulted and patronised by both tribes in the Wenger In/Wenger Out discussion because I dare to think being entrenched on either side is ridiculous.

Pat yourself on the back.

[Power n Glory]

As are they, but as always you only pick me up on it because of your little vendetta against me

No, because you're the one always making out that this is driving people away from GW and people are tired of it. I also notice that you only get into back to back posts when it comes to Wenger so it seems like you're the one that enjoys it the most.

[Letters]

I'm not 'making out' anything. Other people have said it.