Match Reaction vs Liverpool (home).

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Wasn't really looking at it from a political angle, and wrong thread to get into that anyway. More looking at it as a system that has become so corrupt and morally bankrupt (as with Kroenke and his gang at Arsenal) they can host huge public theatre extolling the virtues of honour and service and duty whilst running a serial criminal as a candidate. I can't recall it ever being so blatant. Much as I can't recall a football club more blatant in its desires than Arsenal, or a club whose agenda runs so contrary to the publicly stated aims. Bizarrely there's almost a cold honesty to their dishonesty. Yes - we are lying to you. Thank you for your interest in our affairs.

Well you can look at it as her being ahead of the curve, most people wait until they become president before committing crimes.

I just don't think the situation is comparable, no-one is saying if we get rid of Wenger we end up with a badly shaved orang-utan as manager

[Flavs]

I do know the answer, but I can't believe it. This is like Hillary running for office. Despite the avalanche of reasons why she's the most unsuitable person imaginable, the whole machinery pushes on without even pretending her candidacy is legitimate in any imaginable way shape or form. This is where we've got to at Arsenal. They're pissing right in our faces and challenging us to do something about it because they think there's absolutely nothing we can do. They think they have every conceivable angle covered. So much so that we now have a manager that openly states mentality plays no part in sport. Literally nobody else on the planet believes that, it doesn't even cross their minds as a concept worthy of consideration. Until Wenger pipes up and states this insanity as a fact. Alright, if he hasn't been sacked for the reasons we already know, why hasn't he been carted off in a straightjacket? Now that's one you can't answer. There's no valid reason why the bloke isn't in a padded cell now.

jesus this place has changed a bit....where are all the boob comments??

[Kano]

jesus this place has changed a bit....where are all the boob comments??

Shut it you tit

[Flavs]

the question that I was pondering during yesterdays shit shower was whether Wenger has always been a bit shit but carried by individual brilliance and strength of character of former players or whether he has become shit over the past 6 or 7 years and that was compounded by having to sell players to pay for the stadium constantly?

Some things are constant (I watched some old video's to check)
The weird substitutions where he takes off a player having a good game and leaves on a bigger reputation player who is stinking the place up
Not getting involved when we are up against it (Look at Klopp yesterday when we scored, changed his approach, changed his tactics and constantly encouraged his team, Wenger when we were losing, sat there looking all French and moaned at the completely pointless Steve Bould)
Weird digs at people in interviews that make him look like a muppet (what happened to the suave wit?)
The insistence on sticking with players that simply arent up to it
Crap goalkeeping
Worse defending
Endless moaning
Never accepting any blame for anything
signing players who are too young then destroying their confidence by exposing them to insurmountable situations
Having Theo Walcott anywhere near the pitch
Playing people out of position
Rigid tactics

and so on, now when you have a Vieira, Henry or a Bergkamp or even an Anelka or Overmars in your team you can gloss over some of that by winning through individual brilliance or strength of character but when you have a team like we have that have less backbone that the whole French Infantry it shows up the mistakes in Neon

[Flavs]

[LDG]

The short of it is, Wenger should have gone after winning the FA Cup (2014). On a high, reputation still mostly intact, and genuine warmth from the majority of the fanbase.

Everything he has done since, chips away further at the reputation he once had, and points more to the doubts lots of people have had for some time.

He is now a bumbling idiot.

[Niall_Quinn]

the question that I was pondering during yesterdays shit shower was whether Wenger has always been a bit shit but carried by individual brilliance and strength of character of former players or whether he has become shit over the past 6 or 7 years and that was compounded by having to sell players to pay for the stadium constantly?

Some things are constant (I watched some old video's to check)
The weird substitutions where he takes off a player having a good game and leaves on a bigger reputation player who is stinking the place up
Not getting involved when we are up against it (Look at Klopp yesterday when we scored, changed his approach, changed his tactics and constantly encouraged his team, Wenger when we were losing, sat there looking all French and moaned at the completely pointless Steve Bould)
Weird digs at people in interviews that make him look like a muppet (what happened to the suave wit?)
The insistence on sticking with players that simply arent up to it
Crap goalkeeping
Worse defending
Endless moaning
Never accepting any blame for anything
signing players who are too young then destroying their confidence by exposing them to insurmountable situations
Having Theo Walcott anywhere near the pitch
Playing people out of position
Rigid tactics

and so on, now when you have a Vieira, Henry or a Bergkamp or even an Anelka or Overmars in your team you can gloss over some of that by winning through individual brilliance or strength of character but when you have a team like we have that have less backbone that the whole French Infantry it shows up the mistakes in Neon

Something I thought about more than a few times. And the reason why, if we ever do go into the transfer market again, we need to go big and bring in the type of player who can overcome the handicap of Wenger and win despite him. His entire legacy is under examination. But, it can't be denied he did manage to find those players, the likes of Henry and Vieira who were struggling at their former clubs. But it's a long time since he hit the jackpot.

[Kano]

the question that I was pondering during yesterdays shit shower was whether Wenger has always been a bit shit but carried by individual brilliance and strength of character of former players or whether he has become shit over the past 6 or 7 years and that was compounded by having to sell players to pay for the stadium constantly?

Some things are constant (I watched some old video's to check)
The weird substitutions where he takes off a player having a good game and leaves on a bigger reputation player who is stinking the place up
Not getting involved when we are up against it (Look at Klopp yesterday when we scored, changed his approach, changed his tactics and constantly encouraged his team, Wenger when we were losing, sat there looking all French and moaned at the completely pointless Steve Bould)
Weird digs at people in interviews that make him look like a muppet (what happened to the suave wit?)
The insistence on sticking with players that simply arent up to it
Crap goalkeeping
Worse defending
Endless moaning
Never accepting any blame for anything
signing players who are too young then destroying their confidence by exposing them to insurmountable situations
Having Theo Walcott anywhere near the pitch
Playing people out of position
Rigid tactics

and so on, now when you have a Vieira, Henry or a Bergkamp or even an Anelka or Overmars in your team you can gloss over some of that by winning through individual brilliance or strength of character but when you have a team like we have that have less backbone that the whole French Infantry it shows up the mistakes in Neon

The Invincibles answer that I think. Regardless of their characters he still had to transform Henry back into a striker, develop a young Vieira, help Pires settle and become an even better player and so on. Finding the right characters and the balance with their personalities is easier said than done. If you are an MD or run a business, one of the most time consuming and difficult aspects is dealing with the staff and keeping them onboard and working for you productively. That shit is hard work. And man management in football is one of the most important aspects in achieving success. I heard somewhere recently a theory that I think fits, in that when things are going well he knows how to keep the group going and ensure momentum flows. But when shit hits the fan, as we've seen many times when we go on bad runs and crash out of all the competitions in a short space of time or struggle to win when a defeat breaks an unbeaten run, he struggles to piece it all back together.

As frustrating as the top 4 has become that level of consistency is pretty remarkable in such a competitive league, especially when we moved stadium. Obviously his time is up and has been for a few years I don't think there's a need to revise history on what he achieved previously. Modern football has just caught up and overtaken him, as happens to almost everyone in every industry. It's only the freaks like Ferguson that Buck that trend.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And to add to that point, Ferguson also had the good sense to delegate more and more responsibility to his coaching team and shake that coaching team up when it wasn't producing, he had the same ruthlessness with players.

[AFC Leveller]

Arseblog's piece today was spot on.

The air of confusion that surrounds much of what is going on is hard to shake as well. After Man City Arsene Wenger seemed happy with the physical preparation, saying:

We could see that we have played together for a while now, so there’s a good fluidity and understanding in our game … physically we look ready.
After yesterday’s debacle:

After yesterday’s debacle:

Physically we are not ready … we are not capable of maintaining the level, because not all the players have the