Match reaction: Arsenal 2-1 Southampton

[Niall_Quinn]

1. Do not lose the ball, ever, ever, ever

If that was a cardinal rule that you are not allowed to break, than why on earth does Ramsey get picked week in, week out when he is fit?

Because in the main he doesn't lose the ball. It's just that when he does it's usually because he's done something dumb, like attempted a flick when a pass would do. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to criticise him for doing something anti-Wenger. Maybe it's a little bit of rebellion in him that he can't or won't shake. The ambitious shot, the low probability pass attempt, the burst into the box that exposes his own midfield. Few of our players gamble. That's because they know their teammates won't either. Wenger has found a grinding, statistics based way to eek out enough points each season to earn CL cash. And I emphasise, the goal is the cash, not the competition. Because he refuses to compete when we are playing in the CL. Not unless he is forced to, not unless the cash it at risk. He's turned winning this cash into mock prestige built on the mock prestige of never finishing outside the top 4. It's mechanically reconstituted football. There's a little bit of the real thing mixed in with a big blob of shit. Wengerball in all its stench.

What we should be doing is telling the likes of Xhaka and Cazorla and Ozil to get the damn thing forward in an instant, just keep relentless pressure on the opposition defence. Run out of steam if necessary - that's what subs are for. Lose the ball 50% of time, not a problem at all. But stretch the opposition all over the pitch and do it fast. You know, like we used to. When we used to win.

[Niall_Quinn]

From Le-grove. More people who can see what the one, giant, ghetto-blasting, red luminous mega problem is:

We have a team packed to the brim with talent, and often we are relying on the individual brilliance of our players (Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla, Koscielny) or refereeing high japery to win us games in a tactically limited set up.

The only thing holding the team back now is the manager.

Most Arsenal fans know this. It is out of an admirable but ever diminishing sense of loyalty to Arsene that he has been given the opportunity to try for one more season what hasn’t come close to working for the last eight. It comes at considerable personal expense to the fans, especially those who pay to go to games. But also to the club as world class players such as Ozil and Sanchez see us celebrate an abysmal but lucky performance like yesterday’s and wonder if they can’t do better elsewhere.

And:

We have a manager who really doesn’t have much of a clue about the issues he’s facing all over the pitch… he’s just hoping if he plays pretty football, and everyone is having a good time, the footballing gods will reward him with a Champions League.

Yes, I'm afraid i's true. The last 10 years have brutally exposed Wenger. The supreme ruler, with no clothes.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

From Le-grove. More people who can see what the one, giant, ghetto-blasting, red luminous mega problem is:



And:



Yes, I'm afraid i's true. The last 10 years have brutally exposed Wenger. The supreme ruler, with no clothes.

I don't think to be fair that I or P'N'G actually disagree that the manager is the problem, i think where we disagree is why he is the problem

You are saying that Southampton is a result of a megalomania to instill passing football at the exclusion of all else, I think the problem was a complete lack of any tactical plan full stop....it was more a case of putting the shapes in the right hole and hoping for the best and believing that would be sufficient as we are playing Southampton and not Man United/Man City/Chelsea

That and the over-reliance on Ozil to be the instigator of everything we do in attack, and when he decides he can't be bothered it all goes to pot. Ozil wasn't a victim of wenger ball on saturday because he has played so well in so many other games, he was just outright poor and maybe that is Wenger's fault because he has a player who doesn't want to be here anymore because he thinks he is playing for someone who doesn't have it in him to motivate these players into a title winning side.....but i can't see it was a result of any tactical plan.

[Niall_Quinn]

I wasn't aiming that at either of you, I'm just piling wood on a bonfire. And having an obsession with one aspect of the game to the detriment of all others is pretty much the same thing as having no tactics, so I guess we agree there as well. The fact his obsession is so transparent and so evident and easily countered by opposition managers is a huge burden for the players to carry each time they go onto the pitch. I'm convinced we'd be better off with no manager at all as opposed to having that dinosaur strangle our game.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I wasn't aiming that at either of you, I'm just piling wood on a bonfire. And having an obsession with one aspect of the game to the detriment of all others is pretty much the same thing as having no tactics, so I guess we agree there as well. The fact his obsession is so transparent and so evident and easily countered by opposition managers is a huge burden for the players to carry each time they go onto the pitch. I'm convinced we'd be better off with no manager at all as opposed to having that dinosaur strangle our game.

Perhaps but you i believe are over egging the pudding of what is drilled into them in training, that was suggest there is a structure to it that i don't believe exists.

His stubborn adherence to a certain philosophy, seems to be more underlined in the type of players he buys.

[Letters]

I thought one problem that people criticise Wenger for is that he doesn't tell the players how to play or dictate tactics.
Doesn't he just let them go out there and do their thing? Which was great when we had people like Bergkamp and Henry, you don't really need tactics when you've got players like that around, but now we're suddenly faced with 3 or 4 squads at least as good if not better than ours and that's where Wenger falls down.

[Power n Glory]

I thought one problem that people criticise Wenger for is that he doesn't tell the players how to play or dictate tactics.
Doesn't he just let them go out there and do their thing? Which was great when we had people like Bergkamp and Henry, you don't really need tactics when you've got players like that around, but now we're suddenly faced with 3 or 4 squads at least as good if not better than ours and that's where Wenger falls down.

It's a double edge sword. We have some limited players that need more guidance but we also have players that aren't as good as Bergkamp and co. They just don't have the hunger.

[selassie]

I thought one problem that people criticise Wenger for is that he doesn't tell the players how to play or dictate tactics.
Doesn't he just let them go out there and do their thing? Which was great when we had people like Bergkamp and Henry, you don't really need tactics when you've got players like that around, but now we're suddenly faced with 3 or 4 squads at least as good if not better than ours and that's where Wenger falls down.

It's one of the problems and it's highlighted in the fact that we don't really have any consistently outstanding young talents because they are not coached. Yeah the likes of Bellerin and Iwobi do produce some stellar performances but they also both blow hot and cold.

I accept that young players do have dips in forms and that it's rare for them to consistently play at a high level but ours seem to go from the sublime to the ridiculous, there is no middle ground and no signs of a consistent development.

It's no surprise that our most consistent performers (Santi, Ozil, Kos, Cech & to a lesser degree Sanchez) are our most experienced players, do these guys really need to be babysat? Probably not.

The likes of Bellerin & Iwobi most certainly do.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Because in the main he doesn't lose the ball. It's just that when he does it's usually because he's done something dumb, like attempted a flick when a pass would do. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to criticise him for doing something anti-Wenger. Maybe it's a little bit of rebellion in him that he can't or won't shake. The ambitious shot, the low probability pass attempt, the burst into the box that exposes his own midfield. Few of our players gamble. That's because they know their teammates won't either. Wenger has found a grinding, statistics based way to eek out enough points each season to earn CL cash. And I emphasise, the goal is the cash, not the competition. Because he refuses to compete when we are playing in the CL. Not unless he is forced to, not unless the cash it at risk. He's turned winning this cash into mock prestige built on the mock prestige of never finishing outside the top 4. It's mechanically reconstituted football. There's a little bit of the real thing mixed in with a big blob of shit. Wengerball in all its stench.

What we should be doing is telling the likes of Xhaka and Cazorla and Ozil to get the damn thing forward in an instant, just keep relentless pressure on the opposition defence. Run out of steam if necessary - that's what subs are for. Lose the ball 50% of time, not a problem at all. But stretch the opposition all over the pitch and do it fast. You know, like we used to. When we used to win.

I'm quick to criticise him because he's slow, his range of passing is inferior to almost every other midfielder at arsenal, his tackling is often rash and he loses the ball by not having the speed of thought or movement in order to control the ball first time and run or pick out a team mate.