Ozil - Do we need him?

[Power n Glory]

Xhaka hardly getting over 80 passes is down to his style of play. That's not usually a problem for Santi or Elneny when playing. But they play a shorter passing game and it's pass and move, pass and move when they play.

I'm not even sure about a 3 man midfield with everyone playing their zones would work. We certainly could do with more structure there but the issue with Xhaka goes all the way back to when we played City during the pre season. When pressed and harassed, he'll make mistakes. Passes go astray and he's easily dispossessed. I recall Blink noticing how the majority of great passes we saw in those youtube clips over the summer were made under no pressure and defenders gave him loads of space. He knew he wouldn't that sort of time and space for us at Arsenal. It's a good observation because that's why he's not having the impact you expected. Wenger did say something weird about him being box to box but also said recently hat he is a deep laying player. He certainly doesn't play box to box for us and it has often been Coquelin pushing up further than Xhaka but that's in order to win the ball back early. Xhaka often sits deeper and I rarely see him burst from box to box.

If you had watched the first half of the City pre season game, you'd have seen how Xhaka struggled against the high press and we were boxed in for the first. Only until Elneny came on did we get a hold of the midfield and beat City. Xhaka would dwindle on the ball and have it pinched off his toes or get closed down when trying to sort his feet out. It's worth listening to Arsenal Vision podcast. They noticed this flaw in his game too and said it's down to him being so one footed and unwilling to pass the ball with his weaker foot. That's another good observation and explains why I have no faith in him playing against high pressing teams. If he receives it on his weaker side, he'll try to shift it to his left foot. It leaves him vulnerable and it looks like he's dwindling on the ball.

Not sure how you can conclude that I don't appreciate the intelligence of Theo, Iwobi and Ozil. I never once downplayed their intelligence. That statement in itself is just another demonstration of you undercutting Alexis. You're also playing semantics with this dropping back thing. His movement is what creates space for players to get in behind. He doesn't have to touch the ball. Rewatch Ozil's last goal with that header and assist from Ox. It's not just a case of it working against Chelsea. As said, we're seeing the fruits from that with the goals Theo, Ox, Iwobi and Ozil have scored this season. This is the most Ozil has ever scored in a season. Same goes for Ox.

[mastermind84]

Xhaka hardly getting over 80 passes is down to his style of play. That's not usually a problem for Santi or Elneny when playing. But they play a shorter passing game and it's pass and move, pass and move when they play.

Thats why I said Xhaka is an ELITE deep lying playmaker being asked to play box to box.

He would get more touches if he was playing where he is elite on the pitch. Its like asking Ozil to be a left back.

Elneny is a Denilson clone and Santi is definitely more busier. But the difference between Xhaka and Santi in their passing is Xhaka has a better range of passing. Santi's gift is that he is two footed while Xhaka's gift is he can ping a ball 70 yards up the pitch to spring a counter.

Wenger is using him wrong.

I'm not even sure about a 3 man midfield with everyone playing their zones would work. We certainly could do with more structure there but the issue with Xhaka goes all the way back to when we played City during the pre season. When pressed and harassed, he'll make mistakes. Passes go astray and he's easily dispossessed. I recall Blink noticing how the majority of great passes we saw in those youtube clips over the summer were made under no pressure and defenders gave him loads of space. He knew he wouldn't that sort of time and space for us at Arsenal. It's a good observation because that's why he's not having the impact you expected. Wenger did say something weird about him being box to box but also said recently hat he is a deep laying player. He certainly doesn't play box to box for us and it has often been Coquelin pushing up further than Xhaka but that's in order to win the ball back early. Xhaka often sits deeper and I rarely see him burst from box to box.

If you had watched the first half of the City pre season game, you'd have seen how Xhaka struggled against the high press and we were boxed in for the first. Only until Elneny came on did we get a hold of the midfield and beat City. Xhaka would dwindle on the ball and have it pinched off his toes or get closed down when trying to sort his feet out. It's worth listening to Arsenal Vision podcast. They noticed this flaw in his game too and said it's down to him being so one footed and unwilling to pass the ball with his weaker foot. That's another good observation and explains why I have no faith in him playing against high pressing teams. If he receives it on his weaker side, he'll try to shift it to his left foot. It leaves him vulnerable and it looks like he's dwindling on the ball.

Xhaka was bypassed City's press in the first half on Sunday before the goal, so I dont know how true that statement is. He also played in the Bundesliga which is the league that presses the most and started the shift to organized pressing in football, so that aint true either.

And Arsenal plays a double pivot so both midfielders push up.

You watched the match on Sunday and saw us get outnumbered vs a midfield 3 with our two man midfield and Ozil and Iwobi swapping the 3rd midfield role but really being attackers. How can you see that, and see what happens against other teams with 3 man midfield in our big matches like Liverpool, PSG, and United. Even Southampton, and not think we should go with a 3 man midfield? The issue is Wenger doesnt know how to organize one properly, and Coquelin being awful versus one (City didnt even bother pressing him and double teamed Xhaka. Coquelin was absolutely horrendous on Sunday. He only completed 16/26 passes, and only 4/10 passes in the 2nd half.)

Make Ozil a forward and bring in a real 3rd midfielder and drop Coquelin. Id not even have a problem with Elneny because of his 1 touch passing because he gives an option.

On Sunday, we had to go with Coquelin due to injuries but going forward there needs to be a 3rd ACTUAL central midfielder in the team and Coquelin should not be one of them.

Not sure how you can conclude that I don't appreciate the intelligence of Theo, Iwobi and Ozil. I never once downplayed their intelligence. That statement in itself is just another demonstration of you undercutting Alexis. You're also playing semantics with this dropping back thing. His movement is what creates space for players to get in behind. He doesn't have to touch the ball. Rewatch Ozil's last goal with that header and assist from Ox. It's not just a case of it working against Chelsea. As said, we're seeing the fruits from that with the goals Theo, Ox, Iwobi and Ozil have scored this season. This is the most Ozil has ever scored in a season. Same goes for Ox.

I am saying it about Alexis because its what he does. He is a space eater.

I am not ignoring Theo and Ozil scoring off Alexis but they have adjusted to what he does. What he is doing now is not demonstrably different than when he was playing on the flanks, its just that its in the central channels now. Thats why I am saying to give the others credit because they are running into that vacated area. Less intelligent players ignore it.

As for Ozil scoring more goals, like I said prior he and Alexis have become something like a false 9 partnership.





At the end of the day, a lot of our fans, and the English speaking football media, love to shit on players. Its why you got that hack article from Barney Ronay, or the pathetic article about Arshavin being more productive than Ozil, etc. They also love runners, people who look like they are doing something. Its easier to see. Whats not easy is to take a look at the system. There is a systemic problem with this club's tactics. I do not have the answers but the man who is supposed to have the solutions also does not. This current system is not working and has not for some time. You can all sit here and scapegoat and blame top players who have shown top ability at other stops, but if they are shining elsewhere in bigger matches and failing here, who is the problem? Its been this way for a decade. Its not mentality, determination, pashun, physicality, or whatever nonsense cliches that the Ronay types like to say, or what you read from Arseblog. There is a tactical issue here. This team will never reach its potential until Wenger either changes his ways and starts implementing whats going on around him in Europe and starts using his players correctly, or he goes. Its that.

[Niall_Quinn]

There is a systemic problem with this club's tactics. I do not have the answers but the man who is supposed to have the solutions also does not. This current system is not working and has not for some time. You can all sit here and scapegoat and blame top players who have shown top ability at other stops, but if they are shining elsewhere in bigger matches and failing here, who is the problem? Its been this way for a decade. Its not mentality, determination, pashun, physicality, or whatever nonsense cliches that the Ronay types like to say, or what you read from Arseblog. There is a tactical issue here. This team will never reach its potential until Wenger either changes his ways and starts implementing whats going on around him in Europe and starts using his players correctly, or he goes.

This is what it all amounts to. A bad conductor can fuck-up the most adept orchestra, a bad choreographer can leave a prima ballerina on her arse, a football team coached by Wenger is going to be swimming in deep, deep shit. Whether they are strong enough individually to swim hard and prevail, well some of them can and some of them can't. The joke is the man looks set to get another 2 years, which means nothing changes. Get rid of Ozil, get a replacement in, same result.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I think the Xhaka box to box thing was one of the most bizarre comments Wenger has ever made.....

It couldn't appear more untrue.

[Power n Glory]

Thats why I said Xhaka is an ELITE deep lying playmaker being asked to play box to box.

He would get more touches if he was playing where he is elite on the pitch. Its like asking Ozil to be a left back.

That's why he's the wrong purchase. When we discussed Xhaka during the summer, I said I couldn't see the need for him. We don't thrive off long balls and it would mean altering how we play to accommodate his style. If were capable of dribbling through the lines like Santi and powering through the middle, I could see the point of him. But I didn't during the summer and still can't see the point of him now. He's not that good on defending either. 1/4 tackles vs City and we couldn't win the ball back from deep. I really don't know what Wenger was thinking when he bought him. I suspect a scout recommended him but in no way shape or form should he have been our first signing this summer. There is a much bigger gap to Santi and Xhaka. Chalk and cheese.

Speaking of Coquelin, yes, he's a limited player with his passing. But until Xhaka and Elneny figure out how to win the ball back, we're stuck. That was the problem against City. We couldn't win the ball back in the 2nd half. You saw the first goal and I have no idea what Xhaka was doing. He rushed around like a headless chicken whilst they passed the ball from man to man.



Xhaka should have won the header easily enough from the goal kick. He was under no pressure. But he just runs around in circles whilst they ping pong the ball around him. His attempts to cut out the passes were weak. He just flicks out a leg. Coquelin manages to get a good tackle in and if Xhaka had some more composure and positional sense, he could have recovered that ball. It was a great Flamini impression.

Even the second goal was a result of Xhaka. He mistimed pass goes out of play resulting in a throw in for City. It's not good enough. Basic stuff. So regardless of his best position, he's still a central midfielder and we're talking about a slight shift in positions not a complete shift like the Ozil/leftback example you've given. It shouldn't result in these sort of mistakes.

Make Ozil a forward and bring in a real 3rd midfielder .

Doesn't that just sum up the thread? Why even consider converting Ozil into a forward if what he was doing last season was so essential to our success? If he goes, we might as well bring in a proper forward. Heck, I'm not against playing Giroud with Sanchez behind him or having Sanchez play with Welbeck or Walcott ahead of him.

We don't play a 2 man midfield. Ozil is still an attacking AM. With Iwobi drifting in, it should provide an extra body. Ozil should still be able to drift back and steady the midfield when the going gets tough.

I am saying it about Alexis because its what he does. He is a space eater.

As for Ozil scoring more goals, like I said prior he and Alexis have become something like a false 9 partnership.

You're still not giving enough credit to Sanchez. Why wasn't Ozil scoring more goals with Giroud up front?

[Power n Glory]

I think the Xhaka box to box thing was one of the most bizarre comments Wenger has ever made.....

It couldn't appear more untrue.

It's very bizarre. I highly suspect somebody recommended him as a signing and once Wenger had him in a training, he wasn't impressed. We didn't need him and he hasn't enhanced our midfield play in the same way we've seen the major different Santi has made in that role. But the blueprint for the type of midfielder was here at the club before we moved Santi to that role in Rosicky. It took Wenger an age to play him there and instead preferred playing him wide. The mismanagement goes way back and he never gets it right.

It's an endless cycle with us. Find the right striker, mess up the midfield. Find the right midfield, mess up the strikers.

[Marc Overmars]

Ozil has said that he is willing to sign a new deal but wants clarity on Wenger's future first.

[LDG]

Ozil has said that he is willing to sign a new deal but wants clarity on Wenger's future first.

Arseblog straight in there with his "calm and considered" opinion. We should obviously get Wenger to sign to hold onto our best players.....so we can still underachieve.

Leicester proved that it's not all about star players. It comes from the manager first and foremost, and Wenger's chance came and went a long time ago.

What is it with this bloke? I know he wants us to do well, and I understand his worry about losing out best players. But he needs to stop being a big girls blouse and accept that change tales time, and the whole club needs to start again. If that means struggling for a while, so be it.

[Letters]

Ozil has said that he is willing to sign a new deal but wants clarity on Wenger's future first.

Interestingly, the article I saw this morning sounded like he wants to make sure Wenger is staying before committing to his future with us which shows that all the stuff about top players not wanting to play for him is nonsense.