Are the glory days over for good?

[Power n Glory]

I work for State farm.

In this place or any other client I have worked with, there are different departments. For example, if the IT department fails, the CEO of the company does not get fired, it is the manager of the IT dept!

Take Arsenal FC, the board is responsible for keeping the club in the green and they are doing a darn good job about it. They are also there to provide support to AW in every way and there has been no credible evidence of that being otherwise.. however AW is responsible for the football department and we are lacking in that. Who gets fired? Yup, Arsene it is..

Tell me in which football team the buck stops with the board? Unless the board is raping the club (like Newcastle or Man U), we should leave the board to do their job.

That leads me to seriously question what sort of work culture you have in UK! For every failure, you point the finger at the Board/CEO.. nice! Managers and workers are not liable for anything... UK has got to be the dream country for middle class slackers!

It's the same in the UK.

It’s funny because you’ve got people saying we’re punching above our weight and we’re having to deal with limited resources, 4th is good for us, etc….if that’s how they see it, then why talk of the Board being at fault for not firing Wenger?

For the first time in a long time, it looks like we’ll finish outside of the top four and if that happens, they’d be justified in firing him. But I’ve heard a lot of talk that sort of backs up why the Board haven’t fired or warned him, yet these same guys are critical of the Board, more so than Wenger.

[Letters]

No-one's said we're punching above our weight have they? They've said we can't compete with the sides who finished above us, we should be able to compete with anyone below us (I mean who finished below us last year) and till know we have.
We're historically a big club but then so are Spurs, so are Liverpool, so are Everton, and Newcastle actually if you look at ground size and history. Being a big club doesn't guarantee you a top 4 finish, there are a few other 'big clubs' all of whom have failed to consistently do so yet some people on here act like any idiot could keep us top 4. From the experience of other clubs attempts to do so - some of whom have spent big in the transfer market - that's clearly not so.

[Power n Glory]

No-one's said we're punching above our weight have they? They've said we can't compete with the sides who finished above us, we should be able to compete with anyone below us (I mean who finished below us last year) and till know we have.
We're historically a big club but then so are Spurs, so are Liverpool, so are Everton, and Newcastle actually if you look at ground size and history. Being a big club doesn't guarantee you a top 4 finish, there are a few other 'big clubs' all of whom have failed to consistently do so yet some people on here act like any idiot could keep us top 4. From the experience of other clubs attempts to do so - some of whom have spent big in the transfer market - that's clearly not so.

Don't lie.

You may not have used the exact words but that's what you've been implying. GB said we were punching above our weight. You've talked as if Wenger's pulled off a miracle by keeping us in the top four in the era of billionaire owners.

[Letters]

You may not have used the exact words but that's what you've been implying.

No, it isn't.

And if you're going to call me a liar then that's the end of this debate.

[Power n Glory]

No, it isn't.

And if you're going to call me a liar then that's the end of this debate.

I must be getting my wires crossed.

How many times did you and others mention top 4 as some sort of achievement over the past few pages while also pointing out how much other teams spend, our 'shoestring' budget, losing our invincible players and having to cope with a move to a new stadium? Is that just saying we've achieved inspite of the odds or 'punched above our weight'? Or am I using the wrong phrase here?

[Letters]

How many times did you and others mention top 4 as some sort of achievement over the past few pages while also pointing out how much other teams spend, our 'shoestring' budget, losing our invincible players and having to cope with a move to a new stadium? Is that just saying we've achieved inspite of the odds or 'punched above our weight'? Or am I using the wrong phrase here?

Top 4 IS an achievement. We are one of the clubs who have the resources to have a chance of a top 4 finish so in that sense we're not punching above our weight. But we have no divine right to be and stay there and other clubs who also have a lot of resources have spent far more than us in the transfer market to try and depose us and they've thus far failed to.

Winning the title would have been punching above our weight in the era of billionaire owners IMO - and a couple of times we've not been too far away from doing that, the frustrating thing about 'project youth' is it's a case of 'so near yet so far'.

Wenger HAS done well to build a good young side which has remained relatively competitive and stayed top 4. But he's done badly by not landing a few trophies despite being close to the title a couple of times and being in a few Cup finals since we last won something.

So no, I don't think Wenger has 'worked miracles' to keep us top 4 but we have no automatic right to be there and I think you're underestimating how difficult it is to keep a club there without a billionaire backer and especially during one of the most complex stadium moves any club has undertaken. A few clubs have spent big to try to achieve it and they've failed. It is an achievement which some on here belittle unfairly IMO.

Again: Middle ground.

[Power n Glory]

Top 4 IS an achievement. We are one of the clubs who have the resources to have a chance of a top 4 finish so in that sense we're not punching above our weight. But we have no divine right to be and stay there and other clubs who also have a lot of resources have spent far more than us in the transfer market to try and depose us and they've thus far failed to.

Winning the title would have been punching above our weight in the era of billionaire owners IMO - and a couple of times we've not been too far away from doing that, the frustrating thing about 'project youth' is it's a case of 'so near yet so far'.

Wenger HAS done well to build a good young side which has remained relatively competitive and stayed top 4. But he's done badly by not landing a few trophies despite being close to the title a couple of times and being in a few Cup finals since we last won something.

So no, I don't think Wenger has 'worked miracles' to keep us top 4 but we have no automatic right to be there and I think you're underestimating how difficult it is to keep a club there without a billionaire backer and especially during one of the most complex stadium moves any club has undertaken. A few clubs have spent big to try to achieve it and they've failed. It is an achievement which some on here belittle unfairly IMO.

Again: Middle ground.

I have no interest in talking to you about this after just conceding the point about 'punching above our weight'. You tried to move the goal posts and threw the toys out the pram when I told you to stop lying. No time for that.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It's the same in the UK.

It’s funny because you’ve got people saying we’re punching above our weight and we’re having to deal with limited resources, 4th is good for us, etc….if that’s how they see it, then why talk of the Board being at fault for not firing Wenger?

For the first time in a long time, it looks like we’ll finish outside of the top four and if that happens, they’d be justified in firing him. But I’ve heard a lot of talk that sort of backs up why the Board haven’t fired or warned him, yet these same guys are critical of the Board, more so than Wenger.

It is not a good post, and neither is yours.

Ultimate accountability rests with the Board. That they have presided over this mess is down to them. A change of Manager has been required for some time and it is down to them that this has not occurred.

And as for being 4th or better for 15 years, that is punching above our weight, but it put us in position to take steps that were within our resources to deliver at least a couple of titles, yet the steps taken have moved us decisively in the other direction. So much so, we are unlikely to challenge for a title for the forseeable future. Two prime reasons for such a prognosis, is that it is now prohibitively expensive to aquire the resources we need and, more damning - we are now unable to attract the resouces we need because of how we are perceived as a 'selling' Club that lacks footballing ambition.

This didn't just happen - most of us saw this coming for a long long time. Yet the Board not only presided over this strategy, they embraced it.

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger is responsible for creating a team that often displays a lack of even the most fundamental basics in football, and allowing the rot to take hold of the squad. However he's been allowed to do this by the people above him, he would have gone by now at any other club of a similar stature, but because the board are only interested in the money he makes them, via the selling of our best assets, he's been given their full backing.

4th place has been the clubs saving grace for years now, the fans have said for a while that it's probably not wise to take it for granted anymore, because it's pretty clear the landscape was changing around us. However it looks like the club was oblivious to this and continued their flawed policy because it made them a quick buck. I believe Gazidis when he said the club can cope without the CL money, because it means we'll probably sell someone to recoup that anyway.

[Power n Glory]

@GB ....You say we've been punching above our weight yet you say Wenger should have been fired a while ago. That doesn't make sense.

If you see it like that, then maybe the Board see it that way as well and think Wenger is doing an excellent job considering the circumstances and rather than give in and go the sugar daddy route, we've brought in people that can try to generate revenue with more sporting sponsorship deals and worldwide appeal. That's probably what Stan and Gazidis bring to the table. They probably think Wenger is 'punching above his weight' as well, which is why he hasn't been fired. This is the first time we've looked in real trouble to be fair.

I finding it hard to agree with you. Why should they have fired him he's overachieved? I don't hold that view, but if you do, how can they justify sacking him when he's delivered 4th everytime considering our resources?


I'm not looking at the financial state of the club when I say Wenger should be sacked. It's purely based on football. Chelsea and Man U may spend more than us, but we haven't lost titled because we've had to play them week in week out. It's the smaller teams we lose to and it's usually in some embarrassing manner which should have been ironed out on the training field. But, I don't think the Board look at it like that because they're not fans or know a great deal about football. How many Boards do?

Yes, the Board are accountable, but right now, they're trying to get through this tough and uncertain moment. They're not rocking the boat or busting Wenger's balls about trophies. If West Brom are in a relegation scrap but make it to the Carling Cup final, which one takes priority for the Board? They won't fire the manager for losing a final, that's for sure.