Wenger - does he even understand whats wrong?

[IBK]

Good points DV - but how do you explain that we had the requisite 'gamecraft' to arrive in March with our seaon very much intact, but then lost it thereafter?

When the mentality was right, but then wasn't, this to me would suggest that it is a question of fighting spirit or mentality. I accept that relevant experience may serve to help cope with pressure - but when you look at the fact that we had the ability to beat Manure in the middle of our disastrous run in (and I struggle to believe that that was solely down to the 'pressure' being off), to me you are looking at players who are treating the 'big games' differently from the so-called bankers. We saw this in the CC final - the beginning of the rot, and I feel that too many of our pampered players felt sorry for themselves/did not show up subsequently.

I am convinced that at least part of this problem is having mercenaries or pure 'professionals' of the type AW prefers, rather than players who realise what it means to play for the club; how much it means to the fans; a feeling of a common, rather than a purely selfish cause; an identity.

And while I agree with Letters that 'loyalty' is a thing of the past. Manure have shown season after season, that you can build the above attributes into your foreign contingent.

So we are back to my OP, and whether AW, with his background, really understands this (or has understood it up to this point). Because you can adopt a scientific; stats-based; professorial approach to the game and your signings - but the beauty of football is that passion; motivation; identity will make up the marging between winning and being an also ran.


PS Then again - if the rumours of Viera coming back in a coaching role turn out to be correct, maybe this penny has finally dropped for wenger.

[fari]

wow dude...you made some good points there. seems like you have really thought dispassionately and objectively about the situation. sometimes it's hard for us fans to do so. i too would like to see paddy v back at the club although what exactly his role would be remains to be seen (is he coming to coach youngsters or help with the 1st team???)

[IBK]

Another point that I think has been missed, is that for all his experience, AW simply hasn't faced this situation before. A situation where his methods/vision hasn't worked and he is under unprecedented pressure to deliver to the expectations of a big club (even though those expectations may be his own, more than the board's).

Monaco and Grampus 8 would not have brought this pressure. Prior to 2005 he was (SAF excepted) top of the tree. Post 2005 he could, until now, have been excused by virtue of his need to re-build.

He is now exposed, and must be feeling disillusioned and perhaps nonplussed as to how a team on which he has lavished so much effort and belief, and that undoubtedly had the footballing ability to succeed, failed so spectacularly. For me, it really isn't difficult to imagine him on the shakiest ground that he has been on, in terms of his own understanding of how to address the team's problems. All managers can bring in players. The big question is what AW is capable of doing in other areas - and whether he truly knows what to do. Because this ain't happened to him before.

[Darth Vela]

Good points DV - but how do you explain that we had the requisite 'gamecraft' to arrive in March with our seaon very much intact, but then lost it thereafter?

When the mentality was right, but then wasn't, this to me would suggest that it is a question of fighting spirit or mentality. I accept that relevant experience may serve to help cope with pressure - but when you look at the fact that we had the ability to beat Manure in the middle of our disastrous run in (and I struggle to believe that that was solely down to the 'pressure' being off), to me you are looking at players who are treating the 'big games' differently from the so-called bankers. We saw this in the CC final - the beginning of the rot, and I feel that too many of our pampered players felt sorry for themselves/did not show up subsequently.

I am convinced that at least part of this problem is having mercenaries or pure 'professionals' of the type AW prefers, rather than players who realise what it means to play for the club; how much it means to the fans; a feeling of a common, rather than a purely selfish cause; an identity.

And while I agree with Letters that 'loyalty' is a thing of the past. Manure have shown season after season, that you can build the above attributes into your foreign contingent.

So we are back to my OP, and whether AW, with his background, really understands this (or has understood it up to this point). Because you can adopt a scientific; stats-based; professorial approach to the game and your signings - but the beauty of football is that passion; motivation; identity will make up the marging between winning and being an also ran.


PS Then again - if the rumours of Viera coming back in a coaching role turn out to be correct, maybe this penny has finally dropped for wenger.

Fair point, I think it's something we need more of but if it was working at one point then it does suggest something just turns off in our players heads when the pressure is on rather than an all-round failure. Agree with the rest of what you said, although fwiw I think some of the younger guys have more of an idea of what it requires and what is expected, guys like Szczesny and Wilshere, with Lansbury maybe coming into the first team squad, how much that's worth when they're still only young I don't know though. I think it may have been something of an oversight from Wenger, he obviously understands the part that mentality takes in football so you'd think he'd know a little about the passion and drive although guys who are that driven about something often assume those around them are as driven without seeing the truth that it's not standard issue to everyone.

[budesonide]

Another point that I think has been missed, is that for all his experience, AW simply hasn't faced this situation before. A situation where his methods/vision hasn't worked and he is under unprecedented pressure to deliver to the expectations of a big club (even though those expectations may be his own, more than the board's).

Monaco and Grampus 8 would not have brought this pressure. Prior to 2005 he was (SAF excepted) top of the tree. Post 2005 he could, until now, have been excused by virtue of his need to re-build.

He is now exposed, and must be feeling disillusioned and perhaps nonplussed as to how a team on which he has lavished so much effort and belief, and that undoubtedly had the footballing ability to succeed, failed so spectacularly. For me, it really isn't difficult to imagine him on the shakiest ground that he has been on, in terms of his own understanding of how to address the team's problems. All managers can bring in players. The big question is what AW is capable of doing in other areas - and whether he truly knows what to do. Because this ain't happened to him before.

He tried the same experiment with monaco after he won the ligue 1 with them. Suffice to say he was sacked when he turned them into a journeymans club like he's done with us. He soon found himself in the backwater of football management in the japanese league where david dein got him.

[IBK]

That bodes well, then!

[Cripps_orig]

Tottenham Hotspur defender William Gallas believes Arsene Wenger made a mistake in letting him leave Arsenal.
Gallas departed Emirates Stadium for bitter rivals Spurs last summer after failing to agree a new contract with the Gunners.
And the 33-year-old demonstrated he can still cut it in the Premier League following a solid debut season at White Hart Lane.
Of his decision to part company with the Gunners, Gallas told L'Equipe: "I left Arsenal because we could not agree on a financial level.
"They decided to not make the effort to keep me, it is a choice I respect, and they respected the fact I didn't want the wages they proposed.
Wrong

"In the street, Arsenal's fans asked me why I left. The coach thought I was a finished player. I proved he was wrong."
Gallas endured a controversial time at Arsenal, in particular during his period as captain of the club.
Reflecting on his much-publicised clashes with a number of his former Gunners team-mates, he said: "When I was captain I wanted to give a message, but they didn't get it.
"I may have been clumsy, but the substance was right.
Ugly duckling

"I came from Chelsea where I won titles, and I wanted to share my experience, because I thought we missed commitment in our work.
"My message has not been understood and I am also responsible for that. But unfortunately the last season showed that team still misses something.
"It is too easy to say all the Arsenal problems came from William Gallas."
Gallas also commented on his relationship with French compatriot Samir Nasri, the pair having fallen out after a dispute over France's Euro 2008 campaign.
He stated: "Samir Nasri? People tried to show me as an ugly duckling, but the images showed the contrary. Samir Nasri knows the problem. He can't lie to himself."

Didnt want to start a new thread but i agree with Gallas.

Wenger made a mistake letting him go. He played well for Spuds and hes better than all of our CBs

[selassie]

Didnt want to start a new thread but i agree with Gallas.

Wenger made a mistake letting him go. He played well for Spuds and hes better than all of our CBs

IMHO He's not better than Vermaelen, but I agree he's better than everybody else.

I think Kos or Djourou have some way to go before they get to his level.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Didnt want to start a new thread but i agree with Gallas.

Wenger made a mistake letting him go. He played well for Spuds and hes better than all of our CBs

Wengers Mistake was not replacing him/ not letting him go. Had we replaced with with a top notch CB Gallas would still be an after thought.

[Cripps_orig]

Wengers Mistake was not replacing him/ not letting him go. Had we replaced with with a top notch CB Gallas would still be an after thought.

Well we did buy 2 CBs last summer

They did well.....