If we don't finish 4th, do you want Wenger to leave at the end of the season?

[Niall_Quinn]

The ultimate WUM to Cesc.

And Wenger to Barca, plus our board goes as part f the deal? Genius. And likely to happen.

[IBK]

I am known for my wumming. No, I am being serious - by Wenger's own admission getting fourth is compulsory and we're seeing exactly the same things we have seen for many seasons. It might not get any better with a new manager, it could even worse but at least we would have tried something new - we've been crying out for Wenger to do that but for whatever reason, he hasn't been.

I agree with you. If we finish outside the top 4 it will merely be concrete evidence of our decline under AW, and it won't get any better under him. Of course that's a risk with a new manager, but this season will have shown that Wenger's philosophy and methods won't cut it with us any more.

[Syn]

I don't know what to make of Arsene right now. He cares a lot for the club - more than any other manager would for his club IMO. He's obviously an intelligent guy. But he makes a lot of stupid decisions. Some of them might be forced - I still believe that, having built a squad with the quality of strikeforce of Wiltord, Henry, Bergkamp and Kanu, he knows the value of a good striker. He knows that Chamakh, Walcott, Gervinho are not near the same calibre. But even if his hands are tied a bit, any self-respecting man would not agree to be the fall guy just so he can have £5m a year shoved in his mouth. So those are the two ideas I'm trading off. I can't decided where the truth is along those two points. But I'm not liking what we're seeing.

[Coney]

I don't know what to make of Arsene right now. He cares a lot for the club - more than any other manager would for his club IMO. He's obviously an intelligent guy. But he makes a lot of stupid decisions. Some of them might be forced - I still believe that, having built a squad with the quality of strikeforce of Wiltord, Henry, Bergkamp and Kanu, he knows the value of a good striker. He knows that Chamakh, Walcott, Gervinho are not near the same calibre. But even if his hands are tied a bit, any self-respecting man would not agree to be the fall guy just so he can have £5m a year shoved in his mouth. So those are the two ideas I'm trading off. I can't decided where the truth is along those two points. But I'm not liking what we're seeing.

I hear what you say about not knowing what to make of Wenger. My thoughts are along the following lines..

You decide you need a bigger better modern stadium. You don't want to bust the club in the process. You want to build a team from young talent developed yourself, building a conquering side for a decade and more. All very fine and laudable.

However, the rest of the world moves on and things don't quite work out after a few years of trying. Meanwhile, the financial position improves.

Having seen (he and Gazidis implied) last season that things were not working out as planned, he said there would be a new approach. Fine. Nasri/Cesc issues made it difficult to sort out the midfield issues till last minute, though Arteta was a solid buy and something we have needed - experience. The defenders bought seemed to fit the bill.

However, Arshavin and Walcott have failed to produce goals, something you expect of attacking midfielders. They have had years to adapt and build up but this season, they have manifestly failed to deliver and it is time to call time on them. If Wenger spends NOW - this window - on buying players who can finish, I'll give him more time as it will show he has reacted to the situation. But if he persists with these players who have had more than enough chances to show they can deliver, then I think it will mean he is clinging onto the old dream and not accepting he has to move on. And if that is the case, it is time for the Arsenal to spend, not just on players, but on a new manager. He has a couple of weeks left to convince me that he has adapted.

[gunnerrrrr]

i have supported Wenger through thick and thin....even got into a punch up with a Manc back in 2007 over my opinion that he was the best coach in the world.

However what is now clear as day is this guy is not the same Wenger who created and moulded the great Arsenal sides upto the Invincibles.

We now have a very stubborn, overtly opinionated, ego driven manager who believes eveything he says is right and it should be his way or no way.
The guys refuses to change and adapt to football and what really makes me think this is even Mourhinio came out and said that no matter how well you tactically prepare, genius football players can change a game.

I believe Wenger used to believe this, hence the reason we saw him bring in Henry, Cesc, Pires, Vieria, Overmars, Petit, RVP etc etc

However looking at our players now, how can Wenger look at Theo, Asharvin, Chamack, Squilachi, Rosicky, Arteta, Ramsey, Diaby, Gervhinio etc and say that these guys are really top top class...world class and win take us to the top.

Its about more than money...its his stubborn nature, look at Oxo, Ryo, Park etc, he refuses to give them a chance and yet will keep on playing the predicatble and awful Asharvin, Chamack etc.

Wenger as a coach, he is still one of the best, but as a manager of a top football club, unless he admits that he needs to adapt...i am sorry he is past it.

[Marc Overmars]

I hear what you say about not knowing what to make of Wenger. My thoughts are along the following lines..

You decide you need a bigger better modern stadium. You don't want to bust the club in the process. You want to build a team from young talent developed yourself, building a conquering side for a decade and more. All very fine and laudable.

However, the rest of the world moves on and things don't quite work out after a few years of trying. Meanwhile, the financial position improves.

Having seen (he and Gazidis implied) last season that things were not working out as planned, he said there would be a new approach. Fine. Nasri/Cesc issues made it difficult to sort out the midfield issues till last minute, though Arteta was a solid buy and something we have needed - experience. The defenders bought seemed to fit the bill.

However, Arshavin and Walcott have failed to produce goals, something you expect of attacking midfielders. They have had years to adapt and build up but this season, they have manifestly failed to deliver and it is time to call time on them. If Wenger spends NOW - this window - on buying players who can finish, I'll give him more time as it will show he has reacted to the situation. But if he persists with these players who have had more than enough chances to show they can deliver, then I think it will mean he is clinging onto the old dream and not accepting he has to move on. And if that is the case, it is time for the Arsenal to spend, not just on players, but on a new manager. He has a couple of weeks left to convince me that he has adapted.

Isn't that the same clingy excuse people haul out for him all the time though?

The mantra is essentially admitting things aren't working out, yet there is always this extra patience found when people say they're waiting to see if he's prepared to change things up - knowing full well anything out of the ordinary is unlikely to happen.

Where does the line get drawn and when is enough, enough?

[Coney]

Isn't that the same clingy excuse people haul out for him all the time though?

The mantra is essentially admitting things aren't working out, yet there is always this extra patience found when people say they're waiting to see if he's prepared to change things up - knowing full well anything out of the ordinary is unlikely to happen.

Where does the line get drawn and when is enough, enough?

For a while, after the window closed and we finally had bought some players that gave the team some backbone, things were looking up. I had hoped that with a better defence, the midfield would be more attacking and then some confidence would come into the team. If the strike force stopped snatching at their shots and played them with more confidence, we would not be in this position. Walcott and Arshavin have not taken the great opportunity they have been given. Had they done so, this result would not have happened - or others over the last few matches - and we would be praising Wenger's great management.

I said in summer that this season would be the one where Wenger needs to show he has given up on the pure form of his plan and that he must buy and keep experienced players. He seemed to be beginning to do that. If he continues to do so over this window by buying to correct our inablility to score (bar RvP) then I will be OK with it. But he gets another couple of weeks from me before I give up on the most successful manager we ever had.

Why so long? Some of us had to wait 18 years before seeing us win a title - from Oct 1971 to 1989 for me - so a mere 5 years is nothing!

[Cripps_orig]

Voted no

He should go now

[Ralpheroo72]

Seriously though, a lot as happened at Arsenal over the last couple of years. Just none of it on the pitch. Huge changes. Some Yank in, the board pissed off with all the money, dodgy deals to grease the pay day, bitch fights between the pigs to see who got what. How can anyone ignore all this when wondering what the fuck is going on with this club? Wenger showed that eye-gouging stubbornness again today and he's done it so many times that maybe he should pay the price. But let's not forget about the cunts who have actively set out and managed to succeed in destroying this club. The greedy cunts have had their rewards, and then some. They didn't even leave a few scraps behind. Don't see why they get a free pass.

Top post! This club is in serious decline, and its a sad day when we get beat by a team like Swansea. Exactly 6 years ago today, we thumped Middlesbrough 7-0. Example of our sharp decline.

[Marc Overmars]

For a while, after the window closed and we finally had bought some players that gave the team some backbone, things were looking up. I had hoped that with a better defence, the midfield would be more attacking and then some confidence would come into the team. If the strike force stopped snatching at their shots and played them with more confidence, we would not be in this position. Walcott and Arshavin have not taken the great opportunity they have been given. Had they done so, this result would not have happened - or others over the last few matches - and we would be praising Wenger's great management.

I can't get on board with this. The forward deficiencies are not down to bad luck or anything like that, Theo, Arshavin etc have been poor all season but Wenger has persisted with them time and time again, he's shown a crazy unwillingness to use certain other options at his disposal. Of course if they pulled their weight we'd be signing a different tune, but you can paint any type of picture you want with ifs and buts, it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

I said in summer that this season would be the one where Wenger needs to show he has given up on the pure form of his plan and that he must buy and keep experienced players. He seemed to be beginning to do that. If he continues to do so over this window by buying to correct our inablility to score (bar RvP) then I will be OK with it. But he gets another couple of weeks from me before I give up on the most successful manager we ever had.

Ok he made signings in the summer, even though they were obviously enforced. Those signings probably rescued us from midtable nothingness - but only put us back on par with proceedings. If Cesc and Nasri were still here, we'd still be talking about big signings to kick us to the next level. If nothing happens over the next couple of weeks then what? In May we will be talking about giving him another summer before judging him in August, and the cycle begins again.

Why so long? Some of us had to wait 18 years before seeing us win a title - from Oct 1971 to 1989 for me - so a mere 5 years is nothing!

Old fuck.