Match reacton thread Vs Swansea

[Niall_Quinn]

I would like to see us practise and master our passing, crossing and shooting. I'd like our players to decide on one style of football, either simple and efficient or overly complicated and based on percentages (I'd prefer the former myself). I'd like to see our players maybe leaving Twitter aside for a while and instead studying the game afterwards to see where they went wrong and how they can improve. Then I'd like them to remember what they have seen and work hard to ensure they don't make the same mistakes again. I'd like them to stop appearing in the newspapers talking about how Henry will revitalise the team, or how we're on the verge of becoming a super team and instead watch them do all their talking on the pitch. I'd like them to earn the huge amount the are handed each week by giving these things back to the fans who have to dig deep in a time of recession to pay to watch the team. I'd like to hear the fans stop telling Wenger how to run the team and instead try to figure out why he's running the team the way he is and then get behind him. If he fucks it up then I'm happy to hear the fans voice their concerns in the summer when these things can be more properly addressed. I'd like to see the fans listen to a legend like Thierry Henry and take his advice. I believe if the players did all this and the fans did all this the club would be in a much better place and surely that's what both the players and the fans want.

[Power n Glory]

I would like to see us practise and master our passing, crossing and shooting. I'd like our players to decide on one style of football, either simple and efficient or overly complicated and based on percentages (I'd prefer the former myself). I'd like to see our players maybe leaving Twitter aside for a while and instead studying the game afterwards to see where they went wrong and how they can improve. Then I'd like them to remember what they have seen and work hard to ensure they don't make the same mistakes again. I'd like them to stop appearing in the newspapers talking about how Henry will revitalise the team, or how we're on the verge of becoming a super team and instead watch them do all their talking on the pitch. I'd like them to earn the huge amount the are handed each week by giving these things back to the fans who have to dig deep in a time of recession to pay to watch the team. I'd like to hear the fans stop telling Wenger how to run the team and instead try to figure out why he's running the team the way he is and then get behind him. If he fucks it up then I'm happy to hear the fans voice their concerns in the summer when these things can be more properly addressed. I'd like to see the fans listen to a legend like Thierry Henry and take his advice. I believe if the players did all this and the fans did all this the club would be in a much better place and surely that's what both the players and the fans want.

It's not possible for the playere to organise themselves and decide on their style of play. That sort of instruction comes from the manager. You've missed Wenger out in that post. He has to show some leadership. That sounds like some self sufficient system where a manager isn't needed. I don't think young and inexperienced players can simply correct their mistakes without being told and shown how.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

It's not possible for the playere to organise themselves and decide on their style of play. That sort of instruction comes from the manager. You've missed Wenger out in that post. He has to show some leadership. That sounds like some self sufficient system where a manager isn't needed. I don't think young and inexperienced players can simply correct their mistakes without being told and shown how.

when your on the pitch you don't need your manager to tell you how to shoot or pass a ball, its common sense.

[Power n Glory]

when your on the pitch you don't need your manager to tell you how to shoot or pass a ball, its common sense.

Then maybe Wenger shouldn't take such credit for the players he's developed, now should he?

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not possible for the playere to organise themselves and decide on their style of play. That sort of instruction comes from the manager. You've missed Wenger out in that post. He has to show some leadership. That sounds like some self sufficient system where a manager isn't needed. I don't think young and inexperienced players can simply correct their mistakes without being told and shown how.

I'm not talking about formation or tactics. I'm talking about the basics of football, something a good few of our players seem to struggle with - some of them struggle year after year. They are very noisy off the pitch but are close to silent on it. I find the blame everything on Wenger idea, from the finances to Theo Walcott's inability to pass a ball, to be ludicrous. If we are really going to look at what's going on at Arsenal then let's do that instead of honing in on one aspect and trying to contort it into every possible shape to fit every possible scenario. 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1, we only have one striker! What difference does it make. The others couldn't reliably hit the ocean from the beach and I;d like to know why that is and why it doesn't seem to be improving. If Wenger sends the team out with instructions to pas to the opposition, make it as complicated as possible in the final third and lash the ball 30 yards over the goal at every opportunity then fine, sack him. Is that what he does?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'm not talking about formation or tactics. I'm talking about the basics of football, something a good few of our players seem to struggle with - some of them struggle year after year. They are very noisy off the pitch but are close to silent on it. I find the blame everything on Wenger idea, from the finances to Theo Walcott's inability to pass a ball, to be ludicrous. If we are really going to look at what's going on at Arsenal then let's do that instead of honing in on one aspect and trying to contort it into every possible shape to fit every possible scenario. 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1, we only have one striker! What difference does it make. The others couldn't reliably hit the ocean from the beach and I;d like to know why that is and why it doesn't seem to be improving. If Wenger sends the team out with instructions to pas to the opposition, make it as complicated as possible in the final third and lash the ball 30 yards over the goal at every opportunity then fine, sack him. Is that what he does?

[Power n Glory]

I'm not talking about formation or tactics. I'm talking about the basics of football, something a good few of our players seem to struggle with - some of them struggle year after year. They are very noisy off the pitch but are close to silent on it. I find the blame everything on Wenger idea, from the finances to Theo Walcott's inability to pass a ball, to be ludicrous. If we are really going to look at what's going on at Arsenal then let's do that instead of honing in on one aspect and trying to contort it into every possible shape to fit every possible scenario. 4-4-2, 4-3-3, 4-5-1, we only have one striker! What difference does it make. The others couldn't reliably hit the ocean from the beach and I;d like to know why that is and why it doesn't seem to be improving. If Wenger sends the team out with instructions to pas to the opposition, make it as complicated as possible in the final third and lash the ball 30 yards over the goal at every opportunity then fine, sack him. Is that what he does?

NQ if your interested in seeing why things aren't working on the pitch then your going to have to start looking at each players strengths and weaknesses. Practice can only go so far and the one thing we need to realise is that certain players aren't built to play in certain key positions. If you can't dribble, you have no business playing on the wings and it's a waste of time trying to build on that skill set when that particular player has spent his whole life training in another position. What your suggesting is oversimple.

When we play Stoke City, do you think the manager is going to try and out play us and get his players practicing intricate passes and dribbling techniques? No. The sign of a good manager is working with the tools he has and putting it to good use. Certain managers know they have a limited lump on the field that will neve be world class but they can at least make them effiecient and useful for the team. That's all I want Wenger to do but this obsession with getting turning everyone on the field into a complete player is overindulgent. It's so bad, our defenders have to have some sort of technique and passing skill because Wenger won't allow them to boot the ball clear.

It's a jack of all trades but master of none type of situation. I'm not saying they shoudln't practice, just saying of you look at the strengths and weaknesses of certain players, you start seeing why they suck in certain positions. When you start looking at things like that, then you get on to formations and stuff like that. Don't dismiss that sort of thing. It's why the English league and national team has lagged behind for so long. There is a lack of respect for it and seem to thing everything boils down to passion and energy. I don't think we have a lazy team our there. It's just energy being wasted.

[Niall_Quinn]

NQ if your interested in seeing why things aren't working on the pitch then your going to have to start looking at each players strengths and weaknesses. Practice can only go so far and the one thing we need to realise is that certain players aren't built to play in certain key positions. If you can't dribble, you have no business playing on the wings and it's a waste of time trying to build on that skill set when that particular player has spent his whole life training in another position. What your suggesting is oversimple.

When we play Stoke City, do you think the manager is going to try and out play us and get his players practicing intricate passes and dribbling techniques? No. The sign of a good manager is working with the tools he has and putting it to good use. Certain managers know they have a limited lump on the field that will neve be world class but they can at least make them effiecient and useful for the team. That's all I want Wenger to do but this obsession with getting turning everyone on the field into a complete player is overindulgent. It's so bad, our defenders have to have some sort of technique and passing skill because Wenger won't allow them to boot the ball clear.

It's a jack of all trades but master of none type of situation. I'm not saying they shoudln't practice, just saying of you look at the strengths and weaknesses of certain players, you start seeing why they suck in certain positions. When you start looking at things like that, then you get on to formations and stuff like that. Don't dismiss that sort of thing. It's why the English league and national team has lagged behind for so long. There is a lack of respect for it and seem to thing everything boils down to passion and energy. I don't think we have a lazy team our there. It's just energy being wasted.

I'm not saying the game ends with the players being able to kick a ball. But I think they ought to be able to do that before getting into the more complicated stuff. It's unreal how poor we are in the final third this season.

You give Theo the ball in acres of space on the flank and he doesn't need to dribble or beat anyone. But when he has time and space he still can't deliver. You talk about trying him in the central role, but on the few occasions he's played there, mostly for England, he's looked hopelessly out of his depth and his movement is predictable and unintelligent. Yes I know he scored that hat-trick. Maybe it would have been better for him if he never had. Players like RvP, Aguero and still Henry by the look of it have the smarts to find the space, to offer themselves to the midfielder or wide man trying to feed the ball through. You watch Chamakh and Walcott in the box. If there's a wrong place and a wrong time they'll find it.

As for Arshavin, if he can't be bothered doing the leg work on the flank then why is he going to run twice as hard behind the main striker? We could try it I suppose. How many games of him doing nothing would it take to call it a bust? Nobody is judging these guys on a few performances. It's over seasons now, they just haven't been performing at a level that's going to move the team beyond the ordinary we've seen over and over. They are random, inconsistent, unconvincing, they quit, they become anonymous in games. Now and again they pull something out of the bag that reminds us there's talent there but that just makes it all the more frustrating. Saying they are playing out of position doesn't explain their lack of character on the pitch. Unless you think they are sulking, in which case they should get the fuck out anyway.

What I'd like is for the board and the manager to get together in the summer and bring some proper talent in to help the handful of decent players we have. And I'd like to see plenty of players shipped out in that process. But I honestly don't think that's going to happen (apart from players being shipped out, the decent ones anyway). Transfer profits have been squirrelled away for how many years now? Time to put something back in because our quality has dropped well below the danger level.

I'm not against mixing things up a bit in the meantime but with players like Walcott, Chamakh, Arshavin and increasingly Gervinho (although it's his first season so maybe judgement is reserved) I just don't see it making much difference. And we also have players like Wilshere who was run into the ground, now the same thing is happening to Ramsey. We're short of decent players. We all know it and somebody needs to do something about it.

It'll be crazy if we don't get a striker in this window to help RvP out. Even a journeyman, anyone who knows how to do the basics, has a bit of experience and could nick a few goals. Then ship Theo and Arshavin out in the summer and get decent replacements. I know both of these guys provide assists, but they also fuck it up at a rate of 5-1 and that's why we've been throwing the points away again this season. Not because Theo is playing out of position, but because he's just not that great a player.

The real problems may still be ahead. Statistically RvP is unlikely to go the full season uninjured. What the fuck are we going to do if we lose him? Then we'll have to call on Theo or Arshavin or Chamakh or Park. The fact I have more faith in Park (which is close to none at all), a guy that hasn't played so far says it all really.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not saying the game ends with the players being able to kick a ball. But I think they ought to be able to do that before getting into the more complicated stuff. It's unreal how poor we are in the final third this season.

You give Theo the ball in acres of space on the flank and he doesn't need to dribble or beat anyone. But when he has time and space he still can't deliver. You talk about trying him in the central role, but on the few occasions he's played there, mostly for England, he's looked hopelessly out of his depth and his movement is predictable and unintelligent. Yes I know he scored that hat-trick. Maybe it would have been better for him if he never had. Players like RvP, Aguero and still Henry by the look of it have the smarts to find the space, to offer themselves to the midfielder or wide man trying to feed the ball through. You watch Chamakh and Walcott in the box. If there's a wrong place and a wrong time they'll find it.

As for Arshavin, if he can't be bothered doing the leg work on the flank then why is he going to run twice as hard behind the main striker? We could try it I suppose. How many games of him doing nothing would it take to call it a bust? Nobody is judging these guys on a few performances. It's over seasons now, they just haven't been performing at a level that's going to move the team beyond the ordinary we've seen over and over. They are random, inconsistent, unconvincing, they quit, they become anonymous in games. Now and again they pull something out of the bag that reminds us there's talent there but that just makes it all the more frustrating. Saying they are playing out of position doesn't explain their lack of character on the pitch. Unless you think they are sulking, in which case they should get the fuck out anyway.

What I'd like is for the board and the manager to get together in the summer and bring some proper talent in to help the handful of decent players we have. And I'd like to see plenty of players shipped out in that process. But I honestly don't think that's going to happen (apart from players being shipped out, the decent ones anyway). Transfer profits have been squirrelled away for how many years now? Time to put something back in because our quality has dropped well below the danger level.

I'm not against mixing things up a bit in the meantime but with players like Walcott, Chamakh, Arshavin and increasingly Gervinho (although it's his first season so maybe judgement is reserved) I just don't see it making much difference. And we also have players like Wilshere who was run into the ground, now the same thing is happening to Ramsey. We're short of decent players. We all know it and somebody needs to do something about it.

It'll be crazy if we don't get a striker in this window to help RvP out. Even a journeyman, anyone who knows how to do the basics, has a bit of experience and could nick a few goals. Then ship Theo and Arshavin out in the summer and get decent replacements. I know both of these guys provide assists, but they also fuck it up at a rate of 5-1 and that's why we've been throwing the points away again this season. Not because Theo is playing out of position, but because he's just not that great a player.

The real problems may still be ahead. Statistically RvP is unlikely to go the full season uninjured. What the fuck are we going to do if we lose him? Then we'll have to call on Theo or Arshavin or Chamakh or Park. The fact I have more faith in Park (which is close to none at all), a guy that hasn't played so far says it all really.

Theo and Arshavin play important roles but it's not why we're losing games. Poor defending and losing control of the middle of the park has cost us dearly. The centre and defence are real problem areas. See, Arshavin and Theo can have performances like that did against Swansea for the majority of the game, but the one moment they get right that leads to goals should be enough to get us all three points if we can defend the lead.

In the final third we are poor because we have Gervinho, Walcott or Ramsey always finding themselves in the position to deliver but they fail because they don't have the skill for it. Play someone in that position that can can deliver and he'll make the right choice and excute the right sort of pass. There is a reason why Song bombs forward so often. When he gets into that position he can delivery. Not all the time but at a more consistent rate than the other bozos I mentioned. BUT, he's a defensive midfielder and how often can be get into those positions?

It's the same for Walcott and Arshavin. How many times will we see situations where Walcott gets a ball player into space and he's playing off the shoulder of a defender. How many times do we get to see Arshavin drift into a more central position to play in a nice through ball? Playing from the left means he needs to drift in and that means leaving the left back exposed and Miquel was exposed badly the other day. If we're bad in the final third then we should be looking to get our better passers into position where they can be more influential. Arshavin would be more effective in the centre and wing play is more demanding than a central role behind the striker. Well, stamina wise.

Wenger has played these guys in the same position for years and it hasn't worked. He should try something else or bench them and that's his call to make. That's why a lay a lot of the blame on him. We're not coaches over here but we watch enough of our team and know enough to see that where they are playing isn't working. He didn't have to start them either. Ox or Henry could have played and that's why I'm going to lay a lot of the blame on him. It's been 7 years now. He picks the teams and plays them there. He chose to buy Gervinho. You mentioned Sessegnon you the other day and I've been a fan of his since seeing him play in the Emirates cup. Wenger must have known about that guy but he chose to stick with what we have. That guy wouldn't have cost millions in transfer fee or wages.

I just can't excuse Wenger for these sort of decisions. We've been through many different players and this is like his 5th team since the invincibles. It's the same trademark in every team. We lost against newly promoted Hull on one season and I can't remember which team it was but I remember Toure getting done over by some newly promoted team as well. That was 5 or 6 years ago and the team has had a face lift and Botox since then. But it's the same shit. Same problems and you have to start looking at the constants.

We've had these problems before Theo and Arshavin arrived and if I remember correctly it's been around this sort of time we've been struggling in the league and had to buy both players just to help us qualify for a Champs League spot. It's Wenger.

[Kano]

Theo and Arshavin play important roles but it's not why we're losing games. Poor defending and losing control of the middle of the park has cost us dearly. The centre and defence are real problem areas.

the fb situation is killing us. we have players being dragged out of their positions from the centre of defence and central midfield trying to help out and leaving massive gaps everywhere. i thought miguel was awful on sunday (of course he's not a left back i know) but the space behind him and dj was shocking. and the opposition know it, the 3rd goal game down his side and both against fulham. so we had kos and the bfg covering areas they shouldn't be, song trying to do everything and ramsey? well. he had an absolute shocker, he's worst of the season and he's been deteriorating game on game.