Arsene to "rise above" fan nonsense

[Unai Tea]

Hmmm. Not so sure mate. Arsenal have McDonald'sed it up over the last 20 years, but prior to that, being a football club wasn't ALL about making money and business. You paid your entrace fee, yes, but it didn't go on transfers and wages and super-stadia. Local communities set up the club, and participated in activities WITH the club, WITH the players, be it at the pub, watching them play etc. The gate money was part of your membership to keep the club running.

It's called a club for a reason. It's like local sports and social clubs we go to, to watch our kids play, to have a game of snooker, to socialise.

Arsenal Football Club was built with that purpose in mind. It's more tribal than it is a hyperreality. Your Hyperreality is all about todays game, in the here and now, and what football is as a global brand.

You pay no heed to tribal instincts, like it is to be a patriot for example. And you ignore how the club has been built, how communities come together, how friends are made, and also how players react to that. It's only players of the last few years who have no concept of what it was to be part of a club, are money and trophy obsessed that back your view up. Not the teams gone by who lived and breathed their club, often staying for their career, and interacting with local communities.

It is a real relationship. A social one and a tribal one. Maybe not to the tourist of today's game, but certainly fromyears gone by....and that element still remains.

There is an issue of scale and level of commercialisation here. Those who theorise about hyperreality provide examples of what it is...disneyland being a common example. But between Disneyland and taking your kid to the park to have a go at the swings there is a middle ground. Where the relationship between fans and a sporting club lie on that scale is hard to know really. The more removed one is from the actual preparation and putting on an event/spectacle and the more one is a consumer held at arm's length, the more it looks like a hyperreality. As you suggest there are also other things to weigh up - tradition, history, tribalism/regionalism etc. There are a lot of different elements and there really isn't a simple answer nor is it simple to unravel the relationship/dialogue that goes on between a saint/demogogue/icon/sports star/sports club, etc and their adherents.

The only reason I threw that concept out there was to provide counterbalance to the perspective that we, the fans, are somehow at the centre of it all and should have, or have a right to have, a say about how things go. We are not unimportant but by the same token, we are not all important either. And while we are essentially consumers and choose to be so, although we'd not necessarily characterise it as such, most of us also do have a real emotional investment. Having said that I also have real emotional investment in some books, video games, films etc.

[LDG]

There is an issue of scale and level of commercialisation here. Those who theorise about hyperreality provide examples of what it is...disneyland being a common example. But between Disneyland and taking your kid to the park to have a go at the swings there is a middle ground. Where the relationship between fans and a sporting club lie on that scale is hard to know really. The more removed one is from the actual preparation and putting on an event/spectacle and the more one is a consumer held at arm's length, the more it looks like a hyperreality. As you suggest there are also other things to weigh up - tradition, history, tribalism/regionalism etc. There are a lot of different elements and there really isn't a simple answer nor is it simple to unravel the relationship/dialogue that goes on between a saint/demogogue/icon/sports star/sports club, etc and their adherents.

The only reason I threw that concept out there was to provide counterbalance to the perspective that we, the fans, are somehow at the centre of it all and should have, or have a right to have, a say about how things go. We are not unimportant but by the same token, we are not all important either. And while we are essentially consumers and choose to be so, although we'd not necessarily characterise it as such, most of us also do have a real emotional investment. Having said that I also have real emotional investment in some books, video games, films etc.

[Özim]

I think what people might find is that if these sorts of policies and ideas continue the stadium will no longer be close to full, you can't keep insulting people's intelligence and treating them like meaningless idiots forever when they're hundreds or thousands of pounds to watch a game.

The fact is if the fans voted with their feet and didn't pay to go an watch matches you'd be seeing changes I guarantee it and by that token they are all important. We don't play great football, we don't have many top players, we don't spend on quality players and we don't achieve any success, when you're paying the kind of money the club demands after a while these issues will lead to people turning away.

It's the fans that let the club get away with this sh*t at the end of the day, it's sad that the board and manager can be so patronising and insulting to the people who put money in their pocket really.

You want to see what happens to clubs without many fans who turn up to game, look at MK Dons or Wimbledon as they use to be, they had to sell alll their best players to survive until they got relegated, now they're in a lower league with next to no money and next to no chance of ever getting back into the PL.

[Xhaka Can’t]

que?

[Özim]

que?

quoi?

[Xhaka Can’t]

quoi?

si, I mean oui.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I think what people might find is that if these sorts of policies and ideas continue the stadium will no longer be close to full, you can't keep insulting people's intelligence and treating them like meaningless idiots forever when they're hundreds or thousands of pounds to watch a game.

The fact is if the fans voted with their feet and didn't pay to go an watch matches you'd be seeing changes I guarantee it and by that token they are all important. We don't play great football, we don't have many top players, we don't spend on quality players and we don't achieve any success, when you're paying the kind of money the club demands after a while these issues will lead to people turning away.

It's the fans that let the club get away with this sh*t at the end of the day, it's sad that the board and manager can be so patronising and insulting to the people who put money in their pocket really.

You want to see what happens to clubs without many fans who turn up to game, look at MK Dons or Wimbledon as they use to be, they had to sell alll their best players to survive until they got relegated, now they're in a lower league with next to no money and next to no chance of ever getting back into the PL.

Wrong, the fans are putting money into the club they love, thats why they continue to go and support their team instead of slamming them on MB's.

[Özim]

si, I mean oui.

Nein

[Özim]

Wrong, the fans are putting money into the club they love, thats why they continue to go and support their team instead of slamming them on MB's.

I'm sorry but there comes a point when people are taking the p*ss out of you that if you have an ounce of intelligence you react to that. Fans won't keep turning up if things continue, regardless of the love for the club, money doesn't grow on trees.

[Coney]

Nein

Da