Match Reaction: Bayern Munich 5 Arsenal 1

[fakeyank]

The amount of thrashings we've had in the last 10 years is embarrassing, the fact we now accept them is even more embarrassing, at no point is getting thrashed acceptable, we're suppose to be challenging the best.

I agree with this. We are 'supposed' to have moved to Emirates to challenge the very best in the world, and yet we are ok with excuses like "It's a very good Bayern side etc etc etc". If you are charging one of the highest ticket prices in football, then your football better show that as well. While I was fairly certain we'd lose this game, I didnt expect us to get arse fucked again.

I am ok with us putting all our eggs in the PL basket, but I also know that our manager will do piss all to mitigate our deficiencies in terms of tactics or buying new players.

[Kano]

I don't think Wenger's a great master tactician, there have been times when we've been caught with our pants down because we've had injuries and just let the replacement players go out and try to play the same way (most embarrassingly the 8-2 at OT, of course *shudder). And maybe there was a touch of that on Wednesday, but I think a lot of it was just getting beaten soundly by a very good side - as I said earlier in the thread they've been hammering pretty much everyone at home, they average more than 4 goals a game there. I'm not sure it deserves much more analysis than that.

We've picked ourselves up after other poor midweek games to win at the weekend, hopefully we'll do the same this time.

Bayern are an excellent side. A few steps away from the CL and claiming a certain level of greatness. They've battered Dortmund, their closest domestic rivals this season and of course did the same (under a different manager and with a different approach) to Barca a few years back. A frightening prospect when on their game.

They were smart on Wednesday, in that they drew us out into the game, allowing us some time on the ball in the first 10/15, affording them space to come forward and lure our players into a false sense of being able to take the game to them, which they exploited fully.

But. We didn't defend as well as the first game at all, we had no out ball beyond lumping it to Giroud and hoping Ozil could do something with the scraps. He was shifted out to the left wing by Bayern so his threat became minimal. We didn't defend as a unit as we did last time round, partly because of Bayern allowing us time to come forward and hitting in behind us but mostly because our team, as a unit, left too much space between defence and midfield. No pace. All of which falls onto the managers head for being non-reactive.

In isolation a battering can be wiped away but we have been asked to forget far too many of them over the years. Sure, the teams have been different but the manager hasn't and that is the reason why we will remain susceptible to a good kicking most seasons, whether it be domestic or continental. Quite often you have compared us to our rivals in the PL to add a positive outlook on our situation and so you can't escape the fact that none of them have suffered the number of beatings we have. Chelsea, Utd and City. Hardly any humiliations and more trophies. There is a link there surely.

I'm sure we'll pick ourselves up and beat Tottenham this weekend but the manner and number of these defeats shows a pattern, an inherent problem that constantly undermines us. Fans can forget it and move on but it must stick in the players mind, especially those that have been here and faced similar kickings. All of which must eat into their confidence and performance levels over time and when the league is a long, draining campaign, these thrashings will of course have an effect. How can they not? Wenger has always preached that doing well in one comp helps the other. Momentum, one game at a time and all that 'in the game' shit. And we'll have good runs, pretty looking calendar years that distort the argument but our season runs for 9 continual months, not broken up by 3 months of summer time.

[Letters]

Wenger keeps setting records on how bad a result we can get.

Making stuff up

EDIT: He also 'keeps' setting records in the FA Cup but yeah, let's focus on the negative, as always.

As for whether we'll win the league, that remains to be seen but your predictions so far about our 'poor' start haven't stacked up. Right now we're in contention, that's all you can ask at this stage. We've shown we can win big games, we've shown we can win trophies, we've finally got enough world class players to give us a chance. Let's see what happens. If we're champions come May I won't be crying about a bad result away against a side as good as Bayern.

[Niall_Quinn]

Making stuff up

EDIT: He also 'keeps' setting records in the FA Cup but yeah, let's focus on the negative, as always.

As for whether we'll win the league, that remains to be seen but your predictions so far about our 'poor' start haven't stacked up. Right now we're in contention, that's all you can ask at this stage. We've shown we can win big games, we've shown we can win trophies, we've finally got enough world class players to give us a chance. Let's see what happens. If we're champions come May I won't be crying about a bad result away against a side as good as Bayern.

Nobody is crying about anything. People are pointing out the flaws in our manager and how they surface repetitively. I said a while back we might win a title Liverpool with Suarez style. Not early Wenger style though, or Utd when they were in charge style, or even the shitty chavs when they were unbeatable at home style. All those teams had an authority about them. We do sometimes too, on a good day. But on a bad day

The manager is the problem. This squad probably is good enough to win a title. We just need that final piece in place.

[Letters]

So the solution is to get a different manager with different flaws? Probably more serious ones - a lot of the people touted as possible replacements on here haven't been tearing it up anywhere else. Even Saint Jose is coming unstuck this season - he's a good manager, clearly, but such a horrible **** that it seems no-one can stick working with him for long. We have bad days, sure. So does every team. The question is will we have enough of them to stop us challenging. We haven't so far, or rather our bad days have been in Cup competitions mostly, we've had a couple of bad league results too but every team gets those. For now, we're challenging. For now that's enough.

Wenger's won us 3 titles, he's been somewhat hamstrung by the stadium in the last 10 years right at the time the billionaires have been running amok. I honestly think without that we'd have won some more titles in the last decade. With the new financial deals we're finally more able to compete and signings like Ozil, Sanchez and Cech have made a clear difference - and shown that the idea that Wenger hates spending money is a myth. We should have challenged last year but we got off to a bad start and gave ourselves no chance before we'd got going. Should Wenger have been sacked for that? Arguably, but the FA Cup win bought him some more time. This year it's time to challenge properly. We are so far - despite some people's early season predictions. Keep doing so and I'll believe we have a chance. If we don't challenge properly this season then I agree he should be sacked but he's earned the right to try IMO.

[Power n Glory]

We have a chance of winning the league and it's even better than the chance we had when Fergie retired and we had just bought Ozil. Utd are still struggling for form but still in the race. But we have nothing to fear from them. Chelsea are in bad shape. Liverpool are in transition. City are the odds on favs to win the league but they have flaws too. We should be in with a chance but I'm not as optimistic because of the lack of signings and injury problems. Bayern are a very good side and I won't read too much into the defeat but we went out there with the wrong attitude. Wenger is going to have to whip his players into shape for key moments in the season or the wheels will fall off. If the players need to step their game up and be consistent, he has to step his game up and not do the usual he does every season. His man management, motivation and tactics have to be stretched. He can't do what he's been doing for the past 10 years and expect things to fall into place for us.

[Xhaka Can’t]

We have a chance of winning the league and it's even better than the chance we had when Fergie retired and we had just bought Ozil. Utd are still struggling for form but still in the race. But we have nothing to fear from them. Chelsea are in bad shape. Liverpool are in transition. City are the odds on favs to win the league but they have flaws too. We should be in with a chance but I'm not as optimistic because of the lack of signings and injury problems. Bayern are a very good side and I won't read too much into the defeat but we went out there with the wrong attitude. Wenger is going to have to whip his players into shape for key moments in the season or the wheels will fall off. If the players need to step their game up and be consistent, he has to step his game up and not do the usual he does every season. His man management, motivation and tactics have to be stretched. He can't do what he's been doing for the past 10 years and expect things to fall into place for us.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

NQ, we don't play football in a vacuum, where the other team aren't able to prepare heavily themselves to counter our (probable) team or adapt accordingly to whatever tactics we're employing on the pitch at the time.

Nor are all our players emotionless drones who will follow every single instruction given to them throughout the 90 minutes without fail.

It's not Wenger's fault that Gabriel had a moment of hesitation and then was too slow in trying to to play Lewadonski offside which resulted in him scoring the first goal. Sure it may have looked in hindsight that not pressing Thiago was mistake, but if Gabriel did his job properly the ball would have floated harmlessly to Cech or Lewadonski would have been ruled offside and if would been another example of our tactics resulting in meaningless sterile possession from Bayern.

I don't think there was anything wrong with the tactics we employed per say, we just executed them extremely poorly with too many individual mistakes which cost us goals. The first goal coming as early as it did, also didn't help things as it seemed to kill some of our resolve.

The only thing I kind of agree with you is that we should have played Gibbs to give us some much needed pace up front, however at the expense of Campbell who looked out of his depth.

I think you're being incredibly harsh here on Wenger ..... this is some of the severest WOB stuff I've seen around on the internet and I often follow some of the prominent Arsenal accounts on twitter.

Honestly, I'm surprised you're not a treble winning manager yourself if it's as straightforward as you make out.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yeah, we just have to suck it up.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why do you have to be a treble winning manager to spot a young player getting murdered? In fact, why can't a manager with Wenger's credentials spot that and react accordingly? And why can't he predict it in the first place? It's not my amateurism that's the problem, it's his.