So, how do WE win the league?

[Ernesto]

There are some excellent points here. My personal view is that we CAN actually compete and win the league WITHOUT spending obscene amounts of cash. My reasoning isn't unfounded- we beat off stiff financial competition from Man Utd, Newcastle and Liverpool to win the league in '98. It is possible, and money isn't everything. Case in point, I didn't ever think Chelsea would finish as low as 6th in the league under Roman Abramovich's ownership.

Now, the problem we have is certainly the way we play. Tactically inept. Defenders who aren't taught to 'defend', the way we were so accustomed to. Midfielders who will HARDLY ever win an aerial challenge. Set-pieces that always come to NOTHING.

Mentality is also key. I don't think we're capable of doing anything "special" under Wenger to win a league title (yes, I say that very brazenly, given our success in 03/04) What I mean to say is, are we capable of scoring 2 goals in injury time to win the league? Is it in our reach to beat Barcelona, or to dwell on stupid refereeing mistakes? Can we go on a 10-game winning streak, like in the late 90s, and actually beat teams that we're meant to beat on paper? Can we bounce back after a demoralising defeat and batter the team we next play?

I don't know. These are 'Wenger traits' as I like to call them. There isn't much we can deduce until we under new managership. It's time to stick or twist, although 'twisting' may present one of our worst seasons in decades (I'm talking Alex McLeish proportions)

[Tipsychubbs]

Title says how do we win the league, Man city spending billions will stop us simple as that. We won't win the league until things become fair. But we won't even challenge for the league till wenger and the board buck up the ideas its a simple as.

You sound like Wenger, making excuses because of City's money. Chelsea were in this position a few years ago, Man U still won the league, with money they generated not from billionaires.

Man City's/Chelsea's spending doesn't excuse a manager from utilizing the resources he's got in a most effective way. All those expensive player contracts we have on young players/deadweight players who are not worth it, that money can be spent on strengthening the team.

Man City's/Chelsea's spending doesn't excuse a manager from not blending youth with more experience so he wouldn't 'kill' the likes of denilson and diaby.

Man City's/Chelsea's spending doesn't excuse a manager from being a good tactician on the pitch, with disciplined players that know their roles, a recognition of an opposing team's strengths and weaknesses which you can take advantage of etc.

Man City's/Chelsea's spending doesn't excuse a manager from motivating the team to have a never say die attitude, and a professional attitude towards seemingly 'easy' opponents.

We didn't need a billion to win the league in 2004 and we don't need to now. With wise and sensible acquisitions without overspending and sound management we'd be up there challenging too.

We were conned into the idea of a new stadium that would allow us to compete with the top clubs, more than 6 years later, we should be generating a decent amount of income (with manageable and sustainable debt payments that should not be impacting too hard on the pitch) to do reasonably well, from money we have generated without a sugar daddy, like Manchester United. I use the word conned because our ticket prices are some of the highest in the league. Man U took them to the last game of the season, why can't we if the right decisions were made? I'm not trivialising the issue, it isn't easy to remain competitive against bottomless pockets, but impossible? Nah.

[Niall_Quinn]

We were conned into the idea of a new stadium that would allow us to compete with the top clubs

Very much so, when all it really did (in conjunction with other activity) was bloat the share price and make it ripe for a pay day for the scummy shareholders. No other manager in the world could have met the expectations of that board so precisely. But you have to give Wenger credit for keeping us near the top of the table too because there are plenty who would have got us relegated under the operating conditions of the last five years. It's all down to one man now, Stan. If he's in this for the money AND the sport we are in a position to kick on (certainly thanks in part at least to Wenger, e.g. Koscielny, Jack, Ox, persisting with Theo, shifting RvP), but if he's in it just for the MONEY then expect another 5 years of gloom and Wenger to leave next year to be replaced by possibly a 100% business focused manager. Fact is our fate rests in the hands of an American who knows nothing about and seems to care nothing for the game.

[Özim]

Very much so, when all it really did (in conjunction with other activity) was bloat the share price and make it ripe for a pay day for the scummy shareholders. No other manager in the world could have met the expectations of that board so precisely. But you have to give Wenger credit for keeping us near the top of the table too because there are plenty who would have got us relegated under the operating conditions of the last five years. It's all down to one man now, Stan. If he's in this for the money AND the sport we are in a position to kick on (certainly thanks in part at least to Wenger, e.g. Koscielny, Jack, Ox, persisting with Theo, shifting RvP), but if he's in it just for the MONEY then expect another 5 years of gloom and Wenger to leave next year to be replaced by possibly a 100% business focused manager. Fact is our fate rests in the hands of an American who knows nothing about and seems to care nothing for the game.

You make Wenger sound like some kind of victim, the guy gets 7 odd million a year to do this, he's just as big a part of this problem as the board. A manager interested in winning wouldn't have sold out like he has, noone has forced him to stay and if he wasn't happy and really is the victim as you seem to suggest then why wouldn't he leave.

As for no other manager meeting their expectations, you're probably right because other than someone greedy they'd have probably not been happy with settling for 3rd/4th and would have demanded more from the board and maybe left by now.

Any manager with any real pride and a hunger for success would never have lasted 7 years being happy with a top 4 place.

[Niall_Quinn]

You make Wenger sound like some kind of victim, the guy gets 7 odd million a year to do this, he's just as big a part of this problem as the board. A manager interested in winning wouldn't have sold out like he has, noone has forced him to stay and if he wasn't happy and really is the victim as you seem to suggest then why wouldn't he leave.

As for no other manager meeting their expectations, you're probably right because other than someone greedy they'd have probably not been happy with settling for 3rd/4th and would have demanded more from the board and maybe left by now.

Any manager with any real pride and a hunger for success would never have lasted 7 years being happy with a top 4 place.

How do I make him sound like a victim? It's got nothing to do with greed OBVIOUSLY. He could have been on twice the cash at Madrid. It's to do with the fact Wenger and the board see eye to eye. But added to the finances (which have been made paramount) Wenger has also been able to keep the team near the top of the table, that's just a fact.

[Özim]

How do I make him sound like a victim? It's got nothing to do with greed OBVIOUSLY. He could have been on twice the cash at Madrid. It's to do with the fact Wenger and the board see eye to eye. But added to the finances (which have been made paramount) Wenger has also been able to keep the team near the top of the table, that's just a fact.

He has yes, but it's shameful that as a supposed top manager he settles for this year on year and seems smug about it as if it's some major trophy. He picks up his 7 million pound cheque every year and as he's said before he makes the club money so that's all that matters.

Does he deserve credit for doing what he has, debatable after all it's the fact that he's happy with winning nothing nd getting top 4 every season that leaves us where we are, yes he talks about titles and the CL, but with the way he goes about his business that's an impossible task moreover a trophy he use to once upon a time hail as great is now but an annoying distraction.

IMO you make him sound like a victim by saying he's done a very good job under the conditions, but he's the one that accepts them and never challenges himself.

[Ollie the Optimist]

He has yes, but it's shameful that as a supposed top manager he settles for this year on year and seems smug about it as if it's some major trophy. He picks up his 7 million pound cheque every year and as he's said before he makes the club money so that's all that matters.

Does he deserve credit for doing what he has, debatable after all it's the fact that he's happy with winning nothing nd getting top 4 every season that leaves us where we are, yes he talks about titles and the CL, but with the way he goes about his business that's an impossible task moreover a trophy he use to once upon a time hail as great is now but an annoying distraction.

IMO you make him sound like a victim by saying he's done a very good job under the conditions, but he's the one that accepts them and never challenges himself.

yes of course he is happy, he never gets angry or anything on the touchline when we fuck up when challenging, he just sits there. he doesnt show emotion etc. my god you talk utter bullshit at times

[Niall_Quinn]

he makes the club money so that's all that matters

That's the job he has been asked to do. That's the job the shareholders would have asked any manager to do. Legally it was their club and they decided to milk it for all the cash they could get. Wenger had two options, do they job they instructed him to do or resign. But if you get a new manager doesn't he get faced with the same simple choice? Do what the shareholders want or fuck off. After that it comes down to who can at least stop the looting having a dramatic effect on our league position.

[Özim]

yes of course he is happy, he never gets angry or anything on the touchline when we fuck up when challenging, he just sits there. he doesnt show emotion etc. my god you talk utter bullshit at times

A bit of frustration that he soon forgets, all of which is eventually followed by the smug proud moment when he can finally talk about achieving a top 4 place. In reality his actions on the touchline are very hollow. A winner tries to change things and improve, someone that truly hurts and wants desperately to win would do more than sit on the touchline whispering a few angry words and wave his arms a few times.

[Niall_Quinn]

A bit of frustration that he soon forgets, all of which is eventually followed by the smug proud moment when he can finally talk about achieving a top 4 place. In reality his actions on the touchline are very hollow.

He gets banned for his hollow protests.