Are the doubters wrong about Wenger?

[Power n Glory]

That's my point though, that's your belief...it's not something you have substantive to back that up with

My belief is that we don't have that much money to spend and that the money budgeted for a striker was spent on Ozil, that's why any signing made in the transfer window in January was going to be on loan?.

Is that the case?...i don't know....i am specculating...but that's exactly what your doing. The point is i criticise the man based on facts, not on what surmising what the facts might be. Therefore I criticise his lack of progress over the last nine years, i don't feel the need to critcise everything that comes out of his mouth.

As i've said, it's only my opinion but i feel that he is stagnant, few managers short of Ferguson could be at a club as long as AW and not become stagnant...he's given us all he's got and it's not enough anymore. He's too old to change, his mistakes are becoming more obvious and he doesn't even seem to enjoy what he does anymore.
I feel people like you are more adverse to him on a personal level and over analyze everything he says so you can come back and use it as a stick to beat him with. Again i could be wrong, but that's my perception...but you seem to think your "perceptions" of events valid, so why shouldn't mine be?

How has anything said about Wenger been personal? I'm having a debate with you about what I see going on at the club and how I perceive our state of affairs. The problem a lot of you guys have, is when long winded debates like these occur, you misconceive a thorough argument with being personal. I'm not sticking the knife in on Wenger, this is one conversation, about one particular topic that's probably gone on for too long and now you think it's personal. It's far from it. I'm simply stating that you can see Wenger's philosophy and character throughout the club and there on the pitch.

Flip this conversation on to a more positive note regarding what he's said about how he views football and the way we play, I doubt there would be such resistance to such a very simple point. For example, if we were to look at what Wenger has to say about the beauty in football, attacking football, total football, technical players...etc...I doubt those would be batted away as if he's just talking and none of it's reflected on the pitch or related.

[fakeyank]

He did at Inter, whilst it wasn't in the same amount of what he spent at Chelsea and Real Madrid it certainly wasn't a shoe string budget he had.

Muntari, Motta, Sneijder, Eto'o, Lucio, Milito...net spending of about 60-70 million, gross spending of about 130million.

60-70 million over 3 years is very good amount. A club of our size or Inter's size should not be looking at that and calling that "billionaire spend". I agree that he spent a lot at Real and Chelsea, and why wouldnt he, if they have the capability? He spent according to the clubs resources... and guess what? He won the CL with the two clubs he spent the least with.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

60-70 million over 3 years is very good amount. A club of our size or Inter's size should not be looking at that and calling that "billionaire spend". I agree that he spent a lot at Real and Chelsea, and why wouldnt he, if they have the capability? He spent according to the clubs resources... and guess what? He won the CL with the two clubs he spent the least with.

That plus the money spent by his predecessor that allowed Inter to take full advantage of the fall out of the calciopoli scandal.

I am not trying to ridicule his achievements, in all honesty Inter and Porto are examples of where he has performed better as a coach without silly money to spend. I just don't and won't ever buy the suggestion that he's the best manager in the world. He's a very good manager whose achievements stood out at a time when there weren't so many managers at his level.
Currently there are great coaches of the elk of Diego Simeone, Jurgen Klopp, Pep Guardiola, Carlo Ancelotti who for me are in and around the same level as him but no where near the level of arrogant self-regard. For me the great managers are the ones who build a dynasty at the one club so I'm sorry to say for me Mourinho will never be the same standard of old whiskey cheeks. I despised Whiskey cheeks but there was no doubt in my mind possibly the greatest manager of all time and no one will emulate his success at Old Trafford.

[Power n Glory]

Fergie is overrated. Man Utd are one of the richest clubs in England and if not for Chelsea and City, they’d still be the most financially minted and powerful clubs in England. If we’re going to bring finances into the Jose debate, it’s only fair to acknowledge the resources Fergie had access to during his reign with Manure. Man Utd’d dominance can be compared to Bayern’s dominance. I expect a good manager to win trophies if given enough time and resources and Fergie had his pick of the best talent in England and could bid for players in Europe most clubs couldn’t even dream of. British transfer record after record. Jose club hops but I think that’s the nature of football these days. You won’t find many managers that are given decades at one club. Ancelotti is a good manager but he’s done his fair share of club hoping lately.

[Kano]

Fergie is overrated. Man Utd are one of the richest clubs in England and if not for Chelsea and City, they’d still be the most financially minted and powerful clubs in England. If we’re going to bring finances into the Jose debate, it’s only fair to acknowledge the resources Fergie had access to during his reign with Manure. Man Utd’d dominance can be compared to Bayern’s dominance. I expect a good manager to win trophies if given enough time and resources and Fergie had his pick of the best talent in England and could bid for players in Europe most clubs couldn’t even dream of. British transfer record after record. Jose club hops but I think that’s the nature of football these days. You won’t find many managers that are given decades at one club. Ancelotti is a good manager but he’s done his fair share of club hoping lately.

yet no manager was able to win the title for utd for how many years? any other club can generally be rated as absolute cunts but credit where credit is due. ferguson was an outstanding manager. i'm hard pressed to think of many others who could get that current squad to win the league. they have become one of the most dominant forces in world football because of fergie. if he is overrated, who would you say is better and worth the praise lavished upon them?

[Power n Glory]

Were they always the richest club? Wasn’t it during the Premiership years and when floated on the Stock Exchange that the gap between them and other clubs increased and they dominated the early 90s? We’re not going to play a game of ‘name that manager’ but in my opinion, if you’re going to talk about Jose and his spending, you can’t rule that out for Fergie.

[Kano]

Were they always the richest club? Wasn’t it during the Premiership years and when floated on the Stock Exchange that the gap between them and other clubs increased and they dominated the early 90s? We’re not going to play a game of ‘name that manager’ but in my opinion, if you’re going to talk about Jose and his spending, you can’t rule that out for Fergie.

i think what gets peoples back up is not only the spending but the crude style of football Jose plays. he has had the money at his disposal to purchase the creme of attacking players but his teams continually play the dullest football imaginable. At least City are giving it a go with being entertaining. Stacked up against the constant big mouth moans off the pitch whilst his teams drill their way to success, season after season, Jose brings the criticism upon himself. He has no excuse to spend so much yet produces such droll football. Fergie made the most of his money, of course his team were minted but you can at least offer a begrudging note of admiration for someone who has something to show for all the money spent.

[Letters]

I don't think any manager who had that level of success for that long - especially in an era in which the billionaires have built ridiculous squads - can be said to be over-rated. And yes, he had a lot of money to spend but Utd won the title last year with a squad nowhere near as good as Chelsea or City, you have to give Fergie a lot of credit for that especially as this year the same set of players will probably finish outside the top 6.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

United's on the field success under Ferguson allowed them to become a bigger and bigger global brand and arguably he was spending the money that he had been influential in generating. Don't get me wrong, United were always a big rich club but the extent of what they've been able to spend is down to what sponsorship deals etc they have been able to harvest from on the pitch success, plus the money they have made from constant champions league qualification.
And whatever we think of Wenger, it's fair to say that when he goes he leaves the club in a monumentally better state than it was in when he joined us. And to dismiss and downplay his role in that would be grossly unfair.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Fergie is overrated. Man Utd are one of the richest clubs in England and if not for Chelsea and City, they’d still be the most financially minted and powerful clubs in England. If we’re going to bring finances into the Jose debate, it’s only fair to acknowledge the resources Fergie had access to during his reign with Manure. Man Utd’d dominance can be compared to Bayern’s dominance. I expect a good manager to win trophies if given enough time and resources and Fergie had his pick of the best talent in England and could bid for players in Europe most clubs couldn’t even dream of. British transfer record after record. Jose club hops but I think that’s the nature of football these days. You won’t find many managers that are given decades at one club. Ancelotti is a good manager but he’s done his fair share of club hoping lately.