Summer Transfer Shit and Everything Else

[Marc Overmars]

Now would be a good time to start this.

It is thought that West Ham will sell Rice to a CL club for 120m. :lol:

Probably a saga that will drag on but I would quite like him tbh.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Fuck that….don’t rate Rice…the 120 million is a passport tax for being English

Caicedo should be who we go for

A better player who clearly fits our style

[selassie]

Now would be a good time to start this.

It is thought that West Ham will sell Rice to a CL club for 120m. :lol:

Probably a saga that will drag on but I would quite like him tbh.

I think Rice is a really good player and it would be a massive statement signing for us but.....the fees being banded about are crazy. I understand all the usual nonsense with buying English players from within PL, but i think Rice is a max 80m player given his current contract situation and his desire to leave.

I want us to pursue him but not if it means we blow our budget on him and neglect other areas of the team.

Also, I think Rice may end up going to Man City. Talks that West Ham like Kalvin Phillips and City want rid, he could be used in the deal to bring Rice to City and Phillips to West Ham.

[Mac76]

Buy:

Caicedo
Another CB
Another striker

Keep:

Balogun
Nelson
Tierney

Sell:

Holding
Vieira
Tavares
Nketiah
ESR
Zinchenko

[HCZ_Reborn]

Buy:

Caicedo
Another CB
Another striker

Keep:

Balogun
Nelson
Tierney

Sell:

Holding
Vieira
Tavares
Nketiah
Zinchenko

I’d add Xhaka and Elneny to the sell list and bring in another midfielder (which don’t see happening) but largely I agree

[Mac76]

I’d add Xhaka and Elneny to the sell list and bring in another midfielder (which don’t see happening) but largely I agree

I'd keep Xhaka but not have him as an automatic starter, he'd be useful in lesser cup games and against certain teams

Elneny ilkewise has hi uses adn tbh he's almost certainly on a pretty cheap contract

but i forgot to say i'd sell ESR - have added him now...

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'd keep Xhaka but not have him as an automatic starter, he'd be useful in lesser cup games and against certain teams

Elneny ilkewise has hi uses adn tbh he's almost certainly on a pretty cheap contract

but i forgot to say i'd sell ESR - have added him now...

I think Smith Rowe is more valuable to us than Xhaka and Elneny. In that I don’t think anyone else could substitute for Odegaard in his position…Trossard possibly but he’s more of a naturally wide player.

[Mac76]

I think Smith Rowe is more valuable to us than Xhaka and Elneny. In that I don’t think anyone else could substitute for Odegaard in his position…Trossard possibly but he’s more of a naturally wide player.

For me ESR is a player who is a real question mark, due to injuries and consistency, but as he has talent and is English we could get a good price for him right now, before he gets too much of a reputation for being injury-prone

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

£120m for Rice is insane..makes no sense paying more than £80m for anyone doing his role IMO.

I mean £120m and adding a bit of change we could make teue statement signings like Osimehen, Kvaradona or even Bellingham.

The Hammers obviously don't want to sell and will lose him for change later.

[IBK]

For me ESR is a player who is a real question mark, due to injuries and consistency, but as he has talent and is English we could get a good price for him right now, before he gets too much of a reputation for being injury-prone

I can see that argument, but I do think his valuation has dropped since his eye catching season last season, and I still feel that on the basis of this he has potential to improve and be an option in our team. It's sad that he was regarded as one of our top talents (and a fan favourite) just a year ago - and worrying that Arteta no longer seems to fancy him for whatever reason.

[HCZ_Reborn]

£120m for Rice is insane..makes no sense paying more than £80m for anyone doing his role IMO.

I mean £120m and adding a bit of change we could make teue statement signings like Osimehen, Kvaradona or even Bellingham.

The Hammers obviously don't want to sell and will lose him for change later.

I think signing a striker from another league is always a bit of a risk. We got lucky with Auba but for every Auba there’s a Timo Werner. Even Haaland for City wasn’t no risk even considering the relatively low fee because there was no guarantee he’d adapt to the premier league the way he has

Bellingham I would sign for silly money because he would be exceptional addition to our team

[Marc Overmars]

We’ve been linked with Cancelo. :lol:

Tierney to City has also been suggested.

[Mac76]

Tierney to City has also been suggested.

If true, that tells you everything you need to know about how dumb we'd be to let him go

[IBK]

If true, that tells you everything you need to know about how dumb we'd be to let him go

Unfortunately, I don't think it will be the club's decision. It will be Tierney's. I think he is too good to be a bit part player with us, and will want to go where he can be a first team regular.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Unfortunately, I don't think it will be the club's decision. It will be Tierney's. I think he is too good to be a bit part player with us, and will want to go where he can be a first team regular.

I’m not Tierney’s biggest fan, I think he’s injured far too often…and when he’s fit it takes far too long for his form to hit the peak of what we can expect from him.

That he has been superseded by Zinchenko is utterly absurd. Zinchenko works only if you’re dominating on the ball and even then his tendency to take too many touches and give the ball away in dangerous areas is troublesome. And that’s before getting into the fact that he’s a horrendously big liability when we don’t have the ball…and doesn’t even seem to understand what the role of a left back is.

His purchase was made on the hubristic assumption that no matter who we play we would dominate possession, well we are not going to dominate possession away from home against city, Liverpool or arguably Tottenham, Chelsea, Newcastle. We simply do not have the central midfield for that…and against City we are never going to control possession whether home or away they are just too good for that…it’s like expecting to control possession against Guardiola’s Barcelona team or Guardiola’s Bayern team.

We didn’t need an inverted left back, we needed a player who would sit deeper when we didn’t have the ball and be able to tackle and put in a shift more consistently than Granit Xhaka appears willing or able to do.

[Mac76]

I’m not Tierney’s biggest fan, I think he’s injured far too often…and when he’s fit it takes far too long for his form to hit the peak of what we can expect from him.

That he has been superseded by Zinchenko is utterly absurd. Zinchenko works only if you’re dominating on the ball and even then his tendency to take too many touches and give the ball away in dangerous areas is troublesome. And that’s before getting into the fact that he’s a horrendously big liability when we don’t have the ball…and doesn’t even seem to understand what the role of a left back is.

His purchase was made on the hubristic assumption that no matter who we play we would dominate possession, well we are not going to dominate possession away from home against city, Liverpool or arguably Tottenham, Chelsea, Newcastle. We simply do not have the central midfield for that…and against City we are never going to control possession whether home or away they are just too good for that…it’s like expecting to control possession against Guardiola’s Barcelona team or Guardiola’s Bayern team.

We didn’t need an inverted left back, we needed a player who would sit deeper when we didn’t have the ball and be able to tackle and put in a shift more consistently than Granit Xhaka appears willing or able to do.

almost completely correct and very well expressed - I love the 'hubristic assumption' point

Except you're wrong about Tierney, the Newcastle game shows exactly what he can bring to the party

I suspect the injuries are at least partly down his not being played enough. Currently he gets virtually no game time with us, then is suddenly made to play 180 minutes for Scotland over three days (which was the last time he got injured btw), or thrown into games where we're desperately defending a lead

[Mac76]

Unfortunately, I don't think it will be the club's decision. It will be Tierney's. I think he is too good to be a bit part player with us, and will want to go where he can be a first team regular.

It's been the club's decision in the sense if he'd been given more game time and Arteta had handled him better he wouldn't be wanting to go

[FootieJohn909]

I know this is complete irrelevant to the subject but how have you commented or posted 30,127 times? I mean thats pretty crazy

[Marc Overmars]

Xhaka expected to leave for Leverkusen. :wave:

Rice or Caicedo in please.

[Letters]

I’m glad he’s leaving having somewhat redeemed his reputation.
I like him but he’s not really at the level we need if we’re going to push on

[Chippy]

Xhaka expected to leave for Leverkusen. :wave:

Rice or Caicedo in please.

No thanks. £120m for Rice? What a joke. Not worth £50m tbf.

[Marc Overmars]

No thanks. £120m for Rice? What a joke. Not worth £50m tbf.

Hard to find value for money these days but if these are the guys we want then we’ve got to pay the going rate. Grealish wasn’t a 100m player either but in their system he looks like a beast now and no one remembers what he cost.

Got a lot more faith in the club’s recruitment now than I used to have. I reckon we’ll be going in hard this summer.

[mandela8]

Hard to find value for money these days but if these are the guys we want then we’ve got to pay the going rate. Grealish wasn’t a 100m player either but in their system he looks like a beast now and no one remembers what he cost.

Got a lot more faith in the club’s recruitment now than I used to have. I reckon we’ll be going in hard this summer.

Was 100m, mate. You literally just said it.

[Marc Overmars]

:lol:

Meant more that no one is questioning it anymore.

[Chippy]

Was 100m, mate. You literally just said it.

:lol::lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think the Transfers in the summer need to reflect that the club considers this season a bitter disappointment rather than one of success.

I’m glad Xhaka wants to leave because there seems to be no indication that Arteta would have got rid. Immediately replace him with Tielemans


Fuck bringing in Declan Rice, don’t rate him. Caicedo much the better player

Don’t need both of them, I’d bring back Charlie Patino for cover for Tielemans

Also being linked with a right sided centre half. I would sooner have a right fullback and rotate our defenders because I just think White is not a natural right back.

Depending on what Nelson does or doesn’t do, we may need an extra person on the wing…though I’d consider blooding Marquinhos


Then we need to bring in a striker. Like many people on here I absolutely agree that we need to bring in a tall striker that is more physical and a threat in the air.


So my priorities this summer would be midfield, Striker and right sided full back (plus left sided if we cannot persuade Tierney to stay)

[Marc Overmars]

If Toney didn’t have a lengthy ban hanging over him I would say break the bank to get him. He would be perfect for us.

[IBK]

If Toney didn’t have a lengthy ban hanging over him I would say break the bank to get him. He would be perfect for us.

He'd certainly be a good bet.

[Mac76]

I think the Transfers in the summer need to reflect that the club considers this season a bitter disappointment rather than one of success.

I’m glad Xhaka wants to leave because there seems to be no indication that Arteta would have got rid. Immediately replace him with Tielemans


Fuck bringing in Declan Rice, don’t rate him. Caicedo much the better player

Don’t need both of them, I’d bring back Charlie Patino for cover for Tielemans

Also being linked with a right sided centre half. I would sooner have a right fullback and rotate our defenders because I just think White is not a natural right back.

Depending on what Nelson does or doesn’t do, we may need an extra person on the wing…though I’d consider blooding Marquinhos


Then we need to bring in a striker. Like many people on here I absolutely agree that we need to bring in a tall striker that is more physical and a threat in the air.


So my priorities this summer would be midfield, Striker and right sided full back (plus left sided if we cannot persuade Tierney to stay)

I'm sorry to say i think both Nelson and Tierney have been mishandled to the point where we've lost them and it sounds like we're also going to mess up with Balogun too

I think Patino has said he's off also

so we're losing good players left right and centre at a time when we should be building up our squad further

I'd prefer Caicedo but instead i think we're going for the home-grown option - ofc it woud be just like us to get outbid for Rice by Man U or someone and then have lost the chance to sign Caicedo too

[HCZ_Reborn]

If Toney didn’t have a lengthy ban hanging over him I would say break the bank to get him. He would be perfect for us.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65626690


Speak of the Devil

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65626690


Speak of the Devil
He'd be like a new signing when he came back though :unsure:

[mandela8]

Absolutely fuckin incredible news about Xhaka. Getting actual real money for him anaw. Mental.

People talk about how this has been his best season and whilst id agree it has been his least bad, I'd also argue that it has exposed his weaknesses more than at any point. The fluidity of play not involving him compared to any action that goes through him is night and day. He's just so fuckin slow and cumbersome at everything, the number of opportunities that are missed because he can't transition quickly are staggering. I know most of you lack the insight to identify things like this but it's the single weakest point of the team.

Him leaving is as good as any signing for me.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Milner, Ox and Keita leaving along with Firminho in the summer

If Keita wasn’t so injury prone would say go for him, exactly the kind of midfielder we need

[Marc Overmars]

Cancelo and Rice top of the shopping list according a lot rags.

Not entirely sure if City would sell to us again but I thought Cancelo was an exceptional player until he fell out with Pep. Would be a really good addition to the back line.

[selassie]

Cancelo and Rice top of the shopping list according a lot rags.

Not entirely sure if City would sell to us again but I thought Cancelo was an exceptional player until he fell out with Pep. Would be a really good addition to the back line.

Cancelo can't defend, he is great on the ball, great at playing that inverted full back role as an additional midfielder, but like Zinchenko, Cancelo is a very suspect defender. He would come at a cost too, I'd prefer we avoid him TBH.

Ornstein says we are pushing hard for both Rice and Mount and also have an interest in Gundogan.

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticFC/status/1660541250955792385

[HCZ_Reborn]

Cancelo can't defend, he is great on the ball, great at playing that inverted full back role as an additional midfielder, but like Zinchenko, Cancelo is a very suspect defender. He would come at a cost too, I'd prefer we avoid him TBH.

Ornstein says we are pushing hard for both Rice and Mount and also have an interest in Gundogan.

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticFC/status/1660541250955792385


Rice and Mount?

Fucking hell

[selassie]

Rice and Mount?

Fucking hell

My thoughts too. I like Rice and think he would be a decent signing, but Mount??? He is a good player but I don't actually know what he excels in or what his favoured position is as he seems to play all over the place. I guess we are looking at him as a potential number 8 to replace the outbound Xhaka?

Also, our wage bill will literally be through the roof if Rice and Mount come, they are both likely to command 250k per week

[HCZ_Reborn]

My thoughts too. I like Rice and think he would be a decent signing, but Mount??? He is a good player but I don't actually know what he excels in or what his favoured position is as he seems to play all over the place. I guess we are looking at him as a potential number 8 to replace the outbound Xhaka?

I don’t think Rice or Mount are good players. Overrated English players

If we want an upgrade on Xhaka it exists in Tielemans and should be signing Caicedo not Rice

We do need a full back but only because Tierney is going to be sold and because neither White or Tomoyasu are good enough at right back (Tomoyasu should be sold)

[selassie]

I don’t think Rice or Mount are good players. Overrated English players

If we want an upgrade on Xhaka it exists in Tielemans and should be signing Caicedo not Rice

We do need a full back but only because Tierney is going to be sold and because neither White or Tomoyasu are good enough at right back (Tomoyasu should be sold)

I hear you on Caicedo over Rice, though I think one of the attractions about Rice is his height.

Tielemans??? Have you watched him recently? He is awful, rubbish. Slow, weak....and he is not even a guaranteed starter in that wretched Leicester side that are going down to the Championship.

[Marc Overmars]

Would 100% take Gundogan on a free. Not the profile we probably need at 32 and big wages but he’s an elite player and if we got a couple years out of him that would be ideal. I think we need at least 4-5 varied signings to ensure we have a respectable CL campaign and challenge again in the league.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Don’t think Gundogan is all that great either and at 33 we would be getting another Willian type player

We need to stop these sticking plaster signings and get in players who are part of our long term plans

[Marc Overmars]

Hate to break it to you but Rice and Mount are probably those long term plan players. :lol:

[KSE Comedy Club]

I don't have an issue with Rice, I think he is great player and would be an easy upgrade on Xhaka.
He would be a great signing for long term stability IMO.

Mount however, is a steaming pile of over rated shit.

[Mac76]

I don't have an issue with Rice, I think he is great player and would be an easy upgrade on Xhaka.
He would be a great signing for long term stability IMO.

Mount however, is a steaming pile of over rated shit.

it's not hard to be an upgrade on Xhaka, my only question is whether Rice is worth spending that kind of money on

it's worth remembering we maybe only got some or all of Jorghino, Trossard and Kiwior because the initial plan to make one big marquee signing in Mudryk failed

it's possible one or both of Jorg and Kiwior might have arrived anyway, but I'm not sure, i felt like not signing Mudryk cleared us to use the money elsewhere

If we go for Rice that's a lot of money on one player, about whom people have mixed opinions and given the number of decent players we're losing that's got to be a concern

As for Mount, not seen much of him this season, it's hard to judge any Chelsea player's form given the mess that club is in, but I'm not sure he feels like an Arsenal player to me

[mandela8]

Tell you what, I'd take Cabellos back at Arsenal. I thought he was a lovely player, man. Surrounded by absolute shite like Xhaka, Elneny and Gendouzi but stick him between a settled Partey and Odegaard and I reckon he'd be great.


Fuck me, I'm bored today.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Tell you what, I'd take Cabellos back at Arsenal. I thought he was a lovely player, man. Surrounded by absolute shite like Xhaka, Elneny and Gendouzi but stick him between a settled Partey and Odegaard and I reckon he'd be great.


Fuck me, I'm bored today.

Urghhhhh

[HCZ_Reborn]

Man United are after Mason Mount

I really hope he goes there, and I hope Rice goes to Bayern, Newcastle, United or any other club stupid enough to want him

[Niall_Quinn]

Couldn't really say which specific players we should sign. Wouldn't know a Rice from a Mount these days, and very happy about it. Even without seeing them I already know they are massively overrated, like 99.9% of "professional" football players. Then again, that might be enough as they will be up against other overrated "professionals." Except City have a decent striker and a decent midfielder. Proper players. So it sort of makes sense to go and find something that can compete with that if people are serious about winning titles. So, a 30+ goal striker, essential. And a midfielder that can control a game, rather than hang on to it. Do such players still exist? Bet they'll be expensive. But that's what it takes to win a title and that hyped Euro competition that's always such a disappointment in reality. Hundred mill on the striker. Hundred mill on the midfielder. Get maybe 50 mill back offloading some of the dross like White and Partey. Job done. If it's even possible.

[Mac76]

Couldn't really say which specific players we should sign. Wouldn't know a Rice from a Mount these days, and very happy about it. Even without seeing them I already know they are massively overrated, like 99.9% of "professional" football players. Then again, that might be enough as they will be up against other overrated "professionals." Except City have a decent striker and a decent midfielder. Proper players. So it sort of makes sense to go and find something that can compete with that if people are serious about winning titles. So, a 30+ goal striker, essential. And a midfielder that can control a game, rather than hang on to it. Do such players still exist? Bet they'll be expensive. But that's what it takes to win a title and that hyped Euro competition that's always such a disappointment in reality. Hundred mill on the striker. Hundred mill on the midfielder. Get maybe 50 mill back offloading some of the dross like White and Partey. Job done. If it's even possible.

Pretty much except for White, I know he's marmite with the fans but for me, I like marmite :)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Pretty much except for White, I know he's marmite with the fans but for me, I like marmite :)

I think he’s probably the best defender we have on the ball, but he clearly can’t deal with extreme pace on the wing to be an accomplished full back. He’s a centre back and a good one…and should have been played in that position if we were able to rotate more

[HCZ_Reborn]

So Man United look like they are going to sign Mason Mount, my sense of relief is palpable

All we need now is for Bayern Munich to outbid us for Rice and I might actually feel slightly positive about next season

[Marc Overmars]

Chelsea are apparently interested in Caicedo too.

Hope we act quick.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Chelsea are apparently interested in Caicedo too.

Hope we act quick.

They need to do a lot of selling before they can pull that off

[Mac76]

So Man United look like they are going to sign Mason Mount, my sense of relief is palpable

All we need now is for Bayern Munich to outbid us for Rice and I might actually feel slightly positive about next season

:lol:

totally agree re Mount, I wouldn't mind Rice but the money being talked about is a little ridiculous and would prefer Caicedo (both is fine though)

[HCZ_Reborn]

:lol:

totally agree re Mount, I wouldn't mind Rice but the money being talked about is a little ridiculous and would prefer Caicedo (both is fine though)

Man fuck Rice, if he was any good he wouldn’t have been at West Ham until now

[Marc Overmars]

Sounds like we might cash in on Balogun.

A shame but realistically how much would he play and his value has obviously increased a lot now, which means we can put that towards other priorities.

[Chippy]

Chelsea are apparently interested in Caicedo too.

Hope we act quick.

Chelsea are a bunch of fucking whores. They should not be allowed to sign anyone.

[Mac76]

Sounds like we might cash in on Balogun.

A shame but realistically how much would he play and his value has obviously increased a lot now, which means we can put that towards other priorities.

Really dumb decision which i suspect has to do with Balogun having some kind of ability to stand up for himself which of course Arteta doesn't like, he just likes yes men

We should keep Balogun and sell Eddie, it's obvious to everyone except Arteta

[GP]

We should sell them both, ideally.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Really dumb decision which i suspect has to do with Balogun having some kind of ability to stand up for himself which of course Arteta doesn't like, he just likes yes men

We should keep Balogun and sell Eddie, it's obvious to everyone except Arteta

I think we are after another striker, Balogun good player but too similar to Jesus, and under 6ft…plus I suspect we will have to sell in order to buy everyone we are after

[Marc Overmars]

Sell Balogun and buy a big, athletic striker.

Might as well keep Eddie as back up seeing as we only just gave him a new deal and wage hike.

[Mac76]

I think we are after another striker, Balogun good player but too similar to Jesus, and under 6ft…plus I suspect we will have to sell in order to buy everyone we are after

i guess so, seems a shame he seems a good talent and Eddie's just not worth having in any role tbh, he's not an impact player and not good enough to start games either

[HCZ_Reborn]

i guess so, seems a shame he seems a good talent and Eddie's just not worth having in any role tbh, he's not an impact player and not good enough to start games either

No but Balogun is not going to accept being a second tier player, Edward is useful for cup competitions

Plus hard to know how good he is, based on performances in Ligue 1. Been burnt before with Pepe and Gervinho

Im not against keeping him at the expense of Nketiah but neither am I that bothered about losing him, as long as we get a bare minimum of 40million

[Niall_Quinn]

Sell Balogun and buy a big, athletic striker.

Might as well keep Eddie as back up seeing as we only just gave him a new deal and wage hike.

Harry Kane guys. Sounds insane but he's the one. If he can rack up the goals down the road at that shitheap place then imagine what he could do here? Would need to break the bank of course. But if you want that title and the future players the title attracts, and if you have long since lost a team that could support a maestro like Henry, instead get a brick shithouse goal machine, he'll do you for two seasons.

Two reasons he might baulk, of course. Spuds to Arsenal - much hate. Also, he'd suddenly lose his England place.

Would rather have a non-Kane alternative that's like Kane. Can't think of anyone though.

[dostoy]

This is never ever ever everrrrrrrrrrr going to happen.

Levy would not sell to Arsenal and Kane would never want to come to Arsenal.

I think in August Levy will sell him to Man Utd because he surely cannot allow about 80 million or maybe more, to go down the drain next summer. The money will go to the new manager to spend, who will manage his last game for Celtic today.

Will Kane really turn down Bayern Munich or Real Madrid if Benzema leaves ?

Is he stupid enough to sign a new deal with Spuds ?

[Mac76]

Will Kane really turn down Bayern Munich or Real Madrid if Benzema leaves ?



He's too much of an in-bred homeboy to play abroad - they all speak funny over there and eat weird food





Is he stupid enough to sign a new deal with Spuds ?

Does that really need an answer?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Kane seems like a decent enough guy to be honest, but yeah he barely seems to have the sentience to dress himself

But then again could say the same of Saka who if you were judging by the way he speaks you’d say he had severe learning difficulties but apparently aced his GCSE’s which I guess only goes to show that you don’t need to be articulate to be academic.


Smith Rowe? I don’t want to be racist but why do so many young white men speak a kind of hybrid patois if they are from london or the south east these days….utterly baffles me

[dostoy]

Will Kane really turn down Bayern Munich or Real Madrid if Benzema leaves ?



Benzema WILL leave Madrid, it has been confirmed.

I'm surprised, I thought he would stay there.

They will want Kane now.

He would be a complete fool not to go there, but that is what he is.

[Chippy]

Kane seems like a decent enough guy to be honest, but yeah he barely seems to have the sentience to dress himself

But then again could say the same of Saka who if you were judging by the way he speaks you’d say he had severe learning difficulties but apparently aced his GCSE’s which I guess only goes to show that you don’t need to be articulate to be academic.


Smith Rowe? I don’t want to be racist but why do so many young white men speak a kind of hybrid patois if they are from london or the south east these days….utterly baffles me

The hood chat thing with ESR. I have on occasions heard youngsters talking like that around me and had to perform a double take because they were white :lol: WTF!

[Niall_Quinn]

Kane seems like a decent enough guy to be honest, but yeah he barely seems to have the sentience to dress himself

But then again could say the same of Saka who if you were judging by the way he speaks you’d say he had severe learning difficulties but apparently aced his GCSE’s which I guess only goes to show that you don’t need to be articulate to be academic.


Smith Rowe? I don’t want to be racist but why do so many young white men speak a kind of hybrid patois if they are from london or the south east these days….utterly baffles me

Yeah for sure. How is that not cultural (sic) appropriation btw? I'm genuinely interested. Why would a white person want to regress to a black culture (sic)? What's the payoff? What's the angle?

Was walking around a beautiful English town this weekend - the epitome of culture, and they were having a fair on the main common. Boom, boom, boom, that black bass shit polluting every sound frequency. It was obscene and horrific, as you might expect. How has this bastion of human progress allowed itself to be so polluted - whilst APPLAUDING and celebrating the virtue of cultural disintegration?

So many young people are into this. I wonder if they even know why? I wonder if they realise the cost of their complacency?

He's a decent player, when he plays. Decent by modern standards which means he's absolute shite. But if he's too busy trying to be black then get somebody who knows how to be as white as Shearer and as deadly as Ibrahimovic. As if it even matters. CAN YOU SCORE GOALS?

Adore that black bloke Henry. But he learned his entire culture from the French. Which gave him the opportunity to become the greatest striker ever to play the game. No France - No Henry.

[WMUG]

Smith Rowe? I don’t want to be racist but why do so many young white men speak a kind of hybrid patois if they are from london or the south east these days….utterly baffles me

Ooh! I get to geek out about my degree subject! :woohoo:

What you're talking about is a sociolect that linguists call Multicultural London English.

A sociolect is a dialect spoken by people of a particular social class. It's useful to distinguish that from your typical dialects because whether or not you speak that way is determined less by geography and more by social class. For example, a kid with middle class parents might speak very differently to a kid with working class parents, despite growing up in the same area.

The influences that cause somebody to speak with one accent versus another in this case are varied, but examples include what makes an individual fit in with their peers, how they've been taught to speak by authority figures and unconscious influence from speakers in their community.

A good example of a sociolect in early 20th century London would be Cockney. To massively oversimplify, people from more working class backgrounds would speak more like Ronnie Cray, and people from more middle and upper class backgrounds would speak more like the Queen. That sort of dynamic had been going on since at least the Norman conquest, and probably much longer.

What happened in the late 20th Century is that people started immigrating to the UK, especially London, from the Caribbean and bringing their dialects with them. Because these people tended to be less well off, they would mostly be sharing spaces with more working class people (again, to massively oversimplify).

These dialects therefore started to both influence and be influenced by the local working class dialects more so than the more middle and upper class ones. The result of this is that working class white kids who'd never been to the Caribbean in their lives nonetheless grew up alongside kids whose parents were from there, and so were naturally using elements speech from dialects from that region.

How many of those elements they incorporated into their own speech would be down to the individual, but enough elements transferred across that the default working class sociolect in certain areas of London became noticeably different enough to previous generations that it's now been given its own name and wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multicultural_London_English

I love this stuff, me.

:geek:

[Mac76]

,,,and ultimately there's no problem with it, except that it seems to cause discomfort amongst the Alf Garnetts of this world

For this reason alone, I'm beginning to change my mind about ESR and think we should keep him :)

[Chippy]

,,,and ultimately there's no problem with it, except that it seems to cause discomfort amongst the Alf Garnetts of this world

For this reason alone, I'm beginning to change my mind about ESR and think we should keep him :)

As a true Cockney from Shoreditch in 1973 (before it came gentrified). I think it is fucking embarrassing. You are obviously a younger person that thinks anyone with the balls to question it is related to Alf Garnett.

[Marc Overmars]

Mac Allister on his way to Liverpool. Buyout clause of around 50m apparently.

Decent business there.

[HCZ_Reborn]

As a true Cockney from Shoreditch in 1973 (before it came gentrified). I think it is fucking embarrassing. You are obviously a younger person that thinks anyone with the balls to question it is related to Alf Garnett.

No, hang on. I think the young get shat upon quite enough. I think holding them responsible for this pearl clutching and righteousness is a tad too simplistic. Actually it’s Gen Z that have had this nonsense foist upon them, if you speak to anyone under the age of thirty they think it’s nonsense as well.

And I also say balls to this class distinction, it’s cultural…you’ll get a middle class white lad just as likely to talk like a Yardie just as much as a poor kid from Bermondsey.

It’s about the music and other influences, and the fact that parents are not allowed to hit their kids anymore.

Frankly if I was a West Indian father and my boy spoke like that I’d be inclined to take a belt to him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Mac Allister on his way to Liverpool. Buyout clause of around 50m apparently.

Decent business there.

Mac Allister is an Argentine Aaron Ramsey. Only because of the sheer absurdity of transfer fees this day does 50 million sound anywhere near a good deal

[HCZ_Reborn]

,,,and ultimately there's no problem with it, except that it seems to cause discomfort amongst the Alf Garnetts of this world

For this reason alone, I'm beginning to change my mind about ESR and think we should keep him :)


You want to keep him based on the fact that he took lessons in diction from Dizzee Rascal?

For me, black, white or Asian or whatever part of the country, kids should be forced to speak in RP

I make fun of my nephew for his scouse accent

[WMUG]

I think the development of the English language was a mistake, honestly. We should all be speaking Proto-Germanic as the Flying Spaghetti Monster (PBUHNA) intended.

[Mac76]

I make fun of my nephew for his scouse accent

Well I'm with you on that at least :good:

[Letters]

I think the development of the English language was a mistake, honestly. We should all be speaking Proto-Germanic as the Flying Spaghetti Monster (PBUHNA) intended.

While you're being boring, what do you make of people (I'm looking at you Nigel Kennedy) who shifted accent from quite posh to mockney?
(I have an idiot uncle who went the other way, our family accent is fairly neutral, his is plummy in a way which doesn't come from him upbringing).

[WMUG]

While you're being boring, what do you make of people (I'm looking at you Nigel Kennedy) who shifted accent from quite posh to mockney?
(I have an idiot uncle who went the other way, our family accent is fairly neutral, his is plummy in a way which doesn't come from him upbringing).

People's accents sometimes drift with time, I know that much. I haven't studied accent change on an individual level so I don't know the exact causes at play.

Neither does anybody here, though as you'll see above that doesn't stop anybody from making up explanations that suit their own worldview and assuming they're correct.

[WMUG]

And I also say balls to this class distinction, it’s cultural…you’ll get a middle class white lad just as likely to talk like a Yardie just as much as a poor kid from Bermondsey..

I did say I was oversimplifying ;)

The process I described applies to the birth of MLE.

It's since spread to other social classes via a similar dynamic: middle class kids spend time with working class kids and so pick up aspects of their speech.

Honestly, making moralistic judgements about accent/language change is a bit like making judgements about particle physics or biological evolution. They're all natural phenomena that the individuals involved have essentially no control over. ESR speaks MLE for broadly the same reason he's 6 feet tall. We don't make moralistic judgements about people's height (well some people do, but they're generally regarded as morons), so why do it about their accents?

[Letters]

We don't make moralistic judgements about people's height (well some people do, but they're generally regarded as morons)
:gp:

:angry:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I did say I was oversimplifying ;)

The process I described applies to the birth of MLE.

It's since spread to other social classes via a similar dynamic: middle class kids spend time with working class kids and so pick up aspects of their speech.

Honestly, making moralistic judgements about accent/language change is a bit like making judgements about particle physics or biological evolution. They're all natural phenomena that the individuals involved have essentially no control over. ESR speaks MLE for broadly the same reason he's 6 feet tall. We don't make moralistic judgements about people's height (well some people do, but they're generally regarded as morons), so why do it about their accents?

But this isn’t some generational change, this is like me picking up a Mancunian affectation because Oasis were big when I was a teenager our kid

[WMUG]

But this isn’t some generational change, this is like me picking up a Mancunian affectation because Oasis were big when I was a teenager our kid

I don't think that's what ESR's doing, is it? I don't have any clips of him speaking at age 10 to hand, but I'd be surprised if he was full-on RP at that age.

People do speak differently in different situations, which is called code-switching. Again, I've not studied that very much so I don't know the ins and outs of it, but it's something we all do unconsciously from time to time. As far as I'm aware, a common place where code-switching is observed is in the classroom vs in the playground, i.e. when speaking to authority vs to peers.

What we switch between, and how much that happens, is again something that depends on the individual.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't think that's what ESR's doing, is it? I don't have any clips of him speaking at age 10 to hand, but I'd be surprised if he was full-on RP at that age.

People do speak differently in different situations, which is called code-switching. Again, I've not studied that very much so I don't know the ins and outs of it, but it's something we all do unconsciously from time to time. As far as I'm aware, a common place where code-switching is observed is in the classroom vs in the playground, i.e. when speaking to authority vs to peers.

What we switch between, and how much that happens, is again something that depends on the individual.

Doubt he was calling people Bruv or saying you get me? at ten

[WMUG]

Doubt he was calling people Bruv or saying you get me? at ten

Perhaps not, but do you speak the same way you did when you were ten?

[Letters]

Doubt he was calling people Bruv or saying you get me? at ten

You understand that the way we speak is influenced by our peers and friends, right?
I say "Really?!" when I'm exasperated by something because of a colleague at work who used to. And now my son does.
:shrug:

I'm currently working with a lady who grew up in Australia, came over here at around 10 with an Aussie accent which she says was "bullied out of her". She now speaks quite posh, like.
What is your anyone's actual problem with any of this?

[selassie]

As a true Cockney from Shoreditch in 1973 (before it came gentrified). I think it is fucking embarrassing. You are obviously a younger person that thinks anyone with the balls to question it is related to Alf Garnett.

The Yute of today or the Mandem as the Yute like to call themselves all kind of speak this way, especially if raised in Urban London / Greater London / Any town near to London with a big ethnic minority.

When I was growing up as a kid in Brixton (I am black and from Caribbean parents), some of the white kids use to speak some of the yardie / patois slang that derived from Yard Jamaica but not all of them, you were either a urban kid or a cockney back then. These days it seems most kids adopt the street slang, patois mixed with even some Arab Muslim type words / sayings.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Perhaps not, but do you speak the same way you did when you were ten?

An increased vocabulary aside mainly yes

My flat dull Essex intonation is an irritation on the ears even to me

[HCZ_Reborn]

You understand that the way we speak is influenced by our peers and friends, right?
I say "Really?!" when I'm exasperated by something because of a colleague at work who used to. And now my son does.
:shrug:

I'm currently working with a lady who grew up in Australia, came over here at around 10 with an Aussie accent which she says was "bullied out of her". She now speaks quite posh, like.
What is your anyone's actual problem with any of this?


I just believe preciseness of speech reflects clarity of thought, and adopting this semi pidgin West Indian dialect is hugely bizarre.

And I’m saying I don’t think it’s a gradual evolution thing, I think it comes from silly kids listening to a certain type of music and wanting to be Gangsta boys

Australian accent is appalling, I’m glad it was corrected

[HCZ_Reborn]

:gp:

:angry:

That’s because you can’t change your height without painful and damaging physical correction

We aren’t talking about left handed people here, we are talking about a fad adaptation

[WMUG]

That’s because you can’t change your height without painful and damaging physical correction

We aren’t talking about left handed people here, we are talking about a fad adaptation

Left handedness is a much better analogy (and one that also applies to Letters, IIRC? :d) and yes, that's exactly what we're talking about.

Do some people imitate MLE because it makes them sound cooler? Sure, probably. Same way I sometimes use my left hand to drink. Doesn't make Letters any less genuine in his left-handedness, and it doesn't make any native speaker of MLE any less authentic.

Also why do you think MLE speakers are any less precise in what they say than RP? Seems a strange assumption to make.

[LDG]

Speak how you want to. When you want to. But have the intelligence to know when to open your mouth, and when to shut the fuck up.

Goes for typing too btw.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Left handedness is a much better analogy (and one that also applies to Letters, IIRC? :d) and yes, that's exactly what we're talking about.

Do some people imitate MLE because it makes them sound cooler? Sure, probably. Same way I sometimes use my left hand to drink. Doesn't make Letters any less genuine in his left-handedness, and it doesn't make any native speaker of MLE any less authentic.

Also why do you think MLE speakers are any less precise in what they say than RP? Seems a strange assumption to make.

That’s the same kind of argument of saying being born with a cock doesn’t make you any less genuine a woman. People are left handed due to development in early years, it’s rarely a conscious choice.

Either imprecise or incomprehensible take your pick

[HCZ_Reborn]

Speak how you want to. When you want to. But have the intelligence to know when to open your mouth, and when to shut the fuck up.

Goes for typing too btw.

I hope that in time, you develop such a wisdom

[LDG]

I hope that in time, you develop such a wisdom

Cock off penis breath

[WMUG]

That’s the same kind of argument of saying being born with a cock doesn’t make you any less genuine a woman. People are left handed due to development in early years, it’s rarely a conscious choice.



It's in fact the exact opposite. If we take your example, I'm making the argument that just because some people born with a penis claim to be women (people imitating MLE), that doesn't make a cis woman (native MLE speaker, regardless of race) any less of a woman.

Just because I might use a word from MLE that I wouldn't normally use just because it sounds cool, doesn't mean ESR isn't speaking authentically.

And the left-handedness example fits quite well here too (thanks for that, btw! So much better than height). My friend who grew up in China was born left-handed, but had it beaten out of him. He now uses his right hand to write. That doesn't mean my being right handed is any less natural than it is.


Either imprecise or incomprehensible take your pick

It's only incomprehensible if you don't understand it. The people who speak it natively understand it perfectly well. Same as Geordie, Scouse, American English, Spanish or Igbo. How much you understand any way of speaking depends on your exposure to it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's in fact the exact opposite. If we take your example, I'm making the argument that just because some people born with a penis claim to be women (people imitating MLE), that doesn't make a cis woman (native MLE speaker, regardless of race) any less of a woman.

Just because I might use a word from MLE that I wouldn't normally use just because it sounds cool, doesn't mean ESR isn't speaking authentically.

And the left-handedness example fits quite well here too (thanks for that, btw! So much better than height). My friend who grew up in China was born left-handed, but had it beaten out of him. He now uses his right hand to write. That doesn't mean my being right handed is any less natural than it is.



It's only incomprehensible if you don't understand it. The people who speak it natively understand it perfectly well. Same as Geordie, Scouse, American English, Spanish or Igbo. How much you understand any way of speaking depends on your exposure to it.

Slang of any kind is an unsophisticated way of communicating

I know that our modern society teaches us that we need to embrace all differences, but some things are naturally inferior.

Apart from anything else the silly people who speak in gushing terms about diversity, are the people unwittingly promoting cultures that are rigidly socially conservative, hyper masculine, racist, homophobic and misogynistic.

Which is supposed to be the kind of things they are against….which speaks to the quixotic nature of their beliefs

It’s not to say people who talk in dialects are less intelligent, but they are choosing to communicate in a less sophisticated way…which speaks volumes to the contradictory creatures human beings are I suppose

[HCZ_Reborn]

Cock off penis breath

Oh dear, it really shouldn’t be that easy to bait you. Something you need to work on perhaps

[WMUG]

Slang of any kind is an unsophisticated way of communicating

I know that our modern society teaches us that we need to embrace all differences, but some things are naturally inferior.

Apart from anything else the silly people who speak in gushing terms about diversity, are the people unwittingly promoting cultures that are rigidly socially conservative, hyper masculine, racist, homophobic and misogynistic.

Which is supposed to be the kind of things they are against….which speaks to the quixotic nature of their beliefs

It’s not to say people who talk in dialects are less intelligent, but they are choosing to communicate in a less sophisticated way…which speaks volumes to the contradictory creatures human beings are I suppose

Everybody speaks in a dialect.

Speaking without a dialect is like typing without a font. The only difference is different dialects have different amounts of prestige. In the UK, the prestige dialect is RP. It's perceived as posher, more refined, more sophisticated and its speakers are thought to be more intelligent etc.

This isn't because of anything inherent to the dialect itself, it's because of history. That way of speaking is how the people with the most power spoke back in the day (again, massively oversimplifying). If those people had been based in northeastern England, then Geordie would've become the prestige dialect.

There's no scientific basis for calling any way of speaking superior or inferior to any other, any more than there's a basis for calling one species of animal superior or inferior. Don't believe me, have a look at the situation in Switzerland, more specifically the German speaking part.

There, everybody's native language is their local dialect. That's what they speak to their parents, friends, bank tellers, shopkeepers, barbers etc. It's what they speak in professional environments, job interviews, sales pitches, business meetings.

But in school, they're taught to speak Standard German. That's what they write down, it's what their newspapers, websites and governmental communications are written in. This means all German-speaking Swiss people essentially grow up bilingual in their local dialect and Standard German

Does this mean Standard German is inherently superior? Say that to a Swiss person and you'll be swallowing your own teeth :lol:

No, they just use it to communicate with Germans and Austrians, to whom their dialects are incomprehensible. But they're not incomprehensible inside Switzerland, their society gets on just fine by using them internally.

[Mac76]

The only thing that annoys me is when perfectly good words which have one meaning get used in a different way because it's trendy - words like 'random' 'sick' etc - that gets on my nerves

[GP]

It's giving boomer

[WMUG]

The only thing that annoys me is when perfectly good words which have one meaning get used in a different way because it's trendy - words like 'random' 'sick' etc - that gets on my nerves

Wait til you hear about the word 'nice'.

[WMUG]

It's giving boomer

Sehr gut :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Everybody speaks in a dialect.

Speaking without a dialect is like typing without a font. The only difference is different dialects have different amounts of prestige. In the UK, the prestige dialect is RP. It's perceived as posher, more refined, more sophisticated and its speakers are thought to be more intelligent etc.

This isn't because of anything inherent to the dialect itself, it's because of history. That way of speaking is how the people with the most power spoke back in the day (again, massively oversimplifying). If those people had been based in northeastern England, then Geordie would've become the prestige dialect.

There's no scientific basis for calling any way of speaking superior or inferior to any other, any more than there's a basis for calling one species of animal superior or inferior. Don't believe me, have a look at the situation in Switzerland, more specifically the German speaking part.

There, everybody's native language is their local dialect. That's what they speak to their parents, friends, bank tellers, shopkeepers, barbers etc. It's what they speak in professional environments, job interviews, sales pitches, business meetings.

But in school, they're taught to speak Standard German. That's what they write down, it's what their newspapers, websites and governmental communications are written in. This means all German-speaking Swiss people essentially grow up bilingual in their local dialect and Standard German

Does this mean Standard German is inherently superior? Say that to a Swiss person and you'll be swallowing your own teeth :lol:

No, they just use it to communicate with Germans and Austrians, to whom their dialects are incomprehensible. But they're not incomprehensible inside Switzerland, their society gets on just fine by using them internally.


Received Pronunciation is the standard because it doesn’t yield to casual use of language or vowel mergers.

Plus to take your point even in the most remote tribes in the world there is a high and a low way of speaking. The type of Mongrel dialect being employed that we have been speaking about has no high way of speaking, it is often crude and vulgar.

[LDG]

Oh dear, it really shouldn’t be that easy to bait you. Something you need to work on perhaps

:haha:

17,000 posts on this shithouse, thousands more on the old site, and you reckon you baited? Fuck off pal :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

:haha:

17,000 posts on this shithouse, thousands more on the old site, and you reckon you baited? Fuck off pal :lol:

I don’t reckon anything. I’m simply observing what is fact.

You interceded on a grown up conversation to make a silly remark and tried to dress it up as profound, you didn’t like when it was turned round on you.

So you retreated back to the kiddy’s table

[WMUG]

Received Pronunciation is the standard because it doesn’t yield to casual use of language or vowel mergers

I genuinely don't know what that sentence means.




Plus to take your point even in the most remote tribes in the world there is a high and a low way of speaking. The type of Mongrel dialect being employed that we have been speaking about has no high way of speaking, it is often crude and vulgar.

You don't think it's possible to be crude and vulgar in RP, or to be respectful/poetic/sophisticated in MLE? How are you defining high and low, more to the point?

[HCZ_Reborn]

I genuinely don't know what that sentence means.



You don't think it's possible to be crude and vulgar in RP, or to be respectful/poetic/sophisticated in MLE? How are you defining high and low, more to the point?


Unadorned low speaking is a way of communicating simple messages and simple thoughts and feelings, there’s little that’s poetic about it

It curtails the ability to express depth of thought, analysis and understanding


And yes dialects that are base lack any real depth


It may be part of the natural human tendency towards hierarchy but for example there is a mode of speaking in Japan used only by the Emperor which is extremely formal this would be an example of a high way of speaking

[Chippy]

Received Pronunciation is the standard because it doesn’t yield to casual use of language or vowel mergers.

Plus to take your point even in the most remote tribes in the world there is a high and a low way of speaking. The type of Mongrel dialect being employed that we have been speaking about has no high way of speaking, it is often crude and vulgar.

Has anyone got anything to say about football :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Has anyone got anything to say about football :lol:

Season is over chief, it doesn’t begin again until August

[Chippy]

Doubt he was calling people Bruv or saying you get me? at ten
:haha:

[Chippy]

Season is over chief, it doesn’t begin again until August

Oakerleydokerley!
So let's carry on debating why ESR talks like a knob :tiphat:

[Letters]

Oakerleydokerley!
So let's carry on debating why ESR talks like a knob :tiphat:

Any why any of us care, other than we’re all grumpy old bastards.

[Chippy]

Any why any of us care, other than we’re all grumpy old bastards.

We are indeed, grumpy old bastard's :oldboy:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Any why any of us care, other than we’re all grumpy old bastards.

I’ve been like this all my life but it’s also just my prerogative at my age


https://youtu.be/5DlTexEXxLQ

[Mac76]

Season is over chief, it doesn’t begin again until August

well if you think about the title of this thread it's about, errr, summer transfers...

[Mac76]

Wait til you hear about the word 'nice'.

:(

[Letters]

We are indeed, grumpy old bastard's :oldboy:
If you put that apostrophe in to annoy me them mission accomplished <_<

[Mac76]

If you put that apostrophe in to annoy me them mission accomplished <_<

if you put that typo in to annoy me, then mission also accomplished :lol:

[Letters]

if you put that typo in to annoy me, then mission also accomplished :lol:

:lol: :doh:

I did not...

:getcoat:

[HCZ_Reborn]

well if you think about the title of this thread it's about, errr, summer transfers...

Transfer window doesn’t open till midway through the month, and given the players we have been linked with I can’t really expect to derive much but disappointment, anger and frustration. So I could go on a paragraph rant about wasting money on Rice, Gundogan etc or could just save myself the bother

[Chippy]

If you put that apostrophe in to annoy me them mission accomplished <_<

Fuck me, you are miserable :d

[Mac76]

Transfer window doesn’t open till midway through the month, and given the players we have been linked with I can’t really expect to derive much but disappointment, anger and frustration. So I could go on a paragraph rant about wasting money on Rice, Gundogan etc or could just save myself the bother

yes do save yourself the bother

tbh after the FAC final i'm not sure Gundogan wouldn't have his uses if we got him free/cheap (swap for Lokonga perhaps :lol:), although i don't want us us to become Man City Old Boys

[HCZ_Reborn]

yes do save yourself the bother

tbh after the FAC final i'm not sure Gundogan wouldn't have his uses if we got him free/cheap (swap for Lokonga perhaps :lol:), although i don't want us us to become Man City Old Boys

Never rated him, and especially not now at 32….feels like Willian allover again

Plus think what the fucker earns at City, let Barcelona pay his silly wages

[Marc Overmars]

I’d rather we didn’t go down the route of signing old and expensive players with their best years in the can, but Gundogan is someone I’d happily take because he’s such a classy player who could still do a lot for us. I also don’t think we could sensibly claim that the captain of a treble winning team isn’t good enough for us. :lol:

Caicedo and Gundogan would be great business as far as central midfield is concerned.

[Mac76]

it looks like Barca are closing in on him

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/other/barcelona-trump-arsenal-and-manchester-city-with-improved-offer-for-ilkay-gundogan/ar-AA1cbtlZ

[WMUG]

I’ve been like this all my life but it’s also just my prerogative at my age


https://youtu.be/5DlTexEXxLQ

The great thing about reading up on linguistics is that it doesn't at all preclude you getting grumpy, it just means you've got scientific backing for your grumpiness at people uncritically repeating their ignorance-based opinions on language :d

[HCZ_Reborn]

The great thing about reading up on linguistics is that it doesn't at all preclude you getting grumpy, it just means you've got scientific backing for your grumpiness at people uncritically repeating their ignorance-based opinions on language :d

Your arrogance would be more befitting someone who had proved anything I’d said as incorrect rather than just asserted it

You certainly haven’t stated anything that would prove that the way ESR and other lads like him speak is part of some linguistic drift.

[WMUG]

Your arrogance would be more befitting someone who had proved anything I’d said as incorrect rather than just asserted it

You certainly haven’t stated anything that would prove that the way ESR and other lads like him speak is part of some linguistic drift.

Not got the time to dive into it right now, but if you manage to find a way around the paywall, then this paper is a good read* on the emergence of MLE in particular: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-9841.2011.00478.x

*(who am I kidding, it's dry as fuck :lol: )

[LDG]

I don’t reckon anything. I’m simply observing what is fact.

You interceded on a grown up conversation to make a silly remark and tried to dress it up as profound, you didn’t like when it was turned round on you.

So you retreated back to the kiddy’s table

:lol:

The grown up conversation you think you are having is neither grown up, or insightful. The fact me pointing that out twice in different ways didn’t register speaks volumes.

You are possibly the worst poster to have inhabited this desolate place, where your views will echo in the darkness for eternity, because I very much doubt you would have the bollocks to shout any of the crap you post in any other public place.

I assume you say the same shit to your mates and they applaud your intellect. Or you could just be defecating on the internet to make yourself feel important.

The reason some of us still post here is to have a laugh at how stupid and ignorant people are. Congats, you win top prize. Now jog along will you.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You are possibly the worst poster to have inhabited this desolate place

I’m not going to lie, that remark really cut me deep

Only possibly?

[HCZ_Reborn]

What this place is good for is for middle aged guys (like myself and presumably like yourself) to screw around without having to bother with the narcissists who inhabit the more contemporary aspects of the internet.

It’s not the Oxford Union debate, if I want to spew hyperbolic vitriol about Arteta what better place than here.

For someone who wants to come here for a laugh (bit of a dry well) you do seem to take yourself very seriously.

If I’m in the mood for constructive debate I might engage in it, if I’m just here to amuse myself (and please believe me the fact that you find me risible will do nothing to temper that) then I’ll do so

As for me being forgotten about? Who cares?. Last time I was here before I hurriedly departed for four years…I was summed up as a cunt (the best epitaph anyone could hope for on a football forum)

[LDG]

What this place is good for is for middle aged guys (like myself and presumably like yourself) to screw around without having to bother with the narcissists who inhabit the more contemporary aspects of the internet.

It’s not the Oxford Union debate, if I want to spew hyperbolic vitriol about Arteta what better place than here.

For someone who wants to come here for a laugh (bit of a dry well) you do seem to take yourself very seriously.

If I’m in the mood for constructive debate I might engage in it, if I’m just here to amuse myself (and please believe me the fact that you find me risible will do nothing to temper that) then I’ll do so

As for me being forgotten about? Who cares?. Last time I was here before I hurriedly departed for four years…I was summed up as a cunt (the best epitaph anyone could hope for on a football forum)

Ah, a wind up merchant. Who would have thought.

Ever think about another 4 year break?

[Marc Overmars]

Bellingham to join Real Madrid for potentially 115m.

[Mac76]

I only just heard we're definitely not selling ESR - I guess whoever supplies the club with pies will be happy

[LDG]

Rice’s price tag has now notched up

[Niall_Quinn]

Rice’s price tag has now notched up

Fuck, it was a pound a bag not so long ago.

[LDG]

Fuck, it was a pound a bag not so long ago.

:haha:

[Marc Overmars]

The West Ham chairman has confirmed they’ll let Rice go. Bit weird to weaken their bargaining position by putting that on record but I’m sure he’ll still cost £100m or something like that.

Sign him up Mikel.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Argentine Aaron Ramsey has signed for Liverpool

[dostoy]

Argentine Aaron Ramsey has signed for Liverpool

Yeah very cheaply.

How is he only worth about 35 million and his Brighton mate is worth more than double ?

How on earth is Rice priced at 120 million or more ?

Forget Rice, he is overrated and far too expensive.

[Chippy]

Yeah very cheaply.

How is he only worth about 35 million and his Brighton mate is worth more than double ?

How on earth is Rice priced at 120 million or more ?

Forget Rice, he is overrated and far too expensive.

Rice will sign for £90m. That will include add ons etc. £120m is paper talk.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Rice will sign for £90m. That will include add ons etc. £120m is paper talk.

Agreed

[KSE Comedy Club]

No Arsenal I know, but has anyone seen the news that ticket prices for Inter Miami games has increased by 1000% since Messi has announce he is joining them?

Secondary market I know, but, fucking disgusting tbh.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/06/07/the-messi-effect-inter-miami-ticket-prices-jump-1000-after-messi-reportedly-joins-mls/

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah very cheaply.

How is he only worth about 35 million and his Brighton mate is worth more than double ?

How on earth is Rice priced at 120 million or more ?

Forget Rice, he is overrated and far too expensive.


I’d honestly say Caicedo is definitely worth twice as much as MacAllister, but I don’t rate MacAllister…the majority of his goals are penalties. And watching Argentina at the World Cup, MacAllister waned in the game and it gave the opposition time and space to get back into the game…they won both games on penalties but arguably should have won normal time.
He’s another one that can’t deal with pressing or physicality, hasn’t got great first touch either.

Caicedo is for me a must because of the way he can play through the high press, actually thrives on it. Exceptional player. Rice could fill the Xhaka no8 role (in that he’d roll his sleeves up more, is quicker and better on the ball) but think don’t want to spend money on both…and Caicedo is the player we absolutely must sign between the two of them (but Arteta as he always goes, gets his priorities wrong)

[Marc Overmars]

Problem is that Chelsea want Caicedo too and that will probably mean us getting gazumped if it came to it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Problem is that Chelsea want Caicedo too and that will probably mean us getting gazumped if it came to it.


I don’t think Chelsea are in a position to buy until they sell.

[selassie]

The West Ham chairman has confirmed they’ll let Rice go. Bit weird to weaken their bargaining position by putting that on record but I’m sure he’ll still cost £100m or something like that.

Sign him up Mikel.

I think Rice is pretty much done or at least agreed in "private and principle between Rice, West Ham and Arsenal". Rice has made it pretty clear that he wants to stay in London and there are numerous reports of his admiration for Arteta, our playing style and new found status / improvement.

I like Rice as a player, I think he is overpriced but it is what it is, he will most definitely improve our team and we should have him for a good few years too.

[selassie]

I’d honestly say Caicedo is definitely worth twice as much as MacAllister, but I don’t rate MacAllister…the majority of his goals are penalties. And watching Argentina at the World Cup, MacAllister waned in the game and it gave the opposition time and space to get back into the game…they won both games on penalties but arguably should have won normal time.
He’s another one that can’t deal with pressing or physicality, hasn’t got great first touch either.

Caicedo is for me a must because of the way he can play through the high press, actually thrives on it. Exceptional player. Rice could fill the Xhaka no8 role (in that he’d roll his sleeves up more, is quicker and better on the ball) but think don’t want to spend money on both…and Caicedo is the player we absolutely must sign between the two of them (but Arteta as he always goes, gets his priorities wrong)

I agree, I think Caicedo is the next world class midfielder, he's like a younger version of Kante, but in Caicedo he seems to have a bit more to his game, he is almost the complete Midfielder.

We absolutely need to do all we can to sign him, I'd happily not sign Rice and sign Caicedo if it was a choice, however i genuinely think we want both players. You can't fault our ambition.

[selassie]

I don’t think Chelsea are in a position to buy until they sell.

Aye, we are in a strong position with Caicedo if we do actually have the budget to buy both him and Rice. Reports everywhere are saying we are Caicedo's first choice, he recently did that interview where he was basically saying he was disappointed that he didn't move to us in January and that he wanted us to win the league, he also said he likes that we have a great group of young players and loves our style of play.

We have become a desirable destination again, we absolutely need to take advantage of that this window, because we have the potential to build a truly frightening squad stacked full of top class young players.

[Marc Overmars]

I think Rice is pretty much done or at least agreed in "private and principle between Rice, West Ham and Arsenal". Rice has made it pretty clear that he wants to stay in London and there are numerous reports of his admiration for Arteta, our playing style and new found status / improvement.

I like Rice as a player, I think he is overpriced but it is what it is, he will most definitely improve our team and we should have him for a good few years too.

Definitely overpriced but I think he would be a decent addition to the midfield. Seems like a very driven and likeable individual too, could easily see him as our captain.

[fakeyank]

Sell Balogun and buy a big, athletic striker.

Might as well keep Eddie as back up seeing as we only just gave him a new deal and wage hike.

In terms of actual good strikers, we have none. Jesus can huff and puff all day but he cant finish for shit. Balogun actually looks like a very promising striker and his finishing % is better than Jesus and Nketiah combined. I would rather we keep him, buy another striker, sell Nketiah and keep Jesus on the wings (or as an impact sub).

If Balogun was not an Arsenal player and we were pursuing a young player who went toe to toe with Mbappe in terms of scoring playing for a shit team in Ligue 1, we'd be very excited. At the bare minimum, Balogun deserves a solid pre-season with us and given a run in the team if he impresses during the pre-season. Will it happen? I dont think so.. something tells me Arteta has a massive hard on for Eddie.

[Letters]

The weird thing is that while we didn’t have a Haaland or, dare I say it, a Kane, we actually scored more goals last year than The Invincibles last season. City didn’t actually score that many more than us. Defence was the bigger issue, particularly when Saliba got injured

[Mac76]

In terms of actual good strikers, we have none. Jesus can huff and puff all day but he cant finish for shit. Balogun actually looks like a very promising striker and his finishing % is better than Jesus and Nketiah combined. I would rather we keep him, buy another striker, sell Nketiah and keep Jesus on the wings (or as an impact sub).

If Balogun was not an Arsenal player and we were pursuing a young player who went toe to toe with Mbappe in terms of scoring playing for a shit team in Ligue 1, we'd be very excited. At the bare minimum, Balogun deserves a solid pre-season with us and given a run in the team if he impresses during the pre-season. Will it happen? I dont think so.. something tells me Arteta has a massive hard on for Eddie.

This

[Marc Overmars]

In terms of actual good strikers, we have none. Jesus can huff and puff all day but he cant finish for shit. Balogun actually looks like a very promising striker and his finishing % is better than Jesus and Nketiah combined. I would rather we keep him, buy another striker, sell Nketiah and keep Jesus on the wings (or as an impact sub).

If Balogun was not an Arsenal player and we were pursuing a young player who went toe to toe with Mbappe in terms of scoring playing for a shit team in Ligue 1, we'd be very excited. At the bare minimum, Balogun deserves a solid pre-season with us and given a run in the team if he impresses during the pre-season. Will it happen? I dont think so.. something tells me Arteta has a massive hard on for Eddie.

I don’t think it’s a case of not wanting Balogun to stay, it’s probably more about him preferring to leave to be the main man somewhere now, I can’t see him warming the bench after the season he’s had. Realistically he isn’t going to get more than a few run outs in the cups if he stayed with us. We’ve got a good spread of goals across the front line so I’m not sure what we’d be missing because he’s a similar type of striker to Eddie. I think we need to be looking at a more physical striker to give us the option of mixing it up.

The loan worked a treat for all parties. We can get good money for Balogun and put it towards other areas of the squad. Stick a sell-on fee on him too incase he really explodes. Unfortunately we don’t have an infinite money cheat code, so we need to be a little clever with how we operate and moving on surplus players for good money is part of it.

[selassie]

The weird thing is that while we didn’t have a Haaland or, dare I say it, a Kane, we actually scored more goals last year than The Invincibles last season. City didn’t actually score that many more than us. Defence was the bigger issue, particularly when Saliba got injured

Yep, whilst you can always improve all areas of the team / squad, offensively we are actually very strong even without a "Haaland" or "Kane" type upfront like you say. Our model upfront is similar to Liverpool's where there is an emphasis on all 3 of the forwards to chip in with goals, even Odegaard had a great goalscoring season last season and I think that will continue merely based on how we play.

[HCZ_Reborn]

My opinion is that we are deficient in two areas

Central midfield and full back

I don’t expect the left full back issue to be addressed but hopeful that Arteta recognises that White isn’t the long term option at right back. I do like White as a player I genuinely do, but I think he’s a centre back

[HCZ_Reborn]

In terms of actual good strikers, we have none. Jesus can huff and puff all day but he cant finish for shit. Balogun actually looks like a very promising striker and his finishing % is better than Jesus and Nketiah combined. I would rather we keep him, buy another striker, sell Nketiah and keep Jesus on the wings (or as an impact sub).

If Balogun was not an Arsenal player and we were pursuing a young player who went toe to toe with Mbappe in terms of scoring playing for a shit team in Ligue 1, we'd be very excited. At the bare minimum, Balogun deserves a solid pre-season with us and given a run in the team if he impresses during the pre-season. Will it happen? I dont think so.. something tells me Arteta has a massive hard on for Eddie.


Hmm, on one hand I do agree 100% with you that we do not have a real clinical finisher in the team. How much of an issue that is though I’m really not sure….there were four games last season in the league where we failed to score…and scored 88 goals.

With Balogun it’s hard to know, because he has been playing in an inferior league…and we had our fingers burnt by Nicolas Pepe based on his performances/goal scoring in Ligue 1 (and even then half the goals were penalties)

It would of course be my preference to keep him and sell Nketiah, but think it’s clear that he would want to be the first choice striker and I absolutely don’t think we can give him any such guarantee. Plus although a better finisher, he is similar in his style to Jesus…and I think what we actually need is a Giroud type player to give us something from route one and set pieces.

Either way despite what I said about 88 goals, the majority of that came from four players in the attacking diamond…and we probably could do with maybe a main focal point than rely on same four players to get the same amount of goals again (especially a player like Odegaard…for his position 15 goals in a season is more of an outlier than the usual)

[mandela8]

If Bellingham is worth 88m, Rice is worth 14, max.

[Mac76]

Hmm, on one hand I do agree 100% with you that we do not have a real clinical finisher in the team. How much of an issue that is though I’m really not sure….there were four games last season in the league where we failed to score…and scored 88 goals.

With Balogun it’s hard to know, because he has been playing in an inferior league…and we had our fingers burnt by Nicolas Pepe based on his performances/goal scoring in Ligue 1 (and even then half the goals were penalties)

It would of course be my preference to keep him and sell Nketiah, but think it’s clear that he would want to be the first choice striker and I absolutely don’t think we can give him any such guarantee. Plus although a better finisher, he is similar in his style to Jesus…and I think what we actually need is a Giroud type player to give us something from route one and set pieces.

Either way despite what I said about 88 goals, the majority of that came from four players in the attacking diamond…and we probably could do with maybe a main focal point than rely on same four players to get the same amount of goals again (especially a player like Odegaard…for his position 15 goals in a season is more of an outlier than the usual)

we've enough big games to keep someone like Balogun happy, we will have to have a good squad that can reliably beat the 'lesser' PL teams without using all the 'best' players we have, as they will need to be focussed on th CL at times.

then there's the FAC (I CGAF about the League Cup) - we should be trying for a 15th win rather than being dumped out in the 3rd round.

I can't help feeling Balogun isn't Arteta's type of player, in that he is not a pliable ball of putty that will run around as many traffic cones as Arteta wants without questionning why

[HCZ_Reborn]

we've enough big games to keep someone like Balogun happy, we will have to have a good squad that can reliably beat the 'lesser' PL teams without using all the 'best' players we have, as they will need to be focussed on th CL at times.

then there's the FAC (I CGAF about the League Cup) - we should be trying for a 15th win rather than being dumped out in the 3rd round.

I can't help feeling Balogun isn't Arteta's type of player, in that he is not a pliable ball of putty that will run around as many traffic cones as Arteta wants without questionning why


To be honest I don’t see it, as I said already too similar to Gabriel Jesus and there’s no guarantee he’s a better finisher because he’s played in an inferior league. Clear we would get some decent money for him that I’d like to spend on a Giroud like player

Honestly think Edward is good enough to play in the FA cup.


As for whether Arteta doesn’t like him. The same was said about Saliba a year or two ago and yet he played pretty much every game in the league before he got injured

Although I still think he treated Auba badly, I think Arteta is more likely to pass players over that he doesn’t rate. For instance I’m not buying that Tierney is a strong personality, he just clearly isn’t.

Although I don’t rate them Xhaka and Zinchenko?, neither are meek lambs….in fact the more I think about it I think he would have reintegrated Guendouzi into the side if he rated him, he didn’t.

Now obviously I’ve said that Arteta falls out with players too easily, but in some ways I question that a bit

I question his judgement on what is a good player but even with Auba you could argue that he was getting rid of a player who wasn’t performing.

Now I mean what I say between Balogun and Nketiah I’d rather keep Balogun, but if we spent the money we get for him on a different kind of striker (one over 6ft for instance) I’m not going to be too heartbroken to see him go

[Mac76]

To be honest I don’t see it, as I said already too similar to Gabriel Jesus and there’s no guarantee he’s a better finisher because he’s played in an inferior league. Clear we would get some decent money for him that I’d like to spend on a Giroud like player

Honestly think Edward is good enough to play in the FA cup.


As for whether Arteta doesn’t like him. The same was said about Saliba a year or two ago and yet he played pretty much every game in the league before he got injured

Although I still think he treated Auba badly, I think Arteta is more likely to pass players over that he doesn’t rate. For instance I’m not buying that Tierney is a strong personality, he just clearly isn’t.

Although I don’t rate them Xhaka and Zinchenko?, neither are meek lambs….in fact the more I think about it I think he would have reintegrated Guendouzi into the side if he rated him, he didn’t.

Now obviously I’ve said that Arteta falls out with players too easily, but in some ways I question that a bit

I question his judgement on what is a good player but even with Auba you could argue that he was getting rid of a player who wasn’t performing.

Now I mean what I say between Balogun and Nketiah I’d rather keep Balogun, but if we spent the money we get for him on a different kind of striker (one over 6ft for instance) I’m not going to be too heartbroken to see him go

Ok, to answer some of your points:

The 'inferior leqgue' thing clearly isn't definitive as Saliba, after playing in that league, established himself as one of the best CBs in the PL in one season.

Of course he could have done so the year before had not Arteta, with typical conservative caution, said he 'wasn't ready' and in the process endangered our ongoing relationahip with him to the point where he may still leave, if so partly because he thinks Arteta is an arse for not playing him sooner (as do I)

And Eddie simply isn't good enough for any Arsenal team in any competition, he's way below par and should be sold asap while we can get a decent price for him

Keeping him will prove Arteta is far too predicated towards submissive types who never in any way contradict anything he says ever, a trait you've rightly said is present in him to an alarming degree

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ok, to answer some of your points:

The 'inferior leqgue' thing clearly isn't definitive as Saliba, after playing in that league, established himself as one of the best CBs in the PL in one season.

Of course he could have done so the year before had not Arteta, with typical conservative caution, said he 'wasn't ready' and in the process endangered our ongoing relationahip with him to the point where he may still leave, if so partly because he thinks Arteta is an arse for not playing him sooner (as do I)

And Eddie simply isn't good enough for any Arsenal team in any competition, he's way below par and should be sold asap while we can get a decent price for him

Keeping him will prove Arteta is far too predicated towards submissive types who never in any way contradict anything he says ever, a trait you've rightly said is present in him to an alarming degree


I disagree that Eddie is not good enough for Arsenal in any competition, throughout our history we’ve had back up strikers like him…he’s certainly no worse than players like Bendtner, Vela, Wiltord (although Wiltord was more of a wide player than a striker I guess)

He’s been a consistent performer in the cup competitions. No he absolutely shouldn’t be a first team starter but definitely scored enough to be a backup.

In respect of Ligue 1, my argument is the inferiority of the league means it’s hard to tell whether Balogun could perform at that level in the premier league. With Saliba he did have a reputation for being impetuous and I don’t think it’s especially done us any harm that he was kept in France for a year longer.


With Auba, with Ozil (although Ozil’s a cunt so there’s that) and with Guendouzi there was clear evidence that Arteta couldn’t handle these players. I don’t see any evidence of that here, Balogun doesn’t strike me as a big personality he’s largely just got on with his football. But the fact is come the summer it will be his agent on the phone to Edu saying either let my client go to a big club or make him a first teamer.

And I think if Arteta was solely obsessed with pliable players to the exclusion of everything else, there’s just no way he would have brought in Saliba full stop.

But apart from anything else, on my list of priorities for this club over the summer. Keeping Balogun doesn’t rate that highly, I will only say I won’t be impressed if we don’t spend the money we get for him on a striker that will offer us something a bit different (like an Aerial presence)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Timothy Castagne ? Fuck off

[GP]

He's just take Holding's place in the squad. It's not exciting but they can't all be.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He's just take Holding's place in the squad. It's not exciting but they can't all be.

It’s not about excitement, it’s about competence


Eeerily similar to a comment I made just now on the politics thread

[Mac76]

Eeerily similar to a comment I made just now on the politics thread

Which you're just pointing out, even though you aren't in any way seeking validation on here...

[HCZ_Reborn]

Which you're just pointing out, even though you aren't in any way seeking validation on here...

Bit of a low blow using a man’s words against him

You don’t see me doing to you

Don’t see me going “wah I’m a whiny little bitch who’s boyfriend hasn’t given him head in three weeks”

It would be totally uncanny if I did though

[Marc Overmars]

Guess another full back is needed but Castagne is a weird one.

[mandela8]

Guess another full back is needed but Castagne is a weird one.

Literally can't be any worse than Ben Shite, tbf.

Sen a lot of links to the Boey guy in Turkey. The more link there are the less believable they each become though.

[Marc Overmars]

Reports that we’ve agreed a 100m fee for Rice. :popcorn:

[Mac76]

Reports that we’ve agreed a 100m fee for Rice. :popcorn:

Whether or not he's a good player, what a ridiculous amount of money

[Chippy]

Whether or not he's a good player, what a ridiculous amount of money
And we thought £79m for Pepe was a waste of money 😂 FFS

[mandela8]

Reports that we’ve agreed a 100m fee for Rice. :popcorn:

Surely that has to include a load of completely unrealistic add ons??

[Niall_Quinn]

Surely that has to include a load of completely unrealistic add ons??

Yep. We have to avoid collapse at a critical stage of the season and refrain from releasing a fifth kit halfway through the season. As such, real fee is £5.50.

[Niall_Quinn]

Is Rice that West Ham bod? He's average at best, unless he's come on leaps and bounds in the last year. Which, I suppose, warrants the fee in this league.

Could have, should have spent 100 mill on somebody who can reliably stick the ball in the net. £100mill down the drain and no chance of significant transfer activity then.

Maybe next year.

So I can now make my prediction for 2023/24

3rd. Because sone of the other moneybags teams will properly strengthen.

Still, maybe there's a chance we have another hundred mill laying around? After those ticket prices and a billion kit variations, it's not inconceivable.

[Letters]

Could have, should have spent 100 mill on somebody who can reliably stick the ball in the net.
People keep saying this and while that is also my instinct, defence seemed to be the bigger problem last year. City only scored something like 5 more goals than us despite having the cheat code that is Haaland

[GP]

I reckon we should sign Mbappe

[Letters]

Hanson :bow:

[HCZ_Reborn]

People keep saying this and while that is also my instinct, defence seemed to be the bigger problem last year. City only scored something like 5 more goals than us despite having the cheat code that is Haaland

The system we play rather than the defence itself, despite my broadsides against Holding he is no worse than any defender you’d get in a mid table premier league team but we play a way that involves holding a high line which means we win the ball back higher up the pitch but if you don’t have quick defenders it can leave you vulnerable.

The funny thing is we actually kept more clean sheets than City

We were in many ways fortunate that we had three non strikers get into double figures for us last season.

Mbappe for me is one of the worlds best striker currently, him and Haaland in the same team would be Shearer and Sutton on steroids.

We clearly need a central midfielder, but if Mbappe is available…he might be worth revising our summer transfer plans for

[HCZ_Reborn]

Hanson :bow:

I see what you did there :arry:

[Letters]

Mbappe for me is one of the worlds best striker currently, him and Haaland in the same team would be Shearer and Sutton on steroids.
If City sign him then we might as well all pack up and go home. Doubt they will though, they really don't need him.
Although we did score a lot of goals last year we don't have a "Haaland", there's zero chance we'd sign Mbappe but bloody hell, if we did then we'd have a serious chance next year.

[Mac76]

The system we play rather than the defence itself, despite my broadsides against Holding he is no worse than any defender you’d get in a mid table premier league team but we play a way that involves holding a high line which means we win the ball back higher up the pitch but if you don’t have quick defenders it can leave you vulnerable.

The funny thing is we actually kept more clean sheets than City

We were in many ways fortunate that we had three non strikers get into double figures for us last season.

Mbappe for me is one of the worlds best striker currently, him and Haaland in the same team would be Shearer and Sutton on steroids.

We clearly need a central midfielder, but if Mbappe is available…he might be worth revising our summer transfer plans for

The defensive issue was also a result of sticking rigidly to the inverted left-back system using a toilet-brush-haired little moron who can't defend as a notional LB

I'd like to think Mbappe would think of Arsenal as a fun team to play for with lots of exciting young players.

My main worry as always would be Arteta not being able to cope with a player of Mbappe's stature and so doing something dumb like playing him out of position to prove a point and then freezing him out for being 'difficult' when he complained

[Marc Overmars]

Mbappe will surely only go to Real Madrid.

If there was even the slightest chance we could sign him then I would absolutely suggest stopping everything to try and get him. The very idea of him signing for Arsenal is ludicrous though. :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

The defensive issue was also a result of sticking rigidly to the inverted left-back system using a toilet-brush-haired little moron who can't defend as a notional LB

I'd like to think Mbappe would think of Arsenal as a fun team to play for with lots of exciting young players.

My main worry as always would be Arteta not being able to cope with a player of Mbappe's stature and so doing something dumb like playing him out of position to prove a point and then freezing him out for being 'difficult' when he complained


It didn’t help but a lot of the goals we conceded started with attacks coming down Ben White’s side of the pitch, or on occasion when Partey was sloppy in possession and Saliba was out of position.


Zinchenko as I’ve consistently stated understands the role of a left back about as well as a border collie understands the function of the Kennel club and whilst he was responsible for us giving away goals or getting rinsed on our left hand side, probably not as much as might think.

[GP]

His wages are obviously ludicrous and we really couldn't afford him.

Having said that, if Josh wants to show that they're serious about this...

[HCZ_Reborn]

Mbappe will surely only go to Real Madrid.

If there was even the slightest chance we could sign him then I would absolutely suggest stopping everything to try and get him. The very idea of him signing for Arsenal is ludicrous though. :lol:

Oh I think the chances are slim to none, and given Mbappe has stated he’s staying with PSG it looks like Slim just left town

But definitely a player would go all out for even with the remotest hint of a glimmer of a possibility

[GP]

Kai Havertz

[Marc Overmars]

No thanks.

In other news, Bellingham signs for Real Madrid.

[IBK]

I think Rice is pretty much done or at least agreed in "private and principle between Rice, West Ham and Arsenal". Rice has made it pretty clear that he wants to stay in London and there are numerous reports of his admiration for Arteta, our playing style and new found status / improvement.

I like Rice as a player, I think he is overpriced but it is what it is, he will most definitely improve our team and we should have him for a good few years too.

Plus there's the soft element too. If an established England player and West Ham captain wants to come to us and we are prepared to pay £100M then this is an important indicator of where we are and a signal to other potential signings of our ambition. I like the fact that it is looking like we will get this done with minimal fuss. Plus there's the leadership aspect - if Xhaka is going then by all accounts Rice fits a similar mould - which is important. I agree with you re Caceido, but I can see why Rice is the priority for us for the reasons above.

As for the price, I smile at the people who think that £100M (which is clearly an 'all possible add ons' figure that Arsenal always seem to be quotes as paying - unlike other teams) is too much while some of them lamented us not going to this figure for Mudryk...

[Letters]

I think it's just an objectively obscene amount of money for a football transfer.
Even if in today's market it's the going rate. The going rate is mental, it's why people are paying £1500 for their season tickets and £80 for their replica shirts.

[GP]

I think it's just an objectively obscene amount of money for a football transfer.
Even if in today's market it's the going rate. The going rate is mental, it's why people are paying £1500 for their season tickets and £80 for their replica shirts.

If you think that's obscene, guess how much the Saudi's are paying Benzema..

[Marc Overmars]

It’s all stupid money but if you want a player enough then you have to pay the market rate. No doubt we’d be absolutely roasted if we didn’t get the Rice deal over the line, so it’s about time we started acting like a top club in the transfer market.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s all stupid money but if you want a player enough then you have to pay the market rate. No doubt we’d be absolutely roasted if we didn’t get the Rice deal over the line, so it’s about time we started acting like a top club in the transfer market.

Surely the guiding principle of the club shouldn’t be to avoid being mocked by social media trolls


There’s paying over the odds and there’s paying an obscene amount for a player who isn’t even that good


Caicedo? Would pay that much for him because I think he’s the player we need in central midfield.


I’d not be happy spending 50 million on Rice

[Marc Overmars]

Surely the guiding principle of the club shouldn’t be to avoid being mocked by social media trolls


There’s paying over the odds and there’s paying an obscene amount for a player who isn’t even that good


Caicedo? Would pay that much for him because I think he’s the player we need in central midfield.


I’d not be happy spending 50 million on Rice

Not about the trolls, I’m thinking more about the perception of Arsenal dining at this table. Rice (whether you rate him or not) is probably the hottest property in the league at the moment. I think it would be a bit of a statement if Arsenal, who are notoriously flaky in the transfer market, signed a 100m player who could have gone elsewhere for a more guaranteed shot at trophies. Rice wants to play for us, that’s the big thing here and it must be capitalised on now. Could have a priceless knock on effect for other players who are on the fence about joining Arsenal.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Anyone else sick of hearing the Rice to Arsenal transfer saga already?

Apparently, terms are agreed, Rice only wants to come to us (1st choice anyway) - but once again we are haggling over the price.

They want £100m and we have offered £70m & are prepared to wait.

fucking groundhog day.

Don't get me wrong, I don't ever think we should over pay for players, but someone like Rice is not ever going to be cheap in today's climate.
If we really made him our no.1 target in January - then just fucking go and get him.

Do we really want to get shafted at the last minute on a another transfer target??

[KSE Comedy Club]

Not about the trolls, I’m thinking more about the perception of Arsenal dining at this table. Rice (whether you rate him or not) is probably the hottest property in the league at the moment. I think it would be a bit of a statement if Arsenal, who are notoriously flaky in the transfer market, signed a 100m player who could have gone elsewhere for a more guaranteed shot at trophies. Rice wants to play for us, that’s the big thing here and it must be capitalised on now. Could have a priceless knock on effect for other players who are on the fence about joining Arsenal.

This :gp:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Not about the trolls, I’m thinking more about the perception of Arsenal dining at this table. Rice (whether you rate him or not) is probably the hottest property in the league at the moment. I think it would be a bit of a statement if Arsenal, who are notoriously flaky in the transfer market, signed a 100m player who could have gone elsewhere for a more guaranteed shot at trophies. Rice wants to play for us, that’s the big thing here and it must be capitalised on now. Could have a priceless knock on effect for other players who are on the fence about joining Arsenal.

Is probably the hottest property in the league right now?

Is he? Bayern have pulled out because they think he’s over priced, haven’t heard a dicky bird from United or Newcastle and Chelsea where he was originally meant to have gone, are looking at Caicedo the player we should be after

[selassie]

Plus there's the soft element too. If an established England player and West Ham captain wants to come to us and we are prepared to pay £100M then this is an important indicator of where we are and a signal to other potential signings of our ambition. I like the fact that it is looking like we will get this done with minimal fuss. Plus there's the leadership aspect - if Xhaka is going then by all accounts Rice fits a similar mould - which is important. I agree with you re Caceido, but I can see why Rice is the priority for us for the reasons above.

As for the price, I smile at the people who think that £100M (which is clearly an 'all possible add ons' figure that Arsenal always seem to be quotes as paying - unlike other teams) is too much while some of them lamented us not going to this figure for Mudryk...

Yeah I agree IBK. Rice will be a real statement signing and further proof that we are now seen as a desirable destination again. If we pull off Caicedo too that would be some coup and would set us for years in Central Midfield.

The price is high but not totally surprising, if he improves our team and helps us win trophies then it's money well spent regardless of the price.

[selassie]

Kai Havertz

This one scares me and seems to have a lot of legs, Ornstein is all over it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Don’t want Donkey Boy here. That’s one Chelsea cast off too many

[selassie]

Don’t want Donkey Boy here. That’s one Chelsea cast off too many

Don't want him either. He will come on big wages and I don't see where he fits in, because he wouldn't be first choice and I would question how much value he would even add as a rotation player, would he even come here as that?

[GP]

I don't want him either. Was the next big thing in Germany but it's not worked out for him at Chelsea. Too high a risk.


Plus he looks like Theon Greyjoy from Aliexpress

[Marc Overmars]

Is probably the hottest property in the league right now?

Is he? Bayern have pulled out because they think he’s over priced, haven’t heard a dicky bird from United or Newcastle and Chelsea where he was originally meant to have gone, are looking at Caicedo the player we should be after

That’s because it’s probably become apparent that we’re his preferred move and West Ham aren’t going to stand in his way.

Caicedo will go to the highest bidder. Hopefully we’re part of that conversation too.

[Marc Overmars]

Havertz is a sloth and a poor finisher.

Absolutely no need for him here tbh.

[Mac76]

Havertz is a sloth and a poor finisher.


Competition for Eddie? ;)

[fakeyank]

I don’t think it’s a case of not wanting Balogun to stay, it’s probably more about him preferring to leave to be the main man somewhere now, I can’t see him warming the bench after the season he’s had. Realistically he isn’t going to get more than a few run outs in the cups if he stayed with us. We’ve got a good spread of goals across the front line so I’m not sure what we’d be missing because he’s a similar type of striker to Eddie. I think we need to be looking at a more physical striker to give us the option of mixing it up.

The loan worked a treat for all parties. We can get good money for Balogun and put it towards other areas of the squad. Stick a sell-on fee on him too incase he really explodes. Unfortunately we don’t have an infinite money cheat code, so we need to be a little clever with how we operate and moving on surplus players for good money is part of it.

I dont think he is like Eddie tbf. I think he has a very good all round game and drifts in very well from the left. If we are to sell him, I would rather put a buy-back clause or the very least a sell-on fee like you said.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Competition for Eddie? ;)

We don't need Eddie either tbf.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Is probably the hottest property in the league right now?

Is he? Bayern have pulled out because they think he’s over priced, haven’t heard a dicky bird from United or Newcastle and Chelsea where he was originally meant to have gone, are looking at Caicedo the player we should be after

Bayern have pulled out because they don't see him wanting to go anywhere but Arsenal, ie they have already lost the battle from the players side.
Not because he is too expensive.

[Mac76]

We don't need Eddie either tbf.

No we don't, that was my point, Arteta apparently thinking Eddie is good eniugh is deeply worrying, he's nowhere near good enough

[IBK]

Not about the trolls, I’m thinking more about the perception of Arsenal dining at this table. Rice (whether you rate him or not) is probably the hottest property in the league at the moment. I think it would be a bit of a statement if Arsenal, who are notoriously flaky in the transfer market, signed a 100m player who could have gone elsewhere for a more guaranteed shot at trophies. Rice wants to play for us, that’s the big thing here and it must be capitalised on now. Could have a priceless knock on effect for other players who are on the fence about joining Arsenal.

Yep :gp:

[IBK]

This one scares me and seems to have a lot of legs, Ornstein is all over it.

It also looks very 'Arsenal' if you see what i mean. I guess we have to have faith that Arteta can get him playing again if this happens...

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ornstein also reports that City are showing interest in Rice

Oh man I hope this is true

Let them pay silly money for him, also will be amusing to see Trust the Process cultists yowling like dogs kicked in the nuts

[KSE Comedy Club]

No we don't, that was my point, Arteta apparently thinking Eddie is good eniugh is deeply worrying, he's nowhere near good enough

Yes I agree.

It's odd that he did a good job when he filled in for Jesus, then got dropped for weeks and didn't look anywhere near the player when he got game time again.

But ultimately we need a damn sight better than that if we are to push on.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Didn’t realise Rice had one year left on his contract

West Ham are taking diabolical liberties

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9Jg3CFMaOzE/XtEREtXjo4I/AAAAAAAAvZ4/zrEJDqHC8zASvKFlMkZzvf_D6Pc4VsrqQCK4BGAsYHg/just_walk_away.gif

[cricketsi]

Didn’t realise Rice had one year left on his contract

West Ham are taking diabolical liberties

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-9Jg3CFMaOzE/XtEREtXjo4I/AAAAAAAAvZ4/zrEJDqHC8zASvKFlMkZzvf_D6Pc4VsrqQCK4BGAsYHg/just_walk_away.gif

I heard West Ham have an option to extend, so it's effectively 2 years remaining.

[Mac76]

Yes I agree.

It's odd that he did a good job when he filled in for Jesus, then got dropped for weeks and didn't look anywhere near the player when he got game time again.

But ultimately we need a damn sight better than that if we are to push on.

I think he'd dropped off before Jesus came back tbh, he has short periods where he plays well, like the end of last season, where he makes things happen, e.g. those runs at the opposition goalie to put them under pressure, but it doesn't last, I don't know whether Arteta has coached it out of him or what.

[selassie]

Ornstein also reports that City are showing interest in Rice

Oh man I hope this is true

Let them pay silly money for him, also will be amusing to see Trust the Process cultists yowling like dogs kicked in the nuts

It would be typical of Arsenal to end up with neither Rice or Caicedo and take Havertz off Chelsea!!! :lol:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1c0c0190-0b5f-11ee-947c-69265173b330?shareToken=c7548539be4e7d6af0357c136a 417a9d

Apparently we have withdrawn our interest in Caicedo, it's in the link above.

[Chippy]

It would be typical of Arsenal to end up with neither Rice or Caicedo and take Havertz off Chelsea!!! :lol:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/1c0c0190-0b5f-11ee-947c-69265173b330?shareToken=c7548539be4e7d6af0357c136a 417a9d

Apparently we have withdrawn our interest in Caicedo, it's in the link above.
I do look forward to our transfer business. We let everyone know our targets and get gazumped as soon as we bid :lol:. We are truly terrible at this process.

[HCZ_Reborn]

West Ham want either 100 million and a player or 120 million. They are taking the piss

Don’t know how much Fabrizio Romano is reliable but has claimed that the problem for Arsenal getting big deals over the line is Kroenke. Even though he’s put his idiot son there on a day to day basis, he has to sign off on the big money signings personally

[Marc Overmars]

Give them that bum Lokonga if we have to.

[WMUG]

Give them that bum Lokonga if we have to.

:gp:

Two birds, one stone.

[selassie]

West Ham want either 100 million and a player or 120 million. They are taking the piss

Don’t know how much Fabrizio Romano is reliable but has claimed that the problem for Arsenal getting big deals over the line is Kroenke. Even though he’s put his idiot son there on a day to day basis, he has to sign off on the big money signings personally

If we don't secure Rice big questions will need to be asked of Edu and the Kroenke's, we have gone very public with this pursuit feeding the media since January that he is our primary target.

I don't know what discussions we have had with West Ham, but I hoped we would get this wrapped up quickly, we must know what they want, pay it or pursue other targets.

[HCZ_Reborn]

If we don't secure Rice big questions will need to be asked of Edu and the Kroenke's, we have gone very public with this pursuit feeding the media since January that he is our primary target.

I don't know what discussions we have had with West Ham, but I hoped we would get this wrapped up quickly, we must know what they want, pay it or pursue other targets.

It’s a sellers market

I think 80million + add ons is far more generous than we should be even in this crazy market

We should move on…who cares how long we been linked with him.

[Mac76]

I do look forward to our transfer business. We let everyone know our targets and get gazumped as soon as we bid :lol:. We are truly terrible at this process.

This, it's already looking embarrassing,

Mind you if it means we end up like we did in January, with some reasonably-priced but good players, I'll be happy.

I think Havertz might be quite good btw but we shouldn't go crazy on him

[Marc Overmars]

The only thing that intrigues me about Havertz is that he’s significantly taller than the rest of our attacking unit. I’d still prefer a natural centre forward though, not a jack of all trades master of none player.

[selassie]

The only thing that intrigues me about Havertz is that he’s significantly taller than the rest of our attacking unit. I’d still prefer a natural centre forward though, not a jack of all trades master of none player.

He went to Chelsea with a big rep, he was really highly rated at the time and the next big thing in German Football, he's flopped at Chelsea, a waste of money on the whole, though that CL Final winning goal earnt him time there. If he comes here and doesn't improve then we are stuck with him on presumably big wages, he will be very difficult to shift unless we take a hit.

For the price I personally think we can find someone with a lot less question marks and probably on lesser wages too.

[selassie]

It’s a sellers market

I think 80million + add ons is far more generous than we should be even in this crazy market

We should move on…who cares how long we been linked with him.

They want circa 100million, yes it's crazy but the market is the market. I guess my point is more that if we are so hot on him, we seem to be. Just pay the fee or move on. We've got a lot of business to do this window, we can't be dragging this out all summer long.

[HCZ_Reborn]

They want circa 100million, yes it's crazy but the market is the market. I guess my point is more that if we are so hot on him, we seem to be. Just pay the fee or move on. We've got a lot of business to do this window, we can't be dragging this out all summer long.

Nah fuck that, it’s an insult to play anywhere near the amount Real paid for Bellingham when Rice is average and Bellingham could be world class

[selassie]

Nah fuck that, it’s an insult to play anywhere near the amount Real paid for Bellingham when Rice is average and Bellingham could be world class

Out of curiosity who would you go for? We can wipe Caicedo off the list as he looks Chelsea bound now.

[Marc Overmars]

To be fair the fee for Grealish was heavily derided at the time but he’s turned into a beast now. Granted that’s City but I don’t really see why Rice couldn’t excel in a better team. He’s literally the best interceptor in the league, which suggests his reading of the game is very good. Beats having a ponderous player like Xhaka in there.

It’s overpriced for sure but as mentioned a lot of it is down to the fact he wants to play for us. We could go and identify a better player for 100m but there’s no guarantee that player would even be interested. Timing is everything and if Rice is our man then I would suggest getting the job done ASAP and heading into the new season with plan A secured.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Out of curiosity who would you go for? We can wipe Caicedo off the list as he looks Chelsea bound now.

Why wipe out Caicedo? We’ve opted not to go for him because presumably we can’t afford Rice and Caicedo when the latter is clearly better go for the latter

[selassie]

Why wipe out Caicedo? We’ve opted not to go for him because presumably we can’t afford Rice and Caicedo when the latter is clearly better go for the latter

We have walked away from Caicedo, or that is what is being reported. I suspect Rice is actually very close if not done but possibly at a fee a bit higher than we originally anticipated we would have to pay.

I only say this because as MO said, Rice wants to come here, that's been clear for quite a while.

I'm behind the signing to be honest, I think he will be a great player for us, I like him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm behind the signing to be honest, I think he will be a great player for us, I like him.

Well nobody’s perfect

[Marc Overmars]

Inter have enquired about Balogun. We’re apparently looking for 35-40m.

[selassie]

Well nobody’s perfect

:d

[HCZ_Reborn]

Being Linked with Roméo Labia

Let Chelsea overpay for this one

[dostoy]

Surely all Man City have to do to get Rice is to offer money AND Phillips.

[selassie]

Surely all Man City have to do to get Rice is to offer money AND Phillips.

Rice only wants us according to the reports. I think the City link is to spice up the story / pressure from West Ham to get us to give them what they want, i'd be surprised if Rice isn't done soon, if it is not already.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’d be careful about putting too much stock in that, apparently Baldryck only wanted us

[Marc Overmars]

Surely all Man City have to do to get Rice is to offer money AND Phillips.

Phillips is probably a reminder for Rice to not go there. He’ll probably just be taking his spot on the bench.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Phillips is probably a reminder for Rice to not go there. He’ll probably just be taking his spot on the bench.

If that’s true, maybe then that should give us pause as to why we want to spend 100 million on him

A player valued that much should be an instant starter even at a club like City

[selassie]

I’d be careful about putting too much stock in that, apparently Baldryck only wanted us

The difference is Rice only wants us as he doesn't currently want to move his young family out of the London area, I suspect if Chelsea weren't in a mess and had a good season he would have been off there.

Mudryk did want to move to us ahead of Chelsea but they offered better terms on the deal to Shaktar and he went there, i personally think he would have gone to any of the big 6 had they offered a better deal than Chelsea, Shaktar were very much in control of that deal and to a lesser extent Mudryk's destination. Caicedo seems to be similar to Mudryk in that he just wants out of Brighton to move to a more prestigious club and obviously increase his earning potential. Going by the reports, Caicedo seems quite happy to move to Chelsea in their current state.

I am not saying Rice will 100% happen, but it seems like it's a case of he moves to us this summer or he sees out his contract and moves to a London club next summer on a free. Rice situation is very different to Mudryk.

Thinking logically about this, the deal will get done at 100million or around that mark, it's halfway in the middle of our initial offer and West Ham's demands for him. I also think we will have to structure the deal more favourably to get it done, our first offer stretching it out over 6 years didn't impress West Ham.

[Marc Overmars]

PSG want Arteta apparently. According to the French press.

What a curve ball that would be if it happened.

[HCZ_Reborn]

PSG want Arteta apparently. According to the French press.

What a curve ball that would be if it happened.


Sadly I’ve read that he’s turned them down

[Mac76]

Sadly I’ve read that he’s turned them down

:ilt:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I find the Havertz move really bizarre honestly.

Not least because it helps Chelsea out not just with booting him out but also helps them in going for Caicedo.

[Chippy]

I find the Havertz move really bizarre honestly.

Not least because it helps Chelsea out not just with booting him out but also helps them in going for Caicedo.
Hopefully PSG come back in for Arteta and Havertz will go with him.