Summer Transfers 2025 Missed Opportunities and Regrets

[HCZ_Reborn]

Though additionally if we want players that are better at trapping long balls, this is why I’ve weighed in heavily in favour of us signing Morgan Rodgers.

Plus In Zubimendi we have signed someone who has immensely good passing range so that will help in terms of transition play

[Niall_Quinn]

Fair enough, I disagree that Gyokeres is a better striker. I think the difference is the respective levels both are playing at

As for the system. I think we are often at danger of over complicating things. If we want quicker more efficient football, we simply don’t play two defensive midfielders in every game. Fruitless sideways passing is a consequence of teams getting back into position rather than a feature of how we intend to play. I think we want to sign more players who have a good first touch and do well against the press. Sesko is one such player

The speed at which we transition the ball from back to front is what's key in breaking down ANY type of defence. As Arsenal fans above all others we should be fully aware of this, having watched Wenger's earlier teams mercilessly destroy all-comers in seconds, often scoring goals from THEIR corners! We know this, we have seen this with our own eyes, experienced it and it was mightily successful. We should have won a CL on the back of it but we fucked it up in a one-off match. That's the target - where we are now it the low water mark, tip, tap, drip, drip, drip. Slooooooooooow - plodding, ponderous, over and over and over again, backs to goal, players gesturing furiously for somebody else to get upfield and then turning around and passing it backwards, taking 20 minutes over a throw or free kick, Raya fucking around at the back. And plenty more besides - the utter frustration of the modern Arsenal game. CONFIRMED as being down to Arteta who plans it all so meticulously "we don't even need to think"!

Why do you think he wants Sesko over Gyokeres? Think about how Havertz is deployed. Now stick Sesko in there and that's the vision for 2025/26 and beyond. Okay so Zubi's a better passer - agreed, but Odegard was a good passer too until he was bored to death by our system. Who is Zubi passing to? Saka - with his back to goal? Havertz/ Sesko - with his back to goal? Martinelli/ Williams with his back to goal? Or 3 yards to Rice, 5 yards backwards to Saliba, 7 yards through the middle to an out of position MLS with his back to goal inside the opposition box? He's not going to be spraying passes in behind the wide defenders for our wingers to chase is he? Or putting the ball over the top for Sesko to fight for. Not in Arteta's world.

If we brought in Gyokeres or Isak Arteta would be FORCED to change the system or else it would be a complete waste of time. Think of the players we have who could benefit from a more direct game. Rice, Partey, Martinelli, Trossard, Saka, Nwaneri, MLS, Ode... well okay not him, even Cala, Merino. They are all WASTED in the current system, fucking about racking up stats instead of goals.

Can't you see the writing on the wall with Arteta's choices?

[Niall_Quinn]

Though additionally if we want players that are better at trapping long balls, this is why I’ve weighed in heavily in favour of us signing Morgan Rodgers.

Plus In Zubimendi we have signed someone who has immensely good passing range so that will help in terms of transition play

Don't know anything about Rodgers, but if he's a bastard that can run and knows where the goal is, sign him up!

[Niall_Quinn]

If Gyokeres comes to another team in the PL i'm betting a handsome sum at the bookies that he outscores Sesko if that's who we go for, a) because he's a better striker and b) because Arteta, as NQ, KSE and others point out, Arteta is wedded to a failed system

Bookies won't take bets on sure things. Gyokeres could rejuvenate an almost clapped out Utd, I'd be breaking the bank for him in their situation. Except they already burned the bank down and pissed on the ashes. I wonder can they afford him even?

[HCZ_Reborn]

The speed at which we transition the ball from back to front is what's key in breaking down ANY type of defence. As Arsenal fans above all others we should be fully aware of this, having watched Wenger's earlier teams mercilessly destroy all-comers in seconds, often scoring goals from THEIR corners! We know this, we have seen this with our own eyes, experienced it and it was mightily successful. We should have won a CL on the back of it but we fucked it up in a one-off match. That's the target - where we are now it the low water mark, tip, tap, drip, drip, drip. Slooooooooooow - plodding, ponderous, over and over and over again, backs to goal, players gesturing furiously for somebody else to get upfield and then turning around and passing it backwards, taking 20 minutes over a throw or free kick, Raya fucking around at the back. And plenty more besides - the utter frustration of the modern Arsenal game. CONFIRMED as being down to Arteta who plans it all so meticulously "we don't even need to think"!

Why do you think he wants Sesko over Gyokeres? Think about how Havertz is deployed. Now stick Sesko in there and that's the vision for 2025/26 and beyond. Okay so Zubi's a better passer - agreed, but Odegard was a good passer too until he was bored to death by our system. Who is Zubi passing to? Saka - with his back to goal? Havertz/ Sesko - with his back to goal? Martinelli/ Williams with his back to goal? Or 3 yards to Rice, 5 yards backwards to Saliba, 7 yards through the middle to an out of position MLS with his back to goal inside the opposition box? He's not going to be spraying passes in behind the wide defenders for our wingers to chase is he? Or putting the ball over the top for Sesko to fight for. Not in Arteta's world.

If we brought in Gyokeres or Isak Arteta would be FORCED to change the system or else it would be a complete waste of time. Think of the players we have who could benefit from a more direct game. Rice, Partey, Martinelli, Trossard, Saka, Nwaneri, MLS, Ode... well okay not him, even Cala, Merino. They are all WASTED in the current system, fucking about racking up stats instead of goals.

Can't you see the writing on the wall with Arteta's choices?

Like a lot of your posts, a lot of writing to say not a lot

The reason we became all sideways passing and slow build up under Wenger was because teams found us out, they made sure they didn’t overcommit to be liable to the break that you talk about.

It wasn’t a result of tactical stubbornness that meant that City spent the whole game playing in front of Palace two weeks ago, it was because Palace were incredibly disciplined, even when they broke they made sure they didn’t overcommit and it was only near the end where they began to tire that the game got stretched.

Where we want to get to is having players who can operate in restricted space so we are not having to overcommit to get goals and where we can exploit the space left by other teams who have to overcommit to get back into the game.

And then we equally have the direct pace merchants like Saka, Martinelli to punish teams on the counter when they do

[HCZ_Reborn]

Bookies won't take bets on sure things. Gyokeres could rejuvenate an almost clapped out Utd, I'd be breaking the bank for him in their situation. Except they already burned the bank down and pissed on the ashes. I wonder can they afford him even?

He could, but I’m betting more likely that he’d be dragged down by the mediocrity around him, they are close to flogging Bruno Fernandes

[Mac76]

Don't know anything about Rodgers, but if he's a bastard that can run and knows where the goal is, sign him up!

I'd take him at Arsenal, Villa missed out on the CL so maybe he could be pried away

He's not an out amd out striker though so it doesn't solve that issue

[Niall_Quinn]

Like a lot of your posts, a lot of writing to say not a lot

The reason we became all sideways passing and slow build up under Wenger was because teams found us out, they made sure they didn’t overcommit to be liable to the break that you talk about.

It wasn’t a result of tactical stubbornness that meant that City spent the whole game playing in front of Palace two weeks ago, it was because Palace were incredibly disciplined, even when they broke they made sure they didn’t overcommit and it was only near the end where they began to tire that the game got stretched.

Where we want to get to is having players who can operate in restricted space so we are not having to overcommit to get goals and where we can exploit the space left by other teams who have to overcommit to get back into the game.

And then we equally have the direct pace merchants like Saka, Martinelli to punish teams on the counter when they do

Well it's quite strange then, seeing as we have the best defence in the league yet we look like utter shit just by Liverpool humping long balls to Salah, or their fullbacks attacking us at pace. It's odd how every defence that has to face a bit of pace and directness suddenly turns to shite. Your insistence that everything has to be played at a snail's pace because defenders defend is about as compelling as you claiming Gyokeres has been playing at a lower level than Sesko. Neither true at all, there are maybe, what, two half decent teams in the German league? Sesko plays for neither. And it's just common sense to say giving defenders less time to do all that defending you think is impenetrable is a better bet than playing snooker in front of a massed ten behind the ball who stroll from defensive shape to defensive shape without a care in the world. Pep conned a lot of people, including you.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'd take him at Arsenal, Villa missed out on the CL so maybe he could be pried away

He's not an out amd out striker though so it doesn't solve that issue

Yeah well, we're getting Havertz and Odegard again so I guess we best get used to it.

[Niall_Quinn]

He could, but I’m betting more likely that he’d be dragged down by the mediocrity around him, they are close to flogging Bruno Fernandes

Possibly, probably, but if they don't stage a comeback by some means or another they are going to be down for a long spell, and maybe even out. They can't afford to NOT sign some players to dig them out. It'll be sickening if the striker we need ends up there.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well it's quite strange then, seeing as we have the best defence in the league yet we look like utter shit just by Liverpool humping long balls to Salah, or their fullbacks attacking us at pace. It's odd how every defence that has to face a bit of pace and directness suddenly turns to shite. Your insistence that everything has to be played at a snail's pace because defenders defend is about as compelling as you claiming Gyokeres has been playing at a lower level than Sesko. Neither true at all, there are maybe, what, two half decent teams in the German league? Sesko plays for neither. And it's just common sense to say giving defenders less time to do all that defending you think is impenetrable is a better bet than playing snooker in front of a massed ten behind the ball who stroll from defensive shape to defensive shape without a care in the world. Pep conned a lot of people, including you.

Ok just respond to what you think I’ve said in order to shoe horn in a narrative. Cool

[KSE Comedy Club]

Day 2 of the transfer window:

No. of signings - 0
Players likely to leave - 1

:tumbleweed:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I haven’t got the energy to start bitching and whining before August, a) because there’s nothing I can do about it anyway, b) Yeah I get all the we need these players ready for pre-season stuff but pre-season has long ago stopped being about getting prepared for the season, and is totally just about filling the coffers.

I’ve largely been against most of the signings we’ve made over the past few years, so it’s nice to be in a position where I do approve of the two likely incoming signings.

Will I be happy when this transfer window closes? No because I’m never completely happy. But as long as we strengthen the squad especially in the offensive and creative areas….and don’t waste any money on defenders or backup keepers I’ll be reasonably content

[KSE Comedy Club]

I haven’t got the energy to start bitching and whining before August, a) because there’s nothing I can do about it anyway, b) Yeah I get all the we need these players ready for pre-season stuff but pre-season has long ago stopped being about getting prepared for the season, and is totally just about filling the coffers.

I’ve largely been against most of the signings we’ve made over the past few years, so it’s nice to be in a position where I do approve of the two likely incoming signings.

Will I be happy when this transfer window closes? No because I’m never completely happy. But as long as we strengthen the squad especially in the offensive and creative areas….and don’t waste any money on defenders or backup keepers I’ll be reasonably content

I would have expected one player to be announced - Zubimendi is supposedly complete bar a medical.

It would just be nice for once, if the club showed real serious intent instead of the usual pissing about talking, looking, inquiring, thinking, etc, that is usually reported.

What is the point of this thread if not to discuss transfers or lack of :shrug:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I would have expected one player to be announced - Zubimendi is supposedly complete bar a medical.

It would just be nice for once, if the club showed real serious intent instead of the usual pissing about talking, looking, inquiring, thinking, etc, that is usually reported.

What is the point of this thread if not to discuss transfers or lack of :shrug:

I said I personally can’t be bothered to bitch and moan, if you feel that’s me closing you down…I don’t know what to tell you

[KSE Comedy Club]

I said I personally can’t be bothered to bitch and moan, if you feel that’s me closing you down…I don’t know what to tell you

I don't feel you are closing me down, just removing yourself from the conversation.

[HCZ_Reborn]

In many ways I’ve made my point, I’ve never been sold on Gyokeres therefore I’m glad we are skipping him. And I like Sesko, I like his first touch, his movement on the ball etc and I don’t hold with the idea that one is a gamble and one is a sure thing. Other people on here don’t agree with me, and that’s fine but I don’t see anything to be gained by continuing a discussion on the matter, especially when there are others talking with such certainty when they accuse me of doing the same (not you by the way).

I felt back in February that there was little sense in talking about changing style of play because we didn’t have any attacking options. This summer well I’ve stated my solution which is to have a more offensive minded and quicker player than Rice at no8 (that’s considered heresy) in many games. I think at home we have to push up too much to have any attacking momentum and that is why we dropped so many points from winning positions….either chasing the two goal cushion or feeling we can’t do that and withdrawing.

I do think it’s naive to say players should just get forward quicker, well yes ideally they would…but the reason players play the ball back or play safe passes is because they are worried about being dispossessed. My solution is therefore to have players more comfortable with ball to feet and operating in tight spaces, to suck defenders in and create space elsewhere.

This is what Liverpool have done successfully for ages, they suck defenders in and then bring other players into the game

You need players that have a good first touch, can play the ball under pressure etc. Zubimendi is an interesting one because although he has a far superior passing range to Rice, he can probably be more easily outmuscled than Rice so there creates a vulnerability aspect with high pressing

But its swings and roundabouts because he would be able to release the ball forward quicker than Partey or Rice

Martinelli is an exceptional player for counter attacking situations, but we arguably need a winger who can deal well with restricted space. For me this makes Morgan Rodgers an ideal signing as he can play as both an attacking midfielder and a winger

[KSE Comedy Club]

In many ways I’ve made my point, I’ve never been sold on Gyokeres therefore I’m glad we are skipping him. And I like Sesko, I like his first touch, his movement on the ball etc and I don’t hold with the idea that one is a gamble and one is a sure thing. Other people on here don’t agree with me, and that’s fine but I don’t see anything to be gained by continuing a discussion on the matter, especially when there are others talking with such certainty when they accuse me of doing the same (not you by the way).

I felt back in February that there was little sense in talking about changing style of play because we didn’t have any attacking options. This summer well I’ve stated my solution which is to have a more offensive minded and quicker player than Rice at no8 (that’s considered heresy) in many games. I think at home we have to push up too much to have any attacking momentum and that is why we dropped so many points from winning positions….either chasing the two goal cushion or feeling we can’t do that and withdrawing.

I do think it’s naive to say players should just get forward quicker, well yes ideally they would…but the reason players play the ball back or play safe passes is because they are worried about being dispossessed. My solution is therefore to have players more comfortable with ball to feet and operating in tight spaces, to suck defenders in and create space elsewhere.

This is what Liverpool have done successfully for ages, they suck defenders in and then bring other players into the game

You need players that have a good first touch, can play the ball under pressure etc. Zubimendi is an interesting one because although he has a far superior passing range to Rice, he can probably be more easily outmuscled than Rice so there creates a vulnerability aspect with high pressing

But its swings and roundabouts because he would be able to release the ball forward quicker than Partey or Rice

Martinelli is an exceptional player for counter attacking situations, but we arguably need a winger who can deal well with restricted space. For me this makes Morgan Rodgers an ideal signing as he can play as both an attacking midfielder and a winger

Ok, but what transfer news do you have or have you seen that is relevant to my post earlier?

It still stands.....

Transfer window Day 2:

No. of signings - 0
Players likely to leave - 1

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ok, but what transfer news do you have or have you seen that is relevant to my post earlier?

It still stands.....

Transfer window Day 2:

No. of signings - 0
Players likely to leave - 1

I don’t and that’s why I said I’m not personally going to bitch and moan about what we have or haven’t yet done

I’m laying out my stall for what I think we need and how we should approach things for the next season

[Letters]

Ok, but what transfer news do you have or have you seen that is relevant to my post earlier?

It still stands.....

Transfer window Day 2:

No. of signings - 0
Players likely to leave - 1

It's the 2nd of June :shrug:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ok, but what transfer news do you have or have you seen that is relevant to my post earlier?

It still stands.....

Transfer window Day 2:

No. of signings - 0
Players likely to leave - 1

Why is the number for your players likely to leave so low?

Tierney-contract ended
Jorginho- contract ended
Partey- contact ended
Trossard- a year left, likely to be sold
Zinchenko- a year left, likely to be sold
MLS- a year left, apparently not agreeable to terms offered
Tomiyassu- a year left, but an option for a year's extension

So clearly it looks like the 2nd successive summer we'll be getting leaner rather than growing.

[Letters]

Why is the number for your players likely to leave so low?

Tierney-contract ended
Jorginho- contract ended
Partey- contact ended
Trossard- a year left, likely to be sold
Zinchenko- a year left, likely to be sold
MLS- a year left, apparently not agreeable to terms offered
Tomiyassu- a year left, but an option for a year's extension

So clearly it looks like the 2nd successive summer we'll be getting leaner rather than growing.

It is still the 2nd of June

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It is still the 2nd of June

:lol: it seems you prefer this forum quiet......just like our summer would likely be ( sorry, I couldn't resist :haha: )

[HCZ_Reborn]

:lol: it seems you prefer this forum quiet......just like our summer would likely be ( sorry, I couldn't resist :haha: )

This suggests that the frustration/annoyance is performance rather than genuine

And I’m sure that’s not the case

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

This suggests that the frustration/annoyance is performance rather than genuine

And I’m sure that’s not the case

I'm actually not upset yet, at least we haven't signed Sesko for a gazillion dollars...so I'll wait before I throw my tantrums.

I was genuinely trying to find out why KSE feels only one person is leaving.... but it seems Letters doesn't like idle chatter on an internet forum :lol:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

What's everyone having for tea?

[dazthegooner]

Steak and potatoes

[HCZ_Reborn]

What's everyone having for tea?

Ortolan drowned in Armagnac

Deep fried and then swallowed whole, feathers, beak, bones and all

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Oo lovely.





Not sure if I agree with that Steak and potatoes weirdness though.


:unsure:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

https://youtu.be/5FST5OvlbFc?si=NZK6TZyZO4cOxBCC

[Marc Overmars]

Barca are interested in Partey if we don’t offer him a new deal.

[HCZ_Reborn]

According to Ornstein, Mbeumo wants to go to Man United

That gives me every impression of a player who wants a big pay day but without the pressure or expectation to rise about his current level.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Barca are interested in Partey if we don’t offer him a new deal.

If Barca are serious, he's gone.

They only need to match our wages and offer a 2-3 year contract.

He has played in Spain already so will be comfortable and will also be able to finally get away from the silly boos & whispers.

[HCZ_Reborn]

If Barca are serious, he's gone.

They only need to match our wages and offer a 2-3 year contract.

He has played in Spain already so will be comfortable and will also be able to finally get away from the silly boos & whispers.

The whispers that say he sexually assaulted his partner?

I mean if there’s any actual truth to those rumours…probably wouldn’t be the worst thing ever to put some daylight between him and us. Clubs generally don’t fare being seen to support players who engage in this kind of behaviour, so if he’s publicly named could be a headache

On the other hand, Barca are still a complete and utter mess, there’s still a wrangle between them and La Liga over the registration of Dani Olmo because they are in violation of the wage bill cap…so I’m guessing they’d need to sell players first

[KSE Comedy Club]

It's the 2nd of June :shrug:

Yes it is, what's your point?

Remember when we didn't do any business in January as we had our targets and strategy and it was all lined up for the summer transfer window, new sporting director, etc - according to reports.

So I was expecting to see the results of that early doors.
But it seems we are clearly dithering again and don't have a clear strategy.

Zubimendi?
That was a done deal a few months ago remember, around season ticket renewal time. Why hasn't he been announced then?

This is a huge summer, the big one, where all the years of building and sticking to the process starts to pay off.

And according to Arteta's own comments "when I think about the summer window, I get goosebumps" or whatever perverse weirdness happens to him - so I expected things to be moving quickly.


"we need more playa"

:good:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Why is the number for your players likely to leave so low?

Tierney-contract ended
Jorginho- contract ended
Partey- contact ended
Trossard- a year left, likely to be sold
Zinchenko- a year left, likely to be sold
MLS- a year left, apparently not agreeable to terms offered
Tomiyassu- a year left, but an option for a year's extension

So clearly it looks like the 2nd successive summer we'll be getting leaner rather than growing.

I was only going by what has so far been made public knowledge.

Jorg has already left the club. Partey is the only player so far in the media talking with another club.

That's not to say that we all know the players you mentioned are probably going.

[KSE Comedy Club]

According to Ornstein, Mbeumo wants to go to Man United

That gives me every impression of a player who wants a big pay day but without the pressure or expectation to rise about his current level.

Yes I think that too.

[KSE Comedy Club]

The whispers that say he sexually assaulted his partner?

I mean if there’s any actual truth to those rumours…probably wouldn’t be the worst thing ever to put some daylight between him and us. Clubs generally don’t fare being seen to support players who engage in this kind of behaviour, so if he’s publicly named could be a headache

On the other hand, Barca are still a complete and utter mess, there’s still a wrangle between them and La Liga over the registration of Dani Olmo because they are in violation of the wage bill cap…so I’m guessing they’d need to sell players first

I did think that myself, I was half hoping that he would move on so we could distance ourselves from any potential fallout.

[Letters]

Yes it is, what's your point?
Does that really need explaining? It's a transfer window which goes on for months, not a transfer weekend.


But it seems we are clearly dithering again and don't have a clear strategy.
It's the 3rd of June.


Zubimendi?
That was a done deal a few months ago remember
No, I don't remember. Says who? I seriously doubt the club were saying that.


This is a huge summer, the big one, where all the years of building and sticking to the process starts to pay off.

Agreed, but it's a huge summer which goes on for months. There's a lot of press chatter and rumour, like every other transfer window.
Some people seem to think that football transfers are like going to the shops and getting some milk. It isn't like that. There's a lot of negotiations about how much the milk costs and how much you have to pay it to stay in your house. The milk might prefer to go to another house and other houses are trying to persuade it that it should do so.
It's complicated.
Now I guess you're going to say "well other clubs just go out and buy players" to which I'm going to respond "no they don't". I'm sure there are examples where that happens but there are lots of protracted deals with other clubs too - the main difference is you don't follow those as closely because it's not your club so you don't care so much.

TL;DR - this is a big summer for us, but that summer goes on all...well, summer. So while sure, it would be nice to have had some big deals wrapped up already that doesn't seem realistic. The longer the summer goes on the more worried I will become if we haven't done business, but right now the dust of the season has only just settled.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Does that really need explaining? It's a transfer window which goes on for months, not a transfer weekend.


It's the 3rd of June.


No, I don't remember. Says who? I seriously doubt the club were saying that.



Agreed, but it's a huge summer which goes on for months. There's a lot of press chatter and rumour, like every other transfer window.
Some people seem to think that football transfers are like going to the shops and getting some milk. It isn't like that. There's a lot of negotiations about how much the milk costs and how much you have to pay it to stay in your house. The milk might prefer to go to another house and other houses are trying to persuade it that it should do so.
It's complicated.
Now I guess you're going to say "well other clubs just go out and buy players" to which I'm going to respond "no they don't". I'm sure there are examples where that happens but there are lots of protracted deals with other clubs too - the main difference is you don't follow those as closely because it's not your club so you don't care so much.

TL;DR - this is a big summer for us, but that summer goes on all...well, summer. So while sure, it would be nice to have had some big deals wrapped up already that doesn't seem realistic. The longer the summer goes on the more worried I will become if we haven't done business, but right now the dust of the season has only just settled.

Utd have announced an agreement to sign Cunha - but that can't be possible according to you. (announced yesterday 2nd June - day 2 of the window)


https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13375784/man-utd-transfer-news-matheus-cunha-completes-62-5m-move-to-join-ruben-amorim-at-old-trafford-from-wolves#:~:text=Manchester%20United%20have%20announ ced%20an,opening%20day%20of%20the%20window.

I'm not the only one who remembers Zubi deal being announced, its all over socials


https://x.com/87gunners/status/1929809818698592677

I'm not an unrealistic man, we all know these deals can take time and there are things to be negotiated.
However, we supposedly have a clear plan with specific targets and a new director to get them acquired quickly and decisively.

But so far we have nothing.

What is the point of this thread if we can't make conversation??

[Letters]

Utd have announced an agreement to sign Cunha - but that can't be possible according to you.
I literally said in the post you are replying to: "I'm sure there are examples where that happens".


I'm not the only one who remembers Zubi deal being announced, its all over socials
Socials :lol:
The bastion of truth. Behave yourself.


What is the point of this thread if we can't make conversation??
That's what we are doing now, isn't it? We just have different views. I don't think you're being realistic, you think I'm being too patient.
We see this play out during a season when people lose their shit over every poor result, I tend to take a longer term view.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I literally said in the post you are replying to: "I'm sure there are examples where that happens".

And I provided one that happened yesterday and I was specifically responding to your statement:


"well other clubs just go out and buy players" to which I'm going to respond "no they don't"

But yet, they do it seems.


Socials :lol:
The bastion of truth. Behave yourself.

Where do you think it came from originally - thats right, the media not socials.
Here you are:


https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13288591/arsenal-transfers-gunners-closing-in-on-deal-to-sign-martin-zubimendi-from-real-sociedad-in-the-summer

Arsenal transfers: Gunners closing in on deal to sign Martin Zubimendi from Real Sociedad in the summer - Tuesday 14 January 2025 22:20, UK



This was right around season ticket renewal time as I remember people commenting it was the usual club ploy to get them signed up.


That's what we are doing now, isn't it? We just have different views. I don't think you're being realistic, you think I'm being too patient.
We see this play out during a season when people lose their shit over every poor result, I tend to take a longer term view.

I'm a patient man, I have no issue with waiting for us to get all our business done over the course of a summer.
However, we were led to believe by the club that some deals are already tied up, some are going to be tied up quickly and some are still in limbo.

I would have expected to have seen an announcement of something concrete by now (yes even though the window has just opened).

We all know a striker is no.1 priority (two if it were me in charge) and it seems we are still deciding which one we want.

[Letters]

However, we were led to believe by the club that some deals are already tied up, some are going to be tied up quickly.
Were we?
The link you provided contained no quotes from the club at all.
You know that a lot of this stuff is made up or, at best, speculation?
I was watching "The Rest is Entertainment" podcast some weeks back and they were noting how "a source close to..." is always just completely made up.
Things will be announced when they are announced. There are some positive noises and I doubt those things are completely baseless. But these things are generally complicated with lots of moving parts.

[HCZ_Reborn]

What is the point of this thread if we can't make conversation??

This is what I was a bit confused by yesterday, that you see disagreement with your despair (or a lack of shared despair if you will) as an attempt to close you down.

You’ve explained why you think it’s not precipitous, and whilst I can’t say I’m particularly convinced…I’d say that in itself is conversational

[KSE Comedy Club]

Were we?
The link you provided contained no quotes from the club at all.
You know that a lot of this stuff is made up or, at best, speculation?
I was watching "The Rest is Entertainment" podcast some weeks back and they were noting how "a source close to..." is always just completely made up.
Things will be announced when they are announced. There are some positive noises and I doubt those things are completely baseless. But these things are generally complicated with lots of moving parts.

Yes no doubt sometimes that is true, but there is also no doubt that sometimes there are people with official sources that do know things as well.

Well we may as well close this thread then as there is nothing worth talking about until an official announcement :shrug:

[KSE Comedy Club]

This is what I was a bit confused by yesterday, that you see disagreement with your despair (or a lack of shared despair if you will) as an attempt to close you down.

You’ve explained why you think it’s not precipitous, and whilst I can’t say I’m particularly convinced…I’d say that in itself is conversational

This is a thread to discuss transfer news, yes?

So I initially stated that we had signed no one and there was one player likely to leave, which was met with push back. You specifically saying you were not going to "start bitching and whining before August"

Ok, that's cool, but I personally believe we should be getting business done long before that, for pre-season purposes mainly and to tie up our targets before other clubs come sniffing around.

Now Letters seems to think that because the window has only just opened, no business can possibly be done without it taking weeks.
Whereas that is somewhat true, it seems that WE take weeks to get anything done, as other clubs announce signings in much shorter spaces of time.

Ultimately, it seems as though me saying 'we haven't signed anyone yet' has created this air that I am somehow over reacting or being ridiculous to think that we have a plan and work on our targets was initiated before the window opened.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The Zubimendi deal is barring hijacking all done with, the papers like to entice readership by claiming that hijacking could be in progress. Alonso was interested in Zubimendi but Real Madrid politely reminded him that he has no say over transfers.

Within reason, it doesn’t matter if it’s announced today or on July 1st.

I would imagine personal terms are all agreed, and possibly the only thing left to resolve is the structure of payments

I would imagine it’s a similar situation with Sesko (although I read that we still have Gyokeres in the rear view mirror in case the deal for Sesko ends up being too expensive, though I find it curious how for such an obviously top striker there hasn’t been anyone so far who has come in to snatch him up)


Liverpool moved quickly with Frimpong because there was acrimony over the departure of TAA and they were trying their best to fill that position as quick as possible, so wouldn’t exactly say they’ve strengthened. I think the Wirz move might not happen because Leverkusen are demanding more than Liverpool are willing to pay


What Man United do in the transfer market doesn’t bother me because they are such a hot mess. I think they really need to go back to the drawing board, but they seem to be adopting our transfer strategy from six years ago where making one or two signings will get them where they want to be. When in fact the whole team is dysfunctional and I think Amorim was a flavour of the month coach who is horrendously out of his depth.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Day 3 of the transfer window:

No. of signings - 0
Players likely to leave - 1

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is a thread to discuss transfer news, yes?

So I initially stated that we had signed no one and there was one player likely to leave, which was met with push back. You specifically saying you were not going to "start bitching and whining before August"

Ok, that's cool, but I personally believe we should be getting business done long before that, for pre-season purposes mainly and to tie up our targets before other clubs come sniffing around.

Now Letters seems to think that because the window has only just opened, no business can possibly be done without it taking weeks.
Whereas that is somewhat true, it seems that WE take weeks to get anything done, as other clubs announce signings in much shorter spaces of time.

Ultimately, it seems as though me saying 'we haven't signed anyone yet' has created this air that I am somehow over reacting or being ridiculous to think that we have a plan and work on our targets was initiated before the window opened.

I think he’s suggesting your despairing tone is a tad over the top, and that whilst yes it’s entirely possible to have a signing done this early. The fact that we haven’t made a signing yet doesn’t suggest we aren’t acting with urgency. You can at least see that right?

[KSE Comedy Club]

The Zubimendi deal is barring hijacking all done with, the papers like to entice readership by claiming that hijacking could be in progress. Alonso was interested in Zubimendi but Real Madrid politely reminded him that he has no say over transfers.

Within reason, it doesn’t matter if it’s announced today or on July 1st.

I would imagine personal terms are all agreed, and possibly the only thing left to resolve is the structure of payments

I would imagine it’s a similar situation with Sesko (although I read that we still have Gyokeres in the rear view mirror in case the deal for Sesko ends up being too expensive, though I find it curious how for such an obviously top striker there hasn’t been anyone so far who has come in to snatch him up)


Liverpool moved quickly with Frimpong because there was acrimony over the departure of TAA and they were trying their best to fill that position as quick as possible, so wouldn’t exactly say they’ve strengthened. I think the Wirz move might not happen because Leverkusen are demanding more than Liverpool are willing to pay


What Man United do in the transfer market doesn’t bother me because they are such a hot mess. I think they really need to go back to the drawing board, but they seem to be adopting our transfer strategy from six years ago where making one or two signings will get them where they want to be. When in fact the whole team is dysfunctional and I think Amorim was a flavour of the month coach who is horrendously out of his depth.

But again, Liverpool had a position they needed to fill / strengthen and they have managed it within two days. They have also put in two offers now for Wirz, so they are showing their intent to strengthen and get players in the position they need.

If we have Zubi deal sorted, then why not just make it official? what is this incessant need with us, to draw things out for so long?

It's not about what Man Utd are doing per se, more that they are doing things quickly.

This is three fold:
1. it gets the targets they want.
2. it stops other clubs coming in and creating a bidding war.
3. it shows decisive intent.

Look what happened with Mudryk for example. Now yes, he turned out to be bang average and a bit of a greedy tosser by all accounts - but he was the player Arteta & Edu wanted.

We courted him for the entire window, dithered back & forth about the fee and how the payments would be structured, only for the chavs to come in and snatch him away within a week.

Circumstances aside, that is one of the reasons why I think we need to do our business much more quickly and efficiently.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think he’s suggesting your despairing tone is a tad over the top, and that whilst yes it’s entirely possible to have a signing done this early. The fact that we haven’t made a signing yet doesn’t suggest we aren’t acting with urgency. You can at least see that right?

Of course, although I don't agree that I have a 'despairing tone' lol.
But I can also disagree with him and state for a fact that we haven't signed anyone yet & based on our history in transfer market dealings, we do like to elongate and piss about with our targets.
More so than other clubs do.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Day 3 of the transfer window:

No. of signings - 0
Players likely to leave - 1

:gp: ....if Sir Keir can express his frustrations, we should be allowed to also ;)

[KSE Comedy Club]

:gp: ....if Sir Keir can express his frustrations, we should be allowed to also ;)

Careful now, you may be at risk of coming across with a 'despairing tone' :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Of course, although I don't agree that I have a 'despairing tone' lol.
But I can also disagree with him and state for a fact that we haven't signed anyone yet & based on our history in transfer market dealings, we do like to elongate and piss about with our targets.
More so than other clubs do.

You may not intend to have a despairing tone but that’s how it’s coming across

[Letters]

Well we may as well close this thread then as there is nothing worth talking about until an official announcement :shrug:
Why do you keep on conflating me disagreeing with you with me shutting you down or stopping you talking about stuff?
If I wanted to do that I would use my POWERS to delete your posts or just lock the thread.
Talk about what you like, dude. There's little or no moderation on here these days.
If you want to wring your hands every day about nothing being announced then go nuts.
I just think you're being a bit silly so I'm saying so. If this were mid-August then I'd be concerned too. But it isn't, so I'm not.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Careful now, you may be at risk of coming across with a 'despairing tone' :lol:

And now the victimhood, please stop pretending that you’re being tone policed

It’s an observation nothing more.

Plus using Mudryk as an example. Shaktah wanted a payment structure and frankly a fee that was outrageous. If you want a player but you don’t want to meet the clubs price, you let things drag out…I don’t see an issue with that. Clubs like Chelsea want to swoop in oh well, we had a backup option in Trossard and got in there quite quickly.

That seemed like a pretty efficient way of doing things if you ask me

[HCZ_Reborn]

:gp: ....if Sir Keir can express his frustrations, we should be allowed to also ;)

Who is stopping you from expressing your frustrations

[Letters]

:gp: ....if Sir Keir can express his frustrations, we should be allowed to also ;)

Again, who do you think is stopping you?

[Letters]

Who is stopping you from expressing your frustrations

Jinx!

[Letters]

Of course, although I don't agree that I have a 'despairing tone' lol.
we do like to elongate and piss about with our targets.
More so than other clubs do.
I'm interested in that claim. I don't know if that's true. It certainly feels like it might be. But I'd suggest one factor here is how with our own transfer sagas we probably follow them more closely than other clubs. Every set of fans feels their club is uniquely hard done by by officials, which obviously can't be true. So this could be the same - maybe supporters of every club feel their club is uniquely inept in the transfer market and slow to wrap up deals.
Honestly, I don't know.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Why do you keep on conflating me disagreeing with you with me shutting you down or stopping you talking about stuff?
If I wanted to do that I would use my POWERS to delete your posts or just lock the thread.
Talk about what you like, dude. There's little or no moderation on here these days.
If you want to wring your hands every day about nothing being announced then go nuts.
I just think you're being a bit silly so I'm saying so. If this were mid-August then I'd be concerned too. But it isn't, so I'm not.

because you are evil :satan:

Obviously, this is all tongue in cheek to an extent, we just have different expectations on the subject. ;)

[KSE Comedy Club]

I'm interested in that claim. I don't know if that's true. It certainly feels like it might be. But I'd suggest one factor here is how with our own transfer sagas we probably follow them more closely than other clubs. Every set of fans feels their club is uniquely hard done by by officials, which obviously can't be true. So this could be the same - maybe supporters of every club feel their club is uniquely inept in the transfer market and slow to wrap up deals.
Honestly, I don't know.

I'm in the same boat to a degree.

It certainly does feel like every transfer we do takes weeks or has some form of 'saga' attached to it, but then we see other clubs just pop out announcements like they are going out of fashion.

I think you could be right and it just seems that way because it's us, I dunno :shrug:

[KSE Comedy Club]

And now the victimhood, please stop pretending that you’re being tone policed

It’s an observation nothing more.

Plus using Mudryk as an example. Shaktah wanted a payment structure and frankly a fee that was outrageous. If you want a player but you don’t want to meet the clubs price, you let things drag out…I don’t see an issue with that. Clubs like Chelsea want to swoop in oh well, we had a backup option in Trossard and got in there quite quickly.

That seemed like a pretty efficient way of doing things if you ask me

I'm having a bit of fun mate, it's really not that deep :)
But now you mention it, I do feel that you are oppressing me and my 'tone' :(

We still haven't signed anyone though.... just sayin.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I'm interested in that claim. I don't know if that's true. It certainly feels like it might be. But I'd suggest one factor here is how with our own transfer sagas we probably follow them more closely than other clubs. Every set of fans feels their club is uniquely hard done by by officials, which obviously can't be true. So this could be the same - maybe supporters of every club feel their club is uniquely inept in the transfer market and slow to wrap up deals.
Honestly, I don't know.

Going by last season alone, there is evidence to say we do piss about when it comes to transfers.

Let's not forget, we all thought we'd get a striker in last summer only for it not to happen and the excuse being our targets were not available i.e. Sesko signing a long term extension.

January comes up, and the need for a striker is greater and the new excuse becomes no one of quality is available..... only for us to make a half hearted last minute bid/inquiry for Watkins.

To add to that, Villa end up selling Duran unexpectedly (he was the one they wanted to keep apparently but they had to meet FFP I think) and still manage to recruit Rashford and Malen in that short period. Let's not also forget Citeh swooping for the other Egyptian who revives their season without much noise and fanfare.

I'm sure most fans feel their clubs don't act fast enough in the transfer window, but under AW and Arteta (I don't think it was that bad under Emery actually), we've got more than enough cases to cite to fuel this belief, IMO of course.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Just seen the news that Chelsea is pulling out of their obligation to buy Sancho for £25m and willing to pay the £5m penalty.

I want to believe the penalty clause swings both ways and hope we have that in place for Tavares as letting Lazio get him for sub £10m seems ridiculous to me (this is a defender who achieved as many assists as Odegaard did this season).

[IBK]

So...the points made about it being very early in the transfer window are sensible of course.

But I think the frustration that many fans feel about Arsenal's transfer business is that we rarely move both decisively and quickly when it comes to getting busines done. I'll admit that I don't follow other clubs' transfer business closely, so I could be wrong, but it seems to me that our 'competitors' often don't seem to string out negotiations like we do. Even when we commit to spending big on a transfer - like with Rice - the period from our reported interest to getting the deal over the line seems very protracted - I think with Rice it was 6 months or so. This tends to deny us fans the excitement of a new signing - which is partly why the reported Zubimendi deal now feels a bit flat - it's been in the offing for so long.

The other issue is that having had 2 busts as far as transfer seasons go, and with the appointment of Berta - the natural expectation is that we would have our ducks lined up as regards our obvious and pressing transfer needs. Yet to us fans' outside view the appearance is that we are not as far along the line as might have been expected - particularly given that we were effectively told in January that the club had decided to wait to the Summer to land their long term targets rather than make a more pragmatic purchase. This understandably has made Gooners impatient for the results we have been waiting for.

Sure - we have no way of knowing exactly what is happening, and outside appearances - combined with transfer clickbait - can be deceptive. As long as we sign the players we need before pre-season training in the second half of July then any delay between then and now matters little. But Arsenal for a long time has given the impression that it plays with its food a bit when it comes to getting transfers over the line, and I can empathise with fans who fel a bit frustrated at this.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The Zubimendi deal was agreed upon in January, near as I can make out. Sociedad want to wait until July to conclude it for reasons of accountancy.

If transfer sagas drag out…I can’t say I really care as long as the squad looks like one that can compete come August 31st/September 1st.

The main frustration last summer and January was that we clearly needed a striker and didn’t buy one.

[IBK]

The Zubimendi deal was agreed upon in January, near as I can make out. Sociedad want to wait until July to conclude it for reasons of accountancy.

If transfer sagas drag out…I can’t say I really care as long as the squad looks like one that can compete come August 31st/September 1st.

The main frustration last summer and January was that we clearly needed a striker and didn’t buy one.

Yeah - I get it (although the most effective signings have time to bed in). We live, unfortunately in an age where (PSR aside) a few of our competitors do not have to consider finances when committing to deals. I do wish however that sometimes our club could look first at player requirements rather than (apparently) trying to play hardball with fees. IMHO it is this more than anything that holds up the deals we do.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Going by last season alone, there is evidence to say we do piss about when it comes to transfers.

Let's not forget, we all thought we'd get a striker in last summer only for it not to happen and the excuse being our targets were not available i.e. Sesko signing a long term extension.

January comes up, and the need for a striker is greater and the new excuse becomes no one of quality is available..... only for us to make a half hearted last minute bid/inquiry for Watkins.

To add to that, Villa end up selling Duran unexpectedly (he was the one they wanted to keep apparently but they had to meet FFP I think) and still manage to recruit Rashford and Malen in that short period. Let's not also forget Citeh swooping for the other Egyptian who revives their season without much noise and fanfare.

I'm sure most fans feel their clubs don't act fast enough in the transfer window, but under AW and Arteta (I don't think it was that bad under Emery actually), we've got more than enough cases to cite to fuel this belief, IMO of course.

This :gp:

[KSE Comedy Club]

So...the points made about it being very early in the transfer window are sensible of course.

But I think the frustration that many fans feel about Arsenal's transfer business is that we rarely move both decisively and quickly when it comes to getting busines done. I'll admit that I don't follow other clubs' transfer business closely, so I could be wrong, but it seems to me that our 'competitors' often don't seem to string out negotiations like we do. Even when we commit to spending big on a transfer - like with Rice - the period from our reported interest to getting the deal over the line seems very protracted - I think with Rice it was 6 months or so. This tends to deny us fans the excitement of a new signing - which is partly why the reported Zubimendi deal now feels a bit flat - it's been in the offing for so long.

The other issue is that having had 2 busts as far as transfer seasons go, and with the appointment of Berta - the natural expectation is that we would have our ducks lined up as regards our obvious and pressing transfer needs. Yet to us fans' outside view the appearance is that we are not as far along the line as might have been expected - particularly given that we were effectively told in January that the club had decided to wait to the Summer to land their long term targets rather than make a more pragmatic purchase. This understandably has made Gooners impatient for the results we have been waiting for.

Sure - we have no way of knowing exactly what is happening, and outside appearances - combined with transfer clickbait - can be deceptive. As long as we sign the players we need before pre-season training in the second half of July then any delay between then and now matters little. But Arsenal for a long time has given the impression that it plays with its food a bit when it comes to getting transfers over the line, and I can empathise with fans who fel a bit frustrated at this.

All fair, reasoned points and all of which I agree with :)

[KSE Comedy Club]

The Zubimendi deal was agreed upon in January, near as I can make out. Sociedad want to wait until July to conclude it for reasons of accountancy.

If transfer sagas drag out…I can’t say I really care as long as the squad looks like one that can compete come August 31st/September 1st.

The main frustration last summer and January was that we clearly needed a striker and didn’t buy one.

And as of yet.... we still haven't.

Not only are we deciding between Sesko or Gyokores but now today's rumors are we are looking at Barcola from PSG and Watkins again.

That would suggest the dithering is back and the thing with Watkins is, we didn't buy him in January as he wasn't our main target so if we are indeed looking at him again, then why didn't we just buy him when we were so desperately in need ffs :banghead:

[HCZ_Reborn]

And as of yet.... we still haven't.

Not only are we deciding between Sesko or Gyokores but now today's rumors are we are looking at Barcola from PSG and Watkins again.

That would suggest the dithering is back and the thing with Watkins is, we didn't buy him in January as he wasn't our main target so if we are indeed looking at him again, then why didn't we just buy him when we so desperately in need ffs :banghead:

Or it could suggest newspapers are simply generating stories or are in hoc with agents to put a clients name out there to generate interest

[KSE Comedy Club]

Or it could suggest newspapers are simply generating stories or are in hoc with agents to put a clients name out there to generate interest

Well yes there is that - or we could actually be looking at them.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well yes there is that - or we could actually be looking at them.

We could but even if so given Barcola is a winger, that doesn’t suggest necessarily dithering over a Striker

[HCZ_Reborn]

Listen it feels to me like your passing everything through the most negative filter and not completely unfairly, the last two windows were a gigantic shit fest. It’s not that I trust the club to do what it needs to do, it’s just for me too early to be doom mungering over what we haven’t yet done….if you want to get in early and say I told you so a month or so down the line, you go for it. But ultimately I find that “expect the worst and you won’t be disappointed” generally never works like that, so if you require validation, there are others on here to do that better than I can.

If the club doesn’t set its transfer timetable to the whims of pensive fans then I’m not going to get too upset by that. I don’t need the instant gratification of a signing, I more want to know that a player has been signed that will improve us and if that takes time and haggling so be it.

The only choice we are really left with as fans is to give the club and the manager enough rope to hang themselves, the last time I got so wound up when something wasn’t happening was when Abdulbaset Al-Megrahi was released to go home to Libya on compassionate grounds (a lot more compassion than was shown to the poor bastards on that Pan-Am flight or on the ground in Lockerbie). He was expected to die within three months and the bastard went on living for three years. So every month I posted in frustration that he was still alive.

[Letters]

The main frustration last summer and January was that we clearly needed a striker and didn’t buy one.
it was interesting that Arteta also expressed some frustration about that which tells me it's not his fault, or certainly not entirely on him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

On the subject of people that are still alive, and makes me angry. Sidney Cooke….what keeps that rancid fucker going. At the age of 98, does he will himself to keep going in the hope of getting out so he can start abusing children again.

Would there really be an inquiry if a prison officer “accidentally” pushed the evil old cunt down a stair well

[HCZ_Reborn]

it was interesting that Arteta also expressed some frustration about that which tells me it's not his fault, or certainly not entirely on him.

Or he could be deflecting blame from himself?

He’s been given plenty of money to spend one way or the other and in 11 transfer windows, he’s continuously neglected to strengthen us in attacking areas. So he’s not singularly responsible, but neither is he free from responsibility

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

AW thinks we should sign Isak.

I think I can safely assume that Arteta will never go for him as long as he breathes seeing whom the recommendation is coming from.

Though it is a bit funny to see AW reinventing himself from a penny pincher to a realist when it comes to obtaining quality. Took him a while, but he got there.

BTW as much as I love the idea of Isak, I repeat I'd rather use the money needed to complete the deal to get 2 strikers. He's a great player, but not a god.

https://goonernews.com/blog/arsenal-david-seaman-arsene-wenger-alexander-isak/

[HCZ_Reborn]

Is there enmity from Arteta towards Wenger that I’m unaware of?

Let’s be fair, Wenger was only frugal when he had to be. Last five years of his time he spent a fair bit of money (about 375 million odd)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Is there enmity from Arteta towards Wenger that I’m unaware of?

Let’s be fair, Wenger was only frugal when he had to be. Last five years of his time he spent a fair bit of money (about 375 million odd)

It's not like I'm aware of anything either but basing my assumption on Arteta's character...I mean, ain't no way he'll take advice from someone he's hoping to eclipse someday.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://youtu.be/k5tWZHJkjec?si=2tWp2TJd_2q_e3t4

Seems HCZ opened his own youtube channel and didn't mention it :lol:

Seriously though, an interesting look back bringing up a few names one has forgotten about.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Wait? You mean I’m not the only one to notice how players from the Portuguese league don’t always fair well elsewhere?. Knock me down with a feather :lol:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Day 4 of the transfer window:

No. of signings - 0
Players likely to leave - 1

Also Zubimendi has been stirring things up behind the scenes. It was reported that he was in London at the start of the week for his medical with us - to which he responded by uploading photos of himself on the beach.
He then also stated that his future was uncertain and then spoke about Alonso being his idol and he wouldn't rule out joining up with him again.

Not a great start from a supposed 'done deal' signing.

[KSE Comedy Club]

AW thinks we should sign Isak.

I think I can safely assume that Arteta will never go for him as long as he breathes seeing whom the recommendation is coming from.

Though it is a bit funny to see AW reinventing himself from a penny pincher to a realist when it comes to obtaining quality. Took him a while, but he got there.

BTW as much as I love the idea of Isak, I repeat I'd rather use the money needed to complete the deal to get 2 strikers. He's a great player, but not a god.

https://goonernews.com/blog/arsenal-david-seaman-arsene-wenger-alexander-isak/

I'm not so sure, I think Arteta idolises Wenger based on his time at the club as a player.
I'm sure I read somewhere that Wenger said Arteta was always spending time with him asking about coaching, tactics, etc.

[Letters]

It was reported that he was in London at the start of the week for his medical with us

And then


Not a great start from a supposed 'done deal' signing.

He uploaded those photos to demonstrate what a load of bollox the press report. So why did you believe it was a done deal?
There's obviously something going on there, I try not to pay too much attention to press chatter as 90% of it is made up or at best speculative.

[KSE Comedy Club]

And then



He uploaded those photos to demonstrate what a load of bollox the press report. So why did you believe it was a done deal?
There's obviously something going on there, I try not to pay too much attention to press chatter as 90% of it is made up or at best speculative.

Because by all accounts he was set to be signing for us - but his latest comments suggest he is angling for a move to RM.

I mean, I know media talk bollox in the transfer window, but this was reported everywhere since January as happening :shrug:

[Letters]

My default is to ignore the media chatter but there has been a lot about this so it would be annoying if it doesn't happen.
Time will tell I guess.

[Chippy]

Because by all accounts he was set to be signing for us - but his latest comments suggest he is angling for a move to RM.

I mean, I know media talk bollox in the transfer window, but this was reported everywhere since January as happening :shrug:

Dont forget.....Jesus, Gabriel, Tommy and Havertz will be like new signings when they return!

We aint signing anyone of note Guys. Deep down, we all know it. :rose:

[IBK]

And as of yet.... we still haven't.

Not only are we deciding between Sesko or Gyokores but now today's rumors are we are looking at Barcola from PSG and Watkins again.

That would suggest the dithering is back and the thing with Watkins is, we didn't buy him in January as he wasn't our main target so if we are indeed looking at him again, then why didn't we just buy him when we were so desperately in need ffs :banghead:

This encapulates fans' frustrations (that of course will differ from reality), but all we have to go on are the reports.

There could be 2 ways of looking at the Gyokeres/Sesko situation. The first is that no sensible club will be seen to go 'all in' on a single player, because this invites the selling club simply to name its price. The second is that despite Sesko reportedly being Arteta/the club's main target for a year, Arsenal are dithering with alternate choices. I suspect the reality is that we are seeing a bit of both. Under ordinary circumstances this would be understadable - after all you have to approach transfer business with B; C and probably D options. But such is the glaring and damaging need for a striker at Arsenal; and such is our track record of indecisiveness in the market, that being seen to be considering so many different alternatives at this stage does not instill confidence...

[Letters]

We aint signing anyone of note Guys. Deep down, we all know it. :rose:
I'd be surprised if that's true and disappointed if it is.
There surely has to be recognition in the club that we are light up front and that needs addressing if we are serious about challenging next year.
With the CL run we should have the money to splash out.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think my observation is that there is a chasm of difference between going out of your way to piss off and alienate fans and pandering to the whims of fans. If you were the coach or the director of football, you wouldn’t give a fuck who the fans think you should buy and when you should get a transfer completed by, because you have your own internal considerations.

Arteta is a stubborn fuck, but I think there’s no question that he is prepared to do everything to win the big prizes (whether he’s capable of delivering remains to be seen), I have my many differences with him but I think there’s absolutely no doubting his ambition. KSE? I’m not sure I can say the same, although of course they’ve had success with superbowl wins for the Rams franchise, as well as other sports….but too often it feels like they are satisfied with champions league qualification as an ends in of itself because the club is part of their asset portfolio.

If it appears we dither, a) it’s partly because spend more time looking at what we do as a club relative to other clubs b) KSE care more about overheads than success.

If that is the case, there’s not a lot we can do about it….they are never going to sell up because solid assets will always be more valuable to people who have that much wealth than liquid assets.


This is not to say we won’t get the players we need to win the titles we want, it’s just there’s less guarantee of that because it isn’t the first priority of the ownership.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'd be surprised if that's true and disappointed if it is.
There surely has to be recognition in the club that we are light up front and that needs addressing if we are serious about challenging next year.
With the CL run we should have the money to splash out.

Oh we will sign players (and some of note) whether it will be enough signings and whether they will be in areas we need enough to get us where we need to be, that remains to be seen

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think my observation is that there is a chasm of difference between going out of your way to piss off and alienate fans and pandering to the whims of fans. If you were the coach or the director of football, you wouldn’t give a fuck who the fans think you should buy and when you should get a transfer completed by, because you have your own internal considerations.

Arteta is a stubborn fuck, but I think there’s no question that he is prepared to do everything to win the big prizes (whether he’s capable of delivering remains to be seen), I have my many differences with him but I think there’s absolutely no doubting his ambition. KSE? I’m not sure I can say the same, although of course they’ve had success with superbowl wins for the Rams franchise, as well as other sports….but too often it feels like they are satisfied with champions league qualification as an ends in of itself because the club is part of their asset portfolio.

If it appears we dither, a) it’s partly because spend more time looking at what we do as a club relative to other clubs b) KSE care more about overheads than success.

If that is the case, there’s not a lot we can do about it….they are never going to sell up because solid assets will always be more valuable to people who have that much wealth than liquid assets.


This is not to say we won’t get the players we need to win the titles we want, it’s just there’s less guarantee of that because it isn’t the first priority of the ownership.

This is all sadly very true.

We also had reports yesterday I think, that we are the most well run club in the PL and could spend £200m without worrying about PSR.

[Letters]

Oh we will sign players (and some of note) whether it will be enough signings and whether they will be in areas we need enough to get us where we need to be, that remains to be seen

I don't think we need to go crazy. We weren't far away last year. Only Liverpool were better than us and we've talked about how a few things went for them and against us. Had that gone a different way the gap would have been smaller IMO. In Europe, semi-finals isn't to be sniffed at and we dominated PSG for enough of the 2 legs to suggest that with more up front we could have beaten them.

We need a proper striker and just generally need a bit more depth. But I don't think we have much to do in order to challenge next year.

[Marc Overmars]

I have faith that our summer will be a good one. The faith is because I think it’s likely that Arteta could be sacked next year if this team can’t push on again or even worse, struggle to qualify for the CL. So I think the club will give it everything this summer to try and make next season a success. Can’t be any excuses next season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't think we need to go crazy. We weren't far away last year. Only Liverpool were better than us and we've talked about how a few things went for them and against us. Had that gone a different way the gap would have been smaller IMO. In Europe, semi-finals isn't to be sniffed at and we dominated PSG for enough of the 2 legs to suggest that with more up front we could have beaten them.

We need a proper striker and just generally need a bit more depth. But I don't think we have much to do in order to challenge next year.

I don’t know if we need to “go crazy” but the squad is already quite thin and is likely to get thinner

I think we need a minimum of one striker, a player that can play anywhere amongst the front three and a creative midfielder at bare minimum.


We also need to make sure no money is spent on this Goldilocks left back position, we’ve got MLS and we’ve got Calafiori as a backup that’s better than most sides have. We also shouldn’t be fannying about trying to bring in a reserve goalkeeper and turning that into another Goldilocks position, we don’t need to be eating money that needs to be spent primarily


Really I don’t think we need Zubimendi unless we sell Partey , I’d like to sign him but I think it should then trigger us letting go of Merino.


Everything needs to be geared towards creating more chances and scoring more goals

[Letters]

Everything needs to be geared towards creating more chances and scoring more goals
:gp:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Everything needs to be geared towards creating more chances and scoring more goals

This line above is really everything, and TBH, if you look at our rivals, we actually have the easiest job to do because we are certain all we need to resolve is this, and this alone. Plus we've known this for a year, so our headstart should give us another solid advantage.

Anyway, let's see how it goes, but I tell you for free that I've got my fingers crossed this summer.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I don't think creating chances is necessarily the issue - we created loads this season, we just didn't have anyone to finish them.

I do think adding creativity will help to an extent, but two goal scorers is the big one.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Saw this posted by someone around the interweb:


People can say 'it's only been a few days' all they want but people need to understand...many of us have seen the way this club has operated, and failed, in windows for the last 20 years. We know the telltale signs. We have a healthy level of cynicism. And already, those signs are there.

That's where I think I fall on the subject.

on that note:

Day 5 of the transfer window:

No. of signings - 0
Players likely to leave - 1
Players leaving - 4

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't think creating chances is necessarily the issue - we created loads this season, we just didn't have anyone to finish them.

I do think adding creativity will help to an extent, but two goal scorers is the big one.

I disagree strongly. I think creativity is almost a bigger issue than a goalscorer (clearly we need that as well)

You look at most analysis of our game, we generate few chances inside the box because the defence is packed and we don’t do enough in build up play to commit defenders and breach defensive lines.

We have lots of shots, that’s not the same as creating lots of chances…most of these shots come from areas that have low likelihood of becoming goals, and either go wide or are blocked

[KSE Comedy Club]

I disagree strongly. I think creativity is almost a bigger issue than a goalscorer (clearly we need that as well)

You look at most analysis of our game, we generate few chances inside the box because the defence is packed and we don’t do enough in build up play to commit defenders and breach defensive lines.

We have lots of shots, that’s not the same as creating lots of chances…most of these shots come from areas that have low likelihood of becoming goals, and either go wide or are blocked

In the 23/24 season we created a total of 503 chances.
This season we created a total of 427 chances

Whilst we have dropped in terms of chances created this year, it was the same players creating those chances last season.

So our style of play has hindered our attacking ability but in terms of personnel, they are not strictly the issue.

[HCZ_Reborn]

But that tells you nothing about the type of chances created

Our average XG this season was 1.97

Compare that to Liverpool who were at 2.45

There’s no doubt we need a goalscorer to put away chances, but our XG is not massively in excess of the goals scored. I would imagine last season, that we outperformed our XG

[HCZ_Reborn]

Last season can best be split into two, the first half of the season where we scored 38 goals in 20 games, and the second half where we scored 53 in 18.

Much of that 18 game period we opened the scoring from set pieces, and we scored relatively early on in the game…thus opening up the game

I think what’s changed this season is a) teams did better at neutralising our set piece routines and b) I think teams felt like they could be patient at one goal down and hit us on the break if we overcommitted looking for a second goal to kill things off.

[Chippy]

Saw this posted by someone around the interweb:



That's where I think I fall on the subject.

on that note:

Day 5 of the transfer window:

No. of signings - 0
Players likely to leave - 1
Players leaving - 4

Surely the pressure will also be in Andrea Berta Bassett if we fail on transfers? He is meant to be one of the best in business.
Mind you, we have the capability to ruin good players, maybe we will do the same with a Director of Football <_<

[Letters]

Last season can best be split into two, the first half of the season where we scored 38 goals in 20 games, and the second half where we scored 53 in 18.
Is 53 a typo?

[Letters]

Players leaving - 4[/B]
If you really want to get your doom juices ( :sick: ) going, I saw something this morning about 20 players leaving.
I suspect that includes a load of academy players who didn't make the grade.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Is 53 a typo?

No it’s a miscount

It should be 37 in the first 20 games, and 54 in the last 18

[Letters]

No it’s a miscount

It should be 37 in the first 20 games, and 54 in the last 18

Oh hang on. By last season do you mean 23/24? Cos the season is finished so I thought you were taking about the one just gone.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Oh hang on. By last season do you mean 23/24? Cos the season is finished so I thought you were taking about the one just gone.

Yes. I mean 23/24 season. This season has only just ended, so it feels not quite right to call it last season yet

The season just gone sounds more apposite

[HCZ_Reborn]

This season just gone, unlike the previous two there is far less of a divide in terms of one good half, one bad half. It was all pretty unspectacular

38 goals in 19 first half - 11 wins 6 draws 2 defeats

31 goals in 19 second half - 9 wins, 8 draws, 2 defeats


The reason why there were fewer goals in the second half of the season should be obvious

[Marc Overmars]

I agree that creating chances is a problem. We have too many players who are inclined to recycle the ball until an obvious pass appears and in most instances the obvious pass simply doesn’t appear because we are so indecisive playing a final ball. You need razor sharp decision making to beat low blocks and it’s just something we’ve struggled immensely with. Even during moments of transition we overplay and it just ends up going out wide for a hopeful cross into the box.

The final third is all about decision making and talent. Tactics aren’t going to put the ball in the back of the net.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I agree that creating chances is a problem. We have too many players who are inclined to recycle the ball until an obvious pass appears and in most instances the obvious pass simply doesn’t appear because we are so indecisive playing a final ball. You need razor sharp decision making to beat low blocks and it’s just something we’ve struggled immensely with. Even during moments of transition we overplay and it just ends up going out wide for a hopeful cross into the box.

The final third is all about decision making and talent. Tactics aren’t going to put the ball in the back of the net.

Exactly that

[KSE Comedy Club]

If you really want to get your doom juices ( :sick: ) going, I saw something this morning about 20 players leaving.
I suspect that includes a load of academy players who didn't make the grade.

Yes I saw that too, but when I looked at the list there were only 4 that we would consider 1st team players.

Interesting that Nathan Butler-Oyedeji is on the list. He was on the subs bench for few games at the end of the season I thought?

[KSE Comedy Club]

But that tells you nothing about the type of chances created

Our average XG this season was 1.97

Compare that to Liverpool who were at 2.45

There’s no doubt we need a goalscorer to put away chances, but our XG is not massively in excess of the goals scored. I would imagine last season, that we outperformed our XG

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you that we could do with improving our creative outlet, I just don't believe it's quite as high on the priority list than goalscorer, game plan, tactics, which have all negatively influenced us this season rather than being all positive.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I agree that creating chances is a problem. We have too many players who are inclined to recycle the ball until an obvious pass appears and in most instances the obvious pass simply doesn’t appear because we are so indecisive playing a final ball. You need razor sharp decision making to beat low blocks and it’s just something we’ve struggled immensely with. Even during moments of transition we overplay and it just ends up going out wide for a hopeful cross into the box.

The final third is all about decision making and talent. Tactics aren’t going to put the ball in the back of the net.

Of course tactics will influence the ball going in the back of the net.

If your tactic is to play quick, counter attacking football your chances of scoring a goal will increase. If it's to pass the ball around endlessly, moving up the pitch in 1 foot increments, giving the opposing team 5 mins to get all 11 men back behind the ball - that will cut your chances of putting the ball in the back of the net.

[KSE Comedy Club]

This season just gone, unlike the previous two there is far less of a divide in terms of one good half, one bad half. It was all pretty unspectacular

38 goals in 19 first half - 11 wins 6 draws 2 defeats

31 goals in 19 second half - 9 wins, 8 draws, 2 defeats


The reason why there were fewer goals in the second half of the season should be obvious

Martinelli put 76 crosses into the box by 35 odd games (could be more now) this season.

36 were converted into shots.

That's 40 'chances' created that no one got on the end of.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you that we could do with improving our creative outlet, I just don't believe it's quite as high on the priority list than goalscorer, game plan, tactics, which have all negatively influenced us this season rather than being all positive.

As MO said I don’t think there’s a magic tactic that makes us more creative. The pendulum like passing comes down to not having players who are quick enough in their decision making or confident enough to make the quick offensive pass. This comes down to this insistence on playing players in the number 8 role who aren’t naturally creative.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Martinelli put 76 crosses into the box by 35 odd games (could be more now) this season.

36 were converted into shots.

That's 40 'chances' created that no one got on the end of.

You’re arguing that every cross that comes into the box represents a chance. That’s pretty thin stuff

To be honest that we create chances with almost half of the crosses that come in is actually not bad, that’s a testament to the height of the team I imagine. But lumping a cross into the box isn’t a chance, it’s an opportunity to create a chance

[KSE Comedy Club]

You’re arguing that every cross that comes into the box represents a chance. That’s pretty thin stuff

To be honest that we create chances with almost half of the crosses that come in is actually not bad, that’s a testament to the height of the team I imagine. But lumping a cross into the box isn’t a chance, it’s an opportunity to create a chance

It is a chance and can be labelled as such.

Historically that is exactly what crosses into the box have been chalked up as. You put a decent cross in and most of the time an attacking player just has to header it or kick it into the back of the net.
How many times have we heard commentators, etc say "they are creating lots of chances but just can't find the back of the net" ?

There's no need to reinvent the wheel here.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Against PSG we created:

1st leg: 3 chances
2nd leg: 4 chances

Scored: 1 goal

7 chances created (based on a situation whereby a player is reasonably expected to score) and 1 goal in return.
That's just one example.

No one is expected to get every chance, but Arsenal and a lack of creativity are not usually two things I would put in the same sentence.

Again I agree that we should add some depth in our creativity - but we are not lacking in creating chances.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It is a chance and can be labelled as such.

Historically that is exactly what crosses into the box have been chalked up as. You put a decent cross in and most of the time an attacking player just has to header it or kick it into the back of the net.
How many times have we heard commentators, etc say "they are creating lots of chances but just can't find the back of the net" ?

There's no need to reinvent the wheel here.

As I’ve said that our players have managed to get to almost half of the crosses that come in is reasonably impressive, given a lot of crosses are easily cut out by defenders.

As you seem to admit yourself the ability to do something with a cross, often depends on the quality of the cross itself

And it depends on how good a side is at dealing with crosses. Like with set pieces, sides set up to deal with us more aggressively in these situations

We are talking about an inability to make space, suck in defenders etc which requires an additional creative midfielder in the team not relying on Odegaard to find his form

[HCZ_Reborn]

Against PSG we created:

1st leg: 3 chances
2nd leg: 4 chances

Scored: 1 goal

7 chances created (based on a situation whereby a player is reasonably expected to score) and 1 goal in return.
That's just one example.

No one is expected to get every chance, but Arsenal and a lack of creativity are not usually two things I would put in the same sentence.

Again I agree that we should add some depth in our creativity - but we are not lacking in creating chances.


Devoid of any context, the chances especially in the second leg came in one or two attacking phases of play…the keeper made a save and then a save on the rebound. Definitely can argue we might have done better, but we weren’t able to sustain that pressure, we weren’t opening them up at will.

Wasteful is more how I’d describe PSG against Liverpool at home, where they created chance after chance after chance throughout the 90 minutes….we created a flurry of chances in one small period.

Plus as I’ve said our XG throughout the league season was less than 2.

The chances we create are half chances, blocked shots and shots from outside the box that are often likely to go wide statistically speaking. We aren’t opening up teams at will and then missing sitters constantly


I don’t even know why you’re arguing frankly, it’s not a binary anyhow. We clearly need a striker id argue two, but we clearly also need an extra creative player in midfield

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://youtu.be/64pJCG9C3kM

Someone I think posted this a while back. Which basically stated that we didn’t get much wrong tactically, that a) PSG had more efficient goalscorers who could score from low XG chances but that signing a striker was only half the problem for us as there wasn’t consistent chance creation for us

[KSE Comedy Club]

Devoid of any context, the chances especially in the second leg came in one or two attacking phases of play…the keeper made a save and then a save on the rebound. Definitely can argue we might have done better, but we weren’t able to sustain that pressure, we weren’t opening them up at will.

Wasteful is more how I’d describe PSG against Liverpool at home, where they created chance after chance after chance throughout the 90 minutes….we created a flurry of chances in one small period.

Plus as I’ve said our XG throughout the league season was less than 2.

The chances we create are half chances, blocked shots and shots from outside the box that are often likely to go wide statistically speaking. We aren’t opening up teams at will and then missing sitters constantly


I don’t even know why you’re arguing frankly, it’s not a binary anyhow. We clearly need a striker id argue two, but we clearly also need an extra creative player in midfield

I'm not arguing, it's just a discussion :shrug:

I said I agree with you on all those things, but I just don't agree that we lack creativity as a main problem.

[KSE Comedy Club]

https://youtu.be/64pJCG9C3kM

Someone I think posted this a while back. Which basically stated that we didn’t get much wrong tactically, that a) PSG had more efficient goalscorers who could score from low XG chances but that signing a striker was only half the problem for us as there wasn’t consistent chance creation for us

7 chances was more than enough to win both legs had they been converted though.

You shouldn't need a million chances per game to score enough goals.

[HCZ_Reborn]

7 chances was more than enough to win both legs had they been converted though.

You shouldn't need a million chances per game to score enough goals.

A) As I said to begin with, if the chances are coming in one attacking phase of play, for example the goalkeeper saves and the ball is still in play. The problem in Paris wasn’t not taking the opportunities in one attacking move because you had Donnarumma make two or three ridiculous saves. It was the failure to consistently create chances after that couple of minute spell.

B) Using the PSG game as a paradigm case won’t help you, as I’ve said to you our XG doesn’t vastly exceed the goals scored this season. If our XG in the league completely tallied with goals scored we’d have got 72 goals (three more than we actually did).

So to suggest there isn’t a problem with chance creation is to be honest absurd. There’s a problem with putting the ball in the net too, but we equally are not creating enough good chances for a striker to put away

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Just seen the news that Chelsea is pulling out of their obligation to buy Sancho for £25m and willing to pay the £5m penalty.

I want to believe the penalty clause swings both ways and hope we have that in place for Tavares as letting Lazio get him for sub £10m seems ridiculous to me (this is a defender who achieved as many assists as Odegaard did this season).

The worst sale of the summer has been completed.

You can update your list KSE.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ckgnp4dn92qo

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm not arguing, it's just a discussion :shrug:

I said I agree with you on all those things, but I just don't agree that we lack creativity as a main problem.

And I think in the most profound way possible that you’re mistaken. The striker issue and the creative issue are of equal importance. The XG in the PSG tie as I’ve stated is high because we had two or three chances to score in a very short period of time that the goalkeeper made world class saves to deny us, we weren’t consistently making chances and then screwing them side wide. Might a world class striker have put those away, yes possibly only problem is there are only a handful of world class strikers about currently…Haaland, Mbappe and a few others

We do need a striker definitely, but we also need an additional creative presence in the team. Because if you have the ability to open up teams consistently (which you surely must admit we do not have), it makes putting the ball away that much easier all round.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The worst sale of the summer has been completed.

You can update your list KSE.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ckgnp4dn92qo

Transfer fees don’t mean a great deal, the important thing was getting him off the wage bill. Transfer fees into the club and out of the club are amortised. The club cares less about things like that than the wage burden.

So comparing it to Man United, they have a 25 million sum but they have a player that will a) be hard to sell on elsewhere because if Chelsea couldn’t agree personal terms with the guy what chance anyone else and b) the burden on their wage bill will have no small impact on their ability to buy.

Will they be able to go back in for Mbeumo and pay Brentford the money they want?

[KSE Comedy Club]

The worst sale of the summer has been completed.

You can update your list KSE.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/ckgnp4dn92qo

As requested :)

Day 5 of the transfer window:

No. of signings - 0
Players likely to leave - 1
Players leaving - 5

[KSE Comedy Club]

A) As I said to begin with, if the chances are coming in one attacking phase of play, for example the goalkeeper saves and the ball is still in play. The problem in Paris wasn’t not taking the opportunities in one attacking move because you had Donnarumma make two or three ridiculous saves. It was the failure to consistently create chances after that couple of minute spell.

B) Using the PSG game as a paradigm case won’t help you, as I’ve said to you our XG doesn’t vastly exceed the goals scored this season. If our XG in the league completely tallied with goals scored we’d have got 72 goals (three more than we actually did).

So to suggest there isn’t a problem with chance creation is to be honest absurd. There’s a problem with putting the ball in the net too, but we equally are not creating enough good chances for a striker to put away

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah - You are right and I am wrong - well done!

You win the medal :good:

I won't bother talking about this subject again.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah - You are right and I am wrong - well done!

You win the medal :good:

I won't bother talking about this subject again.

So discussion only works for you, if people agree with what you say?

I said I think you’re mistaken and I’ve demonstrated why I think that.

I observed that you’re doing a lot of doom posting about the fact that it’s almost one week into June and we haven’t signed anyone yet, apparently that’s closing down discussion.

I do think I’m right and you’re wrong on the creative issue. Presumably you think the same, I’ll be honest I think it’s so self evident that I don’t really even see the need to argue about it….but again it’s not an injunction to prevent you from doing so

If you can’t take debate, possible you shouldn’t get involved in one no?. What that idiot Mac doesn’t understand (and seemingly you don’t either) is that if I think I’m right I’m going to go in hard that’s how I am. If I don’t think I’m right, I’m not going to make the effort

[KSE Comedy Club]

So discussion only works for you, if people agree with what you say?

I said I think you’re mistaken and I’ve demonstrated why I think that.

I observed that you’re doing a lot of doom posting about the fact that it’s almost one week into June and we haven’t signed anyone yet, apparently that’s closing down discussion.

I do think I’m right and you’re wrong on the creative issue. Presumably you think the same, I’ll be honest I think it’s so self evident that I don’t really even see the need to argue about it….but again it’s not an injunction to prevent you from doing so

If you can’t take debate, possible you shouldn’t get involved in one no?. What that idiot Mac doesn’t understand (and seemingly you don’t either) is that if I think I’m right I’m going to go in hard that’s how I am. If I don’t think I’m right, I’m not going to make the effort

Sorry, I'm just a bit frustrated at the moment.

Just been told my company are closing us down and moving production to Italy and France - so I am out of a job come years end.

Ignore me, I'm not usually so dismissive on a discussion and it was quite rude.
I will be back to my normal self soon I'm sure :)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Sorry, I'm just a bit frustrated at the moment.

Just been told my company are closing us down and moving production to Italy and France - so I am out of a job come years end.

Ignore me, I'm not usually so dismissive on a discussion and it was quite rude.
I will be back to my normal self soon I'm sure :)

Sorry to hear mate.

Though it seems this type of news is becoming common place now, happened to a few others on this board already.

I'd add that you look at the bright side of life and strongly encourage you not to include Arsenal as a part of it as you'd likely be setting yourself up for more disappointment, at least in the short term.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sorry, I'm just a bit frustrated at the moment.

Just been told my company are closing us down and moving production to Italy and France - so I am out of a job come years end.

Ignore me, I'm not usually so dismissive on a discussion and it was quite rude.
I will be back to my normal self soon I'm sure :)

Oh bloody hell, that’s terrible. The only positive is that they’ve at least given you more notice than some other places might.

With any luck, you might actually find something else out there that’s better (and better paid) than what you’re doing now. The uncertainty never helps though

If there’s a lot of people from the company in same boat, might be good to set up a what’s app group. Bit of support, push to get what you can from the company in terms of redundancy etc

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Apparently Chelsea have been offered Kudus, really surprised at the news.

I'd love him here, especially if Trossard leaves, but it also seems like Morgan Rodgers is being considered, who would definitely cost more but would be my preference.

BTW a big loud NO to Rodriygo (if anyone is listening), we need to stop luxury buys and get players who are mentally serious and focused on their game.....like Rice who will end up being player of the season mainly cause of his hard work this season. Experienced buys should be achievers.

[Mac76]

Sorry, I'm just a bit frustrated at the moment.

Just been told my company are closing us down and moving production to Italy and France - so I am out of a job come years end.

Ignore me, I'm not usually so dismissive on a discussion and it was quite rude.
I will be back to my normal self soon I'm sure :)

don't apologise, you were doing well :lol:

Sorry to hear about your company though just look at it as a positive, I've never been made redundant, but have had to move on a couple of times because of a bad working environment (and no not caused by me :lol:), including last year - I've always found a better situation and never regretted it

[Marc Overmars]

Rogers would be a real eye catcher of a signing. Not quite sure we’d pay the extortionate amount Villa would demand but it’s definitely a signing we would all get behind.

Sadly I think he’s more likely to be signed by Chelsea than us, if Villa let him go.

[Mac76]

:gp:

if a little obvious ;)

[Mac76]

Why is the number for your players likely to leave so low?

Tierney-contract ended
Jorginho- contract ended
Partey- contact ended
Trossard- a year left, likely to be sold
Zinchenko- a year left, likely to be sold
MLS- a year left, apparently not agreeable to terms offered
Tomiyassu- a year left, but an option for a year's extension

So clearly it looks like the 2nd successive summer we'll be getting leaner rather than growing.

I'd be amazed if MLS left

I hope we keep Trossard, why get rid of a good attacking player when we need greater strength in depth going forward

and Zin has to go, no ifs or buts

[HCZ_Reborn]

Konstantinos Karetsas

Never heard of him. Only 17, though made two appearances at international level for Greece

[Marc Overmars]

Linked with Rodrygo. Can see this happening if I had to put some money on a big signing.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Gabriel new contract incoming. That's good.

[Marc Overmars]

Good news that. Was significantly better than Saliba this year.

[dazthegooner]

Gabriel new contract incoming. That's good.

Signed a new four year deal

[KSE Comedy Club]

Sorry to hear mate.

Though it seems this type of news is becoming common place now, happened to a few others on this board already.

I'd add that you look at the bright side of life and strongly encourage you not to include Arsenal as a part of it as you'd likely be setting yourself up for more disappointment, at least in the short term.

Thanks mate

[KSE Comedy Club]

Oh bloody hell, that’s terrible. The only positive is that they’ve at least given you more notice than some other places might.

With any luck, you might actually find something else out there that’s better (and better paid) than what you’re doing now. The uncertainty never helps though

If there’s a lot of people from the company in same boat, might be good to set up a what’s app group. Bit of support, push to get what you can from the company in terms of redundancy etc

Thank you for the understanding mate :good:

[KSE Comedy Club]

don't apologise, you were doing well :lol:

Sorry to hear about your company though just look at it as a positive, I've never been made redundant, but have had to move on a couple of times because of a bad working environment (and no not caused by me :lol:), including last year - I've always found a better situation and never regretted it

:lol:

It's the Second time for me in about 20 years. Just ploughed 11 years into this this role and was building a career.

It's just fucking gutting tbh.

Doesn't help that my missus works for the same company so we are both out of work at the same time.
Not great when the mortgage is due for renewal in December :(

[Chippy]

:lol:

It's the Second time for me in about 20 years. Just ploughed 11 years into this this role and was building a career.

It's just fucking gutting tbh.

Doesn't help that my missus works for the same company so we are both out of work at the same time.
Not great when the mortgage is due for renewal in December :(

That is a real shame for both of you:(
I really hope you find something else soon and that you can put to use your 11 years of experience :good:

[Mac76]

:lol:

It's the Second time for me in about 20 years. Just ploughed 11 years into this this role and was building a career.

It's just fucking gutting tbh.

Doesn't help that my missus works for the same company so we are both out of work at the same time.
Not great when the mortgage is due for renewal in December :(

wow, that really is rough, still you should hopefully get decent redundancy payment after that length of time?

[KSE Comedy Club]

wow, that really is rough, still you should hopefully get decent redundancy payment after that length of time?

They are going with Government statutory - which is shit.

Missus has done 25 years but she'll be capped at 20 and our weekly salary is above the statutory as well so that's capped too.

They are literally shafting us, we don't have a union or anything so we are on our own.
I would understand it if we were a private company and the business was struggling - but we are talking about a global corporation here, getting away with the bare minimum

Arseholes

[Mac76]

They are going with Government statutory - which is shit.

Missus has done 25 years but she'll be capped at 20 and our weekly salary is above the statutory as well so that's capped too.

They are literally shafting us, we don't have a union or anything so we are on our own.
I would understand it if we were a private company and the business was struggling - but we are talking about a global corporation here, getting away with the bare minimum

Arseholes

well I guess that's how they became a global corporation, still bloody mean though, I feel for you man

[HCZ_Reborn]

Apparently Chelsea have been offered Kudus, really surprised at the news.

I'd love him here, especially if Trossard leaves, but it also seems like Morgan Rodgers is being considered, who would definitely cost more but would be my preference.

BTW a big loud NO to Rodriygo (if anyone is listening), we need to stop luxury buys and get players who are mentally serious and focused on their game.....like Rice who will end up being player of the season mainly cause of his hard work this season. Experienced buys should be achievers.

I don’t know enough about Rodriygo to form a definitive view, but my preference is definitely Rodgers also

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Rodrygo on the left absolutely would deliver quality - what does luxury signing even mean?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Rodrygo on the left absolutely would deliver quality - what does luxury signing even mean?

If I had to guess, it’s someone who is a bit of a primadonna who brings a bit of star quality but a bit like Ozil not prepared to roll his sleeves up.

But a) that would be a guess as to what his opinion is and b) I don’t myself have a strong opinion on Rodryigo

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Interesting how that will marry up with those that lament we ask Saka to do so much defensive work.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

If I had to guess, it’s someone who is a bit of a primadonna who brings a bit of star quality but a bit like Ozil not prepared to roll his sleeves up.

But a) that would be a guess as to what his opinion is and b) I don’t myself have a strong opinion on Rodryigo

Yup, you got it right the first time, weighing "talent" over application....I had hoped those days were gone .

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yup, you got it right the first time, weighing "talent" over application....I had hoped those days were gone .

I don’t know, it feels to me that we’ve got plenty of hard workers in the team but that we could do with some talent

Plus as I’ve said I don’t know enough about Rodryigo to say that he’s not hard working. But from what I’m reading it doesn’t sound like your characterisation of him is that accurate as it sounds like he’s far more likely to track back, play out of position to facilitate others etc

I’d prefer Watkins because he marries physical strength with technical ability. And I think Villa are in a position where they need to sell. But I certainly couldn’t say, I would be unhappy with Rodryigo as an alternative

[Mac76]

Interesting how that will marry up with those that lament we ask Saka to do so much defensive work.

that's me then, we do ask him to do too much defensive work

Look at Salah, he apparently said to Slot - "I'll get you lots of goals and assists but the deal is I don't track back"

I'd say that worked pretty well

[HCZ_Reborn]

The interesting thing about Rodryigo is that he primarily plays on the right, so I don’t know whether the plan would be to move him left (he is right footed which could suit that) or if not what that would mean either for Nwaneri or whether we’d keep Trossard or not

[Marc Overmars]

Rodryigo is the unassuming character that’s allowed the galactico’s around him to take centre stage. He’s definitely a player of quality though and I would suggest it’s the type of competition that Martinelli needs too.

I like what Trossard has delivered for us but he’s never really going to be a certified stater. Only reason he played so much this year was because of the injury situation. It would be tough to see him go but if we can get a decent offer for him I would move him on.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ornstein has us for Kepa.

Why must we buy/loan Chelsea players every window?

[Marc Overmars]

Fine with that. Cheap and reasonably good keeper for back up.

Almost forgot that Chelsea paid 70m for him. :haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ornstein has us for Kepa.

Why must we buy/loan Chelsea players every window?

My main issue with buying Chelsea players is potential wages. But let’s be fair, that club has so many players on its books it’s like a boot sale. Not terrible to have experienced backup

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I don't think he's particularly good, will play in the cups and probably cost us.

[Mac76]

I don't think he's particularly good, will play in the cups and probably cost us.

He's the right level for what we need I think, he was actually quite good for Bournemouth

[WMUG]

Ornstein has us for Kepa.

Why must we buy/loan Chelsea players every window?

The clubs do seem to have a good off pitch relationship when it comes to transfers and it kinda makes sense.

They're the two most successful teams in London and can offer reasonably equivalent wages and on pitch success (obviously this varies from year to year) without the player having to uproot his life to move across the country.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah and we’re the mugs who are always happy to do them a favour and take their scraps.

[Mac76]

Kepa's the best we're likely to get as a backup, I'm fine with it, just as I was fine with Jorginho whem we bought him, Willian and Cech were bad buys, Jorg wasn't and nor will Kepa be for that price

[Mac76]

Much better this than £30m on Garcia

[HCZ_Reborn]

Much better this than £30m on Garcia

Have to say I agree. I’m not expecting Kepa to dislodge Raya from no1 spot (though he does have a height advantage over him) but helps to have someone to keep him on his toes I guess.

[Mac76]

Zubimendi's making us look like fools, if he doesn't sign we'd better have a good backup option ready

Meanwhile Osimhen's not keen on Saudi apparently, 26 and a proven goalscorer

If either Gyokeres or Osimhen come to the PL and do significantly better than Sesko, Arteta will have a lot of explaining to do

[HCZ_Reborn]

Osimhen who was sent to Galatasaray on loan by Napoli?

Something not quite right there is there? I think even Chelsea decided to look elsewhere

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://x.com/afcstuff/status/1931687847540531292?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

If this is true I will complain

No defenders. What is wrong with Arteta ? It’s a sick addiction. We don’t need a defender

[Chippy]

Zubimendi's making us look like fools, if he doesn't sign we'd better have a good backup option ready

Meanwhile Osimhen's not keen on Saudi apparently, 26 and a proven goalscorer

If either Gyokeres or Osimhen come to the PL and do significantly better than Sesko, Arteta will have a lot of explaining to do

Dont forget that footballers have no loyalty to anyone. They just want the cash.

And, is it him that is messing around, or is it our inabilty to tie up a deal.

This is going to be a very painful window.

[HCZ_Reborn]

What I have heard is a) Zubimendi won’t be announced until July and b) Berta likes to work on several transfers at once

How true either of these are I don’t know, but frankly I’m more disturbed a) by the lack of links to a creative central midfielder and b) that we are being linked with defenders, a line has to be drawn there….no more defenders

[dazthegooner]

Well according to the Madrid press (yep I know) they're going after Zubimendi and Sesko and anyone footballer will a pulse (not sure whet the overdraft they have with the Bank Of Madrid is but it must be huge)

[Mac76]

The problem is Zubimendi is said to prefer to want to stay in Spain (who can blame him tbh) so if Madrid are up for it, it's a problem

[KSE Comedy Club]

Apparently Liepzig want over 80m euros for Sesko and are not budging on that.

That is too much for 'potential'

The more this goes on the less I like the sound of it.

[dazthegooner]

We'll probably end up with Jamie Vardy in a last minute deal <_<

[HCZ_Reborn]

Apparently Liepzig want over 80m euros for Sesko and are not budging on that.

That is too much for 'potential'

The more this goes on the less I like the sound of it.

80 million euros is about 67 million (which is the price I’ve heard stated for some considerable time)

[Marc Overmars]

I don’t think you’ll find a striker with any reasonably good profile for much less than that anyway. They are a prime commodity.

[KSE Comedy Club]

80 million euros is about 67 million (which is the price I’ve heard stated for some considerable time)

And that's fine, but if it starts going higher then it does start to become questionable.

[Mac76]

Gyokeres is still a little 'cheaper' I think, TransferMkt says 75m euros

[HCZ_Reborn]

Gyokeres is still a little 'cheaper' I think, TransferMkt says 75m euros

Yes the “gentleman’s agreement” understanding he has with Sporting, as opposed to his minimum release fee of 100 million euros

Looks like United have made an official approach, my feeling on that (which I know isn’t the popular one on here) is that they are welcome to him

I could be wrong and he could be a revelation in the premier league. But given his goal output (in the Portuguese league) there doesn’t seem to be many takers

[KSE Comedy Club]

Chelsea seemingly trying to hijack Sesko deal now.

Good thing we are taking our time with our business :rolleyes:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Chelsea seemingly trying to hijack Sesko deal now.

Good thing we are taking our time with our business :rolleyes:

So you’re both worried that we are paying too much and worried that we aren’t doing things more quickly (presumably to negotiate a price that is reasonable) because of another club swooping in?.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Yes the “gentleman’s agreement” understanding he has with Sporting, as opposed to his minimum release fee of 100 million euros

Looks like United have made an official approach, my feeling on that (which I know isn’t the popular one on here) is that they are welcome to him

I could be wrong and he could be a revelation in the premier league. But given his goal output (in the Portuguese league) there doesn’t seem to be many takers

I do find it quite interesting how so many big clubs need (or needed last summer) a striker seems to have passed on him. The fee, comparatively, isn't outrageous (that in itself is insane), you'd think his wage demands wouldn't be mental, and yet there doesn't seem to be much appetite so much so that United of all cluster fucks are most heavily linked.

On the other hand, I know fuck all about football. He'll probably be brilliant.

[Mac76]

Yes the “gentleman’s agreement” understanding he has with Sporting, as opposed to his minimum release fee of 100 million euros

Looks like United have made an official approach, my feeling on that (which I know isn’t the popular one on here) is that they are welcome to him

I could be wrong and he could be a revelation in the premier league. But given his goal output (in the Portuguese league) there doesn’t seem to be many takers

you keep ignoring that he got 6 goals in 8 CL games, as well as the 54 goals in 52 games for in the Portuguese league.

He clearly has an Ian Wright-type killer instinct for goal, given his suppliers would be Odegaard, Rice, Martinelli, White, Saka, etc he's going to get plenty of opportunity I'd suggest - even if he got half that tally we would call it a good buy right?

[HCZ_Reborn]

you keep ignoring that he got 6 goals in 8 CL games, as well as the 54 goals in 52 games for in the Portuguese league.

He clearly has an Ian Wright-type killer instinct for goal, given his suppliers would be Odegaard, Rice, Martinelli, White, Saka, etc he's going to get plenty of opportunity I'd suggest - even if he got half that tally we would call it a good buy right?

And of these six goals three were in one game (and two of those were penalties)

As I said he could prove me wrong, but acting like it’s a sure thing he’d make it in the premier league….especially when so many other Portugal based strikers have been utter flops

Also our problem this season hasn’t just been a lack of goal scorer it’s been a lack of consistently creating good goal scoring opportunities (but that’s a different discussion entirely)

I’m not convinced by Gyokeres…as I’ve said a lot of his goals come from having more space than he’d get in the league and if he goes to Man United, it will be the case that a lot of other big clubs will have shown similar reservations.

[Mac76]

So you mark him down for getting a CL hat trick, the guy can't win can he :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

So you mark him down for getting a CL hat trick, the guy can't win can he :lol:

I’m not marking him down I’m putting things in perspective

That hat-trick included two penalties as I’ve said

You all are claiming that he’s a super star striker that we must be mad to pass up on, all I’m saying is the vast volume of his goals come in a deeply inferior league and it also seems that a lot of top clubs are passing on him.


Sesko got four goals in the champions league league stage, and in terms of non penalty goals he got one fewer than Gyokeres

My preference for Sesko is a) he’s played at a higher level than Gyokeres b) I genuinely prefer us to get in younger players that can be moulded and have a big scope for improvement

If Gyokeres had played in Germany and got even half the goals he managed in Portugal, I’d be a lot more positive about him

The joke is you accuse me of being too certain in my opinion of things, where as I’m pushing back slightly on other people’s certainties. Could he make it in the premier league? I don’t know but yes it’s certainly possible, but I’m personally more confident of Seako’s ability to make it here

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Played at a higher level? You just compared what they did in the Champions League, am I missing something.

Also if you mean because Sesko plays in the Bundesliga given so few forwards have performed hugely well coming from Germany, unless they're the ones signed by Man City so I'm not sure where you get the confidence from.

But like I said before, Sesko means more Havertz starting in my mind.

As for players that can be moulded that's exactly what I don't want - don't want to see idenitkit players playing in the same way, doing the same things.

That's what leads to our predictability.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Played at a higher level? You just compared what they did in the Champions League, am I missing something.

Also if you mean because Sesko plays in the Bundesliga given so few forwards have performed hugely well coming from Germany, unless they're the ones signed by Man City so I'm not sure where you get the confidence from.

But like I said before, Sesko means more Havertz starting in my mind.

As for players that can be moulded that's exactly what I don't want - don't want to see idenitkit players playing in the same way, doing the same things.

That's what leads to our predictability.


The majority of football is domestic, the German Bundesliga represents a far higher level than Portugal, and there’s a lot more in terms of success stories from that league to the premier league.

Confidence is relative…Ive never said it’s a sure thing that Sesko will be better than Gyokeres. However I’ve seen enough of him to see vast potential. Plus I don’t get why people are so confident Gyokeres will be a success. My preference as I’ve stated was to buy two strikers, one for the here and now and one like Sesko. I don’t like signing players over the age of 25 full stop (unless it’s a cheaper signing like Jorginho) but if we were to do that, I’d much rather go for someone like Lautaro Martinez

End of the day, nothing you or I say will make a difference to the way we play. I think we need to buy another creative midfielder but it’s not going to happen, because that will facilitate creating more space against obdurate opponents especially at home.

I think when the time comes for Arteta to make way, I’d much rather have a young striker with bags of potential in the team than someone who could well have flopped and will become impossible to get off our books. If we really want a sure thing, arguably neither Sesko or Gyokeres are the answer.

[Mac76]

As for players that can be moulded that's exactly what I don't want - don't want to see idenitkit players playing in the same way, doing the same things.

That's what leads to our predictability.

That's what bothers me too - if Sesko is going to be Artetered then he'll be no use to us

[Globalgunner]

Osimhen who was sent to Galatasaray on loan by Napoli?

Something not quite right there is there? I think even Chelsea decided to look elsewhere

He had a year left on his contract and refused to sign an extension. Napoli sent him away out of spite. He was the star of that season with them. They refused all bids and had to let him leave on leave. I think he is now available on a free

[Marc Overmars]

I think the problem with Osimhen is greed and the perception that he is an unsavoury character.

[Mac76]

He had a year left on his contract and refused to sign an extension. Napoli sent him away out of spite. He was the star of that season with them. They refused all bids and had to let him leave on leave. I think he is now available on a free

we should go for who we can get, if Osimhen, for whatever reason, is available right now then buy* - we've enough funds to get a Sesko or Gyokeres or even a Watkins as well if we want

*(EDIT - actually if what MO says is true then maybe not... :lol:)

what we don't need is Sane, I'm willing to bet he's getting past his peak

In general I'm not sure LW is such a priority, for me Leo and Martinelli are fine, they just need someone in the middle more reliable than Havertz

[HCZ_Reborn]

That's what bothers me too - if Sesko is going to be Artetered then he'll be no use to us

We say that, but whatever we say about Havertz (he was never meant to be a striker, let alone our only striker) he’s clearly a better player than he was at Chelsea, both in terms of goal output and overall play.

I think he doesn’t get the best out of Martinelli, because Martinelli is more geared for counter attacking football. There is a difference between playing more on the counter (which we should) and being a counter attacking team and I don’t think it’s possible for us to become the latter because there are simply too many teams that aren’t going to risk coming onto us.

[HCZ_Reborn]

we should go for who we can get, if Osimhen, for whatever reason, is available right now then buy - we've enough funds to get a Sesko or Gyokeres or even a Watkins as well if we want

what we don't need is Sane, I'm willing to bet he's getting past his peak

In general I'm not sure LW is such a priority, for me Leo and Martinelli are fine, they just need someone in the middle more reliable than Havertz

I think one of the reasons we are targeting that area is the expectation that Trossard is going. He’s rejected contract extension offers which suggests he sees his future elsewhere. I don’t know how long his contract is…I’d presume four years but who knows

[Mac76]

We say that, but whatever we say about Havertz (he was never meant to be a striker, let alone our only striker) he’s clearly a better player than he was at Chelsea, both in terms of goal output and overall play.

I think he doesn’t get the best out of Martinelli, because Martinelli is more geared for counter attacking football. There is a difference between playing more on the counter (which we should) and being a counter attacking team and I don’t think it’s possible for us to become the latter because there are simply too many teams that aren’t going to risk coming onto us.

Arteta bought Havertz to play in MF where he's not very good, it was an accident (a la Merino) that he turned out to be good upfront.

So technically it was a bad buy to get someone for £65m who's not very good in the position you bought them for.

As for the bit in bold, that's all about learning to step back, cede control for a bit then win it back and go forward quickly - trouble is that's not Arteta's way, he prefers the horseshoe of death

[McNamara That Ghost...]

The majority of football is domestic, the German Bundesliga represents a far higher level than Portugal, and there’s a lot more in terms of success stories from that league to the premier league.

Confidence is relative…Ive never said it’s a sure thing that Sesko will be better than Gyokeres. However I’ve seen enough of him to see vast potential. Plus I don’t get why people are so confident Gyokeres will be a success. My preference as I’ve stated was to buy two strikers, one for the here and now and one like Sesko. I don’t like signing players over the age of 25 full stop (unless it’s a cheaper signing like Jorginho) but if we were to do that, I’d much rather go for someone like Lautaro Martinez

End of the day, nothing you or I say will make a difference to the way we play. I think we need to buy another creative midfielder but it’s not going to happen, because that will facilitate creating more space against obdurate opponents especially at home.

I think when the time comes for Arteta to make way, I’d much rather have a young striker with bags of potential in the team than someone who could well have flopped and will become impossible to get off our books. If we really want a sure thing, arguably neither Sesko or Gyokeres are the answer.

Well there's no sure thing in football, there's always elements of risk. It just depends on the level.

Our bar is so low in goalscoring wise (by individual players), he would only have to perform a tiny proportion of what he has done this season to outstrip anything anyone else has done.

Nothing we ever say on here will make a difference to what we actually do, so I don't really get why that distinction is being raised.

Name your striker from Germany success story that isn't Haaland. Of all the leagues to nail your colours to the mast on, Bundesliga is such a strange one to chosoe for this.

You keep talking about creativity but the amount of sitters we missed last season to me is incalculable. I want someone that is going to make the half chances pay, that's where you go to another level.

Playing style is a major issue for me and with that unlikely to happen by Arteta's own devices, I want players that are going to force that to happen.

[Mac76]

Well there's no sure thing in football, there's always elements of risk. It just depends on the level.

Our bar is so low in goalscoring wise (by individual players), he would only have to perform a tiny proportion of what he has done this season to outstrip anything anyone else has done.

Nothing we ever say on here will make a difference to what we actually do, so I don't really get why that distinction is being raised.

Name your striker from Germany success story that isn't Haaland. Of all the leagues to nail your colours to the mast on, Bundesliga is such a strange one to chosoe for this.

You keep talking about creativity but the amount of sitters we missed last season to me is incalculable. I want someone that is going to make the half chances pay, that's where you go to another level.

Playing style is a major issue for me and with that unlikely to happen by Arteta's own devices, I want players that are going to force that to happen.

All of the above, like I said elsewhere, Gyokeres only needs to be half as productive to be a really good buy, yes PL is a better league but correspondingly he will have better players around him, he can put away chances

[HCZ_Reborn]

Arteta bought Havertz to play in MF where he's not very good, it was an accident (a la Merino) that he turned out to be good upfront.

So technically it was a bad buy to get someone for £65m who's not very good in the position you bought them for.

As for the bit in bold, that's all about learning to step back, cede control for a bit then win it back and go forward quickly - trouble is that's not Arteta's way, he prefers the horseshoe of death


The inability to cede control which you refer to with Arteta isn’t about possession it’s about adversity to risk, I would say a demonstration of that was in the home game against Everton where we were making like for like substitutions against a team that had clearly come to get a draw. I’d say the majority of teams that come to the Emirates are quite risk adverse as well, the irony of our approach means that if we are chasing goals it means because we have less naturally creative and attacking players in the team we have to commit more players into attack, which does lead us open to conceding on the counter….so Arteta is causing the thing he wants to avoid.

Where as more creative players means we can attack more efficiently, and we have cover if we lose possession. Counter attacking football would work only against teams that come to us seeking to win. That’s why we beat Man City and Real Madrid the way we did. A better striker we’d have beaten PSG, but that’s not going to be the problem we have with most teams who come to play at the Emirates.
And when you look at Liverpool and the fact that one season aside (the 2020-2021 season) they have one of the consistently strongest home records in terms of both wins and avoiding defeat, it’s not about ceding control it’s about dominating on the ball

[HCZ_Reborn]

All of the above, like I said elsewhere, Gyokeres only needs to be half as productive to be a really good buy, yes PL is a better league but correspondingly he will have better players around him, he can put away chances

That’s where I disagree. It’s like we don’t remember tearing our hair out in frustration at Odegaard and the safety first football he was playing and the total lack of influence he was having on games.

When I look at the chances created that a top striker would have put away I think mainly of the PSG tie and even then that was as much about Donnarumma pulling off worldies

The one thing I saw a lot and definitely shows in stats is shots blocked. Because players are getting back into position to defend deep, and we are left with meandering sideways passing. I think the main reason we got frustrated with the likes of Havertz missing good chances is because they were often few and far between.

We talk about the need to change the way we play, well I suggest the best way to do that is to play two creative players in midfield unless we are playing the top teams (because our record against the top teams isn’t an issue).

The reason our build up play is slow is because we have too many players playing safety first passes, I don’t think that’s tactical that’s lack of confidence and not having the speed of thought to see a more positive pass. And that’s not a surprise when you’re playing two defensive midfielders week in, week out

[HCZ_Reborn]

By the way anyone who takes the above as we don’t need a striker. No not what I’m saying, it’s not a binary. We need both a striker and more creativity.

I’d buy Rodgers because he can play both left wing and attacking midfield

And his speed and aggression on the ball (especially dribbling) scared the shit out of Rice, Partey and Gabriel. That’s the kind of fear we should unleash on other premier league teams.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You keep talking about creativity but the amount of sitters we missed last season to me is incalculable.

I have far better recollection of games where we’d go twenty-thirty minutes without having a single shot on goal

I think too many people look at this issue in a binary way. We need a striker and in my view one who has consistent experience of facing better defenders and working with little to no space than in Portugal, I’d personally buy two strikers but I maintain that one of those strikers would not be Gyokeres.

But when we look at game after game of blocked shots, operating in congested penalty areas and being caught on the counter because we have to overcommit as a result….the suggestion that creativity is not an issue is astonishing to me


Also the last striker we bought from the Bundesliga was a certain Pierre Emerick Aubameyang

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Just seen the news that Chelsea is pulling out of their obligation to buy Sancho for £25m and willing to pay the £5m penalty.

I want to believe the penalty clause swings both ways and hope we have that in place for Tavares as letting Lazio get him for sub £10m seems ridiculous to me (this is a defender who achieved as many assists as Odegaard did this season).

When I bring up the now glaring fact, that we've got some of the most incompetent people handling our transfer business I usually get lectured on here by the usuals.

I doubt anyone can give me an example of a so called top European club that acts the way we do in the transfer market, especially when it comes to sales.

It's not been up to a week we sold Tavares for €6m and already news is that Lazio are inundated with bids as high as high as €30m and won't sell for anything less than €50m.

This is the 2nd time in less than a year, we are being shown off for being a soft touch, as lets not forget that we had a young striker (which MO says £60m is the going fee) we sold to a European minnow for just £4m, who later cashed in less the 6 months later, selling for £12m and now worth £30m conservatively.

In his case, forget the money and just think of the fact we had a young striker in the mould of Gyokeres when it came to a track record of delivering in a short time when it came various clubs and on the european stage. Just imagine if we'd delayed a pointless sale till January this year....just imagine the impact it could have had on our season!

I see KSE has gotten tired of keeping the dashboard going :lol:

[Mac76]

@21Gooner - I've heard that we agreed a 40% sell-on fee for Tavares so we will actually do ok out of any sell-on

who's the striker you're talking about?

[HCZ_Reborn]

When I bring up the now glaring fact, that we've got some of the most incompetent people handling our transfer business I usually get lectured on here by the usuals.

I doubt anyone can give me an example of a so called top European club that acts the way we do in the transfer market, especially when it comes to sales.

It's not been up to a week we sold Tavares for €6m and already news is that Lazio are inundated with bids as high as high as €30m and won't sell for anything less than €50m.

This is the 2nd time in less than a year, we are being shown off for being a soft touch, as lets not forget that we had a young striker (which MO says £60m is the going fee) we sold to a European minnow for just £4m, who later cashed in less the 6 months later, selling for £12m and now worth £30m conservatively.

In his case, forget the money and just think of the fact we had a young striker in the mould of Gyokeres when it came to a track record of delivering in a short time when it came various clubs and on the european stage. Just imagine if we'd delayed a pointless sale till January this year....just imagine the impact it could have had on our season!

I see KSE has gotten tired of keeping the dashboard going :lol:

Gosh how dare people have the temerity to disagree with you

A) I pointed out that the 25 million United received is compensation for the fact they are lumbered with a player they can’t get rid of (if he can’t agree personal terms with Chelsea, what chance anywhere else)


B) A lot of these loan deals come with pre-existing obligations to buy, so as Tavares agreed terms with Lazio we don’t get the compensation in the hope that the Saudis suddenly come sniffing

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

@21Gooner - I've heard that we agreed a 40% sell-on fee for Tavares so we will actually do ok out of any sell-on

who's the striker you're talking about?

I saw 35% earlier.

I don't get why we needed to give up the remaining % when it was obvious that he went out on loan and did far above expectations and logically we should have expected bids like this coming up this summer for a full Portuguese international.

Oh, and the striker is Mika Biereth, who again some of us warned against selling last summer (though I must say, in my wildest dreams I never imagined we wouldn't buy a striker at all last season).

[HCZ_Reborn]

You realise of course that this kind of thing happens with clubs all the time, it’s not something that’s limited to us

Look at Chelsea and De Bruyne because Mourinho didn’t rate him

Didn’t Man United have to pay over ten times the amount they’d originally sold Pogba to Juventus for

It’s a bit like the stock exchange, you weigh things up and make bets and sometimes you get it right, sometimes you don’t.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Gosh how dare people have the temerity to disagree with you

A) I pointed out that the 25 million United received is compensation for the fact they are lumbered with a player they can’t get rid of (if he can’t agree personal terms with Chelsea, what chance anywhere else)


B) A lot of these loan deals come with pre-existing obligations to buy, so as Tavares agreed terms with Lazio we don’t get the compensation in the hope that the Saudis suddenly come sniffing

I'll ignore the first line.

a) I'm failing to connect the dots here....did I argue about the transfer fee they agreed? All I pointed out was that Chelsea refused to be taken for mugs and probably used the failure to agree terms as a loophole to backout.

I then suggested there must be some sort of clause we could exploit to ensure we get out of having to sell at a price that made absolutely no sense....and hadn't made sense since the first few months of his loan spell (so we had adequate time to consider contingencies) where at beginning of Serie A he was leading in assists, and obviously still playing only as a defender!

b). I'm not going to argue the nitty gritty of contracts with you because the last time we did something like this I wasted my time seeing as you just wanted to fall back on the safety of "we cannot know, we weren't there"..... so basically a pointless discussion.

I've complained about our transfer dealing for ages, it didn't start last year. I point out simple things that we can all understand, like the trend of how much we pay for players and more importantly, how much we have sold talent compared to our rivals in the last 30 or so years.

It's really simple, we don't get value with our contracts or the transfer market (especially when compared to our rivals) due to the way we approach both, and we really need to be thankful that our academy and scouts (especially in the early years of AW) bailed us out for so long.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

You realise of course that this kind of thing happens with clubs all the time, it’s not something that’s limited to us

Look at Chelsea and De Bruyne because Mourinho didn’t rate him

Didn’t Man United have to pay over ten times the amount they’d originally sold Pogba to Juventus for

It’s a bit like the stock exchange, you weigh things up and make bets and sometimes you get it right, sometimes you don’t.

You are kind of shifting the goal posts with those examples, I mean when it comes to the particular case we are discussing ATM.

De Bruyne and Salah were sold by Mourinho after having no standout performances while being at the club (though TBH Mourinho never gave them a chance). Man U brought Pogba back at what was pretty much the going price after a spectacular season with Juventus (so it kind of buttresses my point).

Both Mika and Tavares were sold after having standout performances. Mika's case was worse as he at least had 2 successful short term loan spells and there was no obligation to buy.

Tavares was slightly different as he only had one successful loan spell and the obligation to buy was baked in earlier. But like Chelsea proved, there are ways to get out of these things if you try hard enough....and we had a longer time than Chelsea to figure it out.

Also it seems we are about committing the same mistake with Viera as it seems we want to sell him back for peanuts to Porto after another hugely successful loan spell.

It's clear we are giving ourselves a reputation, and it's obviously not a good type.

[KSE Comedy Club]

So you’re both worried that we are paying too much and worried that we aren’t doing things more quickly (presumably to negotiate a price that is reasonable) because of another club swooping in?.

I have previously stated that one of the reasons we should do our business early and quickly is that is stops other clubs sniffing around and starting a bidding war or snatching our targets (like Mudryk for example).

But yes, I would much rather we buy a proven product for 80m + instead of 'potential'

Why not snap up Osimhen for instance.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

@21Gooner - I've heard that we agreed a 40% sell-on fee for Tavares so we will actually do ok out of any sell-on

who's the striker you're talking about?

Here's what Wrighty thought of Mika.

https://www.goal.com/en-ng/lists/ian-wright-criticises-arsenal-striker-plans-helps-monaco-mika-biereth-become-scoring-sensation-monaco/blt0c74875178c11e53#cs0a89f3a6a547da71

https://www.arsenalinsider.com/news/ian-wright-says-arsenal-had-a-striker-who-reminded-him-of-himself-but-edu-sold-him-for-just-4m/

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'll ignore the first line.

a) I'm failing to connect the dots here....did I argue about the transfer fee they agreed? All I pointed out was that Chelsea refused to be taken for mugs and probably used the failure to agree terms as a loophole to backout.

I then suggested there must be some sort of clause we could exploit to ensure we get out of having to sell at a price that made absolutely no sense....and hadn't made sense since the first few months of his loan spell (so we had adequate time to consider contingencies) where at beginning of Serie A he was leading in assists, and obviously still playing only as a defender!

b). I'm not going to argue the nitty gritty of contracts with you because the last time we did something like this I wasted my time seeing as you just wanted to fall back on the safety of "we cannot know, we weren't there"..... so basically a pointless discussion.

I've complained about our transfer dealing for ages, it didn't start last year. I point out simple things that we can all understand, like the trend of how much we pay for players and more importantly, how much we have sold talent compared to our rivals in the last 30 or so years.

It's really simple, we don't get value with our contracts or the transfer market (especially when compared to our rivals) due to the way we approach both, and we really need to be thankful that our academy and scouts (especially in the early years of AW) bailed us out for so long.


So now you’re arguing Chelsea were the shrewd ones by paying 25 million to get out of a compulsory purchase clause that arguably they were silly to get into in the first place. You would be panning us if we’d failed to agree personal terms with a player we had on loan and ended up sending him back to the parent club with a cheque for 25 million.

It’s an arrangement that suits neither club really.

I also think you cherry pick when it suits you, I think the fact that we got over 70 million for Nketiah and Balogun given one is next to useless and one is at best average is exceptionally good business. You also dismiss that for clubs, the benefit with player sales is removing that player from the wage bill.


You’ve also complain that we try and low ball clubs when it comes to making purchases. The fact is as a club we aren’t perfect but in terms of finances (which I assume is what concerns you when you come on moaning about these things) are far better than most premier league clubs that aren’t either bending or outright breaking the rules.

We wanted Tavares off our books when we sent him on loan to Lazio, your argument is what…that we renege on that agreement to get more money from Lazio who in turn could take us to court for breach of contract. Or that we should have set the bar higher for his purchase to begin with? Again we wanted him off our books and Lazio probably wouldn’t have agreed to take him in the first place if we’d set it much higher (Italian clubs aren’t exactly minted). His stock has never been that high (he’s made one appearance for the national side) because although he’s good at getting forward, he can’t defend for shit and that’s why Marseille nor Forest took up a permanent option with him.

As much as it pains me to agree with him, Mac also made the point that we do have quite a generous sell on clause, I don’t think Lazio will sell him this summer….but I think should they decide to do so next summer and he’s still highly rated by Saudi clubs, we get a fair chunk of money back.

I apologise if I’ve got you wrong, but it feels to me like there’s a distinct Anti Arsenal Agenda with many of your posts that you think we as a club can’t do anything right. You know how I feel about Arteta, and I’m not exactly that kindly disposed towards KSE either. But I don’t think as a club we are as disastrously run as you portray us, and I think we would be if we tried to run the club more along the lines of Chelsea.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Played at a higher level? You just compared what they did in the Champions League, am I missing something.

Also if you mean because Sesko plays in the Bundesliga given so few forwards have performed hugely well coming from Germany, unless they're the ones signed by Man City so I'm not sure where you get the confidence from.

But like I said before, Sesko means more Havertz starting in my mind.

As for players that can be moulded that's exactly what I don't want - don't want to see idenitkit players playing in the same way, doing the same things.

That's what leads to our predictability.

That's exactly what we will be getting with Sesko.

A drop in drop out player that gets swapped with Havertz. Another Arteta 'like for like' sub.

His Plan B is Plan A.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I have previously stated that one of the reasons we should do our business ealry and quickly is that is stops other clubs sniffing around and starting a bidding war or snatching our targets (like Mudryk for example).

But yes, I would much rather we buy a proven product for 80m + instead of 'potential'

Why not snap up Osimhen for instance.

Should does a lot of heavy lifting

Easier said than done, when we work in a market place of competing interests. The argument id say that is more pertinent is that we are too rigid with our targets, for example we wanted Sesko last summer but his contract extension meant that we didn’t look elsewhere. Now the one thing we do all agree on here is that it was nuts not to buy a striker last summer.

Osimhen? There’s clearly something not right there, you don’t get shipped out from Napoli to Galatasaray for nothing.

Plus I was never keen to begin with because I think it’s not good to lose a key player for potentially 4-6 weeks every two years.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Arteta bought Havertz to play in MF where he's not very good, it was an accident (a la Merino) that he turned out to be good upfront.

So technically it was a bad buy to get someone for £65m who's not very good in the position you bought them for.

As for the bit in bold, that's all about learning to step back, cede control for a bit then win it back and go forward quickly - trouble is that's not Arteta's way, he prefers the horseshoe of death

I prefer: 'Horseshoe of shit' :good:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Well there's no sure thing in football, there's always elements of risk. It just depends on the level.

Our bar is so low in goalscoring wise (by individual players), he would only have to perform a tiny proportion of what he has done this season to outstrip anything anyone else has done.

Nothing we ever say on here will make a difference to what we actually do, so I don't really get why that distinction is being raised.

Name your striker from Germany success story that isn't Haaland. Of all the leagues to nail your colours to the mast on, Bundesliga is such a strange one to chosoe for this.

You keep talking about creativity but the amount of sitters we missed last season to me is incalculable. I want someone that is going to make the half chances pay, that's where you go to another level.

Playing style is a major issue for me and with that unlikely to happen by Arteta's own devices, I want players that are going to force that to happen.

This was my opinion I was discussing with HCZ before I had my shit news and a small meltdown (:lol:)

I do think we should add some creativity (cover for Odegaard) but I don't believe it's a major priority to address as we still create loads of chances that we do nothing with.

[KSE Comedy Club]

All of the above, like I said elsewhere, Gyokeres only needs to be half as productive to be a really good buy, yes PL is a better league but correspondingly he will have better players around him, he can put away chances

:gp:

[HCZ_Reborn]

You are kind of shifting the goal posts with those examples, I mean when it comes to the particular case we are discussing ATM.

De Bruyne and Salah were sold by Mourinho after having no standout performances while being at the club (though TBH Mourinho never gave them a chance). Man U brought Pogba back at what was pretty much the going price after a spectacular season with Juventus (so it kind of buttresses my point).

Both Mika and Tavares were sold after having standout performances. Mika's case was worse as he at least had 2 successful short term loan spells and there was no obligation to buy.

Tavares was slightly different as he only had one successful loan spell and the obligation to buy was baked in earlier. But like Chelsea proved, there are ways to get out of these things if you try hard enough....and we had a longer time than Chelsea to figure it out.

Also it seems we are about committing the same mistake with Viera as it seems we want to sell him back for peanuts to Porto after another hugely successful loan spell.

It's clear we are giving ourselves a reputation, and it's obviously not a good type.

It’s clear we are giving ourselves a reputation? According to you. Fucking hell :lol:, it’s hilarious that people accuse me of making unequivocal remarks

Tavares as explained in a previous post wasn’t wanted permanently by either Marseille or Forest

Mika Biereth actually only started scoring more prolifically after we sold him. His loan spell at Sturm Graz was one goal every three.

His overall league record (which includes spells in Dutch, Scottish and Austrian football) was 13 goals in 41 games. Ok but nothing great, and nothing that suggested the demand for him would increase exponentially

[KSE Comedy Club]

That’s where I disagree. It’s like we don’t remember tearing our hair out in frustration at Odegaard and the safety first football he was playing and the total lack of influence he was having on games.

When I look at the chances created that a top striker would have put away I think mainly of the PSG tie and even then that was as much about Donnarumma pulling off worldies

The one thing I saw a lot and definitely shows in stats is shots blocked. Because players are getting back into position to defend deep, and we are left with meandering sideways passing. I think the main reason we got frustrated with the likes of Havertz missing good chances is because they were often few and far between.

We talk about the need to change the way we play, well I suggest the best way to do that is to play two creative players in midfield unless we are playing the top teams (because our record against the top teams isn’t an issue).

The reason our build up play is slow is because we have too many players playing safety first passes, I don’t think that’s tactical that’s lack of confidence and not having the speed of thought to see a more positive pass. And that’s not a surprise when you’re playing two defensive midfielders week in, week out

The issue I take with your view on this is that you seem to ignore the previous two seasons (where we finished with higher points tally).

We scored far more goals and created a lot more chances - all with the same set of players. So they are/were capable of producing more creative and attacking football.
It was only this season where Arteta changed our gameplay to slow, possession dogshit that they have fallen off.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’m sure it’s reciprocal, but these debates do elevate my mood level. In that Im so fucking glad that none of you are responsible for the transfer business this club does :lol:

Whilst I think the club should do better, it’s good to have the perspective that it could always be a hell of a lot worse

[KSE Comedy Club]

When I bring up the now glaring fact, that we've got some of the most incompetent people handling our transfer business I usually get lectured on here by the usuals.

I doubt anyone can give me an example of a so called top European club that acts the way we do in the transfer market, especially when it comes to sales.

It's not been up to a week we sold Tavares for €6m and already news is that Lazio are inundated with bids as high as high as €30m and won't sell for anything less than €50m.

This is the 2nd time in less than a year, we are being shown off for being a soft touch, as lets not forget that we had a young striker (which MO says £60m is the going fee) we sold to a European minnow for just £4m, who later cashed in less the 6 months later, selling for £12m and now worth £30m conservatively.

In his case, forget the money and just think of the fact we had a young striker in the mould of Gyokeres when it came to a track record of delivering in a short time when it came various clubs and on the european stage. Just imagine if we'd delayed a pointless sale till January this year....just imagine the impact it could have had on our season!

I see KSE has gotten tired of keeping the dashboard going :lol:

It will return, just need to get my head straight ;)

[HCZ_Reborn]

The issue I take with your view on this is that you seem to ignore the previous two seasons (where we finished with higher points tally).

We scored far more goals and created a lot more chances - all with the same set of players. So they are/were capable of producing more creative and attacking football.
It was only this season where Arteta changed our gameplay to slow, possession dogshit that they have fallen off.

But you realise by that logic that you can say because we scored far more goals last season there’s nothing wrong with us up front, and we all agreed last season that we needed a striker.

We scored 53 goals in 18 games in the second half of 2023/2024 season, that’s partly inflated by scoring 5’s and 6’s against completely hapless teams. But also we introduced the set piece play where we opened the scoring early and we then did get other goals on the counter attack.

We absolutely struggled to break down teams in the first half of the season before this and was exacerbated by experimenting with Havertz at 8.

The problem was the same, putting too much emphasis on attacks down the right and defenders doubling up on Saka

I simply don’t get why there is so much objection to me stating that we need another creative midfielder. We all agree that our attacking build up play is too slow, well that’s the obvious way to change that.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It will return, just need to get my head straight ;)

To be honest, at the risk of giving you sensible advice. At this difficult time, I think you need all the positivity you can get and arguably getting depressed by our transfer activity (or lack there of) might not be conducive to that end :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

That's exactly what we will be getting with Sesko.

A drop in drop out player that gets swapped with Havertz. Another Arteta 'like for like' sub.

His Plan B is Plan A.

I do agree, I don't think it'll push us forward any personally.

[HCZ_Reborn]

This was my opinion I was discussing with HCZ before I had my shit news and a small meltdown (:lol:)

I do think we should add some creativity (cover for Odegaard) but I don't believe it's a major priority to address as we still create loads of chances that we do nothing with.

If the problem was just putting it in the net and not chances created, the XG would be more reflective of that. And outside of a European tie against PSG, it just isn’t.

At home against most teams our XG should be averaging around 2.5, and it isn’t anywhere near that

[Mac76]

I struggle to think of many transfers Arteta's got right, the big majority are fails in one way or another, at least in terms of Arteta’s intentions

Fails:

Jesus - good for half a season, got injured, then a flop thereafter
Zin - worst signing since Mustafi - can't play at all at LB where Arteta bought him for and barely any better elsewhere
Neto - -disastrous last-minute cup-tied signing because Arteta was obsessed with paying £30m for a backup goalie in Garcia
Sterling - nice guy, can't play any more
Soares - no comment
Trusty - as trusty as a blind marksman
Marquinhos – doesn’t seem to add up to much
Willian – not only a dreadful player in his own right but for a long time preferred by Arteta to Saka
Lokonga – pretty mediocre though Arteta never really give him a chance
Tavares – looking like a good player but Arteta never really gave him a chance
Mat Ryan – crap
Vieira – underrated IMO but probably not a good fit and again Arteta never really gave him a chance so why buy?
Matt Turner – crap
Runarrsson – double crap

Good signings by accident

Trossard, Jorginho and Kiwior (none of whom we'd have got if Arteta's obsession with Mudryk didn't finally hit the buffers when Chelsea stepped in)
White - bought as a CB, looked iffy but luckily for Arteta turned out to be a very good RB
Timber - great player, but it’s not clear he was actually bought to play at RB which is clearly where he’s best
Gabriel - excellent player obvs, but this was very early in Arteta's tenure which makes me think he had little to do with it
Havertz - yes he's ok up front but that's not what Arteta bought him to do, as a MF he's pretty average IMO
Merino - humdrum midfielder who's only seemed like a good buy because (due to general transfer failure to bring in more forward players) he had to be put upfront
Calafiori - can do something in attack but injury prone, and again a total fail as a LB, only Zin’s defending is worse and that’s an all-time low across world football


Good signings

Rice – let’s face it you’d have to be a complete moron not to recognise Rice’s class or what he could bring to the team – the price tag told its own story
Ramsdale - for a while until Arteta broke him, though I admit Raya's better
Raya – good signing but Arteta destabilised his first season with all the rubbish about playing both him and Ram when he had no intention of doing so
Odegaard – look we all know the guy can play, but I'm thinking more and more that basing the team around him is a mistake and his fiddling around and too-clever-by-half FKs and corners are driving me insane


And finally let’s talk about Saliba, not an Arteta signing but who Arteta kept farming out and saying he ‘wasn’t ready’ until finally, when he played, he immediately stood out as one of the best CBs in Europe – by all accounts we were perilously close to losing him

[HCZ_Reborn]

I do recognise Rice’s class, I think he’s a top defensive midfielder being played in a creative role

I wouldn’t be fussed if we didn’t sign Zubimendi, kept Rice at 6 where his ability to spot danger and put out fires is much more used to us then at 8, where a player who is quicker, better at dribbling and can spot a pass half a second quicker would excel better against obdurate teams. Rice does well there when we have teams that come to play, but so did Ramsey (sorry I should never insult Rice by comparing him to Ramsey like that)

Most of the players you’ve marked as flops were cheap, and players that worked out by design or accident as very good were more expensive….so not really a problem is it

[Mac76]

Most of the players you’ve marked as flops were cheap, and players that worked out by design or accident as very good were more expensive….so not really a problem is it

We over paid for Merino and Cala (if we should have signed them at all) and by contrast I think Trossard, Jorg and Kiwior were bargains

Odegaard was also actually very cheap - £30m - for a young player who at his best is very good

[Mac76]

I do recognise Rice’s class, I think he’s a top defensive midfielder being played in a creative role



He's wasted at 6 (though you make a good point that I think that's wher he may have been signed for another accidental success if that's the case) and has done an excellent job at 8 where he can impose himself on the game more and has contributed some important goals and assists

We need more creativity in that area but that can come from different players at different times

[HCZ_Reborn]

We over paid for Merino and Cala (if we should have signed them at all) and by contrast I think Trossard, Jorg and Kiwior were bargains

Odegaard was also actually very cheap - £30m - for a young player who at his best is very good

And you didn’t put either Merino or Calafiori in as a flop either

[Mac76]

And you didn’t put either Merino or Calafiori in as a flop either

I could have put them under the 'fail' - not 'flop' - heading, but was trying to recognise that they had actually contributed in some way

That said given we needed attackers in other positions, that adds an additional 'fail' element

[HCZ_Reborn]

He's wasted at 6 (though you make a good point that I think that's wher he may have been signed for another accidental success if that's the case) and has done an excellent job at 8 where he can impose himself on the game more and has contributed some important goals and assists

We need more creativity in that area but that can come from different players at different times

Again Rice can play well in that position in a more open game. But we are asking him to be something he isn’t. A player that can see passes all over the pitch, a player with explosive acceleration, a player who is a top dribbler. Rice is good there compared to Merino but Merino is awful….we should have been looking to sell him as an inducement to Sociedad if we want Zubimendi.

It’s not controversial to say we should play two creative players in the middle of the park. When Bernardo Silva isn’t being shunted out to the right, him and De Bruyne have occupied the middle. It only doesn’t work if you’re a retard like Gareth Southgate and you cause Jude Bellingham and Phil Foden to get under each others feet

[KSE Comedy Club]

So now you’re arguing Chelsea were the shrewd ones by paying 25 million to get out of a compulsory purchase clause that arguably they were silly to get into in the first place. You would be panning us if we’d failed to agree personal terms with a player we had on loan and ended up sending him back to the parent club with a cheque for 25 million.

It’s an arrangement that suits neither club really.

I also think you cherry pick when it suits you, I think the fact that we got over 70 million for Nketiah and Balogun given one is next to useless and one is at best average is exceptionally good business. You also dismiss that for clubs, the benefit with player sales is removing that player from the wage bill.


You’ve also complain that we try and low ball clubs when it comes to making purchases. The fact is as a club we aren’t perfect but in terms of finances (which I assume is what concerns you when you come on moaning about these things) are far better than most premier league clubs that aren’t either bending or outright breaking the rules.

We wanted Tavares off our books when we sent him on loan to Lazio, your argument is what…that we renege on that agreement to get more money from Lazio who in turn could take us to court for breach of contract. Or that we should have set the bar higher for his purchase to begin with? Again we wanted him off our books and Lazio probably wouldn’t have agreed to take him in the first place if we’d set it much higher (Italian clubs aren’t exactly minted). His stock has never been that high (he’s made one appearance for the national side) because although he’s good at getting forward, he can’t defend for shit and that’s why Marseille nor Forest took up a permanent option with him.

As much as it pains me to agree with him, Mac also made the point that we do have quite a generous sell on clause, I don’t think Lazio will sell him this summer….but I think should they decide to do so next summer and he’s still highly rated by Saudi clubs, we get a fair chunk of money back.

I apologise if I’ve got you wrong, but it feels to me like there’s a distinct Anti Arsenal Agenda with many of your posts that you think we as a club can’t do anything right. You know how I feel about Arteta, and I’m not exactly that kindly disposed towards KSE either. But I don’t think as a club we are as disastrously run as you portray us, and I think we would be if we tried to run the club more along the lines of Chelsea.

But harsh mate, I thought we'd buried the hatchet :(







;)

[KSE Comedy Club]

Should does a lot of heavy lifting

Easier said than done, when we work in a market place of competing interests. The argument id say that is more pertinent is that we are too rigid with our targets, for example we wanted Sesko last summer but his contract extension meant that we didn’t look elsewhere. Now the one thing we do all agree on here is that it was nuts not to buy a striker last summer.

Osimhen? There’s clearly something not right there, you don’t get shipped out from Napoli to Galatasaray for nothing.

Plus I was never keen to begin with because I think it’s not good to lose a key player for potentially 4-6 weeks every two years.

Agreed on all of those. I said Osimhen as an example but tbh I'm not actually that keen on him personally.

[KSE Comedy Club]

But you realise by that logic that you can say because we scored far more goals last season there’s nothing wrong with us up front, and we all agreed last season that we needed a striker.

We scored 53 goals in 18 games in the second half of 2023/2024 season, that’s partly inflated by scoring 5’s and 6’s against completely hapless teams. But also we introduced the set piece play where we opened the scoring early and we then did get other goals on the counter attack.

We absolutely struggled to break down teams in the first half of the season before this and was exacerbated by experimenting with Havertz at 8.

The problem was the same, putting too much emphasis on attacks down the right and defenders doubling up on Saka

I simply don’t get why there is so much objection to me stating that we need another creative midfielder. We all agree that our attacking build up play is too slow, well that’s the obvious way to change that.

Well not quite.

Yes we scored more goals, however, the issue has always been that we don't score enough goals across all games.

When we struggle to score 1 or sometimes 0 goals in 3-4 games, then score 6 in another it distorts the actual result of no. of goals scored.

However, it doesn't mean we aren't capable of scoring goals, we just need different options when we face difficult to break down opponents.

[KSE Comedy Club]

To be honest, at the risk of giving you sensible advice. At this difficult time, I think you need all the positivity you can get and arguably getting depressed by our transfer activity (or lack there of) might not be conducive to that end :lol:

:haha: That is very true!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well not quite.

Yes we scored more goals, however, the issue has always been that we don't score enough goals across all games.

When we struggle to score 1 or sometimes 0 goals in 3-4 games, then score 6 in another it distorts the actual result of no. of goals scored.

However, it doesn't mean we aren't capable of scoring goals, we just need different options when we face difficult to break down opponents.

Yes and for me that option is about having an additional creative midfielder in the team when we are playing teams that are more obdurate

What I will say is that whilst we were able to score a lot of goals against incapable teams in that run, the only teams we didn’t score against were Man City (where we were more looking to take a draw) and against Villa (although I think with that it was the fact that we put out a stupid lineup, this came a few days after journalists asked a question to Arteta about when he’d decided that Havertz was better off up front and he then played him in midfield again out of spite).

The main reason for this is because in a lot of games our set piece play really did shit up teams, I think to a degree teams have learnt to neutralise that threat….also I think we badly missed Saka and White who played such a vital role in those routines.

[Marc Overmars]

Sounds like Zubimendi is pretty much done and the Real Madrid links were just nonsense.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

So now you’re arguing Chelsea were the shrewd ones by paying 25 million to get out of a compulsory purchase clause that arguably they were silly to get into in the first place. You would be panning us if we’d failed to agree personal terms with a player we had on loan and ended up sending him back to the parent club with a cheque for 25 million.

It’s an arrangement that suits neither club really.

I also think you cherry pick when it suits you, I think the fact that we got over 70 million for Nketiah and Balogun given one is next to useless and one is at best average is exceptionally good business. You also dismiss that for clubs, the benefit with player sales is removing that player from the wage bill.


You’ve also complain that we try and low ball clubs when it comes to making purchases. The fact is as a club we aren’t perfect but in terms of finances (which I assume is what concerns you when you come on moaning about these things) are far better than most premier league clubs that aren’t either bending or outright breaking the rules.

We wanted Tavares off our books when we sent him on loan to Lazio, your argument is what…that we renege on that agreement to get more money from Lazio who in turn could take us to court for breach of contract. Or that we should have set the bar higher for his purchase to begin with? Again we wanted him off our books and Lazio probably wouldn’t have agreed to take him in the first place if we’d set it much higher (Italian clubs aren’t exactly minted). His stock has never been that high (he’s made one appearance for the national side) because although he’s good at getting forward, he can’t defend for shit and that’s why Marseille nor Forest took up a permanent option with him.

As much as it pains me to agree with him, Mac also made the point that we do have quite a generous sell on clause, I don’t think Lazio will sell him this summer….but I think should they decide to do so next summer and he’s still highly rated by Saudi clubs, we get a fair chunk of money back.

I apologise if I’ve got you wrong, but it feels to me like there’s a distinct Anti Arsenal Agenda with many of your posts that you think we as a club can’t do anything right. You know how I feel about Arteta, and I’m not exactly that kindly disposed towards KSE either. But I don’t think as a club we are as disastrously run as you portray us, and I think we would be if we tried to run the club more along the lines of Chelsea.

First of all, Chelsea are paying £5m to get out of paying £25m and an additional £150k in wages for Sancho. I didn't get that you got this wrong and that was why I was confused by the first point you mentioned which I did not get (alluding to Chelsea paying £25m to get out of a £25m transfer WTF :lol: ).

Also, if one looks at the deal financially, Chelsea still shafted Man U as Sancho's wages are 300k a week, but the loan agreement meant Chelsea only payed 50% of it. This means they saved £5.4m on his wages for the whole deal, which is probably why they did not bat an eyelid to renege on the transfer. So the answer to your 1st paragraph, is a definitive "yes", they were clearly the shrewd ones in this deal, and the ones that took their business school classes seriously, no matter how much it pains the likes of people like you to admit.

As for your next paragraph on Tavares, I'm actually with you on the way you rate him as a player. He couldn't defend well enough for me so I never wanted him to stay. However this in no way changes the argument that at £30k a week and at 24, being a full Portuguese international, he had value and we failed to exploit it because we panicked as usual, and took the boring conservative option when dealing with an asset.

But let's get back to the contract. Now it might seem to the simple bloke on the street (a tag no one is pinning on you ;) ) that there is no way to get out of an obligation to sell. But did you consider what would have happened if we had broached the offer of a new contract to his agent? You already stated that Lazio was happy to take him because "they're not minted", so if we had said to him, "BTW Nuno's agent, we see what your client is doing in Serie A, maybe we made a misstep, what would he say to 80k-100k a week". With this planted in his mind, Nuno fails to agree terms with Lazio and "voila", we get him back and maybe even consider not penalising Lazio for not buying him, that's if we even bothered to put a penalty clause in the contract.

Now, from your antecedents, I know this idea disgusts you and you'll scream to high heavens how dare anyone consider that, but this is a world inhabited by people from corporate finance and contracts, and as long as it is legal, all is fair.

Also for examples of clauses being bypassed, legally their is practically no difference between an obligation to sell clause and a club inputting a release or buy out clause in a contract (and please take your time to think about it logically). Various examples are replete in Spain of clubs refusing to sell after the release clause were met but let me focus on the one you should be familiar with since you are the " best" Arsenal fan on here.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/mar/02/liverpool-john-henry-luis-suarez-clause

Do you remember when Liverpool refused to allow us to speak with Suarez after we had offered to meet his release clause (if not see the link ). They were also in breach, and admitted it to us a few years later. Imagine what would have happened to that club if they hadn't called our bluff and had to sell Suarez, who was kicking and screaming that he wanted to come to us

In closing, I really miss the days when we had sound minds Dein running this club, these were the things that were a given, no one would shaft us, let alone twice (you might be forgetting that Lazio also took advantage of us with Guendozi ). Contracts and agreements meant to Dein what they mean to every serious suit in the corporate world, and if in doubt, ask Cashely :lol:

Which leads to your silly and petulant last paragraph which suggests I'm Anti Arsenal because I'm not singing from the Hynm book as determined by HCZ.....I'm not even going to bother commenting on this.

Ohhhh...I am 100% certain Lazio will sell him, at least within the next 6 months as that was always their plan, and only the silly suits like the ones we have wouldn't have seen that from a mile away.

[HCZ_Reborn]

First of all, Chelsea are paying £5m to get out of paying £25m and an additional £150k in wages for Sancho. I didn't get that you got this wrong and that was why I was confused by the first point you mentioned which I did not get (alluding to Chelsea paying £25m to get out of a £25m transfer WTF :lol: ).

Also, if one looks at the deal financially, Chelsea still shafted Man U as Sancho's wages are 300k a week, but the loan agreement meant Chelsea only payed 50% of it. This means they saved £5.4m on his wages for the whole deal, which is probably why they did not bat an eyelid to renege on the transfer. So the answer to your 1st paragraph, is a definitive "yes", they were clearly the shrewd ones in this deal, and the ones that took their business school classes seriously, no matter how much it pains the likes of people like you to admit.

As for your next paragraph on Tavares, I'm actually with you on the way you rate him as a player. He couldn't defend well enough for me so I never wanted him to stay. However this in no way changes the argument that at £30k a week and at 24, being a full Portuguese international, he had value and we failed to exploit it because we panicked as usual, and took the boring conservative option when dealing with an asset.

But let's get back to the contract. Now it might seem to the simple bloke on the street (a tag no one is pinning on you ;) ) that there is no way to get out of an obligation to sell. But did you consider what would have happened if we had broached the offer of a new contract to his agent? You already stated that Lazio was happy to take him because "they're not minted", so if we had said to him, "BTW Nuno's agent, we see what your client is doing in Serie A, maybe we made a misstep, what would he say to 80k-100k a week". With this planted in his mind, Nuno fails to agree terms with Lazio and "voila", we get him back and maybe even consider not penalising Lazio for not buying him, that's if we even bothered to put a penalty clause in the contract.

Now, from your antecedents, I know this idea disgusts you and you'll scream to high heavens how dare anyone consider that, but this is a world inhabited by people from corporate finance and contracts, and as long as it is legal, all is fair.

Also for examples of clauses being bypassed, legally their is practically no difference between an obligation to sell clause and a club inputting a release or buy out clause in a contract (and please take your time to think about it logically). Various examples are replete in Spain of clubs refusing to sell after the release clause were met but let me focus on the one you should be familiar with since you are the " best" Arsenal fan on here.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/mar/02/liverpool-john-henry-luis-suarez-clause

Do you remember when Liverpool refused to allow us to speak with Suarez after we had offered to meet his release clause (if not see the link ). They were also in breach, and admitted it to us a few years later. Imagine what would have happened to that club if they hadn't called our bluff and had to sell Suarez, who was kicking and screaming that he wanted to come to us

In closing, I really miss the days when we had sound minds Dein running this club, these were the things that were a given, no one would shaft us, let alone twice (you might be forgetting that Lazio also took advantage of us with Guendozi ). Contracts and agreements meant to Dein what they mean to every serious suit in the corporate world, and if in doubt, ask Cashely :lol:

Which leads to your silly and petulant last paragraph which suggests I'm Anti Arsenal because I'm not singing from the Hynm book as determined by HCZ.....I'm not even going to bother commenting on this.

Ohhhh...I am 100% certain Lazio will sell him, at least within the next 6 months as that was always their plan, and only the silly suits like the ones we have wouldn't have seen that from a mile away.

See your second from last paragraph is just projection. I’m not telling you how it is, I’m telling you how it comes across to me. And this is from seeing you post on here for a couple of years, there is to my mind a relentless negativity…you seemed to go postal over the collapse of the Mudryk deal, the Rice deal was getting to you…etc and you tend to be incredibly slanted towards a negative appraisal of the club. It’s an observation, I could be wrong, I could be right…it’s hardly like you’ve been shy making observations about me.

Lazio have firmly refused approaches from the Saudis, so it’s just possible that they actually want to keep the player rather than this insistence that the whole thing was a ruse to make a profit in a short turnaround.

Also you don’t breach contracts, not because of ethical considerations…it’s because no one will do business with you again if you do. And you especially don’t do it, for what an extra 20 million…that’s Trump like mentality.

There was no breach with Suarez, what made us look foolish with that is that we took what was a negotiation clause (as in if a club met that minimum, that the player needed to be brought into the loop and negotiations would take place with the club offering to buy, as we weren’t prepared to offer more there was nothing to negotiate) as a release clause.

Do you honestly think Atletico Madrid were just weak when we met Partey’s release clause, that was an actual release clause and they had to honour it.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

See your second from last paragraph is just projection. I’m not telling you how it is, I’m telling you how it comes across to me. And this is from seeing you post on here for a couple of years, there is to my mind a relentless negativity…you seemed to go postal over the collapse of the Mudryk deal, the Rice deal was getting to you…etc and you tend to be incredibly slanted towards a negative appraisal of the club. It’s an observation, I could be wrong, I could be right…it’s hardly like you’ve been shy making observations about me.

Lazio have firmly refused approaches from the Saudis, so it’s just possible that they actually want to keep the player rather than this insistence that the whole thing was a ruse to make a profit in a short turnaround.

Also you don’t breach contracts, not because of ethical considerations…it’s because no one will do business with you again if you do. And you especially don’t do it, for what an extra 20 million…that’s Trump like mentality.

There was no breach with Suarez, what made us look foolish with that is that we took what was a negotiation clause (as in if a club met that minimum, that the player needed to be brought into the loop and negotiations would take place with the club offering to buy, as we weren’t prepared to offer more there was nothing to negotiate) as a release clause.

Do you honestly think Atletico Madrid were just weak when we met Partey’s release clause, that was an actual release clause and they had to honour it.

How my "rants" come across to you shouldn't really matter. I don't believe the club is run properly and I've been consistent about this on this platform (and others online) for the past 20 or so years. If all of a sudden you are just realising it, maybe in the next 10-15 years you'll realise that it makes little sense for a non-Arsenal fan to be so invested with these ultimately "pointless" discussions we have here if one did not care.

As for this Tavares situation, I've already been definitive that they'll sell him, so lets see how that turns out....but even if I'm right/wrong you're not going to give/take away a cookie, are you?

So I'll be a grown up and leave it the way it is, as we've reached an impasse, which is a familiar trait of discussions with you.

Hopefully this thread is sparked to life with a meaningful news of a transfer, something most of our other rivals are actually enjoying currently, and not more crap of how bad we are at both ends of this game (transfer business).

[HCZ_Reborn]

How my "rants" come across to you shouldn't really matter. I don't believe the club is run properly and I've been consistent about this on this platform (and others online) for the past 20 or so years. If all of a sudden you are just realising it, maybe in the next 10-15 years you'll realise that it makes little sense for a non-Arsenal fan to be so invested with these ultimately "pointless" discussions we have here if one did not care.

As for this Tavares situation, I've already been definitive that they'll sell him, so lets see how that turns out....but even if I'm right/wrong you're not going to give/take away a cookie, are you?

So I'll be a grown up and leave it the way it is, as we've reached an impasse, which is familiar trait of discussions with you.

Hopefully this thread is sparked to life with a meaningful news of a transfer, something most of our other rivals are actually enjoying currently, and not more crap of how bad we are at both ends of this game (transfer business).


I’m confused, you’ve more or less admitted what I’ve said to you. And Yes I view it as you being relentlessly negative because I think you portray things in the most negative light, and in my view you do so because you start out with the first principle of “I believe this club is not run properly” . I conversely don’t believe the club is run badly, I think it makes decisions that I disagree with or from time to time seem objectively self defeating.

Do I think it’s run as well as it could be, No…but neither do I accept your appraisal which seems to view it all from a disastrous lens.

So basically our impasse is that you don’t like how I characterise your view, which is of course something you’ve every right to not like.

But I’m not here to evangelise (I will criticise arguments but the idea that I’m going to change your mind is beyond me) and presumably you’re not either, it seems to me however that you resent that I don’t see things as you do. If I did I wouldn’t argue with you. Sometimes I have misconstrued what you’re saying and I get it wrong, but if I disagree with people here I’m going to say so.

I’m not going to go back to childish insults because they are unnecessary and get us nowhere. But it’s true to say that not only do we fundamentally disagree on our analysis of the club, we disagree on what a club should behave like.

And if you want to look at it like I’m refusing to see the truth of things, well I’ll explain why I think you’re wrong but you’ll believe what you want to (as everyone else here including myself will also do).

[HCZ_Reborn]

But to precise my argument, both you and other people on here seem to take either disagreement or observing openly what the motivation appears to me to be behind your arguments as an attempt to silence you.

I argue hard if I believe I'm right about something, if I’m less convinced of my position I let it go.

You’ve in the past spoken of my posts as if I’m engaging in some epic battle. It’s not, it’s just in the real world I do have to learn to pick my battles and bite my tongue when it’s not worth it.

Here? I don’t have the same consequential constraints