Summer Transfers 2025 Missed Opportunities and Regrets

[HCZ_Reborn]

A) I think those reports are for clicks
B) we don’t have an alternative target
C) what other top strikers are there - none that I have seen available

A) You could be right

B) If we can’t find an alternative striker we have bigger problems than failure to agree a transfer fee

C) The term top striker does a lot of heavy lifting when it comes to Gyokeres. In fact I’d go a step further and say the term simply cannot apply to any striker who plays in Portugal because of the volume of players who have moved from that league and flopped elsewhere. To the point that if Gyokeres comes and was successful here, he would be the first (even Radamel Falcao did well in Spain and France, but managed five goals in 36 appearances in the premier league for United and Chelsea)
I know you don’t want to accept it, but outside the big three clubs the Portuguese league is exceptionally poor and therefore it gives no indication of how good a player is.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And for people accusing me of omitting his Champions League record, I mean a) it’s ok not great and b) scoring in the champions league proves you can score in the champions league…the competition is prestigious because of the money you get for playing in it, but outside of say Real Madrid, Bayern, PSG, Barcelona and one or two others…most of the teams are no better than what we face in the league week in, week out…and actually at least half of them are no where near as good.

Gyokeres is an unknown with an ok record in Europe, a fairly decent record in the English championship and an excellent record in a league that contains many teams of lower quality than the championship. It really isn’t controversial an opinion.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Anyway I said I wasn’t going to say anymore about him, because I’m really repeating myself at this point. I’ll be honest I don’t really understand people’s enthusiasm for him anymore than people can understand my shall we say severe reluctance to sign him. At the moment John Cross (who isn’t really much more reliable than Fabrizio Romano) is claiming that talks will resume again…it does feel a bit odd that both sides would be so intractable over what amounts to about 3-4 million.

[Mac76]

£50-£65m for a player that is inferior to everything we currently have is silly to me. So was signing Havertz for pretty much the same fee, and I said it clearly then.

I hate this habit of us taking underperforming players off of Chelsea's wage bill...they are our direct competitor, we're not suppose to be actively seeking to get them out of every bind they get into.

If Arteta is adamant about it, it should be less than what they paid PSV.....the same way we did with Havertz, the same way we're doing with Kepa.

I'd rather we be made a mug of by the likes of West Ham, Brentford and Palace.....they are welcome to our "clean" hard earned money, not Chelsea

All of this, except I don't want us being made mugs of by anyone (some hope)

[Mac76]

A) I think those reports are for clicks
B) we don’t have an alternative target
C) what other top strikers are there - none that I have seen available

A) let's hope so
B) and C) unless you count Watkins (though only for say £50m) but while I like him it would be underwhelming

I wonder if our sticking fast on money to a degree which I think doesn't make sense (if it's just 5m then pay it ffs) is to do with Arteta wanting to sabotage it because he wanted Sesko, hence bidding too much for Madueke and then saying we need to drive a hard bargain over Gyokeres to balance things out, knowing it would scupper the deal...

[Chippy]

Fuck me! The spuds have met Morgan Gibbs-White release clause. They are suddenly having a good couple of days in the transfer market whilst we continue to fuck around trying to find a striker.

[KSE Comedy Club]

A) let's hope so
B) and C) unless you count Watkins (though only for say £50m) but while I like him it would be underwhelming

I wonder if our sticking fast on money to a degree which I think doesn't make sense (if it's just 5m then pay it ffs) is to do with Arteta wanting to sabotage it because he wanted Sesko, hence bidding too much for Madueke and then saying we need to drive a hard bargain over Gyokeres to balance things out, knowing it would scupper the deal...
I saw a tweet for someone yesterday that said we have agreed a deal with sporting, Berta was then flying back to deal with media duties & announcement for Nordgaard (which did happen today) and then Goku would be coming for a medical on Friday.

Obviously a pinch of salt, but he was correct on the Nordgaard stuff so fingers crossed

also if Arteta did that kind of sabotage then he should be sacked on the spot.

[Mac76]

I saw a tweet for someone yesterday that said we have agreed a deal with sporting, Berta was then flying back to deal with media duties & announcement for Nordgaard (which did happen today) and then Goku would be coming for a medical on Friday.

Obviously a pinch of salt, but he was correct on the Nordgaard stuff so fingers crossed

also if Arteta did that kind of sabotage then he should be sacked on the spot.

Yeah let's hope all's good still

[Mac76]

Fuck me! The spuds have met Morgan Gibbs-White release clause. They are suddenly having a good couple of days in the transfer market whilst we continue to fuck around trying to find a striker.

Hate to say it but with Frank there and CL football, which clearly is helping with these signings, we need to brace ourselves

Next season will be really tough even to finish top 4 IMO - Chelsea, Liverpool, Citeh, Spuds, Utd all tooling up

[Chippy]

Hate to say it but with Frank there and CL football, which clearly is helping with these signings, we need to brace ourselves

Next season will be really tough even to finish top 4 IMO - Chelsea, Liverpool, Citeh, Spuds, Utd all tooling up

This why I really didn't want those fuckers to win the Europa League. I was really enjoying them being shit last year.

[Marc Overmars]

Romano is reporting that a 52m fee has been agreed with Chelsea for Madueke. Sounds like this one could be almost done.

Good luck to the guy because it’s not exactly a signing that’s going to be welcomed by all…

[KSE Comedy Club]

Romano is reporting that a 52m fee has been agreed with Chelsea for Madueke. Sounds like this one could be almost done.

Good luck to the guy because it’s not exactly a signing that’s going to be welcomed by all…

It’s got the here we go, done deal £52m

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Hate to say it but with Frank there and CL football, which clearly is helping with these signings, we need to brace ourselves

Next season will be really tough even to finish top 4 IMO - Chelsea, Liverpool, Citeh, Spuds, Utd all tooling up

Fully agree with this. Also once United tie up Mbuemo, that would mean they've made 2 good attacking signings and stopped gambling and looking for the next young superstar.(Edit: just noticed you mentioned united already).

Next season is going to be tough, and wasting money on underwhelming talent like Noni Madueke, who practically played almost every game for Chelsea last season yet still couldn't deliver, makes me think Arteta has learnt little to nothing from the Havertz deal and continues to vastly over estimate his ability to coach and improve players., especially those who are flattening.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think on one hand the price we are paying for him is far too high especially given we are at an impasse with Sporting over Gyokeres but then again when players like Elanga and Gibbs White are going for similar fees, we can’t really be too surprised. I think if a striker and someone like Eze isn’t signed as well, we are going to have a particularly pissed off fanbase.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Fully agree with this. Also once United tie up Mbuemo, that would mean they've made 2 good attacking signings and stopped gambling and looking for the next young superstar.(Edit: just noticed you mentioned united already).

Next season is going to be tough, and wasting money on underwhelming talent like Noni Madueke, who practically played almost every game for Chelsea last season yet still couldn't deliver, makes me think Arteta has learnt little to nothing from the Havertz deal and continues to vastly over estimate his ability to coach and improve players., especially those who are flattening.

I’m not convinced Mbeumo and Cunha are going to change United’s fortunes to the point where they make the leap from 16th to top four.


I like Kudus (and I’d happily have him here as a squad player) but I don’t think he or Gibbs-White are suddenly going to breach the gap for Spurs between a season when in any other season they’d have been relegated and top four.


Chelsea ? Well I think Cole Palmer aside, it’s not unreasonable to suggest that Chelsea don’t tend to get the best out of their players. They’ve signed a lot of players but nothing really of a higher quality than what they’ve already got


It is going to be a hard season next season so I’m sure you don’t disagree with the idea that we need squad depth (but also it’s going to be hard for Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle etc as well)

Don’t get me wrong I agree with you that I’d rather not be helping Chelsea out of a FFP hole of their own making, I’d happily wave as they sink into it, I despise that club. But Havertz and potentially Madueke are going to be useful squad players next season, and unfortunately in an age of silly money that’s what you pay even for squad players

But as I say if we don’t sign a striker and a player in the Eze mould (someone who can add creativity in our midfield), I’ll be horrendously pissed off.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Again probably paper talk, but it might please you to know that Lookman is being looked at if we don’t get Eze

[Marc Overmars]

Feel a bit for Madueke making a big move and getting pelters from the fanbase. Blame Arteta and the club who use Chelsea because it’s an easy move, not the player.

If we can just get Gyokeres done ASAP then most fans will be relaxed about this window after. Although a lot of fans have now hung their hats on Eze too and I feel like that’s a 50/50 move as Palace don’t really have to play ball unless we pay the release clause.

[Marc Overmars]

Also should think about getting a few players out the door.

To start

Zinchenko
Nelson
Vieira
Lokonga

Trossard has also been linked with Fenerbahce

[HCZ_Reborn]

Feel a bit for Madueke making a big move and getting pelters from the fanbase. Blame Arteta and the club who use Chelsea because it’s an easy move, not the player.

If we can just get Gyokeres done ASAP then most fans will be relaxed about this window after. Although a lot of fans have now hung their hats on Eze too and I feel like that’s a 50/50 move as Palace don’t really have to play ball unless we pay the release clause.

The only thing I’d say is that as many people have pointed out, the social media fan base is not the same as the match going fan base who I don’t think will give Madueke a hard time. The last Arsenal player I really recall getting a hard time from match going fans was Xhaka at the end of Emery’s time. I definitely didn’t want us signing Welbeck, but I was at the game when he got a hat-trick against Galatasaray (and kidded myself for a short time that he could be a potential Ian Wright) and cheered him to the rafters.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Also should think about getting a few players out the door.

To start

Zinchenko
Nelson
Vieira
Lokonga

Trossard has also been linked with Fenerbahce

What I’ve heard is that Trossard has agreed personal terms with Fenerbahce and that it’s just a case of agreeing a fee with us (good luck to him I say, he was a good signing for us and still has enough in his locker to be a useful player for someone)

Zinchenko I’ve seen him being linked with Fulham and AC Milan

Nelson ? I’d consider offering him to a club like Leeds or Sunderland who seem to have a little bit of money to spend if Fulham don’t want him on the permanent

Vieira. I think more than likely we will end up selling him back to Porto


Lokonga ? I don’t think anyone wants him, so we will either be stuck with him or end up cancelling his contract

[IBK]

A) You could be right

B) If we can’t find an alternative striker we have bigger problems than failure to agree a transfer fee

C) The term top striker does a lot of heavy lifting when it comes to Gyokeres. In fact I’d go a step further and say the term simply cannot apply to any striker who plays in Portugal because of the volume of players who have moved from that league and flopped elsewhere. To the point that if Gyokeres comes and was successful here, he would be the first (even Radamel Falcao did well in Spain and France, but managed five goals in 36 appearances in the premier league for United and Chelsea)
I know you don’t want to accept it, but outside the big three clubs the Portuguese league is exceptionally poor and therefore it gives no indication of how good a player is.

Yep there are question marks, but the same applied to Sesko also. I'd say that in a sense there would even have been question marks over Isak (were he achievable)...not the player's ability but the effect on Arsenal of blowing £120M on one player and whether his fitness record improvement last season was a one off...and how it would stand up to the rigours of CL football.

My tuppence worth is that there is a clear dearth of 'world class' strikers available to Arsenal, and we have little choice but to take the risk with Gyokores given that it appears a deal cannot be reched for Sesko. I'd also say that we don't even need a 25 goal a season striker. The people who are running scared of our EPL competition are perhaps forgetting how good our team is already. The travails of last season have obscured the fact that when fit we are a match for anyone, and are in good shape in MF and defence. If we can finish second in the league without a striker at all, even 15 goals from a new striker, plus Havertz staying fit for most of the season will improve us.

Elsewhere - its cover that we really need, and these types of signings (plus Eze :pray:) will never really excite but will nonetheless help avoid the problems that beset our team last season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I get where you’re coming from. But I guess for me, there are certain rules to be observed in a transfer market. Don’t sign a goalkeeper who is shorter than 6ft, avoid if possible signing a player from Africa because of AFCON and don’t sign a striker either from leagues like Portugal, Netherlands, Belgium etc unless they are young prospects.

I don’t know that Gyokeres can’t play in the premier league (although I think he’d struggle for space unless we sign a creative player to get through the mid-low block) and Sesko is definitely a high risk signing but I think he has the potential to be an absolute top player and I’m a little more confident in a player that has scored even less than 1 in 2 in the Bundesliga than someone who has scored a hatful in the Portuguese league

Strikers are at a premium because the traditional no9 is often eschewed now. PSG the current European champions operate without one.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://x.com/afc12thman/status/1943579236935053409?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

I want Arteta out as much as the next guy, but because of Madueke?

Social media really creates a hive mind effect

[Mac76]

Well as the post says it's the straw breaking the camels's back

it's a shame to vandalise the North Banksy murals

I suspect whoever did it was drunk at the time though no excuse...

if we don't get at least Gyokeres (though really we need Eze too) and then don't get off to a good start this season Arteta could be facing an increasing backlash

[Mac76]

Now there's talk of our having discussions with Vlahovic due to our haggling over peanuts with Gyokeres

[dazthegooner]

Said this earlier rumour has it that he's looking for Juventus to cancel his contract so may soon become a free agent.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/13395403/morgan-gibbs-white-transfer-news-tottenham-hotspur-move-in-jeopardy-as-nottingham-forest-consider-legal-action

Snigger and Chortle

[KSE Comedy Club]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/13395403/morgan-gibbs-white-transfer-news-tottenham-hotspur-move-in-jeopardy-as-nottingham-forest-consider-legal-action

Snigger and Chortle
You love to see it

[KSE Comedy Club]

Now there's talk of our having discussions with Vlahovic due to our haggling over peanuts with Gyokeres

I’m guessing it’s just to put more pressure on sporting.

I think Goku will be done by Monday, ready for preseason, personally

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’m guessing it’s just to put more pressure on sporting.

I think Goku will be done by Monday, ready for preseason, personally

Goku?

Is it because he has blonde hair with the whole Super Saiyan thing (I’m far too old to be referencing a Japanese anime made for kids :lol:)

[KSE Comedy Club]

Goku?

Is it because he has blonde hair with the whole Super Saiyan thing (I’m far too old to be referencing a Japanese anime made for kids :lol:)

:lol: yeh pretty much and I can’t be arsed to keep typing out Gyokores!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Nothing new, so I'm a bitch a bit here.

Its a bit strange to me why some people wonder why a lot of supporters are so unhappy with the club.

I mean seriously, lets just try and be neutral for a bit, I ask, is there a club in the UK more tone deaf than us currently?

I mean just consider the current scenario we find ourselves where:

Eze, Palace's star player who not only delivered most of the season but on their biggest night ever, is being excluded from their marketing campaign apparently because he's been unsettled by our interest.....

Goku, facing sanctions and threats from Sporting, seeing as they're not honouring their word to let him leave and come to us after agreeing to take a paycut and not invoke the penalty clause...


And then, Noni Madueke, a player which the fanbase never coveted despite being in our face regularly, a player who's already flattening at such a young age, a player who has made no sacrifice or done nothing to ingratiate himself with us, this player, yes this player, is the one likely to be announced as our marquee attacker after about 7 days of interest.....


I mean, come on, we have it on record Eze is a gooner and actually shed tears when we let him go, he refers to it as his saddest moment....while Noni, well see him smiling here about being a Londoner and joining the biggest club in London

https://x.com/CFCBlues_com/status/1943430145458737468/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1943430145458737468&currentTweetUser=CFCBlues_com


Honestly, I think describing our suits as tone deaf, is the nicest possible thing we can say about them, and all things considered, they deserve more than the blowback they are getting already for the silly way they are prioritising and lining up their decisions.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think you do have to question the club when it comes to Goku.

We are quibbling over 5m fucking euros but willing to give Chelsea £50m for Madueke who is a backup.

Just get the main deal done ffs

[Mac76]

I think you do have to question the club when it comes to Goku.

We are quibbling over 5m fucking euros but willing to give Chelsea £50m for Madueke who is a backup.

Just get the main deal done ffs

100%, came here to say the same thing

If he played for Chelsea we'd probably be happy to pay £80m for him

Just get it done ffs and put him out of his misery

[Mac76]

Nothing new, so I'm a bitch a bit here.

Its a bit strange to me why some people wonder why a lot of supporters are so unhappy with the club.

I mean seriously, lets just try and be neutral for a bit, I ask, is there a club in the UK more tone deaf than us currently?

I mean just consider the current scenario we find ourselves where:

Eze, Palace's star player who not only delivered most of the season but on their biggest night ever, is being excluded from their marketing campaign apparently because he's been unsettled by our interest.....

Goku, facing sanctions and threats from Sporting, seeing as they're not honouring their word to let him leave and come to us after agreeing to take a paycut and not invoke the penalty clause...


And then, Noni Madueke, a player which the fanbase never coveted despite being in our face regularly, a player who's already flattening at such a young age, a player who has made no sacrifice or done nothing to ingratiate himself with us, this player, yes this player, is the one likely to be announced as our marquee attacker after about 7 days of interest.....


I mean, come on, we have it on record Eze is a gooner and actually shed tears when we let him go, he refers to it as his saddest moment....while Noni, well see him smiling here about being a Londoner and joining the biggest club in London

https://x.com/CFCBlues_com/status/1943430145458737468/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1943430145458737468¤tTwee tUser=CFCBlues_com


Honestly, I think describing our suits as tone deaf, is the nicest possible thing we can say about them, and all things considered, they deserve more than the blowback they are getting already for the silly way they are prioritising and lining up their decisions.

Totally agree with this too

[HCZ_Reborn]

Henry Winter of the Telegraph reporting we’ve pretty much reached a fee

The Sporting chairman Frederico Varandas was a bit of a hard arse over Pedro Porro when Spurs wanted to buy him

End of the day, are they going to really let Gyokeres rot in the reserves for three years.

Comparing this to Madueke I think doesn’t make a lot of sense as the sticking point is how much money Sporting get from us up front and how much of the money is guaranteed rather than part of minimum appearance clauses etc. I think Madueke is largely going to be made up of adds on, and it’s largely so Chelsea can satisfy FFP conditions (though it does pain me that we seem to be bailing Chelsea out when it comes to problems of their own making).

I think likely both moves going to be completed next week, I don’t want Gyokeres but Sesko is going nowhere and we need a striker so I guess we have to take this massive risk, but will all be for naught if we don’t sign someone like Eze in the creative role otherwise I think Gyokeres will spend most of his time being crowded out. I personally don’t like what he’s doing at Sporting anyway, I think it smacks of desperation which I don’t like and if a player was acting like that at Arsenal we’d all be horrified.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Interesting from Perry Groves on talksport:

“My sources tell me, and I’m not making this up, Viktor Gyokores was a gooner as a little kid. He’s always supported Arsenal and it’s well documented that he wants to come to us”

[Mac76]

So both him and Eze are gooners but we're messing about over loose change

If Arteta fails to land both these players then he's going to be surprised at the amount of negativity tbh

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Interesting from Perry Groves on talksport:

“My sources tell me, and I’m not making this up, Viktor Gyokores was a gooner as a little kid. He’s always supported Arsenal and it’s well documented that he wants to come to us”

Now it makes sense why we're treating him the way we are.

Effing tone deaf club.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yep, we need to stop pissing about playing hard ball and just get these deals done if we really want the players.

I think in other windows the fans wouldn’t be so bothered but there is so much riding on this one being right that no one will find failure acceptable.

[KSE Comedy Club]

In other news, Villa have put a £100m price tag on Watkins

:lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ornstein says we're close on Gyokeres.

Which is what we had last Sunday really.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Ornstein says we're close on Gyokeres.

Which is what we had last Sunday really.

I think this is the final part of the saga though

[Marc Overmars]

If it’s from Orny then it’s most likely done and dusted.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think this is the final part of the saga though

The final frontier?, will Arteta meet his half brother who thinks he’s found God (quite literally)

[KSE Comedy Club]

The final frontier?, will Arteta meet his half brother who thinks he’s found God (quite literally)

Maybe, time will tell

[Mac76]

The final frontier?, will Arteta meet his half brother who thinks he’s found God (quite literally)

A Star Trek reference...

...damn I might actually have to compliment you on something... :(

[Marc Overmars]

Gyokeres deal in place. Apparently his agent waived his cut and that moved the deal along quickly.

[Mac76]

Gyokeres deal in place. Apparently his agent waived his cut and that moved the deal along quickly.

:pray:

[Marc Overmars]

Mosquera deal is in the works too. Would indicate that Kiwior will be moved on, although after the way he filled in for Gabriel I’d be inclined to keep him around and not spend money on the defence again.

If we can land Eze to cap this window off, you’d have to say this summer would have been a big statement of intent for the club and the ambition to finally win a title. Would also suggest that if Arteta fails again then it’s likely he could be given the boot, don’t think Berta is the kind of sporting director that will put his name to ongoing projects that never bear fruit.

[Mac76]

I don't think Mosquera joining means Kiwior moving on, as you say he provides good cover for Gabriel as well as being passable at LB against lower calibre opposition (he's certainly better at LB than Cala)

and I suspect Mosquera, while he can play in multiple positions, is seen as mainly a Saliba cover

[Mac76]

Another Chelsea signing :lol:

https://dailycannon.com/2025/07/arsenal-washington-signing-confirmed/

[Mac76]

BTW if the club has any sense at all (which remains questionable) they will hold off announcing Madueke until they can announce Gyokeres or Eze first, or otherwise at the same time

[KSE Comedy Club]

Supposedly forest have served spurs with legal papers over the Gibbs-White thing

[HCZ_Reborn]

Supposedly forest have served spurs with legal papers over the Gibbs-White thing

:haha:

[IBK]

Honestly - I find the bed-wetting re Madueke pathetic. I get that fans are nervous about other transfer business, but the guy is not shit, and £48M plus add ons is the going rate for an established EPL player. Who gives a fuck if he's from Chelsea...he has been bought as back up and I can't see the real issue with this.

I was a bit disenchanted with our transfer business a few weeks ago, but we are getting things done. The Gyokores noise over the weekend was self-evidently just that...noise and we will get this done.

I'll be disappointed if we don't sign Eze but 'Areta out' over our transfer business (I include the probable deals here) as at mid July? WTF???

[HCZ_Reborn]

Honestly - I find the bed-wetting re Madueke pathetic. I get that fans are nervous about other transfer business, but the guy is not shit, and £48M plus add ons is the going rate for an established EPL player. Who gives a fuck if he's from Chelsea...he has been bought as back up and I can't see the real issue with this.

I was a bit disenchanted with our transfer business a few weeks ago, but we are getting things done. The Gyokores noise over the weekend was self-evidently just that...noise and we will get this done.

I'll be disappointed if we don't sign Eze but 'Areta out' over our transfer business (I include the probable deals here) as at mid July? WTF???

100% agree

[Letters]

I'll be disappointed if we don't sign Eze but 'Areta out' over our transfer business (I include the probable deals here) as at mid July? WTF???
A month ago I thought some of the rhetoric on here was a bit silly. The dust of the previous season had only just settled.
The longer things go on though the more nervous people will get - we do have "previous" for this sort of prevarication.
That said, it does seem like we are getting things done now so I'm a little more optimistic than I was.

[KSE Comedy Club]

A month ago I thought some of the rhetoric on here was a bit silly. The dust of the previous season had only just settled.
The longer things go on though the more nervous people will get - we do have "previous" for this sort of prevarication.
That said, it does seem like we are getting things done now so I'm a little more optimistic than I was.

Deffo this.

I know I was being hasty with my daily posting but historically we have been there too many times in the past where we have been let down.

Initially the Madueke transfer was annoying but he’s a decent player and when he pulls on the shirt he will get full support I’m sure.

Berta has been a huge difference maker in our plans this summer though (which I said he would be a game changer) and we seem like we are showing the correct level of intent.

I’m really looking forward to this season now, I hope we also get Eze over the line, and who knows, if Trossard goes we could even see a late attempt at Rodrygo too :shrug:

[IBK]

Deffo this.

I know I was being hasty with my daily posting but historically we have been there too many times in the past where we have been let down.

Initially the Madueke transfer was annoying but he’s a decent player and when he pulls on the shirt he will get full support I’m sure.

Berta has been a huge difference maker in our plans this summer though (which I said he would be a game changer) and we seem like we are showing the correct level of intent.

I’m really looking forward to this season now, I hope we also get Eze over the line, and who knows, if Trossard goes we could even see a late attempt at Rodrygo too :shrug:

Yep...our frustration was understandable given past transfer seasons, but things are now looking good. If we manage to get Eze this will count as a great - and efficient transfer period. Who'd have thought this even a couple of weeks ago?

[Letters]

Initially the Madueke transfer was annoying but he’s a decent player and when he pulls on the shirt he will get full support I’m sure.
Asked a Chelsea supporting mate about him. He said:


He's had plenty of chances at Chelsea but he has never shone like Palmer or Pedro - positives he's quick and he does bundle the ball in the net a bit, negatives he generally puts his head down and runs at speed into defenders or off the pitch, he can't control the ball, he doesn't look up before passing, he often shoots wide, he's never tackled, if he does track back he'll commit a foul

:lol: <_<

He said he's better than Sterling though. He had bloody better be!

[Marc Overmars]

So a headless chicken then…

In all seriousness I’m not really of the opinion that Madueke will be hit here. Obviously hope to be proven wrong so we shall see.

[Mac76]

Deffo this.

I know I was being hasty with my daily posting but historically we have been there too many times in the past where we have been let down.

Initially the Madueke transfer was annoying but he’s a decent player and when he pulls on the shirt he will get full support I’m sure.

Berta has been a huge difference maker in our plans this summer though (which I said he would be a game changer) and we seem like we are showing the correct level of intent.

I’m really looking forward to this season now, I hope we also get Eze over the line, and who knows, if Trossard goes we could even see a late attempt at Rodrygo too :shrug:

Surprised to see you cave in so much, you've been talking a lot of sense so far

I'm far from satisfied, while I think the defensive signings were necessary, we have definitely overpaid for Madueke who should have been no more than £40m, also unless we also get both Gyok and Eze (neither of which are official yet) or at the very least Gyok and Rodrygo, it will be an underwhelming window for most fans I think

I'm reading Spuds are in for Eze plus Liverpool might go for Mateta, which means Palace would be more reluctant to sell Eze - we need to pay up and get on with that signing

Either way, Madueke will be on very thin ice with the fans, not least because we overpaid for him (something people like Arteta never seem to bear in mind when spending too much money on players)

[IBK]

Surprised to see you cave in so much, you've been talking a lot of sense so far

I'm far from satisfied, while I think the defensive signings were necessary, we have definitely overpaid for Madueke who should have been no more than £40m, also unless we also get both Gyok and Eze (neither of which are official yet) or at the very least Gyok and Rodrygo, it will be an underwhelming window for most fans I think

I'm reading Spuds are in for Eze plus Liverpool might go for Mateta, which means Palace would be more reluctant to sell Eze - we need to pay up and get on with that signing

Either way, Madueke will be on very thin ice with the fans, not least because we overpaid for him (something people like Arteta never seem to bear in mind when spending too much money on players)

Unless the Madueke signing prevents us from making any further forward additions, £8M (on your figure) difference for Madueke is neither here nor there. In any event - we have not (IMO) paid more than the current going rate for an EPL player. I'm not arguing that he is the second coming, but sometimes I think the club can't win. What are fans expecting for essentially a Saka backup, and why would a so-called top tier player be prepared to come in in a supporting role? Would fans prefer we took the risk in an untried and untested cheaper player from abroad? Buying a teenager isn't sensible when we have Nwaneri, but neither did Ethan show consistency as a back-up (understandable) in the Saka position - particularly when other teams had worked him out.

We are getting Gyokores, so I'm taking this as read.

We also need defensive backup - particularly for Saliba, so Mosquera makes good sense.

So we seem to be down to not signing Eze (yet), or similar as the reason to beat on the club now? From where I am sitting it hasn't been confirmed that we are not doing further business here...Besides which, where is the evidence that Madueke is instead of an Eze, or has prevented this?

[Mac76]

Unless the Madueke signing prevents us from making any further forward additions, £8M (on your figure) difference for Madueke is neither here nor there. In any event - we have not (IMO) paid more than the current going rate for an EPL player. I'm not arguing that he is the second coming, but sometimes I think the club can't win. What are fans expecting for essentially a Saka backup, and why would a so-called top tier player be prepared to come in in a supporting role? Would fans prefer we took the risk in an untried and untested cheaper player from abroad? Buying a teenager isn't sensible when we have Nwaneri, but neither did Ethan show consistency as a back-up (understandable) in the Saka position - particularly when other teams had worked him out.

We are getting Gyokores, so I'm taking this as read.

We also need defensive backup - particularly for Saliba, so Mosquera makes good sense.

So we seem to be down to not signing Eze (yet), or similar as the reason to beat on the club now? From where I am sitting it hasn't been confirmed that we are not doing further business here...Besides which, where is the evidence that Madueke is instead of an Eze, or has prevented this?

we're paying a reported £50m for Madueke plus possibly £2m add-ons, so that's £12m more than we should have IMO

My understanding is that Chelsea HAVE to sell players to make sure they can register some of their new signings for the CL, so we have them totally over a barrel here - plus why are we prepared to just pay full whack for Chelsea players when we put at risk other deals - like Gyok and Eze - which are much more important, by haggling over relative loose change?

If it was Cunha, Gibbs-White or Kudus I'd say £50m was more reasonable, but even Chelsea fans aren't sorry Madueke is going, so that should tell its own story don't you think and again point to his needing to be cheaper?

and where's your evidence that paying £12m more for Madueke doesn't put e.g. the Eze deal at risk - surely it does if we're trying to recoup the overpayment for Madueke by skimping on Eze...?

I've no issue with the Mosquera signing, as my post to which you replied says, I'm happy with the defensive signings

and I'm certainly not assuming Gyokeres until it's officially done, though it certainly does seem close

[IBK]

There's no way Gyokores isn't getting done.

I understood that the fee for Madueke was £48M plus £4M add ons. As far as I am concerned, if Arteta rates Madueke as back up I'm cool with that. Clearly what we paid met the Arsenal's valuation, so for me that's the end of it. I couldn't give a shit what Chelsea fans think. Football is full of examples where players improve in a different environment! If people are losing their shit because of a perception that we paid a bit more than we could have haggled for then my view remains that this is a bit pathetic. Plus Arteta clearly wanted the player in before heading off to the Far East.

I don't have to provide evidence to prove a negative - re an Eze or similar deal. It's not me getting exorcised about a reasonably routine bit of transfer business with Madueke. if the transfer window closes without us signing an Eze or similar I will concede that its been undewhelming. Not now.

[Mac76]

There's no way Gyokores isn't getting done.


As i said it's highly likely but until it's announced it's not done


I understood that the fee for Madueke was £48M plus £4M add ons. As far as I am concerned, if Arteta rates Madueke as back up I'm cool with that. Clearly what we paid met the Arsenal's valuation, so for me that's the end of it. I couldn't give a shit what Chelsea fans think. Football is full of examples where players improve in a different environment! If people are losing their shit because of a perception that we paid a bit more than we could have haggled for then my view remains that this is a bit pathetic. Plus Arteta clearly wanted the player in before heading off to the Far East.


Well quite, so it's £52m which is £12m - not £8m as you said - more than the £40m (in total) which I would find acceptable for a not-highly-rated Chelsea reject who, as you say, is only a backup. For us not even to haggle over the price isn't acceptable, and inexplicable tbh unless you accept it's Arteta waving his dick around having failed to get his preferred striker.


I don't have to provide evidence to prove a negative - re an Eze or similar deal.

It's pretty basic maths to realise that you more you pay for one player, the less you have to spend on others


if the transfer window closes without us signing an Eze or similar I will concede that its been undewhelming. Not now.

Well as i said in my original post: "unless we also get both Gyok and Eze (neither of which are official yet) or at the very least Gyok and Rodrygo, it will be an underwhelming window for most fans I think"

[IBK]

Funny how on the one hand fans say that Arsenal should just pay what the selling club wants to get the job done, but on the other they bleat over a perception that we have not played hard ball with a transfer fee :wacko: Anyway, how do you know that Arsenal made no attempt to negotiate the Madueke fee? This would run counter to what we know about how Arsenal does business...

And your basic maths point is pretty irrelevant really. Whether the Madueke fee affects other transfers depends what funds are available to the club to spend.

[IBK]

...its being reported that arsenal are set to make a formal approach to Palace this week...apparently we want to understand if a deal is possible away from Eze's release clause.

[HCZ_Reborn]

...its being reported that arsenal are set to make a formal approach to Palace this week...apparently we want to understand if a deal is possible away from Eze's release clause.

My understanding (again speculative reports) is that we will dangle Reiss Nelson in front of them

[Mac76]

Funny how on the one hand fans say that Arsenal should just pay what the selling club wants to get the job done, but on the other they bleat over a perception that we have not played hard ball with a transfer fee

... the crucial difference being that we absolutely MUST get a good striker and Eze is a quality signing which anyone with eyes would like to see at Arsenal - in other words they, in terms of the specific players, are much higher priorities than a suspect Chelsea reject - so in terms of bargaining we have got it the wrong way around



Anyway, how do you know that Arsenal made no attempt to negotiate the Madueke fee? This would run counter to what we know about how Arsenal does business...

because all the signs from reputable sources are that we are paying what Chelsea wanted hence the fact we got it done in a week basically, unlike Gyokeres who's taken two months despite being desperate to play for us and Eze who is taking much longer also.


And your basic maths point is pretty irrelevant really.

That looks like an HCZ type of 'irrelevant' which means you've no credible answer so you just dismiss it :lol:


Whether the Madueke fee affects other transfers depends what funds are available to the club to spend.

sorry but :haha:

[Marc Overmars]

All negotiations have moving parts and are never the same, you can’t compare each deal. The most important thing is that the player signs and that’s what we’re getting done.

Gyokeres has taken longer because Sporting didn’t want to play ball, probably because the player himself put their nose out of joint by going on strike.

Madueke was done quickly because we apparently have a good relationship with Chelsea at board level and the clubs valued the player pretty much the same. We can scoff at the fee but look at what players are going for now especially from PL to PL club. 50m is basically 20m 10 years ago.

[Mac76]

So there's an additional sticking point with Gyokeres apparently, relating to the terms of the add-ons

This is why I've not been premature about it being done, hopefully it's just a bit of posturing by Sporting but ffs Arsenal don't mess this up over some loose change please

[Marc Overmars]

Newcastle in talks to sign Hugo Ekitike. Wonder what that could mean for Isak, would be quite horrific if he ends up at Liverpool.

[Mac76]

Newcastle in talks to sign Hugo Ekitike. Wonder what that could mean for Isak, would be quite horrific if he ends up at Liverpool.

Maybe it's just to give them more firepower, Callum Wilson's not at the right level any more

[IBK]

... the crucial difference being that we absolutely MUST get a good striker and Eze is a quality signing which anyone with eyes would like to see at Arsenal - in other words they, in terms of the specific players, are much higher priorities than a suspect Chelsea reject - so in terms of bargaining we have got it the wrong way around




because all the signs from reputable sources are that we are paying what Chelsea wanted hence the fact we got it done in a week basically, unlike Gyokeres who's taken two months despite being desperate to play for us and Eze who is taking much longer also.



That looks like an HCZ type of 'irrelevant' which means you've no credible answer so you just dismiss it :lol:



sorry but :haha:

OK I'm bored, so...

It makes me smile how fans with no inside knowledge at all make judgments about how we approach transfer business in such a black and white fashion based on their perceptions of our needs. I get that we need a striker of course, but making assumptions about the negotiations for Madueke and those for Gyokeres, and slamming the club for their alleged different approach in these is IMHO misguided and unjustified. Firstly, what is key in any negotiation is what Arsenal's valuation of a player is. It has been reported that the club believe they have secured a ‘great deal’ with Chelsea and are excited by the versatility that Madueke possesses. Also, that the structure of the Madueke deal - £48.5 million up front, likely in instalments, with £3.5 million in performance related add-ons’ on top of this - is such that it allows Arsenal to move for Eze.

If you look at Madueke as a cheaper, versatile option with potential to improve in a far healthier environment and with an excellent coach in Arteta than say Rogrigo - that retains the club's ability to move for Eze - the deal starts to look very different.

Then you have the selling club. While many Gooners don't want Arsenal to do business with Chelsea (I couldn't care less who we deal with if we get the player the manager wants), the fact is that we have a good relationship with them, and it is quite possible - particularly given that they were keen on selling him - that they simply didn't go the traditional route of slapping an overvaluation on him and then having to be negotiated down. A quick deal does not necessarily mean that we overpaid, and I emphasise again that Arsenal do not have a track record of overpaying for players - quite the opposite. I'm sorry, but the theory I have seen that we somehow were open to doing Chelsea a favour is ridiculous. We wanted the player, the deal was in line with our valuation, and we landed him.

Turning to Gyokores, the situation is clearly different in that we have a valuation that Sporting has been unwilling to meet. Sporting is a notoriously difficult club to deal with and this, not adopting a different approach to Madueke, is the reason why matters have become protracted.

Then the perceived merits of the 2 players. We lack a striker for sure, but this need was hugely exacerbated last season by the long term injuries to Jesus and Havertz. We are not a team that depends on a 30 goal a season striker - I have argued previously that 15-20 goals would be sufficient to elevate us to where we need to get to. In terms of importance, you could turn things around and argue that of all our injuries last season - that of our best player, Saka, was the most significant reaon why we didn't win silverware. Madueke is clearly being brought in to relieve the burden on Saka, potentially to provide an option on the LW also; to add unpredictablility and pace to our team and to try to mitigate against key injuries next season. There is an argument that this is equally as important as bringing in a striker. To be clear, I make these points not as a debate on the merits of Gyokores or Madueke per se - but to counter your assumption about priorities as regards the needs of this team. Remember, I am not for a moment suggesting that buying a striker is not a top priority. I am simply countering the criticism the club is getting for the Madueke deal.

As for your dismissal of my response to your 'basic maths' point, I am surprised at this because it is so simple. If what we paid for Madueke does not prevent us from signing Eze what exactly is your issue?

[IBK]

All negotiations have moving parts and are never the same, you can’t compare each deal. The most important thing is that the player signs and that’s what we’re getting done.

Gyokeres has taken longer because Sporting didn’t want to play ball, probably because the player himself put their nose out of joint by going on strike.

Madueke was done quickly because we apparently have a good relationship with Chelsea at board level and the clubs valued the player pretty much the same. We can scoff at the fee but look at what players are going for now especially from PL to PL club. 50m is basically 20m 10 years ago.

You basically sum up what I am trying to say much more succinctly than my post mate, but like I said I'm a bit bored today :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

OK I'm bored, so...

It makes me smile how fans with no inside knowledge at all make judgments about how we approach transfer business in such a black and white fashion based on their perceptions of our needs. I get that we need a striker of course, but making assumptions about the negotiations for Madueke and those for Gyokeres, and slamming the club for their alleged different approach in these is IMHO misguided and unjustified. Firstly, what is key in any negotiation is what Arsenal's valuation of a player is. It has been reported that the club believe they have secured a ‘great deal’ with Chelsea and are excited by the versatility that Madueke possesses. Also, that the structure of the Madueke deal - £48.5 million up front, likely in instalments, with £3.5 million in performance related add-ons’ on top of this - is such that it allows Arsenal to move for Eze.

If you look at Madueke as a cheaper, versatile option with potential to improve in a far healthier environment and with an excellent coach in Arteta than say Rogrigo - that retains the club's ability to move for Eze - the deal starts to look very different.

Then you have the selling club. While many Gooners don't want Arsenal to do business with Chelsea (I couldn't care less who we deal with if we get the player the manager wants), the fact is that we have a good relationship with them, and it is quite possible - particularly given that they were keen on selling him - that they simply didn't go the traditional route of slapping an overvaluation on him and then having to be negotiated down. A quick deal does not necessarily mean that we overpaid, and I emphasise again that Arsenal do not have a track record of overpaying for players - quite the opposite. I'm sorry, but the theory I have seen that we somehow were open to doing Chelsea a favour is ridiculous. We wanted the player, the deal was in line with our valuation, and we landed him.

Turning to Gyokores, the situation is clearly different in that we have a valuation that Sporting has been unwilling to meet. Sporting is a notoriously difficult club to deal with and this, not adopting a different approach to Madueke, is the reason why matters have become protracted.

Then the perceived merits of the 2 players. We lack a striker for sure, but this need was hugely exacerbated last season by the long term injuries to Jesus and Havertz. We are not a team that depends on a 30 goal a season striker - I have argued previously that 15-20 goals would be sufficient to elevate us to where we need to get to. In terms of importance, you could turn things around and argue that of all our injuries last season - that of our best player, Saka, was the most significant reaon why we didn't win silverware. Madueke is clearly being brought in to relieve the burden on Saka, potentially to provide an option on the LW also; to add unpredictablility and pace to our team and to try to mitigate against key injuries next season. There is an argument that this is equally as important as bringing in a striker. To be clear, I make these points not as a debate on the merits of Gyokores or Madueke per se - but to counter your assumption about priorities as regards the needs of this team. Remember, I am not for a moment suggesting that buying a striker is not a top priority. I am simply countering the criticism the club is getting for the Madueke deal.

As for your dismissal of my response to your 'basic maths' point, I am surprised at this because it is so simple. If what we paid for Madueke does not prevent us from signing Eze what exactly is your issue?

I’m a little resentful of the fact that we have good relations with Chelsea, but that’s because I despise the club, I think the club even more than Man City represents everything I despise in football and I’d enjoy nothing more than to seeing them get relegated and liquidated. However putting my rational hat on, we have a club that is abundant in footballers and if one of them meets the profile of what the club is looking for, then I can see the validity of us doing business for him.
The failure of some people on here is a failure to appreciate the difference between buying a player that the club either wants to sell or is ok with selling, with one the club distinctly doesn’t want to sell (even if the player themselves wants to come). Maybe where the club perhaps doesn’t always get it right, is that we sell the club to the prospective signing and believe that will put pressure on the selling club. I don’t think it does always work like that, and to be honest it’s massively hypocritical given we reported Chelsea to the FA over “tapping up” Ashley Cole, yet we seem now to have agreed personal terms with players before we’ve even approached the club.
We are far from alone in that regard, and I think it’s about the changing nature of how football transfers work but still.
I think ultimately there are people here who will not be satisfied no matter what we do, I don’t want Gyokeres im clear on that fact but from a dispassionate perspective, it has to be said the club operated quite efficiently in that it tried to get a deal for Sesko but realised this wasn’t going to work and the player himself wasn’t going to make waves to force the move so we moved on to our secondary target. There’s no doubt last summer and the January transfer window did not do wonders for the clubs perception of being competent, but I really think it’s hard to argue that we’ve not operated quite efficiently thus far this summer which doesn’t fit with the complaints about how the club has been sitting on its hands, we are quite possibly going to be in a position where six summer signings are in place by the time pre-season begins.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Personally I think it’s too early to pass final judgement on this summer transfer either positively or negatively, things could still go south but I do think the club seems to have at least tried to make good on its promises.

I’m not totally without understanding for people that have been jittery and trumping the “here we go again” line. Actions speak louder than words, and we all agree that what we can now probably call last season was largely a damp squib with the Real Madrid tie being the one unblemished positive in what was otherwise a great deal of stuttering and stalling.

However the reactions to the Madueke transfer have been childishly pathetic, I don’t mean so much here I mean in the other social media spaces. Imagine signing a petition or daubing graffiti on a mural over it, and for what? Because this signing might get announced before others, because people think we’ve overpaid (even though it’s largely very much in keeping with the going rate for young English talent) and other acts of childish petulance.

Whatever I say about anyone here, people come here and rant and that rant might prove to be founded or it might just be precipitous. But no one here is doing performative nonsense for influence peddling. I know it’s a low bar but in an online world where so much is done for “clicks”. This dusty old place, because there’s so few of us works far better as a venting vessel because it’s not going to influence mass toxic behaviour

[IBK]

I agree with both your posts. I was one of those getting jittery about our transfers a few weeks ago - with some justification given the tyre fire of the past 2 transfer windows. But the situation now is very different. If as I expect we land Gyokores then we are IMO nearly there as regards the business I would reasonably have expected the club to do, and we seem to have been reasonably effective in landing our targets and avoiding a damaging situation re our striker pursuit. I really want Eze - and think that this (or an equivalent) is necessary for our Summer transfer business to be regarded as a complete success, but I now have more faith than I did in our ability to get this done also.

Like you I feel that the Madueke hysteria in some quarters is embarrassing.

[KSE Comedy Club]

So there's an additional sticking point with Gyokeres apparently, relating to the terms of the add-ons

This is why I've not been premature about it being done, hopefully it's just a bit of posturing by Sporting but ffs Arsenal don't mess this up over some loose change please

It’s virtually there, other reports have stated he has completed his medical at Arsenal yesterday

[HCZ_Reborn]

Bayern Munich have had a bid of over 58 million rejected for Luiz Diaz

[Marc Overmars]

Maybe they’ll take Trossard from us instead.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Yeah that's nowhere near enough for him. I wouldn't be surprised if we did sell him, but not for that. That makes Nunez's situation interesting as well as we would be incredibly short up front if we sold him, which was surely happening prior to Jota.

We are being increasingly linked with Rodrygo, but even then we'd need at least one other. Isak would be nice, but unlikely and I just can't see it.

We could do with a centre back tbh **I forgot we're seemingly still getting Guehi. We'll need one next summer when Konate goes then

[Marc Overmars]

Ornstein is reporting that Liverpool have approached Newcastle for Isak with a 120m deal on the table.

Damn.

[IBK]

Ornstein is reporting that Liverpool have approached Newcastle for Isak with a 120m deal on the table.

Damn.

:crying:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Oooo.

I can't see that being enough, but he doesn't tend to float things unless there's something to it.

I still can't see it, but whilst there's hope

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

OK I'm bored, so...

It makes me smile how fans with no inside knowledge at all make judgments about how we approach transfer business in such a black and white fashion based on their perceptions of our needs. I get that we need a striker of course, but making assumptions about the negotiations for Madueke and those for Gyokeres, and slamming the club for their alleged different approach in these is IMHO misguided and unjustified. Firstly, what is key in any negotiation is what Arsenal's valuation of a player is. It has been reported that the club believe they have secured a ‘great deal’ with Chelsea and are excited by the versatility that Madueke possesses. Also, that the structure of the Madueke deal - £48.5 million up front, likely in instalments, with £3.5 million in performance related add-ons’ on top of this - is such that it allows Arsenal to move for Eze.

If you look at Madueke as a cheaper, versatile option with potential to improve in a far healthier environment and with an excellent coach in Arteta than say Rogrigo - that retains the club's ability to move for Eze - the deal starts to look very different.

Then you have the selling club. While many Gooners don't want Arsenal to do business with Chelsea (I couldn't care less who we deal with if we get the player the manager wants), the fact is that we have a good relationship with them, and it is quite possible - particularly given that they were keen on selling him - that they simply didn't go the traditional route of slapping an overvaluation on him and then having to be negotiated down. A quick deal does not necessarily mean that we overpaid, and I emphasise again that Arsenal do not have a track record of overpaying for players - quite the opposite. I'm sorry, but the theory I have seen that we somehow were open to doing Chelsea a favour is ridiculous. We wanted the player, the deal was in line with our valuation, and we landed him.

Turning to Gyokores, the situation is clearly different in that we have a valuation that Sporting has been unwilling to meet. Sporting is a notoriously difficult club to deal with and this, not adopting a different approach to Madueke, is the reason why matters have become protracted.

Then the perceived merits of the 2 players. We lack a striker for sure, but this need was hugely exacerbated last season by the long term injuries to Jesus and Havertz. We are not a team that depends on a 30 goal a season striker - I have argued previously that 15-20 goals would be sufficient to elevate us to where we need to get to. In terms of importance, you could turn things around and argue that of all our injuries last season - that of our best player, Saka, was the most significant reaon why we didn't win silverware. Madueke is clearly being brought in to relieve the burden on Saka, potentially to provide an option on the LW also; to add unpredictablility and pace to our team and to try to mitigate against key injuries next season. There is an argument that this is equally as important as bringing in a striker. To be clear, I make these points not as a debate on the merits of Gyokores or Madueke per se - but to counter your assumption about priorities as regards the needs of this team. Remember, I am not for a moment suggesting that buying a striker is not a top priority. I am simply countering the criticism the club is getting for the Madueke deal.

As for your dismissal of my response to your 'basic maths' point, I am surprised at this because it is so simple. If what we paid for Madueke does not prevent us from signing Eze what exactly is your issue?

Interesting views, but there is little you have said that deflates any of the arguments against this deal (and more importantly something you avoid saying).

Now if you'll allow me to focus on the thing you have not said, which is usually the first comment anyone makes about any transfer, but surprisingly for this particular transfer it's the last ( and TBF, most supporters of this deal have done the same thing of conveniently excluding this talking point).

Are you happy to pay £50m for Madueke, is he worth it? Again, I am asking of your valuationof the player and not AFC, like you keep falling back on. Is he worth £50m and are you happy to make a proper footballing argument that he is.

If the answer is "yes", then supporters of this deal would do better stressing that point....as this is the first transfer I have come across where not one single gooner, in fact not one single Chav, believes he is worth the money we are paying.

Even The Havertz and Pepe deals had people who were glad to stake their reputations that they were worth the money, but not one single person of note has stated this is a good/great deal.

To be clear, your argument so far has only said, it's a good deal because it allows us to rest Saka. Well if that's the case we could have gone all out to get another 20 players that would allow us to do the same thing for less than that, probably even some from the women's team (I'm sorry, I couldn't help it).

So really, lets just go back to the basics, is Madueke worth paying £50m for? If so stress that going forward and we'd enjoy your usually brilliant arguments using stats and other things we might have missed; as it would probably help calm naysayers like me down.

Lets not forget that initially, slightly more fans wanted Sesko than Gyokores (at least he won the Skysports poll) and I am pretty sure the fact that a substantial amount of us and majority of pundits feel that Gyokeres is worth the money we are spending on him has calmed those who disliked the deal and player.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ornstein is reporting that Liverpool have approached Newcastle for Isak with a 120m deal on the table.

Damn.

Well it's been reported that they are serious about Ekitike (Newcastle), so it seems they probably expected this.

Like I said in an earlier post, we might as well not turn up next season, absolutely no need at this rate :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Interesting views, but there is little you have said (and more importantly something you avoid saying) that deflates any of the arguments against this deal

Now if you'll allow me to focus on the thing you have not said, which is usually the first comment anyone makes about any transfer, but surprisingly for this particular transfer it's the last ( and TBF, most supporters of this deal have done the same thing of conveniently excluding this talking point).

Are you happy to pay £50m for Madueke, is he worth it? Again, I am asking of your valuationof the player and not AFC, like you keep falling back on. Is he worth £50m and are you happy to make a proper footballing argument that he is.

If the answer is "yes", then you supporters of this deal would do better stressing that point....as this is the first transfer I have come across where not one single gooner, in fact not one single Chav, believes he is worth the money we are paying.

Even The Havertz and Pepe deals had people who were glad to stake their reputations that they were worth the money, but not one single person of note has stated this is a good/great deal.

To be clear, your argument so far has only said, it's a good deal because it allows us to rest Saka. Well if that's the case we could have gone all out to get another 20 players that would allow us to do the same thing for less than that, probably even some from the women's team (I'm sorry, I couldn't help it).

So really, lets just go back to the basics, is Madueke worth paying £50m for? If so stress that going forward and we'd enjoy your usually brilliant arguments using stats and other things we might have missed; as it would probably help calm naysayers like me down.

Lets not forget that initially, slightly more fans wanted Sesko than Gyokores (at least he won the Skysports poll) and I am pretty sure the fact that a substantial amount of us and majority of pundits feel that Gyokeres is worth the money we are spending on him has calmed those who disliked the deal and player.

Let me answer for myself

Would I go for the player myself no. If we wanted cover for Saka, it would have been possible to get someone for cheaper than that on the continent.

But then let me ask you a question. Do you think the furore against the signing is justified, given that it is the standard asking price for someone who is whatever else a first team player for a club that got top four football. And given what players like Kudus, Elanga and what Morgan Gibbs release fee clause apparently was.

It’s recognising that a) he could be a decent squad player for us and b) that’s the going rate you pay for a player with premier league experience.

If there’s evidence it has affected our ability to sign Eze or whoever else we might sign in that position then yes it probably isn’t worth it. But nothing has been reported to that effect.

No one’s asking you to be happy with the transfer, I’m not happy with the Gyokeres transfer. But acting like the club has posted a video on social media of Arteta finger banging your mum, as some fans are doing over this. Is genuinely pathetic

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

My opinion is most of the fans who are extremely upset about this, have probably just used this single transfer to express their anger about Arteta and other things wrong with the club, which I definitely blame no one for doing, as I can't expect everyone to act the same way I do. (the world would be extremely boring)

I also want to speak for myself, by saying, despite how much I have berated him, once he signs, I'll support him like I support any Arsenal player and I really hope he proves me wrong and won't turn out to be an expensive dud.

I also expect 95% of the fans who are honest and don't like the deal like me to do the same.

One thing for sure though, once he's signed, people will move on and be bolder to actually express what they are really upset about, he definitely won't be booed or get the Xhaka treatment.

So I hope we can get back to the real point.....why are we ok with paying good money for someone none of us rates, or better yet no can make a decent footballing argument for, especially seeing as this is not even a last minute deal?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Because in the grand scheme of things, if it doesn’t provide a barrier to who we as a fan base do want to sign and it provides cover for a position where the key player was overused and out for 3 and a half months. I really don’t see the sense in massively bitching about it.

No, signing petitions and going ape shit over the signing for viral video or online content is just utterly pathetic. It’s just an example of the nadir of online culture and fan entitlement. And I wouldn’t mind if these guys were likely to be season ticket holders but half of these Herberts have probably never watched us play live before.

As I say coming on somewhere like here and saying “Arteta is a cunt” (that’s just an example) or whatever else is fine, it’s venting your spleen in a closed off part of the internet. Getting involved in the Twitter swarm?….it just makes our fans look like a bunch of wallies.

Though we wouldn’t be alone in that regard. Liverpool, Chelsea, United….all got their swarms of social media locusts. But frankly I don’t want to be reading an article on Skysports about fan petitions over a single transfer, it’s embarrassing

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ornstein is reporting that Liverpool have approached Newcastle for Isak with a 120m deal on the table.

Damn.

BTW, just realised, that if this is true and Newcastle accept this bid, we'd have lost everyone's preferred striker for Gyokores + Madueke =£125m (I've not even added wages :lol: )....... so again I wonder why some of us are so surprised and annoyed with fans questioning Areta and the clubs judgement when it comes to recruitment.

[Mac76]

why are we ok with paying good money for someone none of rates, or better yet no can make a decent footballing argument for, especially seeing as this is not even a last minute deal?

Well as you say we shouldn't be - I've heard lots of arguments made about cover for Saka etc with which I agree 100%, but as you said earlier none of that explains why we sign THIS player for THAT amount of money

But absolutely I hope people get behind him but just have it as a black mark against Arteta

Ultimately if we still get Eze then we can all move on - if it prevents us from doing so because we've overspent on Madueke then that will be hard to get over

[Mac76]

BTW, just realised, that if this is true and Newcastle accept this bid, we'd have lost everyone's preferred striker for Gyokores + Madueke =£125m (I've not even added wages :lol: )....... so again I wonder why some of us are so surprised and annoyed with fans questioning Areta and the clubs judgement when it comes to recruitment.

yeah I'd accept Gyok and Eze instead of Isak but not Gyok and Madueke

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

yeah I'd accept Gyok and Eze instead of Isak but not Gyok and Madueke

I would too.

Oh and if we do end up signing Eze (which I doubt will happen anymore, especially since Madueke helps fill the homegrown quota), I'd take Eze+Isak over Eze+Gyok+ Madueke.... a bit funny, but isn't when you really think about it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

BTW, just realised, that if this is true and Newcastle accept this bid, we'd have lost everyone's preferred striker for Gyokores + Madueke =£125m (I've not even added wages :lol: )....... so again I wonder why some of us are so surprised and annoyed with fans questioning Areta and the clubs judgement when it comes to recruitment.

And everyone who has replied to you about this has said if Madueke prevents us from signing Eze or someone like that, fine your annoyance is justified. But until such time it just seems frankly performative a lot like the clout seeking online fans.

[Mac76]

And everyone who has replied to you about this has said if Madueke prevents us from signing Eze or someone like that, fine your annoyance is justified. But until such time it just seems frankly performative a lot like the clout seeking online fans.

and yet it was you that was getting so worked up about all the defensive signings specifically because they meant (according to you) that we had less money to spend on attackers... ;)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Madueke apparently earns £50k a week at Chavski. This actually surprises me, especially as he signed a slave like 7 year contract with them.

How much do you guys think we're bumping his salary by....I'd be surprised if it's less than £150k..... anyway it seems my wages argument for the Isak deal might not hold.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ok Isak earns £120k, so it would hold as the highest he could probably bargain for in his new club would be £300k.

Probably one of the reasons Liverpool might not be bothered about the initial outlay that much.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I would too.

Oh and if we do end up signing Eze (which I doubt will happen anymore, especially since Madueke helps fill the homegrown quota), I'd take Eze+Isak over Eze+Gyok+ Madueke.... a bit funny, but isn't when you really think about it.

So your complaint is based on what you think could be the case rather than what you know to be the case

Fair enough, for similar reason I was annoyed at us signing a defender (and I still think it’s absolutely unnecessary…I wanted this to be a defender free window…it’s ridiculous how much we’ve spent on defenders).

But the way you’ve edited this post suggests that no matter what we do, you’ll find something to be upset about. It feels like to me like you decided this club is wholly incompetent and therefore everything it does needs to be appraised through that narrative.

I think this club like any club, makes terrible decisions and good decisions. And anyway, sometimes it’s hard to know which will be which in the immediate aftermath.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11900/13397072/hugo-ekitike-liverpool-to-rival-newcastle-for-eintracht-frankfurt-forward-after-alexander-isak-stance-reiterated

Looks like Isaak going nowhere, and Liverpool instead going after Ekitike

[IBK]

Interesting views, but there is little you have said that deflates any of the arguments against this deal (and more importantly something you avoid saying).

Now if you'll allow me to focus on the thing you have not said, which is usually the first comment anyone makes about any transfer, but surprisingly for this particular transfer it's the last ( and TBF, most supporters of this deal have done the same thing of conveniently excluding this talking point).

Are you happy to pay £50m for Madueke, is he worth it? Again, I am asking of your valuationof the player and not AFC, like you keep falling back on. Is he worth £50m and are you happy to make a proper footballing argument that he is.

If the answer is "yes", then supporters of this deal would do better stressing that point....as this is the first transfer I have come across where not one single gooner, in fact not one single Chav, believes he is worth the money we are paying.

Even The Havertz and Pepe deals had people who were glad to stake their reputations that they were worth the money, but not one single person of note has stated this is a good/great deal.

To be clear, your argument so far has only said, it's a good deal because it allows us to rest Saka. Well if that's the case we could have gone all out to get another 20 players that would allow us to do the same thing for less than that, probably even some from the women's team (I'm sorry, I couldn't help it).

So really, lets just go back to the basics, is Madueke worth paying £50m for? If so stress that going forward and we'd enjoy your usually brilliant arguments using stats and other things we might have missed; as it would probably help calm naysayers like me down.

Lets not forget that initially, slightly more fans wanted Sesko than Gyokores (at least he won the Skysports poll) and I am pretty sure the fact that a substantial amount of us and majority of pundits feel that Gyokeres is worth the money we are spending on him has calmed those who disliked the deal and player.

And there you have it. This whole anti-Madueke thing is about fans' personal valuations of the player. And the thing is that while everyone is entitled to their opinion on value, this opinion is largely uninformed.

I think you have misunderstood both the thrust of my argument and the points I have made to support it. My difficulty is the overblown criticism of the club for completing the Madueke deal and the suggestion that we paid over the odds, and failed to negotiate this in the club's best interests. My opinion is that if we identified the player as having the attributes needed to strengthen our squad (and by all accounts we had been tracking him for some time) - so wanted him - and his price was within the club's valuation and does not prevent us from securing another target then there is nothing to get so exorcised about.

I am not 'supporting' the deal per se, as I am not party to the reasons behind the club's decision. I am merely prepared to give the club the benefit of the doubt. For all fans' previous assertions that we paid over the odds for the likes of White; Ramsdale and Havertz, not to mention the large section who believed that Raya was not worth signing, Arteta proved these to be unfounded. In fact, while the manager has made mistakes at times (no manager hasn't), he has a decent track record in this regard and I am neither going to write Madueke off nor claim that the club has been ripped off by Chelsea for his transfer fee. Like I say I do not care about what Chelsea fans think. they have no idea how the player will perform in a very different environment under a very different manager, in a very different system and team. As for Gooners, there are plenty of moderates and commentators more knowledgable then me who point out that Madueke's stats aren't bad, and see potential in the player.

You say that I have argued that this is a good deal because it allows us to rest Saka. I have not done so. I merely pointed out that finding decent cover for Saka (as well as the matters you have ignored - pace; unpredictability and a potential LW option) might be regarded as equally important as filling the striker position, and that this need might provide some context for the deal.

So to my valuation. The problem with ascribing a personal valuation to any player is that this is hostage to the very factors that I am trying to reason against. To give an example - the prevailing view that all Chelsea 'cast offs' must be duds. To give another that a 'big name' from a celebrated club will most likely succeed at Arsenal. Or another (that very much applies in the case of Madueke) that his value must be lower than more exciting players with whom we have been linked. This might be boring, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Like almost any signing, Madueke might disappoint at Arsenal in which case I will have to accept the view that £50M was too much to pay. Or he might justify his price tag. For now, all I would say that it seems to me, based on his age; profile; that he is an England international and an EPL tried and tested player, and that he had 5 years to go on his deal at Chelsea £50M would seem to be around the going rate for him. Certainly not something to justify what I regard as a gross over reaction to this transfer.

Finally, I want to highlight something that demonstrates how one-sided things can get when transfer business is evaluated. In your later post you speculate that the club must be paying Madueke £150K a week, which to me seems to be clear confirmation bias. As far as I am aware we do not know what his wages are. When it comes to a transfer, the fee is only part of the equation. Wages are an important part of any overall deal. So I don't even think that Madueke's transfer fee can even be evaluated accurately without knowing what he is set to earn. I would be surprised if we are tripling what Madueke earns at Chelsea (remembering that he had 5 years remaining on his deal there). It is more likely that given his previous modest wage there that he will earn a more modest relative wage at Arsenal. If so, then his transfer fee would need to be seen in a different light.

[IBK]

I would too.

Oh and if we do end up signing Eze (which I doubt will happen anymore, especially since Madueke helps fill the homegrown quota), I'd take Eze+Isak over Eze+Gyok+ Madueke.... a bit funny, but isn't when you really think about it.

I don't think Madueke counts as homegrown.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Surprised to see you cave in so much, you've been talking a lot of sense so far

I'm far from satisfied, while I think the defensive signings were necessary, we have definitely overpaid for Madueke who should have been no more than £40m, also unless we also get both Gyok and Eze (neither of which are official yet) or at the very least Gyok and Rodrygo, it will be an underwhelming window for most fans I think

I'm reading Spuds are in for Eze plus Liverpool might go for Mateta, which means Palace would be more reluctant to sell Eze - we need to pay up and get on with that signing

Either way, Madueke will be on very thin ice with the fans, not least because we overpaid for him (something people like Arteta never seem to bear in mind when spending too much money on players)

I’m not caving in, but my problem was with then lack of any action to address problem areas.
I would say that the club are trying to address that now, at least.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

And there you have it. This whole anti-Madueke thing is about fans' personal valuations of the player. And the thing is that while everyone is entitled to their opinion on value, this opinion is largely uninformed.

I think you have misunderstood both the thrust of my argument and the points I have made to support it. My difficulty is the overblown criticism of the club for completing the Madueke deal and the suggestion that we paid over the odds, and failed to negotiate this in the club's best interests. My opinion is that if we identified the player as having the attributes needed to strengthen our squad (and by all accounts we had been tracking him for some time) - so wanted him - and his price was within the club's valuation and does not prevent us from securing another target then there is nothing to get so exorcised about.

I am not 'supporting' the deal per se, as I am not party to the reasons behind the club's decision. I am merely prepared to give the club the benefit of the doubt. For all fans' previous assertions that we paid over the odds for the likes of White; Ramsdale and Havertz, not to mention the large section who believed that Raya was not worth signing, Arteta proved these to be unfounded. In fact, while the manager has made mistakes at times (no manager hasn't), he has a decent track record in this regard and I am neither going to write Madueke off nor claim that the club has been ripped off by Chelsea for his transfer fee. Like I say I do not care about what Chelsea fans think. they have no idea how the player will perform in a very different environment under a very different manager, in a very different system and team. As for Gooners, there are plenty of moderates and commentators more knowledgable then me who point out that Madueke's stats aren't bad, and see potential in the player.

You say that I have argued that this is a good deal because it allows us to rest Saka. I have not done so. I merely pointed out that finding decent cover for Saka (as well as the matters you have ignored - pace; unpredictability and a potential LW option) might be regarded as equally important as filling the striker position, and that this need might provide some context for the deal.

So to my valuation. The problem with ascribing a personal valuation to any player is that this is hostage to the very factors that I am trying to reason against. To give an example - the prevailing view that all Chelsea 'cast offs' must be duds. To give another that a 'big name' from a celebrated club will most likely succeed at Arsenal. Or another (that very much applies in the case of Madueke) that his value must be lower than more exciting players with whom we have been linked. This might be boring, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Like almost any signing, Madueke might disappoint at Arsenal in which case I will have to accept the view that £50M was too much to pay. Or he might justify his price tag. For now, all I would say that it seems to me, based on his age; profile; that he is an England international and an EPL tried and tested player, and that he had 5 years to go on his deal at Chelsea £50M would seem to be around the going rate for him. Certainly not something to justify what I regard as a gross over reaction to this transfer.

Finally, I want to highlight something that demonstrates how one-sided things can get when transfer business is evaluated. In your later post you speculate that the club must be paying Madueke £150K a week, which to me seems to be clear confirmation bias. As far as I am aware we do not know what his wages are. When it comes to a transfer, the fee is only part of the equation. Wages are an important part of any overall deal. So I don't even think that Madueke's transfer fee can even be evaluated accurately without knowing what he is set to earn. I would be surprised if we are tripling what Madueke earns at Chelsea (remembering that he had 5 years remaining on his deal there). It is more likely that given his previous modest wage there that he will earn a more modest relative wage at Arsenal. If so, then his transfer fee would need to be seen in a different light.

So in summary, you want to give the club the benefit of doubt as personally you can't come to an opinion on this signing, or should I say his valuation for some odd reason.

Like I said in an earlier post, a lot of fans are just not being honest with themselves, and this goes for both sides.

I have already stated that the most virulent hatred expressed towards this signing is fueled by other grievances and now some of you that apparently have no issues with the signing, have suddenly lost the ability to evaluate players and state what you think they are worth!

I mean I understand why you might not necessarily have an opinion of a player from the Brazilian league that Arteta wants to recruit, but not one that has been in our face for the last 2 years like Noni. I mean even if you don't , is it wrong that others do and are bold enough to say he isn't worth it in their eyes and express their opinions non-violently?

Also, I'm pretty sure if you heard we wanted to sign Yamal or Musiala you would not sit on the fence the way you are now. Nor did I see this kind of conflict within you on valuations when you earlier complained about our dithering when it came to agreeing a deal on a striker.

Personally I have said this Madueke situation is being overblown. Fans don't want the signing and want the club to look for someone else, but it means nothing as the overwhelming majority will support him once he wears the shirt.

However, if he fails to deliver, rightfully fans will point to the fact that they predicted it and will be able to honestly question their manager and club's decisions. Just like the way some of us predicted in the beginning of last season that our transfer strategy was a fail and we would struggle without the addition of a striker (way before the injuries) and were proved right.

Lastly, if you've not noticed, I'm extremely explicit about my biases and feel no need to sugarcoat or hide them on a faceless internet forum. I clearly stated that we'd be better off recruiting someone from the women's team over Noni, so I believe that should have been the neon sign that declares I am happy to express my bias towards him.

So I am a bit unsure why your last paragraph is built on a premise that I need more reasons to validate the bias especially since I never stated the "club must be paying Madueke £150K a week", seeing as the aim of that particular post was to point out that I was "wrong" about a previous post that claimed that wages means the deal makes less sense.

[Marc Overmars]

New deal for Nwaneri pretty much done.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I don't think Madueke counts as homegrown.

You are right about this.....and I'm pretty surprised. Its clear Arteta really rates this kid.

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/transfer-news/noni-madueke-homegrown-status-confusion-32018831.amp

[Mac76]

Its clear Arteta really rates this kid.



Which in itself makes me worried

He also rated Havertz but only by accident has he turned out to be a half-decent striker, he looked lost in the role Arteta saw for him

He thought Zin was any kind of LB - he isn't

He thought Cala could play LB - he can't

He thought Merino would be good in MF, but he's underwhelmed and really only been useful as an emergency striker - because Arteta neglected our attack for two years

He really really wanted to spend ridiculous amounts on Mudryk

He also really wanted to spend £30m on a backup keeper

He bought Vieira then threw him away like an unwanted toy

He still counts Jesus as a 'striker' when clearly he can't hit a barn door from a yard out unless it's against Palace - when he's fit that is

He wanted Sesko rather than Gyokeres - slightly more marginal decision but most of us agree Gyokeres made more sense

TBF i agree with Norgaard, Zubi and Mosquera but how much is that Arteta and how much Edu/Berta - Zubi I think was certainly mainly sorted by Edu

[IBK]

So in summary, you want to give the club the benefit of doubt as personally you can't come to an opinion on this signing, or should I say his valuation for some odd reason.

Like I said in an earlier post, a lot of fans are just not being honest with themselves, and this goes for both sides.

I have already stated that the most virulent hatred expressed towards this signing is fueled by other grievances and now some of you that apparently have no issues with the signing, have suddenly lost the ability to evaluate players and state what you think they are worth!

I mean I understand why you might not necessarily have an opinion of a player from the Brazilian league that Arteta wants to recruit, but not one that has been in our face for the last 2 years like Noni. I mean even if you don't , is it wrong that others do and are bold enough to say he isn't worth it in their eyes and express their opinions non-violently?

Also, I'm pretty sure if you heard we wanted to sign Yamal or Musiala you would not sit on the fence the way you are now. Nor did I see this kind of conflict within you on valuations when you earlier complained about our dithering when it came to agreeing a deal on a striker.

Personally I have said this Madueke situation is being overblown. Fans don't want the signing and want the club to look for someone else, but it means nothing as the overwhelming majority will support him once he wears the shirt.

However, if he fails to deliver, rightfully fans will point to the fact that they predicted it and will be able to honestly question their manager and club's decisions. Just like the way some of us predicted in the beginning of last season that our transfer strategy was a fail and we would struggle without the addition of a striker (way before the injuries) and were proved right.

Lastly, if you've not noticed, I'm extremely explicit about my biases and feel no need to sugarcoat or hide them on a faceless internet forum. I clearly stated that we'd be better off recruiting someone from the women's team over Noni, so I believe that should have been the neon sign that declares I am happy to express my bias towards him.

So I am a bit unsure why your last paragraph is built on a premise that I need more reasons to validate the bias especially since I never stated the "club must be paying Madueke £150K a week", seeing as the aim of that particular post was to point out that I was "wrong" about a previous post that claimed that wages means the deal makes less sense.

Nope. I want to give the club the benefit of the doubt because the signing clearly meets its valuation; the player appears to be one that has been identified by the club and I'm happy to see how he does.


I've stated my opinion that what we have paid is within what I would expect for the player in the current market. Also that if he fails to deliver I will obviously have to accept that we paid too much.


I don't consider myself to have any valid right to assess the merits of Madueke, because I do not watch Chelsea games. This is not dishonesty on my part. It is simply accepting that the club knows much more than I do, and will have conducted a rigorous assessment of what he is capable of and the benefits that he can bring to our team.


I did indeed lament the club's apparent dithering over transfers a few weeks ago, I don't recall basing this on valuations per se, albeit IIRC I stated that we often seem to quibble about fees to the detriment of landing a player we want. Which is precisely why I am not going to complain now when we did not do this over Madueke. I don't think I'm sitting on the fence here. My point is that I think it's unfair on the one hand to accuse the club of failing to make, or vacillating over signings, but on the other lose our shit (I'm not accusing you of this extreme) when we do the opposite.


The confirmation bias I referred to was your statement that 'I'd be surprised if it's less than £150k'. This seems to me to be a figure plucked out of the air that would underpin an argument that we are paying over the odds for the player. I try not to get personal, so my intention was not to accuse you of bias against Madueke - you have indeed made clear your antipathy to this signing - but to highlight that (1) we cannot assess the transfer deal in total without knowing what deal was reached re Madueke's wages, and (2) that it's easy to overreach when taking a position.


At the end of the day, this debate seems to me to be about £10-£15M that some fans think we have overpaid for the player, because had we signed Madueke for £35M plus add ons I'm not sure the angst would be so pronounced. Unless it is shown that this alleged overpayment has prevented us signing say Eze, then I really am at a loss to understand what all the fuss is about.


Anyways, I'm sure we are boring people now - been good to debate with you :good:

[HCZ_Reborn]

New deal for Nwaneri pretty much done.

That’s not good at all

People will have one less thing to blow out of all proportion and catastrophise about

Not so much on here, but I get the impression with some parts of the fan base that they’d become suicidally depressed like the late Claude Callegari if we won something major next season.

[IBK]

Which in itself makes me worried

He also rated Havertz but only by accident has he turned out to be a half-decent striker, he looked lost in the role Arteta saw for him

He thought Zin was any kind of LB - he isn't

He thought Cala could play LB - he can't

He thought Merino would be good in MF, but he's underwhelmed and really only been useful as an emergency striker - because Arteta neglected our attack for two years

He really really wanted to spend ridiculous amounts on Mudryk

He also really wanted to spend £30m on a backup keeper

He bought Vieira then threw him away like an unwanted toy

He still counts Jesus as a 'striker' when clearly he can't hit a barn door from a yard out unless it's against Palace - when he's fit that is

He wanted Sesko rather than Gyokeres - slightly more marginal decision but most of us agree Gyokeres made more sense

TBF i agree with Norgaard, Zubi and Mosquera but how much is that Arteta and how much Edu/Berta - Zubi I think was certainly mainly sorted by Edu

Problem is that managers will always have duds, and noone gets every transfer right. An argument could be made to counter your points by referring to the transfers/decisions Arteta has got right, and I think on balance there are more plusses than minusses in this regard. I think we are all agreed on the things the manager/club have got wrong over the past few years. Also that this season is very much make or break for Arteta now. But with a glass half full rather than half empty what I am now seeing this transfer window is an attempt to address previous glaring errors - striker; cover; predictability. So I'm feeling reasonably positive and looking forward to seeing how things play out...

[IBK]

That’s not good at all

People will have one less thing to blow out of all proportion and catastrophise about

Not so much on here, but I get the impression with some parts of the fan base that they’d become suicidally depressed like the late Claude Callegari if we won something major next season.

:lol:

[Mac76]

I don't consider myself to have any valid right to assess the merits of Madueke, because I do not watch Chelsea games. This is not dishonesty on my part. It is simply accepting that the club knows much more than I do, and will have conducted a rigorous assessment of what he is capable of and the benefits that he can bring to our team.



I don't buy all this stuff about the club having loads of data etc, so therefore they know best - as VAR has proven you can have all kinds of information but it ultimately comes down to how people interpret it

If the club and Arteta are so clever and well-informed, why buy Zinchenko to play in a defensive position when clearly he can't defend? Or Cala when he can't either?

Or Vieira, who Arteta quickly decided wasn't up to any playing anywhere at all?

Or buy Havertz to play a position he doesn't know and can't perform well in?

Or Lokonga?

Or Tavares?

I'll trust my own eyes thanks

Based on watching him for a comparable amount of time to the other possible players (and that's just in the PL let alone abroad) Madueke IMO is clearly inferior to Kudus, Cunha or other £50m-£55m players so should be about £40m

[IBK]

I don't buy all this stuff about the club having loads of data etc, so therefore they know best - as VAR has proven you can have all kinds of information but it ultimately comes down to how people interpret it

If the club and Arteta are so clever and well-informed, why buy Zinchenko to play in a defensive position when clearly he can't defend? Or Cala when he can't either?

Or Vieira, who Arteta quickly decided wasn't up to any playing anywhere at all?

Or buy Havertz to play a position he doesn't know and can't perform well in?

Or Lokonga?

Or Tavares?

I'll trust my own eyes thanks

Based on watching him for a comparable amount of time to the other possible players (and that's just in the PL let alone abroad) Madueke IMO is clearly inferior to Kudus, Cunha or other £50m-£55m players so should be about £40m

Problem is you could level your criticism at pretty much any club with certain players. The club clearly is in a more informed position than you as a fan. Do we trust the club? Well that remains to be seen, but it's a different point.

I answered your £40M point in my previous post.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

@ IBK, I'm fine with your response and probably would not have replied but I need to clarify this:



The confirmation bias I referred to was your statement that 'I'd be surprised if it's less than £150k'. This seems to me to be a figure plucked out of the air that would underpin an argument that we are paying over the odds for the player. I try not to get personal, so my intention was not to accuse you of bias against Madueke - you have indeed made clear your antipathy to this signing - but to highlight that (1) we cannot assess the transfer deal in total without knowing what deal was reached re Madueke's wages, and (2) that it's easy to overreach when taking a position.



Like I stated earlier (and I guessed you missed for some reason :rolleyes:), the post you referenced was to point out that I was wrong, as I overestimated how much Noni was on at Chelsea and thus overestimated how much we would have to pay him here.

The post was actually an expression of relief as paying £150k for an attacking player, especially one from an EPL rival you bought for £50m is rare and generally good business (that's if you believe the player was worth £50m in the first place) . Let's not forget we got Havertz for around almost the same amount from Chelsea already on £250k a week.

Anyway, its seems this confirmation bias thing swings both ways.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Which in itself makes me worried

He also rated Havertz but only by accident has he turned out to be a half-decent striker, he looked lost in the role Arteta saw for him

He thought Zin was any kind of LB - he isn't

He thought Cala could play LB - he can't

He thought Merino would be good in MF, but he's underwhelmed and really only been useful as an emergency striker - because Arteta neglected our attack for two years

He really really wanted to spend ridiculous amounts on Mudryk

He also really wanted to spend £30m on a backup keeper

He bought Vieira then threw him away like an unwanted toy

He still counts Jesus as a 'striker' when clearly he can't hit a barn door from a yard out unless it's against Palace - when he's fit that is

He wanted Sesko rather than Gyokeres - slightly more marginal decision but most of us agree Gyokeres made more sense

TBF i agree with Norgaard, Zubi and Mosquera but how much is that Arteta and how much Edu/Berta - Zubi I think was certainly mainly sorted by Edu

I don't rate Arteta's ability in spotting talent either.

The only thing I'd have to begrudgingly accept that he's a bit good at is knowing when to get rid of a player (Ozil& Auba and the noises of not being happy about Martinelli are good examples).

[Mac76]

I don't rate Arteta's ability in spotting talent either.

The only thing I'd have to begrudgingly accept that he's a bit good at is knowing when to get rid of a player (Ozil& Auba and the noises of not being happy about Martinelli are good examples).

I think Auba challenged Arteta's authority by being late etc , so that was the reason

[IBK]

@ IBK, I'm fine with your response and probably would not have replied but I need to clarify this:




Like I stated earlier (and I guessed you missed for some reason :rolleyes:), the post you referenced was to point out that I was wrong, as I overestimated how much Noni was on at Chelsea and thus overestimated how much we would have to pay him here.

The post was actually an expression of relief as paying £150k for an attacking player, especially one from an EPL rival you bought for £50m is rare and generally good business (that's if you believe the player was worth £50m in the first place) . Let's not forget we got Havertz for around almost the same amount from Chelsea already on £250k a week.

Anyway, its seems this confirmation bias thing swings both ways.

Fair enough :good:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Liverpool opened talks with Frankfurt over Ekitike, thing that somewhat puts a block on the whole Isaak thing

[Mac76]

Problem is you could level your criticism at pretty much any club with certain players. The club clearly is in a more informed position than you as a fan. Do we trust the club? Well that remains to be seen, but it's a different point.

I answered your £40M point in my previous post.

Ok, fine, so every club gets it wrong, that doesn't counter my point about the data either not being that helpful or alternatively it being ignored.

And whatever you said about £40m did nothing to counter the fact that better players are valued at what we're buying him for, that says to me we're overpaying

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Liverpool opened talks with Frankfurt over Ekitike, thing that somewhat puts a block on the whole Isaak thing

Bizarrely I'm a little concerned on both. I'm not sure if Ekithingy is necessarily any better than Nunez (both seem to miss the easy chances/take lots to score and credit to Nunez he does often pop up with important goals even if I don't rate him). Whilst I do rate Isak, highly, I'm not sure he's worth basically double the price. Equally, I'm not sure who else there is available.
Rodrygo by all accounts is already on mega money, so again, value for money is probably quite low.

On the other hand, I don't really know what I'm talking about so let them get on with it. Trust the process.


Btw not being catty, but why do you add the extra a in Isaak?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Bizarrely I'm a little concerned on both. I'm not sure if Ekithingy is necessarily any better than Nunez (both seem to miss the easy chances/take lots to score and credit to Nunez he does often pop up with important goals even if I don't rate him). Whilst I do rate Isak, highly, I'm not sure he's worth basically double the price. Equally, I'm not sure who else there is available.
Rodrygo by all accounts is already on mega money, so again, value for money is probably quite low.

On the other hand, I don't really know what I'm talking about so let them get on with it. Trust the process.


Btw not being catty, but why do you add the extra a in Isaak?

I genuinely thought that was how it was spelt :lol: you know how Scandinavian names tend to double up on the vowels

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Bizarrely I'm a little concerned on both. I'm not sure if Ekithingy is necessarily any better than Nunez (both seem to miss the easy chances/take lots to score and credit to Nunez he does often pop up with important goals even if I don't rate him). Whilst I do rate Isak, highly, I'm not sure he's worth basically double the price. Equally, I'm not sure who else there is available.
Rodrygo by all accounts is already on mega money, so again, value for money is probably quite low.

On the other hand, I don't really know what I'm talking about so let them get on with it. Trust the process.


Btw not being catty, but why do you add the extra a in Isaak?

Hmmm, sounds like you'd be happy to keep Nunez....well as your supposed rival, I'd be glad if more people felt this way and the status quo is maintained :lol:

Obviously, you guys getting Isak is the nightmare scenario, at least for me, as I can't see on what world he doesn't improve you. Let's not forget that besides winning the league, you guys walked the league stage of the CL quite easily and were odds on favourites for at least the semifinals which likely would have happened if not for the sudden PSG tsunami you faced earlier than the rest of us. All that with a patchy no9 that few really rate and some have claimed is the reason why you shouldn't buy from Portugal :lol:

Ekitike is a huge talent , definitely a player that has a higher ceiling than Nunez, IMO. But again I do get what you say about the easy chances and that he is a bit unproven. My main issue is he may lack big game mentality ( he performed quite poorly against Spurs in their knockout tie) so that worried me a bit when I suggested him for us on here a while ago.

Anyway, whatever happens I'd still rate your summer business as pretty good as you've kept all but one of your important players and added a true star that will entertain.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I genuinely thought that was how it was spelt :lol: you know how Scandinavian names tend to double up on the vowels

:lol: Fair enough.


Hmmm, sounds like you'd be happy to keep Nunez....well as your supposed rival, I'd be glad if more people felt this way and the status quo is maintained :lol:

Obviously, you guys getting Isak is the nightmare scenario, at least for me, as I can't see on what world he doesn't improve you. Let's not forget that besides winning the league, you guys walked the league stage of the CL quite easily and were odds on favourites for at least the semifinals which likely would have happened if not for the sudden PSG tsunami you faced earlier than the rest of us. All that with a patchy no9 that few really rate and some have claimed is the reason why you shouldn't buy from Portugal :lol:

Ekitike is a huge talent , definitely a player that has a higher ceiling than Nunez, IMO. But again I do get what you say about the easy chances and that he is a bit unproven. My main issue is he may lack big game mentality ( he performed quite poorly against Spurs in their knockout tie) so that worried me a bit when I suggested him for us on here a while ago.

Anyway, whatever happens I'd still rate you summer business as pretty good as you've kept all but one of your important players and added a true star that will entertain.

I really don't rate Nunez :lol: I went to the Benfica game in the year before we signed him, and even though he scored, didn't think he was good enough. On the other hand, he does genuinely seem like a decent lad and as I say does pop up with strangely important goals. Plus of course whatever happens with Diaz.

I'm not even going to pretend like I have any idea how we'll do this season. Whilst I'm excited of the transfers we've made, I'm always wary of "winning the transfer window". So much can come down to an injury or two. Madueke will probably end up winning your player of the year.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Madueke will probably end up winning your player of the year.
.....not sure what to do with this, as it can be read in so many different ways :lol:

[Mac76]

.....not sure what to do with this, as it can be read in so many different ways :lol:

:lol:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

:lol:

Looks like we're getting Ekitike. Always rated him. The new Henry.

[Mac76]

:lol:

Looks like we're getting Ekitike. Always rated him. The new Henry.

Damn, I got excited for a moment then realised it was posted by a Liverpool fan ... :getcoat: :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Apparently we're still quibbling about the add ons with Sporting, the last £2.5m tranche, but apparently movers have been spotted at Gyokores place in Lisbon, so hopefully its not an Obi Mikel situation, where he gets to London and signs for another club!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/35897086/viktor-gyokeres-arsenal-transfer-house-removal-van-lisbon/

[dazthegooner]

Well we've just signed Olivia Smith for £1m maybe she's our new elite striker ;)

[Mac76]

You can sum this article up with one sentence - we're f***ing this up

I'm willing to bet we don't get Gyokeres or Eze, we paid full whack for Madueke and are now haggling over the equivalent of 5p on the players we actually want to see sign

https://www.londonworld.com/sport/football/arsenal/fabrizio-romano-arsenal-viktor-gyokeres-5229487

[Chippy]

You can sum this article up with one sentence - we're f***ing this up

I'm willing to bet we don't get Gyokeres or Eze, we paid full whack for Madueke and are now haggling over the equivalent of 5p on the players we actually want to see sign

https://www.londonworld.com/sport/football/arsenal/fabrizio-romano-arsenal-viktor-gyokeres-5229487

Hopefully this will be concluded very soon.

https://www.givemesport.com/arsenal-book-medical-for-phenomenal-star-in-london-this-weekend/

[Mac76]

let's hope that's true

still want to see Eze too though

[Chippy]

let's hope that's true

still want to see Eze too though

Indeed.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

You can sum this article up with one sentence - we're f***ing this up

I'm willing to bet we don't get Gyokeres or Eze, we paid full whack for Madueke and are now haggling over the equivalent of 5p on the players we actually want to see sign

https://www.londonworld.com/sport/football/arsenal/fabrizio-romano-arsenal-viktor-gyokeres-5229487

The only reason I believe the Eze deal has a hope of going through is that Madueke doesn't help us fill our quota of homegrown players.

With the way things are, we'll likely sign a player who is homegrown, so if not him, fingers crossed that they get it right and go for some of the other picks I touted earlier that I believe could improve us like Rodgers and Lookman.

[Mac76]

The latest articles are saying Gyokeres' medical is close and also we're preparing a bid for Rodrygo which again doesn't answer the homegrown question

am a bit disappointed as I don;t think we're signing both Rodrygo and Eze (though it would be unreal if we did)

I kind of wish that signing Eze hadn't become a thing, as whatever else happens i will be disappointed if we don't get him, and if it was because we signed Madueke that's pretty hard to take

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The latest articles are saying Gyokeres' medical is close and also we're preparing a bid for Rodrygo which again doesn't answer the homegrown question

am a bit disappointed as I don;t think we're signing both Rodrygo and Eze (though it would be unreal if we did)

I kind of wish that signing Eze hadn't become a thing, as whatever else happens i will be disappointed if we don't get him, and if it was because we signed Madueke that's pretty hard to take

Pretty hard to take but easily predicted and clearly one of the reasons so many gooners were upset with signing Madueke.

I have said my piece regarding Rodrygo or pretty much any attacking Brazilian player, so I won't be repeating it for now.

Currently can't even give us a 3 out of 10 for this transfer window, but there is still over a month left, though previous form indicates that's nothing to be optimistic about.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/33694/13395330/noni-madueke-transfer-news-arsenal-complete-52m-deal-to-sign-england-international-from-rivals-chelsea

So he's officially been announced.....welcome Noni, I hope you make me eat my words and lead us to trophies just like you did with your last club (couldn't help it :lol: )

[dazthegooner]

Well Paul Merson believe's this might be preparing to sell Saka. Might back on the juice again or his best mate Charlie.

[Mac76]

Currently can't even give us a 3 out of 10 for this transfer window, but there is still over a month left, though previous form indicates that's nothing to be optimistic about.

Even I think Mosquera is pretty much done, so of the remaining question marks, if we get Gyok and Rodrygo I'm maybe a 6.5, am marking it down because I think Madueke's a poor buy at that price and also not getting Eze would be so disappointing.

I'm not so down on Rodrygo, though I admit I'm not an expert on him and with apologies I've not seen your comments on Brazilian attackers but can tell you're no impressed :lol:

If we'd got Sesko it would be a 6.

If we get Gyokeres and Eze it goes up to an 8 i think, although that also depends on sales - we need to sell Zin, also Vieira, Nelson, Lokonga etc - I'm tempted to also say Merino and Cala although they seem to have some uses - just not in the positions they were bought for :lol:

[Mac76]

Madueke is official

:tumbleweed:

[Marc Overmars]

Mosquera has also signed.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

At this rate, this is probably the best news we could pray for...as if we leave this solely to our capable suits, it could turn into a Sesko situation and we try to complete the transfer next year.....after not winning the EPL as usual.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-transfer-viktor-gyokeres-latest-35582839.amp

[Mac76]

At this rate, this is probably the best news we could pray for...as if we leave this solely to our capable suits, it could turn into a Sesko situation and we try to complete the transfer next year.....after not winning the EPL as usual.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-transfer-viktor-gyokeres-latest-35582839.amp

Yeah I wondered if Arsenal might let this drag a la Sesko

Suerly they must know Arteta and Berta will be hung from the lamposts around the ground if they don't buy a striker and we only end up with Madueke?

Seriously:

Most clubs (not Man Utd obvs :lol:): "hey we really need this player - let's buy him" = player is bought and club does better

Arsenal: "hey we really need this player, let's play round with it, try everyone's patience ... and meanwhile pay the asking price for a player nobody wants" = player is not bought and the club continues to underperform. Repeat ad infinitum

Apart from Rice, when's the last time we bought a player everyone was genuinely excited about? Ironically it was probably Pepe

[KSE Comedy Club]

Rumours are that Isaks agent has contacted the club so they put the Guokores deal on hold.

Tbh I will be pissed off if that’s true.

I’m not entirely convinced by Isak and his price would be ridiculous.
Also Newcastle won’t want to sell.

Massive risk ‘chasing the dragon’ IMO

[Mac76]

If that's true, I completely agree with you

I'd genuinely prefer Gyokeres to Isak

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I thought Sporting were holding this up for the add ons they want? :lol:

If we're really complaining about paying 2 million Euros extra for things that wouldn't apply until next season anyway, how the fuck would we drop £130m on Isak.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

One could dream of having the two.

I believe they both play together in the national team...with Gyokores providing most of the assists...if wishes were horses :cloud9:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Or we could just get the player with premier league experience and leave the other one to face staying at a club he’s burnt his bridges with :lol:

But seriously though, no truth whatsoever to this I’d expect. Isak (as opposed to Isaak) is being touted by his agent, even trying to sniff out interest from Saudi clubs. There’s all this stuff that he’d rather come to us than Liverpool but who fucking knows really.

For me it’s about Sporting trying to play hardball in terms of cash they receive up front. If not for the fact that it would potentially leave us with no striker (I’d be ok with that rather than spending money on Gyokeres but I think given the infantile tantrum throwing from the “fans”, it probably wouldn’t be worth it) I’d tell them to stick the deal up their aris and walk away.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Portuguese press are reporting deal not likely going through and we've made his father "cry" :lol: .... nice to know our suits are sharing the misery all around and it's not just the fans at the receiving end.

https://metro.co.uk/2025/07/20/viktor-gyokeres-dad-breaks-tears-latest-twist-arsenal-transfer-23706268/amp/

[Marc Overmars]

Would be an immense failure from the club now if they don’t land him given there aren’t many other worthwhile options around.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13399592/hugo-ekitike-transfer-news-liverpool-agree-79m-deal-eintracht-frankfurt-striker

Liverpool have finished another bumper deal in average time, and yes the average time to finish a transfer is less than a week, despite what some might have you believe.

Ekitike is a great talent with a high ceiling, higher than Sesko's IMO (and actually arguable with stats). I now actively hope he doesn't get close to it!

Probably the best for us as signing Isak would have definitely meant we wouldn't get close to them this season IMO.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13399592/hugo-ekitike-transfer-news-liverpool-agree-79m-deal-eintracht-frankfurt-striker

Liverpool have finished another bumper deal in average time, and yes the average time to finish a transfer is less than a week, despite what some might have you believe.

Ekitike is a great talent with a high ceiling, higher than Sesko's IMO (and actually arguable with stats). I now actively hope he doesn't get close to it!

Probably the best for us as signing Isak would have definitely meant we wouldn't get close to them this season IMO.

How is it arguable with Stats, Sesko has a better goals to game ratio in the Bundesliga than Ekitike…he’s also a year younger.

I have a feeling you wouldn’t be arguing any of this, if we’d been interested in him. I personally saw Ekitike as an alternative if we didn’t sign Sesko or preferably we signed both and left Gyokeres with the stubborn dickheads at Sporting.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Seeing as you post a 1000 things a day one shouldn't be surprised if you don't take anything you push out seriously and and act out your usual case of convenient amnesia.

It was you, who put out probably the most detailed analysis of all the strikers available this summer, and it's those stats I referred to that showed Ekitike is on a higher curve than Sesko currently. We had an in depth discussions then IIRC.

Also, last season Ekitike scored more goals, had more assists and created more chances than Sesko in the Bundesliga in the same amount of games, so pardon me if I don't take mere goals per game or a season where he was only on loan too seriously.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Seeing as you post a 1000 things a day one shouldn't be surprised if you don't take anything you push out seriously and and act out your usual case of convenient amnesia.

It was you, who put out probably the most detailed analysis of all the strikers available this summer, and it's those stats I referred to that showed Ekitike is on a higher curve than Sesko currently. We had in depth discussions then IIRC.

Also, last season Ekitike scored more goals, had more assists and created more chances than Sesko in the Bundesliga in the same amount of games, so pardon me if I don't take mere goals per game or a season where he was only on loan too seriously.

Ad hominem won’t help you, plus you post on this particular thread far more than I do, so not only a petulant response but an inaccurate one as well

Having a negative view on how the club is run is one thing, filtering everything to shoehorn it into a narrative is something else entirely

The difference last season was two goals, plus I’m not the one saying one player is better than another. I think they are both decent players…and I’m sorry but I don’t believe for a second that the difference of two goals would have changed your attitude if we had Ekitike instead of Sesko as a first choice priority. But because Liverpool have agreed to sign him, it’s “oh look how much better they are at signing top players than we are”.

Ekitike is technically more of a creative player than Sesko but he’s also extremely inconsistent at times….he often played for Frankfurt as a second striker so actually if anything, it would fit my belief that they would play well together.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

BTW surprised no one has brought up us being linked with Frankfurt's Hugo Ekitike.

I've seen a few glimpses of the kid and for now he looks like something that could be really really special.

He's tall, pretty decent dribbler, has a crazy way he accelerates with the ball (not Martinelli aimless running) and seems to have that positive unpredictability that could really be a difference.

Love the glimpses of the kid I've seen so far, and though he's far from the finished article, if I had to compare him with anyone it would be Isak, and TBH the few glimpses of the kid I've seen is making me want him more than an unattainable Isak.

Right now he tops my list of strikers purely based on his potential (which is me doing a drastic uturn)...but I'd definitely take him over Sesko, all the attainable guys in the EPL , just a bit over Osimhen, and now its a straight duel between him and Gyokeres (head says a dependable Gyokeres but my heart says this kid is going to be crazy at a top club that counter attacks swiftly, really crazy). Probably fits Liverpool more than us but I sincerely hope that never happens.

Posted, this in March and on the very first page of this thread...I probably had a crystal ball that told me there would be an annoying hypocritical knowitall that would continually question everyone's motives except his own :lol:


As for the stats, you can check this site and read it the way you want to, though the higher marks tend to carry more weight.

https://one-versus-one.com/en/compare-players/Benjamin-Sesko-vs-Hugo-Ekitike

[HCZ_Reborn]

Posted, this in March and on the very first page of this thread...I probably had a crystal ball that told me there would be an annoying hypocritical knowitall that would continually question everyone's motives except his own :lol:


As for the stats, you can check this site and read it the way you want to, though the higher marks tend to carry more weight.

https://one-versus-one.com/en/compare-players/Benjamin-Sesko-vs-Hugo-Ekitike

As I say I’m not basing goals on one season plus Sesko has a better shots to goals ratio

Plus it’s interesting how you say he has a better ceiling yet you’ve also claimed that it’s an utter meaningless metric

My argument is that the stats are not different enough that if it had been that we’d chosen Ekitike over Gyokeres you wouldn’t be throwing the exact same shit fit you through in June. And I’m just saying that it’s convenient that you’re talking about what a great player he is (when you’ve almost never mentioned him previously) only now that Liverpool are after him

The point is no matter how tenuous a link or how outlandish the rumour, there’s nothing you won’t go after like a pig hunting truffles if you think it makes your argument for you. My contention is if your belief about the club was so self evident you wouldn’t need to do that.

If you genuinely think Ekitike is better than Sesko that’s one thing (I think that’s a largely subjective opinion as they are two different types of striker), but again I think it’s more about the narrative you relentlessly push (and aren’t very subtle about it).

Most of the time I just ignore it, but sometimes I see your posts and I think “have you ever considered supporting another club?”.
I don’t buy into this you have to back Arteta to be a fan bollocks, but there seems to be almost nothing about the club you actually like.

Honestly don’t mean that to be nasty either, yes I’ve wound you up in the past and I’ve I admit been sometimes unfair to you but unlike that Weasley little prick that I have on ignore I don’t necessarily think you’re a piece of shit or anything, I just honestly wonder what you get out of supporting Arsenal?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Shots to goal ratio :lol: ....I'm surprised you didn't bring up Sesko's slightly superior defensive stats so you could win the internet.

I've got no intention of continuing a conversation with you that always leads no where, as in simple biblical speak, '"the blind can't lead the blind"..... so seeing as you'll never accept your faults, there is little point to continuing.

Anyway, now that he's going to Liverpool, I really hope my predictions on him are wrong and more importantly we get our act right and do the needful to compete.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Shots to goal ratio :lol: ....I'm surprised you didn't bring up Sesko's slightly superior defensive stats so you could win the internet.

I've got no intention of continuing a conversation with you that always leads no where, as in simple biblical speak, '"the blind can't lead the blind"..... so seeing as you'll never accept your faults, there is little point to continuing.

Anyway, now that he's going to Liverpool, I really hope my predictions on him are wrong and more importantly we get our act right and do the needful to compete.

I’ve plenty of faults, I wouldn’t mind but I even admitted to them in my last reply. Plus i do post on here often, but I haven’t on this particular thread. I wasted far too much time arguing with that weird little man child to the point where I have to look at myself and just have him on ignore, because he’s such an unbelievably slimy creep that there’s just nothing to be gained by engaging with him.

I just thought (perhaps wrongly) that you might have the character to admit you are being disingenuous about Ekitike. I thought wrong. So will just leave you to your relentless shit posting

[Mac76]

getting bck to the point, Liverpool have simply stepped in and paid up to get the most important signing done, while we haggle over sixpence - there's stories of Man Utd planning to swoop for Gyokeres and I wouldn't be surprised to see others do so too, however intransigent the preseident is, surely the player must be getting fed up at us not just sorting it?

If we don't sign a striker the club can look forward to a half-empty Emirates after the first half-dozen games, as with those fixtures it will see us well behind in any 'title race' - that means fewer merch and refreshment sales etc - how much does that add up to? surely whatever it costs to get Gyokeres over the line?

[HCZ_Reborn]

I still absolutely don’t want Gyokeres to the point where I’m hoping the deal falls through, I’d have liked us to sign Ekitike because I think he’s a genuinely decent player who has performed well in a superior league to Portugal, I don’t think he’s better or worse than Sesko, and I’m sure I mentioned him as a possible signing before Liverpool started sniffing around. But then again I can criticise the board for wasting its time on a 27 year old with disturbingly little in the way of top pedigree rather than moving onto him after it appeared Leipzig weren’t going to play ball over Sesko (I’d have probably also have tried to raid Leipzig for Sesko and Xavi Simon)


But, if we do get Gyokeres and im wrong about him and he’s the first striker from the Portuguese league to not be a terrible disappointment in the premier league, I’ll only be too glad to admit it

[Mac76]

Well I'd say I was looking forward to it as you're undoubtedly wrong, however it looks as though we'll never get to see it, or certainly not at Arsenal

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

getting bck to the point, Liverpool have simply stepped in and paid up to get the most important signing done, while we haggle over sixpence - there's stories of Man Utd planning to swoop for Gyokeres and I wouldn't be surprised to see others do so too, however intransigent the preseident is, surely the player must be getting fed up at us not just sorting it?

If we don't sign a striker the club can look forward to a half-empty Emirates after the first half-dozen games, as with those fixtures it will see us well behind in any 'title race' - that means fewer merch and refreshment sales etc - how much does that add up to? surely whatever it costs to get Gyokeres over the line?

The thing is, this is a bit reminiscent of what happened last season when we were all asking for a striker and all thought Sesko was coming, only at the last minute to hear he decided to sign an extension and there would be no plan B.

The longer we delay, the more likely something goes wrong and we're forced to consider another Plan B.....seriously what tittle chasing club needs over a year to recruit a suitable striker?!

Its quite sad the situation of things if you ask me

[HCZ_Reborn]

The thing is, this is a bit reminiscent of what happened last season when we were all asking for a striker and all thought Sesko was coming, only at the last minute to hear he decided to sign an extension and there would be no plan B.

The longer we delay, the more likely something goes wrong and we're forced to consider another Plan B.....seriously what tittle chasing club needs over a year to recruit a suitable striker?!

Its quite sad the situation of things if you ask me

So question, if it turns out that what I hope for doesn’t transpire and we sign the swede, will you walk back some of these statements or double down in some other way.

Because to me what I’m seeing is that the club regard this as pretty much a done deal, that some transfers take longer than others.

I’ve already stated that if we don’t sign a striker full stop that I will be incredibly unhappy with the club. If the deal goes through are you prepared to say “well it took longer than I’d have liked but we got the player I want so fair play etc”

I’m interested to see if you would do that

[IBK]

getting bck to the point, Liverpool have simply stepped in and paid up to get the most important signing done, while we haggle over sixpence - there's stories of Man Utd planning to swoop for Gyokeres and I wouldn't be surprised to see others do so too, however intransigent the preseident is, surely the player must be getting fed up at us not just sorting it?

If we don't sign a striker the club can look forward to a half-empty Emirates after the first half-dozen games, as with those fixtures it will see us well behind in any 'title race' - that means fewer merch and refreshment sales etc - how much does that add up to? surely whatever it costs to get Gyokeres over the line?

The problem is that the Emirates won't be half empty - far from it. It's impossible for a lot of people to get tickets - and the club will still ensure a full stadium even if some fans decide they don't want to go.

And this is part of the wider issue, I think. If you are run by bean counters then our fan base means that second best will still maintain revenues (match days and merch at least). We simply seem to lack the ambition to compete properly with the very best. Our transfer strategy can be characterised as always wanting to the the minimum possible to try to improve the team (rather than maximising our prospects), but this improvement seems very incremental at best. I am left with the distinct impression that lately we are conducting transfer business with the handbrake firmly on (much like our on pitch performances last season) rather than showing confidence and real aspiration, and this feels underwhelming.

I defended the Madueke signing as I wasn't going to criticise the club for making signings - and I believed that Gyokores was in the bag (still do) and that we were serious about Eze, having agreed personal terms with the player. While I accept that this is knee jerk, the past week has dented my confidence over this, and led me to return to the idea that we can only land the easy signings with minimal fuss, but pull our punches when it comes to bigger, more exciting (and let's face it the most crucial) transfers.

Sometimes our club seems like a bell jar, leaching any feel good factor away. The last time there was a genuine feel good factor around the club was at the beginning of the 2023/24 season after we had signed Declan Rice. Part of this was because it seemed as though we had finally decided to show genuine ambition to try to win the league. As much as I try to look at us rather than the competition, Liverpool - from a better existing player base - are currently making us look distinctly small time.

I really hope that we confound Gooners' understandable reservations about how serious we are to push on properly from here...but even if we do I am not seeing much of a step change so far in how we approach transfers. Our business so far more resembles Arsene's later years than anything new.

[Mac76]

you'd be surprised re tickets, during certain games at the end of last season you couldn't give them away - they go on ticket exchange but no-one takes them up

and even if it's mainly full, a lack of enthusiasm does feed into merch salees, plus what time people get to the ground and therefore how many refreshments they have etc

Like you I had a peak of excitement when it looked like both Gyokeres and Eze were real possibilities but we've allowed this to go tits up - they wanted the signings before going on tour but now we're paying god know how much money to take trash like Zin and Lokonga on tour - and what impact does that tour distraction have on our ability to focus on the transefers we've most needed all summer?

I'm increasingly convinced Arteta is somehow responsible for playing hardball over Gyokeres, he didn't want him anyway and so he's trying to scupper it IMO, presumably by insisting we don't go abvoe a certain price - IK that sounds like tin-foil-hat stuff but I genuinely wouldn't put it past him

[HCZ_Reborn]

The problem is that the Emirates won't be half empty - far from it. It's impossible for a lot of people to get tickets - and the club will still ensure a full stadium even if some fans decide they don't want to go.

And this is part of the wider issue, I think. If you are run by bean counters then our fan base means that second best will still maintain revenues (match days and merch at least). We simply seem to lack the ambition to compete properly with the very best. Our transfer strategy can be characterised as always wanting to the the minimum possible to try to improve the team (rather than maximising our prospects), but this improvement seems very incremental at best. I am left with the distinct impression that lately we are conducting transfer business with the handbrake firmly on (much like our on pitch performances last season) rather than showing confidence and real aspiration, and this feels underwhelming.

I defended the Madueke signing as I wasn't going to criticise the club for making signings - and I believed that Gyokores was in the bag (still do) and that we were serious about Eze, having agreed personal terms with the player. While I accept that this is knee jerk, the past week has dented my confidence over this, and led me to return to the idea that we can only land the easy signings with minimal fuss, but pull our punches when it comes to bigger, more exciting (and let's face it the most crucial) transfers.

Sometimes our club seems like a bell jar, leaching any feel good factor away. The last time there was a genuine feel good factor around the club was at the beginning of the 2023/24 season after we had signed Declan Rice. Part of this was because it seemed as though we had finally decided to show genuine ambition to try to win the league. As much as I try to look at us rather than the competition, Liverpool - from a better existing player base - are currently making us look distinctly small time.

I really hope that we confound Gooners' understandable reservations about how serious we are to push on properly from here...but even if we do I am not seeing much of a step change so far in how we approach transfers. Our business so far more resembles Arsene's later years than anything new.

I think these are all reasonable points and I think it’s understandable within reason to be frustrated (with Gyokeres I personally don’t care all that much but that’s personal bias against signing the player). I do think it’s fair to say though that when it comes to transfer negotiations and how they are conducted, we are on here about as well versed in them as we are in conversational mandarin (someone is going to point out that they can do that to piss on that example I just know :lol:)
The other point is if the negotiations are the same as the late Wenger era, then that would be a signal that there’s not much we can do but hope for the best. Reading an article today that reinforces my belief that the Kroenkes want the club to take as minimum risk as possible when it comes to spending, and that it’s Arteta who has convinced them to push the boat out more. This would be consistent with his statement this morning that the club needs reinforcement still both in strength and quality, and if we suppose we don’t get it….Arteta may become quite outspoken about it even if only to cover up his own shortcomings (which is no different to most coaches)
The disagreement with Sporting seems to be on the amount of money we offer up front, which suggests to me that we are reluctant to do this because of potential impact on other signings, a barrier that may well not have been there with Madueke as Chelsea probably only feel they need the equivalent of an IOU to convince UEFA they are meeting their FFP commitments

The sad fact is, whilst it’s probably more comforting to believe in the unique ineptitude of Arteta and other members of Arsenal staff (because that’s more changeable). It’s far more likely that we are restricted in what we can do (in the way Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City aren’t) because KSE are hugely risk avoidant. Arsenal works for them as an asset as long as it’s making the champions league, anything else is all risk no reward from their perspective

[IBK]

you'd be surprised re tickets, during certain games at the end of last season you couldn't give them away - they go on ticket exchange but no-one takes them up

and even if it's mainly full, a lack of enthusiasm does feed into merch salees, plus what time people get to the ground and therefore how many refreshments they have etc

Like you I had a peak of excitement when it looked like both Gyokeres and Eze were real possibilities but we've allowed this to go tits up - they wanted the signings before going on tour but now we're paying god know how much money to take trash like Zin and Lokonga on tour - and what impact does that tour distraction have on our ability to focus on the transefers we've most needed all summer?

I'm increasingly convinced Arteta is somehow responsible for playing hardball over Gyokeres, he didn't want him anyway and so he's trying to scupper it IMO, presumably by insisting we don't go abvoe a certain price - IK that sounds like tin-foil-hat stuff but I genuinely wouldn't put it past him

I'm not that prone to speculation, but something is going on with the Gyokores deal. Sporting are clearly not making it easy, but from the outside they have backed Arsenal into a corner that might have appeared unthinkable when you consider the player's efforts to engineer the move. Good striker options are thin on the ground this Summer, and while it would seem like we used the Sesko/Gyokores pivot to put pressure on Sporting (potential pivot to Sesko if things didn't work with Gyok), our unsettling of the player, combined with pre-season now having started and it appearing pretty clear that Gyok is the only game in town seems to have backfired. Our need is so pressing that it seems strange if we are haggling over small sums.

Elsewhere it seems as though we are back to leaving it late in the window to try to get value...something that has royally backfired on us in the past...

Again I hope I'm wrong...

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm not that prone to speculation, but something is going on with the Gyokores deal. Sporting are clearly not making it easy, but from the outside they have backed Arsenal into a corner that might have appeared unthinkable when you consider the player's efforts to engineer the move. Good striker options are thin on the ground this Summer, and while it would seem like we used the Sesko/Gyokores pivot to put pressure on Sporting (potential pivot to Sesko if things didn't work with Gyok), our unsettling of the player, combined with pre-season now having started and it appearing pretty clear that Gyok is the only game in town seems to have backfired. Our need is so pressing that it seems strange if we are haggling over small sums.

Elsewhere it seems as though we are back to leaving it late in the window to try to get value...something that has royally backfired on us in the past...

Again I hope I'm wrong...


The disagreement from what I can understand is about the difference between what the selling club gets when the player has x amount of appearances for the club, scores x amount of goals, wins certain trophies etc and guaranteed money now that Sporting want no matter what. I think the difference in figure represents what Arsenal want to keep to use for other signings, now of course that’s no less speculative than conspiracy nonsense but I do try at least to paint a picture of what’s most likely (given the available information)

[IBK]

I think these are all reasonable points and I think it’s understandable within reason to be frustrated (with Gyokeres I personally don’t care all that much but that’s personal bias against signing the player). I do think it’s fair to say though that when it comes to transfer negotiations and how they are conducted, we are on here about as well versed in them as we are in conversational mandarin (someone is going to point out that they can do that to piss on that example I just know :lol:)
The other point is if the negotiations are the same as the late Wenger era, then that would be a signal that there’s not much we can do but hope for the best. Reading an article today that reinforces my belief that the Kroenkes want the club to take as minimum risk as possible when it comes to spending, and that it’s Arteta who has convinced them to push the boat out more. This would be consistent with his statement this morning that the club needs reinforcement still both in strength and quality, and if we suppose we don’t get it….Arteta may become quite outspoken about it even if only to cover up his own shortcomings (which is no different to most coaches)
The disagreement with Sporting seems to be on the amount of money we offer up front, which suggests to me that we are reluctant to do this because of potential impact on other signings, a barrier that may well not have been there with Madueke as Chelsea probably only feel they need the equivalent of an IOU to convince UEFA they are meeting their FFP commitments

The sad fact is, whilst it’s probably more comforting to believe in the unique ineptitude of Arteta and other members of Arsenal staff (because that’s more changeable). It’s far more likely that we are restricted in what we can do (in the way Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City aren’t) because KSE are hugely risk avoidant. Arsenal works for them as an asset as long as it’s making the champions league, anything else is all risk no reward from their perspective

:gp: Very sage points, and I agree that the handbrake is being applied by KSE, and not the result of any ineptitude on the part of the manager or Berta and his team. My belief is that the owners see success as a nice to have rather than an imperative - and are intrinsically risk-averse, which is bad news for any real feel good factor around our club.

[Mac76]

It's total BS to blame the owners - these guys paid £100m+ on ONE PLAYER when asked

they quite palpably (and misguidedly) place their trust in those they appoint - in this case Berta and Arteta - to be both competent in getting deals done and also to choose the right players.

It's not the Kroenke's fault if we go and pay asking price for Madueke then argue ad inifinitum over small print regarding the biggest signing we need to make this summer

[HCZ_Reborn]

:gp: Very sage points, and I agree that the handbrake is being applied by KSE, and not the result of any ineptitude on the part of the manager or Berta and his team. My belief is that the owners see success as a nice to have rather than an imperative - and are intrinsically risk-averse, which is bad news for any real feel good factor around our club.

Sadly, I 100% agree with this

[Mac76]

Sadly, I 100% agree with this

Rank hypocrisy

you used to attack Arteta on a daily basis, you even said you 'hated' him - now you defend him and agree with IBK's demonstrably inaccurate statement that the transfer issues are"not the result of any ineptitude on the part of the manager "

was it Kroenke who decided to sign Merino? or Calafiori? or indeed most of this summer's defensive signings which you've said were unnecessary?

or Madueke for full price?

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://x.com/duncancastles/status/1947289677863481531?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

This seems slightly different from what I’ve suggested, that the club are not wanting to pay out lump sums each time Gyokeres meets a goal scoring landmark, and would rather pay fixed amount in instalments. Again people can choose to believe something silly like the coach (who I don’t like but I don’t really see how that’s relevant to anything here) is deliberately placing road blocks on a transfer that’s been mostly agreed or they can recognise that no matter what we’ve spent on individual transfers in the past, there is a level of spending which KSE do not want us to go past, because to them this represents a financial risk to their asset.

[Mac76]

he's the manager not the coach (nice try) so it makes a difference - I'm very happy to admit that maybe i go too far to say Arteta's blocking it but I wouldn't rule out his somehow playing into the intransigence - after all the Kroenkes' valuation of the 'asset' would partly be based on how much the manager rates him right?

So for them to pay full asking price, Arteta must have said 'Maduake's worth every penny of £52m so let's not bother bargaining' or equally he went to far greater lengths than most people to try to get Mudryk, and it was only Chelsea's crazy spending that stopped him

You aren't objectdive about Gyokeres but you can't tell me he's not as good a prospect as Mudryk and yet Arteta was willing to spend much more (especially with inflation taken into account) on Mudryk than he is on Gyokeres - about 10m-15m Euros difference I'd say

[HCZ_Reborn]

he's the manager not the coach (nice try) so it makes a difference - I'm very happy to admit that maybe i go too far to say Arteta's blocking it but I wouldn't rule out his somehow playing into the intransigence - after all the Kroenkes' valuation of the 'asset' would partly be based on how much the manager rates him right?

So for them to pay full asking price, Arteta must have said 'Maduake's worth every penny of £52m so let's not bother bargaining' or equally he went to far greater lengths than most people to try to get Mudryk, and it was only Chelsea's crazy spending that stopped him

You aren't objectdive about Gyokeres but you can't tell me he's not as good a prospect as Mudryk and yet Arteta was willing to spend much more (especially with inflation taken into account) on Mudryk than he is on Gyokeres - about 10m-15m Euros difference I'd say

Ok we will do this once only because surely whatever else you disagree with me on, you must agree that it’s a total waste of your time engaging, I don’t especially want to talk to you because you’re as much a time thief to me as I am to you.

I’m just going to explain my position. Arteta has stated (and it’s something I agree with him on) that we are clearly in need of numbers in the playing squad. Therefore it makes sense to conclude that the add ons we are haggling over is money we feel we’d like to be able to spend elsewhere. It’s also not a contradiction to state that there are the times the Kroenkes have been generous, but equally they want to make sure the club is not risking FSR/FFP (it’s not close at the moment but their argument is why take the risk). If Arteta outright didn’t want to sign Gyokeres, it’s unlikely we would have bid for him to begin with (me saying coach is not trying to diminish his influence, but although the roles are different the terms can be used interchangeably). The thing is we were linked with Gyokeres before Berta even came on the scene, so whilst Arteta’s preference is Sesko it seems unlikely that he would press the club to spend more (which he has by talking about what we need) and then sabotage a transfer.

I don’t think anything I’ve said about Arteta is contradicted by the above, If I said I hate him it was in a fit of pique, I openly admit I don’t like him as a coach but I don’t like you either, but if you were accused of something on here by someone else that I thought unlikely, I would say I thought it unlikely.

Not everything is a battle of wills, I’m not trying to get one over anyone. My opinion on Gyokeres is obviously completely subjective, what I’ve said above is equally an opinion. Whether you want to accept it or not is up to you, but I think what I’m saying is about what I think is the case more than what I hope to be the case (by that I mean if the problem is Arteta and Berta rather than KSE, it’s clearly an easier problem to remedy).

Can I go back to ignoring you now?

[Mac76]

Arteta has stated (and it’s something I agree with him on) that we are clearly in need of numbers in the playing squad.

:lol: gosh how bold and insightful of you, I hate to burst your balloon but you won't find anyone anywhere who would disagree with that statement


whilst Arteta’s preference is Sesko it seems unlikely that he would press the club to spend more (which he has by talking about what we need) and then sabotage a transfer.


Not at all, in January he suddenly started saying that to sign a striker was really urgent because we'd lost Jesus, which was total BS on his part which too many people bought into - a) he should have made sure we bought a striker last summer and b) failing that it should always have been a priority for him in January before the Jesus injury and c) the idea that losing Jesus, who can’t hit a barn door anyway, makes a difference is ludicrous to anyone with eyes

In other words he just bullshits to take the blame off him – tbh you can already see he’s starting to be a bit equivocal about new signings: “Andrea and the team have done an excellent job as well, trying to push everything forward. There's still a long time to go in that window. We have a [B]lot of hope that we can still improve the team. We're going to continue to try to do that.”

That’s not the same as saying “we will definitely get more new players because without them we’re winning jack shit”

He's just lining things up to say "oh dear Andrea f**ked up but never mind I made sure we got Madueke"



I don’t like you either


:haha: (sorry it just makes me laugh every time)



Not everything is a battle of wills, I’m not trying to get one over anyone.


that would be a first

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/13399693/manchester-united-transfer-news-benjamin-sesko-ollie-watkins-and-nicolas-jackson-among-striker-targets

Apparently Man U have made up their mind that they will still go into the market for a no 9, despite their favoured pick being technically available but still acting pussy whipped (seems we've still got a bit of rizz ;) ).

Let's see how long it takes them from identifying their new target to completing the deal.... as you can expect my money is on them wrapping up their signing before we do ours :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

:lol: gosh how bold and insightful of you, I hate to burst your balloon but you won't find anyone anywhere who would disagree with that statement



Not at all, in January he suddenly started saying that to sign a striker was really urgent because we'd lost Jesus, which was total BS on his part which too many people bought into - a) he should have made sure we bought a striker last summer and b) failing that it should always have been a priority for him in January before the Jesus injury and c) the idea that losing Jesus, who can’t hit a barn door anyway, makes a difference is ludicrous to anyone with eyes

In other words he just bullshits to take the blame off him – tbh you can already see he’s starting to be a bit equivocal about new signings: “Andrea and the team have done an excellent job as well, trying to push everything forward. There's still a long time to go in that window. We have a [B]lot of hope that we can still improve the team. We're going to continue to try to do that.”

That’s not the same as saying “we will definitely get more new players because without them we’re winning jack shit”

He's just lining things up to say "oh dear Andrea f**ked up but never mind I made sure we got Madueke"




:haha: (sorry it just makes me laugh every time)



that would be a first

:gp: You deserve a scout badge for seeing through the bullshit.

[HCZ_Reborn]

:lol: gosh how bold and insightful of you, I hate to burst your balloon but you won't find anyone anywhere who would disagree with that statement



Not at all, in January he suddenly started saying that to sign a striker was really urgent because we'd lost Jesus, which was total BS on his part which too many people bought into - a) he should have made sure we bought a striker last summer and b) failing that it should always have been a priority for him in January before the Jesus injury and c) the idea that losing Jesus, who can’t hit a barn door anyway, makes a difference is ludicrous to anyone with eyes

In other words he just bullshits to take the blame off him – tbh you can already see he’s starting to be a bit equivocal about new signings: “Andrea and the team have done an excellent job as well, trying to push everything forward. There's still a long time to go in that window. We have a [B]lot of hope that we can still improve the team. We're going to continue to try to do that.”

That’s not the same as saying “we will definitely get more new players because without them we’re winning jack shit”

He's just lining things up to say "oh dear Andrea f**ked up but never mind I made sure we got Madueke"




:haha: (sorry it just makes me laugh every time)



that would be a first

Of course Arteta is arse covering with statements about needing to bolster the squad, I didn’t absolve him from blame for last summer or January just gone….but something can be said with clear motivation and still be right, Arteta can equally be too eager to protect players he’s signed that have flopped and can argue the club didn’t back him when he decided only when Jesus got injured to replace him (it’s not an either or)

Just like KSE can be fairly generous with what it allows and equally there also is a ceiling we can’t cross in terms of what we spend and that means we are more inclined to offer instalments for add on clauses than agree to these lumped on fees. With wages and everything else it probably is all a juggling act, even with Liverpool their spending this summer is balanced out by their relative parsimony the previous summer.

Are we done now, frankly anything else feels like a re litigation of the past two years?

[WMUG]

I do think it’s fair to say though that when it comes to transfer negotiations and how they are conducted, we are on here about as well versed in them as we are in conversational mandarin (someone is going to point out that they can do that to piss on that example I just know :lol:)

Guilty...

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Someone next to me just made a joke....we're probably just delaying Gyokores to ensure everyone is on board with our real target all along............ Nicholas Jackson :haha:

[IBK]

It's total BS to blame the owners - these guys paid £100m+ on ONE PLAYER when asked

they quite palpably (and misguidedly) place their trust in those they appoint - in this case Berta and Arteta - to be both competent in getting deals done and also to choose the right players.

It's not the Kroenke's fault if we go and pay asking price for Madueke then argue ad inifinitum over small print regarding the biggest signing we need to make this summer



Sorry mate, but this is nonsense.


Firstly, you argue against yourself. If the reason for our apparent hesitancy in the transfer market is not because the owners have set limits on what the club can spend then why aren't we getting the deals done? It doesn't make sense - if the Kroenkes are as generous as you suggest (and trusting in Arteta and Berta) - that the club is apparently so reluctant to pay Sporting what they are demanding. Occam's Razor says that this is because funds are limited. In any event, it is not a manager's job to look after the owners' money (we got too used to Wenger doing this), it is for a manager to say who he wants to improve his team.


I promised myself that I would not return to the Madueke signing that you and others seem to have such a hard on over, but I have to make an exception here. The simple fact is that there would be no great fuss if we had signed the player for 30M. We know that we need a reliable back up for Saka (and cover in the wide positions), so whatever your thoughts on the player, the principle of strengthening here cannot reasonably be denied. Which means (on your argument) that the alleged overspend of £20M is preventing us from being able to complete the Gyokores deal. Ergo this is a funding issue. Ergo the owners are only making certain transfer funds available, and this is directing our transfer business and meaning that we are being very 'Arsenal' over most of these.

The Rice signing proves nothing. Equally relevant is the fact that Areta publicly stated his wish to sign a striker in January, and we clearly needed this. But the owners were clearly not prepared to go outside financial limits - and therefore this was kicked over to the Summer.


You blame Arteta for wasting money on the wrong players. Name me a single manager who gets all of their signings right. This is not an exact science. The obvious fact is that the manager and our sporting director are working with owners who are more cautious in their overall transfer budget than our competitors. To this degree we are at a disadvantage compared with Citeh; Chelsea and even Liverpool.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Guilty...

I remember greeting someone in a lift in Hong Kong by saying nǐ hǎo

They replied in very good English that Hong Kong is a majority Cantonese speaking region


Toss me a fricking bone :lol:

Anyway if you’ll pardon my curiosity, how come you can speak mandarin, did you work out there?, are you planning to work out there, or is there some connection to the People’s Republic in your social life or family.

Replace curiosity with being nosey and just as accurate

[Mac76]

Sorry mate, but this is nonsense.


Firstly, you argue against yourself. If the reason for our apparent hesitancy in the transfer market is not because the owners have set limits on what the club can spend then why aren't we getting the deals done? It doesn't make sense - if the Kroenkes are as generous as you suggest (and trusting in Arteta and Berta) - that the club is apparently so reluctant to pay Sporting what they are demanding. Occam's Razor says that this is because funds are limited. In any event, it is not a manager's job to look after the owners' money (we got too used to Wenger doing this), it is for a manager to say who he wants to improve his team.


I promised myself that I would not return to the Madueke signing that you and others seem to have such a hard on over, but I have to make an exception here. The simple fact is that there would be no great fuss if we had signed the player for 30M. We know that we need a reliable back up for Saka (and cover in the wide positions), so whatever your thoughts on the player, the principle of strengthening here cannot reasonably be denied. Which means (on your argument) that the alleged overspend of £20M is preventing us from being able to complete the Gyokores deal. Ergo this is a funding issue. Ergo the owners are only making certain transfer funds available, and this is directing our transfer business and meaning that we are being very 'Arsenal' over most of these.

The Rice signing proves nothing. Equally relevant is the fact that Areta publicly stated his wish to sign a striker in January, and we clearly needed this. But the owners were clearly not prepared to go outside financial limits - and therefore this was kicked over to the Summer.


You blame Arteta for wasting money on the wrong players. Name me a single manager who gets all of their signings right. This is not an exact science. The obvious fact is that the manager and our sporting director are working with owners who are more cautious in their overall transfer budget than our competitors. To this degree we are at a disadvantage compared with Citeh; Chelsea and even Liverpool.

Re the bit in bold above, other managers are other teams' fan's problem, our problem is that our manager was happy to squiff away £52m without trying to bargain at all, and now the club as a whole has less money so is having to bargain on a player we REALLY Need - that's Arteta's fault through getting his priorities wrong, not the Kroenkes

and read what i said about January again - Arteta only made those noises after Jesus got injured when it was clear to everyone else we needed someone the previous summer - a summer when he wasted the Kroenkes' money on Calafiori and Merino

do you think the Kroenkes said 'go and spend money on Merino and Calafiori'? no they trusted Arteta knew what he was doing - which he demonstrably doesn't

if you and that hypocrite want to be apologists for Arteta go ahead, it's very clear he's the one mishandling our priorities and if that means at some point the Kronkes have to instill some financial discipline then that's his fault not theirs

[IBK]

Re the bit in bold above, other managers are other teams' fan's problem, our problem is that our manager was happy to squiff away £52m without trying to bargain at all, and now the club as a whole has less money so is having to bargain on a player we REALLY Need - that's Arteta's fault through getting his priorities wrong, not the Kroenkes

and read what i said about January again - Arteta only made those noises after Jesus got injured when it was clear to everyone else we needed someone the previous summer - a summer when he wasted the Kroenkes' money on Calafiori and Merino

do you think the Kroenkes said 'go and spend money on Merino and Calafiori'? no they trusted Arteta knew what he was doing - which he demonstrably doesn't

if you and that hypocrite want to be apologists for Arteta go ahead, it's very clear he's the one mishandling our priorities and if that means at some point the Kronkes have to instill some financial discipline then that's his fault not theirs

I'm not an apologist for Arteta, and have been vocal in my criticisms of him when I feel this is merited. But equally, I do not think that the manager should bear the brunt of the blame for this Summer's transfer business or negotiations. I opened this part of the debate by expressing my frustration that the club can underwhelm both in terms of the ambition of its signings and the protracted mature of its business, that leaches the feel good feeling away. HZC's theory that this is down to the owners' caution when it comes to funding makes much more sense to me than anything else.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

One thing that needs to be said for the Madueke deal (and I'm avoiding disparaging the player now as he is one of us), why was this deal a priority?

What I mean by this is first of all he's on holiday now and not going on the tour, which was decided by the club and not him, so why the rush.

Also Arteta admitted in his latest presser, that we've got more than enough time left in the transfer window, so again, why did this deal get prioritised before a striker, something we've known we needed for over a year. Was it more important for Madueke to join the team than it was to have our striker available for the tour? Let's not forget that Gyokores and all the strikers we've been linked with have been on holiday for ages, so surely they were always going to be able to link up and join the tour over someone involved in the CWC.

I mean everyone has agreed he's going to play a secondary role so what was the rush.

Also looking at it objectively, we completed the deal when there were absolutely no transfer rumours that anyone was willing to take him on. We also knew that Chelsea had a surplus of wingers thanks to their new signings....so wouldn't it make more sense to wait till practically the end of the transfer window to ensure we got the best price seeing as Chelsea clearly had a surplus and everyone kept saying they'd need to sell players?

IMO the way we acted only makes sense if:

1. The priority is a backup for Saka and not a new striker.

2. Madueke will not be a backup for Saka and Arteta will play him ahead of everyone else on the left wing.

or

3. You've got tone deaf clowns making decisions in the club who have repeatedly shown the inability to prioritise what is needed over silly whims and supposed bargain deals.

I think its pretty clear which situation I think applies

[HCZ_Reborn]

One thing that needs to be said for the Madueke deal (and I'm avoiding disparaging the player now as he is one of us), why was this deal a priority?

What I mean by this is first of all he's on holiday now and not going on the tour, which was decided by the club and not him, so why the rush.

Also Arteta admitted in his latest presser, that we've got more than enough time left in the transfer window, so again, why did this deal get prioritised before a striker, something we've known we needed for over a year. Was it more important for Madueke to join the team than it was to have our striker available for the tour? Let's not forget that Gyokores and all the strikers we've been linked with have been on holiday for ages, so surely they were always going to be able to link up and join the tour over someone involved in the CWC.

I mean everyone has agreed he's going to play a secondary role so what was the rush.

Also looking at it objectively, we completed the deal when there were absolutely no transfer rumours that anyone was willing to take him on. We also knew that Chelsea had a surplus of wingers thanks to their new signings....so wouldn't it make more sense to wait till practically the end of the transfer window to ensure we got the best price seeing as Chelsea clearly had a surplus and everyone kept saying they'd need to sell players?

IMO the way we acted only makes sense if:

1. The priority is a backup for Saka and not a new striker.

2. Madueke will not be a backup for Saka and Arteta will play him ahead of everyone else on the left wing.

or

3. You've got tone deaf clowns making decisions in the club who have repeatedly shown the inability to prioritise what is needed over silly whims and supposed bargain deals.

I think its pretty clear which situation I think applies

That the deal was easier to complete doesn’t suggest that it was prioritised. In that it’s clear we aren’t working on one transfer at a time. You are basically saying if Madueke’s signing was held up until we signed a striker, we would have had far less agitation from the fan base and whilst I don’t disagree with that, I think that says far more about the fan base.

I think long ago it was decided what the club needed in terms of players in, players out etc. Gyokeres it seems like we kept him on the back burner till a few weeks ago because although I’m sure the position was a priority, he individually wasn’t as he was second choice to Sesko.

We didn’t prioritise a backup goalkeeper over Zubimendi, it was just an easier deal to complete because we have a good relationship with Chelsea. Now we can argue all day about whether we should have a good relationship with Chelsea, and as I absolutely despise that club you probably wouldn’t find me unsympathetic.

But additional to that Madueke and Kepa are players that Chelsea were willing to sell to keep up the pretence that they play by the rules, Zubimendi was a player Real Sociedad wanted to keep, same with Sporting Lisbon and Gyokeres. Where I think we do go wrong, is that I think we place far too high value on getting agreement with the player before going to the club, somehow believing that this gives us leverage over the club and it doesn’t.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm not an apologist for Arteta, and have been vocal in my criticisms of him when I feel this is merited. But equally, I do not think that the manager should bear the brunt of the blame for this Summer's transfer business or negotiations. I opened this part of the debate by expressing my frustration that the club can underwhelm both in terms of the ambition of its signings and the protracted mature of its business, that leaches the feel good feeling away. HZC's theory that this is down to the owners' caution when it comes to funding makes much more sense to me than anything else.

He claims that I shift the goalposts :lol:

If we are talking about areas Arteta has strengthened against where he’s neglected, he’s absolutely responsible for that. But it’s equally not an either or, Arteta is wrong for instance to prioritise defenders the way he has when we’ve had them in abundance and we were clearly lacking in forward areas.

But to prioritise one position over another is as you point out, a result of a certain degree of financial constraint. No KSE are not telling Arteta which position to strengthen they are clearly saying “this is the money we think it would be wise for you to spend on transfers and wages” and Arteta felt (as it transpired wrongly) that cover for midfield and defence which are areas which in previous seasons had been beset by injury was the most important to strengthen….he got it wrong. But the fact that KSE were concerned enough about the wage bill to the point that we left our squad as thin as it is (as a result of player sales) suggests that their priority isn’t the priority of fans (winning the major honours)

Plus blaming Arteta for the fact that Gyokeres deal hasn’t been completed seems vaguely ludicrous, as if somehow he’s micromanaging transfer negotiations himself. I know I’ve said he’s a bit of a control freak, but that’s taking things too far :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

@ regarding Madueke......

Its a Saturday Morning, the kids wake me up that they want to have cereal but we've run out of milk. I dress up, dash to the local corner shop and find out they've also run out of it and its the same all over due to some temporary disruption (IDK....the local cows observing Sabbath :shrug: ) though the owner says to me they'll get some tomorrow.

I'm pretty upset, as I am now contemplating driving to the Asda superstore 10 mins away, but as I leave the store I notice a slight discount on Pepsi and it hits me that we've only got like 3 bottles left at home.

I take the deal, head home triumphantly and the kids and the wife look bemused at the silly grin on my face. I let them know we'll get the milk tomorrow when the shop has some in stock as I can't be bothered to drive and waste petrol (it is expensive you know).

I wonder if they think I'm the best dad in the world, I mean it is Pepsi, it was available , you know you can never have enough of it ;)

Chelsea didn't necessarily need to buy Joao Pedro before the CWC, they did however, went the extra mile and thanks a lot to his contribution, they won the trophy. Definitely half of his transfer fee has already been justified and paid within a week or so of signing him, these are the kind of people that you give props to.

[HCZ_Reborn]

@ regarding Madueke......

Its a Saturday Morning, the kids wake me up that they want to have cereal but we've run out of milk. I dress up, dash to the local corner shop and find out they've also run out of it and its the same all over due to some temporary disruption (IDK....the local cows observing Sabbath :shrug: ) though the owner says to me they'll get some tomorrow.

I'm pretty upset, as I am now contemplating driving to the Asda superstore 10 mins away, but as I leave the store I notice a slight discount on Pepsi and it hits me that we've only got like 3 bottles left at home.

I take the deal, head home triumphantly and the kids and the wife look bemused at the silly grin on my face. I let them know we'll get the milk tomorrow when the shop has some in stock as I can't be bothered to drive and waste petrol (it is expensive you know).

I wonder if they think I'm the best dad in the world, I mean it is Pepsi, it was available , you know you can never have enough of it ;)

How long did you spend typing all that out?

So that analogy (I think that’s what it was, it could be a recollection of when you once went shopping on lack of sleep or a hangover) might work if we don’t end up buying a striker.

Your analogy at the moment is more, I went to the shop to buy toilet paper, I did also need toothpaste and dishwasher tablets but because I was caught short without toilet paper a while back I got angry with myself for even considering buying toothpaste and dishwasher tablets without first having bought and paid for the loo roll

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.givemesport.com/arsenal-offered-unbelievable-100000-a-week-striker-instead-of-gyokeres/

It was a joke but apparently the rumours have started :doh:

[Marc Overmars]

https://www.givemesport.com/arsenal-offered-unbelievable-100000-a-week-striker-instead-of-gyokeres/

It was a joke but apparently the rumours have started :doh:

Let’s face it, it’s perfectly within the realms of possibility that any average Chelsea player would be available to us if we wanted them.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Let’s face it, it’s perfectly within the realms of possibility that any average Chelsea player would be available to us if we wanted them.

I want to say just because it’s conceivable doesn’t mean it’s likely but I did that with Madueke.

Madueke is one thing, but needing a striker and coming up with Nicholas Jackson because it’s easier to shop at Chelsea, yes I think would raise the question. What the fuck are we doing.

Edit - Fabrizio Romano try as he might is no Ornstein and never will be, but last five minutes he’s spoken about progress being made in the Gyokeres deal. I think Sporting are under pressure because of bringing in his replacement, they call it hard ball I call it playing at silly buggers

[Mac76]

Let’s face it, it’s perfectly within the realms of possibility that any average Chelsea player would be available to us if we wanted them.

...and that we would be dumb enough to buy them

[Mac76]

Amongst all the hype and speculation, some interesting facts from a transfer story i saw - Gyokeres is much more reliable injury-wise than Isak, no surprise given he's built like a tank


Season Games missed
Alexander Isak (2023/24) 12
Viktor Gyokeres (2023/24) 0
Alexander Isak (2024/25) 9
Viktor Gyokeres (2024/25) 3

[Mac76]

How long did you spend typing all that out?


more hypocrisy from someone who floods the board with really long TLDR posts - this relaunch of yours as Mr Normal really is a joke

[HCZ_Reborn]

more hypocrisy from someone who floods the board with really long TLDR posts - this relaunch of yours as Mr Normal really is a joke

See this is why I have you on ignore. I actually have the honesty to admit I don’t like you (or to be specific do not like the person you come across as on here), you pretend to be above the fray and yet these kind of snarky little comments come from you all the time….kind of betray the opposite. And don’t pretend it’s just in response to my own snark, you constantly do it.

Yes I write lots of long posts (which you and the person to which I was replying to are only too quick to point out). But I think we can safely say that I’m not the only person to write long and convoluted points.

I’m not mr normal I’m not mr sensible, but on certain things I’d prefer to approach them from a rational stand point rather than just rage and make up things (because your opinion that Arteta is trying to engineer the collapse of the Gyokeres transfer is certainly no less absurd than my claims about him based on the Amazon documentary)

[Mac76]

And don’t pretend it’s just in response to my own snark, you constantly do it.



No, it's just now and again, but there are times when you're just so blindingly contradictory it's hard to not just simply point it out

it undermines everything else you say



Yes I write lots of long posts


so why have a go at someone else for doing the same thing?

[HCZ_Reborn]

No, it's just now and again, but there are times when you're just so blindingly contradictory it's hard to not just simply point it out

it undermines everything else you say



so why have a go at someone else for doing the same thing?

I can assure it’s not now and again, if it was I would have far less of a problem with it.

And it’s less about what you’re doing than the way you do it. And yes I admit I’m guilty of it at times.

But take yesterday, of course I’ve raged against Arteta in the past…some of it more justified than others. But maybe in these posts that you regard as TLDR, what you didn’t read is where I’ve previously stated that KSE whilst it can be generous with money and would like us to win things, won’t go all out in order to turn winning things into a reality.

You spoke about how Arteta has prioritised a certain type of player over another, again nothing that I haven’t said myself

But at the risk of repeating myself, two things can be true at once. I stated I believe the reason the Gyokeres deal is or at least has been stuck in the mud is because of Sporting’s insistence on more cash up front, cash I think we’d rather use on other players. And maybe that if KSE weren’t so risk adverse, we’d take the hit from these up front payments and still have the money to reinforce elsewhere.

And this is consistent with my argument that because I felt we didn’t need a defender (an argument you clearly disagree with) that money was being spent on a position we didn’t need. I didn’t feel so strongly about Madueke because I think we are buying a player in a position we do need.

Where as your automatic belief, is “bollocks that’s totally different from what you’ve argued before (I don’t think it is) you’re just trying to make yourself look more reasonable compared to other people on here”


Now I ask you, in the years we’ve been pointlessly bickering….have I ever placed a high premium on appearing reasonable if I thought I was right about something. It just so happens that IBK has the same opinion as me, so it was easier to let him argue with you than doing it myself.

But past this point I can only say believe what you like because you will anyway, just as I’ll believe what I like about your motivations etc

[IBK]

That the deal was easier to complete doesn’t suggest that it was prioritised. In that it’s clear we aren’t working on one transfer at a time. You are basically saying if Madueke’s signing was held up until we signed a striker, we would have had far less agitation from the fan base and whilst I don’t disagree with that, I think that says far more about the fan base.

I think long ago it was decided what the club needed in terms of players in, players out etc. Gyokeres it seems like we kept him on the back burner till a few weeks ago because although I’m sure the position was a priority, he individually wasn’t as he was second choice to Sesko.

We didn’t prioritise a backup goalkeeper over Zubimendi, it was just an easier deal to complete because we have a good relationship with Chelsea. Now we can argue all day about whether we should have a good relationship with Chelsea, and as I absolutely despise that club you probably wouldn’t find me unsympathetic.

But additional to that Madueke and Kepa are players that Chelsea were willing to sell to keep up the pretence that they play by the rules, Zubimendi was a player Real Sociedad wanted to keep, same with Sporting Lisbon and Gyokeres. Where I think we do go wrong, is that I think we place far too high value on getting agreement with the player before going to the club, somehow believing that this gives us leverage over the club and it doesn’t.

This. It's ludicrous that some Gooners are now criticising the order in which transfers are completed. And equally ludicrous to suggest that because the Madueke deal got done quickly, this is evidence that it was prioritised over a striker.

[Mac76]

This. It's ludicrous that some Gooners are now criticising the order in which transfers are completed. And equally ludicrous to suggest that because the Madueke deal got done quickly, this is evidence that it was prioritised over a striker.

Well there's a perfectly sound argument to say they prioritised Madueke, namely because they paid the full asking price - whereas with Gyokeres we're haggling over as little as £2.5m if some reports are to be believed.

So why not just pay what Sporting asked when we were happy to do so with Chelsea? It's reported that Chelsea really need to sell players or some of their new signings won't be eligible for the CL, so why didn't we even attempt to use that as leverage?

Unless you can answer that question then you have to accept some people find it odd / frustrating / a sign of incompetence or warped priorities - take your pick

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well the sticking point with Gyokeres is not the transfer fee itself but the structure of payments and of bonus clauses. It’s not unreasonable to suggest that a club like Chelsea that only cares about maintaining the facade that it’s complying with FSR/FFP is going to be less of a stickler over the structuring of a deal than Sporting Lisbon who actually came very near the financial abyss fifteen years ago, and is more minded to be careful about its finances.

And yes I did just look that up about Sporting, although I do remember there was an issue with players not getting paid wages or bonuses over missing out on champions league football (how long ago that was I couldn’t say).

I think if the argument was the club is less efficient than it could be at getting the more complicated deals over the line that would be an argument with merit, but given we’ve been chasing Sesko since the start of June and then turned to Gyokeres after i don’t think we prioritised a winger over a striker, I just think we saw an easier deal to complete and went for it

[Mac76]

Yes it is around add-ons but one of the reported sticking points was around our needing to pay them an extra £2.5m if he played in 20 games - which we thought was too easy to achieve...

FFS who cares just 'kin agree Arsenal damn it

[IBK]

Well the sticking point with Gyokeres is not the transfer fee itself but the structure of payments and of bonus clauses. It’s not unreasonable to suggest that a club like Chelsea that only cares about maintaining the facade that it’s complying with FSR/FFP is going to be less of a stickler over the structuring of a deal than Sporting Lisbon who actually came very near the financial abyss fifteen years ago, and is more minded to be careful about its finances.

And yes I did just look that up about Sporting, although I do remember there was an issue with players not getting paid wages or bonuses over missing out on champions league football (how long ago that was I couldn’t say).

I think if the argument was the club is less efficient than it could be at getting the more complicated deals over the line that would be an argument with merit, but given we’ve been chasing Sesko since the start of June and then turned to Gyokeres after i don’t think we prioritised a winger over a striker, I just think we saw an easier deal to complete and went for it

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It appears clear that our valuation re Madueke was met, but that Sporting have not agreed our valuation re Gyokores. This is for me the straightforward reason why one deal has been done, and not the other. It makes more sense than your argument that Madueke was prioritised over a striker.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Ornstein the Oracle is saying Gyokeres is basically done and imminent.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ornstein the Oracle is saying Gyokeres is basically done and imminent.

The sooner the better, he might even still be able to take some part in the tour.

Apparently Mosquera just jetted off to join them.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The sooner the better, he might even still be able to take some part in the tour.

Apparently Mosquera just jetted off to join them.

I read something on Twitter claiming that the reason for the delay with Mosquera was something discovered in the medical (could of course be complete bollocks)

Maybe he’s got this Vestigial being in his chest, like Quato from Total Recall

[KSE Comedy Club]

I read something on Twitter claiming that the reason for the delay with Mosquera was something discovered in the medical (could of course be complete bollocks)

Maybe he’s got this Vestigial being in his chest, like Quato from Total Recall


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCGzUpBsp3U

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sorry if this also sounds a bit negative but I think the purchase of Mosquera is more than just defensive cover, I think he’s meant to be a replacement for Saliba.

I don’t mean Saliba will be sold this summer, but read that spending this summer is meant to be offset by big player sale next summer. I think Saliba most likely that big player sale.


Just a theory at this point of course

[HCZ_Reborn]

Xhaka on the verge of signing for Sunderland, that’s them fucked :lol:

[IBK]

Sorry if this also sounds a bit negative but I think the purchase of Mosquera is more than just defensive cover, I think he’s meant to be a replacement for Saliba.

I don’t mean Saliba will be sold this summer, but read that spending this summer is meant to be offset by big player sale next summer. I think Saliba most likely that big player sale.


Just a theory at this point of course

In which case sensible planning - we always need to contemplate our important players leaving, and I suspect that if we don't win anything again next season this will be a real risk.

[HCZ_Reborn]

In which case sensible planning - we always need to contemplate our important players leaving, and I suspect that if we don't win anything again next season this will be a real risk.

I think he might go regardless. I mean I’d rather he didn’t but I don’t think it would be the end of the world and I agree if Mosquera is a replacement so to speak, it reflects forward planning which is good.

There are some players who I think will be with us for their entire career (Saka for example) I don’t think Saliba is one of those and I think whatever we win or don’t win, I think he will want to play for Real Madrid whilst he’s still at his peak

As long as we get plenty of money for him, I wouldn’t massively begrudge him the move

[Mac76]

In which case sensible planning - we always need to contemplate our important players leaving, and I suspect that if we don't win anything again next season this will be a real risk.

Yes if we fail again this season ('fail' being relative to expectations that is) there could be a mass exodus next summer if players like Saka, Saliba, Gabriel etc think they need to go elsewhere to win something, or even just fancy a change of scenery and there's no culture of winning here to prevent them

[Mac76]

It sounds like Gyokeres might be nearly done, let's hope so

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It sounds like Gyokeres might be nearly done, let's hope so

Yup, papers are reporting we have a jet on standby to fly him to Singapore to do the medical.....drama queens :lol:

[Mac76]

if you look below the crap about The Special One, there's a good comparison between Nunez and Gyok , showing Gyok comes out much better

https://tbrfootball.com/jose-mourinho-shares-what-he-honestly-feels-about-viktor-gyokeres-after-arsenal-agree-62-4m-transfer/

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Well here is another good tactical and personal writeup about Goku. TBH I have enjoyed the way the Sky team has been analysing players recently, but I think what's more interesting in this particular writeup is the bit on his personality from one of his previous coaches.

In summary it suggests we're getting a player with an actual personality and an ego that could be Henryesque. That might not be a good thing with someone like Arteta at the reins, but really we need to shake things up a bit with less yesmen.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/13394339/viktor-gyokeres-to-arsenal-sporting-cp-striker-is-a-physical-machine-but-is-he-really-the-forward-to-guide-the-gunners-to-glory

[Mac76]

Well here is another good tactical and personal writeup about Goku. TBH I have enjoyed the way the Sky team has been analysing players recently, but I think what's more interesting in this particular writeup is the bit on his personality from one of his previous coaches.

In summary it suggests we're getting a player with an actual personality and an ego that could be Henryesque. That might not be a good thing with someone like Arteta at the reins, but really we need to shake things up a bit with less yesmen.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/13394339/viktor-gyokeres-to-arsenal-sporting-cp-striker-is-a-physical-machine-but-is-he-really-the-forward-to-guide-the-gunners-to-glory

Completely agree, I actually welcomed us getting Trossard for that reason, some people said he was 'trouble' but he just wants to play and will fight to get it - Arteta says the same and unusually seems to tolerate it with Leo, so maybe he sees Gyok as the same kind of personality and gets it

[KSE Comedy Club]

if you look below the crap about The Special One, there's a good comparison between Nunez and Gyok , showing Gyok comes out much better

https://tbrfootball.com/jose-mourinho-shares-what-he-honestly-feels-about-viktor-gyokeres-after-arsenal-agree-62-4m-transfer/

Well with all the stuff about Goku not being good enough, he is always compared to Nunez for example, people seem to forget that there have been other players that have come from Portugal & Sporting in particular that have been very successful.

Most notably:

Luis Figo
Christiano Ronaldo
Bruno Fernandes (until Utd became shit)

So there is a good chance he will be a great player for us.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Completely agree, I actually welcomed us getting Trossard for that reason, some people said he was 'trouble' but he just wants to play and will fight to get it - Arteta says the same and unusually seems to tolerate it with Leo, so maybe he sees Gyok as the same kind of personality and gets it

He will be fine when he's watching Goku start banging goals in :good:

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13396301/viktor-gyokeres-transfer-news-arsenal-agree-deal-with-sporting-as-striker-heads-to-london-to-finalise-contract

I have as I’ve had for ages severe reservations about this signing, and I think with any striker it needs to be supplemented by more creativity in midfield. Martinelli is a player for transition play (and ideally we need to be in front to begin with to be doing that) so we need a player for me who can play either on the wing or left central midfield so an Eze, Simons or albeit unlikely tempting Villa to part with Morgan Rodgers would improve things.

Anyway despite it not being the player I wanted at all, I think we probably can all agree we are relieved it’s done with because was beginning to think this is just a saga now

[Mac76]

He will be fine when he's watching Goku start banging goals in :good:

indeed - it's looking like we could even see an announcement today - fingers crossed, then we can get on with the Eze signing ;)

[Marc Overmars]

It is being reported that Isak wants to leave.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It is being reported that Isak wants to leave.

He should have made his intentions clearer earlier.... no big club is still hunting for a striker except Man U who can't afford him.

[Mac76]

It sounds like Liverpool could go for him, tbh I'm relaxed about it, he's got a patchy fitness record and it could hamper them in years to come to have paid say £120m plus big wages

[HCZ_Reborn]

It is being reported that Isak wants to leave.

Yeah I’m thinking at this point that it’s Saudi Arabia or bust for him

As someone else here said, probably would have helped if he’d made his intentions clearer earlier

[KSE Comedy Club]

I've just seen a tweet that has supposedly come via Ornstein, that Isak waited for us to sign Goku before he announced his intention to leave so that Newcastle couldn't sell him to us


https://x.com/JBTFooty/status/1948368024635146360?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet


What ?????

[KSE Comedy Club]

Apparently us and chelsea were informed two weeks ago that Isak only wants LFC :shrug:

[Mac76]

fine by me, as above I'm happy with Gyokeres, Isak is a little injury prone and I think to have backtracked on Gyokeres at this stage would have been pretty shoddy IMO, if we'd done it to chase after Isak

[HCZ_Reborn]

Mosquera has officially signed

[dazthegooner]

There's an analysis of him on Skysports looks like we've got a quality player.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

So an update on all things Madueke:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6513121/2025/07/24/arsenal-noni-madueke-homegrown-players/

So apparently he does qualify as homegrown in the EPL but won't in the CL.

@IBK

Also, though it's not been confirmed yet, it seems we actually signed him on the same salary he was at Chelsea i.e. 50k a week, which really surprises me.

Firstly it makes a little more sense now why our suits rushed the deal...in the long run it's actually not that expensive seeing he's on a 1/3 of the salary of Martinelli and even cheaper than Trossard! So it seems you had a point afterall on us not having enough info on the club's valuation.

Secondly, though I've been one of his hardest critics and firmly in the camp of "WTF did we do this deal" , I'm taken aback by him personally forsaking his final match (and medal) at the CWC and actively choosing to join us seeing as I seriously doubt now that Chelsea pushed him out, seeing as his wages represent a pittance to them.

Anyway, let's see what he does on the pitch, but I'm officially wiping the slate clean thanks to this info... that's of course until they reveal the Chav whose been making the "I know what you did last summer" calls and hoarding the dirty pics of Arteta and Kronke jnr at that slumber party ;)

[HCZ_Reborn]

According to the Metro I think it was, we wanted him last summer but the board didn’t want to sanction the move (wasn’t sure about the player) which is probably why we ended up with Sterling instead

[Mac76]

So an update on all things Madueke:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6513121/2025/07/24/arsenal-noni-madueke-homegrown-players/

So apparently he does qualify as homegrown in the EPL but won't in the CL.

@IBK

Also, though it's not been confirmed yet, it seems we actually signed him on the same salary he was at Chelsea i.e. 50k a week, which really surprises me.

Firstly it makes a little more sense now why our suits rushed the deal...in the long run it's actually not that expensive seeing he's on a 1/3 of the salary of Martinelli and even cheaper than Trossard! So it seems you had a point afterall on us not having enough info on the club's valuation.

Secondly, though I've been one of his hardest critics and firmly in the camp of "WTF did we do this deal" , I'm taken aback by him personally forsaking his final match (and medal) at the CWC and actively choosing to join us seeing as I seriously doubt now that Chelsea pushed him out, seeing as his wages represent a pittance to them.

Anyway, let's see what he does on the pitch, but I'm officially wiping the slate clean thanks to this info... that's of course until they reveal the Chav whose been making the "I know what you did last summer" calls and hoarding the dirty pics of Arteta and Kronke jnr at that slumber party ;)

I don't think you can assume Chelsea didn't push him out just because his wages are relatively 'low' - as I've said before my understanding is they need to offload some players in order that newer signings (e.g. Delap) can play in the CL (not entirely sure why but that's what people are saying, something to do with squad size maybe)

I didn't know he left ahead of the CWC final but that just proves he for one realised it was BS, maybe he didn't want to share the stage with Orange Man :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I don't think you can assume Chelsea didn't push him out just because his wages are relatively 'low' - as I've said before my understanding is they need to offload some players in order that newer signings (e.g. Delap) can play in the CL (not entirely sure why but that's what people are saying, something to do with squad size maybe)

I didn't know he left ahead of the CWC final but that just proves he for one realised it was BS, maybe he didn't want to share the stage with Orange Man :lol:

Well Mac, if you remember at the time, even while we were speaking with him and the rumours were swirling, Maresca made it clear that the player was wanted and he was in no mood to entertain any distractions.

Once we agreed the deal, again he stated publicly that it was the player that pushed for it. A bit similar to how we got Trossard, though Chelsea were in a far stronger position than Brighton to hold on to their player.

Also there were quite a few rumours about him not getting on that well with Marseca, falling foul of the rules a few times and poor performances in training. I just hope he knows Arteta is going to be far stricter than anything he witnessed under Enzo.

But you are right that Chelsea do need to sell some players to appease UEFA (they are fine with EPL FFP rules), but I doubt Madueke was identified as one of the players that needed to go initially.


https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/transfer-news/enzo-maresca-makes-honest-noni-32012971

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/nobody-told-him-had-leave-054924269.html

[Marc Overmars]

Gyokeres announcement is expected over the weekend where he’ll join up with the squad in Singapore.

So that just leaves possibly one more signing, Eze maybe? Would make what is currently an excellent window into a great one.

You’d think we will see some exits soon too.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well Mac, if you remember at the time, even while we were speaking with him and the rumours were swirling, Maresca made it clear that the player was wanted and he was in no mood to entertain any distractions.

Once we agreed the deal, again he stated publicly that it was the player that pushed for it. A bit similar to how we got Trossard, though Chelsea were in a far stronger position than Brighton to hold on to their player.

Also there were quite a few rumours about him not getting on that well with Marseca, falling foul of the rules a few times and poor performances in training. I just hope he knows Arteta is going to be far stricter than anything he witnessed under Enzo.

But you are right that Chelsea do need to sell some players to appease UEFA (they are fine with EPL FFP rules), but I doubt Madueke was identified as one of the players that needed to go initially.


https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/transfer-news/enzo-maresca-makes-honest-noni-32012971

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/nobody-told-him-had-leave-054924269.html

Yep, Chelsea did have to make player sales (which is why I was mainly against the move, I don’t want to help them get out of a financial hole of their own making) but it was also why I said the deal was likely to have been a relatively easy one. They weren’t going to demand clauses and cash up front etc because they just want to make it appear like they are keeping in line with FFP.

[Mac76]

...and the other thing that made it easy was Arsenal seemingly just agreeing to the fee Chelsea demanded without any haggling - yes the wages are 'low' but still they should bargain over any player as a matter of principle, after all there was no sign anyone else was in for him

[Mac76]

Gyokeres announcement is expected over the weekend where he’ll join up with the squad in Singapore.

So that just leaves possibly one more signing, Eze maybe? Would make what is currently an excellent window into a great one.

You’d think we will see some exits soon too.

Yes, definitely - to make it a great window I think we need one more offensive signing (hopefully Eze), plus sell Zin :lol:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yes, definitely - to make it a great window I think we need one more offensive signing (hopefully Eze), plus sell Zin :lol:

Eze and there is still a chance of a late move for Rodrygo.

I think it was Ornstein or Jacobs that said any move for Eze would be on top of a LW and not instead of.

[Mac76]

Interesting, if we can sell some players I guess that's achievable.

Apparently Ethan played at R8 the other night, so if he's the Odegaard alternative then that would mean Eze would be tricky to fit in but I'd still be up for it, we need more chaos/unpredictability

I think we only move on a LW if one of Leo/Martinelli goes but if they're confident they could make that happen (probably Leo) then they could go for it. I'd be sorry to see Leo go though, I think he's tried as hard as anyone over the last few seasons and it' s a bit tough if he doesn't get to lift a trophy before leaving

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I've recently gone sour on Trossard due to his attitude, but games like Wednesday's makes me appreciate the differences between the two, and that Martinelli is a problem that won't be fixed under Arteta, and I believe deep down Arteta knows it.

So in short, though I'd love to change the dynamic on the left, getting rid of Leo and leaving Martinelli, doesn't seem the more beneficial move in the short term.

If we buy someone really capable and proven on the left, then that changes things.

As for the right, Saka does play better when he's got White and Odegaard backing him up, the understanding between the 3 is almost telepathic.

[Marc Overmars]

Martinelli lacks chemistry with those around him. He’s never had a left back who’ll overlap nor has had a ball playing left sided CM. So the end result is the head down and run player we’ve got now. I would be sad to see him sold but I just don’t think he’s going to explode into the player we thought he could have been. I think one more tepid season from him and he’ll be a prime candidate to cash in on next summer.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Martinelli lacks chemistry with those around him.He’s never had a left back who’ll overlap nor has had a ball playing left sided CM. So the end result is the head down and run player we’ve got now. I would be sad to see him sold but I just don’t think he’s going to explode into the player we thought he could have been. I think one more tepid season from him and he’ll be a prime candidate to cash in on next summer.

You're forgetting the first season we challenged under Arteta where both he and Saka contributed almost equally.

Zinchenko was at his best then with a much improved Xhaka, and I still believe that's the best team we've had under Arteta and our best chance of winning the league as goals rained from every angle and we were extremely balanced.

Anyway, the fact that he needs others to ensure he's able to operate at just a normal level is an indictment and quite telling if you ask me as even when White and Odegaard have been out for a considerable amount of time we were still able to get some output from Saka, who also shows that he's able to adapt in the national setup, unlike Martinelli.

I do agree with your conclusion though but I don't think waiting one more season is going to make a difference and would love us to sort out the left once and for all with a quality signing and move Martinelli while we can still get good money for him.

Edit: just a sample of his market value curve below

https://www.transfermarkt.com/gabriel-martinelli/marktwertverlauf/spieler/655488

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Goku is getting ready to wear the no14.....I'd prefer he didn't, though if he feels he can carry the weight, good for him.

[Marc Overmars]

Goku is getting ready to wear the no14.....I'd prefer he didn't, though if he feels he can carry the weight, good for him.

Nketiah’s big shoes to fill. :bow:

[dazthegooner]

And if all goes well his first match will be against the spuds.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

And if all goes well his first match will be against the spuds.

I thought we had Newcastle on Sunday....or is that too early :shrug: