Summer Transfers 2025 Missed Opportunities and Regrets

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I’m confused, you’ve more or less admitted what I’ve said to you. And Yes I view it as you being relentlessly negative because I think you portray things in the most negative light, and because you start out with the first principle of “I believe this club is not run properly” . I conversely don’t believe the club is run badly, I think it makes decisions that I disagree with or from time to time seem objectively self defeating.

Do I think it’s run as well as it could be, No…but neither do I accept your appraisal which seems to view it all from a disastrous lens.

So basically our impasse is that you don’t like how I characterise your view, which is of course something you’re right to do.

But I’m not here to evangelise and presumably you’re not either, it seems to me that you resent that I don’t see things as you do. If I did I wouldn’t argue with you. Sometimes I have misconstrued what you’re saying and I get it wrong, but if I disagree with people here I’m going to say so.

I’m not going to go back to childish insults because they are unnecessary and get us nowhere. But it’s true to say that not only do we fundamentally disagree on our analysis of the club, we disagree on what a club should behave like.

And if you want to look at it like I’m refusing to see the truth of things, well I’ll explain why I think you’re wrong but you’ll believe what you want to (as everyone else here including myself will also do).

Dude, I think we can count, on probably one hand, how many times anyone manages to change anyone's opinion on anything on here, so I doubt that is the aim of every argument you get into, as it is definitely not my aim.

However there are somethings that become self evident and people turn out to universally agree. An early example was the AW cult we had in this club for a significant period of time....which culminated in rash silly statements like Hillwood made where he said, at that time, he has "a job for life". Things like this ulitimately turned out to be unhelpful, detrimental to our aspirations and leave resentment (at least on AW's side). This is universally agreed now, but wasn't earlier. However this never made me question if Peter Hillwood was a fan of the club (though he clearly also loved what AW and the club had done to his personal fortune, which some fans kept conveniently ignoring).


The striker debate was a recent one. Some people on here were comfortable with Arteta heading into the season with no one who saw themselves as a striker (Jesus has denied being one multiple times, and Havertz, well he is Havertz). Some even poured out football treatise on how a striker is not important in the modern game as written by Guardiola with the foreward by Barcelona :lol: At least now almost everyone agrees that it was a stupid idea to leave yourself so exposed for +60 game season.

In short, the aim of discussions is to state your peace and move on. Sometimes you'll get it right, other times you'll get it wrong and once in a while someone brilliant will change your mind (we have less of them on here nowadays, miss the likes of PnG)....at the end of the day it's only logical for me to assume at some point that practically everyone on here wants the best for Arsenal in their way and that includes our resident Liverpool fan :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

By your own words though you’ve been beating this drum for years, and I don’t think that you have universal assent to your view that the club is run badly. And frankly, I’d be more concerned if we became the kind of club that you’d define as well run. Because I fear it might either become insolvent or end up facing criminal proceedings :lol:.

I think the club today is run far better than five to ten years ago, when we have shoddy individuals like Ivan Gazidis and then after him Raul Sanhelhi running the show. But equally I think things were better when David Dein and Danny Fiszman ran the show.

Do I think KSE are good owners? I mean depends how you’re defining good. Are they running the club with the first and paramount interest being to putting this club in a position it can win everything? Sadly not. And that’s because that’s not its first priority and sadly unless you have owners for who a football club is a rich man’s play thing that largely isn’t the first priority. That’s lamentable but it’s just an accurate reflection of football being less a sport and more a commodity. Whilst I don’t agree with all of NQ’s analysis which is very rose tinted, no one denies that the heart of the game has been torn out through greed.

However neither do I think they are openly obstructing our path to success in the same way that Levy and ENIC are doing at Spurs (a sentiment I imagine most Spurs fans would probably share). A spurs fan said to me on Friday that although their league finish was indefensible that the sacking of Postecoglou represented that the 4th place trophy was far more important to the board than actual silverware.

The club has been quite generous with money to Arteta and I think (whilst I probably don’t agree with all his characterisations) that as Mac pointed out in an earlier post, it hasn’t always been invested wisely. Fortunately the real flops have by and large been cheaper than the successful players, there has been an obsession with what I call Goldilocks positions namely the left back slot

And we’ve spent embarrassingly little of that money on attacking players

I don’t think we’ve done terribly in terms of getting money for players we clearly don’t want that much. The way you’ve characterised the Tavares situation is like there’s a plot Lazio had to land Tavares on the cheap so they could sell him on for much more (which is kind of where I come into the whole framing the situation to fit a narrative)

I don’t have a narrative on this, it seems to me that our main priority is to get players we don’t want at the club off the wage bill, I think if Arteta was to be a bit more open to playing players even those he long term doesn’t favour to give them game time…it might help us make more money for them. But we aren’t at least stuck with loads of players we have no hope of selling, we’ve actually been quite good at moving on flops (with a few exceptions like Lokonga)

The club is in a good position both financially and in terms that this summer there are a few players that we could do with cutting loose but it’s far more about growing the squad than needing to blow things up and start again. And I don’t think that’s a sign of a poorly run club

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

at the end of the day it's only logical for me to assume at some point that practically everyone on here wants the best for Arsenal in their way and that includes our resident Liverpool fan :lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzonqHWUdVw

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzonqHWUdVw

:mwah:

[Marc Overmars]

Linked with Jorrel Hato.

A CB that can also play LB.

Kill me now.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Linked with Jorrel Hato.

A CB that can also play LB.

Kill me now.


There needs to be one of those what do you call it, interventions on Arteta. The kind they do with Alcoholics who think they are high functioning but they are circling the drain.

“Mikel we love you very much, but your obsession with left backs is harming everyone around you”

[Mac76]

Linked with Jorrel Hato.

A CB that can also play LB.

Kill me now.

:lol:

In all seriousness though, we now only have one player who can play at LB to any kind of competent standard - MLS

Kiwior can do an OK job there against lower-table opposition, but as we've seen his real talents lie at LCB

Tomi is always injured, and neither Zin in particular (who hopefully will be sold anyway :pray:) or Cala can defend adequately and Timber is MUCH better at RB or even CB than LB

That said if there's one defensive position that needs reinforcement its RCB, to take some minutes off Saliba

IK White or Timber can play there if necessary but given both can pick up injuries we need more cover on that side

[Mac76]

There's a few stories that we've bid for Gyokeres - hope that's true

[HCZ_Reborn]

There's a few stories that we've bid for Gyokeres - hope that's true

And I sincerely hope it’s not true

I suspect more likely that we are either flirting with the transfer to get Leipzig to lower their price, or that Sporting Lisbon are floating our names to see if United firm up their interest

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://billycarpenter.substack.com/p/scouting-strikers

Interesting read and largely backs my view that we should definitely prioritise Sesko over Gyokeres

[KSE Comedy Club]

https://billycarpenter.substack.com/p/scouting-strikers

Interesting read and largely backs my view that we should definitely prioritise Sesko over Gyokeres

That's great and all, lots of nice pie charts, etc, but the issue I have is this line in his final thoughts:


I am, and have always been, #TeamSesko. He’s been at or near the top of my list for years

So that shows a huge amount of bias, which in turn would suggest that after all his 'research' he is still picking the player he favoured anyway.

[HCZ_Reborn]

That's great and all, lots of nice pie charts, etc, but the issue I have is this line in his final thoughts:



So that shows a huge amount of bias, which in turn would suggest that after all his 'research' he is still picking the player he favoured anyway.

I didn’t claim he wasn’t biased, you’re biased, I’m biased

But he’s able to evidence his bias, yes he clearly likes Sesko and he’s able to document why

[Marc Overmars]

Liverpool agree a deal for Wirtz. A British record fee of 116m.

Very good signing.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Dunno. I think he’s an excellent player, but I look at Liverpool and what they need and think is he going to take things up a level. Goal creation is an area where they are already quite strong, and yeah I’m sure he will make things even better but their main problem is defence and with the best will in the world you can’t win every game 4-3

I’d be a lot more worried if he was going to city as a replacement for De Bruyne.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Liverpool agree a deal for Wirtz. A British record fee of 116m.

Very good signing.

An excellent signing that will definitely raise there level.

There are only two players I rate in the German side, Wirtz and Musiala, and I'm glad Bayern weren't allowed to add him to their deceptive cage.

I feel sorry for all the teams in the EPL though, Wirtz combining with an in form Salah is truly going to be something magical to behold.

[Chippy]

An excellent signing that will definitely raise there level.

There are only two players I rate in the German side, Wirtz and Musiala, and I'm glad Bayern weren't allowed to add him to their deceptive cage.

I feel sorry for all the teams in the EPL though, Wirtz combining with an in form Salah is truly going to be something magical to behold.

Lots of Liverpool "Love in's" on this Arsenal chat page :coffee:

Meh to Liverpool.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I didn’t claim he wasn’t biased, you’re biased, I’m biased

But he’s able to evidence his bias, yes he clearly likes Sesko and he’s able to document why

Indeed we are, but the problem with him stating his bias in the hypothesis means it was already there at the start of the analysis, by that token, the stats and documents can be manipulated to prove his bias is correct.

Which makes it far more questionable than robust :shrug:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Lots of Liverpool "Love in's" on this Arsenal chat page :coffee:

Meh to Liverpool.

I agree.

Fuck Wirz

Fuck Liverpool

:)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Indeed we are, but the problem with him stating his bias in the hypothesis means it was already there at the start of the analysis, by that token, the stats and documents can be manipulated to prove his bias is correct.

Which makes it far more questionable than robust :shrug:

Do you think it’s likely he’s either manipulated or falsified figures to promote a player. For what reason…he’s an Arsenal fan. Do you think if the metrics showed Gyokeres as superior he wouldn’t just say “I really like Sesko but the stats don’t lie”

Don’t get me wrong I’m not expecting anyone here to change their mind, it’s just that it’s just possible that if the club prefers Sesko it’s not for no reason.

[Chippy]

I agree.

Fuck Wirz

Fuck Liverpool

:)

:gp:

[Mac76]

IK people go on about too many defenders, and LBs especially, but this makes a lot of sense, we actually only have one player who can play LB so need cover there, plus we need to save Gabriel from playing so many minutes.

I'd be sorry to see Kiwior go but I get he will want regular first team football and if it means offloading Zin at the same time I'm sold :good:

Also agree with moving Calafiori more centrally, he can't defend at LB for sure.

https://fresharsenal.com/report-arsenal-trying-to-sign-wonderkid-to-replace-milan-bound-jakub-kiwior/

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think Calafiori can do a job at both centre back and left back. We absolutely don’t need defenders.

This is nothing more than a continuation of Arteta’s Goldilocks obsession with the left back position. Arguably every single penny of money spent needs to go to improving attack, we don’t just need a finisher we need a dribbler and technician.

I say that arguably Liverpool have improved an area of the pitch that less needed improving than other areas (such as defence) but imagine us spending proper money on an attacking midfielder.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Do you think it’s likely he’s either manipulated or falsified figures to promote a player. For what reason…he’s an Arsenal fan. Do you think if the metrics showed Gyokeres as superior he wouldn’t just say “I really like Sesko but the stats don’t lie”

Don’t get me wrong I’m not expecting anyone here to change their mind, it’s just that it’s just possible that if the club prefers Sesko it’s not for no reason.

It was a good, long read and thanks for sharing.

But I also do agree with KSE that his writeup was a bit tainted by his bias, but funnily not for Sesko, it was the extreme Havertz loving that made me wonder if I should take this guy seriously, if he's an Arsenal fan and really meant what he wrote.

To be clear, he suggested that Havertz is the superior player to both Sesko and Gyokeres and he kept on working on the assumption that Havertz would play a key role in the team and the other striker would be secondary....which by now you should know I (and a lot of others) find laughable.

Also for your point on the metrics, I think both you and KSE got your reading of it wrong. The pie charts cleary showed that Gyokeres was the superior player on a head to head in the 3 categories he used when compared to the likes of Sesko, Ekitike, Samu and Watkins. Only Isak and Alvarez compared favourably with Gyokeres in any of the categories.

He obviously ignored the stats to push his preference for Sesko, however we all do so, especially if we are convinced we've seen something that other people or stats may not be able to discern. Probably that Pinock test, as he feels Sesko scores highly in it.

For those who can't be bothered to read it , he feels we should consider how well our striker would be able to bully and standup to EPL defenders when it come to physicality, which is where he beleieves Sesko excels by his mere presence. Really his Pinnock test is just code to hide he's a Haaland fanboy.

Now at a point I also felt, like Arteta clearly does, that having tall athletic players that can win duels would tremendously help our team. But funnily, it's the author's crush, Havertz, that has kind of revealed that it isn't really as key as I thought, especially for a striker.

Now think about it. Most of the time when the ball is played to Havertz, he wins the first ball. Aerially or on the ground, Havertz usually gets a touch and I'm sure will beat almost all the strikers mentioned for the touches he takes on the ball when it's actually played to him. However if the defender happens to beat him, he tries harder than other players to win it back immediately. This is the clear skillset where Havertz excels compared to most players in general IMO.

The thing is, what does he do with the ball once he's won it? I recall the usual tame shot or clumsy touches that ensure the defender has the chance to win it back from him again. The 2 previous scenarios are things I tend to look past, but what really irks me with Havertz is when he does the 3rd thing (which as far as I'm concerned is the most damaging), which is to try and play in someone else or hold the ball long enough to play in someone else. This pisses me off royally and is the main reason I wonder how anyone who watches football properly would consider Havertz as being a proper long term alternative as your no 9.

Which finally leads me to something that IMO should be the most telling quality of whatever striker we get.....and I'll use another member of our team to illustrate this.

Saka is our most dangerous player and goal threat. He doesn't have the typical physique to pass the Pinock test but holds himself well in duels with defenders, who usually double up on him. The thing is, how many times has Saka got into the box and we shouted "you shouldn't have done that Saka"....and I mean the 3 previous things I mentioned regarding Havertz...if Saka takes a shot, it because a shot was on. If Saka tries to dribble or beat his man, it usually because he had to. If Saka holds on to the ball and delays shooting, trying to play someone in, it's because he clearly sees a player is in a more advantageous position to score....Saka never plays people in for the sake of playing people in, if he smells blood, he goes for the kill. His decision making abilities, especially on whether to hit the kill switch or not, are exceptional and usually above reproach.

This is something so many of our attackers suffer from, poor decisions in the last third.....just picture all those moments of Odegaard dithering or taking to many touches when he should be hitting the ball instinctively. While Martnelli and the previous version of Trossard share that ability to smell blood and ignore others when they see minute openings....they both aren't as good as Saka in execution or when it comes to realising sometimes that minute opening might be better served holding the ball just a little longer to play someone coming in because they are in a better position and actually likely to score.

So in short, what I am saying is our striker needs to quickly learn to instinctively make the right decisions. His shots might be tame, his dribble forced, but it should be clear that these actions were above reproach, literally the only sensible thing he could do in that instance. If he makes a hurried shot it because he knows there is no one coming to help him, which is something Havertz needs to learn is applicable to us 80% of the time . Jesus knows this but he ends up always trying to score the most intricate and beautiful goals. Our no 9 needs to recognise, that with the way we play, he is no Clark Kent, he is the Superman of the story and there are no members of the JL coming to bail him out or put the ball in the net.

This is what 100% convinces me about Gyokeres when you see him play, he understands the burden he is under in Sporting and carries it without thinking twice. His decision making is impressive from what I've seen and I believe his vast experience has probably helped mould him into this.

Unfortunately Sesko has never carried any team single handedly, neither his club side nor his national side. Though I rate him as the better all round talent, he is another WIP (his pie chart screams this) and it makes little sense to go for him because you are looking for a playground bully which EPL defenders have already adapted too and is now " sooo last season" (in my best sorority voice :lol: )

The solution is staring us right in the face and IMO we don't need to complicate things by thinking long term when we can just go for it now. Sesko is a project that we can't afford to entertain at the moment, mainly because we've been dilly dallying on the cusp for ages.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It was a good, long read and thanks for sharing.

But I also do agree with KSE that his writeup was a bit tainted by his bias, but funnily not for Sesko, it was the extreme Havertz loving that made me wonder if I should take this guy seriously, if he's an Arsenal fan and really meant what he wrote.

To be clear, he suggested that Havertz is the superior player to both Sesko and Gyokeres and he kept on working on the assumption that Havertz would play a key role in the team and the other striker would be secondary....which by now you should know I (and a lot of others) find laughable.

Also for your point on the metrics, I think both you and KSE got your reading of it wrong. The pie charts cleary showed that Gyokeres was the superior player on a head to head in the 3 categories he used when compared to the likes of Sesko, Ekitike, Samu and Watkins. Only Isak and Alvarez compared favourably with Gyokeres in any of the categories.

He obviously ignored the stats to push his preference for Sesko, however we all do so, especially if we are convinced we've seen something that other people or stats may not be able to discern. Probably that Pinock test, as he feels Sesko scores highly in it.

For those who can't be bothered to read it , he feels we should consider how well our striker would be able to bully and standup to EPL defenders when it come to physicality, which is where he beleieves Sesko excels by his mere presence. Really his Pinnock test is just code to hide he's a Haaland fanboy.

Now at a point I also felt, like Arteta clearly does, that having tall athletic players that can win duels would tremendously help our team. But funnily, it's the author's crush, Havertz, that has kind of revealed that it isn't really as key as I thought, especially for a striker.

Now think about it. Most of the time when the ball is played to Havertz, he wins the first ball. Aerially or on the ground, Havertz usually gets a touch and I'm sure will beat almost all the strikers mentioned for the touches he takes on the ball when it's actually played to him. However if the defender happens to beat him, he tries harder than other players to win it back immediately. This is the clear skillset where Havertz excels compared to most players in general IMO.

The thing is, what does he do with the ball once he's won it? I recall the usual tame shot or clumsy touches that ensure the defender has the chance to win it back from him again. The 2 previous scenarios are things I tend to look past, but what really irks me with Havertz is when he does the 3rd thing (which as far as I'm concerned is the most damaging), which is to try and play in someone else or hold the ball long enough to play in someone else. This pisses me off royally and is the main reason I wonder how anyone who watches football properly would consider Havertz as being a proper long term alternative as your no 9.

Which finally leads me to something that IMO should be the most telling quality of whatever striker we get.....and I'll use another member of our team to illustrate this.

Saka is our most dangerous player and goal threat. He doesn't have the typical physique to pass the Pinock test but holds himself well in duels with defenders, who usually double up on him. The thing is, how many times has Saka got into the box and we shouted "you shouldn't have done that Saka"....and I mean the 3 previous things I mentioned regarding Havertz...if Saka takes a shot, it because a shot was on. If Saka tries to dribble or beat his man, it usually because he had to. If Saka holds on to the ball and delays shooting, trying to play someone in, it's because he clearly sees a player is in a more advantageous position to score....Saka never plays people in for the sake of playing people in, if he smells blood, goes for the kill. His decision making abilities, especially on whether to hit the kill switch or not, are exceptional and usually above reproach.

This is something so many of our attackers suffer from, poor decisions in the last third.....just picture all those moments of Odegaard dithering or taking to many touches when he should be hitting the ball instinctively. While Martnelli and the previous version of Trossard share that ability to smell blood and ignore others when they see minute openings....they both aren't as good as Saka in execution or when it comes to realising sometimes that minute opening might be better served holding the ball just a little longer to play someone coming in because they are in a better position and actually likely to score.

So in short, what I am saying is our striker needs to quickly learn to instinctively make the right decisions. His shots might be tame, his dribble forced, but it should be clear that these actions were above reproach, literally the only sensible thing he could do in that instance. If he makes a hurried shot it because he knows there is no one coming to help him, which is something Havertz needs to learn is applicable to us 80% of the time . Jesus knows this but he ends up always trying to score the most intricate and beautiful goals. Our no 9 needs to recognise, that with the way we play, he is no Clark Kent, he is the Superman of the story and there are no members of the JL coming to bail him out or put the ball in the net.

This is what 100% convinces me about Gyokeres when you see him play, he understands the burden he is under in Sporting and carries it without thinking twice. His decision making is impressive from what I've seen and I believe his vast experience has probably helped mould him into this.

Unfortunately Sesko has never carried any team single handedly, neither his club side nor his national side. Though I rate him as the better all round talent, he is another WIP (his pie chart screams this) and it makes little sense to go for him because you are looking for a playground bully which EPL defenders have already adapted too and is now so "last season" (in my best sorority voice :lol: )

The solution is staring us right in the face and IMO we don't need to complicate things by thinking long term when we can just go for it now. Sesko is a project that we can't afford to entertain at the moment, mainly because we are so close already.

It would be easier just to say I disagree with your conclusion :lol:

I’m more of an admirer of Havertz than you are, but yeah even I thought it laid it on thick. However I do think it’s not entirely untrue to say that he’s been a decent player for us. He’s managed goals of all different kinds and as frustrating as he can be, his work rate is phenomenal as is the way at times he’s able to hold up the ball to allow others in. Whilst Musiala and Wirtz are clearly big stars for Germany, I thought Havertz was also a pivotal part of that German side in the Euros (I think they were unlucky to go out to Spain).

Was he worth the money we paid for him, well it’s all relative isn’t it. It’s a low bar but he’s clearly been worth the money we paid for him more than say the money we paid for Nicolas Pepe.

If we had our time again I wouldn’t have signed him because I think there are better players we could have signed for the money. But I like him, his attitude is good, after the first few months at the club he stopped being the wandering Jew and I saw him have real impact on games.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Sky is reporting from another source that we've made £55m bid for Gyokores which is inclusive of add ons.

Apparently both of our top targets are in the same boat. They had agreements with their clubs that they could leave for less than their release clause but both clubs have reneged....sounds a bit familiar to an argument I had earlier.

Anyway, Sesko is the one in the worst position as he was stupid enough to sign a new contract last summer when he knew we'd been chasing him since January.

Both players are reportedly unhappy with their respective clubs, with Gyokores removing Sporting from his social media and threatening to go on strike.... he probably has the most to lose if he doesn't get his move soon.

I just hope this is not another red herring situation like the Watkins bid and we go all out and do what it takes to get the right man/men.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Gyokeres situation seems pretty complicated, a lot of clauses, I like the one where the agent is already making money even if Sporting turn down our reported bid :lol:

https://www.record.pt/futebol/futebol-nacional/liga-betclic/sporting/detalhe/sporting-ameaca-exigir-100-milhoes-por-gyokeres-caso-agente-faca-uso-de-clausula-saiba-qual?ref=Sporting_DestaquesPrincipais

https://www.goal.com/en/lists/sporting-cp-prepared-hike-viktor-gyokeres-valuation-100m-transfer-standoff-man-utd-arsenal-interest/blte8dbbc1a7f6f806f#cse124b617cca19155


"I can guarantee that Viktor Gyokeres will not leave for €60m plus 10m because I never promised him that," Varandas is quoted as saying by Record. "[But] to this day, Sporting has not had an offer for Viktor Gyokeres, neither today nor last season.

"It was agreed that Sporting would not demand the release clause at the end of the following season, especially because he was going to be 27. Then, we knew Viktor's dream of going to a club where he could fight for the Champions League and we have common sense."

The quotes above are from the Sporting Chairman.. now these are the kind of ruthless suits I remember fondly.

[Mac76]

While i'd prefer Gyokeres, if Sesko was announced today i'd still welcome it, my big fear is we'll get no-one and end up taking Eddie back on loan on the last day of the window...

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

While i'd prefer Gyokeres, if Sesko was announced today i'd still welcome it, my big fear is we'll get no-one and end up taking Eddie back on loan on the last day of the window...

We'll definitely get someone....but just like you pointed out its extremely possible we don't get any of our top targets and instead make do with a laughable and overvalued compromise.

[Marc Overmars]

Gyokeres would prefer a move to us rather than United.

If there’s a chance we could sign him and Sesko then I would definitely go for it.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Gyokeres would prefer a move to us rather than United.

If there’s a chance we could sign him and Sesko then I would definitely go for it.

It seems Bayern have also decided to show interest in Sesko.

Now that he is looking more unattainable, it'll probably make Arteta want him even more!

My preference remain Gyokores, but I'd also be glad if we got both as I've maintained for ages that we need 2 proper quality strikers......and guess what, nothing stops us from selling one of them later, if things don't go to plan.

[HCZ_Reborn]

My hope is for Gyokeres to go to United

Get Sesko and if we want another striker get Ollie Watkins along with Morgan Rodgers (Villa have big financial problems)

[Mac76]

It seems Bayern have also decided to show interest in Sesko.

Now that he is looking more unattainable, it'll probably make Arteta want him even more!

My preference remain Gyokores, but I'd also be glad if we got both as I've maintained for ages that we need 2 proper quality strikers......and guess what, nothing stops us from selling one of them later, if things don't go to plan.

Both would be the optimum - that would be a genuine coup for Arsenal - failing that one of them (pref Gyokeres) plus Watkins - like you say we def need two real goalscorers

I think we've literally got £250m to spend - -we need to go for it, they'll get theri money back if/when we win some big things which we'd have a real chacne of doing with them

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Both would be the optimum - that would be a genuine coup for Arsenal - failing that one of them (pref Gyokeres) plus Watkins - like you say we def need two real goalscorers

I think we've literally got £250m to spend - -we need to go for it, they'll get theri money back if/when we win some big things which we'd have a real chacne of doing with them

Totally agree, its really now or never.

No team has finished 2nd four times in a row here, and I doubt this has happened in any of the other top leagues in Europe.

So clearly, we go all out next season to win it, or at least die trying.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Is it me or was this place down for a few hours

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Very much down.

Sadly we missed all the transfer acti....

:tumbleweed:

[KSE Comedy Club]

While i'd prefer Gyokeres, if Sesko was announced today i'd still welcome it, my big fear is we'll get no-one and end up taking Eddie back on loan on the last day of the window...

Seems we are back in for our 'plan C' target of Ollie Watkins.

Glad to see the Club are really showing their ambition :rolleyes:

[KSE Comedy Club]

It was a good, long read and thanks for sharing.

But I also do agree with KSE that his writeup was a bit tainted by his bias, but funnily not for Sesko, it was the extreme Havertz loving that made me wonder if I should take this guy seriously, if he's an Arsenal fan and really meant what he wrote.

To be clear, he suggested that Havertz is the superior player to both Sesko and Gyokeres and he kept on working on the assumption that Havertz would play a key role in the team and the other striker would be secondary....which by now you should know I (and a lot of others) find laughable.

Also for your point on the metrics, I think both you and KSE got your reading of it wrong. The pie charts cleary showed that Gyokeres was the superior player on a head to head in the 3 categories he used when compared to the likes of Sesko, Ekitike, Samu and Watkins. Only Isak and Alvarez compared favourably with Gyokeres in any of the categories.

He obviously ignored the stats to push his preference for Sesko, however we all do so, especially if we are convinced we've seen something that other people or stats may not be able to discern. Probably that Pinock test, as he feels Sesko scores highly in it.

For those who can't be bothered to read it , he feels we should consider how well our striker would be able to bully and standup to EPL defenders when it come to physicality, which is where he beleieves Sesko excels by his mere presence. Really his Pinnock test is just code to hide he's a Haaland fanboy.

Now at a point I also felt, like Arteta clearly does, that having tall athletic players that can win duels would tremendously help our team. But funnily, it's the author's crush, Havertz, that has kind of revealed that it isn't really as key as I thought, especially for a striker.

Now think about it. Most of the time when the ball is played to Havertz, he wins the first ball. Aerially or on the ground, Havertz usually gets a touch and I'm sure will beat almost all the strikers mentioned for the touches he takes on the ball when it's actually played to him. However if the defender happens to beat him, he tries harder than other players to win it back immediately. This is the clear skillset where Havertz excels compared to most players in general IMO.

The thing is, what does he do with the ball once he's won it? I recall the usual tame shot or clumsy touches that ensure the defender has the chance to win it back from him again. The 2 previous scenarios are things I tend to look past, but what really irks me with Havertz is when he does the 3rd thing (which as far as I'm concerned is the most damaging), which is to try and play in someone else or hold the ball long enough to play in someone else. This pisses me off royally and is the main reason I wonder how anyone who watches football properly would consider Havertz as being a proper long term alternative as your no 9.

Which finally leads me to something that IMO should be the most telling quality of whatever striker we get.....and I'll use another member of our team to illustrate this.

Saka is our most dangerous player and goal threat. He doesn't have the typical physique to pass the Pinock test but holds himself well in duels with defenders, who usually double up on him. The thing is, how many times has Saka got into the box and we shouted "you shouldn't have done that Saka"....and I mean the 3 previous things I mentioned regarding Havertz...if Saka takes a shot, it because a shot was on. If Saka tries to dribble or beat his man, it usually because he had to. If Saka holds on to the ball and delays shooting, trying to play someone in, it's because he clearly sees a player is in a more advantageous position to score....Saka never plays people in for the sake of playing people in, if he smells blood, he goes for the kill. His decision making abilities, especially on whether to hit the kill switch or not, are exceptional and usually above reproach.

This is something so many of our attackers suffer from, poor decisions in the last third.....just picture all those moments of Odegaard dithering or taking to many touches when he should be hitting the ball instinctively. While Martnelli and the previous version of Trossard share that ability to smell blood and ignore others when they see minute openings....they both aren't as good as Saka in execution or when it comes to realising sometimes that minute opening might be better served holding the ball just a little longer to play someone coming in because they are in a better position and actually likely to score.

So in short, what I am saying is our striker needs to quickly learn to instinctively make the right decisions. His shots might be tame, his dribble forced, but it should be clear that these actions were above reproach, literally the only sensible thing he could do in that instance. If he makes a hurried shot it because he knows there is no one coming to help him, which is something Havertz needs to learn is applicable to us 80% of the time . Jesus knows this but he ends up always trying to score the most intricate and beautiful goals. Our no 9 needs to recognise, that with the way we play, he is no Clark Kent, he is the Superman of the story and there are no members of the JL coming to bail him out or put the ball in the net.

This is what 100% convinces me about Gyokeres when you see him play, he understands the burden he is under in Sporting and carries it without thinking twice. His decision making is impressive from what I've seen and I believe his vast experience has probably helped mould him into this.

Unfortunately Sesko has never carried any team single handedly, neither his club side nor his national side. Though I rate him as the better all round talent, he is another WIP (his pie chart screams this) and it makes little sense to go for him because you are looking for a playground bully which EPL defenders have already adapted too and is now " sooo last season" (in my best sorority voice :lol: )

The solution is staring us right in the face and IMO we don't need to complicate things by thinking long term when we can just go for it now. Sesko is a project that we can't afford to entertain at the moment, mainly because we've been dilly dallying on the cusp for ages.

I was actually going to reply to HCZ about that - The stats for at least 3 of the strikers were superior to Sesko, but he ignored them and went for the guy he always liked anyway.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Totally agree, its really now or never.

No team has finished 2nd four times in a row here, and I doubt this has happened in any of the other top leagues in Europe.

So clearly, we go all out next season to win it, or at least die trying.

That's become my feelings on this wholly pathetic 'which one' saga.

Just get both of them, Gyokores for the now and Sesko for the future. Hopefully they can teach one another a thing or two and we will reap the benefits.

Trouble is we always do 'nearly enough' instead of doing whats required and a bit more to guarantee success.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Juventus now interested in Gyokeres

Bayern interested in Sesko.

This is going well I see, glad we didn't do our business quickly or we wouldn't have been treated to another drawn out transfer saga :doh:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Juventus want Gyokeres?, I was about to say but they can defend in Italy however that’s not really what I’ve seen from looking back at the season just gone in Serie A.

Certainly not what I saw from Inter in the champions league final

[Letters]

Juventus now interested in Gyokeres

Bayern interested in Sesko.

This is going well I see, glad we didn't do our business quickly or we wouldn't have been treated to another drawn out transfer saga :doh:

As much as I think you've been wringing your hands a little prematurely, I have to say it is galling to see other clubs doing business and it all seems quite quick. Maybe it isn't, maybe it's just week keep a closer eye on our sagas. But it is annoying to see other clubs announcing signings when for us every day it's rumours and speculation of people we're interested in or have made initial offers on or...

[KSE Comedy Club]

As much as I think you've been wringing your hands a little prematurely, I have to say it is galling to see other clubs doing business and it all seems quite quick. Maybe it isn't, maybe it's just week keep a closer eye on our sagas. But it is annoying to see other clubs announcing signings when for us every day it's rumours and speculation of people we're interested in or have made initial offers on or...

Indeed it is.

I was never expecting us to announce 5 players on day one of the window, but knowing that we have supposedly been doing the groundwork on a striker since last year, I would have at least expected us to get something done by now.

So far it is:
'maybe' Kepa for £5m
'maybe' Zubimendi for £50m
'Not sure which one we want' Sekso or Gyokores for £50-70m

Or Ollie Watkins as he's cheaper.

But mostly - looking, admiring, monitoring, discussing, meeting with, freezing, talking to, etc......

I thought things would be different with Berta here, but it seems to be more of the same :shrug:

Meanwhile within a week, City signed 4 players and Liverpool signed 2

[HCZ_Reborn]

Have to say don’t remotely give a fuck at the moment. I care about signing the right players not how quickly they arrive

If we sign a striker who isn’t Gyokeres (preferably two) a winger and an attacking midfielder…and we do not waste any money on a left back or any form of defender I’ll be happy.

[Letters]

Have to say don’t remotely give a fuck at the moment. I care about signing the right players not how quickly they arrive
This is the Letters' Patent Pending Wait Till The End of The Season approach.
It's one I, being Letters, generally subscribe to. And we are still quite early in the window. It's just a bit irritating seeing other clubs announce things early. We don't want these things dragging on all summer.

[Mac76]

That's become my feelings on this wholly pathetic 'which one' saga.

Just get both of them, Gyokores for the now and Sesko for the future. Hopefully they can teach one another a thing or two and we will reap the benefits.

Trouble is we always do 'nearly enough' instead of doing whats required and a bit more to guarantee success.

:gp:

[Mac76]

Indeed it is.

I was never expecting us to announce 5 players on day one of the window, but knowing that we have supposedly been doing the groundwork on a striker since last year, I would have at least expected us to get something done by now.

So far it is:
'maybe' Kepa for £5m
'maybe' Zubimendi for £50m
'Not sure which one we want' Sekso or Gyokores for £50-70m

Or Ollie Watkins as he's cheaper.

But mostly - looking, admiring, monitoring, discussing, meeting with, freezing, talking to, etc......

I thought things would be different with Berta here, but it seems to be more of the same :shrug:

Meanwhile within a week, City signed 4 players and Liverpool signed 2

I'm with you on this, I have no faith in the club getting this right - i especially don't get the Gyokeres / Sesko seesawing - what does either player think of our talking to the other? - it's like trying to chat two girls up at once - shouldn't we give them the impression they're 'the one'?

tbf I think Kepa is pretty much done as is Zubi, with the latter I hear it's because his club want ot wait until July for accounting reasons

That said we have indeed had a year to work on the Sesko deal so if that's who they want why isn't it done?

Man City and Chelsea, we're told, signed players early for the Club WC (and i use the letters 'WC' deliberately)

but Liverpool are also moving quickly and they aren't in it

We should just buy both Sesko and Gyokeres and have done with it

[KSE Comedy Club]

I'm with you on this, I have no faith in the club getting this right - i especially don't get the Gyokeres / Sesko seesawing - what does either player think of our talking to the other? - it's like trying to chat two girls up at once - shouldn't we give them the impression they're 'the one'?

tbf I think Kepa is pretty much done as is Zubi, with the latter I hear it's because his club want ot wait until July for accounting reasons

That said we have indeed had a year to work on the Sesko deal so if that's who they want why isn't it done?

Man City and Chelsea, we're told, signed players early for the Club WC (and i use the letters 'WC' deliberately)

but Liverpool are also moving quickly and they aren't in it

We should just buy both Sesko and Gyokeres and have done with it

Add to that, Utd have signed Cunha and supposedly working on a deal for Mbuemo.

But yes, I would much rather we put on our big boy pants and sign both of them.

[IBK]

As I've said previously, while we don't know what is really happening, the impression our club continues to give is one of dithering. I don't want us to pay over the odds for players, but the truth is that if we want to be winners, our transfer needs are greater than managing the purse strings. It's a bit disconcerting to see our rivals displaying what appear to be clearer and more efficient transfer strategies than we are. The other thing that worries me a bit is signings at Citeh and Liverpool that suggest that there is an evolution in how the game is being played. We have had the same playing approach for 2/3 years now, and are supposedly pursuing targets that have been identified for up to 2 years. We are ineffective against mid/low blocks, and have been increasingly figured out by other teams. Citeh and Liverpool appear to be focussing on advanced MF's and more traditional wingers whose role is to distribute more effectively to their strikers, yet we hear no news of Arsenal's intentions in these roles.

My concern is that we are sticking to form in being over confident that a few tweaks to our existing system will get us where we need to be - whether that involves transfer plan B's or C's or depending on renewals of existing players who haven't really progressed over the past season. But our rivals are evolving and certainly seem more dynamic than we are at present.

[HCZ_Reborn]

As I've said previously, while we don't know what is really happening, the impression our club continues to give is one of dithering. I don't want us to pay over the odds for players, but the truth is that if we want to be winners, our transfer needs are greater than managing the purse strings. It's a bit disconcerting to see our rivals displaying what appear to be clearer and more efficient transfer strategies than we are. The other thing that worries me a bit is signings at Citeh and Liverpool that suggest that there is an evolution in how the game is being played. We have had the same playing approach for 2/3 years now, and are supposedly pursuing targets that have been identified for up to 2 years. We are ineffective against mid/low blocks, and have been increasingly figured out by other teams. Citeh and Liverpool appear to be focussing on advanced MF's and more traditional wingers whose role is to distribute more effectively to their strikers, yet we hear no news of Arsenal's intentions in these roles.

My concern is that we are sticking to form in being over confident that a few tweaks to our existing system will get us where we need to be - whether that involves transfer plan B's or C's or depending on renewals of existing players who haven't really progressed over the past season. But our rivals are evolving and certainly seem more dynamic than we are at present.

Don’t, I get push back here when I talk about dealing with mid to low blocks. Ultimately for me it’s about having quick passers and dribblers in the team. And it means speaking heresy that we need a more creative player than Rice at 8.
I think that speaking of tactics doesn’t really mean a lot to me, it’s about having the tools. I don’t believe our build up play is slow because that’s how we’ve been sent out to play, it’s slow because too many players are not good enough ball to feet to play more positively, looking for safe passes sideways or backwards. They aren’t confident enough in their own ability to pick out a forward diagonal pass that would cut through the entire defence and find a player running onto it.

That requires footballing intelligence, Rice has high football intelligence in spotting danger, he can’t dribble or see a pass in the way a top creative player can. Arteta’s problem is about being obsessed with players that are as hard working without the ball, as they are good on the ball…and I’m sorry we don’t need every player to be a worker bee. If our creative players can do something brilliant going forward, we don’t need people to roll their sleeves up so much.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Don’t, I get push back here when I talk about dealing with mid to low blocks. Ultimately for me it’s about having quick passers and dribblers in the team. And it means speaking heresy that we need a more creative player than Rice at 8.
I think that speaking of tactics doesn’t really mean a lot to me, it’s about having the tools. I don’t believe our build up play is slow because that’s how we’ve been sent out to play, it’s slow because too many players are not good enough ball to feet to play more positively, looking for safe passes sideways or backwards. They aren’t confident enough in their own ability to pick out a forward diagonal pass that would cut through the entire defence and find a player running onto it.

That requires footballing intelligence, Rice has high football intelligence in spotting danger, he can’t dribble or see a pass in the way a top creative player can. Arteta’s problem is about being obsessed with players that are as hard working without the ball, as they are good on the ball…and I’m sorry we don’t need every player to be a worker bee. If our creative players can do something brilliant going forward, we don’t need people to roll their sleeves up so much.

See that's just not true.

We all watched the same players at the end of last season (23/24) do exactly the opposite of your statement. They were playing quick passing, counter attacking football.

So they are capable, but have been coached to be more defensive and possession based in their approach. That is 100% what we are seeing.

[HCZ_Reborn]

See that's just not true.

We all watched the same players at the end of last season (23/24) do exactly the opposite of your statement. They were playing quick passing, counter attacking football.

So they are capable, but have been coached to be more defensive and possession based in their approach. That is 100% what we are seeing.

You can insist on this all you want it doesn’t make it true

The same way you can insist on this quaint idea that we can play on the counter attack without being in front

The game opened up after we took the lead in games (which we largely did through set piece play) and the first half of that season was the same slog to open the scoring that you’re remarking upon now.


I’m not after being nasty but I’m tired of having to relitigate what is obvious (or at least should be) none of you are actually stupid but if you don’t think we lack creativity to open up mid-low blocks and believe somehow we can make our players who are physically strong and hardworking more technically adept to make Ozil like passes or dribble past players then I do question either your motives or your eyesight


The facts are simple, Odegaard is the only creative player we have in the middle of the park and he has regressed. Even with him on top form we had trouble opening up mid table sides. What changed was we went to Dubai and started working on set piece routines which were hard to defend against, and then once we scored from those the game opened up.


What happened this season was a) teams got better at defending those set pieces b) through injury we missed a few of the key players involved in manufacturing them (like Saka and White) and c) Our only creative central midfielder started playing it safe

Suggesting that was a tactical tweak by Arteta (I mean I’ve accused him of being a psychopath but that was clearly in the heat of the moment)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

See that's just not true.

We all watched the same players at the end of last season (23/24) do exactly the opposite of your statement. They were playing quick passing, counter attacking football.

So they are capable, but have been coached to be more defensive and possession based in their approach. That is 100% what we are seeing.

Definitely agree with the notion they are currently coached to play this slowly and concentrate on possession more than any other aspect of the game.

We have had players like Odegaard, Jorginho and Vieira who could play exactly like HCZ says with their array of passes, but all of them, including the captain, have been neutered and clearly encouraged to concentrate on not losing the ball.

IMO, our style is boring to watch, however I'm not totally convinced it's outdated yet and can't win us anything.

I do however believe a serious football club (or should I say coach) should be able to vary it, when the situation calls for it.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

On actual transfer news, reports in Spain suggest that we are actually willing to pay Nico Williams release clause and pay him wages of at least €9m a year.

Unfortunately for us and Bayern, his heart is with Barca and he is willing to wait till they fail with Liverpool's Diaz and take a considerable paycut (to what we are offering) to join them.

This seems to me like bad business, as he clearly wants to stay in Spain and his heart will always be their. An Antonio Reyes signing all over again.

Personally I'd strongly prefer we look to the premiership for players like Morgan Rogers and Mbuemo.....history should have thought us not to get seriously involved with young players who get home sick.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Definitely agree with the notion they are currently coached to play this slowly and concentrate on possession more than any other aspect of the game.

We have had players like Odegaard, Jorginho and Vieira who could play exactly like HCZ says with their array of passes, but all of them, including the captain, have been neutered and clearly encouraged to concentrate on not losing the ball.

IMO, our style is boring to watch, however I'm not totally convinced it's outdated yet and can't win us anything.

I do however believe a serious football club (or should I say coach) should be able to vary it, when the situation calls for it.

Jorginho is a deep lying defensive midfielder, he was good at playing balls that could get attacks going but again unless you have players in front of him that can play against deep/low blocks

I mean I thought I had a problem with Arteta, I think he plays it too safe by playing two defensive midfielders but it’s a whole different level when you suggest that players either with rock bottom confidence or who aren’t the most technically gifted are simply being told by Arteta to play sideways or backwards passes. There’s explanations and then there’s agendas

I don’t get why you want to refuse the simplest explanation.

Is the football awful when we play teams that play more attacking football and therefore give us more space to play. No it isn’t. Are we playing safe passes then? No we aren’t

Why is it so hard to admit that we need more creativity against obdurate teams, the stats prove it, your own eyes should prove it.

Having a quick distributor like Zubimendi at 6 will be part of the solution, having a dribbler and passing specialist at 8 will be the other half of the problem. Not this magical belief that we can make defensive players creative prodigies

The only explanation I can find for it, is struggling to accept that as good as Declan Rice can be he’s rather surplus to requirements. I won’t suggest selling him because that would be Pavlovian to the extent of showing Muslims an AI picture of Mohamed fucking a goat (I’ll just think it loudly, given the sheer amount we could generate for him).

[HCZ_Reborn]

On actual transfer news, reports in Spain suggest that we are actually willing to pay Nico Williams release clause and pay him wages of at least €9m a year.

Unfortunately for us and Bayern, his heart is with Barca and he is willing to wait till they fail with Liverpool's Diaz and take a considerable paycut (to what we are offering) to join them.

This seems to me like bad business, as he clearly wants to stay in Spain and his heart will always be their. An Antonio Reyes signing all over again.

Personally I'd strongly prefer we look to the premiership for players like Morgan Rodgers and Mbuemo.....history should have thought us not to get seriously involved with young players who get home sick.

That and he’s only a couple of rungs above Gervinho

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Jorginho is a deep lying defensive midfielder, he was good at playing balls that could get attacks going but again unless you have players in front of him that can play against deep/low blocks

I mean I thought I had a problem with Arteta, I think he plays it too safe by playing two defensive midfielders but it’s a whole different level when you suggest that players either with rock bottom confidence or who aren’t the most technically gifted are simply being told by Arteta to play sideways or backwards passes. There’s explanations and then there’s agendas

I don’t get why you want to refuse the simplest explanation.

Is the football awful when we play teams that play more attacking football and therefore give us more space to play. No it isn’t. Are we playing safe passes then? No we aren’t

Why is it so hard to admit that we need more creativity against obdurate teams, the stats prove it, your own eyes should prove it.

Having a quick distributor like Zubimendi at 6 will be part of the solution, having a dribbler and passing specialist at 8 will be the other half of the problem. Not this magical belief that we can make defensive players creative prodigies

Need to stop with the silliness

You are talking about the simplest explanation, but you're the one choosing not to see it.

Arteta hasn't reinvented any wheel, nor created his own style, he's simply trying to mimic the way CIteh played under Pep in those glorious years, the same thing the Chelsea coach, another disciple of his is doing.

Citeh have had far more talented and creative players than we could ever dream of, yet counter attacking is not one of the things they were ever known to do well in Pep's hey days.

However, I do think Pep is slightly changing and trying to reinvent himself like IBK hinted.

To me, saying our players are not technical enough to play faster counter attacking football with incisive passes is quite strange, because we've seen them do it before (in the early days of Arteta) and we've had some of the fastest young players in the league for quite a while, which is a fact.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You are talking about the simplest explanation, but you're the one choosing not to see it.

Arteta hasn't reinvented any wheel, nor created his own style, he's simply trying to mimic the way CIteh played under Pep in those glorious years, the same thing the Chelsea coach, another disciple of his is doing.

Citeh have had far more talented and creative players than we could ever dream of, yet counter attacking is not one of the things they were ever known to do well in Pep's hey days.

However, I do think Pep is slightly changing and trying to reinvent himself like IBK hinted.

To me, saying our players are not technical enough to play faster counter attacking football with incisive passes is quite strange, because we've seen them do it before (in the early days of Arteta) and we've had some of the fastest young players in the league for quite a while, which is a fact.

But I haven’t said we can’t play counter attacking football cos we don’t have the players. We beat City 5-1 by playing on the counter

But City aren’t most teams. For us to play counter attacking against most teams you have to have a lead to begin with, and sometimes that isn’t enough. A team that is 1-0 down isn’t going to go all out to get an equaliser right away.

Therefore you need players that can open up teams. And we need to stop playing two defensive midfielders against say Crystal Palace or Aston Villa at home, it’s unnecessary. We need to spend money on a striker, but we need to spend money on a top creative midfielder (you seem to agree with me that this player should be Morgan Rodgers, except I think he should play at 8 and not on the left).

[KSE Comedy Club]

You can insist on this all you want it doesn’t make it true

The same way you can insist on this quaint idea that we can play on the counter attack without being in front

The game opened up after we took the lead in games (which we largely did through set piece play) and the first half of that season was the same slog to open the scoring that you’re remarking upon now.


I’m not after being nasty but I’m tired of having to relitigate what is obvious (or at least should be) none of you are actually stupid but if you don’t think we lack creativity to open up mid-low blocks and believe somehow we can make our players who are physically strong and hardworking more technically adept to make Ozil like passes or dribble past players then I do question either your motives or your eyesight


The facts are simple, Odegaard is the only creative player we have in the middle of the park and he has regressed. Even with him on top form we had trouble opening up mid table sides. What changed was we went to Dubai and started working on set piece routines which were hard to defend against, and then once we scored from those the game opened up.


What happened this season was a) teams got better at defending those set pieces b) through injury we missed a few of the key players involved in manufacturing them (like Saka and White) and c) Our only creative central midfielder started playing it safe

Suggesting that was a tactical tweak by Arteta (I mean I’ve accused him of being a psychopath but that was clearly in the heat of the moment)

Look, if you pass the ball from the keeper to a defender and then across to the next defender, and back again, then forwards, then sideways, then backwards, etc - and you do this 40 times in the space of 2-3 minutes all whilst only progressing the ball 2 meters from the 18 yard box then any team in the world can get their whole squad back in defense to sit and wait for the attack to come in.

It's not rocket science.

We are more often than not the architects of our own downfall in that regard.

I will absolutely insist on it as being true, as I sat there watching it every week for the last 16 games of that season.
We were quicker moving the ball and more decisive in our passing and shooting.

This season just gone we have changed our style to the shit we had to endure, and whilst there is no doubt teams have been far more cautious against us, our own slow sideways passing, build up play is 50% to blame.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Definitely agree with the notion they are currently coached to play this slowly and concentrate on possession more than any other aspect of the game.

We have had players like Odegaard, Jorginho and Vieira who could play exactly like HCZ says with their array of passes, but all of them, including the captain, have been neutered and clearly encouraged to concentrate on not losing the ball.

IMO, our style is boring to watch, however I'm not totally convinced it's outdated yet and can't win us anything.

I do however believe a serious football club (or should I say coach) should be able to vary it, when the situation calls for it.

Absolutely spot on.

[KSE Comedy Club]

On actual transfer news, reports in Spain suggest that we are actually willing to pay Nico Williams release clause and pay him wages of at least €9m a year.

Unfortunately for us and Bayern, his heart is with Barca and he is willing to wait till they fail with Liverpool's Diaz and take a considerable paycut (to what we are offering) to join them.

This seems to me like bad business, as he clearly wants to stay in Spain and his heart will always be their. An Antonio Reyes signing all over again.

Personally I'd strongly prefer we look to the premiership for players like Morgan Rogers and Mbuemo.....history should have thought us not to get seriously involved with young players who get home sick.

True, I think it's been obvious for a while that he wants to go to Barca so I don't knwo why we are still looking at him (if we actually are of course)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Look, if you pass the ball from the keeper to a defender and then across to the next defender, and back again, then forwards, then sideways, then backwards, etc - and you do this 40 times in the space of 2-3 minutes all whilst only progressing the ball 2 meters from the 18 yard box then any team in the world can get their whole squad back in defense to sit and wait for the attack to come in.

It's not rocket science.

We are more often than not the architects of our own downfall in that regard.

I will absolutely insist on it as being true, as I sat there watching it every week for the last 16 games of that season.
We were quicker moving the ball and more decisive in our passing and shooting.

This season just gone we have changed our style to the shit we had to endure, and whilst there is no doubt teams have been far more cautious against us, our own slow sideways passing, build up play is 50% to blame.

No it’s not Rocket Science, neither is it a coherent tactic. In that it’s not a tactic at all

It’s players playing it safe because they don’t have the confidence to play it forward

We are ourselves susceptible to the counter attack, especially given we hold a high defensive line so a lot of it comes down to fear of being dispossessed. And you’re right then teams have the time to get back into position by the time we do get the ball forward but in many cases they aren’t overcommitting to begin with

The solution is to have quick dribblers who are comfortable on the ball under pressure to the extent that they are happy to carry the ball forward, it means we aren’t having to overcommit and leave ourselves vulnerable to the counter and it means we can make space against obdurate sides.

Sitting back and hoping sides overcommit in attack so that we can launch a counter attack is like sitting in all day waiting for a package to be delivered, often futile

[Mac76]

Look, if you pass the ball from the keeper to a defender and then across to the next defender, and back again, then forwards, then sideways, then backwards, etc - and you do this 40 times in the space of 2-3 minutes all whilst only progressing the ball 2 meters from the 18 yard box then any team in the world can get their whole squad back in defense to sit and wait for the attack to come in.

It's not rocket science.

We are more often than not the architects of our own downfall in that regard.

I will absolutely insist on it as being true, as I sat there watching it every week for the last 16 games of that season.
We were quicker moving the ball and more decisive in our passing and shooting.

This season just gone we have changed our style to the shit we had to endure, and whilst there is no doubt teams have been far more cautious against us, our own slow sideways passing, build up play is 50% to blame.

Yup, I too was one of the mugs who paid to go along and watch tedious football played by a team whose manager wanted them to be the kings of control, only he'd paid no attention to how we maximise that control and so we end up with the Horseshoe of Death

The best games - Citeh and Real - were against teams who didn't deploy the low block, but everyone knows that's how to defeat us

The irony is that in brief moments we've seen that most if not all of our players can transition quickly, but 99% of the time our system and style prevents it

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

In more transfer news, Partey is quite likely leaving as we are unable to agree personal terms.

It seems the sticking point is he wants us to increase his wages and we obviously don't want to. Obviously the Saudis and the other European clubs sniffing around have all assured him they'll meet his wage demands.

As much as I'm his no 1 fan, a new contract of £200k week for 32 year old who's not a creative player seems fair enough to me.

The thing is, we should have never allowed his contract to run down in the first place as we were never going to be able to match what others would to lure him over. This is another obvious own goal on our part.....what a great transfer window this is turning out to be!

[Marc Overmars]

Huge gamble letting Partey go but then I also believe him staying injury free last season was a bit of good fortune. I could easily see a scenario where we give him a new deal and he follows that up with unreliability again.

A lot of pressure on Zubimendi to be an instant hit.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Huge gamble letting Partey go but then I also believe him staying injury free last season was a bit of good fortune. I could easily see a scenario where we give him a new deal and he follows that up with unreliability again.

A lot of pressure on Zubimendi to be an instant hit.

Pressure that isn't needed and will probably be "the excuse" for whatever may happen this season.....oh I'm assuming they do get in their striker BTW.

Honestly it was pretty clear earlier this year that we weren't winning the league, so why we seem so terribly prepared for this summer is turning into something we might need a public inquiry on, or should I say inquest?

[HCZ_Reborn]

In more transfer news, Partey is quite likely leaving as we are unable to agree personal terms.

It seems the sticking point is he wants us to increase his wages and we obviously don't want to. Obviously the Saudis and the other European clubs sniffing around have all assured him they'll meet his wage demands.

As much as I'm his no 1 fan, a new contract of £200k week for 32 year old who's not a creative player seems fair enough to me.

The thing is, we should have never allowed his contract to run down in the first place as we were never going to be able to match what others would to lure him over. This is another obvious own goal on our part.....what a great transfer window this is turning out to be!

A year ago can you honestly say you would have extended his contract given his injury record ?

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13381505/benjamin-sesko-transfer-news-rb-leizpig-want-a-deal-worth-between-68-4m-and-85-5m-for-arsenal-target

If Leipzig want 85.5 million for him, we probably should look elsewhere. Ekitike, Watkins (would be bottom
of the barrel), Jonathan David and Martinez.

Especially if Sesko isn’t going to force the issue

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

A year ago can you honestly say you would have extended his contract given his injury record ?

Yes, because the team without him has never impressed me nor looked solid enough.

What they should have done last summer was offer a contract of 2 years (that's one additional year). This would have allowed Rice and Merino an additional year to bond, plus given Zubumendi a year to play with him, since it was always clear he wouldn't move last summer.

Also if we'd added an extra 20-50k it would have meant the deal cost no more than an additional £4m (in total), which would have also given us room to push for a sale within the additional year and turn a profit.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yes, because the team without him has never impressed me nor looked solid enough.

What they should have done last summer was offer a contract of 2 years (that's one additional year). This would have allowed Rice and Merino an additional year to bond, plus given Zubumendi a year to play with him, since it was always clear he wouldn't move last summer.

Also if we'd added an extra 20-50k it would have meant the deal cost no more than an additional £10m (in total), which would have also given us room to push for a sale within the additional year and recover some if not all of that £10m.

He was only in the team in the back end of the 2023-2024 season and he stunk the place out. So actually it could be argued that we got on better without him. I like him a lot as a player but to suggest he was worthwhile of a contract extension back in the summer of 2024 is to rewrite history.

It’s also why I don’t really take a lot of your criticisms of the club seriously, because it starts as I say from the unshifting position “the club is badly run” and then tries to shoe horn everything that happens into that model

It makes perfect sense for me to have waited to see how often he played (and how he performed) in 2024-2025 before seeking to offer him a new contract. And I’m glad even you seem to agree that the club shouldn’t be held to ransom over his contract. I’d rather have him at the club than Merino but frankly I’d still get rid of Merino as well (because with Zubimendi and Rice the no6 position is covered) and then we can look at buying two creative midfielders

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

He was only in the team in the back end of the 2023-2024 season and he stunk the place out. So actually it could be argued that we got on better without him. I like him a lot as a player but to suggest he was worthwhile of a contract extension back in the summer of 2024 is to rewrite history.

It’s also why I don’t really take a lot of your criticisms of the club seriously, because it starts as I say from the unshifting position “the club is badly run” and then tries to shoe horn everything that happens into that model

It makes perfect sense for me to have waited to see how often he played (and how he performed) in 2024-2025 before seeking to offer him a new contract. And I’m glad even you seem to agree that the club shouldn’t be held to ransom over his contract. I’d rather have him at the club than Merino but frankly I’d still get rid of Merino as well (because with Zubimendi and Rice the no6 position is covered) and then we can look at buying two creative midfielders

Again, in a way I'd say the same for you. I mean your arguments defending the club always come from the extremely naive position "the club is run properly" (despite evidence to the contrary), as it seems you consider running what is now largely an entertainment behmoth akin to running the local kebab shop, where you live to balance the books every year and more importantly pray no one else opens one next to you!

As for Partey, he did have that funny spell after coming back from injury last season, though before he got injured he was churning out his usual imperious displays IIRC.

Also I readily admit I'm probably not one of the best people to have a Partey argument with (just like you are terrible to have a Martinelli discussion with) as I consider him the most important recruit under the Arteta era, and have always believed when he is on form, there has been no player better in the league capable of doing what he does so seemlessly in the last 5 years. Still give him so much props for our first title challenge, which really is the challenge I believe we should have won.

Anyway lets sees how much "perfect sense" your infatuation with caution makes, as I'm pretty certain we are losing him for nothing seeing as African players don't do pay cuts (or freezes).

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yup, I too was one of the mugs who paid to go along and watch tedious football played by a team whose manager wanted them to be the kings of control, only he'd paid no attention to how we maximise that control and so we end up with the Horseshoe of Death

The best games - Citeh and Real - were against teams who didn't deploy the low block, but everyone knows that's how to defeat us

The irony is that in brief moments we've seen that most if not all of our players can transition quickly, but 99% of the time our system and style prevents it

Exactly what I was saying.

[KSE Comedy Club]

What I would say is that if Partey is going to leave, then the club should stop negotiating with him now and focus on picking up a cheap replacement.

Zubi is going to be the main man in that position by all accounts, so we need a back up to fill in.

[KSE Comedy Club]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13381505/benjamin-sesko-transfer-news-rb-leizpig-want-a-deal-worth-between-68-4m-and-85-5m-for-arsenal-target

If Leipzig want 85.5 million for him, we probably should look elsewhere. Ekitike, Watkins (would be bottom
of the barrel), Jonathan David and Martinez.

Especially if Sesko isn’t going to force the issue

That's what I have been saying all along.

He's not worth that kind of money as he is as much a gamble as Gyokores for example.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Exactly what I was saying.

Our system and style doesn’t prevent it. The system and style of most other teams prevents it.

You have to rely on other teams committing players forward, which most premier league teams won’t do unless they have to go for broke (usually in a situation that they are already behind to begin with). My question I pose is how do we create the state of affairs to make these teams go behind, and I give the answer that we need more creativity and you respond like I’ve called your mother a vapid whore.

[HCZ_Reborn]

That's what I have been saying all along.

He's not worth that kind of money as he is as much a gamble as Gyokores for example.

No what you’ve been saying all along is we should be signing Gyokeres because of all the goals he’s scored in a spastic league

Your argument the other week was that Leipzig were demanding 80 million euros for him (which as I pointed out to you was the same as the 67 million pounds often cited). I’m saying if it rises to 85 million we should look elsewhere

[KSE Comedy Club]

No what you’ve been saying all along is we should be signing Gyokeres because of all the goals he’s scored in a spastic league

Your argument the other week was that Leipzig were demanding 80 million euros for him (which as I pointed out to you was the same as the 67 million pounds often cited). I’m saying if it rises to 85 million we should look elsewhere

I prefer Gyokores as he has proven the ability to score more goals than Sekso, therefore he is also a gamble but less so than a player that has only managed a qtr of the goals.

And yes - 80m Euros is too much for him when he has been bang average.

So we agree that any more than that is way too much - no?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Again, in a way I'd say the same for you. I mean your arguments defending the club always come from the extremely naive position "the club is run properly" (despite evidence to the contrary), as it seems you consider running what is now largely an entertainment behmoth akin to running the local kebab shop, where you live to balance the books every year and more importantly pray no one else opens one next to you!

As for Partey, he did have that funny spell after coming back from injury last season, though before he got injured he was churning out his usual imperious displays IIRC.

Also I readily admit I'm probably not one of the best people to have a Partey argument with (just like you are terrible to have a Martinelli discussion with) as I consider him the most important recruit under the Arteta era, and have always believed when he is on form, there has been no player better in the league capable of doing what he does so seemlessly in the last 5 years. Still give him so much props for our first title challenge, which really is the challenge I believe we should have won.

Anyway lets sees how much "perfect sense" your infatuation with caution makes, as I'm pretty certain we are losing him for nothing seeing as African players don't do pay cuts (or freezes).


You could of course make that argument but it’s the equivalent of “I know you are but what am I”

That and it would ignore the amount of times I’ve castigated the club from failure to prioritise a striker last summer (and people here took issue with me for being impatient when I said why are we signing Calafiori when we need a striker), referring to Josh Kroenke as “Stan’s idiot son” and criticised the club for allowing Arteta to do a power grab

It’s just Im able to employ enough nuance that I don’t think every single thing the club does is bad. Because it’s a ridiculous and maximalist position and you can twist it in so many ways so that you’re never wrong. I’m sorry to say had we given Partey a new contract and he’d spent half the season injured like the 23/24 season the same people would be blaming the club for giving him a new contract. And I can I'm afraid smell that heads I win, tails you lose mentality a mile off.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Our system and style doesn’t prevent it. The system and style of most other teams prevents it.

You have to rely on other teams committing players forward, which most premier league teams won’t do unless they have to go for broke (usually in a situation that they are already behind to begin with). My question I pose is how do we create the state of affairs to make these teams go behind, and I give the answer that we need more creativity and you respond like I’ve called your mother a vapid whore.

It's 50/50 I'm afraid. Our style absolutely contributes to our lack of attack.
Also you are wrong about my response - I said that I agreed that we could add creativity to take the burden off Odegaard, but I disagreed that it was as important as sorting out the attack.

You still believe that these players can't make runs or defence splitting passes, when we have seen the very same players do it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I prefer Gyokores as he has proven the ability to score more goals than Sekso, therefore he is a gamble but less so than a player that has only managed a qtr of the goals.

Yes - and 80m Euros is too much for him when he has been bang average.

So we agree that any more than that is way too much - no?

No I’d pay up to 75 million for him, just not 85 million so we don’t agree

Just as we don’t agree that scoring however many goals Gyokeres has in a spastic league is any more impressive than the 27 in 64 that Sesko has in the Bundesliga

[IBK]

More thoughts on our transfer situation. Believe me, I get that its early and that there may be a lot going on behind the scenes and that Arsenal may be on board with this Sesko/Gyokores saga so as not to seem too desperate for either. But the problem is that we have been badly burned too many times before, and seem willing to take risks - both in holding out and with playing games with selling clubs (Suarez springs to mind) that end up blowing up in our faces.

I'm a bit sick of being constantly linked to players that we may have no hope in hell of signing. I know that this can be to a large extent outside the club's control but rumours thrive in a vacuum. Based on our transfer business over the past few years - when even our best signings have been protracted affairs I don't think its unfair to say that we are neither decisive nor efficient when we do business, and the impression that despite changing sporting directors this trend is not changing is disappointing - more so when our needs are so obvious, and we are supposed to have been courting certain players for so long; failed to address our forward position both last Summer and in January to keep our powder dry for these, and arguably f*cked our best chance to win the league last season as a result.

Like I said yesterday, our competitors are showing far more decisiveness and effectiveness than we are so far. This suggests that they have very clear ideas of how they are going to improve. Our apparent position demonstrates the opposite. At best that strengthening our squad depends upon opportunistic signings or meeting our own valuations rather than simply signing the best players identified for a position. At worst that we have no clear idea which players will work best for us.

The other aspect to consider is reputation. We are selling targets the promise of jam tomorrow, because we have not won anything big for so long. Despite our CL progress last season, we were distant also rans in the league, and in both comps we need to compete with clubs with proven track records of major silverware. My honest opinion is that we might already seem a less attractive target for players than we were at this stage last season - as much as anything because our lack of transfer activity blew up in our faces. Our current lack of concrete progress in the striker department, combined with relative tumbleweed re a winger - and certainly in attacking CM positions - does not exactly enhance the impression of a club on the cusp of greatness - or even one with a clear and considered pathway for success - for our top targets. Further, being seen to be flirting with a number of different options must convey a message to, say, a Sesko, that the club is not 100% committed to them.

It's hard to escape the impression that we are a bit 'small time' for the 7th or 8th biggest club in the world (depending on which rankings you look at), or that our owners are not committed to winning the big comps. We are looking hesitant rather than canny in the transfer market ATM.

[KSE Comedy Club]

You could of course make that argument but it’s the equivalent of “I know you are but what am I”

That and it would ignore the amount of times I’ve castigated the club from failure to prioritise a striker last summer (and people here took issue with me for being impatient when I said why are we signing Calafiori when we need a striker), referring to Josh Kroenke as “Stan’s idiot son” and criticised the club for allowing Arteta to do a power grab

It’s just Im able to employ enough nuance that I don’t think every single thing the club does is bad. Because it’s a ridiculous and maximalist position and you can twist it in so many ways so that you’re never wrong. I’m sorry to say had we given Partey a new contract and he’d spent half the season injured like the 23/24 season the same people would be blaming the club for giving him a new contract. And I can I'm afraid smell that heads I win, tails you lose mentality a mile off.

Christ! was that not the most annoying thing in last summers window?! - then they roll out fucking Sterling!

[IBK]

What I would say is that if Partey is going to leave, then the club should stop negotiating with him now and focus on picking up a cheap replacement.

Zubi is going to be the main man in that position by all accounts, so we need a back up to fill in.

Yes, we do need a replacement. We suffered last seaon because of a lack of squad depth and Jorginho has left also. For all his exploits up front Merino is not IMO capable of filling in effectively...

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's 50/50 I'm afraid. Our style absolutely contributes to our lack of attack.
Also you are wrong about my response - I said that I agreed that we could add creativity to take the burden off Odegaard, but I disagreed that it was as important as sorting out the attack.

You still believe that these players can't make runs or defence splitting passes, when we have seen the very same players do it.


The fact is the way we played in 24/25 from 23/24 isn’t remotely different. What’s difference as I’ve said countless times is that apart from Odegaard’s form is we haven’t been able to exploit set pieces like we did…that way we could score goals on the counter because teams who were behind created more space

I don’t doubt that the players we have can create, what I’m saying consistently is that we aren’t creating enough chances consistently. Your idea is that because we’ve decided to play a different way last season than the previous two and zero evidence supports this.


What I’m saying is that bereft of the one trick pony set piece play we need more creative players, dribblers who make space as well as making passes in the hope that there is space for a player to run into.

And that given that our XG isn’t massively in excess of our goals scored, it’s not unreasonable to suggest that this is just as important as a striker

[KSE Comedy Club]

No I’d pay up to 75 million for him, just not 85 million so we don’t agree

Just as we don’t agree that scoring however many goals Gyokeres has in a spastic league is any more impressive than the 27 in 64 that Sesko has in the Bundesliga

So, just for basic math sake - 75 is less than 80, and I said "80 is too much for him" and you would pay up to 75 - yet you think we don't agree.
Hmmm, interesting.

Gyokores is 97 in 102, 'spastic league' (I don't agree with that personally) or not, it's still a higher figure than Sekso's (which is actually 39 in 87 all comps)


Sesko profile
Stats: Sesko bagged 13 goals and five assists in 33 Bundesliga appearances last season and was also on target in the Champions League four times. He has scored 39 goals in 87 appearances for the German side since signing for them from RB Salzburg in 2023.
2 days ago

[KSE Comedy Club]

Just a note to anyone that thinks our transfer business is going at an OK pace, with nothing to worry about:

There are 9 weeks left until the start of next season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

So, just for basic math sake - 75 is less than 80, and I said "80 is too much for him" and you would pay up to 75 - yet you think we don't agree.
Hmmm, interesting.

Gyokores is 97 in 102, 'spastic league' (I don't agree with that personally) or not, it's still a higher figure than Sekso's (which is actually 39 in 87 all comps)

It’s in your interest not to agree with that. And it’s all relative but if you’re saying that scoring loads of goals mostly in transition against poor defences (don’t believe me, look at the goals he scores and honestly tell me he’d get the space and time to score those in the premier league) is more impressive than a 22 year scoring a more modest amount in a superior league than I respectfully disagree

Gyokeres might do well in your fantasy that we could start playing counter attacking football against mid table sides who are going to magically overcommit and leave themselves wide open at 0-0. But if we assume that that’s not going to happen and we rely on someone who can win headers, score in crowded penalty areas etc…he’s probably not our guy


Your argument was you would paid no more than 80milion euros for him (67 million). My argument is that I wouldn’t pay 85 million pound or 100 million euros (and suggested a figure between).

[KSE Comedy Club]

It’s in your interest not to agree with that. And it’s all relative but if you’re saying that scoring loads of goals mostly in transition against poor defences (don’t believe me, look at the goals he scores and honestly tell me he’d get the space and time to score those in the premier league) is more impressive than a 22 year scoring a more modest amount in a superior league than I respectfully disagree

Gyokeres might do well in your fantasy that we could start playing counter attacking football against mid table sides who are going to magically overcommit and leave themselves wide open at 0-0. But if we assume that that’s not going to happen and we rely on someone who can win headers, score in crowded penalty areas etc…he’s probably not our guy


Your argument was you would paid no more than 80milion euros for him (67 million). My argument is that I wouldn’t pay 85 million pound or 100 million euros (and suggested a figure between).

Well not really, I don't think Sesko is the guy as he is just going to be Havertz part 2.

I would rather we bought a striker with different attributes and play style to give us a plan B.
For the games where we struggle to score by doing our usual routine, where we would have Sesko trying to score from headers, etc, which would be more of the same.

However, if Sesko is who we end up with then that is who I will get behind - until he proves me right and still doesn't manage more than 15 goals a season.

We are in desperate need of a proper no. 9 and Sesko is not that.

You wouldn't pay £85m for him and neither would I - so that we are agreed on.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well not really, I don't think Sesko is the guy as he is just going to be Havertz part 2.

I would rather we bought a striker with different attributes and play style to give us a plan B.
For the games where we struggle to score by doing our usual routine, where we would have Sesko trying to score from headers, etc, which would be more of the same.

However, if Sesko is who we end up with then that is who I will get behind - until he proves me right and still doesn't manage more than 15 goals a season.

We are in desperate need of a proper no. 9 and Sesko is not that.

This is where I disagree I think he’s exactly that

Plus he’s better aerially than Gyokeres

[Niall_Quinn]

Just a note to anyone that thinks our transfer business is going at an OK pace, with nothing to worry about:

There are 9 weeks left until the start of next season.

It's doable! A mere 9 weeks! We've managed to keep the chequebook secure for a lot longer than that in the past. We can do it! Just 9 more weeks...

Absolutely knew we'd be fucking around at this stage wondering what happened to the "done deals".

[KSE Comedy Club]

More thoughts on our transfer situation. Believe me, I get that its early and that there may be a lot going on behind the scenes and that Arsenal may be on board with this Sesko/Gyokores saga so as not to seem too desperate for either. But the problem is that we have been badly burned too many times before, and seem willing to take risks - both in holding out and with playing games with selling clubs (Suarez springs to mind) that end up blowing up in our faces.

I'm a bit sick of being constantly linked to players that we may have no hope in hell of signing. I know that this can be to a large extent outside the club's control but rumours thrive in a vacuum. Based on our transfer business over the past few years - when even our best signings have been protracted affairs I don't think its unfair to say that we are neither decisive nor efficient when we do business, and the impression that despite changing sporting directors this trend is not changing is disappointing - more so when our needs are so obvious, and we are supposed to have been courting certain players for so long; failed to address our forward position both last Summer and in January to keep our powder dry for these, and arguably f*cked our best chance to win the league last season as a result.

Like I said yesterday, our competitors are showing far more decisiveness and effectiveness than we are so far. This suggests that they have very clear ideas of how they are going to improve. Our apparent position demonstrates the opposite. At best that strengthening our squad depends upon opportunistic signings or meeting our own valuations rather than simply signing the best players identified for a position. At worst that we have no clear idea which players will work best for us.

The other aspect to consider is reputation. We are selling targets the promise of jam tomorrow, because we have not won anything big for so long. Despite our CL progress last season, we were distant also rans in the league, and in both comps we need to compete with clubs with proven track records of major silverware. My honest opinion is that we might already seem a less attractive target for players than we were at this stage last season - as much as anything because our lack of transfer activity blew up in our faces. Our current lack of concrete progress in the striker department, combined with relative tumbleweed re a winger - and certainly in attacking CM positions - does not exactly enhance the impression of a club on the cusp of greatness - or even one with a clear and considered pathway for success - for our top targets. Further, being seen to be flirting with a number of different options must convey a message to, say, a Sesko, that the club is not 100% committed to them.

It's hard to escape the impression that we are a bit 'small time' for the 7th or 8th biggest club in the world (depending on which rankings you look at), or that our owners are not committed to winning the big comps. We are looking hesitant rather than canny in the transfer market ATM.

I would agree with all of that.

There does not seem to be a decisive strategy defined for us to be a succesful club.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yes, we do need a replacement. We suffered last seaon because of a lack of squad depth and Jorginho has left also. For all his exploits up front Merino is not IMO capable of filling in effectively...

No Merino is definitely not it. I thought he was awful in midfield and being put up front saved his season in my eyes.

[KSE Comedy Club]

This is where I disagree I think he’s exactly that

Plus he’s better aerially than Gyokeres

Exactly what - a plan B?

I think you are confusing that with another 'like for like' player that Arteta can swap for Havertz when 70 mins comes around.

I would prefer a striker that can shoot on target, not straight at the keeper almost every shot or put it wide or over the crossbar.
Horses for courses :shrug:

[KSE Comedy Club]

It's doable! A mere 9 weeks! We've managed to keep the chequebook secure for a lot longer than that in the past. We can do it! Just 9 more weeks...

Absolutely knew we'd be fucking around at this stage wondering what happened to the "done deals".

I know, it's almost as predictable as our gameplan, tactics and play style last season!

I genuinely believed that we didn't buy anyone in January because we had our targets already lined up for the summer window - but once again it seems that just isn't the case.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

More thoughts on our transfer situation. Believe me, I get that its early and that there may be a lot going on behind the scenes and that Arsenal may be on board with this Sesko/Gyokores saga so as not to seem too desperate for either. But the problem is that we have been badly burned too many times before, and seem willing to take risks - both in holding out and with playing games with selling clubs (Suarez springs to mind) that end up blowing up in our faces.

I'm a bit sick of being constantly linked to players that we may have no hope in hell of signing. I know that this can be to a large extent outside the club's control but rumours thrive in a vacuum. Based on our transfer business over the past few years - when even our best signings have been protracted affairs I don't think its unfair to say that we are neither decisive nor efficient when we do business, and the impression that despite changing sporting directors this trend is not changing is disappointing - more so when our needs are so obvious, and we are supposed to have been courting certain players for so long; failed to address our forward position both last Summer and in January to keep our powder dry for these, and arguably f*cked our best chance to win the league last season as a result.

Like I said yesterday, our competitors are showing far more decisiveness and effectiveness than we are so far. This suggests that they have very clear ideas of how they are going to improve. Our apparent position demonstrates the opposite. At best that strengthening our squad depends upon opportunistic signings or meeting our own valuations rather than simply signing the best players identified for a position. At worst that we have no clear idea which players will work best for us.

The other aspect to consider is reputation. We are selling targets the promise of jam tomorrow, because we have not won anything big for so long. Despite our CL progress last season, we were distant also rans in the league, and in both comps we need to compete with clubs with proven track records of major silverware. My honest opinion is that we might already seem a less attractive target for players than we were at this stage last season - as much as anything because our lack of transfer activity blew up in our faces. Our current lack of concrete progress in the striker department, combined with relative tumbleweed re a winger - and certainly in attacking CM positions - does not exactly enhance the impression of a club on the cusp of greatness - or even one with a clear and considered pathway for success - for our top targets. Further, being seen to be flirting with a number of different options must convey a message to, say, a Sesko, that the club is not 100% committed to them.

It's hard to escape the impression that we are a bit 'small time' for the 7th or 8th biggest club in the world (depending on which rankings you look at), or that our owners are not committed to winning the big comps. We are looking hesitant rather than canny in the transfer market ATM.

:gp: in general and I'd like to point out your last paragraph helps me with a different ongoing argument I am having with a "trust the process" HCZ about how good our suits have been in managing our affairs.

Initially when the Forbes list came out in 2007, we were the 3rd biggest club in the world financially based on value and only behind Man U and Madrid (we were practically the same size as Madrid though).

At that time Man U was only about one and a half times bigger than us. All the other clubs in England were miles behind us. Liverpool and Chelsea were roughly 2 times smaller than us, while Spurs and Citeh were 4 times smaller than us.

Almost 20 years later, we are number 8 in the world and we've actually improved quite a lot in the last 3 years after dropping to as low as no 11 in the world and no 6 in England. However Man U and Real Madrid have consistently remained in the top places of every list in the past 20 years never going below no 3 and are currently no 2 and 1 respectively.

In England specifically, Man U is currently twice the size of us, Liverpool & Citeh are one and a half times bigger than us, while Chelsea and Spurs are pretty much at par with us (they were ahead of us a year ago).

Clearly in the last 20 years we've had the lowest growth among our rivals financially (and probably in every other aspect despite consistently always charging the highest on average for season tickets), and it's obviously not only about titles as Man U and Tottenham wouldn't be doing so well despite their erratic form.

So when some of us who are familiar with this world lambast our suits for being shortsighted and acting like mini shopkeepers, its clearly something evidenced by something as unbiased as our value to the unapologetic outside world....which permeates even into things like the transfer market.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

In more transfer news, Barca has signed Joan Garcia, who we've been chasing for like a year IIRC. To think we took Neto on loan to ensure this move would go through this summer.

It's becoming a bit of a pattern with all these first choice Spanish targets that Arteta seems to identify....we clearly don't have the pull that he imagines we do.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-transfer-realmadrid-arteta-garcia-33118411?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

[KSE Comedy Club]

In more transfer news, Barca has signed Joan Garcia, who we've been chasing for like a year IIRC. To think we took Neto on loan to ensure this move would go through this summer.

It's becoming a bit of a pattern with all these first choice Spanish targets that Arteta seems to identify....we clearly don't have the pull that he imagines we do.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-transfer-realmadrid-arteta-garcia-33118411?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

Trust the process

That's the problem with someone who loves smelling their own farts - people who they speak to, can smell the bullshit instead of the perfume.

[Mac76]

:gp: in general and I'd like to point out your last paragraph helps me with a different ongoing argument I am having with a "trust the process" HCZ about how good our suits have been in managing our affairs.

Initially when the Forbes list came out in 2007, we were the 3rd biggest club in the world financially based on value and only behind Man U and Madrid (we were practically the same size as Madrid though).

At that time Man U was only about one and a half times bigger than us. All the other clubs in England were miles behind us. Liverpool and Chelsea were roughly 2 times smaller than us, while Spurs and Citeh were 4 times smaller than us.

Almost 20 years later, we are number 8 in the world and we've actually improved quite a lot in the last 3 years after dropping to as low as no 11 in the world and no 6 in England. However Man U and Real Madrid have consistently remained in the top places of every list in the past 20 years never going below no 3 and are currently no 2 and 1 respectively.

In England specifically, Man U is currently twice the size of us, Liverpool & Citeh are one and a half times bigger than us, while Chelsea and Spurs are pretty much at par with us (they were ahead of us a year ago).

Clearly in the last 20 years we've had the lowest growth among our rivals financially (and probably in every other aspect despite consistently always charging the highest on average for season tickets), and it's obviously not only about titles as Man U and Tottenham wouldn't be doing so well despite their erratic form.

So when some of us who are familiar with this world lambast our suits for being shortsighted and acting like mini shopkeepers, its clearly something evidenced by something as unbiased as our value to the unapologetic outside world....which permeates even into things like the transfer market.

I agree it's a good point

on your penultimate para, tbf Man Ure are living off their reputation and the fact those that only support them because they used to win all the time are now locked into hoping those times come back

and spuds have a media circus which fawns over them and insists including them in a 'top six' even though (before recently obvs) they'd not won anything in a very long time and quite often stunk the place out

[HCZ_Reborn]

Exactly what - a plan B?

I think you are confusing that with another 'like for like' player that Arteta can swap for Havertz when 70 mins comes around.

I would prefer a striker that can shoot on target, not straight at the keeper almost every shot or put it wide or over the crossbar.
Horses for courses :shrug:

So your evidence of Sesko being like Havertz is because I said he’s better aerially than Gyokeres (who I think will be crowded before he can even demonstrate whether he can shoot on target)

[Mac76]

No Merino is definitely not it. I thought he was awful in midfield and being put up front saved his season in my eyes.

yes agreed, he's a terrible buy considering we didn't need him really and instead needed an attacker - Arteta just got lucky, as he did with Havertz himself tbh as he bought him as a MF

[HCZ_Reborn]

:gp: in general and I'd like to point out your last paragraph helps me with a different ongoing argument I am having with a "trust the process" HCZ about how good our suits have been in managing our affairs.

Initially when the Forbes list came out in 2007, we were the 3rd biggest club in the world financially based on value and only behind Man U and Madrid (we were practically the same size as Madrid though).

At that time Man U was only about one and a half times bigger than us. All the other clubs in England were miles behind us. Liverpool and Chelsea were roughly 2 times smaller than us, while Spurs and Citeh were 4 times smaller than us.

Almost 20 years later, we are number 8 in the world and we've actually improved quite a lot in the last 3 years after dropping to as low as no 11 in the world and no 6 in England. However Man U and Real Madrid have consistently remained in the top places of every list in the past 20 years never going below no 3 and are currently no 2 and 1 respectively.

In England specifically, Man U is currently twice the size of us, Liverpool & Citeh are one and a half times bigger than us, while Chelsea and Spurs are pretty much at par with us (they were ahead of us a year ago).

Clearly in the last 20 years we've had the lowest growth among our rivals financially (and probably in every other aspect despite consistently always charging the highest on average for season tickets), and it's obviously not only about titles as Man U and Tottenham wouldn't be doing so well despite their erratic form.

So when some of us who are familiar with this world lambast our suits for being shortsighted and acting like mini shopkeepers, its clearly something evidenced by something as unbiased as our value to the unapologetic outside world....which permeates even into things like the transfer market.

Mate you tried to cite Peter Ridsdale at Leeds as an example of showing ambition. You calling me a “trust the process” guy is just projection because I’ve chided you for your maximalist approach

[KSE Comedy Club]

So your evidence of Sesko being like Havertz is because I said he’s better aerially than Gyokeres (who I think will be crowded before he can even demonstrate whether he can shoot on target)

No, it's that they are similar players. I am not saying they are identical but they do share some attributes.

[IBK]

No Merino is definitely not it. I thought he was awful in midfield and being put up front saved his season in my eyes.

Thinking about this some more, I think that letting Partey go is a mistake. We have enough disruption/rebuilding to do as it is without now having to find another player in Partey's position, and finding someone at his level will cost £50/£60M plus - that will have a knock on effect on other transfers. We are supposed to be aiming to win things next season. A new player carries risk, and will need bedding in. Partey's traditional injury record is not good, but last season was exceptional. As for Partey leaving and the club not signing anyone to replace him, we have surely learned enough not to be taking risks with little cover in his position - and putting a massive burden on the incoming Zubimendi. And I'm not keen on the idea of shifting MLS into MF and leaving us with just Cala if he does...

Does keeping Partey on his wages for a year's extension really harm us, in the circumstances.

Problem is that I think we will let him go - and won't deal with the above problems well enough.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Mate you tried to cite Peter Ridsdale at Leeds as an example of showing ambition. You calling me a “trust the process” guy is just projection because I’ve chided you for your maximalist approach

I've known for a while that discussions with you is all about winning but surely even you can do better than making up things I never said... on second thought, maybe not :)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Thinking about this some more, I think that letting Partey go is a mistake. We have enough disruption/rebuilding to do as it is without now having to find another player in Partey's position, and finding someone at his level will cost £50/£60M plus - that will have a knock on effect on other transfers. We are supposed to be aiming to win things next season. A new player carries risk, and will need bedding in. Partey's traditional injury record is not good, but last season was exceptional. As for Partey leaving and the club not signing anyone to replace him, we have surely learned enough not to be taking risks with little cover in his position - and putting a massive burden on the incoming Zubimendi. And I'm not keen on the idea of shifting MLS into MF and leaving us with just Cala if he does...

Does keeping Partey on his wages for a year's extension really harm us, in the circumstances.

Problem is that I think we will let him go - and won't deal with the above problems well enough.

:gp: Again another excellent analysis of where we are and the people than make the decisions.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Thinking about this some more, I think that letting Partey go is a mistake. We have enough disruption/rebuilding to do as it is without now having to find another player in Partey's position, and finding someone at his level will cost £50/£60M plus - that will have a knock on effect on other transfers. We are supposed to be aiming to win things next season. A new player carries risk, and will need bedding in. Partey's traditional injury record is not good, but last season was exceptional. As for Partey leaving and the club not signing anyone to replace him, we have surely learned enough not to be taking risks with little cover in his position - and putting a massive burden on the incoming Zubimendi. And I'm not keen on the idea of shifting MLS into MF and leaving us with just Cala if he does...

Does keeping Partey on his wages for a year's extension really harm us, in the circumstances.

Problem is that I think we will let him go - and won't deal with the above problems well enough.

Well that's actually what buying Zubimendi is for to replace/upgrade on Partey.

I imagine the plan was to have Zubi as no.1 and Partey drop to no.2 to fill in as Zubi adapts to the prem.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I've known for a while that discussions with you is all about winning but surely even you can do better than making up things I never said... on second thought, maybe not :)

First off I think it’s the pot calling the kettle black for you to accuse people of that, given you made a whole post about me essentially being on the side of trust the process.

Secondly about Leeds you said the following

“Starting off with Leeds brings back funny memories from the O'Leary days.

Who would have thought that with all the ambition they showed during his days they'd become a yoyo club (and not even a good one for that matter”


And look where that “ambition” got them?

That comes across to me as you speaking admiringly of their recklessness, I suppose in the way when I say to you not everything the club does is stupid you see it as being a company man.

[IBK]

:gp: in general and I'd like to point out your last paragraph helps me with a different ongoing argument I am having with a "trust the process" HCZ about how good our suits have been in managing our affairs.

Initially when the Forbes list came out in 2007, we were the 3rd biggest club in the world financially based on value and only behind Man U and Madrid (we were practically the same size as Madrid though).

At that time Man U was only about one and a half times bigger than us. All the other clubs in England were miles behind us. Liverpool and Chelsea were roughly 2 times smaller than us, while Spurs and Citeh were 4 times smaller than us.

Almost 20 years later, we are number 8 in the world and we've actually improved quite a lot in the last 3 years after dropping to as low as no 11 in the world and no 6 in England. However Man U and Real Madrid have consistently remained in the top places of every list in the past 20 years never going below no 3 and are currently no 2 and 1 respectively.

In England specifically, Man U is currently twice the size of us, Liverpool & Citeh are one and a half times bigger than us, while Chelsea and Spurs are pretty much at par with us (they were ahead of us a year ago).

Clearly in the last 20 years we've had the lowest growth among our rivals financially (and probably in every other aspect despite consistently always charging the highest on average for season tickets), and it's obviously not only about titles as Man U and Tottenham wouldn't be doing so well despite their erratic form.

So when some of us who are familiar with this world lambast our suits for being shortsighted and acting like mini shopkeepers, its clearly something evidenced by something as unbiased as our value to the unapologetic outside world....which permeates even into things like the transfer market.

Really interesting topic this.

We are losing our position as one of the biggest clubs because of our lack of success in winning major trophies, and IMO you are right that we do not have the pull that Arteta/the club thinks we do. Unltimately, unlike we Gooners the outside world doesn't really give a shit that we have been runners up in the league 3x, and got to the CL semis. For all that he has improved us, Arteta is still a relative rookie with no winning track record. And we do not have the petro dollars to make up for our lack of footballing pull.

We have a traditionally big worldwide fanbase - but this is largely based on the exploits of Henry, Bergkamp and the Invincibles and a reputation for playing pretty football. This reputation is dying out, and if we are honest our current style of play is not really gaining new fans. Success is imperative for us.

I think that this is a big reason why its so frustrating to see us dithering. For anyone taking an interest in our club from outside, I think our reputation undoubtedly took a hit as a result of disastrous transfer windows last season, and our failure to prevent Liverpool from cruising to the title effectively with a couple of months to spare. Literally nothing that we are hearing so far this Summer is giving any indication that we really mean business. I mean - even the Zubimendi transfer has come under question - notwithstanding that this is apparently a done deal. If we are honest - we do not look like an outfit with any real ambition to enhance our postion as a top world club. Reputationally, landing a truly world class player (and I don't even include Gyokores or Sesko here) is very important for us, but from all we can see even or transfer targets - let alone the likes of Nico Williams and Rodrigo - are pretty lukewarm on joining the project.

I hope I am wrong, but currently I don't have a great feeling about how this is all going to play out - and I can see a relatively small time approach this Summer leading to failure next season...

[IBK]

Well that's actually what buying Zubimendi is for to replace/upgrade on Partey.

I imagine the plan was to have Zubi as no.1 and Partey drop to no.2 to fill in as Zubi adapts to the prem.

Sure - but this falls apart if Partey is allowed to leave.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well that's actually what buying Zubimendi is for to replace/upgrade on Partey.

I imagine the plan was to have Zubi as no.1 and Partey drop to no.2 to fill in as Zubi adapts to the prem.

Yes I think that was the plan

It was a horrible and stupid plan but a plan all the same, because the consequence of that plan was to have Rice a defensive midfielder as no8, and Merino who can barely function in any role as a midfielder as his backup

My plan would be to only play Rice and Zubimendi together when we are playing teams that will give us space. And play two creative midfielders against the rest (my ideal would be that person would be Morgan Rodgers)

And therefore whichever striker we signed, would have more space to operate in


But given we almost certainly won’t do that, I’d much rather the striker who can operate in tight spaces and score with headers

But for all the criticism of Arteta that comes this way, it’s interesting that this suggestion is treated like a suggestion of using your first born kids as a blood sacrifice

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sure - but this falls apart if Partey is allowed to leave.

Good if that was the plan, of course it means more money will be wasted on a defensive midfielder rather than doing the obvious thing. But it leaves at least the option of doing the obvious thing

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I agree it's a good point

on your penultimate para, tbf Man Ure are living off their reputation and the fact those that only support them because they used to win all the time are now locked into hoping those times come back

and spuds have a media circus which fawns over them and insists including them in a 'top six' even though (before recently obvs) they'd not won anything in a very long time and quite often stunk the place out

The point Mac is there is more than one way to create value in a business and winning things has never been the only way as evidenced by the two teams you mentioned and most of the top sporting brands in the US.

Anyway since this is a transfer thread, lets look at the transfer business and recruitment as one way.

In the last 20 years when we think about players we sold at their peak who had some level of superstardom and were on an upward trajectory I think Henry, RVP, Fabregas and Sanchez off the top of my head. Henry (16m), Fab (25m), RVP (23m) and Sanchez (35m), basically a world beating total of under £100m for the superstars our club was largely built around for the last 20 years. Merchandising value hasn't been great on these 4 players as Henry left quite early in this timeline (2007) and the other 3 left in largely bitter situations.

For Man U, I'd really only need to mention Ronaldo leaving at £80m. They also managed to make about £112m from the sales of both Di Maria and Lukaku but in general their net spend on players has been poor. However I believe Man U's "success" in the player recruitment has been tying their brand with legends no one will forget anytime soon like Ronaldo, Rooney, RVP, Berbatov,Ibrahimovic and then Ronaldo again etc. This kind of policy, which is basically the Mancunian form of "galaticos", has served Real Madrid for ages, and is why even if they aren't winning, people still show affection for these stars they loved so much and thus for the brand. It's really basic sports marketing and taken from the US playbook.

So we come to our own "noisy" neighbours. In the last 20 years we had Berbatov leaving for £30m, Modric for £30m, Bale for £85m and old man Kane for £86m. Unlike us and Man U, they're probably one of the best teams when it comes to net spend and making money off player sales in genery. Kane and Son also did great jobs for their marketing and merchandising.

In short, their suits have fought the battles off field pretty well by doing the basics while keeping their fans, and more importantly outsiders, believing that success is just around the corner. While we've gone the other way by making our fans and outsiders believe we'll always be bridesmaid but never the bride (seeing as we won't leave our comfort zone or ever try hard enough)

Henry said something about Man U a while back, that despite how bad we all say they are doing they've been in 5 proper finals since the last time we made a final. I'll look for it and add it to this post.

https://youtube.com/shorts/85_0yskwYTg?si=PIUzl_QKtJd981JS

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Really interesting topic this.

We are losing our position as one of the biggest clubs because of our lack of success in winning major trophies, and IMO you are right that we do not have the pull that Arteta/the club thinks we do. Unltimately, unlike we Gooners the outside world doesn't really give a shit that we have been runners up in the league 3x, and got to the CL semis. For all that he has improved us, Arteta is still a relative rookie with no winning track record. And we do not have the petro dollars to make up for our lack of footballing pull.

We have a traditionally big worldwide fanbase - but this is largely based on the exploits of Henry, Bergkamp and the Invincibles and a reputation for playing pretty football. This reputation is dying out, and if we are honest our current style of play is not really gaining new fans. Success is imperative for us.

I think that this is a big reason why its so frustrating to see us dithering. For anyone taking an interest in our club from outside, I think our reputation undoubtedly took a hit as a result of disastrous transfer windows last season, and our failure to prevent Liverpool from cruising to the title effectively with a couple of months to spare. Literally nothing that we are hearing so far this Summer is giving any indication that we really mean business. I mean - even the Zubimendi transfer has come under question - notwithstanding that this is apparently a done deal. If we are honest - we do not look like an outfit with any real ambition to enhance our postion as a top world club. Reputationally, landing a truly world class player (and I don't even include Gyokores or Sesko here) is very important for us, but from all we can see even or transfer targets - let alone the likes of Nico Williams and Rodrigo - are pretty lukewarm on joining the project.

I hope I am wrong, but currently I don't have a great feeling about how this is all going to play out - and I can see a relatively small time approach this Summer leading to failure next season...

Good post and again in total agreement.

Let's be honest, if Citeh, Liverpool, Chelsea or Man U had finished 2nd three times in a row, and everyone pointed out a striker was one of the main reasons, who here is in doubt that they'd all be going after Isak and he'd eventually move.

Ferguson did exactly that when he took RVP from us and subsequently won the title. In fact it can be argued he was only replicating this trick which he had tried earlier when he took Berbatov from the Spuds years earlier.

Striker, Partey, more creative attackers....these are not questions a club that is serious about winning things and has come 2nd three times in a row should be dilly dallying on or still not have convincing answers too at this point in time IMO.... I just hope this coming season will the be the straw that breaks the camel's back and meaningful change happens in the club organically or however, whatever it takes to stop this turgid cycle.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The point Mac is there is more than one way to create value in a business and winning things has never been the only way as evidenced by the two teams you mentioned and most of the top sporting brands in the US.

Anyway since this is a transfer thread, lets look at the transfer business and recruitment as one way.

In the last 20 years when we think about players we sold at their peak who had some level of superstardom and were on an upward trajectory I think Henry, RVP, Fabregas and Sanchez off the top of my head. Henry (16m), Fab (25m), RVP (23m) and Sanchez (35m), basically a world beating total of under £100m for the superstars our club was largely built around for the last 20 years. Merchandising value hasn't been great on these 4 players as Henry left quite early in this timeline (2007) and the other 3 left in largely bitter situations.

For Man U, I'd really only need to mention Ronaldo leaving at £80m. They also managed to make about £112m from the sales of both Di Maria and Lukaku but in general their net spend on players has been poor. However I believe Man U's "success" in the player recruitment has been tying their brand with legends no one will forget anytime soon like Ronaldo, Rooney, RVP, Berbatov,Ibrahimovic and then Ronaldo again etc. This kind of policy, which is basically the Mancunian form of "galaticos", has served Real Madrid for ages, and is why even if they aren't winning, people still show affection for these stars they loved so much and thus for the brand. It's really basic sports marketing and taken from the US playbook.

So we come to our own "noisy" neighbours. In the last 20 years we had Berbatov leaving for £30m, Modric for £30m, Bale for £85m and old man Kane for £86m. Unlike us and Man U, they're probably one of the best teams when it comes to net spend and making money off player sales in genery. Kane and Son also did great jobs for their marketing and merchandising.

In short, their suits have fought the battles off field pretty well by doing the basics while keeping their fans, and more importantly outsiders, believing that success is just around the corner. While we've gone the other way by making our fans and outsiders believe we'll always be bridesmaid but never the bride (seeing as we won't leave our comfort zone or ever try hard enough)

Henry said something about Man U a while back, that despite how bad we all say they are doing they've been in 5 proper finals since the last time we made a final. I'll look for it and add it to this post.

https://youtube.com/shorts/85_0yskwYTg?si=PIUzl_QKtJd981JS

You accept I trust or at least hope that clubs get bigger price tags for players that they don’t want to lose (the exception to this rule being financially doped clubs that stockpile players).

The last player I can think of that left the club despite us not wanting to get rid of him was Alexis Sanchez (and we got cash plus one of United’s first team players for him). The only time we go after players that the clubs are ok getting rid of are players that they can afford to lose because of the abundance of quality throughout the team.


Plus need I remind you that we got over 70 million for Nketiah and Balogun.

And if you’re finding yourself envious of the car crash that is United. You do reach the point where it’s not unreasonable for someone to suggest you’ve either got a) an agenda or b) have become so entrenched in a certain way of thinking that even one of the worst run clubs in the world is doing better than us.


There are legitimate charges against the club, from the fact that it did not put up a fight when Arteta went for a power grab, its failure to address what was desperately needed both last summer and in January. It’s prioritising slimming the wage bill rather than having a big enough squad not to run our players into the ground through injury. And Uber alles, the fact that we all know that it prizes the club as a financial asset far more than as one that wins the top prizes

It’s almost as if, one can hold this view and also be of the view that it could be a lot fucking worse. Take away clubs that cheat (so basically Chelsea, Man City and Paris St Germain) and I’d say that only Liverpool is overall a better run club than us because it does what it needs to do, and it treats the head coach like a head coach and not part Fuhrer/part Svengali.

The team is hard to beat, we coped better with injuries that almost any other club with the same volume of injuries and a season which we can all agree was not one we will remember with much fondness, we finished 2nd and reached the semi final of the European cup

That we want more and believe (not unreasonably) that we can get much more, probably doesn’t suggest that we are run by circus clowns

IBK raises a lot of legitimate points and is worried that by standing still we will end up going backwards, it would be nice for us to have been more proactive than we’ve been in the transfer market so far. I think that’s partly because those at the club know we are working on a tight budget given what our ambitions are (I think we probably have around £250 million to spend before player sales) in terms of bolstering the squad in terms of quality and number


So if your charge is that KSE is not ambitious enough you’ll get no argument from me. If your charge is to twist everything the club does into a negative especially compared to other premier league clubs, yeah I’m less sympathetic

[Niall_Quinn]

People can dig through the weeds all they want, but after the last two transfer windows and the blinding evidence of how those two windows robbed us of very possible title and CL wins (the very things that would have eased all aspects of revenue, recruitment and retention) it falls on the club to demonstrate to the fans and our opponents that there's no more fucking around, mistakes have been made but lessons have been learned, and we have a decisive and ambitious plan moving forwards!

Which means it falls on deaf ears.

If Garnacho is fucking off from Utd, why didn't we bring him here? He'd be great on the left, rotating with Martinelli. Instead the rumours about the latter fucking off persist. People who don't know anything about football know we need a ready-made striker who can score the goals we couldn't last season. So instead of doing that we'll forego winning for another couple of seasons while we nurture a better Havertz. Presumably that leaves us with Havertz in the meantime? Is Trossard off too? Loads of kids have been booted from the academy, our one success story. Seems to me we're losing more than we are promising to bring in. One project striker for Arteta to mould into the ultimate backpassing striker? One winger when maybe two are out the door? A midfielder who enters through one door while another leaves through the other? Where's the "strength" in that?

The rumours on the net are ludicrous of course - we're signing everyone all the time. But peering through that shit mist, seems we are dithering around trying to make the "done deal" with Zubimendi and done deal, humming and hawing over Sesko's fee, and scouting around for a winger to replace who we'll lose, Williams by the sound of it. I don't see how that gets us any close to a title. If anything it cements our style of play which is all but a guarantee of failure.

So I get transfers aren't a snap of the fingers, I get players and agents fuck around and try to snout up the last penny, I get the football authorities are corrupt cunts who open and close windows so they can run more piggy profiteering "trophy" competitions. It's a shitshow of greed and incompetence. But if you had to guess in advance who would be the club mostly likely to fuck around during the window, who would you say? It's a tradition now.

They needed to get it right fast this window, to put those other windows to bed. Well they already fucked that up. Now they need to actually do something in the coming weeks, and no guarantees they won't fuck that too.

[HCZ_Reborn]

How bout this Humidity

[Chippy]

How bout this Humidity

:haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Shouldn’t read paper talk but apparently we are looking to offload Zinchenko, Kiwior and Calafiori to raise funds for a Striker

There’s two things wrong with that as I see it. If we are needing to raise funds to buy a striker there are questions needing to be asked of KSE. We know that we want to offload players this summer (Zinchenko I’m happy for him to go but I see both Kiwior and Calafiori as useful squad players and I don’t want to piss around with us signing more defenders) but it should be simply players that are surplus to requirements.

If Trossard doesn’t want a new contract he should go, Jesus needs to go, Lokonga and Vieira need to go (Arteta clearly doesn’t want him, he’s expected to be left out of pre-season). I genuinely like Tomiyasu but really it makes no sense to keep a player who just will never play due to frequent injury

I think a back line of Timber, White, Kiwior, Calafiori, Gabriel, Saliba and Lewis-Skelly is sufficient for our purposes

My other gripe is if it’s true that Partey is going that we will go into the market for a defensive midfielder. Why? Assuming Zubimendi isn’t going to fuck off to Madrid last moment we have 2-3 defensive midfielders remaining. We have barely any cover for Odegaard (Nwaneri would be it, but he seems to be preferred on the right even though I think he’s better in the middle). But we need to stop playing defensive midfielders at 8, so if Partey goes that money needs to go on a creative midfielder, there’s no need to strangle the life out of the game against mid table teams.

But this comes back to the disturbing rumour that the club seems to want us to pay for players with player sales. It’s reported in the Mirror, so it’s about as reliable as bbc news or sky reporting on the Gaza conflict but I think we all recognise that the Kroenkes don’t give a fuck about us winning the title or champions league, they are delighted with three 2nd place finishes so may well be looking to achieve that with minimum expenditure.

Not that I would be heartbroken by this turn of events, but it seems far more realistic to me that if that’s the case Arteta walks next year because of a lack of financial support by the board rather than is sacked for not achieving big prizes


And as an addendum, bollocks to those who accuse me of being “Trust the process”, I don’t need to envy Chelsea, or fucking Man United or Spurs to criticise the club….nor do I need to take the position of criticising it for everything it does.

However if the club in this summer window does prove itself that it’s prioritising minimum spending over the big trophies. There should be massive protests from fans outside the stadium. Make Tom Selleck and his idiot son so uncomfortable every time they come here that they want to sell up.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

As mentioned earlier, Romano is reporting that our apparent first choice Williams has agreed a 6 year deal with Barca and is indeed accepting a measly €7m a year to make it happen.

Barca should be announcing this signing in the next few days.

I'd honestly kill to be a fly on the wall at the next meeting when Arteta and our transfer Tsars discuss their progress and their unique formula of chasing players for over a year, while leaving the ones who do show earnest interest stuck in some sort of limbo that later requires therapy where they discuss their abandonment issues :lol:

Seriously though, let's hope the approach changes dramatically in the next few days, fingers crossed.

[HCZ_Reborn]

As mentioned earlier, Romano is reporting that our apparent first choice Williams has agreed a 6 year deal with Barca and is indeed accepting a measly €7m a year to make it happen.

Barca should be announcing this signing in the next few days.

I'd honestly kill to be a fly on the wall at the next meeting when Arteta and our transfer Tsars discuss their progress and their unique formula of chasing players for over a year, while leaving the ones who do show earnest interest stuck in some sort of limbo that later requires therapy where they discuss their abandonment issues :lol:

Seriously though, let's hope the approach changes dramatically in the next few days, fingers crossed.

Our “Apparent” first choice, who for as long as I can remember was also reported to be wanting to go to Barcelona

The same reports who also claimed we weren’t after him because of his wage demands (so if he’s accepting what would be the equivalent of £114k a week, which sounds about right given Barca have a massive problem with their wage bill, but this will also likely be topped up with all kinds of clause add ons…also possibly makes that report bullshit)

Frankly apart from the fact that most newspaper reports are bullshit anyway, he hasn’t consistently been linked with us since January anyhow.

[KSE Comedy Club]

As mentioned earlier, Romano is reporting that our apparent first choice Williams has agreed a 6 year deal with Barca and is indeed accepting a measly €7m a year to make it happen.

Barca should be announcing this signing in the next few days.

I'd honestly kill to be a fly on the wall at the next meeting when Arteta and our transfer Tsars discuss their progress and their unique formula of chasing players for over a year, while leaving the ones who do show earnest interest stuck in some sort of limbo that later requires therapy where they discuss their abandonment issues :lol:

Seriously though, let's hope the approach changes dramatically in the next few days, fingers crossed.

Ben Jacobs was saying on talksport that we are waiting until July to conduct our business for financial reporting reasons.

Which based on the current date must be true.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Romano had a recent chat with Sesko's agent....someone clearly handed him Arteta's cheatsheet ;)




Nothing is done yet at this stage, not even on personal terms. The story is still open and fans are waiting to understand what’s going to happen with the RB Leipzig striker.

In an exclusive interview with GIVEMESPORT, Sesko’s agent Elvis Basanovic has clarified the current situation - speaking for the first time in months.

Asked if he sees the Arsenal striker race as being between Sesko and Viktor Gyokeres, Basanovic said:

“Well, thanks for the question. I got many similar questions in last days! It’s not correct to speak about names of clubs that are interested in Sesko. But maybe it is right to clarify a few things."

We’re happy to hear from you, as this Sesko-Gyokeres story is one of the sagas of the summer: what’s happening with this saga?

The agent added:

Let me tell you: Sesko is not competing with anyone. It’s him vs him every day. We have a clear plan for the future and media speculation doesn’t affect us.

Sesko is not just a striker, he is a special striker.

The plan remains to leave RB Leipzig this summer?

“Well, his numbers at his age compared to some strikers with already great careers at his age are confirming my words. He will move from RB Leipzig only when we recognise a special club, a special project with a special coach."

There are rumours about you pressing Leipzig for Sesko to leave for a lower fee to join Arsenal. Is that true?

“This is far from truth! We respect RB Leipzig and I am 100% convinced RB Leipzig will also respect our decision for the next step when we decide to do it."

When is that going to happen? When is Sesko leaving?

“It can be next week... or next year, or in 3 years!”

Do you have a message about Sesko’s transfer situation for all the fans asking?

Even if there may be - or will be - a strong desire of the player to move to a certain club, we will never force or blackmail RB Leipzig. I believe this is not the right way, because the way you actually exit from the club shows your values. Values that you are bringing into a new club.

I can understand in very big transfers, there are a lot of different interests but no matter what, I believe in football world should be more respect. So that’s why we do things in the right way or we don’t do them. It’s very simple, even maybe in the media it looks very complicated.

https://www.givemesport.com/romano-exclusive-benjamin-seskos-agent-shares-update-on-arsenal-transfer/

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ben Jacobs was saying on talksport that we are waiting until July to conduct our business for financial reporting reasons.

Which based on the current date must be true.

Hmmm...did he really.

What he is saying would only make sense if there was actually no money to spend in January (as against what the club said and the bid that was made) as it limits how much we can spend in the new reporting period i.e. if we assume we had £50m to spend in January, we can't just add that to lets say £200m we have to spend in the next period. Accounting and FSR regulations won't allow that.

In short, the action he mentioned reduces how much we can actually spend on transfers as a whole, while actually increasing how much we could declare as profit (if there is any), which by now we know only helps one party (in the short term BTW).

[HCZ_Reborn]

A lot of this sounds like “we are making stuff up in lieu of anything to report” - a standard practice in summer transfer time

I think it’s pretty reasonable for fans to be perturbed that there is nothing to report, because it implies nothing is going on (although equally that’s not necessarily the case)

Ornstein is largely the only one who is worth listening to when discussing transfers as they pertain to us. Fabrizio Romano is a glorified ITK

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ben Jacobs was saying on talksport that we are waiting until July to conduct our business for financial reporting reasons.

Which based on the current date must be true.

So just confirmed he's likely wrong as, as just like Liverpool, we close our books in May of this year, so we've been in our new reporting period since the beginning of this month.

So any transfer we make in June/July really makes no difference for us as we're already in the new reporting cycle.

As for the teams we are buying from, it could make a difference for them, like the case with Real Sociedad, but really nothing stops anyone from getting into pre-agreements now and reporting them in July.

A good read concerning PSR (EPL's version of FSR) is below. Oh, and if we are seriously interested in any Villa player, our best bet is to act before the end of this month.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6384537/2025/06/05/psr-premier-league-clubs-risk/

[KSE Comedy Club]

So just confirmed he's likely wrong as, as just like Liverpool, we close our books in May of this year, so we've been in our new reporting period since the beginning of this month.

So any transfer we make in June/July really makes no difference for us as we're already in the new reporting cycle.

As for the teams we are buying from, it could make a difference for them, like the case with Real Sociedad, but really nothing stops anyone from getting into pre-agreements now and reporting them in July.

A good read concerning PSR (EPL's version of FSR) is below. Oh, and if we are seriously interested in any Villa player, our best bet is to act before the end of this month.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6384537/2025/06/05/psr-premier-league-clubs-risk/

Yep, cheers for that.

I thought it was odd but now it appears he was giving his opinion rather than just giving actual facts.

[KSE Comedy Club]

New update:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQVKkXImYaw

Di marzio:


Gyokores has an agreement with Arsenal: the Swede will go to London or in any case will do nothing but wait for the two clubs to reach an agreement

Also, Alex Crook on Talksport says he received a text in the last 24 hours from his contact: Gyokores has told friends and family that he expects to join Arsenal this summer and is waiting on an agreement being reached.


I still think we should be going balls to the wall & signing him, Sesko Rodrygo, a creative MF (for HCZ) a GK and seeing what else we need.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

New update:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQVKkXImYaw

Di marzio:



Also, Alex Crook on Talksport says he received a text in the last 24 hours from his contact: Gyokores has told friends and family that he expects to join Arsenal this summer and is waiting on an agreement being reached.


I still think we should be going balls to the wall & signing him, Sesko Rodrygo, a creative MF (for HCZ) a GK and seeing what else we need.

Nice to know someone else remembers we've been chasing Nico for over a year and losing him to a team which is only able to pay him far less than we pay a Martinelli is indeed worrying.

Anyway, nice channel you discovered, and I hope he is right about Gyokeres...but honestly my bet is on this ending sour due to our prediclection for only those who bother to play hard to get ;)

[HCZ_Reborn]

New update:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQVKkXImYaw

Di marzio:



Also, Alex Crook on Talksport says he received a text in the last 24 hours from his contact: Gyokores has told friends and family that he expects to join Arsenal this summer and is waiting on an agreement being reached.


I still think we should be going balls to the wall & signing him, Sesko Rodrygo, a creative MF (for HCZ) a GK and seeing what else we need.

It’s nice that you think of me but the creative midfielder isn’t for me. It’s for all of us :)

Should it happen (which I sorely doubt) you can thank me six months down the line…when we aren’t huffing and puffing at home to Crystal Palace

[HCZ_Reborn]

Noni Madueke? Fuck off

I don’t mind buying a backup keeper from Chelsea, but not giving those bastards another 60-70 million

[KSE Comedy Club]

Noni Madueke? Fuck off

I don’t mind buying a backup keeper from Chelsea, but not giving those bastards another 60-70 million

I was just going to post the same

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/35382625/arsenal-transfer-news-live-madueke-zubimendi-yildiz-updates/

If we get him then we should riot tbh.

Absolutely fucking disgraceful to even be looking at him - another Chelsea reject ffs.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I was just going to post the same

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/35382625/arsenal-transfer-news-live-madueke-zubimendi-yildiz-updates/

If we get him then we should riot tbh.

Absolutely fucking disgraceful to even be looking at him - another Chelsea reject ffs.

I remember saying something similar about the prospect of us signing Welbz over ten years ago but that was largely in jest :lol:

I think a lot of this stuff newspapers run with is Agents pimping out their clients. Chelsea probably going to go berserk in the window after fiddling the books so probably thinks Madueke might be moved on, and he wants a big fat cut from a potential transfer. I think honestly that’s what 90% of transfer gossip is

[KSE Comedy Club]

I remember saying something similar about the prospect of us signing Welbz over ten years ago but that was largely in jest :lol:

I think a lot of this stuff newspapers run with is Agents pimping out their clients. Chelsea probably going to go berserk in the window after fiddling the books so probably thinks Madueke might be moved on, and he wants a big fat cut from a potential transfer. I think honestly that’s what 90% of transfer gossip is

:lol:

Oh without a doubt this is agent/media talk. I did read that Chelsea are looking at bringing in someone else which is why Madueke is being touted. He's probably worried about playing time (shock)

But it would be nice if our name wasn't linked with every bloody chav player when they start getting itchy feet.

[Marc Overmars]

Chelsea have a very deep pool of talent and I think we could do a lot worse than Madueke, however I’d rather we didn’t keep helping them balance their books. Arsenal will always be an easy move for a Chelsea player so I guess that’s why we’re linked with their players every year.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Chelsea have a very deep pool of talent and I think we could do a lot worse than Madueke, however I’d rather we didn’t keep helping them balance their books.

:gp:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Chelsea have a very deep pool of talent and I think we could do a lot worse than Madueke, however I’d rather we didn’t keep helping them balance their books.

Main problem with signing Chelsea players (apart from what you’ve pointed out) is that most of their players will be on absurd wages already, which means we have to match that and inflating the wage bill will impact us in other more important areas. That and I don’t think Madueke is that great, I mean he’s ok but is he raising our level? No

[KSE Comedy Club]

Ornstein has tweeted that Zubi is in London to meet Arsenal officials today to finalise his deal.

The Arsenal stadium is also closed today for media duties.

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2025/06/20/martin-zubimendi-arsenal-transfer-ornstein/


Martin Zubimendi to Arsenal looks like a done deal as David Ornstein has posted on X about the Real Sociedad defensive midfielder being in London.

Zubimendi looks to have arrived in London to complete the formalities of his transfer from Sociedad to Arsenal, which Ornstein says has long been regarded as a done deal inside the Emirates Stadium.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ornstein has tweeted that Zubi is in London to meet Arsenal officials today to finalise his deal.

The Arsenal stadium is also closed today for media duties.

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2025/06/20/martin-zubimendi-arsenal-transfer-ornstein/

TBH, I expected Alonso to hijack the deal.

Good to hear.

[HCZ_Reborn]

TBH, I expected Alonso to hijack the deal.

Good to hear.

Wouldn’t have been Alonso, head coach at Madrid gets zero say over transfers. In fact I read that Alonso was after him (Zubimendi) and he was politely reminded by the upper echelons of Madrid that transfers were outside of his jurisdiction

[Mac76]

I think people are too sweepingly negative about Chelsea players, each needs to judged on its merits, Cech, Luiz, Willian and Sterling (though he was only an emergency loan) were all fails, but Havertz and Jorg have worked well

The fact is Chelsea over-bought so have good players they're not giving time to

I think Madueke could be a good squad addition to back Saka, as well on as on the left, that said i wouldn't want to pay more than about 35-40m

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think people are too sweepingly negative about Chelsea players, each needs to judged on its merits, Cech, Luiz, Willian and Sterling (though he was only an emergency loan) were all fails, but Havertz and Jorg have worked well

The fact is Chelsea over-bought so have good players they're not giving time to

I think Madueke could be a good squad addition to back Saka, as well on as on the left, that said i wouldn't want to pay more than about 35-40m

On one hand I think you’re right in that, it makes more sense to assess the player’s ability rather than the club they play for


On the other hand, I think fuck them…if there was any justice in the world the club would be subject to a winding up order and the salty tears of their troglodyte fans would be delicious


It’s a bind.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

In the funniest news of the day, Duncan Castles says apparently Sesko talks are going swimmingly well, but there is one little sticking point :haha:


“I understand that Sesko is asking for an exit clause on any deal he agrees with Arsenal, and he would like that release clause to be set at just 20 percent premium on whatever price Arsenal end up paying Leipzig for the striker.

“Which is quite unusual to ask for when you’re moving from, let’s say, a second-tier European club to a club that’s perceived as a first-tier European club and one of the most financially affluent clubs in European football. I think it’s unlikely Arsenal would agree to a deal on those terms.”

https://www.arsenalinsider.com/transfers/benjamin-sesko-is-now-making-one-specific-demand-to-andrea-berta-that-arsenal-should-never-agree-to/

I know this is all hearsay for now, but like I said earlier it's like both the player and the agent have our cheatsheet and if these reports are to be believed (with the previous interview the agent granted), it seems they really think highly of themselves.

[KSE Comedy Club]

In the funniest news of the day, Duncan Castles says apparently Sesko talks are going swimmingly well, but there is one little sticking point :haha:



https://www.arsenalinsider.com/transfers/benjamin-sesko-is-now-making-one-specific-demand-to-andrea-berta-that-arsenal-should-never-agree-to/

I know this is all hearsay for now, but like I said earlier it's like both the player and the agent have our cheatsheet and if these reports are to be believed (with the previous interview the agent granted), it seems they really think highly of themselves.

Yeh, nothing about this deal seems good so far imo.

He hasn't really reached any kind of top level yet either!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeh, nothing about this deal seems good so far imo.

He hasn't rally reached any kind of top level yet either!

Unlike Gyokeres who has reached the high levels of the Championship and the Portuguese league

:lol:

[Mac76]

Unlike Gyokeres who has reached the high levels of the Championship and the Portuguese league

:lol:

and whom you've conveniently once again forgot to mention that he's has scored a few times in the CL, including a hat-trick, plus achieved record-breaking levels of scoring which shows he has an eye for goal which only help him in whichever league he plays

[HCZ_Reborn]

and whom you've conveniently once again forgot to mention that he's has scored a few times in the CL, including a hat-trick, plus achieved record-breaking levels of scoring which shows he has an eye for goal which only help him in whichever league he plays

What’s that terrible Shania Twain song

That don’t impress me much

He scored 4 non penalty goals in the CL, Sesko got 3. How’s that for context

I know this is very hard for you to accept, but people don’t take differing opinions to you, simply to be contrarian. And I’ve seen the kind of goals he has scored in the Portuguese league and I think the majority of them would be hard to replicate in a league where players can what do you call it? Defend

At his absolute peak I think he could be a speedy Giroud. I see in Sesko, players like Shevchenko and Haaland

[Mac76]

He scored 4 non penalty goals in the CL, Sesko got 3. How’s that for context

I know this is very hard for you to accept, but people don’t take differing opinions to you, simply to be contrarian.


:haha:

so pels don't count all of a sudden because it doesn't suit your argument - tell Saka that versus Real in the CL - his missing that could've swung the game right there, we need someone who can put them away - goals are goals

so it's 6 versus 4

and the contrarian is you as you came in with a contrary position to KSE (though i realise it's partly because you spend your whole life on here and reply to practically everything - what did you do when the board went down btw - take up heroin?)

[HCZ_Reborn]

:haha:

so pels don't count all of a sudden because it doesn't suit your argument - tell Saka that versus Real in the CL - his missing that could've swung the game right there, we need someone who can put them away - goals are goals

so it's 6 versus 4

and the contrarian is you as you came in with a contrary position to KSE (though i realise it's partly because you spend your whole life on here and reply to practically everything - what did you do when the board went down btw - take up heroin?)

No argument so ad hominem, yes all goals count the same and sure to score a penalty takes nerve, but when you’re assessing someone’s skill as a goal scorer it does help to prioritise what they score from open play and other non penalty goals (like we should have done with Pepe and his goal record at Lille)

You seem to be very concerned with how much time I spend on here, I have my phone with me so I can access this place whenever and still live a full satisfying life if that allays your fears :lol:

Let me explain to you how it works, if someone posts something I agree with I either don’t comment or write a short reply (a bit like how you were basically right that it makes more sense to assess a player on his merit than who he plays for). If I don’t agree I will say so.

And the response citing Gyokeres to KSE was whilst genuine also made in a jocular way, I know given you are about as funny as being on the receiving end of a kerb stomping but he’s a tough lad you don’t need to defend his honour.

I know you don’t like me, and you know exactly why I don’t like you (or at least you might if you had a scintilla of self reflection) but if people have a different opinion than me I might think them silly/misguided but I’m not in a state of self delusional psychosis to believe that people all agree with me but can’t admit it to themselves

I don’t rate Gyokeres, I do rate Sesko. It doesn’t need to be more complicated than that

Now, would you like an itinerary of my weekend so that you’re not left worrying that I’m not having enough variety in my existence? :lol:

[Mac76]

As you know it's you that gets personal, you've said the past you don't likeme, which just made me laugh as you know nothing about me which is obvious from things you say

I've no opinion on you other than you take up ridiculous cemented positions on players like Rice and Gakpo even when you're demonstrably wrong, quite genuinely one of the reasons i favour Gyokeres is that you think Sesko would be better

[HCZ_Reborn]

As you know it's you that gets personal, you've said the past you don't likeme, which just made me laugh as you know nothing about me which is obvious from things you say

I've no opinion on you other than you take up ridiculous cemented positions on players like Rice and Gakpo even when you're demonstrably wrong, quite genuinely one of the reasons i favour Gyokeres is that you think Sesko would be better

You call them ridiculous and indefensible because you don’t agree.

You think I’m meant to suddenly change my mind on Gakpo because what he scores a brace against Ipswich Town, I don’t think he’s that great a player. It’s not self evident that he is. This is what I keep trying to explain to you….if I’d said he was terrible and championship level you’d have some claim to say my position was indefensible.

I always thought Rice was bang average before he came to Arsenal, so my position has had to evolve on him. He’s not a player I’d have bought (even with hindsight) let alone spent a 100 million on. I think he’s had quite a few fantastic performances and he’s definitely the hardest working player in the team, he’s clearly got quality in that I think he’s got guile and shows a great talent for spotting danger. But he isn’t for me enough of a dribbler, quick enough or someone who can spot a pass quickly enough to be playing at 8. It’s fine when you’re playing a team that will come out and play, but when it’s abundantly clear even to you that 70% of the games are played against teams that play a mid to low block it doesn’t work anywhere near as well.

So if I was taking the same position about Rice I took two years ago you might have an argument there, but since I don’t you don’t.

You’re right I don’t know you, I can only judge you on what parts of yourself you bring on here. I can only hope for your sake that you’re not bringing the best side of yourself and you’re more than just a weasel of a man in real life :lol: . I don’t know NQ either but I don’t like him either, to the point where if I found out the guy lived on my street I’d move…so try not to take it personally :)

[Letters]

so pels don't count all of a sudden because it doesn't suit your argument
You seem quite dismissive of them when it’s Kane
:ninja:

[HCZ_Reborn]

You seem quite dismissive of them when it’s Kane
:ninja:

Tag, you’re in. Time for my dinner :lol:

[Letters]

:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Unlike Gyokeres who has reached the high levels of the Championship and the Portuguese league

:lol:

And Champions League and international football. But we're spinning a yarn so let's not spoilt it. Why do you have a hard-on for a prospect when we need a striker? Get both - no problem with that. But we ACTUALLY NEED A STRIKER - I think everyone has figured that out at this late stage.

[Niall_Quinn]

What’s that terrible Shania Twain song

That don’t impress me much

He scored 4 non penalty goals in the CL, Sesko got 3. How’s that for context

I know this is very hard for you to accept, but people don’t take differing opinions to you, simply to be contrarian. And I’ve seen the kind of goals he has scored in the Portuguese league and I think the majority of them would be hard to replicate in a league where players can what do you call it? Defend

At his absolute peak I think he could be a speedy Giroud. I see in Sesko, players like Shevchenko and Haaland

It's kind of weird how you have taken up against a player with such passion - and he's not even our player. If we'd have seen this level of commitment when Sterling was being touted I'd understand. This is why I think your "tactical analysis" is based more on you being proven right than actual developments on the pitch. This is why you think Rice is only suited to shuffling the ball in front f the back four. You have another barb thing for him too. Its weird. I have a go at Sterling because he's shit. You have a go at Rice because, for whatever reason, you don't like him. Gyokeres is your new Rice. It's weird.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyway - shit transfer window as always. Well done the Arsenal - you never let us down.

I just hope we don't sign Welbeck.

[Niall_Quinn]

You laugh - but we signed Sterling.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's kind of weird how you have taken up against a player with such passion - and he's not even our player. If we'd have seen this level of commitment when Sterling was being touted I'd understand. This is why I think your "tactical analysis" is based more on you being proven right than actual developments on the pitch. This is why you think Rice is only suited to shuffling the ball in front f the back four. You have another barb thing for him too. Its weird. I have a go at Sterling because he's shit. You have a go at Rice because, for whatever reason, you don't like him. Gyokeres is your new Rice. It's weird.

I don’t have anything against him, i don’t think he’s the right player for us. He could be a top player for a mid level team in the premier league. And given the distinct lack of interest in him from other clubs I’m genuinely confused as to why anyone considers him the real deal. Lots of players score in the Champions League and especially since they expanded the competition lots of shit teams play in the champions league.

What’s weird is thinking that a player who was 24 when he joined us having played his whole career at 6 both for club and country, who isn’t a natural dribbler, isn’t the quickest player going and whilst a decent passer of the ball isn’t a top passer of the ball needs to play at number 8. By all means play him there when we are playing the Real Madrids and Cities of this world where space becomes available, but against a mid block when you need things done quickly to create space no we need a second creative midfielder in there.

What’s weird to me is especially when people note our slow build up play that there is this huge objection to playing two creative midfielders.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And Champions League and international football. But we're spinning a yarn so let's not spoilt it. Why do you have a hard-on for a prospect when we need a striker? Get both - no problem with that. But we ACTUALLY NEED A STRIKER - I think everyone has figured that out at this late stage.

We do Need a striker and I agree when people say we really need two. But I don’t think we are going to sign two…it will make Arteta physically ill to sign just the one. And if we are going to sign only a single striker I’d rather sign one that could become Shevchenko, not one who I think is at best likely to give us Giroud returns

[Niall_Quinn]

We do Need a striker and I agree when people say we really need two. But I don’t think we are going to sign two…it will make Arteta physically ill to sign just the one. And if we are going to sign only a single striker I’d rather sign one that could become Shevchenko, not one who I think is at best likely to give us Giroud returns

Giroud was fucking great - we just got spoiled by Henry. If you could show me a Giroud out there now I'd sign him in a heartbeat. He loved the club too. Was a genuine player. Under-appreciated.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don’t have anything against him, i don’t think he’s the right player for us. He could be a top player for a mid level team in the premier league. And given the distinct lack of interest in him from other clubs I’m genuinely confused as to why anyone considers him the real deal. Lots of players score in the Champions League and especially since they expanded the competition lots of shit teams play in the champions league.

What’s weird is thinking that a player who was 24 when he joined us having played his whole career at 6 both for club and country, who isn’t a natural dribbler, isn’t the quickest player going and whilst a decent passer of the ball isn’t a top passer of the ball needs to play at number 8. By all means play him there when we are playing the Real Madrids and Cities of this world where space becomes available, but against a mid block when you need things done quickly to create space no we need a second creative midfielder in there.

What’s weird to me is especially when people note our slow build up play that there is this huge objection to playing two creative midfielders.

Creative for what? Back passing? What we need is opposition defenders with broken noses. Not opponents who occasionally need to put the teaset down and stroll into position.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gyokeres is an incredibly dirty bastard - did you see that in his play? Okay, so as an Arsenal man he can't do it because we have the Arsenal One-Off Official Only For Them Rule - which is the law! But he won't get pimped out at least.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Giroud was fucking great - we just got spoiled by Henry. If you could show me a Giroud out there now I'd sign him in a heartbeat. He loved the club too. Was a genuine player. Under-appreciated.

If you’re happy with Giroud we can stick with Havertz, his goal return in the league is pretty much the same (as are the misses)

Giroud in the premier league 1 goal every 2.46 games

Havertz in the premier league 1 goal every 2.72 games


My problem is with signing a player who has played most of his career at a low level than the premier league (and I say most by including international and champions leagues games) who probably won’t get any better, and signing him from a league where there’s a consistent record of strikers who perform well there, struggling to reproduce that in other leagues.

The assumption on here is that at the very worst he should be able to score half the goals he scored last season and I think that’s a very big assumption to make (I’m not emphatically saying he won’t). I absolutely understand that people here are saying we need a striker now…I don’t disagree, but then buy someone either from the premier league or at least a league of some reckoning who is already producing (I’ve suggested Lautaro Martinez more than once)

It feels to me (and I could be wrong) that people equate signing Gyokeres as a slam dunk, much in the way it was for United when they signed Van Persie from us and I don’t think that’s the case.

Sesko for me has the potential to be one of the best strikers in Europe, so for me if it’s a choice between two things a prospect or someone who has a high risk of being an expensive flop, I’m backing the prospect.

[Mac76]

You seem quite dismissive of them when it’s Kane
:ninja:

Ha fair cop :)

[Mac76]

Gyokeres is an incredibly dirty bastard - did you see that in his play? Okay, so as an Arsenal man he can't do it because we have the Arsenal One-Off Official Only For Them Rule - which is the law! But he won't get pimped out at least.

As you basically point out, we're not allowed to play that way even though everyone else is. If Havertz wore a Newcastle shirt he'd be able to elbow and push his way through any defence but do it for us and it's yellow/red every time

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

As you basically point out, we're not allowed to play that way even though everyone else is. If Havertz wore a Newcastle shirt he'd be able to elbow and push his way through any defence but do it for us and it's yellow/red every time

Very true.

It's so annoying the way they treat Saka when he decides to give a little back to defenders (though TBF he is the only one they do balance it out for most of the time by calling a lot of fouls for him ).

I think that perception of us being a bunch of dirty "foreign" cheats really affects us, especially in the League and one day we need to be purposeful and try and work on it, even if it requires hiring specialist consultants to understand why we get so much hate (though I think its a bit of a no brainer)

If I was asked though I'd say the easiest way would be to try and get more high profile British players and maybe even go for more culturally intuned managers unfortunately.

Though I wonder if our women's team that has often been accused of being "too white" suffers this kind of partial refereeing .....though my limited understanding is they are a bit like Man U in Fergie's days when it comes to getting referees on their side and the questionable penalties.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Very true.

It's so annoying the way they treat Saka when he decides to give a little back to defenders (though TBF he is the only one they do balance it out for most of the time by calling a lot of fouls for him ).

I think that perception of us being a bunch of dirty "foreign" cheats really affects us, especially in the League and one day we need to be purposeful and try and work on it, even if it requires hiring specialist consultants to understand why we get so much hate (though I think its a bit of a no brainer)

If I was asked though I'd say the easiest way would be to try and get more high profile British players and maybe even go for more culturally intuned managers unfortunately.

Though I wonder if our women's team that has often been accused of being "too white" suffers this kind of partial refereeing .....though my limited understanding is they are a bit like Man U in Fergie's days when it comes to getting referees on their side and the questionable penalties.

I remember sky sports commentary for ages saying things like “Arsenal don’t like it up em” like a bad Clive Dunn impression.

So one suspects if we give it back, it’s seen as an act of petulance.

However I genuinely believe the season just gone was worse than any season in living memory for decisions going against us, especially in regard to being punished for offences that no other team were punished for. I think it comes down to Arteta’s reaction to the Gordon goal for Newcastle (a decision that never really irked me as could have gone either way) and listening to the VAR commentary…they were trying their upmost to not disallow the goal, which to my mind is the right thing…I think you do want to give the attacking team the benefit of the doubt.

Just too often with us it feels they want to do their upmost to not give the goal


The club for me should have been lodging a formal complaint about Pig Mole to the FA for 2024/2025

[Niall_Quinn]

If you’re happy with Giroud we can stick with Havertz, his goal return in the league is pretty much the same (as are the misses)

Giroud in the premier league 1 goal every 2.46 games

Havertz in the premier league 1 goal every 2.72 games


My problem is with signing a player who has played most of his career at a low level than the premier league (and I say most by including international and champions leagues games) who probably won’t get any better, and signing him from a league where there’s a consistent record of strikers who perform well there, struggling to reproduce that in other leagues.

The assumption on here is that at the very worst he should be able to score half the goals he scored last season and I think that’s a very big assumption to make (I’m not emphatically saying he won’t). I absolutely understand that people here are saying we need a striker now…I don’t disagree, but then buy someone either from the premier league or at least a league of some reckoning who is already producing (I’ve suggested Lautaro Martinez more than once)

It feels to me (and I could be wrong) that people equate signing Gyokeres as a slam dunk, much in the way it was for United when they signed Van Persie from us and I don’t think that’s the case.

Sesko for me has the potential to be one of the best strikers in Europe, so for me if it’s a choice between two things a prospect or someone who has a high risk of being an expensive flop, I’m backing the prospect.

Your problem is an invention created by you. Gyokeres HAS NOT spent most of his career playing at a low level. He's an international. But if you keep basing your arguments on this fallacy then there's no answer to your fallacious conclusions.

[Niall_Quinn]

and now let's get real about Sesko. NOBODY ever heard of him until he was linked with us. True? False? Honesty required here. Then we all go away to the YouTube highlight reel and wow, we need this guy who we don't know anything about but looks good on a highlights reel - like everyone else looks good on a highlights reel. Now we suddenly are experts on the player, he's hot, the next big thing. Could even be true - but nobody, anywhere outside those that have worked with him actually know. It's bright, shiny syndrome. Is he so good we can afford another two seasons of not scoring the goals we need? Perhaps, but Arteta won't be around to finish his little project if we go two more seasons without delivering something. Then what, some new manager comes in and says - oh, I know what we need, and the development cycle starts again and we all say, give the new manager time!

With Gyokeres at least we know he'll score SOME goals - let his strike rate drop 50% and we are golden. No brainer, get it done, any side projects aren't derailed by bringing in what we need today. If the Kroenke's will stump up. I'm not against giving Sesko a go, at all! Fine by me.

In the meantime - striker required and we all know that!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Your problem is an invention created by you. Gyokeres HAS NOT spent most of his career playing at a low level. He's an international. But if you keep basing your arguments on this fallacy then there's no answer to your fallacious conclusions.

In his whole career, he’s played at club level in the Allsvenskan, The German second division, the English championship and the Portuguese league

Playing at international level for Sweden (which he’s done since 2019, and didn’t make the cut for the European championship in 2021) where he’s played friendlies and in qualification tournaments doesn’t change that.

Calling it a fallacy because you’ve got no answer for it is just petulance

You rate him I don’t, I’ve explained why I don’t rate him and why I think he’s a high risk signing…you don’t need to accept it. But it’s silly to act like I’m trolling you

[HCZ_Reborn]

and now let's get real about Sesko. NOBODY ever heard of him until he was linked with us. True? False? Honesty required here. Then we all go away to the YouTube highlight reel and wow, we need this guy who we don't know anything about but looks good on a highlights reel - like everyone else looks good on a highlights reel. Now we suddenly are experts on the player, he's hot, the next big thing. Could even be true - but nobody, anywhere outside those that have worked with him actually know. It's bright, shiny syndrome. Is he so good we can afford another two seasons of not scoring the goals we need? Perhaps, but Arteta won't be around to finish his little project if we go two more seasons without delivering something. Then what, some new manager comes in and says - oh, I know what we need, and the development cycle starts again and we all say, give the new manager time!

With Gyokeres at least we know he'll score SOME goals - let his strike rate drop 50% and we are golden. No brainer, get it done, any side projects aren't derailed by bringing in what we need today. If the Kroenke's will stump up. I'm not against giving Sesko a go, at all! Fine by me.

In the meantime - striker required and we all know that!

What you mean by that is you’d not heard of him before we were linked with him

I agree we need a Striker. So if you’re against a Prospect….sign Isaak (who we definitely know will score in the premier league) or Lautaro Martinez

[Niall_Quinn]

In his whole career, he’s played at club level in the Allsvenskan, The German second division, the English championship and the Portuguese league

Playing at international level for Sweden (which he’s done since 2019, and didn’t make the cut for the European championship in 2021) where he’s played friendlies and in qualification tournaments doesn’t change that.

Calling it a fallacy because you’ve got no answer for it is just petulance

You rate him I don’t, I’ve explained why I don’t rate him and why I think he’s a high risk signing…you don’t need to accept it. But it’s silly to act like I’m trolling you

Why is it me being petulant by not trying to play down a player's record simply because I want to sign a different player?

[Niall_Quinn]

What you mean by that is you’d not heard of him before we were linked with him

I agree we need a Striker. So if you’re against a Prospect….sign Isaak (who we definitely know will score in the premier league) or Lautaro Martinez

Sure, I'll have Isak. Except we were told it's a hard no-go. We are told it's between Gyokeres and Sesko. And I specifically said I'm not against a prospect, provided we get a striker in too that can play today.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Why is it me being petulant by not trying to play down a player's record simply because I want to sign a different player?

My opinion on Gyokeres bares no relation to Sesko, if we had the chance to sign both I would not want that. I do not want us to sign Gyokeres full stop.

[Chippy]

My opinion on Gyokeres bares no relation to Sesko, if we had the chance to sign both I would not want that. I do not want us to sign Gyokeres full stop.

Apparently, Sesko's wage demands (probably instigated by his pimps) may scupper any deal for him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Bayern Munich being linked with a move for Martinelli. Unlike others here I’m a big supporter of Martinelli. I don’t want to sell him, but for the right price I’d be open to doing so.

[Chippy]

Bayern Munich being linked with a move for Martinelli. Unlike others here I’m a big supporter of Martinelli. I don’t want to sell him, but for the right price I’d be open to doing so.

If they are thinking of selling Martinelli, they fucking better have some good signings coming in. This transfer window is a shit show so far.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Seems like nothing to me, every article also says they're looking at Gittens/Diaz/Gakpo.

That covers a lot of bases. :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

If they are thinking of selling Martinelli, they fucking better have some good signings coming in. This transfer window is a shit show so far.

Well a few weeks ago I'd be celebrating news like this, but yeah, what they've done so far this month makes me scared to even contemplate the tea lady going on holiday.

Anyway, in a perfect world I'd jump at the offer (£50m I hear is his value) as I've said for ages he's plateued and will not improve under this coach. Would also love we get rid of Trossard and we start afresh on the left with 2 new signings plus someone who can bench Odegaard when he has his monthly period.

I'd mentioned and praised Kvara for ages on here and maybe if Arteta had followed his instincts and gone for him this January we'd be CL champions instead of PSG.

There are loads of good EPL options though I'd be happy we go after like Rogers, Eze, Kudus and Mitoma was mentioned earlier though it seems he had a quiet season last time around (he'd be good to replace Trossard). As for foreign, Lookman is the stand out candidate left IMO. Rodrygo is going no where according to his team and Real Madrid.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I would not want to sell for anything less than 70 million

Out of all the replacements you’ve cited, only Rodgers would particularly interest me

[HCZ_Reborn]

Seems like nothing to me, every article also says they're looking at Gittens/Diaz/Gakpo.

That covers a lot of bases. :lol:

Yeah I have to say even what I’ve read suggests that Martinelli isn’t the number 1 target, like us they were looking at Nico Williams (although I think we baulked at his potential wage demands back in January).


Although Bayern are not the only club that have been linked with Martinelli, however that said Barcelona were more looking at him as a cheaper alternative to Williams

[Mac76]

The transfer news for the last day or two seems to indicate that RB are playing hardball over Sesko's price, while Gyokeres has turned down Man Ure plus at least one other club, and apparently very keen to sign for Arsenal and we can get him for a price we're prepared to pay

If we blow this there's no way back for Arteta or Berta

[HCZ_Reborn]

The transfer news for the last day or two seems to indicate that RB are playing hardball over Sesko's price, while Gyokeres has turned down Man Ure plus at least one other club, and apparently very keen to sign for Arsenal and we can get him for a price we're prepared to pay

If we blow this there's no way back for Arteta or Berta


I find it interesting how, and I don’t preclude myself from this that we’ve allowed ourselves to be pinned into this Sesko vs Gyokeres narrative. I personally like what I see from Sesko (but if RB Leipzig are going to try and stiff us, or Sesko’s own representatives try and make unreasonable contract demands I’m happy to move on), I’m extremely reluctant to go for Gyokeres which has long been the case for me. It’s not worth restating why because we are at a point on here where I’m accused of simply being contrarian, just as I think a lot of people will dismiss any concern I present as a result of motivated reasoning. So it doesn’t get us anywhere.

If we were to sign Gyokeres I think it would only happen perhaps as a last minute change of tact, not getting anywhere with Sesko plus imminent likelihood of him moving to another club….because he is regarded whether people agree with that being the case or not distinctly as a backup option.

My point is that I’d personally hope that we weren’t so myopic to narrow our options to one of two choices anyhow (partly because I don’t want one of the players, and partly because I think that does give the selling club leverage over us).

It’s good to have a shortlist but equally I don’t think any of us wants to see a them or nothing approach. If presented with the option of Gyokeres or nothing it would probably just about land in favour of Gyokeres such is the dire need of a striker, but would be a close thing.

[KSE Comedy Club]

The transfer news for the last day or two seems to indicate that RB are playing hardball over Sesko's price, while Gyokeres has turned down Man Ure plus at least one other club, and apparently very keen to sign for Arsenal and we can get him for a price we're prepared to pay

If we blow this there's no way back for Arteta or Berta

It's not just the fee for Sesko that is the issue.
Apparently they want a release clause in his contract that means we cannot exceed 20% of the purchase price and now there is an issue with his excessive wage demands.

Honestly him & his agent are acting like he is the next Ronaldo or something.

I'm glad we look like we are moving on from him, if that is the case.

[Mac76]

It's not just the fee for Sesko that is the issue.
Apparently they want a release clause in his contract that means we cannot exceed 20% of the purchase price and now there is an issue with his excessive wage demands.

Honestly him & his agent are acting like he is the next Ronaldo or something.

I'm glad we look like we are moving on from him.

I agree if he becomes unobtainable and the result is we get Gyokeres it's a good result, but my concern is we will bugger about for too long and somone else swoops for Gyokeres

tbh Leipzig is doing us a favour, it's a bit like the Mudryk situation, in the end Arteta was forced to give up on him because Chelsea offered so much, and while Arteta was (completely wrongly it turns out) obsessed with him, we were much better off with Leo, Jorg and Kiwior

[KSE Comedy Club]

I agree if he becomes unobtainable and the result is we get Gyokeres it's a good result, but my concern is we will bugger about for too long and somone else swoops for Gyokeres

tbh Leipzig is doing us a favour, it's a bit like the Mudryk situation, in the end Arteta was forced to give up on him because Chelsea offered so much, and while Arteta was (completely wrongly it turns out) obsessed with him, we were much better off with Leo, Jorg and Kiwior

Goldbridge says we are readying an official bid for Gyokores soon :shrug:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Goldbridge says we are readying an official bid for Gyokores soon :shrug:

Goldbridge

:lol: I do like the guy genuinely as despite what’s claimed, he is a genuine United fan (although one it seems with a more realistic view of United’s situation). He’s probably not much more than a bog standard ITK with transfers

[KSE Comedy Club]

Goldbridge

:lol: I do like the guy genuinely as despite what’s claimed, he is a genuine United fan (although one it seems with a more realistic view of United’s situation). He’s probably not much more than a bog standard ITK with transfers

Well, they all are tbh

[Mac76]

Goldbridge says we are readying an official bid for Gyokores soon :shrug:

OK, although I may wait until I hear that from a more 'trustworthy' source :)

does he have much of an inside track - I thought he just ranted at the camera during Utd games and made everyone laugh

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well, they all are tbh

I tend to be reserved on whether a transfer is happening or not until Ornstein reports it, given that hes a circle of access journalist so that if a club wants their fans or the media at large to know about they are either likely to sell a player or buy a player, they will contact him.

Fabrizio Romano thinks of himself in that way and I think he has some important club connections, I think he is a glorified ITK

[Marc Overmars]

Would definitely consider selling Martinelli if a decent offer came in. I like him because he’s the only direct forward we have and sometimes that’s a welcome change given how often we end up overplaying. However I just don’t see something special in him that suggests he could explode into something else here, I feel like he shrinks when he reaches the final third which is not a good look. Now I imagine that could change at a club like Bayern because they’re so dominant but what he’s doing for us is the only thing that matters here.

We shouldn’t be too sentimental with long serving players, City and Liverpool have sold big name players in the past (players better than Martinelli) and replaced them well. You don’t build and succeed by hanging on to players who’ve done ok but not really moved the needle for the team.

[Mac76]

Would definitely consider selling Martinelli if a decent offer came in. I like him because he’s the only direct forward we have and sometimes that’s a welcome change given how often we end up overplaying. However I just don’t see something special in him that suggests he could explode into something else here, I feel like he shrinks when he reaches the final third which is not a good look. Now I imagine that could change at a club like Bayern because they’re so dominant but what he’s doing for us is the only thing that matters here.

We shouldn’t be too sentimental with long serving players, City and Liverpool have sold big name players in the past (players better than Martinelli) and replaced them well. You don’t build and succeed by hanging on to players who’ve done ok but not really moved the needle for the team.

Only if we replaced him with someone better. I don't want to see any weakening of the side. It's weird the way things have turned out with him, you'd think the coaching team could've explained he needs to lift his head up earlier and look for options instead of just playing hopeful balls in.

But he's still one of our quickest players and we don't want to lose what little threat we offer in the transition.

If we sell him to get someone like Rodrygo (though I'm going on other people's observations on him a bit) then fine.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Again only paper talk but linked with Bradley Barcola who definitely has skill in transition

I’m not so sure we would be selling Martinelli though, it’s possible Bayern might go for him if we signed Barcola but who knows

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Would definitely consider selling Martinelli if a decent offer came in. I like him because he’s the only direct forward we have and sometimes that’s a welcome change given how often we end up overplaying. However I just don’t see something special in him that suggests he could explode into something else here, I feel like he shrinks when he reaches the final third which is not a good look. Now I imagine that could change at a club like Bayern because they’re so dominant but what he’s doing for us is the only thing that matters here.

We shouldn’t be too sentimental with long serving players, City and Liverpool have sold big name players in the past (players better than Martinelli) and replaced them well. You don’t build and succeed by hanging on to players who’ve done ok but not really moved the needle for the team.

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

Bayern Munich being linked with a move for Martinelli. Unlike others here I’m a big supporter of Martinelli. I don’t want to sell him, but for the right price I’d be open to doing so.

Yeah, if we sell him it tells us everything we need to know. There are no grey areas after that sale.

[Niall_Quinn]

My opinion on Gyokeres bares no relation to Sesko, if we had the chance to sign both I would not want that. I do not want us to sign Gyokeres full stop.

Well, you changed the focus, but whatever. At least you admit your agenda is based on what you don't want. I'll have Sesko all day long. But will then go all out to get a striker.

[Niall_Quinn]

Again only paper talk but linked with Bradley Barcola who definitely has skill in transition

I’m not so sure we would be selling Martinelli though, it’s possible Bayern might go for him if we signed Barcola but who knows

Barcola is a giant pile of shit. He was a constant source of amusement for me all through that CL campaign that was brimming with shit clubs. But Barcola took the biscuit - prime shit, not your knock-off shit from China. The real deal.

[Niall_Quinn]

Would definitely consider selling Martinelli if a decent offer came in. I like him because he’s the only direct forward we have and sometimes that’s a welcome change given how often we end up overplaying. However I just don’t see something special in him that suggests he could explode into something else here, I feel like he shrinks when he reaches the final third which is not a good look. Now I imagine that could change at a club like Bayern because they’re so dominant but what he’s doing for us is the only thing that matters here.

We shouldn’t be too sentimental with long serving players, City and Liverpool have sold big name players in the past (players better than Martinelli) and replaced them well. You don’t build and succeed by hanging on to players who’ve done ok but not really moved the needle for the team.

So why not sell half the team - particularly that Swedish bloke whose name I've actually forgotten - oh yeah, Odegard.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well, you changed the focus, but whatever. At least you admit your agenda is based on what you don't want. I'll have Sesko all day long. But will then go all out to get a striker.

It’s not an agenda it’s an opinion

I’m all for going all out for a striker, I just don’t think that striker should be Gyokeres.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Barcola is a giant pile of shit. He was a constant source of amusement for me all through that CL campaign that was brimming with shit clubs. But Barcola took the biscuit - prime shit, not your knock-off shit from China. The real deal.

Didn’t you also call Yamal shit, or average. One of the two

[Mac76]

So why not sell half the team - particularly that Swedish bloke whose name I've actually forgotten - oh yeah, Odegard.

You probably did it deliberately, but Odegaard's Norwegian

I'm beginning to think I wouldn't object to selling him as he's becoming a trademark of over-elaborate, too-clever-by-half play that often yields little result, but we'd need to sign a decent replacement and we've enough to do already

What we need to do is get the ball out left more, rather than so much play being sent down the right to Saka/Odegaard

Which btw means Martinelli gets underused, it may be one of the reasons he's not developed as much as we might hope

Much as I like Gabriel, he's particularly culpable of almost completely ignoring our left hand side when he's looking to progress the ball

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

You probably did it deliberately, but Odegaard's Norwegian

I'm beginning to think I wouldn't object to selling him as he's becoming a trademark of over-elaborate, too-clever-by-half play that often yields little result, but we'd need to sign a decent replacement and we've enough to do already

What we need to do is get the ball out left more, rather than so much play being sent down the right to Saka/Odegaard

Which btw means Martinelli gets underused, it may be one of the reasons he's not developed as much as we might hope

Much as I like Gabriel, he's particularly culpable of almost completely ignoring our left hand side when he's looking to progress the ball

I've mentioned that Gabriel thing before, he's really quite reluctant to distribute to the left, though part of me thinks he knows how subpar both players there are.

I totally agree with your assessment of Captain Marvel, though I'd give him one more season to redeem himself, but I think we should identify a solid successor this summer as it make sense and on average it takes us over a year to realise any transfer target :lol:

[KSE Comedy Club]

I tend to be reserved on whether a transfer is happening or not until Ornstein reports it, given that hes a circle of access journalist so that if a club wants their fans or the media at large to know about they are either likely to sell a player or buy a player, they will contact him.

Fabrizio Romano thinks of himself in that way and I think he has some important club connections, I think he is a glorified ITK

Oh I agree, although Fabrizio did post the first pic on his instagram of Zubimendi signing the contract at the Arsenal stadium - so I guess he must have some credibility.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Would definitely consider selling Martinelli if a decent offer came in. I like him because he’s the only direct forward we have and sometimes that’s a welcome change given how often we end up overplaying. However I just don’t see something special in him that suggests he could explode into something else here, I feel like he shrinks when he reaches the final third which is not a good look. Now I imagine that could change at a club like Bayern because they’re so dominant but what he’s doing for us is the only thing that matters here.

We shouldn’t be too sentimental with long serving players, City and Liverpool have sold big name players in the past (players better than Martinelli) and replaced them well. You don’t build and succeed by hanging on to players who’ve done ok but not really moved the needle for the team.

The problem with selling Martinelli is that we would then need to by two LW's.

We are supposed to be strengthening the that area by adding a new player there, which is fine if that is all that happens. But if we sell him as well then we are just swapping one player for another with only Trossard as back up (who isn't as good as Martinelli)

[KSE Comedy Club]

Only if we replaced him with someone better. I don't want to see any weakening of the side. It's weird the way things have turned out with him, you'd think the coaching team could've explained he needs to lift his head up earlier and look for options instead of just playing hopeful balls in.

But he's still one of our quickest players and we don't want to lose what little threat we offer in the transition.

If we sell him to get someone like Rodrygo (though I'm going on other people's observations on him a bit) then fine.

See this is where I disagree.

We should get Rodrygo and keep Martinelli as back up.

Sell Trossard instead as he isn't as good.

[HCZ_Reborn]

See this is where I disagree.

We should get Rodrygo and keep Martinelli as back up.

Sell Trossard instead as he isn't as good.

Yep, I would go with that

[HCZ_Reborn]

Being Linked with Christian Norgaard for reasons that don’t really make sense, even if Partey goes we have three defensive midfielders with Zubimendi coming in and at least two of them are competent even if Merino isn’t

[dazthegooner]

Also isn't Nprgaard 31 hardly the dynamic midfield 'future' they we're seeking.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yep, I would go with that

:good:

[KSE Comedy Club]

"Here we go"

from Fabrizio:

We have signed Kepa for £5m

https://x.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1937808927854403664


Kepa to Arsenal, here we go! Deal done for the Spanish goalkeeper to join #AFC as new backup for David Raya.

Arsenal activate £5m clause from Chelsea and all documents are now sealed.

One more addition for Arteta after Martin Zubimendi.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Also isn't Nprgaard 31 hardly the dynamic midfield 'future' they we're seeking.

There is this French youngster that shares a lot of parallels with Partey that we are apparently looking at, Lucien Agoumé.

Plays for Sevilla and could be available for just £20m. Currently looks like a better deal if you ask me, though my preference remains they do what it takes to get Partey to stay for at least another year.

[Marc Overmars]

If we are trying to sign Norgaard then it must mean that Partey is off.

Low key squad option I suppose but dear me…

[HCZ_Reborn]

My opinion is that even if Partey is off, there’s no need for another defensive midfielder

But then again there’s no need for a defender and yet we will try and sign one anyway

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

If we are trying to sign Norgaard then it must mean that Partey is off.

Low key squad option I suppose but dear me…

Partey is off.....there is almost no way he could agree to be paid less especially when he knows he's still coveted and can earn higher at other top European clubs.

This Agoume transfer looks doable though as just learnt he shares the same agent as Saliba and Sevilla are under financial constraints (they've not even finished paying for the player).

It seems a good deal.

https://arsenalnews.co.uk/2025/06/25/sevilla-rushes-to-secure-agoume-rights-amid-arsenals-20m-push/

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yep it's pretty much official now as everywhere is saying Partey will leave at the end of the month.

[Mac76]

Partey is off.....there is almost no way he could agree to be paid less especially when he knows he's still coveted and can earn higher at other top European clubs.

This Agoume transfer looks doable though as just learnt he shares the same agent as Saliba and Sevilla are under financial constraints (they've not even finished paying for the player).

It seems a good deal.

https://arsenalnews.co.uk/2025/06/25/sevilla-rushes-to-secure-agoume-rights-amid-arsenals-20m-push/

It's probably best to let Partey go we had a good season from him overall but there's nothing to say his injury probs wouldn't surface again

Agoume looks promising, we need further DM cover, Rice is better at 8 and it's unrealistic to expect Zubi to cover for both Partey and Jorg. also Saliba needs cover so another RCB option would be good, I think I heard Hato can play more or less across the back so could be a good option

[HCZ_Reborn]

No Rice is not better at 8 when we are playing stubborn mid block teams, there is zero need for a defensive midfielder. With Zubimendi coming in, we could get rid of Merino and still have cover

Rice can play 8 when we play the likes of Man City and Liverpool, and play at 6 rotationally when we play teams that will sit deep and who we need two creative midfielders to open them up.

Arteta of course won’t do this because he’s stubborn and intractable to the point where he makes Wenger seem malleable. He’s hoping that Zubimendi’s passing distribution will be enough at 6 to start quick attacks, and supposing that’s even true at best we have to hope that Odegaard has given up being a creative refusenik and we will be doubly fucked if we have to rely on that brute Norgaard.

[HCZ_Reborn]

To be honest I look at this summer more in regards to buying players that will have a years playing experience under their belt rather than winning anything worthwhile. It was abundantly clear to me after the season just gone that we are marking time under Arteta, I respect him for making us difficult to beat but that’s simply not enough anymore, and he isn’t capable of making the leap to turning us into winners (as in winning the only two trophies that matter the premier league or the European cup). I’m sure if he put his mind to it, he could have got us another fa cup, won a league cup or even a Europa league (especially now that the competition has been hollowed out). But none of these trophies remotely matter, an fa cup is a nice addition if you’ve won the league as part of the double but other than that…no one should care.
He has rightly prioritised the two main trophies unfortunately he’s proven not up to the task with his poor load management and over cautiousness.

I’m very interested to see how Fabregas gets on at Inter because I think he definitely is a prospective replacement, experience isn’t about how old you are it’s about how many first team games you’ve managed and even a year from now Fabregas will have more experience than Arteta had when he came to us.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Chivu is the head coach at Inter, Fabregas is still at Como.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Chivu is the head coach at Inter, Fabregas is still at Como.

That’s what you get for trusting Fabrizio Romano

[Marc Overmars]

Sounds like the Norgaard deal has accelerated quickly and is pretty much done.

More stodge. :bow:

[Mac76]

Sounds like the Norgaard deal has accelerated quickly and is pretty much done.

More stodge. :bow:

I'm not against it, as per what I said above we need to reduce the minutes of some of our defenders

But obvs not at the expense of Gyokeres and a winger

[Marc Overmars]

I see him as Jorginho’s replacement really. An older head with a bit of leadership and experience.

Zubimendi is the Partey replacement.

Can we please get on with the striker search now.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Sounds like the Norgaard deal has accelerated quickly and is pretty much done.

More stodge. :bow:

Pretty speechless TBH.

It seems when their is a pretty cheap deal for a player no one is after we are then able to work at breathtaking pace.

As for the player, it all about the physicality like you pointed out. Good in the air and ok passer, a pretty safe squad player.

Do I think the £10m we are spending to acquire him and the 4 year contract in wages makes more sense than keeping Partey 2-3 years or going after someone younger....hell no!

It really is funny how this summer has panned out so far... Liverpool inadvertently won the league and are now making a conscious effort to defend their title by going the extra mile and bringing in players like Wirtz and chasing an Isak, basically going haywire and far above everyone's expectations (like Fergie use to do).....while we, who everyone expected to win it last year are signing Norgaards, Kepas and Zubis.....you really couldn't make this shit up.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I see him as Jorginho’s replacement really. An older head with a bit of leadership and experience.

Zubimendi is the Partey replacement.

Can we please get on with the striker search now.

I am beginning to believe that if Liverpool get Isak WTF is the point :shrug: ....we might as well stick with Havertz and Jesus and get a shaman to bless their joints or something.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I am beginning to believe that if Liverpool get Isak WTF is the point :shrug: ....we might as well stick with Havertz and Jesus and get a shaman to bless their joints or something.

I’ll be impressed if they do sign him, after spending so much already on Wirtz

Liverpool is not Man City or Chelsea , they do not have such infinite finances

[Mac76]

Can we please get on with the striker search now.

:gp:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’ll be impressed if they do sign him, after spending so much already on Wirtz

Liverpool is not Man City or Chelsea , they do not have such infinite finances

They are however after Gyokeres apparently :haha:

Although again I think this is his agent trying to get us to make a bid

[Mac76]

Norgaard looks done

[dazthegooner]

They are however after Gyokeres apparently :haha:

Although again I think this is his agent trying to get us to make a bid
Maybe Liverpool are trying the Chelsea method buy everything that moves then see what happens:shrug:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Maybe Liverpool are trying the Chelsea method buy everything that moves then see what happens:shrug:

I doubt it, Liverpool are a well run club.

[Mac76]

Maybe Liverpool are trying the Chelsea method buy everything that moves then see what happens:shrug:

or we could call it making your mind up, getting on with your most important transfer business and being ready for the pre-season

Every day we vacillate over Gyokeres/Sesko increases the chances of our getting neither, Gyokeres has burnt his boats at his club and if he starts giving up on Arsenal he'll I'm sure see Liverpool as a suitable alternative

If he does then Berta's game-playing will backfire as RB will be able to name their price and we'll either have to pay it or at best get Watkins (not a disaster IMO but not the ideal either)

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I'd be shocked if we went for Gyokeres, he doesn't fit the type of player we have been going for at all (he's theoretically reaching/at his peak, and there would be a low chance of selling on value)

As much as I'd love Isak I can't see how that happens either. We probably could afford him but I can't see why Newcastle would sell and I also can't see us getting two marquee signings at once. We will be in for a forward but I think it will be someone who can play across the front line and no older than 25.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'd be shocked if we went for Gyokeres, he doesn't fit the type of player we have been going for at all (he's theoretically reaching/at his peak, and there would be a low chance of selling on value)

As much as I'd love Isak I can't see how that happens either. We probably could afford him but I can't see why Newcastle would sell and I also can't see us getting two marquee signings at once. We will be in for a forward but I think it will be someone who can play across the front line and no older than 25.

No I agree, plus you could argue that Liverpool already had their fingers burnt signing a striker who plays in Portuguese league


If I was Liverpool I’d be looking first and foremost at a centre back, Van Dijk is 34 and you are vulnerable at the back when he doesn’t play. You’ve replaced AA and I’m guessing Kerkez is a long term replacement for Robertson?

But a top centre half (which precludes Mark Guehi in my view) would be your priority

[Mac76]

I'd be shocked if we went for Gyokeres, he doesn't fit the type of player we have been going for at all (he's theoretically reaching/at his peak, and there would be a low chance of selling on value)



That sounds similar to the issue at Arsenal, where a good proportion of the fans think we should make a hire for the 'here and now' and bugger the resale value, on the basis that the added success/money that brings would more than counteract lower resale revenue

As you've probably seen, I gave Liverpool more credit than most on here for what they achieved last season and think they were underrated, but equally you do need to beef things up to see if you can retain the title and regain the CL.

So if I'm Liverpool I'm Gyokeres all the way

[KSE Comedy Club]

I see him as Jorginho’s replacement really. An older head with a bit of leadership and experience.

Zubimendi is the Partey replacement.

Can we please get on with the striker search now.

Exactly this.

He is an experienced prem player at least and I think most Brentford players are fairly decent tbh.

I'm glad we have been decisive at replacing Partey with a fairly solid & cheap option, meaning we can carry on with our 'set the prem alight' sigings that we need in attack

[KSE Comedy Club]

Pretty speechless TBH.

It seems when their is a pretty cheap deal for a player no one is after we are then able to work at breathtaking pace.

As for the player, it all about the physicality like you pointed out. Good in the air and ok passer, a pretty safe squad player.

Do I think the £10m we are spending to acquire him and the 4 year contract in wages makes more sense than keeping Partey 2-3 years or going after someone younger....hell no!

It really is funny how this summer has panned out so far... Liverpool inadvertently won the league and are now making a conscious effort to defend their title by going the extra mile and bringing in players like Wirtz and chasing an Isak, basically going haywire and far above everyone's expectations (like Fergie use to do).....while we, who everyone expected to win it last year are signing Norgaards, Kepas and Zubis.....you really couldn't make this shit up.

I'm not entirely unconvinced that Partey is better than Zubimendi tbh.

Most analysis I've heard, from people that actually watch La Liga and know what he is capable of, suggest he is a very good DM.

I'm kind of glad we have parted ways with Partey tbh, we only got one good full season out of him so I don't think he was worth another 2-3 years on higher wages.
Then there is that lingering personal issue he has....... good to cut ties IMO.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think it was sensible to offer Partey an extension given the season he had with us, but I suspect we weren’t going to be able to guarantee him first team football and that I think as much as anything influenced his decision (also quite likely length of contract as well).
My only objection to Norgaard as a signing is that we clearly didn’t need a defensive midfielder as we had cover

[Marc Overmars]

We had Partey for 5 years and didn’t win anything with him and prior to this season he wasn’t exactly reliable in terms of fitness either. He is a very good player on his day but I feel like his time here came to its natural conclusion. We aren’t going to offer big contracts to players into their 30’s and I’m sure he would have been seeking something significant because it’s probably his last contract at the top level.

Of course there is a lot of pressure on Zubimendi to hit the ground running but I guess we’ve just got to have some faith that we haven’t signed some lightweight dud and rather signed Rodri MKII.

[Mac76]

I'm not entirely unconvinced that Partey is better than Zubimendi tbh.

Most analysis I've heard, from people that actually watch La Liga and know what he is capable of, suggest he is a very good DM.

I'm kind of glad we have parted ways with Partey tbh, we only got one good full season out of him so I don't think he was worth another 2-3 years on higher wages.
Then there is that lingering personal issue he has....... good to cut ties IMO.

I think it's sensible to offload Partey for footbalilng reasons, because while he was good last season there's nothing to say his injury problems wouldn't arise again and that would make him another Tomi/Jesus - we've enough crocks already

I like the look of Zubi, he doesn't seem as injury-prone and it would be good to freshen things up

As for 'other issues' with Partey, nothing has been proven in a court of law and he remains a free citizen, which means it's not Arsenal's problem

It's worth noting Partey himself doesn't seem keen to leave the country, you'd think he would if he thought he was in real jeopardy (and yes I know there are international agreements over such matters but still) - also he's been getting regular chants from opposition fans which equally doesn't seem to bother him

All of that said, I agree it would be best to make a fresh start

[KSE Comedy Club]

or we could call it making your mind up, getting on with your most important transfer business and being ready for the pre-season

Every day we vacillate over Gyokeres/Sesko increases the chances of our getting neither, Gyokeres has burnt his boats at his club and if he starts giving up on Arsenal he'll I'm sure see Liverpool as a suitable alternative

If he does then Berta's game-playing will backfire as RB will be able to name their price and we'll either have to pay it or at best get Watkins (not a disaster IMO but not the ideal either)

If we end up with Watkins then 3rd place beckons this season (if we are lucky).

That would be a striker to help finish in the top 4.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I'd be shocked if we went for Gyokeres, he doesn't fit the type of player we have been going for at all (he's theoretically reaching/at his peak, and there would be a low chance of selling on value)

As much as I'd love Isak I can't see how that happens either. We probably could afford him but I can't see why Newcastle would sell and I also can't see us getting two marquee signings at once. We will be in for a forward but I think it will be someone who can play across the front line and no older than 25.

I heard on Talksport today that Harvey Elliot might end up being sold this summer so that he can progress in his career - is that true in LFC circles?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Dunno. Why is there a mid table club you think he might suit?

[Mac76]

If we end up with Watkins then 3rd place beckons this season (if we are lucky).

That would be a striker to help finish in the top 4.

I dunno, let's say he gets 20 goals, if he gets them in games where it turns a draw into a win it's a good return and if others contribute more goals too (which they need to, especially Ode) it could mean we really compete again

[KSE Comedy Club]

I dunno, let's say he gets 20 goals, if he gets them in games where it turns a draw into a win it's a good return and if others contribute more goals too (which they need to, especially Ode) it could mean we really compete again

Yes and that would be great, but he's 30 come December and I can't see him massively improving from this point onward.
I would rather we bought someone with more of their twenties available to us.

[dazthegooner]

Lewis-Skelly has finally signed a long term contract.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Lewis-Skelly has finally signed a long term contract.

Well that’s good, but I think it’s just a formality. Was always going to sign a contract with us

Need Saliba to sign on now

[Mac76]

Yes and that would be great, but he's 30 come December and I can't see him massively improving from this point onward.
I would rather we bought someone with more of their twenties available to us.

sure, he's no-one's first choice, but it comes back to the 'here and now' argument, if he got us over the line in the PL or CL next season no-one would care less about about his age etc

[HCZ_Reborn]

It then comes down to the question, does anyone think we can win the title with Arteta as coach?

If yes, you’d have to say why not Watkins…for the here and now, I didn’t realise he’d score 75 league goals for Villa since 2020 (15 a season on average which is better than anything we’ve had for a while) and you’d think that he’d be able to replicate that with us or even better

However, if you think we are marking time under Arteta and really we need the one more failure to push him out the door, the attention should be on buying players with the future in mind

[Mac76]

Another defender incoming :lol:, Cristhian Mosquera from Valencia, Romano says we're 'in talks'

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

We had Partey for 5 years and didn’t win anything with him and prior to this season he wasn’t exactly reliable in terms of fitness either. He is a very good player on his day but I feel like his time here came to its natural conclusion. We aren’t going to offer big contracts to players into their 30’s and I’m sure he would have been seeking something significant because it’s probably his last contract at the top level.

Of course there is a lot of pressure on Zubimendi to hit the ground running but I guess we’ve just got to have some faith that we haven’t signed some lightweight dud and rather signed Rodri MKII.

You could also make the argument that we've not won anything for 5 years with Saka or Odegaard...and TBH that argument is more befitting as Partey is a DM and his main job is to ensure we defend better and lose less, which we have in the past 5 years.

Clearly the burden of "winning things" should be put on the attacking players who can score the goals that actually put you ahead, and to make it clear I'm not blaming them as everyone can see the mix is not right....and we all know who is in charge of that.

I'm gradually making my peace with his loss. IMO he's been the most natural technical player we have at the club and on his day, there is no one I prefer watching (and that includes Saka).

But like you said earlier, we need to get on with sorting out our attack and it still seems Arteta and the club are still treating this matter with extreme levity, while announcing defensive signing after defensive signing.