Summer Transfers 2025 Missed Opportunities and Regrets

[dazthegooner]

I thought we had Newcastle on Sunday....or is that too early :shrug:

Think he's having a mdedical in London today before flying off tomorrow think our game is in the early hours Sunday morning (UK time) so probably. :unsure:

[Mac76]

Nketiah’s big shoes to fill. :bow:

:lol:

[Mac76]

Think he's having a mdedical in London today before flying off tomorrow think our game is in the early hours Sunday morning (UK time) so probably. :unsure:

I think it would be too soon for him to play Newcastle, and that's if he goes out there at all - it's a long journey and don't forget the guy's got to settle into London etc

I really don't fancy his first game being versus Spuds, they will go all out to injure him if they can

we shouldn't even be playing those ****s during pre=season, stupid idea :sulk:

[Mac76]

Martinelli lacks chemistry with those around him. He’s never had a left back who’ll overlap nor has had a ball playing left sided CM. So the end result is the head down and run player we’ve got now. I would be sad to see him sold but I just don’t think he’s going to explode into the player we thought he could have been. I think one more tepid season from him and he’ll be a prime candidate to cash in on next summer.

The only times I got angry at Gabriel (Maghalaes) last season was seeing him cconstantly ignore our left hand side and in particular Martinelli - so I blame other players for not giving Martinelli more opportunities, which in turn probably makes him overkeen to do something when he gets the ball, instead of keeping a cool head.

If they can get distribution on that side sorted out, I still think there's a chance he could push on, plus he's one of our very few players with genuine pace and I think you need players with that in any side

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think it would be too soon for him to play Newcastle, and that's if he goes out there at all - it's a long journey and don't forget the guy's got to settle into London etc

I really don't fancy his first game being versus Spuds, they will go all out to injure him if they can

we shouldn't even be playing those ****s during pre=season, stupid idea :sulk:

Yup, quite a stupid idea to play a "friendly" with the Spuds.... if I was at the helm, I'd sack someone for even suggesting it.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

If we smash them though, great idea.

[Letters]

If we smash them though, great idea.

:lol: Indeed.

Jokingly said to a mate (who is in Hong Kong) that we should go.
He said he did actually look at getting tickets and it was all sold out pretty much immediately. He was only offered fan park tickets outside the ground or VIP tickets for megabucks.

So I guess it is working as intended, which is obviously as a money making and profile/fanbase building exercise.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Madueke cut his holiday short and has joined the team early.... whoever is advising this youngman is doing a pretty good job.

Edit: It should be "will be joining the team"...I saw an old video and misread he was already with the team.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Madueke cut his holiday short and has joined the team early.... whoever is advising this youngman is doing a pretty good job.

Hopefully he doesn’t need an advisor to tell him that it never hurts to appear enthusiastic and eager in any job

[Mac76]

Madueke cut his holiday short and has joined the team early.... whoever is advising this youngman is doing a pretty good job.

Hmm, personally I think it's bad advice to skip a holiday and a good rest ahead of the season, if not his advisers then certainly Arsenal should know better

[McNamara That Ghost...]

To be honest, he didn't play all that much in America.

[Mac76]

Ok, fair enough I didn't know that

[Mac76]

Apparently Jesus might be going to Flamemgo on loan, with them paying half his wages

Good move IMO, he's pretty much useless and it seems to reinforce the idea we'll go for Eze :good:

[HCZ_Reborn]

He’s not likely to be back before December whether he stays with us or not

[McNamara That Ghost...]

The season ender in Brazil is in December, I'm thinking this makes more sense as a January sale.

[Mac76]

Good news, Trossard staying apparently

Bad news - so is Zin :ilt:

https://www.footballtransfers.com/en/transfer-news/tag/exclusive-newsnow/exclusive-arsenal-make-leandro-trossard-and-oleksandr-zinchenko-transfer-u-turns

That makes zero sense, he's shite but we could get some kind of decent price for him if we sold now, surely we need to prune the squad a bit and he's completely surplus to requirements

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ornstein says Nelson is off to Fulham, again.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ornstein says Nelson is off to Fulham, again.

Either permanent move or loan with obligation to buy

[Mac76]

Ornstein says Nelson is off to Fulham, again.

That's good he's quite popular there I think and should get good game time

[McNamara That Ghost...]

https://x.com/Arsenal/status/1949167882543223210

[Marc Overmars]

It’s finally done. :faint:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

The mad bastards actually went and got a striker.

[Marc Overmars]

The scenes when Havertz starts up front first game of the season.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The mad bastards actually went and got a striker.
:woohoo:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The scenes when Havertz starts up front first game of the season.

:threaten:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

The scenes when Havertz starts up front first game of the season.

Havertz's back up. :bow:

[Letters]

The mad bastards actually went and got a striker.

:lol:

Crazy idea.

Actually pretty content with this summer’s dealings

[Mac76]

The scenes when Havertz starts up front first game of the season.

:lol:

Really excited about this signing, am going to the Villareal game so hopefully see him bang in a few

[HCZ_Reborn]

Nothing I can say about this signing that I haven’t said already. The only way I can mitigate it in my mind is that a) all in all it doesn’t appear to be that expensive b) there wasn’t that many strikers to choose from, the position has seemingly gone out of fashion.

I can only hope now that we sign an attacking midfielder, because we will need it (and to be fair on Gyokeres we would have needed it whoever we signed)

[Marc Overmars]

Romano has reiterated that Eze is keen on moving to us but nothing has been worked out with Palace yet. Also said that outgoings are a priority now.

[dostoy]

What outgoings though ?

Surely Zinchenko, Reiss Nelson and Sambi-Lokonga will leave.

Trossard will surely go but only if they sign Eze.

Is there anyone else ?

[Mac76]

What outgoings though ?

Surely Zinchenko, Reiss Nelson and Sambi-Lokonga will leave.

Trossard will surely go but only if they sign Eze.

Is there anyone else ?

unfortunately i saw an article saying Arteta wants Zin to stay which is really annoying (and also Trossard which is fine)

Nelson will go, and probably Lokonga, there's still mutterings about Kiwior but I hope we keep him, in terms of what he brings to the squad he's worth a thousand Zinchenkos

We do need to shift Lokonga but not sure there's many takers but can hopefully loan him again

there's also Vieira but again no sign of many takers

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

unfortunately i saw an article saying Arteta wants Zin to stay which is really annoying (and also Trossard which is fine)

Nelson will go, and probably Lokonga, there's still mutterings about Kiwior but I hope we keep him, in terms of what he brings to the squad he's worth a thousand Zinchenkos

We do need to shift Lokonga but not sure there's many takers but can hopefully loan him again

there's also Vieira but again no sign of many takers

We've got to keep Kiwior for now because we definitely can't rely on Calafiori who has just got injured again.

I feel like there is something they are not telling us about this kid (Cali) as it's almost like he's made of glass yet plays like a beast with his forceful play. Quite a shame.

[Mac76]

We've got to keep Kiwior for now because we definitely can't rely on Calafiori who has just got injured again.

I feel like there is something they are not telling us about this kid (Cali) as it's almost like he's made of glass yet plays like a beast with his forceful play. Quite a shame.

A really poor buy all told, especially as he seemed to be signed to play at LB yet like Zin (who absolutely MUST be sold) he clearly can't play there, he can play CB but ultimately he's so injury-prone it's a waste of time even thinking about it

last summer's window really must be one our worst in history, Merino's only turned out to be useful by chance and Cala's a total fail - and of course there's the attacking players we didn't buy...

[KSE Comedy Club]

unfortunately i saw an article saying Arteta wants Zin to stay which is really annoying (and also Trossard which is fine)

Nelson will go, and probably Lokonga, there's still mutterings about Kiwior but I hope we keep him, in terms of what he brings to the squad he's worth a thousand Zinchenkos

We do need to shift Lokonga but not sure there's many takers but can hopefully loan him again

there's also Vieira but again no sign of many takers

I saw a tweet about that too.

It said that Zinchenko wants to leave but Arteta has convinced him to stay.

Which not only makes me 'Hulk angry' but is also absolutely fucking baffling.

[KSE Comedy Club]

What outgoings though ?

Surely Zinchenko, Reiss Nelson and Sambi-Lokonga will leave.

Trossard will surely go but only if they sign Eze.

Is there anyone else ?

On that note, Jesus looks to be off as well.

3 clubs interested in him but it will be a loan with option to buy & we pay 50% of his wages.

Shit deal all in, it's very irritating that we keep having these players that we can't sell on without having to loan them out first.

[Chippy]

We've got to keep Kiwior for now because we definitely can't rely on Calafiori who has just got injured again.

I feel like there is something they are not telling us about this kid (Cali) as it's almost like he's made of glass yet plays like a beast with his forceful play. Quite a shame.

Calafiori MUST be shipped out asap. He is another Tommy, sadly.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Either permanent move or loan with obligation to buy

We are dogshit when it comes to getting rid of players.


It's actually embarrassing.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Calafiori MUST be shipped out asap. He is another Tommy, sadly.

He won't be though.

Arteta has already convinced Zinshitshow to stay as a back up player, presumably to both him and MLS.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I saw a tweet about that too.

It said that Zinchenko wants to leave but Arteta has convinced him to stay.

Which not only makes me 'Hulk angry' but is also absolutely fucking baffling.

I’m highly skeptical of such articles

The likelihood is, with Jesus as with Zinchenko is that their wages make it incredibly difficult to get rid of them

That was the main folly of signing those two. I think in many ways it can be argued that signing both from a club of multiple league winners brought a mentality to the team (no matter what their individual shortcomings were) that helped us go from 5th to 2nd in one season

Zinchenko I also think made Martinelli a better player

[IBK]

So an update on all things Madueke:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6513121/2025/07/24/arsenal-noni-madueke-homegrown-players/

So apparently he does qualify as homegrown in the EPL but won't in the CL.

@IBK

Also, though it's not been confirmed yet, it seems we actually signed him on the same salary he was at Chelsea i.e. 50k a week, which really surprises me.

Firstly it makes a little more sense now why our suits rushed the deal...in the long run it's actually not that expensive seeing he's on a 1/3 of the salary of Martinelli and even cheaper than Trossard! So it seems you had a point afterall on us not having enough info on the club's valuation.

Secondly, though I've been one of his hardest critics and firmly in the camp of "WTF did we do this deal" , I'm taken aback by him personally forsaking his final match (and medal) at the CWC and actively choosing to join us seeing as I seriously doubt now that Chelsea pushed him out, seeing as his wages represent a pittance to them.

Anyway, let's see what he does on the pitch, but I'm officially wiping the slate clean thanks to this info... that's of course until they reveal the Chav whose been making the "I know what you did last summer" calls and hoarding the dirty pics of Arteta and Kronke jnr at that slumber party ;)

:good: Classy post mate.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ramsdale looking like he’s going to Newcastle.

[Letters]

Ramsdale looking like he’s going to Newcastle.

Will have a fiver on Newcastle getting relegated then.

[dazthegooner]

Why would he go there and be 2nd choice goalkeeper behind Pope?

[Mac76]

Why would he go there and be 2nd choice goalkeeper behind Pope?

Maybe they gauranteed him cup games or something, even if used occasionally he'd probably prefer PL to Championship and who can blame him

[Mac76]

I saw a tweet about that too.

It said that Zinchenko wants to leave but Arteta has convinced him to stay.

Which not only makes me 'Hulk angry' but is also absolutely fucking baffling.

I guess the consolation is that Arteta often bullshits players about giving them minutes and then doesn't, so we have to hope that's the case with Zin

[HCZ_Reborn]

Dortmund sniffing around Trossard

West Ham doing similar for Vieira

[Marc Overmars]

Dortmund sniffing around Trossard

West Ham doing similar for Vieira

2 exits that could fund Eze.

Make it happen please.

[Mac76]

I'd much rather sell Zin, who's a total waste of space, instead of weakening the attack by losing Trossard, this summer's supposed to be about deepening forward options

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Trossard doesn't even strike me as a typical Dortmund signing.

As for Vieira, I almost forgot that we still have him at this club...really strange and a bit pathetic seeing as he hasn't even featured in any of the friendlies at this stage.

Berta really needs to work his magic and end this sorry chapter of an undeniably talented player but clearly a terrible fit for this coach.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Trossard doesn't even strike me as a typical Dortmund signing.

As for Vieira, I almost forgot that we still have him at this club...really strange and a bit pathetic seeing as he hasn't even featured in any of the friendlies at this stage.

Berta really needs to work his magic and end this sorry chapter of an undeniably talented player but clearly a terrible fit for this coach.

Is there a typical Dortmund signing? I like Trossard but apart from in spells he didn’t produce last season. He’s also shown no interest in extending his contract, and at 30 he’s not likely to get any better and I think it’s time to maybe be ruthless and get what we can get for him now.

I hate to say it but I just don’t think Vieira is that good. Players who aren’t very tall usually have a good low centre of gravity but he seems to lack that. He did ok on loan back at Porto but certainly not setting the world alight. If West Ham offer 20 million for him, I say we snap their hand off

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

So Sky are reporting that Palace have said to us that Eze's release clause expires before the beginning of the season and that we need to pay £35m upfront to make the deal happen.

They've also made it "crystal" clear they won't accept anything below the release clause, which by now , after the Forest case, we should all understand that no English club is bound to the "terms" of a release clause, apparently.

Looking at it, It does seem that getting this deal through may be more financially tasking than the Gyokores deal.... especially as it seems we are struggling to move any of our deadwood.

IMO, if we manage to see this through, we'll challenge for the title, even if we get our usual dose of injuries.... so in short, I really do pray we make it happen.

[Marc Overmars]

I think the Eze move could happen but it’s really dependent on how quickly we can move the deadwood on. It is rather annoying that we are so crap at getting decent value for players we sell.

[Chippy]

I think the Eze move could happen but it’s really dependent on how quickly we can move the deadwood on. It is rather annoying that we are so crap at getting decent value for players we sell.

Could we offer players in return for Eze? £35m + Trossard and Vieri?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Could we offer players in return for Eze? £35m + Trossard and Vieri?

Not a bad idea :good:

Though I'd tweak it and offer a full swap for Martinelli instead.

I'm pretty sure if you add Trossard and Vieira's wages, it still doesn't exceed what we're paying Martinelli alone, and like I keep pointing out he's just stagnating and losing value day by day.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Not a bad idea :good:

Though I'd tweak it and offer a full swap for Martinelli instead.

I'm pretty sure if you add Trossard and Vieira's wages, it still doesn't exceed what we're paying Martinelli alone, and like I keep pointing out he's just stagnating and losing value day by day.

There’s about as much chance of Martinelli agreeing to go to Palace as there is of Letters winning an Olympic gold in the High jump

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Well with Bayern getting Diaz, there is probably no hope of unloading him to a "preferred" club.

In short, I can't see anyway we'll generate good money off sales this summer.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t want to unload him at all, I think if we sign Eze the two offer very different things, Martinelli might have to prove himself as an impact sub and actually I think would be very good in transition play if we have established a lead because of his raw pace

[Mac76]

I think the Eze move could happen but it’s really dependent on how quickly we can move the deadwood on. It is rather annoying that we are so crap at getting decent value for players we sell.

Well it doesn't help that Arteta is reportedly asking crap like Zin to stay instead of doing his best to offload them, especially when there's actually interest apparently

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6510412/2025/07/30/arsenal-transfers-psr-sales/?campaign=14405240&source=athletic_targeted_email&userId=12872157

A good read on our spending though it doesn't ultimately answer how much is available.

Also it seems Vieira is still on holiday which surprises me seeing as Porto went out pretty early in the CWC.....I mean if Madueke (who played until the later stages) can join up with the tour, why can't he?

[Marc Overmars]

United are making a move for Sesko. :lol:

Sesko v Gyokeres first game of the season could be interesting. The internet warrior derby. :bow:

[dazthegooner]

Well United beat Bournemouth 4-1 without there new signing so will be now installed as favorites to win the quaduaple by all the usual pundits :lol:

[IBK]

So Sky are reporting that Palace have said to us that Eze's release clause expires before the beginning of the season and that we need to pay £35m upfront to make the deal happen.

They've also made it "crystal" clear they won't accept anything below the release clause, which by now , after the Forest case, we should all understand that no English club is bound to the "terms" of a release clause, apparently.

Looking at it, It does seem that getting this deal through may be more financially tasking than the Gyokores deal.... especially as it seems we are struggling to move any of our deadwood.

IMO, if we manage to see this through, we'll challenge for the title, even if we get our usual dose of injuries.... so in short, I really do pray we make it happen.

Read on some random site today that we are looking at Leicester City playmaker Bilal El Khannouss as a cheaper alternative to Eze...

[Mac76]

Read on some random site today that we are looking at Leicester City playmaker Bilal El Khannouss as a cheaper alternative to Eze...

we shouldn't be looking at 'cheaper' players we should be making sure we offload Zin, Nelson, Viera, Lokonga etc etc - if even we give one or two of them away it means we're not paying their wages ffs

[IBK]

we shouldn't be looking at 'cheaper' players we should be making sure we offload Zin, Nelson, Viera, Lokonga etc etc - if even we give one or two of them away it means we're not paying their wages ffs

I agree that we should do what is needed to buy Eze...but I can't help but think that there's a ring of truth about us looking at a cheaper and/or younger alternative. We've burnt some cash on Nwaneri and I wonder whether the club sees less importance in the central playmaker position as a result?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

we shouldn't be looking at 'cheaper' players we should be making sure we offload Zin, Nelson, Viera, Lokonga etc etc - if even we give one or two of them away it means we're not paying their wages ffs

Lokonga's agent has got to be some sort of shaman or something .....I mean to think this guy has been on a 100k a week to do ef all for almost 3 years or so.....wow.

[Mac76]

We should also mention Jesus as a possible (and very welcome IMO) sale possibility - apparently we are open to selling him and he may have takers, which would be a useless high earner off the books :good:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Liverpool have offered 110million plus add ons for Isak

Newcastle have told Liverpool to fuck off

More to follow (well probably)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

We really need to follow up on this Eze interest and do whatever is needed to ensure we have goals coming from all angles, especially by having players who can contribute directly to scoring them and not those who excel in contributing to blocked shot stats.

Isak is going to move to Liverpool this season, the sooner we are prepared for this, the better.

[HCZ_Reborn]

We really need to follow up on this Eze interest and do whatever is needed to ensure we have goals coming from all angles, especially by having players who can contribute directly to scoring them and not those who excel in contributing to blocked shot stats.

Isak is going to move to Liverpool this season, the sooner we are prepared for this, the better.

Liverpool don’t particularly worry me they are incredibly top heavy already and for me it seems a silly strategy to sell Luiz Diaz to raise money for a player who has injury question marks. I like Isak very good player but not for the money being asked for.

[Mac76]

We really need to follow up on this Eze interest and do whatever is needed to ensure we have goals coming from all angles, especially by having players who can contribute directly to scoring them and not those who excel in contributing to blocked shot stats.

Isak is going to move to Liverpool this season, the sooner we are prepared for this, the better.

Yeah I think Isak will go to Liverpool, though for much more than £110m, maybe £130-£140m.

Either way I agree that Eze has gone from 'nice to have' to essential if this is to be a genuinely game-changing summer, yes we have Gyokeres but everyone else is tooling up also.

Ideally we'd have changed manager too but you can't have everything :lol:, at least Arteta's mind seems to have been focussed more on attack by knowing he's probably just got this one more season before serious questions are asked

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Liverpool don’t particularly worry me they are incredibly top heavy already and for me it seems a silly strategy to sell Luiz Diaz to raise money for a player who has injury question marks. I like Isak very good player but not for the money being asked for.

You also dismissed them similarly last year around this period and obviously they ended up winning the league earlier and by a bigger margin than Citeh had done for the past 3 seasons prior.

Though having Ekitike and Isak does seem a bit like overkill, the fact remains they won the league comfortably last year with easily one of the worst strikers in the whole division and are now replacing him for someone who everyone regards as one of the best in the world ATM.

Though I still think their weakness is their defending, at this rate they are likely to continue to outscore opponents which as we found out last season trumps clean sheets and endless possession football that doesn't lead to goals.

I'm not saying they are going to walk the league, but I think a stronger and more rational arguement can be made for them winning it rather than us, especially if we can't sort out something as basic as dealing with low blocks that 80% of teams in this division are going to employ against us.

[Mac76]

You also dismissed them similarly last year around this period and obviously they ended up winning the league earlier and by a bigger margin than Citeh had done for the past 3 seasons prior.


:good: Indeed, I was going to point out the same thing but couldn't bothered with the inevitable comeback ...

[HCZ_Reborn]

You also dismissed them similarly last year around this period and obviously they ended up winning the league earlier and by a bigger margin than Citeh had done for the past 3 seasons prior.

Though having Ekitike and Isak does seem a bit like overkill, the fact remains they won the league comfortably last year with easily one of the worst strikers in the whole division and are now replacing him for someone who everyone regards as one of the best in the world ATM.

Though I still think their weakness is their defending, at this rate they are likely to continue to outscore opponents which as we found out last season trumps clean sheets and endless possession football that doesn't lead to goals.

I'm not saying they are going to walk the league, but I think a stronger and more rational arguement can be made for them winning it rather than us, especially if we can't sort out something as basic as dealing with low blocks that 80% of teams in this division are going to employ against us.

They won the league with 84 points. Does that not make you think for a second that this is less of a reflection of them and not how poor we were and how poor City were without Rodri.

This argument that Liverpool were this great unstoppable side is for the birds, we won 20 games last season. I said if we did our part that Liverpool would drop enough points for us to overhaul them…they did drop that many points, we didn’t do ours. They had 25 wins last season, that’s fewer than we got not just last season but the season before as well. They also conceded a fuck load of goals and now? They’ve made their attack more unbalanced.



Do I think Liverpool can do better than last season? If they finish above us it’s because as like last season we have neglected to address the issue with scoring against low blocks. What Liverpool do or don’t do doesn’t factor into my thinking. People screamed blue murder when I compared their league title to that of Leicester City but it is in so far that it was less about what the winning team managed and the poor season had by the usual contenders

City have Rodri back, they will be the team we have to focus on in my view.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Back to our reality, we top the table for being the worst regarding net spend at €216m and are the worst among our rivals (except Villa who have a zero net spend) when it comes to generating income on our players at a paltry €8m...

At this point we might need to consider cancelling more contracts or giving out some players for free like Lokonga to reduce the stress on the wage bill (a disturbingly reoccurring theme since Arteta became manager).

https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1

[HCZ_Reborn]

So to put it succinctly, it doesn’t matter how many strikers they add unless they get their defence sorted

And it doesn’t matter what they do, it matters what we do. If we don’t sort out our problem with the deep block, we will be lucky to get the points we got last season given our defence looks shit and therefore even more so it won’t matter what Liverpool do.

But balanced teams win the premier league. We aren’t balanced, neither are Liverpool. City are

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/13405028/gianluigi-donnarumma-transfer-man-utd-interested-in-paris-st-germain-goalkeeper-with-uncertainty-over-andre-onana-future

What do you guys think, do we put in a cheeky bid and dump our midget?

I still believe his performance was one of the main reasons we couldn't get past PSG and I seriously rate him, though I think he let a few people down with the way he performed in the CWC.

I also believe he'd be a big upgrade on Raya, though his wages would probably be debilitating......ah, one can dream, no

[Mac76]

Back to our reality, we top the table for being the worst regarding net spend at €216m and are the worst among our rivals (except Villa who have a zero net spend) when it comes to generating income on our players at a paltry €8m...

At this point we might need to consider cancelling more contracts or giving out some players for free like Lokonga to reduce the stress on the wage bill (a disturbingly reoccurring theme since Arteta became manager).

https://www.transfermarkt.com/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1

It's embarrasing that the Ox, at £32m, remains our biggest sale and that was in 2017

That would be about £42m now apparently

I thnk key to this is Arteta's reluctance to move players on - instead he BS's them that they will get minutes and keeps them, taking up space in the squad and adding to the wage bill - and then doesn't use them anyway...


ESR saw through it eventually., unfortunately Arteta's now doing the same with Zin who's probably too dumb to go to where he will get game time (at least I hope he gets no game time with us anyway)

[Letters]

They won the league with 84 points.
Partly because they won it so early they stopped bothering.
If anyone had been pushing them I’m pretty sure they’d have got more.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Partly because they won it so early they stopped bothering.
If anyone had been pushing them I’m pretty sure they’d have got more.

You think so?

I think if they’d actually been pushed they’d have folded like a deck chair


With City in the two previous seasons we all knew when we lost to Villa that the title was over, because City have an irrepressible quality (yes absolutely they’ve bought that). But it’s not a quality Liverpool have (and it’s not a dig at Liverpool we sure as fuck don’t have it either)

They conceded 41 goals last season, not because they took their foot off the pedal but because their best defender is 34. Is that going to be any better this season with replacing Alexander Arnold and Robertson.

The Liverpool side that won five years ago, now that was an irrepressible team. Yet the following season they only made top four on the last day of the season


Now I’m not saying that Liverpool will struggle to make top four, nor even completely dismissing them for the title.


But I don’t think Isak is going to make them miles better, most likely will Salah dropping off and the tragedy that befell Jota and selling Diaz and most likely selling Nunez he replaces that goal output

84 points is what they were capable of and especially with the big change up in their side, it’s not controversial to say that I think that’s their ceiling. I think City are more than capable of bettering that, after yesterday I’m less sure we are

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/13405028/gianluigi-donnarumma-transfer-man-utd-interested-in-paris-st-germain-goalkeeper-with-uncertainty-over-andre-onana-future

What do you guys think, do we put in a cheeky bid and dump our midget?

I still believe his performance was one of the main reasons we couldn't get past PSG and I seriously rate him, though I think he let a few people down with the way he performed in the CWC.

I also believe he'd be a big upgrade on Raya, though his wages would probably be debilitating......ah, one can dream, no

I thought the main reason was we scored 1 goal by way of consolation over two legs

Raya didn’t cover himself in glory especially not in the second leg, but the main ptonl
Was what we lacked not what we had on the pitch. I think his height is mainly a problem when he comes rushing out of his goal, silly fucking behaviour

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It was kind of a miracle that we even reached the semis without having a proper striker and definitely that more than anything was to blame for holding us back....but there was a particular leg of our game where Donaruma made like 3 -4 outstanding saves IIRC.

Also I'm not blaming Raya either for our exit as I don't think he did much wrong IIRC, though I do remember wishing we could swap keepers though :lol:

Anyway, its definitely not in the cards for us ( changing keepers) and I also hope he doesn't get recruited by Man U (or any other EPL team) as he's really really good on his day....reminds me of Courtois in his younger years when he was at his best

[WMUG]

Saka doesn't sky it over an open net and we've got 13 minutes to find an equaliser, even with everything else.

:(

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It's embarrasing that the Ox, at £32m, remains our biggest sale and that was in 2017

That would be about £42m now apparently

I thnk key to this is Arteta's reluctance to move players on - instead he BS's them that they will get minutes and keeps them, taking up space in the squad and adding to the wage bill - and then doesn't use them anyway...


ESR saw through it eventually., unfortunately Arteta's now doing the same with Zin who's probably too dumb to go to where he will get game time (at least I hope he gets no game time with us anyway)

The part in bold is a huge indictment and I've said it several times, especially as this occurred 8 years ago, and even then that transfer price was nothing special.

Anyway news like this below ensures we'll keep repeating the unhealthy cycle and that we remain reticent to healthy change.

https://youtu.be/aI992hkl6Q8?si=SBlpT7_U2sl9r6Sz

[Letters]

You think so?
Well, yeah. They had 82 points with 4 games to go - I'm going to assume that's when they wrapped up the title because after that they got the flip flips out and stopped bothering. They didn't win another game, losing 2. To suggest that had they needed to they wouldn't have got more than 2 points out of 12 is ludicrous.


I think if they’d actually been pushed they’d have folded like a deck chair
You also thought they wouldn't last the pace and weren't much of a threat last season.


84 points is what they were capable of
That's bullshit for the reason I've given above.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well, yeah. They had 82 points with 4 games to go - I'm going to assume that's when they wrapped up the title because after that they got the flip flips out and stopped bothering. They didn't win another game, losing 2. To suggest that had they needed to they wouldn't have got more than 2 points out of 12 is ludicrous.


You also thought they wouldn't last the pace and weren't much of a threat last season.


That's bullshit for the reason I've given above.

Why is it ludicrous…those were hard games for them and they were running on empty. This is a side that throughout the season never won more than four games in a row, hardly a relentless winning machine

You calling something bullshit is not a reason, it’s barely an opinion, mine is that they would have lost those games to Brighton and Chelsea anyway. I don’t think they’d have beaten us if they hadn’t won the title already either and as for Palace this is a team that they struggle with at Anfield (a defeat and a draw in the previous two games)

They were dropping points and struggling in games even before they got to the title. Losing to Fulham, needing a goal about ten minutes before the end and a favourable VAR call to beat Leicester

The team that lost in the final of the league cup to Newcastle, got knocked out of the fa cup by Plymouth and also lost to the same PSG team that did for us.

They had good momentum with more favourable fixtures in the first half of the season and they started to drop off in 2025 but no one was in a position to overhaul them.

As I say 84 points reflects accurately what that team was capable of. Plenty of teams win the title yet still are able to win remaining fixtures….

[HCZ_Reborn]

As I say Liverpool are not our concern, and if Rodri is not the same player he was before injury it’s possible that neither will City be. If City don’t come back strongly this season, the team we will have to strongly overcome to win is Arsenal. The team will need to show the character to break through the negative conditioning of Arteta, need to actually start to defend with pride again and players will have to take it upon themselves to be more direct if we do not acquire a creative player.
This is the same as last season, even with injuries, even with appalling referee decisions if we had played to our potential it’s who would have been champions. We know what we are capable of, we are a side that can win 16 out of 18 league games…something I don’t think this Liverpool side would be capable of without defensive recruitment

[HCZ_Reborn]

Plus no idea if Liverpool will actually sign Isak, they’ve claimed at the moment that they don’t know if they will go in for him again. This is almost certainly mind games to get Newcastle to lower their price by relying on the player to pressure them to sell. The type of thing Liverpool fans would go bananas at judging at the reaction to Alexander-Arnold. It’s also the type of thing that if we did it, a certain forum user on here would be lambasting us for (though I suspect it’s only a shit tactic when we do it :lol:)

[Letters]

Why is it ludicrous…
Already explained.


You calling something bullshit is not a reason, it’s barely an opinion, mine is that they would have lost those games to Brighton and Chelsea anyway. I don’t think they’d have beaten us if they hadn’t won the title already either and as for Palace this is a team that they struggle with at Anfield (a defeat and a draw in the previous two games)
Man, this is desperate stuff.
They'd lost 2 league games all season before they wrapped up the title, and you think they'd have lost 2 of the remaining 4 had they not already done so? And not won either of the other two. Behave yourself.


They were dropping points and struggling in games even before they got to the title.
They'd won 7 out of the previous 8 games before they wrapped up the title :lol:


They had good momentum with more favourable fixtures in the first half of the season and they started to drop off in 2025 but no one was in a position to overhaul them.
They had a mini wobble at the start of 2025, drawing the first two. After that they went on this run:
W11 D2 L1


As I say 84 points reflects accurately what that team was capable of.
You can keep saying that, it keeps being bullshit. It's hilarious how desperate you are to be right. I didn't think Liverpool would last the distance last season, I was wrong.
You were wrong too. The difference is you keep on trying to find excuses as to why you were right all along.


Plenty of teams win the title yet still are able to win remaining fixtures….
Irrelevant.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Already explained.


Man, this is desperate stuff.
They'd lost 2 league games all season before they wrapped up the title, and you think they'd have lost 2 of the remaining 4 had they not already done so? And not won either of the other two. Behave yourself.


They'd won 7 out of the previous 8 games before they wrapped up the title :lol:


They had a mini wobble at the start of 2025, drawing the first two. After that they went on this run:
W11 D2 L1


You can keep saying that, it keeps being bullshit. It's hilarious how desperate you are to be right. I didn't think Liverpool would last the distance last season, I was wrong.
You were wrong too. The difference is you keep on trying to find excuses as to why you were right all along.


Irrelevant.

Between March and April they lost three games, the PSG game, the Newcastle game and home to Fulham. If you want to selectively edit these games out of existence that’s fine, but it should be pointed out that this is what you’re doing. I’m saying the Chelsea and Brighton games were indicative of the type of games Liverpool were struggling in by this point.

And with the league games they did win, they needed two pels to beat Southampton, struggled to beat both West Ham and Leicester. From March onwards that team was flagging. I don’t argue something because I need to be right, I was clearly wrong that they couldn’t win the title, I argue something strongly because I think I am right.

In November a lot of people concluded that we couldn’t best Liverpool for the title because they were too good, my argument was then that even if they did go on to win the title it would be because we proved incapable of catching them. They dropped 15 points between November and winning the title against Spurs. I’m sorry but if we are talking about the standards set by Liverpool under Klopp or City at their best, there’s no way that would have happened.

And that’s the point, that Liverpool side didn’t reach the standards we set in 2023/2024 let alone the standard of the most previous Liverpool title winning side. They won because we were terrible and City couldn’t cope with the loss of Rodri (something I also predicted would happen but you were dismissive of)

Are they capable of retaining the title, well yes but as I say they don’t concern me.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I wouldn’t mind nothing I’m saying is controversial. It’s just one of football’s ironies. The team that we finished runners up with in 2023/2024 were arguably stronger than the team that won the title in 97/98, just like the Liverpool team that finished runners up in 2009 and 2012 was far superior to the one that finished champions in 2025.

It seems people are enraged because I won’t acknowledge how good this Liverpool team is, I don’t think it is that good. It did what it needed to do last season but I won’t have it demanded to me that it’s capable of so much more because I don’t believe it is, and people need to wind their fucking necks in a bit.

If we play to the level we are capable of, I think we finish above them. That’s something I can’t say about City, I think we could perform to our absolute best and still finish runners up behind them if Rodri is still the player he was before he was injured.

So don’t scream hypotheticals at me for expressing a view that really isn’t that hard to understand. If you don’t agree that this Liverpool side reached their ceiling at 84 points fine, I think it accurately reflects their capabilities and you only have hypotheticals of what you insist must be the case to refute that

[Letters]

Between March and April they lost three games, the PSG game, the Newcastle game and home to Fulham. If you want to selectively edit these games out of existence that’s fine
You are the one cherry picking. I was talking about league form. It's not exactly a revelation that form can vary between competitions.
Spurs literally finished as low as you can without going down last year and won the Europa League, for example.
No-one gives a shit about the League Cup so I don't think one can infer anything much from them losing in that competition. In the CL they lost narrowly to the eventual winners but they beat them in one of the games, which is more than we did - it was very much smash and grab, but they won - and then only lost narrowly on penalties in the end. I'm not editing them out, I was just focusing on league form. The Fulham game is the L1 I mentioned above and yes, that was a result you wouldn't expect but it's very unusual for teams to go through an entire season without any bum notes.

You're just making silly excuses about how they only just won some games. So what? In the seasons Arsenal won titles we've all seen games we've scraped through or won without really deserving to. That's one of the things that makes you champions. What it all adds up to is with 4 games to go their points per game ratio was such that they were on course for 91.6 points. They had the same points after 34 games as The Invincibles.
They did have some tough games in those last 4 but to suggest that had they not already been crowned champions they'd have only got 2 points from those 4 games is just too silly to take seriously.

I wouldn't say that was one of the great title winning sides, and I agree the one horse race was because of our and City's failings but to suggest that 84 points is their ceiling is nonsense given where they were after 34 games.


City couldn’t cope with the loss of Rodri (something I also predicted would happen but you were dismissive of)
Yes, I didn't think City would be as bad as they were last season. Long may it last. But stop pretending you have 20:20 foresight because you got that right. Your predictions on here are mostly hopeless. I'm not claiming mine are any better, but at least I admit it.


Are they capable of retaining the title, well yes but as I say they don’t concern me.
As they didn't last year :good:

[HCZ_Reborn]

You keep insisting this, but you’ve nothing to back it up with

Liverpool haven’t won at Chelsea in five years, they hadn’t beaten us at Anfield the two previous seasons nor Crystal Palace and they failed to win at Brighton the two previous seasons

Where exactly is this assertion that they’d have got more than two points from these fixtures coming from?, the last time Liverpool got a win from any of those fixtures was three years ago.

Frankly it’s your absolutely sense of certainty that they would have got more that is absurd. And in fact I’ll take a leaf out of your book, and refuse to take it seriously.

[Letters]

You keep insisting this, but you’ve nothing to back it up with
:haha:

Yes yes, you were very very right about Liverpool last season. They weren't a threat last year so I'm sure they won't be this either.
Embarrassing.

[HCZ_Reborn]

:haha:

Yes yes, you were very very right about Liverpool last season. They weren't a threat last year so I'm sure they won't be this either.
Embarrassing.

I said I wasn’t worried about Liverpool, is that really so embarrassing. Because if we don’t sort out our problems than they become an academic issue because we won’t be competing for the title anyhow. And if we do sort out our problems I’m confident that we will finish above them. I don’t have that confidence with Man City

I was wrong that Liverpool couldn’t win the title, but I’m not saying they can’t win the title. If we nor City get our act together they will most likely will retain the title. If we and City sort out the problems we had last season, I think they will finish third.

So embarassing of me :shrug:


Like with previous arguments, would it make you feel better if I told you that I rate them highly and think they are capable of doing miles better than last season. It’s not what I feel…but I’m sure as a Christian you are more than used to insincere repentance

[Letters]

would it make you feel better if I told you that I rate them highly and think they are capable of doing miles better than last season.
It would make you look less ridiculous if you stopped peddling the "84 points is their ceiling" bullshit. They had 82 points with 4 games left, it's a points/games ratio which would see them on over 91 points if maintained.
And you're suggesting they'd only have got 2 points from the remaining 4 games because reasons. Everyone on here at the time was acknowledging that they were on the beach after they'd clinched the title, now you are randomly claiming that it was the best they could do. It's just bollocks.

First you said they were flagging towards the end of the season - as I said, they won 7 out of 8 in the run up to them clinching the title. I also gave the stats for the longer run in 2025 after their mini-wobble at the start of the year. Both runs are entirely consistent with a title winning side. You love to go on about how they didn't win more than 4 games in a row. They also never went more than 2 games in a row without winning. They had back to back draws in early December and again in early January, but that's it. And they'd only lost 2 league games before the last 4. So to suggest that having already clinched the title had no affect on their results is just nonsensical.

You say I have "nothing to back it up with" - which is a bit rich considering you said they'd have folded had they been put under pressure, you have nothing to back that up with. I have given a load of stats which demonstrate that their results in the last 4 games were very much an outlier in the season.

I'll ignore the under the belt dig - you're better than that...

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’ll tell you what I will say though.

At this moment in time I’d expect Liverpool to finish above us, but it’s got nothing to do with Liverpool

Even though we are stronger in terms of squad depth, I think we are arguably weaker than last season

A lot of players have gone backwards - Odegaard, Havertz, Martinelli, Saka, Saliba, Raya.

The insistence on playing Lewis Skelly as inverted full back even though he lacks the awareness to play in midfield. That Norgaard even though he’s a squad option looks utterly pathetic, that Zubimendi doesn’t look cut out for the premier league. That we are trying to play a long ball game to combat the low block, but the problem isn’t really the style of play it’s the style of players. I can’t think of a less gifted team technically in my lifetime, it’s a team full of guile, physicality and I’d say mental resilience but no great dribblers or ball passers…and this is demonstrated by the fact that senior players are shown up by a 15 year old academy player.

It’s easy to be wise with hindsight but we should really have spent the money we used on Zubimendi, Mosquera and Norgaard (about 85 million collectively) on a top creative player.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It would make you look less ridiculous if you stopped peddling the "84 points is their ceiling" bullshit. They had 82 points with 4 games left, it's a points/games ratio which would see them on over 91 points if maintained.
And you're suggesting they'd only have got 2 points from the remaining 4 games because reasons. Everyone on here at the time was acknowledging that they were on the beach after they'd clinched the title, now you are randomly claiming that it was the best they could do. It's just bollocks.

First you said they were flagging towards the end of the season - as I said, they won 7 out of 8 in the run up to them clinching the title. I also gave the stats for the longer run in 2025 after their mini-wobble at the start of the year. Both runs are entirely consistent with a title winning side. You love to go on about how they didn't win more than 4 games in a row. They also never went more than 2 games in a row without winning. They had back to back draws in early December and again in early January, but that's it. And they'd only lost 2 league games before the last 4. So to suggest that having already clinched the title had no affect on their results is just nonsensical.

You say I have "nothing to back it up with" - which is a bit rich considering you said they'd have folded had they been put under pressure, you have nothing to back that up with. I have given a load of stats which demonstrate that their results in the last 4 games were very much an outlier in the season.

I'll ignore the under the belt dig - you're better than that...

They dropped 15 points from 24 games (before the last 4 games), if you think a fully at the races City would not have punished that, I really don’t know what to tell you.

They were lagging in March and April, trying to pretend there’s zero overlap between the premier league and other competitions is nonsense. In the autumn and Xmas period when they were dominating in the league they also won their first six Champions League games.

They lost to Fulham around the same time they lost to Newcastle in the league cup final and knocked out of Europe by PSG.
Salah wasn’t getting the goals he had earlier on in the season and therefore they couldn’t just have him knock in a few to get them through games.

I say 84 points is about their ceiling because that Liverpool side was no different in terms of personnel to the one that finished with 82 points the previous season. The performances were largely the same, with two things being different a) Salah wasn’t getting as many goals and B) City and Arsenal were altogether different beasts.

I say it because those four fixtures would have been tricky fixtures for Liverpool at any time of the season, that they just happened to be at the end of the season is neither here nor there. If they had been played in March/April time…whilst neither us or City were in a place to capitalise on it, I think the title race would have still been going in May.


The seven out of eight thing ignores that the teams in that run in they played were relegated Southampton and Leicester (and they struggled to beat both of them) and West Ham and Everton (who they struggled to beat as well).


They did well to get past obstacles like Brentford, Bournemouth, Villa and City (ten points from those four games) but we are talking about four fixtures post title win where they won none of those games in the two previous seasons


Chelsea (A) - D in 2022/2023, D in 2023/2024

Arsenal (H) - D in 2022/2023, D in 2023/2024

Brighton (A) - L in 2022/2023, D in 2023/2024

Palace (H) - D in 2022/2023, L in 2023/2024


And no that comment is not beneath me, because you’re pissing me off because you’re implying I’m arguing dishonestly

[Letters]

you’re pissing me off because you’re implying I’m arguing dishonestly
You're being stubborn, not dishonest. Let's leave the personal digs, shall we?

For 34 games Liverpool had a points per game average of just over 2.4. They lost 2 games in that first 34 and they never went more than 2 games without a win.
You're suggesting that in the last 4 they would have randomly got a points per game average of 0.5, lost as many games as they had in the first 34 in that last 4 and gone more than 2 games without a win for the first time all season. It's just not credible.
Your only basis for this seems to be they'd not won those particular fixtures in the previous 2 seasons. That's a vaguely interesting stat, but a completely meaningless one.
You do love meaningless stats. I do too, actually, but I just find them interesting rather that trying to attribute meaning to them to back up a point which has no merit.

The clear event that happened which marked the change in results was they'd clinched the title. Everyone on here acknowledged after that happened that they had the flip flops on. And there are clear examples of teams previously wrapping up the title and then easing off.

Again, I do not think that was a great Liverpool side. Their procession to the title does say a lot more about us and City than them. But it's just not credible to think that them wrapping up the title and those last 4 results are not connected and that had they needed more points they'd have got them.

[Marc Overmars]

I think the fact Slot buggered off to Ibiza after the title was confirmed kind of set the tone for those last 4 games. :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Again you’re trying to suggest a motivation for my argument to suggest I don’t believe what I’m saying. The point averages tell you what a team has done, it tells you nothing of what a team will do.

After the win in Paris, Liverpool played 12 games in all competitions of which they won five…Southampton, West Ham, Leicester, Everton and Spurs. Two sides that were relegated, and one that probably would have been relegated in any other season. With the exception of the Leicester game these were all home wins.

Add the PSG home defeat and the Newcastle final defeat, this was a team that wasn’t firing even before they won the title. The only game in that run where the Liverpool of earlier on in the season was evident was the home game which got them over the line against hopeless Spurs.

They didn’t power their way to the title, they used the momentum they’d built up earlier in the season and the hopelessness of ours and City’s title challenge to get them there.

As I’ve already argued once, they did what they needed to do by overcoming the obstacles of Brentford, Bournemouth, City and Villa four very tough away matches that they got ten points from 12 from. Now where I was wrong was suggesting end of last year that they might come unstuck in those fixtures and they didn’t.

But they were noticeably out of form from mid March to the end of the season (and that argument can be made even without the final four games) - going out of the champions league after winning away from home against PSG, losing a cup final and losing one of the two league away fixtures they had against Fulham.

This doesn’t suggest to me that they had an extra pocket of reserve to call on where they could have got so much more from four tricky fixtures post Spurs.

But I’m tired of repeating myself, I think you have a very incorrect misconception that I’m somehow trying to justify making a prediction about Liverpool at the start of last season that was wrong as if somehow that’s important to me. Who cares, I clearly got it wrong…I’m not talking down Liverpool because I got that prediction wrong, if I genuinely thought they were that good I’d say so. If I genuinely thought the only reason they got two points from the final four games is because they’d already won the title I’d say so.
The fact is neither of us know what would have happened for certain.
This whole argument is based on “you got burnt by Liverpool last season, what’s wrong with you that you don’t see them as a threat”
Well as I say, the biggest singular threat to us at this moment in time is the coach and questionable summer purchases

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think the fact Slot buggered off to Ibiza after the title was confirmed kind of set the tone for those last 4 games. :lol:

Quite. The title was won by then

What I find ridiculous is the insistence that I must be out of my mind to think a Liverpool side running on fumes would not have definitely got far more points from these games than they did if they’d needed them.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I’ll tell you what I will say though.

At this moment in time I’d expect Liverpool to finish above us, but it’s got nothing to do with Liverpool

Even though we are stronger in terms of squad depth, I think we are arguably weaker than last season

A lot of players have gone backwards - Odegaard, Havertz, Martinelli, Saka, Saliba, Raya.

The insistence on playing Lewis Skelly as inverted full back even though he lacks the awareness to play in midfield. That Norgaard even though he’s a squad option looks utterly pathetic, that Zubimendi doesn’t look cut out for the premier league. That we are trying to play a long ball game to combat the low block, but the problem isn’t really the style of play it’s the style of players. I can’t think of a less gifted team technically in my lifetime, it’s a team full of guile, physicality and I’d say mental resilience but no great dribblers or ball passers…and this is demonstrated by the fact that senior players are shown up by a 15 year old academy player.

It’s easy to be wise with hindsight but we should really have spent the money we used on Zubimendi, Mosquera and Norgaard (about 85 million collectively) on a top creative player.

Hmmm...a pretty good post.

All though I don't agree with all the conclusions (at least not until the transfer window is shut) I do have to agree its quite telling that the standout performances in our preseason games have all come from teenagers (Nwaneri &Dowman ) and probably it could be a worrying sign of things to come.

But honestly if this does turn out to be just like last season where practically all the new signings are found to contribute very little to whatever we achieve , then I can't see how anyone can justifiably make an argument that Arteta shouldn't be booted out immediately to avoid him overseeing another transfer window and keeping us in constant huge negative net spends while loading us with criminal wages of indolent and ineffectual players.

(BTW what ever Gyokores achieves won't be because of him, it'll be despite him AFAIAC, seeing as it clear his preference was for another "prospect" in Sesko and more importantly a striker should have been signed 3-2 seasons ago... so Gyokores success will make him look more and more silly AFAIAC (similar to what happened with Saliba))

[Mac76]

(BTW what ever Gyokores achieves won't be because of him, it'll be despite him AFAIAC, seeing as it clear his preference was for another "prospect" in Sesko and more importantly a striker should have been signed 3-2 seasons ago... so Gyokores success will make him look more and more silly AFAIAC (similar to what happened with Saliba))

totally agree, I should be excited by this coming season because I do think we have strengthened the squad and as you say we were fortunate to escape Arteta's preferred striker and instead got the right guy, but I just have very little faith he can get anything much extra out of the players - I didn't watch the Spuds game and while I'd repeat that i said somewhere about not reading too much into that game, by all accounts Frank outsmarted Arteta hands-down and we ended up resorting to the Horseshoe of Death because Arteta quickly ran out of ideas

[Mac76]

Fulham after Zin apparently :lol: :pray:

[Chippy]

totally agree, I should be excited by this coming season because I do think we have strengthened the squad and as you say we were fortunate to escape Arteta's preferred striker and instead got the right guy, but I just have very little faith he can get anything much extra out of the players - I didn't watch the Spuds game and while I'd repeat that i said somewhere about not reading too much into that game, by all accounts Frank outsmarted Arteta hands-down and we ended up resorting to the Horseshoe of Death because Arteta quickly ran out of ideas
I agree, that is why I have already resurected the "When will Artea be sacked" thread. :d

[Letters]

Again you’re trying to suggest a motivation for my argument to suggest I don’t believe what I’m saying.
If you do then you're contradicting what you were saying at the time, but I'll come on to that.


The point averages tell you what a team has done, it tells you nothing of what a team will do.
Obviously true. But to suggest that them wrapping up the title with four games to go had no influence on their results after that is ridiculous. The effect of them wrapping up the title is something you acknowledged at the time.


After the win in Paris, Liverpool played 12 games in all competitions of which they won five
This is simultaneously true and a skewing of the facts. They lost vs PSG, who you may remember ended up winning the CL - and they only ended up losing the tie on penalties, which is more than we did. And they lost against Newcastle in a competition literally no-one cares about. Well, apart from Newcastle fans but when you haven't won a trophy for over 70 years...
In the league after the PSG win they won 5 out of 6...at which point they'd wrapped up the title and downed tools. And you know they did because you said so at the time:

Here's you when after they went 1-0 down on the final day:


Scorelines so far reflective of the fact that most teams have bugger all to play for

And here you are during the Chelsea game:


Liverpool putting in a, we don’t give a fuck performance

And here you are after we played them:


Draw sounded about right to be honest. Would have loved to win, but coming from 2 nil down even against a Liverpool side that is off on its holidays mentally isn’t terrible.

My emphasis. And then in a separate post you said:


For Liverpool it was a glorified friendly

I’m old enough to remember the dead games after we won the title. In 1998 Got the shit kicked out of us at Anfield, then lost at Villa Park. 2002, we had the 4-3 game at home to Everton where defending meant nothing to either side. Then we had 2004 where we only cared about not losing rather than winning


So... :shrug:


The fact is neither of us know what would have happened for certain.
That is, of course, true. But the thought that a team wrapping up the title then often down tools is not controversial - it's something you acknowledged in the posts above.

[HCZ_Reborn]

If you do then you're contradicting what you were saying at the time, but I'll come on to that.


Obviously true. But to suggest that them wrapping up the title with four games to go had no influence on their results after that is ridiculous. The effect of them wrapping up the title is something you acknowledged at the time.


This is simultaneously true and a skewing of the facts. They lost vs PSG, who you may remember ended up winning the CL - and they only ended up losing the tie on penalties, which is more than we did. And they lost against Newcastle in a competition literally no-one cares about. Well, apart from Newcastle fans but when you haven't won a trophy for over 70 years...
In the league after the PSG win they won 5 out of 6...at which point they'd wrapped up the title and downed tools. And you know they did because you said so at the time:

Here's you when after they went 1-0 down on the final day:



And here you are during the Chelsea game:



And here you are after we played them:



My emphasis. And then in a separate post you said:




So... :shrug:


That is, of course, true. But the thought that a team wrapping up the title then often down tools is not controversial - it's something you acknowledged in the posts above.


Sorry where do you find me arguing that Liverpool made any particular effort in these fixtures within the last few days?

My argument is that given they were running on fumes, I don’t expect they would have done tremendously better had they actually needed to win

Honestly let it go, I’m comfortable with what I said despite your attempts to prove inconsistency with views in May.

[Letters]

Sorry where do you find me arguing that Liverpool made any particular effort in these fixtures within the last few days?
My argument is that given they were running on fumes, I don’t expect they would have done tremendously better had they actually needed to win
You're now arguing that they weren't able to to better. You previously, like most people on here, noted that they were "on holiday mentally". You literally said vs Chelsea it was a "don’t give a fuck performance". You said the game vs us was a "glorified friendly" and on the last day you said that the scorelines, which included Liverpool's reflected the fact that most teams "have bugger all to play for".
That is all very different to arguing that Liverpool just couldn't physically give any more.
You even regaled us with stories of the "dead games" after we'd wrapped up titles. So you acknowledge that this changes results. Now you're trying to pretend that on this occasion it didn't and it would have been the same anyway and you knew that all along.
Bull. Shit.


I’m comfortable with what I said despite your attempts to prove inconsistency with views in May.
It's not an attempt. The inconsistency is very clear, it's a bit silly that you're still trying to pretend otherwise.
I'd take you more seriously had I found any posts from you from the time in which you predicted they'd get such poor results in those last 4 games, but I can't find one.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You're now arguing that they weren't able to to better. You previously, like most people on here, noted that they were "on holiday mentally". You literally said vs Chelsea it was a "don’t give a fuck performance". You said the game vs us was a "glorified friendly" and on the last day you said that the scorelines, which included Liverpool's reflected the fact that most teams "have bugger all to play for".
That is all very different to arguing that Liverpool just couldn't physically give any more.
You even regaled us with stories of the "dead games" after we'd wrapped up titles. So you acknowledge that this changes results. Now you're trying to pretend that on this occasion it didn't and it would have been the same anyway and you knew that all along.
Bull. Shit.


It's not an attempt. The inconsistency is very clear, it's a bit silly that you're still trying to pretend otherwise.
I'd take you more seriously had I found any posts from you from the time in which you predicted they'd get such poor results in those last 4 games, but I can't find one.


You found the quote where I’d compared it to the game where we lost 4-0 to Liverpool after winning the title in 98.

Complete dead rubber game

But also we hadn’t beaten Liverpool in almost five years, and had lost the last three league games to them. So just as well we didn’t need to get a result there.

But nice try, trying to tell me what I think.

[Letters]

But nice try, trying to tell me what I think.

I don't need to. You told me yourself:




To be fair, although I don't think Liverpool have been exceptional and no-one has really pushed them - it's been a poor quality league all round this year.
But they have gone and got the results. They could get get around 90 points which is pretty much par for a title winning side.
Everything you say is true

:)

You obviously just forgot to add the bit where you definitely thought they weren't capable of better than 2 points in the last 4 games because 84 points was their ceiling and it wasn't because they weren't bothering, having already wrapped up the title.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't need to. You told me yourself:



:)

You obviously just forgot to add the bit where you definitely thought they weren't capable of better than 2 points in the last 4 games because 84 points was their ceiling and it wasn't because they weren't bothering, having already wrapped up the title.

Isn’t that largely taken out of context, the context being that Mac was saying we should be giving this Liverpool side more credit for their achievements and I was all like “fuck that”. And you appeared to agree with that sentiment?.

The fact is the title was over so I didn’t give any thought to those games because they were dead rubbers

But I’m sorry, I do think 84 points accurately reflects their ability…they got 82 points the previous season and I don’t think they’d have beaten us or Chelsea or to be honest Brighton even if they needed to.

Chelsea (A), Arsenal (H), Brighton (A), Palace (H) Are you honestly saying these are gimme fixtures. To get to ninety points they would have to at minimum won at least two of those games which actually was probably one of the hardest cluster of fixtures they’d faced all season

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Finally, Sky is reporting some good news after days of absolutely nothing happening:

1. Stuttgart are in talks with us regarding Viera (hopefully that means at least €20m)
2. Rodrygo staying at Real Madrid...pretty happy with that as I'm not interested in any more Brazilian attackers that struggle at big clubs.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Finally, Sky is reporting some good news after days of absolutely nothing happening:

1. Stuttgart are in talks with us regarding Viera (hopefully that means at least €20m)
2. Rodrygo staying at Real Madrid...pretty happy with that as I'm not interested in any more Brazilian attackers that struggle at big clubs.

More fool Stuttgart then :lol:

I shouldn’t write off the season based on three pre season friendlies but I’m hoping the Emirates cup matches show something different as we really don’t look ready for the season. Even against Newcastle two of the three goals was fortuitous own goal and a pel that probably wouldn’t be given in the premier league.

The board from their own perspective have bet the house on Arteta, and it could massively blow up in their faces.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/12040/13407150/thomas-partey-former-arsenal-midfielder-granted-conditional-bail-after-appearing-in-court-on-rape-and-sexual-assault-charges

Evidently the conditional part of his conditional bail doesn’t include joining a football club in a whole other country :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Sky is reporting Man U have bid £73m for Sesko, clearly they are now involved in a bidding war with Newcastle which is something similar we would have gotten involved in if we had kept dithering on Gyokeores and both the player and his agent hadn't made all those sacrifices.

Its been proven time and time again that its best to get your transfer business done early as there is little value waiting late like it's some sort of January Christmas sale market.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sesko remains the option id have gone for and therefore I hope that neither United or Newcastle manage to get their hands on him (my preference would be for Newcastle to keep Isak)

That kind of money does however represent a big risk especially for United who threw a lot of money at Hojlund (who I still think could be a decent player for a team with a decent midfield)

[Letters]

Isn’t that largely taken out of context, the context being that Mac was saying we should be giving this Liverpool side more credit for their achievements and I was all like “fuck that”. And you appeared to agree with that sentiment?.
Not really. This is the relevant thread - it's the thread for the set of fixtures which included the Liverpool vs Spurs game where they wrapped up the title.
https://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5532

You went on some rant apropos nothing which is best summed up by the two words "fuck Liverpool".
Then Mac said your ire would be better aimed at various referees - he didn't say anything about giving Liverpool credit (maybe he did elsewhere, but we are talking about the context of your post).
Then I posted the above and that was your response.


The fact is the title was over so I didn’t give any thought to those games because they were dead rubbers
Well exactly. And as you noted several times in the threads around those last few games, that end of season nothing to play for feeling affects performances and results.
Now you're claiming it didn't affect the results - but when I said that Liverpool "could get get around 90 points" you just agreed with me. You didn't make any predictions about those last games.
Now you're retrospectively claiming you never thought they'd get more than 2 points from those 4 games. If you did think that then you didn't articulate that at the time. What you did articulate was that Liverpool had gone to the beach, as did others.


But I’m sorry, I do think 84 points accurately reflects their ability
OK. Then I disagree for the reasons given multiple times.
Ultimately it's a slightly pointless debate (one could argue that this place is mostly for those). We obviously can't re-run the season where Liverpool needed more from those last 4 games games to see how they'd fare. So ultimately we can't know who is right. But given that that run of 4 games was a massive outlier in terms of their results last season AND they'd wrapped up the title before those 4 games AND we all acknowledge that end of season where there's nothing to play for often throw up unusual results, it just seems unlikely to me. And if you did think that all along then you gave no indication of it at the time. No, they're not gimme fixtures, but they'd already beaten Chelsea, Brighton and Palace previously in the season.

Again, I do not think that Liverpool side was one of the great Premier League sides. We are aligned on that. But they did what they needed to do last season. Even if they blundered their way through some games - any title winning side does that, it's part of what propels a side to be champions. The fact they won it so easily does say a lot more about our and City's failings than Liverpool sweeping all before them. But I'm pretty confident that had they needed more from those last 4 games to clinch the title then they'd have got it. And I'd suggest your opinion about this is somewhat clouded by your own admitted bitterness about them.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Not really. This is the relevant thread - it's the thread for the set of fixtures which included the Liverpool vs Spurs game where they wrapped up the title.
https://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=5532

You went on some rant apropos nothing which is best summed up by the two words "fuck Liverpool".
Then Mac said your ire would be better aimed at various referees - he didn't say anything about giving Liverpool credit (maybe he did elsewhere, but we are talking about the context of your post).
Then I posted the above and that was your response.


Well exactly. And as you noted several times in the threads around those last few games, that end of season nothing to play for feeling affects performances and results.
Now you're claiming it didn't affect the results - but when I said that Liverpool "could get get around 90 points" you just agreed with me. You didn't make any predictions about those last games.
Now you're retrospectively claiming you never thought they'd get more than 2 points from those 4 games. If you did think that then you didn't articulate that at the time. What you did articulate was that Liverpool had gone to the beach, as did others.


OK. Then I disagree for the reasons given multiple times.
Ultimately it's a slightly pointless debate (one could argue that this place is mostly for those). We obviously can't re-run the season where Liverpool needed more from those last 4 games games to see how they'd fare. So ultimately we can't know who is right. But given that that run of 4 games was a massive outlier in terms of their results last season AND they'd wrapped up the title before those 4 games AND we all acknowledge that end of season where there's nothing to play for often throw up unusual results, it just seems unlikely to me. And if you did think that all along then you gave no indication of it at the time. No, they're not gimme fixtures, but they'd already beaten Chelsea, Brighton and Palace previously in the season.

Again, I do not think that Liverpool side was one of the great Premier League sides. We are aligned on that. But they did what they needed to do last season. Even if they blundered their way through some games - any title winning side does that, it's part of what propels a side to be champions. The fact they won it so easily does say a lot more about our and City's failings than Liverpool sweeping all before them. But I'm pretty confident that had they needed more from those last 4 games to clinch the title then they'd have got it. And I'd suggest your opinion about this is somewhat clouded by your own admitted bitterness about them.

I am incredibly bitter about Liverpool’s title, I’ve made a point of saying that no matter what Arteta wins from here on out I cannot and will not forgive last season, that title was our title and his bungling and squad mismanagement gave it away.

But what you fail to appreciate is that if this was equivalent to the Klopp side of 2020 that Bitterness would not exist, because I wouldn’t make any assumption that this was our title. It would have been well it would have been good to be competitive but this Liverpool side were relentless anyway.

It’s because I don’t regard this Liverpool team highly that I’m bitter about them winning the title, not that I’m bitter about them winning the title therefore I won’t acknowledge them.

The fact is by the time Liverpool’s form dropped in mid March they’d played mainly all their tough games. The fact is though they were limping along but being helped by us (we drew at Everton the day before they lost to Fulham, we drew at home to Brentford and Palace which meant they only needed a draw to win the title at home to Spurs).

So just imagine a scenario where they needed a win against Chelsea the fixture after, Chelsea who hadn’t lost at home to December…against a Liverpool team that was lagging (maybe you’d put your money on it but I wouldn’t)

At home to us, they had a two goal lead….can you not imagine a scenario where they might have panicked and given up the two goals and maybe even panicked further and ended up losing?

Brighton and Palace, two sides that have proved to be banana skins for Liverpool.


Now I tell you what I’ll concede one thing, maybe if the form they were in up to March was there maybe they’d have got more points…but they weren’t in that form. They made heavy weather of Southampton, Leicester, Everton and West Ham…they lost to PSG, Newcastle and Fulham…this was clearly the poorest form they’d been in all season.

And I think had we or city been in contention, it would have put serious doubt in their mind (that we never put pressure on them, meant their mettle was never tested)

[Letters]

I am incredibly bitter about Liverpool’s title, I’ve made a point of saying that no matter what Arteta wins from here on out I cannot and will not forgive last season, that title was our title and his bungling and squad mismanagement gave it away.
It's a little extreme to ever say that it's "our" title, but it's certainly true that with the previous 2 seasons we were - or should have been - best placed to take advantage of City's drop off. The fact we didn't sign a striker last summer was awful mismanagement. I wouldn't go all "may God forgive you, I never shall" as that seems a little histrionic, but it was certainly massive incompetence which cost us the chance of a first title in a generation. How much of that incompetence was Arteta's I don't know - he expressed some frustration at our transfer dealings, I think that was in January, which implies he's not entirely culpable.


It’s because I don’t regard this Liverpool team highly that I’m bitter about them winning the title, not that I’m bitter about them winning the title therefore I won’t acknowledge them
I'm not asking you to acknowledge them. I don't acknowledge them - I don't think it was a great side. It's the fact that they had no real competition and the standard of the PL generally was so poor which handed them the title. Us and City were poor by the standards we'd set. Utd and Spurs were hilariously inept. It was probably the worst bottom 3 in PL history.The title race, such as it was, was over by the end of February. Liverpool were the best of a bad bunch.


So just imagine a scenario where they needed a win against Chelsea the fixture after, Chelsea who hadn’t lost at home to December…against a Liverpool team that was lagging (maybe you’d put your money on it but I wouldn’t)
But at the time you said - this was before the Liverpool vs Spurs game, "if it's not today then it'll be after the next match.". So at the time you acknowledged they'd win it at some point.
I don't see any sense in micro-analysing each of their last 4 games. It's just a fact that once they won the title they switched off, as is very common for sides who clinch the title. NQ's the only one who used to pretend that winning sides don't do that. They very much do and always have. So it seems extremely implausible that the fact they'd wrapped up the title so early didn't affect any of their subsequent results.


And I think had we or city been in contention, it would have put serious doubt in their mind (that we never put pressure on them, meant their mettle was never tested)

Now this is a more plausible. You said above they'd have crumbled had they been put under pressure. It's another unprovable and unfalsifiable assertion, but it's certainly true that sides are more likely to wobble when teams are breathing down their neck. Unfortunately we were never close enough to do that so I guess we'll never know. But it's an argument I can get on board with.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's a little extreme to ever say that it's "our" title, but it's certainly true that with the previous 2 seasons we were - or should have been - best placed to take advantage of City's drop off. The fact we didn't sign a striker last summer was awful mismanagement. I wouldn't go all "may God forgive you, I never shall" as that seems a little histrionic, but it was certainly massive incompetence which cost us the chance of a first title in a generation. How much of that incompetence was Arteta's I don't know - he expressed some frustration at our transfer dealings, I think that was in January, which implies he's not entirely culpable.


I'm not asking you to acknowledge them. I don't acknowledge them - I don't think it was a great side. It's the fact that they had no real competition and the standard of the PL generally was so poor which handed them the title. Us and City were poor by the standards we'd set. Utd and Spurs were hilariously inept. It was probably the worst bottom 3 in PL history.The title race, such as it was, was over by the end of February. Liverpool were the best of a bad bunch.


But at the time you said - this was before the Liverpool vs Spurs game, "if it's not today then it'll be after the next match.". So at the time you acknowledged they'd win it at some point.
I don't see any sense in micro-analysing each of their last 4 games. It's just a fact that once they won the title they switched off, as is very common for sides who clinch the title. NQ's the only one who used to pretend that winning sides don't do that. They very much do and always have. So it seems extremely implausible that the fact they'd wrapped up the title so early didn't affect any of their subsequent results.



Now this is a more plausible. You said above they'd have crumbled had they been put under pressure. It's another unprovable and unfalsifiable assertion, but it's certainly true that sides are more likely to wobble when teams are breathing down their neck. Unfortunately we were never close enough to do that so I guess we'll never know. But it's an argument I can get on board with.

You’re kind of running circles around yourself by rehashing an old argument, yes they did absolutely switch off after they won the title I’m not disputing that. That changes the games and can change the outcome but I’m saying if they needed to win those games they would have struggled (they didn’t struggle in those games, they didn’t really give a fuck)
Given the week after the Spurs game we lost to Bournemouth, I think it’s fair to say that was more in relation to how we’d drop points and give them the title win

You might think it extreme but for me it was our title, September 23rd 2024 when I learned that Rodri was going to be out for the season. Not only did I think we were title favourites, I considered the title to be ours and in my view it should have been. And nothing Liverpool subsequently did changed that, we should have beaten them at home and I think that would have seriously derailed them anyway (partly shit refereeing, partly over cautious Arteta)

We will never get an open goal invitation like that again I don’t think. City will resume their dominance meaning that we will have to hope we can do what a stronger Liverpool side couldn’t and that’s beat City at their relentless best. At the moment, to be perfectly honest I think top 4 looks like a struggle. We’ve spent most of our summer transfer money on water carriers again and we are seriously lacking goals, and for all the money we spend on defensive solidity we clearly lack it

[Letters]

At the moment, to be perfectly honest I think top 4 looks like a struggle
Nah. I don't see it that way. I know you're not convinced by Gyökeres but I think he's a proper goal scorer.
I'm actually quite upbeat about the coming season. We won't sweep all before us, but I think we'll be in the mix.
But I do agree that last season was an open goal which we fluffed and we won't get one of those again.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Nah. I don't see it that way. I know you're not convinced by Gyökeres but I think he's a proper goal scorer.
I'm actually quite upbeat about the coming season. We won't sweep all before us, but I think we'll be in the mix.
But I do agree that last season was an open goal which we fluffed and we won't get one of those again.

You’re right I’m not convinced by him, his stats show that his record against top teams is mixed, he has little experience against low blocks and apart from anything else even a top goalscorer needs consistent service.

Frankly if we don’t buy another midfielder I’d suggest playing both Havertz and Gyokeres up front and going 100% long ball

[Letters]

You’re right I’m not convinced by him, his stats show that his record against top teams is mixed, he has little experience against low blocks and apart from anything else even a top goalscorer needs consistent service.

Frankly if we don’t buy another midfielder I’d suggest playing both Havertz and Gyokeres up front and going 100% long ball

I've only looked at his goals/games ratio which is pretty impressive. I haven't looked in to the details.
I wouldn't actually object to a more direct game. Against PSG we were making mistakes at the back which could have led to conceeding.
The few times Raya did send it long we quite often won the ball. I'm not a fan of all this tippy tappy shit at the back.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I wouldn’t mind nothing I’m saying is controversial. It’s just one of football’s ironies. The team that we finished runners up with in 2023/2024 were arguably stronger than the team that won the title in 97/98, just like the Liverpool team that finished runners up in 2009 and 2012 was far superior to the one that finished champions in 2025.

It seems people are enraged because I won’t acknowledge how good this Liverpool team is, I don’t think it is that good. It did what it needed to do last season but I won’t have it demanded to me that it’s capable of so much more because I don’t believe it is, and people need to wind their fucking necks in a bit.

If we play to the level we are capable of, I think we finish above them. That’s something I can’t say about City, I think we could perform to our absolute best and still finish runners up behind them if Rodri is still the player he was before he was injured.

So don’t scream hypotheticals at me for expressing a view that really isn’t that hard to understand. If you don’t agree that this Liverpool side reached their ceiling at 84 points fine, I think it accurately reflects their capabilities and you only have hypotheticals of what you insist must be the case to refute that

I agree with you on this.
I would say Liverpool were the most consistent team last season, rather than the greatest. I don't think they were that amazing and all this talk now of 'if they sign Isak, they have already won the title' is ridiculous IMO.

Had we actually given them a fight last season instead of playing some dog shit football and you know, taken advantage of when they dropped points instead of dropping them ourselves at the same time - we might have actually overturned them and won the league instead.
When we played them in the first half of last season I was angry at how pathetic we were, as Liverpool looked bang average to me.
But we were in the early stages of Arteta's new 'defend at all costs' system that ultimately hampered everything we were doing on the pitch.

[Marc Overmars]

Seems like United have beaten Newcastle to the Sesko signing.

No one wants to sign for the Barcodes. :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

The main problem I can see over the past three seasons is at home, away from home even last season where we drew too many games we are doing ok. But not once over the past three seasons have we managed more than 15 wins from 19 and to guarantee you the title that’s not enough, we also lose too many games (six in three seasons, compared to City’s 4 and Liverpool’s 3).
The target as far as I can see is to get to 28 wins (16 at home, 12 away) and to turn some of the defeats into draws both at home and away from home to get over 90 points. I’d say therefore the minimum target is 90 points with 28 wins 6 draws and no more than 4 defeats (our total amount of defeats in the league last season).

To make this achievable we not only need Gyokeres to be far better than I expect him to be, we need Saka, Havertz, Martinelli, Madueke and frankly Odegaard chipping in with goals and we probably need one more goalscoring midfielder as well (whether that will be Nwaneri or someone we will purchase I don’t know). We need a lot of things going right for us, I think we also need to consider how much we play Lewis-Skelly as he’s defensively better than Calafiori but he’s not as effective going forward and he struggles in midfield.

My attitude is that Lewis Skelly and Timber should play against the big teams (Skelly will be protected by the fact that Zubimendi and Rice will be in midfield. And that Calafiori and White play against everyone else and that in those games we either play two attacking midfielders or we play both Gyokeres and Havertz up front

[HCZ_Reborn]

Seems like United have beaten Newcastle to the Sesko signing.

No one wants to sign for the Barcodes. :lol:

There’s surely got to come a point where United’s history is no longer a pull for them.

That said Sesko is a dangerous player to have to contend with on the opening game of the season and it was my hope that we’d have him for us rather than against us. I do think we will struggle to beat them on the opening game of the season, defensively they are hopeless but that won’t matter, if they get a lead like last season they will feel more confident of adding to it.

[Marc Overmars]

There’s surely got to come a point where United’s history is no longer a pull for them.

That said Sesko is a dangerous player to have to contend with on the opening game of the season and it was my hope that we’d have him for us rather than against us. I do think we will struggle to beat them on the opening game of the season, defensively they are hopeless but that won’t matter, if they get a lead like last season they will feel more confident of adding to it.

Guess it depends on who they’re competing with for players if their history is to carry any weight. All this shows is that Newcastle have no pull and are a long way from being considered a go-to club despite their improvement.

As for the season opener v United, I have a sinking feeling that we will lose 1-0.

[KSE Comedy Club]

There’s surely got to come a point where United’s history is no longer a pull for them.

That said Sesko is a dangerous player to have to contend with on the opening game of the season and it was my hope that we’d have him for us rather than against us. I do think we will struggle to beat them on the opening game of the season, defensively they are hopeless but that won’t matter, if they get a lead like last season they will feel more confident of adding to it.

I'm actually not worried about playing them tbh.

Yeh sure, they will put a shift in, but I think we do have more in our locker to beat them when it comes to the crunch.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Guess it depends on who they’re competing with for players if their history is to carry any weight. All this shows is that Newcastle have no pull and are a long way from being considered a go-to club despite their improvement.

As for the season opener v United, I have a sinking feeling that we will lose 1-0.

Pussy.

:)

[Marc Overmars]

Pussy.

:)

Very rude for a Wednesday morning.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Very rude for a Wednesday morning.

That's why I added a smiley, take the sting out a little :good: ;)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

My attitude is that Lewis Skelly and Timber should play against the big teams (Skelly will be protected by the fact that Zubimendi and Rice will be in midfield. And that Calafiori and White play against everyone else and that in those games we either play two attacking midfielders or we play both Gyokeres and Havertz up front

This is quite a good tactical suggestion, in fact it is a bit of a no brainer when one considers the personel we have.

The analysis that we can only afford dropping points in 10 games is pretty spot on too and seeing as this will be Arteta's 4th attempt at winning the league (or 3rd if you prefer) there really is no reason why he shouldn't have come to the conclusion that the emphasis should be more about winning games and not "not losing", his stubborn pattern in the last few attempts.

I'd go further and say the 6 draws is unnecessary especially if it's a match that isn't against another rival who could actually win the league. Looking back, especially at some of the games we got red cards in last season, we should have just gone gung-ho (Liverpool style as patented by Klopp) and chased the win damning the consequences. I mean just consider, 6 draws is equal to 2 wins, losing the other 4 actually doesn't matter. Also if you have a positive outlook, it's likely going to be 50% of those 6 games we win or lose, so 9 points.

The thing about Arteta is it's obvious that his mindset regarding control will limit what he can achieve in this league where braver managers tend to win it. SAF had since layed the blueprint on how to win the league and probably no team that is preoccupied with doing what the invincibles did (which really is to dragonize losing) is ever going to get close to the title again.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

That's why I added a smiley, take the sting out a little :good: ;)

TBH, initially when I looked at our opening fixtures, the hope was not to lose any of them and I thought I'd be happy with draws in all the difficult ones.

But honestly if we intend to be different, and the fact is that we finally have a striker so we actually have the personel to set out to be different for the first time in ages....our goal should be to win more than half of them.... in fact I wouldn't even mind if we lost one if it meant we won the others . (United shouldn't be a title rival so I shouldn't really convulse if we lose, though to be honest I really still do hate United).

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is quite a good tactical suggestion, in fact it is a bit of a no brainer when one considers the personel we have.

The analysis that we can only afford dropping points in 10 games is pretty spot on too and seeing as this will be Arteta's 4th attempt at winning the league (or 3rd if you prefer) there really is no reason why he shouldn't have come to the conclusion that the emphasis should be more about winning games and not "not losing", his stubborn pattern in the last few attempts.

I'd go further and say the 6 draws is unnecessary especially if it's a match that isn't against another rival who could actually win the league. Looking back, especially at some of the games we got red cards in last season, we should have just gone gung-ho (Liverpool style as patented by Klopp) and chased the win damning the consequences. I mean just consider, 6 draws is equal to 2 wins, losing the other 4 actually doesn't matter. Also if you have a positive outlook, it's likely going to be 50% of those 6 games we win or lose, so 9 points.

The thing about Arteta is it's obvious that his mindset regarding control will limit what he can achieve in this league where braver managers tend to win it. SAF had since layed the blueprint on how to win the league and probably no team that is preoccupied with doing what the invincibles did (which really is to dragonize losing) is ever going to get close to the title again.


I can empathise with Arteta’s hatred of losing. Losing any game sickens me, and whilst I wouldn’t be completely risk adverse to the extent he is….i think defeats have a psychological impact that draws don’t so much.

I think for a start Emirates needs to be made a fortress, and I think more positive football not only allows for wins it prevents defeats. Plus 6 draws isn’t a lot, Liverpool got 9 last season and City 7 the season before.

28 wins is only 84 points, so the draws can help push us over the 90 point mark (yes we can aim for more wins, but have to remember we’ve only won more than 26 games once before)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Apparently we are asking for £30 million for Vieira, I know people here think we sell players too cheaply (I’m not sure that’s necessarily borne out more recently, especially when you consider how much we got for Nketiah and Smith-Rowe) but this is silly. We should consider ourselves lucky to get £20 million for him.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Sorry guys can we keep the Arsenal talk for General Football Nonsense and keep this to talking about Liverpool

[Chippy]

I will be disappointed if Sesko goes to United because I hate them as much as the Spuds.

Not only that, and I know that time will tell, but I was hoping that we would have bought Sesko rather than Gyrokeres. I also believe that Arteta wanted him more as well.

Liverpool are massive favorites this season IMHO, its all about second place.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Sorry guys can we keep the Arsenal talk for General Football Nonsense and keep this to talking about Liverpool

Here's hoping you don't get Isak so you stay last year's news, where you belong :p

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Liverpool just agreed to sell Nunez and are getting practically all their money back...why the hell can't we do shit like this with Havertz and better yet Jesus !!

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13407724/darwin-nunez-transfer-news-liverpool-agree-56-6m-deal-to-sell-uruguayan-striker-to-al-hilal

[Marc Overmars]

Saudi deals are generally a bit of an outlier but I think we struggle to get value out of our sales because we overpay to begin with, both in terms of wages and transfer fees.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Saudi deals are generally a bit of an outlier but I think we struggle to get value out of our sales because we overpay to begin with, both in terms of wages and transfer fees.

I definitely agree with the wages part. Apparently Merino is earning 1.5 times what we are paying Zubimendi, and we only got him last year as an afterthought because we couldn't get Zubi.

I think more than anything, Arteta's inability to rotate players properly is why a lot of our players don't seem to have value anymore.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Here's hoping you don't get Isak so you stay last year's news, where you belong :p

:lol: surely you mean this year's news.

I actually think Isak would become something of an albatross so I'm not fully convinced he is the right choice (as a player I think he's absolutely brilliant for the avoidance of doubt) but we need at least one forward so if he is the best option... And a centre back - we're experimenting with playing one of Robertson or Tsimikas as a centre back (to also play 3 at the back) which is a risky move.

[Marc Overmars]

I definitely agree with the wages part. Apparently Merino is earning 1.5 times what we are paying Zubimendi, and we only got him last year as an afterthought because we couldn't get Zubi.

I think more than anything, Arteta's inability to rotate players properly is why a lot of our players don't seem to have value anymore.

I also think we lack foresight when it comes to moving players on. By the time we try to clear them out it’s too late and their stock has fallen off a cliff. For example I believe Jesus and Zinchenko are 2 players that should have been moved on last summer but now we are at the mercy of whoever wishes to do us a favour and take them. Giving Nelson a long term contract when he’s never demonstrated himself to be anything but an injury prone bit part player, you reap what you sow I’m afraid.

[Mac76]

I also think we lack foresight when it comes to moving players on. By the time we try to clear them out it’s too late and their stock has fallen off a cliff. For example I believe Jesus and Zinchenko are 2 players that should have been moved on last summer but now we are at the mercy of whoever wishes to do us a favour and take them. Giving Nelson a long term contract when he’s never demonstrated himself to be anything but an injury prone bit part player, you reap what you sow I’m afraid.

Slightly harsh on Nelson but generally agree

[Mac76]

:lol: surely you mean this year's news.

I actually think Isak would become something of an albatross so I'm not fully convinced he is the right choice (as a player I think he's absolutely brilliant for the avoidance of doubt) but we need at least one forward so if he is the best option... And a centre back - we're experimenting with playing one of Robertson or Tsimikas as a centre back (to also play 3 at the back) which is a risky move.

Taking Robertson out of the fullback position is insane unless he's really slowing down

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Taking Robertson out of the fullback position is insane unless he's really slowing down

I should have clarified, Van Dijk and Konate would obviously be the first choice. Gomez the injured backup. A.N Left Back would be the backup choice. Though hopefully with another option before.

But in any case, we've bought Kerkez for LB and yes, sadly Robertson has hit a wall. Though 31 and Scottish, he's practically middle aged

[Mac76]

I should have clarified, Van Dijk and Konate would obviously be the first choice. Gomez the injured backup. A.N Left Back would be the backup choice. Though hopefully with another option before.

But in any case, we've bought Kerkez for LB and yes, sadly Robertson has hit a wall. Though 31 and Scottish, he's practically middle aged

Ha, fair enough and I was forgetting about Kerkez, he'll be really good for you IMO

[KSE Comedy Club]

I also think we lack foresight when it comes to moving players on. By the time we try to clear them out it’s too late and their stock has fallen off a cliff. For example I believe Jesus and Zinchenko are 2 players that should have been moved on last summer but now we are at the mercy of whoever wishes to do us a favour and take them. Giving Nelson a long term contract when he’s never demonstrated himself to be anything but an injury prone bit part player, you reap what you sow I’m afraid.

Ironically, Nelson has looked better and more capable when he has played than Martinelli & Trossard in preseason.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I'm seeing rumours we are going to make an official bid for Eze as we have agreed an up front fee with Palace.

Also, we are exploring the possibility of getting Rodrygo on loan

[HCZ_Reborn]

Problem is, he can look effective in cameos but anymore than that and he has the first touch of Levi Bellfield

[KSE Comedy Club]

Problem is, he can look effective in cameos but anymore than that and he has the first touch of Levi Bellfield

:haha: true

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm seeing rumours we are going to make an official bid for Eze as we have agreed an up front fee with Palace.

Also, we are exploring the possibility of getting Rodrygo on loan

I’ve seen both these things, unfortunately the source I’ve seen it from is not a reliable one. So shall have to see

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It's taken less than 5 days for Man U to wrap up Sesko with a weaker bid....to think this is the same guy and club Arteta gambled last season on and much of this transfer window.... though I'm happy our convoluted process worked in "my" favour and we got the striker I preferred this time, I must say once again, the people who handle our transfer business are subpar and would be dismissed in any other serious firm.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13407644/benjamin-sesko-transfer-news-man-utd-agree-deal-in-principle-for-rb-leipzig-forward-as-newcastle-set-to-miss-out

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's taken less than 5 days for Man U to wrap up Sesko with a weaker bid....to think this is the same guy and club Arteta gambled last season on and much of this transfer window.... though I'm happy our convoluted process worked in "my" favour and we got the striker I preferred this time, I must say once again, the people who handle our transfer business are subpar and would be dismissed in any other serious firm.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13407644/benjamin-sesko-transfer-news-man-utd-agree-deal-in-principle-for-rb-leipzig-forward-as-newcastle-set-to-miss-out

I’m not really sure what the argument here is. What seems to be different is either Sesko is more keen to push for a move to United than us (and if that’s the case we dodged a bullet because I know we live in a world of respecting diversity but we shouldn’t as a club be giving charity to the mentally disabled) or that the structure of payment offered is different and in which case, that tells us more about how much KSE is prepared to let us spend all at once

[Marc Overmars]

Bit of chit chat that we could be targeting Lookman because a deal for Eze may be too tricky at this stage.

All seems quiet right now though, guessing things won’t really start moving until closer to the end of the window when clubs get a bit desperate.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Bit of chit chat that we could be targeting Lookman because a deal for Eze may be too tricky at this stage.

All seems quiet right now though, guessing things won’t really start moving until closer to the end of the window when clubs get a bit desperate.


I’ve been seeing that one a bit as well

Don’t know what I think about that, apart from not really wanting to sign any player that could be taken for AFCON

[Mac76]

Bit of chit chat that we could be targeting Lookman because a deal for Eze may be too tricky at this stage.

All seems quiet right now though, guessing things won’t really start moving until closer to the end of the window when clubs get a bit desperate.

Lookman seems a good possible option IMO

Also seen that Stuttgart might want Vieira, in which cas I hope we don't do any silly OTT bargaining and blow the chance to sell

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/13408629/ethan-nwaneri-new-arsenal-contract-18-year-old-midfielder-signs-new-long-term-deal-ahead-of-first-season-in-senior-football

Great news. I really wasn't sure he would sign seeing as Arteta can't seem to fit him into his vision of how football should bore us to death.

Here's hoping this season is different and we see a lot of him as he's done his part by bulking up ( stronger upper body than MLS) and we actually need creativity and unpredictability, which he has in abundance.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Bit of chit chat that we could be targeting Lookman because a deal for Eze may be too tricky at this stage.

All seems quiet right now though, guessing things won’t really start moving until closer to the end of the window when clubs get a bit desperate.

Lookman was always my top choice to finally provide us with real firepower on the other wing, and I still feel he's heads and shoulders above all the others wingers we've been linked with.

However it seems his heart is set on staying in Italy and specifically going to Inter, so AFAIAC we should focus on getting Eze before the league starts.....Palace will likley not sell once the league has started and especially if their appeal to stay in Europe is upheld.

[Mac76]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/13408629/ethan-nwaneri-new-arsenal-contract-18-year-old-midfielder-signs-new-long-term-deal-ahead-of-first-season-in-senior-football

Great news. I really wasn't sure he would sign seeing as Arteta can't seem to fit him into his vision of how football should bore us to death.

Here's hoping this season is different and we see a lot of him as he's done his part by bulking up ( stronger upper body than MLS) and we actually need creativity and unpredictability, which he has in abundance.

:good: really glad he's sticking around, he looked good in the R8/10 position vs Villareal, I think he'll kick on this season

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/13408629/ethan-nwaneri-new-arsenal-contract-18-year-old-midfielder-signs-new-long-term-deal-ahead-of-first-season-in-senior-football

Great news. I really wasn't sure he would sign seeing as Arteta can't seem to fit him into his vision of how football should bore us to death.

Here's hoping this season is different and we see a lot of him as he's done his part by bulking up ( stronger upper body than MLS) and we actually need creativity and unpredictability, which he has in abundance.

Never thought it was likely he would go tbh, I think there’s times when journalists see “he hasn’t signed new contract yet” and then maybe his agent mischief making.

I’d like to see him get more game time simply because I can’t stand the sight of Odegaard, the guy’s cowardice sickens me…I feel like General Patton when he slapped that bloke with shellshock around


But I would prefer to see him partnered with another attacking player up there.

[Chippy]

It's taken less than 5 days for Man U to wrap up Sesko with a weaker bid....to think this is the same guy and club Arteta gambled last season on and much of this transfer window.... though I'm happy our convoluted process worked in "my" favour and we got the striker I preferred this time, I must say once again, the people who handle our transfer business are subpar and would be dismissed in any other serious firm.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13407644/benjamin-sesko-transfer-news-man-utd-agree-deal-in-principle-for-rb-leipzig-forward-as-newcastle-set-to-miss-out

It has set up the opening game at OT quite nicely. You just know Sesko will score and the press and some Gooners will regret getting Gyko :rolleyes:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It has set up the opening game at OT quite nicely. You just know Sesko will score and the press and some Gooners will regret getting Gyko :rolleyes:

If we have Gabriel and Saliba at their best, they'll eat him for breakfast. However if it's Kiwior starting, he'll get a hattrick in 45 mins.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13408955/benjamin-sesko-transfer-news-man-utd-complete-deal-to-sign-forward-from-rb-leipzig-as-newcastle-miss-out

Man U have completed the Sesko deal, which leaves Newcastle out in the cold once more.

Currently the closest thing to a "marquee" striker available to them is Jackson.....but something just crossed my mind, what if Havertz was made available?

Now I'm just putting it out there, as I actually would prefer we offload the likes of Martinelli and Jesus before even considering Havertz, especially as I think its possible he might actually be able to play with Gyokores and we could get something special going on between them.

However this is a golden opportunity to get the money we paid to Chelsea back, and dare I say make a profit from this bit of business given Newcastle's predicament. Also the biggest wage earner, who will only play a bit part will also be gotten rid of in one swoop.

Again, just putting it out their as an opportunity and probably the chance of a lifetime for our joke of a transfer team to redeem themselves.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

There is no way on earth Arteta is giving up on Havertz, even if what you say makes a lot of sense.

IF Havertz remains a bench option then I am alright with that but it wouldn't be a huge surprise if Arteta still tries to crowbar him in somewhere anyway.

I realise I misread initially but oh well, I end up at overall the same point .

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13408955/benjamin-sesko-transfer-news-man-utd-complete-deal-to-sign-forward-from-rb-leipzig-as-newcastle-miss-out

Man U have completed the Sesko deal, which leaves Newcastle out in the cold once more.

Currently the closest thing to a "marquee" striker available to them is Jackson.....but something just crossed my mind, what if Havertz was made available?

Now I'm just putting it out there, as I actually would prefer we offload the likes of Martinelli and Jesus before even considering Havertz, especially as I think its possible he might actually be able to play with Gyokores and we could get something special going on between them.

However this is a golden opportunity to get the money we paid to Chelsea back, and dare I say make a profit from this bit of business given Newcastle's predicament. Also the biggest wage earner, who will only play a bit part will also be gotten rid of in one swoop.

Again, just putting it out their as an opportunity and probably the chance of a lifetime for our joke of a transfer team to redeem themselves.

Yes you would say that wouldn’t you

Just like I’m going to say that I’d rather United got Gyokeres and us Sesko, it’s indicative of personal bias

What I will say is that I think having Gyokeres will be good for Havertz, whether they play together or not…Havertz will probably play fewer games and as a result will have to fight for his place in the team. Or as I think could work both play together, although I think with what I said on the pre season thread about lack of width in full back area I’m not 100% sure would work

[HCZ_Reborn]

It has set up the opening game at OT quite nicely. You just know Sesko will score and the press and some Gooners will regret getting Gyko :rolleyes:

It’s ok, I regret us signing him before we signed him :lol:

Both Sesko and Gyokeres are reliant on good service, so United have improved their attack but they’ve done nothing to compensate for their shit midfield

But they have enough fire power that if we play like we did against Villarreal and Spurs they’ll win easily. My suggestion would be to soak up the pressure and try and hit them on the break

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

There is no way on earth Arteta is giving up on Havertz, even if what you say makes a lot of sense.

IF Havertz remains a bench option then I am alright with that but it wouldn't be a huge surprise if Arteta still tries to crowbar him in somewhere anyway.

I realise I misread initially but oh well, I end up at overall the same point .

Yeah I agree with you on the Arteta point and like I said earlier, I would prefer we got rid of Martinelli, Jesus, Viera and Nelson way before I start looking at Havertz as actually, this preseason, he's probably put in the best effort of all our established players during the games.

However, the fact remains we've got a lot of immovable "crap" in our team and it all has to do with how we mismanaged them by either not playing them enough or overplaying them (in the case of Martinelli).

In fact, on Martinelli, I read an article that says we're not selling him this summer because no one is coming close to meeting our valuation of £75m and instead we've decided to give him one more season to help push up his value.

Again if this is true, it makes me wonder the kind of people we have making decisions and if they've even got GCSEs if they think this will work instead of addressing and recognising the issues regarding his slump.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I think it's more he woulldn't give Martinelli up for his defensive work in the big games.

Sad that's what his first thought would be but it seems most rational to me.

[KSE Comedy Club]

If we have Gabriel and Saliba at their best, they'll eat him for breakfast. However if it's Kiwior starting, he'll get a hattrick in 45 mins.

Newsflash - Sesko isn't that good.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Savinho to Tottenham apparently.

Bit strange from Man City if that happens.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Newsflash - Sesko isn't that good.

I sincerely hope that by this time next week you don’t have cause to regret those words.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I sincerely hope that by this time next week you don’t have cause to regret those words.

Well, notice I didn't say Gyokores was though ;)

Maybe neither of them will score - but there is no way Sesko is hitting a hat trick against us.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well, notice I didn't say Gyokores was though ;)

Maybe neither of them will score - but there is no way Sesko is hitting a hat trick against us.

It would probably just be as much tempting fate for a United fan on a United forum to say Gyokeres isn’t that good

I think it’s unlikely any player scores a hat-trick against us given we haven’t conceded more than two goals in a competitive fixture since 2023. But if we defend like we did against Villarreal, I can see that record going out the window very early on

[Marc Overmars]

Savinho to Tottenham apparently.

Bit strange from Man City if that happens.

They are apparently interested in Rodrygo.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gyo - Yes, done! And Zubi's the bomb, got to admit.

Title incoming and CL - watch, wait. see.

That's that then.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Spuds have initiated talks with Palace for Eze now.

He still prefers a move to us but will only wait so long for us to offload players (according to reports) maybe we should have just triggered the release clause :shrug:

Elsewhere, it's being reported that Zinchenko is considering seeing out the last year of his contract so he can leave on a free - well fuck off you c*nt!
We need to sell him quick sharpish.

[Marc Overmars]

Not a good look if we miss out on a target to Spurs that’s for sure.

[Marc Overmars]

In other news it’s been reported by Ornstein that Isak has no intention of ever playing for Newcastle again. :lol:

Barcodes will surely have to just swallow this and let him go.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

If we lose Eze to the Spuds and don't get Rodrygo (which we won't as we don't seem to learn our lessons when it comes to players emanating from La Liga), then as usual that will be another indictment on the ability of those handle who transfer business, but that hardly surprises me.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

BTW I'm pretty worried about the news that the Chavs are in for Donarumma.

I mean I was just learning to live with it when it looked like he was going to United, but if he ends up at Chelsea, who people seem to have not noticed have recently become really good at keeping clean sheets ....then I am pretty worried about their ability this coming season, especially as they are also in the CL.

[HCZ_Reborn]

If we lose Eze to the Spuds and don't get Rodrygo (which we won't as we don't seem to learn our lessons when it comes to players emanating from La Liga), then as usual that will be another indictment on the ability of those who transfer business, but that hardly surprises me.

Well no it wouldn’t because if you start with a belief and then latch onto anything that you think might confirm that belief, you will be many things but not surprised.

Me? I don’t actually know how good those who conduct our transfer business are. Though I find it interesting that we have a new director of football and things are not remarkably different to how they were under Edu, and maybe I’m being guilty of confirmation bias but maybe it’s difficult to do everything that we need to do when we don’t have infinite resources and maybe this comes down to where we don’t rotate enough but we find it difficult to get money for the players we do sell.

But then even City can only get rid of Grealish on loan.

Plus Eze was linked with Spurs before he was linked with us

[KSE Comedy Club]

In other news it’s been reported by Ornstein that Isak has no intention of ever playing for Newcastle again. :lol:

Barcodes will surely have to just swallow this and let him go.

By all accounts they will make him play in the reserves if they have to.

They are already bitter that they lost out on Sesko for example, they won't be steam rolled when it comes to Isak.
It will be an interesting battle of wits, that's for sure :popcorn:

[HCZ_Reborn]

By all accounts they will make him play in the reserves if they have to.

They are already bitter that they lost out on Sesko for example, they won't be steam rolled when it comes to Isak.
It will be an interesting battle of wits, that's for sure :popcorn:

I personally think what Liverpool offered Newcastle for Isak was more than reasonable

I also think Isak’s behaviour is reprehensible, yes I get that players only have a short career and you’ve got to grab opportunities but maybe he ought to have thought about that before a) signing a six year contract with Newcastle and b) waiting until so late in the day to throw Teddy out of the pram.

Newcastle are playing for time and they are winning that battle

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Yeah I'm not a massive fan of how this is playing out tbh.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah I'm not a massive fan of how this is playing out tbh.

Nope and nor would I be if I supported Liverpool

If this saga continues I’d consider moving on to someone else like Guirassy.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I personally think what Liverpool offered Newcastle for Isak was more than reasonable

I also think Isak’s behaviour is reprehensible, yes I get that players only have a short career and you’ve got to grab opportunities but maybe he ought to have thought about that before a) signing a six year contract with Newcastle and b) waiting until so late in the day to throw Teddy out of the pram.

Newcastle are playing for time and they are winning that battle

I get that but what they offered is not what Newcastle want.
I wouldn't pay more than £80m for him personally, but I know I'm probably in the minority.

Isak still has 3 years left so it's not like Barcodes have to accept either.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I get that but what they offered is not what Newcastle want.
I wouldn't pay more than £80m for him personally, but I know I'm probably in the minority.

Isak still has 3 years left so it's not like Barcodes have to accept either.

I do agree, I’m simply saying that Liverpool offered a reasonable amount for him (in that they haven’t been disrespectful), Newcastle’s rejection of that offer is of course in keeping with their stated aim of not wanting to sell the player and despite Isak’s tantrum throwing they are not obliged to accept a lower offer than 150million

80 million is probably about right, but was always going to be sold (if at all) well above market value

[Chippy]

If we lose Eze to the Spuds and don't get Rodrygo (which we won't as we don't seem to learn our lessons when it comes to players emanating from La Liga), then as usual that will be another indictment on the ability of those who transfer business, but that hardly surprises me.

I reckon this is a done deal for Spuds tbh.

We cannot buy anyone else (apparently) until we sell. Sadly.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Trossard is leaving this summer - being reported now

Fenerbache have bid for Zinchenko too so hopefully these two going would trigger a deal for Eze (if we pull our fingers out)

[Marc Overmars]

Always felt Trossard was likely to leave. Can’t knock the value we’ve got out of him given his productivity.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Always felt Trossard was likely to leave. Can’t knock the value we’ve got out of him given his productivity.

100% agree. I think he has use as a squad player, but the player himself wants to go. And I don’t think he owes us anything so good luck to him wherever he ends up

[KSE Comedy Club]

100% agree. I think he has use as a squad player, but the player himself wants to go. And I don’t think he owes us anything so good luck to him wherever he ends up

Just a transfer fee :)

[Marc Overmars]

Should get at least 20m I would have thought. Whoever signs him is getting an instant impact for their team.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Oh dear, Ben Jacobs has just tweeted that Spurs are moving and we are waiting, with the focus on player outgoings.

Also Nwaneri is viewed as a no. 10 option.

Same old Arsenal.

[Marc Overmars]

Oh dear, Ben Jacobs has just tweeted that Spurs are moving and we are waiting, with the focus on player outgoings.

Also Nwaneri is viewed as a no. 10 option.

Same old Arsenal.

A lot of fans are angered by this (probably because it’s Spurs) but personally I see Eze as a bit of a luxury signing because although he’s quality I don’t know exactly where he’d fit in for us realistically. Squad depth would be brilliant but you don’t buy a player like Eze as a rotation option. At Spurs he goes straight into their starting 11 no questions asked so I can see the appeal of that for the player. Plus there has to be a show of faith for Nwaneri and even Madueke to a degree who can perform similar roles to Eze.

Also, we simply have to get players out the door and my guess is that a lot probably won’t go until closer to the deadline.

[KSE Comedy Club]

A lot of fans are angered by this (probably because it’s Spurs) but personally I see Eze as a bit of a luxury signing because although he’s quality I don’t know exactly where he’d fit in for us realistically. Squad depth would be brilliant but you don’t buy a player like Eze as a rotation option. At Spurs he goes straight into their starting 11 no questions asked so I can see the appeal of that for the player. Plus there has to be a show of faith for Nwaneri and even Madueke to a degree who can perform similar roles to Eze.

Also, we simply have to get players out the door and my guess is that a lot probably won’t go until closer to the deadline.

Because having Eze would give us another dynamic and strengthen the squad.
We haven't actually strengthened much - we have instead been replacing (5 players out, 6 players in - 1 up from last seasons short squad)
I would say it's more a necessity rather than luxury

For weeks now, the talk was that we needed a LW and Eze to help bolster the attack. That was even after Madueke came in.
That would make us serious contenders, but as usual, as we get near to doing what is necessary we pull back a bit and do just enough to be there or there abouts.

I hate to admit it, but Odegaard's creativity looks like it has dried up and someone like Eze is clearly needed. Nwaneri is not there yet to be the replacement, he still has some naivety about him at times.

We should get the players in we need and then worry about selling the ones we don't after.
Eze could have been signed by now - after that I don't mind them working on the outgoings for the rest of the window.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It clearly doesn’t work like that, Liverpool have had to raise considerable cash to make their bid for Isak workable

The difference is they’ve sold off players that were constant parts of their first team squad, we are mainly trying to sell those who are on the periphery

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Because having Eze would give us another dynamic and strengthen the squad.
We haven't actually strengthened much - we have instead been replacing (5 players out, 6 players in - 1 up from last seasons short squad)
I would say it's more a necessity rather than luxury

For weeks now, the talk was that we needed a LW and Eze to help bolster the attack. That was even after Madueke came in.
That would make us serious contenders, but as usual, as we get near to doing what is necessary we pull back a bit and do just enough to be there or there abouts.

I hate to admit it, but Odegaard's creativity looks like it has dried up and someone like Eze is clearly needed. Nwaneri is not there yet to be the replacement, he still has some naivety about him at times.

We should get the players in we need and then worry about selling the ones we don't after.
Eze could have been signed by now - after that I don't mind them working on the outgoings for the rest of the window.

:gp: great post and 100% agree, especially regarding getting what you need now and then waiting for clubs that have foolish transfer tsars like Arsenal to come and take the likes of Madueke, Nunez and Hojlund off your hands for good money.

Its called a transfer market for a reason, players are up for a public sale and the first serious bidder takes them away. Its extremely foolish and a dereliction of duty to expect professional players to keep acting like Gyokores, Mosquera and Isak, and continually do the dirty work for you. This was the same mistake we made with Rice (remember Citeh came late in the game to outbid us) and more lately Sesko last year, when we should have got him then and likely saved our season.

I wish Eze the best in whatever decision he makes.

[IBK]

A lot of fans are angered by this (probably because it’s Spurs) but personally I see Eze as a bit of a luxury signing because although he’s quality I don’t know exactly where he’d fit in for us realistically. Squad depth would be brilliant but you don’t buy a player like Eze as a rotation option. At Spurs he goes straight into their starting 11 no questions asked so I can see the appeal of that for the player. Plus there has to be a show of faith for Nwaneri and even Madueke to a degree who can perform similar roles to Eze.

Also, we simply have to get players out the door and my guess is that a lot probably won’t go until closer to the deadline.

I tend to agree with this. I would love Eze but he has to be regarded as a luxury and an out and out LW is probably more of a priority for us. We can lament our failure to sell players but (maybe Trossard aside) the players that are available to buy from Arsenal are going to be regarded as fairly average, and (the best of the best excepted), this is definitely a buyers' market. We are suffering from the fact that the likes of Zinchenko and Vieira have been frozen out and not only do potential suiters know they are surplus to our requirements but their reputations have suffered. Plus we pay relatively high wages.

I think the truth is that Arsenal are still suffering in the sale market from our years of under-performance. During this time we have developed younger players whom we want to keep, but not until recently have we bought players with a view to maximising their value and selling them on...or those who fit into this category (Vieira; Lokonga; Nelson) have not for whatever reason reached the heights required for any kind of bidding war...and remain 'sale at any price' players. I don't really blame anyone for this. We want the manager to play squad players but also demand the highest performances; we cannot sell when there is insufficient demand - no matter who is director of football. And we have not reached a point where the club's status invites buyers to think they are signing potential superstars....

[HCZ_Reborn]

I tend to agree with this. I would love Eze but he has to be regarded as a luxury and an out and out LW is probably more of a priority for us. We can lament our failure to sell players but (maybe Trossard aside) the players that are available to buy from Arsenal are going to be regarded as fairly average, and (the best of the best excepted), this is definitely a buyers' market. We are suffering from the fact that the likes of Zinchenko and Vieira have been frozen out and not only do potential suiters know they are surplus to our requirements but their reputations have suffered. Plus we pay relatively high wages.

I think the truth is that Arsenal are still suffering in the sale market from our years of under-performance. During this time we have developed younger players whom we want to keep, but not until recently have we bought players with a view to maximising their value and selling them on...or those who fit into this category (Vieira; Lokonga; Nelson) have not for whatever reason reached the heights required for any kind of bidding war...and remain 'sale at any price' players. I don't really blame anyone for this. We want the manager to play squad players but also demand the highest performances; we cannot sell when there is insufficient demand - no matter who is director of football. And we have not reached a point where the club's status invites buyers to think they are signing potential superstars....

:gp:

[Mac76]

I tend to agree with this. I would love Eze but he has to be regarded as a luxury and an out and out LW is probably more of a priority for us. We can lament our failure to sell players but (maybe Trossard aside) the players that are available to buy from Arsenal are going to be regarded as fairly average, and (the best of the best excepted), this is definitely a buyers' market. We are suffering from the fact that the likes of Zinchenko and Vieira have been frozen out and not only do potential suiters know they are surplus to our requirements but their reputations have suffered. Plus we pay relatively high wages.

I think the truth is that Arsenal are still suffering in the sale market from our years of under-performance. During this time we have developed younger players whom we want to keep, but not until recently have we bought players with a view to maximising their value and selling them on...or those who fit into this category (Vieira; Lokonga; Nelson) have not for whatever reason reached the heights required for any kind of bidding war...and remain 'sale at any price' players. I don't really blame anyone for this. We want the manager to play squad players but also demand the highest performances; we cannot sell when there is insufficient demand - no matter who is director of football. And we have not reached a point where the club's status invites buyers to think they are signing potential superstars....

It makes me laugh when I hear people on podcasts etc gping on about how much data is available to the clubs and they see so much we don't so they know best etc, if true then with signings like the ones you mention, Arteta, Edu etc have done an even worse job than we thought

That said a lot of the data is bullshit IMO. Data can even make Zin look good ffs - I rest my case

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

It clearly doesn’t work like that, Liverpool have had to raise considerable cash to make their bid for Isak workable

The difference is they’ve sold off players that were constant parts of their first team squad, we are mainly trying to sell those who are on the periphery

I think that's a very fair point. It's almost as if this year is the first year you can say it's Slot's team given the changes. Obviously certain changes have been enforced; Trent going was nailed on this time last year, Diaz wanted to go and that was rumoured... a death. It has meant we have had to change so much. But it's not as of we went into last season as favourites or even in the question (I naturally don't think we were are as bad as you say) hence we are favourites this year, I think small margins will determine this year between us, you and City (as shit as they were....they finished 3rd).

Salah will naturally drop off, he had an historic season but we are quite clearly trying to pivot away from being utterly dependent on him but if we can balance that and take the burden away from him whilst still having options then we have a frightening attack.

[KSE Comedy Club]

It clearly doesn’t work like that, Liverpool have had to raise considerable cash to make their bid for Isak workable

The difference is they’ve sold off players that were constant parts of their first team squad, we are mainly trying to sell those who are on the periphery

That's a fair point re: Liverpool, but it still doesn't change the fact that whilst we appear to have made a lot of transfers, they are mainly to replace 1st team players that have left.

We haven't really strengthened the squad that was already short from last season.

[Marc Overmars]

That's a fair point re: Liverpool, but it still doesn't change the fact that whilst we appear to have made a lot of transfers, they are mainly to replace 1st team players that have left.

We haven't really strengthened the squad that was already short from last season.

I’m not sure I buy how thin our squad is made out to be. Injuries decimated the squad last season to the point where even the back up options were crocked.

I know injuries can happen but you can’t stockpile players for a rainy day either. Well you can if you’re Chelsea but that’s not how we’ve ever operated. Could we do with more? Sure but getting top players to sign on the basis of being rotation options is not easy either.

[IBK]

I’m not sure I buy how thin our squad is made out to be. Injuries decimated the squad last season to the point where even the back up options were crocked.

I know injuries can happen but you can’t stockpile players for a rainy day either. Well you can if you’re Chelsea but that’s not how we’ve ever operated. Could we do with more? Sure but getting top players to sign on the basis of being rotation options is not easy either.

The fear is that we have pivoted to trying to address our availability issues of last season rather than (Gyok and Zubi aside) raising the ceiling. We are a good team, and in isolation our Summer strategy might be expected to allow us to make that final push. The problem is that we are aiming for a moving target, and all our competitors are strengthening significantly. Lack of sales (and lack of prime candidates to bring in proper revenue) is limiting us PSR wise - particularly in terms of trying to land an Eze or Rodrygo who would properly move the needle for us (we should remember that even Zubi is a replacement). I'm not really criticising the club, the reality is that we are not competing on a level playing field. But the harsh truth is that transfer wise we are also rans when it comes to the clubs we need to out perform for the title...and the smart money is on us falling short again, alas...

[Marc Overmars]

The fear is that we have pivoted to trying to address our availability issues of last season rather than (Gyok and Zubi aside) raising the ceiling. We are a good team, and in isolation our Summer strategy might be expected to allow us to make that final push. The problem is that we are aiming for a moving target, and all our competitors are strengthening significantly. Lack of sales (and lack of prime candidates to bring in proper revenue) is limiting us PSR wise - particularly in terms of trying to land an Eze or Rodrygo who would properly move the needle for us (we should remember that even Zubi is a replacement). I'm not really criticising the club, the reality is that we are not competing on a level playing field. But the harsh truth is that transfer wise we are also rans when it comes to the clubs we need to out perform for the title...and the smart money is on us falling short again, alas...

To be honest I think Arteta will be the main reason we fall short anyway, even if we were to sign a needle mover like Eze.

Time will tell but I’ve already said I have a feeling this could be his last year. I don’t believe he gets away with this kind of backing and falling well short again. I hope I am laughably wrong but that’s just how I feel about us right now. Think our window of opportunity to succeed is smaller than it was 2 years ago.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

To be honest I think Arteta will be the main reason we fall short anyway, even if we were to sign a needle mover like Eze.

Time will tell but I’ve already said I have a feeling this could be his last year. I don’t believe he gets away with this kind of backing and falling well short again. I hope I am laughably wrong but that’s just how I feel about us right now. Think our window of opportunity to succeed is smaller than it was 2 years ago.

I think you guys are on to something by pointing how difficult it will be to win the league this year compared to the recent past.

It's been a few years since one could actually say it genuinely looks like 3 or 4 teams could win the league. I mean when I look at our traditional rivals they all look considerably beefed up, except for the Spuds, but I like their coach and we lost to them already so they could still provide some surprises.

What I think is that though this might end up being the most competitive year for the league, it could still work in our favour especially if it means no team is able to go on consistent runs like Citeh need to do win a trophy. Liverpool have proved adept in mini runs and I think we can copy that a bit and beat them to it, especially now that we have a striker to hopefully hasten and shorten our recovery period.

Our team is pretty ok. Mosquera is a gem of a signing and I think our defence is still far above everyone elses. Our midfield is currently average but manageable. Partey will be a big miss with his class but if Zubi and Rice can stay fit and we can add Eze, we should be ok.

As for our attack, it's all about Gyokores and Saka and hoping that both stay fit for most of the campaign. I don't think Odegaard is going to pull trees and I do think we've seen the best of him under this manager, which is another reason we need the option that Eze provides.

As much as I deride Havertz, I think this season will probably be his best for contributions per minute coming on as an impact sub which suits him especially with his new physique. Nwaneri, if used properly, will also be quite important in goal contributions.


In short it's going to be a long and difficult season, and probably the hardest to win since our first attempt when Citeh were at their imperial best. However I think bar brawls suits us more than classic duels, the pressure is less and hopefully the media& refs won't only have us to focus on and sabotage early on as usual.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Staying on the topic of squads, for the first time in ages we apparently have the most valuable starting 11 in the EPL and we're a close 2nd when it comes to squads.

No pressure Mikel :lol:

https://tmssl.akamaized.net//images/foto/newsansicht/pl-mvp-starting-xi-1754919049-174542.png?lm=1754919059

https://tmssl.akamaized.net//images/foto/newsansicht/pl-mvp-xi-1754919011-174541.png?lm=1754919021

https://www.transfermarkt.com/which-premier-league-clubs-have-the-most-valuable-starting-xi-ahead-of-the-new-season-/view/news/458486

[IBK]

I think you guys are on to something by pointing how difficult it will be to win the league this year compared to the recent past.

It's been a few years since one could actually say it genuinely looks like 3 or 4 teams could win the league. I mean when I look at our traditional rivals they all look considerably beefed up, except for the Spuds, but I like their coach and we lost to them already so they could still provide some surprises.

What I think is that though this might end up being the most competitive year for the league, it could still work in our favour especially if it means no team is able to go on consistent runs like Citeh need to do win a trophy. Liverpool have proved adept in mini runs and I think we can copy that a bit and beat them to it, especially now that we have a striker to hopefully hasten and shorten our recovery period.

Our team is pretty ok. Mosquera is a gem of a signing and I think our defence is still far above everyone elses. Our midfield is currently average but manageable. Partey will be a big miss with his class but if Zubi and Rice can stay fit and we can add Eze, we should be ok.

As for our attack, it's all about Gyokores and Saka and hoping that both stay fit for most of the campaign. I don't think Odegaard is going to pull trees and I do think we've seen the best of him under this manager, which is another reason we need the option that Eze provides.

As much as I deride Havertz, I think this season will probably be his best for contributions per minute coming on as an impact sub which suits him especially with his new physique. Nwaneri, if used properly, will also be quite important in goal contributions.


In short it's going to be a long and difficult season, and probably the hardest to win since our first attempt when Citeh were at their imperial best. However I think bar brawls suits us more than classic duels, the pressure is less and hopefully the media& refs won't only have us to focus on and sabotage early on as usual.

Good points all. I would say that we are looking in better shape attacking-wise than we have for a while - mostly because (1) Saka and Havertz will be fitter than they were going into last season, and Madueke is there as cover, and (2) we have an out and out striker. I agree that the obvious point of failure is Odegard - and while we all hope he can get back to his best - particularly with more attacking points to service - the jury is very much still out on this. We have had a decent transfer season, which would turn into a very good one if we can land Eze or Rodrygo (I would favour the former), and it is central/left wing attacking wise where we now look most vulnerable.

Re your earlier post, I think we were right to pivot from Sesko - and for me there was not much in it between him and Gyok, and I think we did a good bit of business for the latter. I'm not going to critcise the club too much for their choice of targets - because as I say we do not have the resources to go toe to toe with Liverpool (excellent player management and sales for the past few years) or Citeh/Chelsea who can effectively 'cheat' the market. This is the reason why I can't help seeing us as also rans.

We have had a great record against the top teams for the past 2 seasons, so I hope this will continue - and I agree with you that more competition at the top could mean that our rivals take more points off each other. If so, I think we have an outside chance.

Re Arteta, I am a bit in 2 minds. I think we all agree that this season is a bit do or die for him. But I also think it's a bit harsh (MO's post) to say that if we fall short it will be down to Arteta. Put another way, I am not at all sure that another manager would do much better with the resources available and given the competition. You might say that many of our problems last season were down to him overplaying his key players or his tendency to try to be safety first. But on the other hand I'm not sure anyone else would have been able to see a decimated team to 2nd and CL semis - with no striker, and coaxing goals out of a pretty workmanlike midfielder. I think that Arteta - as much as we can criticise some of what he does - is an exceptional coach. Our transfer business shows that he recognises how vulnerable we can be to a low block and is trying to address this. Maybe 2 things can be true at the same time - that he gets a lot of his players to overperform, but at the same time has a ceiling. Time will tell.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Good points all. I would say that we are looking in better shape attacking-wise than we have for a while - mostly because (1) Saka and Havertz will be fitter than they were going into last season, and Madueke is there as cover, and (2) we have an out and out striker. I agree that the obvious point of failure is Odegard - and while we all hope he can get back to his best - particularly with more attacking points to service - the jury is very much still out on this. We have had a decent transfer season, which would turn into a very good one if we can land Eze or Rodrygo (I would favour the former), and it is central/left wing attacking wise where we now look most vulnerable.

Re your earlier post, I think we were right to pivot from Sesko - and for me there was not much in it between him and Gyok, and I think we did a good bit of business for the latter. I'm not going to critcise the club too much for their choice of targets - because as I say we do not have the resources to go toe to toe with Liverpool (excellent player management and sales for the past few years) or Citeh/Chelsea who can effectively 'cheat' the market. This is the reason why I can't help seeing us as also rans.

We have had a great record against the top teams for the past 2 seasons, so I hope this will continue - and I agree with you that more competition at the top could mean that our rivals take more points off each other. If so, I think we have an outside chance.

Re Arteta, I am a bit in 2 minds. I think we all agree that this season is a bit do or die for him. But I also think it's a bit harsh (MO's post) to say that if we fall short it will be down to Arteta. Put another way, I am not at all sure that another manager would do much better with the resources available and given the competition. You might say that many of our problems last season were down to him overplaying his key players or his tendency to try to be safety first. But on the other hand I'm not sure anyone else would have been able to see a decimated team to 2nd and CL semis - with no striker, and coaxing goals out of a pretty workmanlike midfielder. I think that Arteta - as much as we can criticise some of what he does - is an exceptional coach. Our transfer business shows that he recognises how vulnerable we can be to a low block and is trying to address this. Maybe 2 things can be true at the same time - that he gets a lot of his players to overperform, but at the same time has a ceiling. Time will tell.

Good post and really not much I can disagree with except that I feel MO is fully justified in suggesting that if we fail this season it will largely be due to Arteta's limitations which we've all become familiar with these 5 or so years.

You also seemed to suggest that I don't agree with the club going for Sesko over Gyokores due to my recent posts. Actually I fully agree with choosing Gyokores this season over Sesko as all though I have said over and over again that I believe Sesko is the greater talent with the higher ceiling, there was no way after the heartbreaking failures of the past few years that we even have the luxury of entertaining another project (which is what Sesko represents) when the finished article was staring us right in the face.

So I 100% agree with the pivot, though the manner in which it was done, with us creating tales about Sesko and an impossible deal, is a bit of poor form from us if you ask me.

What I did say though was we should have seriously pushed for Sesko a year ago when a striker was needed which was to buttress the point KSE made about going for players when you need them and not always waiting till you are in a comfortable/perfect position to do so.

Anyway, I'm just glad the team is more balanced than it has been for a while and if we can head into this season with Eze being a new addition and Trossard staying, I'd be pretty glad to back us as favourites.

[Marc Overmars]

Ornstein has said that Eze became less of a priority for us after Nwaneri committed. Also said that neither Arsenal or Spurs as it stands are prepared to pay what Palace want which is around 68m.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I’m not sure I buy how thin our squad is made out to be. Injuries decimated the squad last season to the point where even the back up options were crocked.

I know injuries can happen but you can’t stockpile players for a rainy day either. Well you can if you’re Chelsea but that’s not how we’ve ever operated. Could we do with more? Sure but getting top players to sign on the basis of being rotation options is not easy either.

We had a 23 man squad registered for last season - that's already 2 players short of a 25 man squad.
Injuries is a separate issue, even if all the players stayed fit, we were still 2 players short.

Fact is they clearly wanted to address the LW position this summer, which is why we kept hearing about Rodrygo and then Lookman, etc.

So we are still at least one player short to fill that role - which could be Eze

[KSE Comedy Club]

Good points all. I would say that we are looking in better shape attacking-wise than we have for a while - mostly because (1) Saka and Havertz will be fitter than they were going into last season, and Madueke is there as cover, and (2) we have an out and out striker. I agree that the obvious point of failure is Odegard - and while we all hope he can get back to his best - particularly with more attacking points to service - the jury is very much still out on this. We have had a decent transfer season, which would turn into a very good one if we can land Eze or Rodrygo (I would favour the former), and it is central/left wing attacking wise where we now look most vulnerable.

Re your earlier post, I think we were right to pivot from Sesko - and for me there was not much in it between him and Gyok, and I think we did a good bit of business for the latter. I'm not going to critcise the club too much for their choice of targets - because as I say we do not have the resources to go toe to toe with Liverpool (excellent player management and sales for the past few years) or Citeh/Chelsea who can effectively 'cheat' the market. This is the reason why I can't help seeing us as also rans.

We have had a great record against the top teams for the past 2 seasons, so I hope this will continue - and I agree with you that more competition at the top could mean that our rivals take more points off each other. If so, I think we have an outside chance.

Re Arteta, I am a bit in 2 minds. I think we all agree that this season is a bit do or die for him. But I also think it's a bit harsh (MO's post) to say that if we fall short it will be down to Arteta. Put another way, I am not at all sure that another manager would do much better with the resources available and given the competition. You might say that many of our problems last season were down to him overplaying his key players or his tendency to try to be safety first. But on the other hand I'm not sure anyone else would have been able to see a decimated team to 2nd and CL semis - with no striker, and coaxing goals out of a pretty workmanlike midfielder. I think that Arteta - as much as we can criticise some of what he does - is an exceptional coach. Our transfer business shows that he recognises how vulnerable we can be to a low block and is trying to address this. Maybe 2 things can be true at the same time - that he gets a lot of his players to overperform, but at the same time has a ceiling. Time will tell.

Arteta has spent close to a billion pounds since he joined - mainly all his choice of players.
Please tell me you are not suggesting that another manager couldn't do better with that money or that the 'resources available' have been small?

Also, he is the reason we had no striker - Auba left, what, 3 years ago? that's down to his and Edu's transfer strategy.

Come on now, there are no excuses left for Arteta.
This is it for him.
Win or bust.

It is on him completely this season if he can't win something.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Ornstein has said that Eze became less of a priority for us after Nwaneri committed. Also said that neither Arsenal or Spurs as it stands are prepared to pay what Palace want which is around 68m.

Thought that might be the case re: Nwaneri.

So Arteta is going to try and rely on in-experince again to get us over the line.
As I said before, just when it seems like we are going to do enough to be successful, we put the brakes on and say 'actually this should be enough'


Sigh.

[IBK]

Arteta has spent close to a billion pounds since he joined - mainly all his choice of players.
Please tell me you are not suggesting that another manager couldn't do better with that money or that the 'resources available' have been small?

Also, he is the reason we had no striker - Auba left, what, 3 years ago? that's down to his and Edu's transfer strategy.

Come on now, there are no excuses left for Arteta.
This is it for him.
Win or bust.

It is on him completely this season if he can't win something.

...and the club's net spend over Arteta's time has has been 3rd highest in the league. Further, we have had to vastly improve our squad with the team lying in 10th place when the manager joined. And it costs more to fix something that is broken than it does to maintain something that's already at the level.


I'm not trying to be an Arteta apologist, but if you are going to use transfer spend as a marker, he has out-performed this by finishing 2nd for the past few years, and from a far worse starting position than our competitors.


It's impossible to say whether someone else would have done better as our manager, but it's also unfair to dismiss Arteta's achievements and measure him against an imponderable.


I agree with you that this season is effectively make or break, but I don't like black and white analysis. And I don't agree that it's on him completely if we don't win anything. We are not in a vaccuum, and we are up against well established competitors who have also gone all out in this Summer's tranfer period. Putting failure to win a major trophy as wholly down to Arteta is facile given this reality.


If we don't achieve our aims, then yes - it's probably time to try something different. But it's too easy to regard success as a given - if a manager is of the required standard. It's far from this, and there are a multitude of factors, including luck, that are in play here.

[IBK]

Good post and really not much I can disagree with except that I feel MO is fully justified in suggesting that if we fail this season it will largely be due to Arteta's limitations which we've all become familiar with these 5 or so years.

You also seemed to suggest that I don't agree with the club going for Sesko over Gyokores due to my recent posts. Actually I fully agree with choosing Gyokores this season over Sesko as all though I have said over and over again that I believe Sesko is the greater talent with the higher ceiling, there was no way after the heartbreaking failures of the past few years that we even have the luxury of entertaining another project (which is what Sesko represents) when the finished article was staring us right in the face.

So I 100% agree with the pivot, though the manner in which it was done, with us creating tales about Sesko and an impossible deal, is a bit of poor form from us if you ask me.

What I did say though was we should have seriously pushed for Sesko a year ago when a striker was needed which was to buttress the point KSE made about going for players when you need them and not always waiting till you are in a comfortable/perfect position to do so.

Anyway, I'm just glad the team is more balanced than it has been for a while and if we can head into this season with Eze being a new addition and Trossard staying, I'd be pretty glad to back us as favourites.

As I say above, while we can all point to Arteta's failues as a coach if we fall short again, I don't think that this will necessarily be the whole story. Player for player the likes of Citeh and Liverpool match and quite possibly exceed our level, so you can't ignore the competition.

As for Sesko - he simply didn't want to leave Leipzig, so I'm not sure what we could have done to alter this. I take your point re the choice of Gyok - but I was more responding to the idea that this season we have failed to get players that we need now...

I am in full agreement with the idea that in hindsight we f*cked up by not getting a striker last Summer, but wasn't 2023/4 a record breaking season for us in terms of goals scored, our second highest ever points total (by 1 point), and fewest goals conceded in the league? I feel strongly that last season was our opportunity to win the league and we screwed it up by taking risks that backfired. But this conclusion relies far more on hindsight than obvious issues ignored prior to the season starting.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’m prepared to take the slings and arrows for this but does Liverpool really exceed our level. Presumably Salah won’t be at the same level as he was last season (fuck our luck if he is), Jota tragically is no longer with us, they’ve sold one of their best players last season in Diaz and although I think Wirtz is a top player it’s not really strengthening in a position that needed strengthening (Hungarian copy and paste had an excellent season last season I must admit).

They are very vulnerable at the back, and I still don’t think Slot is the same level of coach that Klopp is

If we get bested by City I’d be more inclined to say it’s out of our hands, but still City were out of the running as soon as Rodri was injured….we didn’t capitalise on that opportunity so I’m not exactly going to be sympathetic

Unlike 21_Gooner_Salute I’m not he has to win the league or gtfo. But he has to win one of the two major prizes, he’s had enough time to get things right and I don’t think he deserves any more leeway

[IBK]

Yep that's a valid view for sure. I think the 3 teams are pretty evenly matched - albeit that we are strongest in defence on paper, and certainly Liverpool looks stronger attacking wise - particularly if they land Isaak - which at this point seems failrly inevitable. I agree that it's crunch time for Arteta now - particularly as he has largely got the squad he wants now. It'll be interesting if we fall short of the league by 1 or 2 points and, say get beaten in the CL final, because nothing is guaranteed and luck/fine margins play their part.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I’m prepared to take the slings and arrows for this but does Liverpool really exceed our level. Presumably Salah won’t be at the same level as he was last season (fuck our luck if he is), Jota tragically is no longer with us, they’ve sold one of their best players last season in Diaz and although I think Wirtz is a top player it’s not really strengthening in a position that needed strengthening (Hungarian copy and paste had an excellent season last season I must admit).

They are very vulnerable at the back, and I still don’t think Slot is the same level of coach that Klopp is

If we get bested by City I’d be more inclined to say it’s out of our hands, but still City were out of the running as soon as Rodri was injured….we didn’t capitalise on that opportunity so I’m not exactly going to be sympathetic

Unlike 21_Gooner_Salute I’m not he has to win the league or gtfo. But he has to win one of the two major prizes, he’s had enough time to get things right and I don’t think he deserves any more leeway

No, I am with you on this.

I don't buy into the 'Liverpool are amazing' hype either.

[KSE Comedy Club]

...and the club's net spend over Arteta's time has has been 3rd highest in the league. Further, we have had to vastly improve our squad with the team lying in 10th place when the manager joined. And it costs more to fix something that is broken than it does to maintain something that's already at the level.


I'm not trying to be an Arteta apologist, but if you are going to use transfer spend as a marker, he has out-performed this by finishing 2nd for the past few years, and from a far worse starting position than our competitors.


It's impossible to say whether someone else would have done better as our manager, but it's also unfair to dismiss Arteta's achievements and measure him against an imponderable.


I agree with you that this season is effectively make or break, but I don't like black and white analysis. And I don't agree that it's on him completely if we don't win anything. We are not in a vaccuum, and we are up against well established competitors who have also gone all out in this Summer's tranfer period. Putting failure to win a major trophy as wholly down to Arteta is facile given this reality.


If we don't achieve our aims, then yes - it's probably time to try something different. But it's too easy to regard success as a given - if a manager is of the required standard. It's far from this, and there are a multitude of factors, including luck, that are in play here.

I'm sorry, but I do think another manager could have come in and done the same as Arteta has.

They may have bought different players and used different tactics - who knows, they may even have won some stuff too.
The problem here is that Arteta hasn't really achieved anything in terms of a 'marker'

He has improved defence for sure and got us challenging - but that is where the fairy tale, so far, ends.

Before him, we never finished outside the top 5 places, but we were on the decline.
Ok, so Arteta has got us up to finishing 2nd and challenging for the title twice in his tenure, but it's still, ultimately led to failure.

Another manger could have done the same thing, especially with a billion quid.

[HCZ_Reborn]

In fairness to IBK, he’s not saying that it’s impossible to know if another coach could have, it’s impossible to know if they would have.

It’s in no way controversial to say Arteta hasn’t done anything that no other coach could have achieved, I doubt very much if even he himself thinks that.

[IBK]

I'm sorry, but I do think another manager could have come in and done the same as Arteta has.

They may have bought different players and used different tactics - who knows, they may even have won some stuff too.
The problem here is that Arteta hasn't really achieved anything in terms of a 'marker'

He has improved defence for sure and got us challenging - but that is where the fairy tale, so far, ends.

Before him, we never finished outside the top 5 places, but we were on the decline.
Ok, so Arteta has got us up to finishing 2nd and challenging for the title twice in his tenure, but it's still, ultimately led to failure.

Another manger could have done the same thing, especially with a billion quid.

I agree with you that all Arteta has done is made us into challengers not put down any marker. And perhaps another manager might have achieved as much - we will never know. But I think it's a stretch to take the view that in the 2 years that we finished behind the behemoth that is Citeh it is likley that someone else would have seen us champions. I don't think it is likely, given their dominance. Last season could be seen differently, because I think that the manager and the club, in hindsight made mistakes and I think it is quite possible that another top manager would not have taken his eye off our attack like Arteta did. That said - I think that Arteta did show considerable coaching credentials by coaxing 2nd place and CL semi's out of a decimated first 11.

Where I diverge from you is that I think it's unfair to write off our vast improvement under Arteta to where we are now as a failure. I repeat that we have been at a disadvantage compared to our competitors in terms of having to make up ground in the transfer market - and whatever we have spent I think it is the harsh reality that we have less room for error in the transfer market than the likes of Citeh or Liverpool - partly for the simple fact that they have already won trophies.

I can see that failing to win major silverware this season, when we have gone all out for this would be an outright 'failure' for Arteta. But even then we talk as though success can be guarateed. And it can't.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Last season gives me the fear that the progress Arteta was making has stalled and we are at risk of going backwards

It’s strange to me that we’ve brought in six new players and only two of them are attacking players, where everything should have pointed to that being the priority almost to the exclusion of everything else.

I fear that every game this season Arteta will persist with playing defensive midfielders (Rice or Merino) in the number 8 role, with Rice and Zubimendi double pivot it might work against the top sides but against obdurate teams that’s too many water carriers

We need players who can pull defenders out of position and towards the ball. And not only do we not have that in central midfield, we can’t stretch the play because we want to play inverted full backs to stodge up the park

[KSE Comedy Club]

I agree with you that all Arteta has done is made us into challengers not put down any marker. And perhaps another manager might have achieved as much - we will never know. But I think it's a stretch to take the view that in the 2 years that we finished behind the behemoth that is Citeh it is likley that someone else would have seen us champions. I don't think it is likely, given their dominance. Last season could be seen differently, because I think that the manager and the club, in hindsight made mistakes and I think it is quite possible that another top manager would not have taken his eye off our attack like Arteta did. That said - I think that Arteta did show considerable coaching credentials by coaxing 2nd place and CL semi's out of a decimated first 11.

Where I diverge from you is that I think it's unfair to write off our vast improvement under Arteta to where we are now as a failure. I repeat that we have been at a disadvantage compared to our competitors in terms of having to make up ground in the transfer market - and whatever we have spent I think it is the harsh reality that we have less room for error in the transfer market than the likes of Citeh or Liverpool - partly for the simple fact that they have already won trophies.

I can see that failing to win major silverware this season, when we have gone all out for this would be an outright 'failure' for Arteta. But even then we talk as though success can be guarateed. And it can't.

I'm saying out of say ten other managers, at least three of them would have achieved the same as Arteta after being given a billion pound in 6 years.

There is no way we can suggest that we haven't had as many resources to catch up in the transfer market, especially when Liverpool for example have hardly spent much (until this summer) each window.

My original response was based on your comment
I am not at all sure that another manager would do much better with the resources available
This kinda makes it sound like he's had to struggle with what he's been given and achieved greater results than expected in spite of it (I know you may not have been suggesting this)

But he has been given a billion pounds to build a team. I would put money on other managers doing the same and winning something.
Managers of other clubs have had far less money, time and have still achieved similar or better than him.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Last season gives me the fear that the progress Arteta was making has stalled and we are at risk of going backwards

It’s strange to me that we’ve brought in six new players and only two of them are attacking players, where everything should have pointed to that being the priority almost to the exclusion of everything else.

I fear that every game this season Arteta will persist with playing defensive midfielders (Rice or Merino) in the number 8 role, with Rice and Zubimendi double pivot it might work against the top sides but against obdurate teams that’s too many water carriers

We need players who can pull defenders out of position and towards the ball. And not only do we not have that in central midfield, we can’t stretch the play because we want to play inverted full backs to stodge up the park

We are definitely still lacking in the attacking dept.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I'm saying out of say ten other managers, at least three of them would have achieved the same as Arteta after being given a billion pound in 6 years.

There is no way we can suggest that we haven't had as many resources to catch up in the transfer market, especially when Liverpool for example have hardly spent much (until this summer) each window.

My original response was based on your comment
This kinda makes it sound like he's had to struggle with what he's been given and achieved greater results than expected in spite of it (I know you may not have been suggesting this)

But he has been given a billion pounds to build a team. I would put money on other managers doing the same and winning something.
Managers of other clubs have had far less money, time and have still achieved similar or better than him.

:gp: Pretty good points again.

When you look at the cold hard facts that we've given him 6 years and over a billion pounds to spend and some of us still feel like he's exceeded expectations or some sort of miracle worker, it's a bit baffling.

Like I said earlier, the least we deserve from all this investment (and IMO the investment in time trumps the financial support) is the League....and I'd probably still sack him if he couldn't defend it the next year :cool:

https://tmssl.akamaized.net//images/foto/newsansicht/biggest-spender-2-1755165040-174803.png?lm=1755165048

[IBK]

I'm not saying that Arteta is a miracle worker. The original point I made when people started to talk about his £1bn spend is that if you want to judge our manager by money spent, then the facts speak for themselves. We are 3rd top net spender for the past 5 years so finishing 2nd in the league for 3 years running is outperforming that metric.

Also I get that £1bn is a headline grabber, but the only fair comparison is net spend. I'd go further and say that if we are comparing Arsenal to Citeh or Chelsea then the last 10 years' net spend is a more realistic comparison (because if we are fair, we need to look at what the manager inherited), and by that metric we are 4th in the league.

Now let's look at other comparatives. Sp*rs are 4th on the 5 year net spend and 6th over 10 years. If you want to look at expenditure only since Arteta joined the club, we are 4th on the list, but our spend is almost identical to Sp*rs in 5th. So on pure spend again Arteta has overperformed for the past 3 seasons.

21 GS is of the view that 6 years' time investment trumps even spend. This patently ignores the situation at the club when Arteta took over. Good old Google AI summarises the situation pretty accurately:

Ageing and Overpaid Players:
The squad contained several experienced players on large salaries, which limited Arsenal's ability to spend in the transfer market.
Recruitment:
Arsenal's recruitment had been lacking in vision and quality for some time, leading to a squad that was unbalanced and underperforming.
Low League Position:
At the time of Arteta's appointment, Arsenal was in 11th place in the Premier League, a far cry from their previous status as title contenders.
Initial Difficulties:
Arteta's first few transfer windows saw limited spending as the club focused on moving on high earners and addressing the imbalance in the squad.
Transformation Needed:
The squad needed a significant overhaul, with many players either not fitting Arteta's vision or needing to be replaced with younger, more dynamic players.
Academy Players:
A few academy players like Bukayo Saka, Emile Smith-Rowe, Eddie Nketiah, and Reiss Nelson were part of the squad, and they would later become key players.
Shift in Focus:
Arteta's focus was on rebuilding the squad, developing young talent, and creating a more cohesive and competitive team.

If people were expecting these issues to be sorted out quickly, then they are totally unrealistic. In fact, the reason our net spend has been so high since Arteta arrived is that we had such limited value in existing players. And we are still suffering in this regard. The best run club in the league - Liverpool - has benefitted from good stewardship and excellent transfer business for over a decade. Yet despite finishing second in 2013/14, it took 6 years for them to win the league.

Plus Arteta's brief was to make us challengers again...and he has never been able to recruit with an eye on selling players for good value.

If we want to compare our club with one that has faced similar challenges - then I would say that Manure is a more realistic choice. They are still looking for someone to lead them out of the post Ferguson wilderness, despite being one of the 3 biggest football clubs on the planet. Even Arteta's detractors will struggle to argue that silverware or no silverware, he has done much to restore Arsenal to the top table.

All of this is not Arteta arse-licking. But it's in my nature to push back on generalisations and absolutes. IMO at worst, Arteta has done a decent job since joining us. My instinct is that he might fall short of leading us to greatness - and this season will be the judge of that. But I stand by my opinion that he has done a better job than most alternatives might have been expected to do, and the fact that we expect him to win major silverware this season speaks to this.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Apparently we have today expressed an interest in Semenyo

[Marc Overmars]

Apparently we have today expressed an interest in Semenyo

He is better than Madueke and someone we should have signed instead quite frankly.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Apparently we have today expressed an interest in Semenyo

Hmmm I think he’d be an excellent player for us, but if we needed to free up money to sign Eze even more so with this guy

So I’m a tad skeptical of this rumour. Hopefully I'm wrong

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

IMO, as much as we need somebody capable on the left, it's more pressing we sort out our issues through the middle instead of allowing Odegaard's lukewarmness ruin our season once again.

After watching Madueke's defensive display against United, I'm pretty sure we've wasted money on him (if the left is where he'll be a mainstay).

Our next signing needs to definitely solve a problem and not add to it, as sorting out the center is the only way to unlock our striker, seeing as teams have sussed out that double teaming and stopping our wing play is the way to neutralise our attack.

[KSE Comedy Club]

He is better than Madueke and someone we should have signed instead quite frankly.

Yes I would be quite happy with getting him in

[KSE Comedy Club]

IMO, as much as we need somebody capable on the left, it's more pressing we sort out our issues through the middle instead of allowing Odegaard's lukewarmness to ruin our season once again.

After watching Madueke's defensive display against United, I'm pretty sure we've wasted money on him (if the left is where he'll be a mainstay).

Our next signing needs to definitely solve a problem and not add to it, as sorting out the center is the only way to unlock our striker, seeing as teams have sussed out that double teaming and stopping our wing play is the way to neutralise our attack.

Agreed.

We are so robotic with our attack, it's seems to have been ingrained into them to only play out to the wings and try for crosses or corners, whilst the middle and more direct play has been almost eradicated.

Even yesterday I think there was at least twice Ode got inside the 18 yard box and put the ball out to the wing instead of into the middle of the box :doh:

[Chippy]

Yes I would be quite happy with getting him in

We have given Arteta enough money. Save it for the new manager come January. Why the hell he bought Madueke is beyond me. Chelsea must have been laughing all the way to the bank. The jury is still out on Gyko and Zubimendi to see what they have for the Premier League.

[KSE Comedy Club]

We have given Arteta enough money. Save it for the new manager come January. Why the hell he bought Madueke is beyond me. Chelsea must have been laughing all the way to the bank. The jury is still out on Gyko and Zubimendi to see what they have for the Premier League.

Yes but sadly after spending a billion pound we are still missing a player or two in key areas.

Shocking I know, but here we are - again.

[Letters]

Yes but sadly after spending a billion pound we are still missing a player or two in key areas.

Shocking I know, but here we are - again.

We haven't spent a billion pounds. Net spend is a more honest measure and since Arteta arrived that is about 630m Euros.
Which is still a lot, but it's only the 4th highest net spend in the league. Utd and Chelsea way ahead of us - Spurs were ahead too although we might have leapfrogged them since this article.

https://www.planetfootball.com/arsenal/arsenal-premier-league-net-spend-since-mikel-arteta

[Mac76]

He is better than Madueke and someone we should have signed instead quite frankly.

100%, let's hope there's some truth in it

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

We haven't spent a billion pounds. Net spend is a more honest measure and since Arteta arrived that is about 630m Euros.
Which is still a lot, but it's only the 4th highest net spend in the league. Utd and Chelsea way ahead of us - Spurs were ahead too although we might have leapfrogged them since this article.

https://www.planetfootball.com/arsenal/arsenal-premier-league-net-spend-since-mikel-arteta

I strongly disagree.

Net spend in this case is definitely not more honest especially seeing that most of the players we've made money on since Arteta arrived had absolutely nothing to do with him.

They were either AW/Emery signings or mainly academy products. I mean this is a man who let Ozil, Auba and Pepe ( our record signing ) go for almost nothing. The big sales off my head are Balogun and Smith-Rowe and these were years in the making. All his marquee buys that have left or are leaving like Partey, Jesus, Zinchenko and Vieira, are or will be losses.

He has done a terrible job when it comes to adding realisable value and currently our 2 most valuable players, Saka and Saliba were recruited way before he came. Oh and just in case you want to include Rice, there is no way any team will buy Rice for more than £60m in the market we're in with his current salary. Just look at what Citeh and Man U have gone through trying to shift players like Grealish and Sancho of their books with their huge wages.

AFAIAC judging him by what he has spent is more than fair, especially when you consider that the the two teams ahead of him, Chelsea and United have had like 4 different mangers each or so to divide that sum by.

To even consider that someone has spent over €700m net spend exclusively to take us back to route one football and coming second , while there was a manager last year that spent practically F all to win the league while playing entertaining attacking football.... honestly, appraising any kind of spend is not an argument that can flatter Arteta in anyway, he has been terrible in this aspect and continues to be with signings like Madueke.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Honestly, I said it in a cloud of rage earlier, but have we truly been unable to make any profit on any player Arteta has recruited in these past 6 years?

Even players in their prime like Tavares and Ramsdale, I just rechecked and couldn't believe we still couldn't turn these into profitable sales.

[Chippy]

100%, let's hope there's some truth in it

Yep, but, we are still stuck with Madueke.
What was the actual point in buying him :rolleyes:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I strongly disagree.

Net spend in this case is definitely not more honest especially seeing that most of the players we've made money on since Arteta arrived had absolutely nothing to do with him.

They were either AW/Emery signings or mainly academy products. I mean this is a man who let Ozil, Auba and Pepe ( our record signing ) go for almost nothing. The big sales off my head are Balogun and Smith-Rowe and these were years in the making. All his marquee buys that have left or are leaving like Partey, Jesus, Zinchenko and Vieira, are or will be losses.

He has done a terrible job when it comes to adding realisable value and currently our 2 most valuable players, Saka and Saliba were recruited way before he came. Oh and just in case you want to include Rice, there is no way any team will buy Rice for more than £60m in the market we're in with his current salary. Just look at what Citeh and Man U have gone through trying to shift players like Grealish and Sancho of their books with their huge wages.

AFAIAC judging him by what he has spent is more than fair, especially when you consider that the the two teams ahead of him, Chelsea and United have had like 4 different mangers each or so to divide that sum by.

To even consider that someone has spent over €700m net spend exclusively to take us back to route one football and coming second , while there was a manager last year that spent practically F all to win the league while playing entertaining attacking football.... honestly, appraising any kind of spend is not an argument that can flatter Arteta in anyway, he has been terrible in this aspect and continues to be with signings like Madueke.

Route one football?

We don’t play route one football, be better if we did frankly

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Route one football?

We don’t play route one football, be better if we did frankly

Just wait a few games, that's where the evolution is going to.

[Marc Overmars]

Route one would be a damn sight more entertaining and effective than what we currently do, which is neither here nor there.

[KSE Comedy Club]

We haven't spent a billion pounds. Net spend is a more honest measure and since Arteta arrived that is about 630m Euros.
Which is still a lot, but it's only the 4th highest net spend in the league. Utd and Chelsea way ahead of us - Spurs were ahead too although we might have leapfrogged them since this article.

https://www.planetfootball.com/arsenal/arsenal-premier-league-net-spend-since-mikel-arteta

We have spent nearly a billion pounds - that is a fact.
What you recoup and your net spend doesn't change the fact that the initial outlay is a billion quid.
That is the marker by which you should judge, as that is the figure used to build the squad.

Net spend is what people use to make excuses.

Edit: just checked, we have spent 224.20m Euros this summer and sold no one so current net spend must be around 850m Euros

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that it is still loads spent and we are 1-2 players short.

But good attempt to deflect :good:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yep, but, we are still stuck with Madueke.
What was the actual point in buying him :rolleyes:

Tbf he shouldn't be played on the LW - this was an issue at Chelsea as he was terrible there - but Arteta seems to be clueless to that fact.

[Letters]

I strongly disagree.

Net spend in this case is definitely not more honest especially seeing that most of the players we've made money on since Arteta arrived had absolutely nothing to do with him.
Irrelevant. It doesn't matter who bought which players. The point is if you spend a billion on players and recoup nothing then you should be a billion pounds of talent better off. If you spend a billion and recoup 350m then you're only 650m better off. That's all a bit simplistic of course but the players who go out are completely relevant.


AFAIAC judging him by what he has spent is more than fair, especially when you consider that the the two teams ahead of him, Chelsea and United have had like 4 different mangers each or so to divide that sum by.
Also irrelevant for the same reason as above. It doesn't matter which manager bought or sold which player - actually these days is it even the manager who does that? The point is the club's net spend is a better metric of how much "better" you would expect a squad to be.

Like HCZ, I don't know what you're talking about with the route one football. That isn't what we play. Pretty much everyone on here laments how we fanny around at the back and move the ball forward far too slowly.

It's totally fair to judge where we are by how much we've spent, although I continue to believe net spend is the more relevant metric. And our wage bill is another. I think it's fair to argue that the ROI hasn't been that good. 1 FA Cup in 5 years isn't a great return. Although that's a little simplistic, we've had two serious title challenges. One was unexpected, the other we pushed City to the last day. Last year was disappointing, to say the least. The CL run was pretty good, the league form was patchy at best. I feel cautiously optimistic for this season. We were certianly poor on Sunday but we got the result. Obviously far too early to make any sensible comment about the season that has just started.
For me Arteta absolutely has to deliver a big trophy this season to survive.

[IBK]

We haven't spent a billion pounds. Net spend is a more honest measure and since Arteta arrived that is about 630m Euros.
Which is still a lot, but it's only the 4th highest net spend in the league. Utd and Chelsea way ahead of us - Spurs were ahead too although we might have leapfrogged them since this article.

https://www.planetfootball.com/arsenal/arsenal-premier-league-net-spend-since-mikel-arteta

This is what I've been trying to say...