Super Jack & Super Jack Related News

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

We need to get the praise in check. He's not world class and has yet to stamp his authority on that midfield position. He's not vital to that position or someone who we need to keep things ticking over. We've missed Rosicky's presence more and you see the difference when he's playing. If we lose Rosicky next year we'll need to buy a midfield maestro that can fill that gap because Jack, Cazorla and Arteta aren't enough.

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He (jack) might not be exactly vital just yet, but remember he's only 21 and has been bugged with injuries which have deprived him of action for most of his short professional career. I have no doubt that if he can overcome injuries and stay fit, he'll be the lynch pin of our team in very short order.

As for Rosicky, a player whom I've always highly rated, no one is questioning his directness in play (something which Jack is widely known for as well), but I'm sure there have been games where he also looked completely out of sorts and wasn't exactly causing things to tick in our midfield. Therefore, I won't place too much expectations on him till he can put together a consistent run of being a bit of a maestro in the middle of the park.

PS some folks can spot raw talent from a mile away, even before a player has fully honed and developed his abilities.

I unreservedly state that the only thing that can stop Jack being truly world class is injury. The kid has every attribute required to be a top level footballer.

Wilshere is being ridiculously overhyped. There is a great deal of promise with him, and occasionally we see flashes of what he is capable of. However at his stage of development, he should be an understudy, but there is no one at the Club to help him and aid his development. We have a real genuine talent, but are we equipped to help him fully realise it?

I don't think so.

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Originally Posted by BoringBoringArsenal

PS some folks can spot raw talent from a mile away, even before a player has fully honed and developed his abilities.

I unreservedly state that the only thing that can stop Jack being truly world class is injury. The kid has every attribute required to be a top level footballer.

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Joe Cole! He had raw talent and was hyped in much the same way Jack is now. Lord knows what happened to Cole but he was an exceptional technical player and most had high hopes for him but it just didn't pan out for him.

Raw talent isn't enough sometimes and Jack still has a lot to learn. This hasn't been Jack's Arsenal defining season and I hate the way the papers are trying to set it up that way. We lack world class talent, every player has been hit and miss, but it's been a group effort with streaks of good form from Cazorla, Theo, Pod, Kos, Merts, Giroud even Gervinho.

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Originally Posted by BoringBoringArsenal

PS some folks can spot raw talent from a mile away, even before a player has fully honed and developed his abilities.

I unreservedly state that the only thing that can stop Jack being truly world class is injury. The kid has every attribute required to be a top level footballer.

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Agreed, about talent being easy to spot. The naturally gifted players at our club? Wilshere, head and shoulders above the rest. Arshavin could be even better but he's decided against being a footballer. Ox, oozes talent but like Jack it has to be developed and directed. Then there's... hmmm... lemme see. Nobody else.

Rosicky, Podolski, Cazorla fall into the "almost" bracket. They are technically accomplished but they don't demonstrate the instinctive talent of the previous three. All very good players though. Gibbs might be edging in here, not as a defender but more advanced, wide.

Further down the line, players who have to work harder at it. Arteta, Chesney, Sagna, maybe this Monreal guy (he looks a pretty solid defender), I'm putting Ramsey here because he'll bust a gut in between the howlers and there are flashes of talent. Thinking hard now. Kos? Like Ramsey, a potential disaster zone but he can also be decent.

And then the dog shit. Either because they are wildly inconsistent to the point of being harmful, of because they are so technically gash or stupid they don't really deserve to be on a football pitch.

Giroud (fucking useless full stop), Diaby (kills us with his stupidity despite being technical), Walcott (Mr mouth himself), Gervinho (pointless player who can only deliver a final ball by accident), Mertesacker (so slow it's beyond belief), Vermaelen (mostly because he seems incapable of learning from mistakes), Flappy (tries but lets' face it, he's shit), and I probably missed a few out.

With an endless budget I'd keep Jack and Ox, maybe Cazorla and Podolski (Rosicky too injury prone). The rest I'd fuck out the door so fast they'd leave their shadows behind.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Joe Cole! He had raw talent and was hyped in much the same way Jack is now. Lord knows what happened to Cole but he was an exceptional technical player and most had high hopes for him but it just didn't pan out for him.

Raw talent isn't enough sometimes and Jack still has a lot to learn. This hasn't been Jack's Arsenal defining season and I hate the way the papers are trying to set it up that way. We lack world class talent, every player has been hit and miss, but it's been a group effort with streaks of good form from Cazorla, Theo, Pod, Kos, Merts, Giroud even Gervinho.

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Food for thought. Its a sign of where we are that papers and pundits thought that Jack's injury would bury our season.

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Rosicky, Podolski, Cazorla fall into the "almost" bracket. They are technically accomplished but they don't demonstrate the instinctive talent of the previous three. All very good players though. Gibbs might be edging in here, not as a defender but more advanced, wide.

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Get the fuck out of here! :lol:

Jack and Ox haven't done shit to be mentioned above these three. Past or present. How can you that haven't demonstrated instinctive talent this season, especially when compared to the two players you hold them against. We've hardly missed Jack and Ox this season.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Get the fuck out of here! :lol:

Jack and Ox haven't done shit to be mentioned above these three. Past or present.

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I'm talking about talent, not what they have done. The person I was responding mentioned it's easy to spot talent, and it is.

If we're talking strictly about talent, it's pretty insane to put anyone above Cazorla.

Never mind when we talk about putting into practice.

And Arshavin has always been too technically ragged to be up there.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I'm talking about talent, not what they have done. The person I was responding mentioned it's easy to spot talent, and it is.

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And Rosicky wasn't a talent when he was Jack's age? Or Pod wasn't touted as a dangerous German talent when younger? As said, they are all technically gifted players and all have talent. After that it gets done to the 'demonstrated' part you mentioned and that boils down to performance on the pitch. I don't know how you can put those three below Jack on Ox when neither can hit a pass or shot as well as these guys or turn a game around like they can. It's too much hype and they've yet to prove it.

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Originally Posted by GB.

Wilshere is being ridiculously overhyped. There is a great deal of promise with him, and occasionally we see flashes of what he is capable of. However at his stage of development, he should be an understudy, but there is no one at the Club to help him and aid his development. We have a real genuine talent, but are we equipped to help him fully realise it?

I don't think so.

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Should he be an understudy? The best way of fulfilling that promise is giving opportunities to play. He was overused in his first season but that was because he played so well. I don't think he is quite the Fabregas-level precocious talent but at the same time 'flashes' is underselling his season and a half in the first team by quite a bit. Your point about no one being there to aid his development (in terms of playing staff) is fair. That's why Wenger wanted to keep Cesc for another season which would have been really good to watch, though in any case Wilshere was dead last year.

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Originally Posted by Master Splinter

If we're talking strictly about talent, it's pretty insane to put anyone above Cazorla.

Never mind when we talk about putting into practice.

And Arshavin has always been too technically ragged to be up there.

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Insane indeed. The guys two footed! That alone puts him heads and shoulders above the pack.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

And Rosicky wasn't a talent when he was Jack's age? Or Pod wasn't touted as a dangerous German talent when younger? As said, they are all technically gifted players and all have talent. After that it gets done to the 'demonstrated' part you mentioned and that boils down to performance on the pitch. I don't know how you can put those three below Jack on Ox when neither can hit a pass or shot as well as these guys or turn a game around like they can. It's too much hype and they've yet to prove it.

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What bearing does Podolski being touted as a dangerous German talent when he was younger have on our club right now? We're having two different discussions here, or else you just aren't reading anything I type.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

you just aren't reading anything I type.

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Tbf, none of us do.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

What bearing does Podolski being touted as a dangerous German talent when he was younger have on our club right now? We're having two different discussions here, or else you just aren't reading anything I type.

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It's linked to what I said about Joe Cole earlier and talent in general. You can see raw talent in players from an early age but you can't assume they will go on to greater things when so young. When Pod was younger, he was expected to go on to achieve great things, similar to the way people are already holding up Jack. It was the same for Rosicky. It's warning for those writing Jack's history even though he's hardly played.

Jack isn't so young, is he? I think we are past that lamp post where we're 2nd guessing if he's just raw talent and if he'll come good.

The boy can play, and will come better than every other player in our team currently, providing he doesn't turn into a crock. The names that are being brought up are all at least 6 or more years older than him and have basically all plateaued at a level below what can be described as world class.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

It's linked to what I said about Joe Cole earlier and talent in general. You can see raw talent in players from an early age but you can't assume they will go on to greater things when so young. When Pod was younger, he was expected to go on to achieve great things, similar to the way people are already holding up Jack. It was the same for Rosicky. It's warning for those writing Jack's history even though he's hardly played.

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Okay, fine, but I'm not guaranteeing he'll go on and do anything. What I'm saying is Wilshere and Ox would be the two players I'd hang on to above all others. Both are gifted, both already playing at a high level and both with bags of raw talent and potential. Jack's a born leader too. Good players with plenty of years ahead of them (barring injury). Good ingredients for any team. Keep Pods and Cazorla next and stick a gun in Kroenke's face and tell him to hand over the cash then go and build out the team. Play with a bit of style, win something.

Or sell Jack and Ox for big bucks and sign Titus Bramble.

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Originally Posted by BoringBoringArsenal

Jack isn't so young, is he? I think we are past that lamp post where we're 2nd guessing if he's just raw talent and if he'll come good.

The boy can play, and will come better than every other player in our team currently, providing he doesn't turn into a crock. The names that are being brought up are all at least 6 or more years older than him and have basically all plateaued at a level below what can be described as world class.

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And I'm saying we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves because that could also happen to Jack. You get players that sometimes just fall off the radar after loads of promise. I already mentioned Joe Cole, Nasri looks close to that, Anelka, Reyes (I had serious high hopes for him).....we have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Joe Cole! He had raw talent and was hyped in much the same way Jack is now. Lord knows what happened to Cole but he was an exceptional technical player and most had high hopes for him but it just didn't pan out for him.

Raw talent isn't enough sometimes and Jack still has a lot to learn. This hasn't been Jack's Arsenal defining season and I hate the way the papers are trying to set it up that way. We lack world class talent, every player has been hit and miss, but it's been a group effort with streaks of good form from Cazorla, Theo, Pod, Kos, Merts, Giroud even Gervinho.

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cole was in a very similar position to wilshere right now, although more so for the national team than expected to perform at club level.

mourinho ruined cole. joe was so desperate to prove he was more than a few tricks and flicks he lost all of that for the sake of team ethic and became a workhorse. for different reasons, jack could fall danger to the same thing. what has stood out more than anything else about this season is his work ethic and desire to give his all for the team, more than the eye for a final ball or finished product. there is plenty of time to ensure all of that ability isn't lost but if we keep treading water as a club as we currently are and being so overdependent on the boy, then he could become just an excellent workhorse, which would be a crying shame.

I never thought Cole was all that and whilst I think Wilshere is good I also think he's currently one of the most overrated players around......he's nowhere near as good as some people seem to think, he's young and has time but to date has done little on the pitch.

Don't get me wrong, I think he has talent and I'm happy we have him, it's just that some people seem to think he's the English Messi, he's done nothing to suggest that.

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Originally Posted by Arse n Wonga

it's just that some people seem to think he's the English Messi

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Literally no-one thinks that.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Literally no-one thinks that.

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Indeed. There is only one player on these shores that gets mentioned in the same breath so often. Or one monkey should I say.

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

cole was in a very similar position to wilshere right now, although more so for the national team than expected to perform at club level.

mourinho ruined cole. joe was so desperate to prove he was more than a few tricks and flicks he lost all of that for the sake of team ethic and became a workhorse. for different reasons, jack could fall danger to the same thing. what has stood out more than anything else about this season is his work ethic and desire to give his all for the team, more than the eye for a final ball or finished product. there is plenty of time to ensure all of that ability isn't lost but if we keep treading water as a club as we currently are and being so overdependent on the boy, then he could become just an excellent workhorse, which would be a crying shame.

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The Chelsea years didn't help Cole and all those years under Mourinho sucked a lot of his natural game out of him. He wasn't a winger and eventually he became a player without a position. He wasn't allowed the freedom to express himself and now he's a mess of a player.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Literally no-one thinks that.

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It was an exageration but you get the point, he's hype to ridiculous levels at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Arse n Wonga

It was an exageration but you get the point, he's hype to ridiculous levels at the moment.

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Is he? I don't think so. Not like Walcott was. But he's showed some promise and seems to 'get' what playing for The Arsenal is about.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Is he? I don't think so. Not like Walcott was. But he's showed some promise and seems to 'get' what playing for The Arsenal is about.

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Definitely yes.

He's not really done that much on the pitch and quite often runs into players rather than releasing the ball to someone else, people blame that on the lack of quality around him, I'd say it's due more to lack of awareness at this stage.

Sure he seems to fight on the pitch etc, but young players tend to when they first start off especially if they've come through a clubs youth system. If he does become world class, we'll see if he sticks around if we're still where we are now and big clubs come knocking, not many players do these days and it's hard to say if he'll be any different at this stage.

Who has over-hyped him?

The media and there's certainly some hype on here as well.

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Originally Posted by Arse n Wonga

The media and there's certainly some hype on here as well.

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Obviously he's young and English so will receive more hype than he probably should. Has it really been over the top though?

Links to examples?

You don’t have to look far to see the overhype. The story from GG on this thread which has kicked everything off is enough. He’s not a world class player yet, he hasn’t had a fantastic season yet he’s getting plaudits over players who contributed more for us this season. The Theo hype was high but this is bigger because he’s labelled as the saviour of Arsenal and England. Nobody put England or Arsenal’s future on Walcott’s shoulder and talk as if he was key to our success or England’s. That’s what’s happening with Jack at this moment.

I think it has considering he's done little on the pitch, plenty of pundits have commented on how big a miss he is for England etc:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...coigne-england

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...schweinsteiger

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...ne-Rooney.html

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/13...a-blow?cc=5739

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...lshere-burnout

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/...t-arsenal-says

:lol: OK, fair enough. I only looked at the first 2 but they made the point, they are a bit over the top.

He'll be great one day, but right now I don't even think he's the best midfielder at Arsenal let alone the rest of the league.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

He'll be sold one day, but right now I don't even think he's the best midfielder at Arsenal let alone the rest of the league.

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efa

In a team brimming with shit it seems odd to be focusing on Wilshere. Who gives a fuck what the media says - their job is to hype everything. What we seem to be saying is Jack is not as good as the media have hyped him to be. What a pointless argument. It's good enough that he's a good young player, loves the club, signed his contract without everyone having to bend over, is often the only player you'll see fronting up to the opposition when the rest have gone into hiding, and so on. Is there any player in the team that brings so much overall? Of course not. Think on it this way, if we didn't have Jack we'd have to call a lower league kid who's just arrived "Mr Arsenal", that's how fucked up things have become at this club.

As I said before, his natural ablilities makes him a stand out on the pitch, especially when he's had a good game. It is not hard to see that he's not the average or just a good player.

Even after the England/Brazil game, he was the player who the Brazilians were impressed by - so much so that, that **** Alves heaped him praise and said he needs to be at Barca.

There are also other examples where he stands out above every other player. That's part of the measure of a quality player. He just needs to iron out a few kinks and find a way to stay fit, as a kid his age, with such immense talent, needs to be playing as much footie as possible in order to fine tune and master his craft.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

In a team brimming with shit it seems odd to be focusing on Wilshere. Who gives a fuck what the media says - their job is to hype everything. What we seem to be saying is Jack is not as good as the media have hyped him to be. What a pointless argument. It's good enough that he's a good young player, loves the club, signed his contract without everyone having to bend over, is often the only player you'll see fronting up to the opposition when the rest have gone into hiding, and so on. Is there any player in the team that brings so much overall? Of course not. Think on it this way, if we didn't have Jack we'd have to call a lower league kid who's just arrived "Mr Arsenal", that's how fucked up things have become at this club.

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It's not just the media though is it, it's his own fans/manager as well.

I appreciate he works hard and tries and does do some good things, but he has far less influence on a game than say Cesc had at his age, that's not a criticism it's just a point to put his talent/productivity in context.

Good player with some decent skills at his age, yes, world beater, bit early to predict something like that.

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Originally Posted by BoringBoringArsenal

As I said before, his natural ablilities makes him a stand out on the pitch, especially when he's had a good game. It is not hard to see that he's not the average or just a good player.

Even after the England/Brazil game, he was the player who the Brazilians were impressed by - so much so that, that **** Alves heaped him praise and said he needs to be at Barca.

There are also other examples where he stands out above every other player. That's part of the measure of a quality player. He just needs to iron out a few kinks and find a way to stay fit, as a kid his age, with such immense talent, needs to be playing as much footie as possible in order to fine tune and master his craft.

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With all due respect, this is the worst Brazil team in 20 years, with a horrendous defence in a friendly it's not exactly a pressure situation where every player is giving it his all. Sure they liked him, Brazilians like players who try to dribble and are offensive, he fits the mould.

He has ability yes, but he doesn't dictate games or win games at the moment, the odd nice touch and good run and a good work rate, but he's not a playmaker.

As someone has said, he's not even our best midfielder at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Arse n Wonga

With all due respect, this is the worst Brazil team in 20 years, with a horrendous defence in a friendly it's not exactly a pressure situation where every player is giving it his all. Sure they liked him, Brazilians like players who try to dribble and are offensive, he fits the mould.

He has ability yes, but he doesn't dictate games or win games at the moment, the odd nice tough and good run and a good work rate, but he's not a playmaker.

As someone has said, he's not even our best midfielder at the moment.

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That's why I say he needs to stay fit so he can play more games over a few seasons and properly master his craft.

And what that someone said is pretty much their opinion which I don't particularly have to subscribe to. All our midfielders have had woeful games. Take Santi for example, he's never stood out on a rough night has he? Especially against opposition of note. People mention Rosicky, but he's had more than his fair share of howlers, right? Is there any other worth mentioning?


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As shit as Brazil have become they are still highly respected and feared in everything football, and as big a **** as Alves is, he's still a bit qualified realise top talent.

He really isn't a playmaker. Not yet anyway. Maybe that will develop but I haven't seen many occassions where he's spotted a run or played a pass to perfection. He has moments but it's not that often. I think I was more impressed with Wilshere when he played as a winger. He would just glide pass opponents with ease. He was so good outwide I just couldn't imagine him doing much better in the middle because it's more of a passing game and he's so direct.