I don't think it has anything to do with the players he has around him at this point. I don't expect a massive improvement over a short period of time. It's only been a year. Over time, the quality of players around will be a benefit but it's also worth remembering that Theo has been played as winger with nobody to learn from when he's been used to playing as a striker.Originally Posted by GB.
I made more than one point on Ox, you've picked up on the one point that you originally misunderstood and decided to run with that ignoring the other theories. I think it is a combination of my original points, but you cannot deny that Theo was learning in a much more favourable environment than Ox.
No, as I said, it's a similar story for Theo. He came as striker and was learning to play as winger when players like Eboue, Hleb, Nasri and Rosicky featured on the flanks. None of them were natural wingers or could teach Theo a thing about playing as winger with pace. Eboue was probably the closest we had at beating players and using his pace but his end product was awful, so not the greatest example.
Theo was plagued with injuries. He had two serious ops on his shoulders early on. Pressure....he was picked for England before he was an Arsenal regular and hailed as the English wonderkid like Rooney.
That answers the rest of your post so I'm not ignoring the rest. It's a similar story. But Theo has gotten a lot better over the years. The original point was regarding players lacking confidence and how we seem to sucking it away from the players. OX was one of them. Brimming with confidence when he first arrived but not so now.
It's funny how you get defensive after throwing the first uncalled for shot. Maybe we can stay on topic next time.
theo had henry to learn from for a year and a half. how to attack the wing and come in off it. he had pires for a bit, ljunberg too. much better quality to learn from then, ox who had rosicky, theo and thats it last yearNo, as I said, it's a similar story for Theo. He came as striker and was learning to play as winger when players like Eboue, Hleb, Nasri and Rosicky featured on the flanks. None of them were natural wingers or could teach Theo a thing about playing as winger with pace. Eboue was probably the closest we had at beating players and using his pace but his end product was awful, so not the greatest example.
Theo was plagued with injuries. He had two serious ops on his shoulders early on. Pressure....he was picked for England before he was an Arsenal regular and hailed as the English wonderkid like Rooney.
That answers the rest of your post so I'm not ignoring the rest. It's a similar story. But Theo has gotten a lot better over the years. The original point was regarding players lacking confidence and how we seem to sucking it away from the players. OX was one of them. Brimming with confidence when he first arrived but not so now.
It's funny how you get defensive after throwing the first uncalled for shot. Maybe we can stay on topic next time.
Do you really think it takes a year or so of training will do the trick? By that standard a whole host of players should been better or mach2 versions of Henry, Pires, Vieira and co. Training with players for year doesn't mean you'll inherit their talent. Clichy, Toure, Eboue, Senderos, Adebayor, Reyes, Hleb...all trained some fantastic players but never reached the heights of their seniors. I would have thought the defenders wouldn't have benefitted more from training against a great attacking side but it has not happened.
Last edited by Power n Glory; 21-02-2013 at 11:34 PM.
I've not been defensive in the slightest and can't be held responsible for you misunderstanding a post and then being selective in isolating that aspect of a post to run with and getting it so wrong.No, as I said, it's a similar story for Theo. He came as striker and was learning to play as winger when players like Eboue, Hleb, Nasri and Rosicky featured on the flanks. None of them were natural wingers or could teach Theo a thing about playing as winger with pace. Eboue was probably the closest we had at beating players and using his pace but his end product was awful, so not the greatest example.
Theo was plagued with injuries. He had two serious ops on his shoulders early on. Pressure....he was picked for England before he was an Arsenal regular and hailed as the English wonderkid like Rooney.
That answers the rest of your post so I'm not ignoring the rest. It's a similar story. But Theo has gotten a lot better over the years. The original point was regarding players lacking confidence and how we seem to sucking it away from the players. OX was one of them. Brimming with confidence when he first arrived but not so now.
It's funny how you get defensive after throwing the first uncalled for shot. Maybe we can stay on topic next time.
You have been Theo's biggest apologist and for you to then harp on about Ox is a bit rich. The environments that Theo and Ox have had to develop in are incomparable. I'm surprised that even you would try to suggest otherwise.
There you go again, sniping away.
It was a simple 'What the heck happened to Ox' statement. I've answered your questions and linked it back to the original argument now move and stop bitching because this isn't a Theo vs Ox discussion.
And I think it is a bit rich of you - just like it is a bit rich of you to ask anybody to stay on any given topic.There you go again, sniping away.
It was a simple 'What the heck happened to Ox' statement. I've answered your questions and linked it back to the original argument now move and stop bitching because this isn't a Theo vs Ox discussion.
The only substantive answer in this exchange was when I answered you in relation to what is going wrong with AOC. I agree he is disappointing this season, but there are many reasons for this. The principle one as I see it is the environment he is in, at the age he is, having been found out and with no one who provides the motivation he or this team needs to suceed.
As things stand, I don't see how he can develop. I have no Theo v Ox agenda, I just find it strange that someone who has been an agressive Theo advocate, lacks such conviction when it comes to another player who is going through a similar situation in a much much harsher environment.
On the one hand any Theo advocate would be smart enough not to make the dumb suggestions that oxlaide would *overtake* theo next season because theo stalled under wenger... on the other hand, well there isnt one really. This Wenger cant develop players bullshit is just born out of the laser focus we have on players far from their prime. Oxlaide is about 10 years from really becoming the best he can be, chill the fuck out.
Dude, how can you think a simple 'what the heck has happened to Ox' comment is 'a bit rich' when you put it in context of SWAYR post?
You've answered what you think went wrong and I agree with some points because it was a similar experience for Theo. You could have answered the original post with an explanation without the sniping and wumming. It would have been a better conversation if we're talking about player development and confidence instead of bitching.
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