Match Reaction Arsenal vs United

[Özim]

Depends what you mean by 'nothing to show'.

If your only criteria for success is silverware (which I would suggest is far too simplistic) then we may well end up with 'nothing to show' from the season.
If we collapse and end up with similar points to last season then I'll agree that there will not have been as much progress as it seemed, if any. That can only be determined at the end of the season though. Right now we're only 1 point off the top so you're scratching around for something to moan about so you're complaining about future events.

Let's see where we are in May. So far we've been far more competitive than last year, we've been winning games that last year we'd have dropped points in, the defence is looking more solid (two freakish games accepted) and we've made our most ambitious signing arguably since Bergkamp. There are reasons for hope. I don't expect us to win the league but that should never have been the criteria for success this year.

Ultimately, for a big club that's the criteria, it's about winning not coming 2nd all the time. The problem with the progress you're suggesting is in doesn't help us at all in the near future, just because we have a few more points this season it doesn't mean we'll do better next season, as demonstrated when we were right up there in 2008. Moreover points are one thing, but until we beat the best teams, I just don't ever see us winning anything and that for me would be more progress than a simple points increase because psychologically the difference would be huge.

In May we'll be where we always are, in the top 4, having failed to beat the top teams with some fans saying let's see how he does in the summer, then the cycle will begin against and continue for the following seasons until AW eventually leaves and we have a manager with a great focus on winning.

There is no more "1 more season" for Wenger, people have been saying this for years and none of his promises have ever come to fruition and they never will because he'll never change the way he does things.

[Özim]

That is true but they've also shown greater capability in dropping points against the bottom half teams, hence why we're so close. If you can get your players to get over the disappointment of losing those big games (which is tough to keep doing granted) then in theory then it makes no difference.

Maybe they have and that's why this year has been our best chance (and will be for the foreseeable future), we could have given ourselves a great chance had we invested in a striker either last summer or in January, we didn't and we're now beginning to see the usual cracks appearing right about the same time they always do and with the run we have coming up I can only see one outcome, lacklustre tired looking performances, injuries, defeats, draws and the capitulation we've grown accustomed to over the years.

[Letters]

Ultimately, for a big club that's the criteria, it's about winning not coming 2nd all the time.

Agreed, but if we came 2nd that would be an improvement. It's heading in the right direction.

The problem with the progress you're suggesting is in doesn't help us at all in the near future.

Of course it does. If we're closer to the title this year than the last 2 seasons when we weren't anywhere near the race then it's progress, it's something to build on. Whether we will build on that...well, that remains to be seen and I agree there have been false dawns before but, again, there's no point in moaning about future events. There are a few reasons for hope which I've mentioned. Right now we're heading in the right direction, we can either be pleased about that and hope it continues or be all Eeyore and expect the worst.

Agreed about the psychological thing with the top teams, we need to sort that out.

[Özim]

Agreed, but if we came 2nd that would be an improvement. It's heading in the right direction.


Of course it does. If we're closer to the title this year than the last 2 seasons when we weren't anywhere near the race then it's progress, it's something to build on. Whether we will build on that...well, that remains to be seen and I agree there have been false dawns before but, again, there's no point in moaning about future events. There are a few reasons for hope which I've mentioned. Right now we're heading in the right direction, we can either be pleased about that and hope it continues or be all Eeyore and expect the worst.

Agreed about the psychological thing with the top teams, we need to sort that out.

I'm not sure it does, the other teams have faltered this season, most likely because of both having new managers who don't have their teams setup as they want them yet, next season you should seem them being stronger as the manager's tactics/style start to make more of an impact and as the teams they have are more as they would want them. Us getting 2nd or 3rd this season would offer no guarantee we'd be stronger for next season (again look at us in 2008 and the following seasons) where the other teams are more settled, winning makes you a better side as it gives you self belief, until we actually win something doubts will linger in the players minds.

The massive change for me would been to have seen us changing our transfer policy and/or beating the top sides, points totals aren't a good enough indicator IMO because every season is affected by many different factors, injuries, new managers, signings, cup draws, for me just because we have more points I wouldn't be confident about expecting more next season.

Without a shift in the manager's ideals/methodology we can't move forward unless we change manager.

[Globalgunner]

A manager who avoids buying a top striker, when he needs him, has the money, and has nothing else to do with the money, is not serious about his desires.
Either or both of 2 things should drive a manager to succeed, a) the desire to win things, b) the fear of failure. In Wenger's case he has neither of these things, hence our stagnation.

We bought Ozil, but in truth, he wasn't what we needed. Glad hes here though, but for how long?

Juat reading Mourinho`s comments on Wenger. LOOOOL at me

[Letters]

I'm not sure it does, the other teams have faltered this season, most likely because of both having new managers who don't have their teams setup as they want them yet.

City have one more point than at this stage last season, Chelsea have 8 more points than at this stage last year.
Yes, they might be better next year but surely the better we are this year the more chance we have to build on that.

Us getting 2nd or 3rd this season would offer no guarantee we'd be stronger for next season

No, of course not. But what would you prefer, another limp into 4th place on the last day? You just said Chelsea and City would be stronger next year, if we were well off the pace this year we'd have even less chance next.

FFS man, when are you ever happy? We've scraped into 4th the last two years, this year we're seriously in the title race and that's still not good enough.
The Ozil signing DID show a new ambition, it would have been nice to augment that in January but it's a start. We now have new sponsorship deals in place which should allow us to compete more seriously. It's always going to be difficult against teams with effectively infinite resources but it gives us a bit more of a chance.

We're exceeding your pre-season expectations so far and you're still not happy

[Özim]

City have one more point than at this stage last season, Chelsea have 8 more points than at this stage last year.
Yes, they might be better next year but surely the better we are this year the more chance we have to build on that.

No, of course not. But what would you prefer, another limp into 4th place on the last day? You just said Chelsea and City would be stronger next year, if we were well off the pace this year we'd have even less chance next.

FFS man, when are you ever happy? We've scraped into 4th the last two years, this year we're seriously in the title race and that's still not good enough.
The Ozil signing DID show a new ambition, it would have been nice to augment that in January but it's a start. We now have new sponsorship deals in place which should allow us to compete more seriously. It's always going to be difficult against teams with effectively infinite resources but it gives us a bit more of a chance.

We're exceeding your pre-season expectations so far and you're still not happy

Seeing us beat some of the big sides would suffice for me, or going out and actually signing the players we need. Seeing us getting more points only to fail where we have always failed before (in February March and by losing to the top sides), feels like we're never actually changing the fundamental problems at the club which will stop us ever winning anything.

If you want people to believe you need to show them that things really have changed, as for exceeding expectations, we shouldn't be, we're only exceeding them due to people having lowered expectations as a consequence of previous seasons and lack of investment in the team.

[Letters]

Expectations can only reasonably be based on the previous season, yes we're a top club and ultimately we want to be competing at the very top level but if we just limped into the top 4 two years in a row then clearly a title challenge is a welcome surprise and shows we may be heading in the right direction.
Of course we have to maintain that but, for now, there's some cause for hope.
Agree about beating the big sides though, we seem to have a real mental block there.

[Niall_Quinn]

I can cover his moaning from around 8pm onwards if you want a break.

[Özim]

I can cover his moaning from around 8pm onwards if you want a break.

Sounds good but how will you whine about refs, Mourinho, City and the FA if you're busy doing that?