Match reaction vs. Everton

[Power n Glory]

What the hell?

I was saying the football we used to play was at a level higher than we've seen since. Is anyone genuinely going to argue this is not the case? Because the game has changed in such negative ways. I'm not saying certain teams aren't capable of playing good football - nowhere did I say that. I'm also not claiming we are playing good football now, we aren't. What I'm saying is the modern game is negative, less entertaining, probably because so much is at stake financially. Although I think Maureen actually enjoys the shite he serves up.

And mods - if you are going to remove my posts then please remove the post by the twat who prompted my response. Hopefully you're not asking me to reply politely to twattish messages, because that will never happen. If boys who think they are big want to play then let everyone else play.

You said there wasn’t a manager anywhere that had produced the football we had in the past. That’s a little warped. We played at a higher level in the Premier League against the standard 4-4-2, ‘hoof and hope’ football with hopeless managers like Allardyce in charge but we could never produce the same results in the Champions League during those years. You can’t blame negative tactics because Utd were an attacking team and the same goes for Man City’s team. The modern game isn’t negative especially when players like Ronaldo and Messi are racking up crazy goal numbers. If you watched followed a different team other than Arsenal, you’d probably feel different.

[Dein-machine]

You're being one dimensional. I don't judge anything over one game. My argument has never been we've been playing good football this season. We haven't. But there's an idea going around the "modern" game has passed Wenger by. Maybe it has. All I'm saying is it's a shame because the modern game is shite. Now as to you trying to put words in my mouth, let me be clear - no, I didn't think the game yesterday was fabulous. Maybe a few on here desperate to slag the club at all costs took a perverse pleasure in the nature of the result, if not the result itself, but not me.

I doubt the fans of Liverpool, Man city, Southampton & Everton believe the modern game is shit - its you opinion, fair enough but it was only last year when we were drooling at the performances of Dormund & Bayern against the Spanish big boys, only 2 weeks ago when I watched a fantastic El Classico where the game was played with pace & movement - we have teams like Liverpool & City breaking scoring records, Ronaldo & Messy breaking all-time scoring records in the Spanish league & Champions league.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes that's what I said. Not sure where warped comes into it. We didn't play 4-4-2, we played much more freely than that. Sometimes we were a 4-4-2. Of course the wonderfully watchable 4-4-2 was one of the first victims of the modern clamp down. But enough of going with your drift away from the main argument. The modern game has passed Wenger by - discuss. 17 years in the top 4 so obviously no, this claim is entirely wrong, although I'm sure you are prepared to argue it to death anyway in spite of the evidence. One such argument could be that every manager bar those who have finished above us in prior seasons has been passed by the modern game. Okay, a stretch but maybe that's it. End of that argument then. You win.

Pure Wenger bashing as always. Incompetent fool, sacrificing the team to prove he is right, stealing from the club, etc, etc, etc. We can never seem to roll things back to a middle ground where it's possible for Wenger to be, say, 93% responsible, or 74% responsible. He always has to be 100% responsible, 100% incompetent, 100% a thief.

And then when you point out the extreme bias everyone dives in and says you are 100% happy with the way everything is going. It's as knee-jerking as the post match reactions themselves. Yay - we can win this. Fuck - Wenger out. Yay - great result, well played lads! Shit - Wenger was 100% responsible for that! Wenger out! Players did us proud! Wenger let us down!

Finances passed him by. Fact is, we don't actually know why Ox was on the bench yesterday. But we do know (taking into account Ramsey's fitness levels) he was about the only player we could bring on to influence anything. Squad's threadbare. Characters are missing. leaders are missing. Most of them jumped ship. Let's talk about realistic stuff. It's just silly to claim the manager who sits in 4th spot hasn't got a clue or has been passed by, so dump that stupidity. But it's legit to talk about the players he has bought with the funds we've had available because some of them don't seem to have a spine and that's partly the manager's fault and surely partly the player's fault? But I see free passes being handed out again.

[Power n Glory]

There comes a time for everyone, even Wenger, when pigheaded goes out the window because you have to rescue a serious situation. It's inconceivable a professional would sit there and take hammering after hammering and think any minute now it will all change. It's not a reasonable or realistic theory to be putting forward. I really don't see why the players get such an easy ride, barring the usual targets who are no worse than the rest. Arteta being a prime example. Questions need to be asked about the desire of some of these guys. Like Cazorla and Podolski who routinely throw their full backs under the bus. Or Giroud when the ball doesn't arrive fast enough so he gives up on trying to find the run or the space and just stands there like a lemon. Or Monreal when time and again he leaves the space and gets badly exposed and doesn't have the pace to compensate. Does he not see things happening on the pitch at all? And Rosicky when he has space, looks up, find his man, and passes to the opposition. Or Sagna when he has time to put the cross in and balloons it. There's a fair degree of panic on display from this lot when teams come to close us down. They lack composure and yet supposedly this is the sort of stuff we practise on the training ground over and over. How many times has our passing gone to hell this season? Passing used to be the one thing we could manage with some degree of proficiency. If the argument is Wenger refuses to change you have to then assume he's using the same methods to train the players. And if he's using the same methods and up until recently we could pass a ball, then what's up with this lot? You can say yes, Wenger signed them, so he takes responsibility for that. But what about the responsibility a player should take for not being able to pass the ball 5 yards? We don't play the same tactics every game either - that's just one of those cosy little criticisms that doesn't hold up if you watch the games. Sometimes we press, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we play high, sometimes we don't. Now if you're saying we seem to vary it in the wrong way for the given opponent, it does seem to be that way at least some of the time. Other times we get it spot on though.

How many times can you blame the players? We’ve seen the same sort of collapse under every single captain since leaving Highbury. All different players and they all seem to have this confidence problem where they forget how to play for some reason. Are you saying we’re that unlucky? You soon have to start looking at the manager and questioning his methods when it keeps happen under multiple teams. If you look back at the 2008 collapse, only Flamini, Rosicky and Walcott were present in that team from this current crop. We’ve had a complete makeover in personnel. It does seem inconceivable that a professional would sit there and take hammering after hammering but it happens and it happens quite often with Wenger. Why not make a few changes if it’s the players fault?

Tell me what you saw tactically different to what we saw against Chelsea? We haven’t pressed teams in months and we’ve been playing a dangerous highline for a while now. The team selection has practically been the same and teams have won by hitting us on the break after losing possession high up the pitch.

[Power n Glory]

Yes that's what I said. Not sure where warped comes into it. We didn't play 4-4-2, we played much more freely than that. Sometimes we were a 4-4-2. Of course the wonderfully watchable 4-4-2 was one of the first victims of the modern clamp down. But enough of going with your drift away from the main argument. The modern game has passed Wenger by - discuss. 17 years in the top 4 so obviously no, this claim is entirely wrong, although I'm sure you are prepared to argue it to death anyway in spite of the evidence. One such argument could be that every manager bar those who have finished above us in prior seasons has been passed by the modern game. Okay, a stretch but maybe that's it. End of that argument then. You win.

Pure Wenger bashing as always. Incompetent fool, sacrificing the team to prove he is right, stealing from the club, etc, etc, etc. We can never seem to roll things back to a middle ground where it's possible for Wenger to be, say, 93% responsible, or 74% responsible. He always has to be 100% responsible, 100% incompetent, 100% a thief.

And then when you point out the extreme bias everyone dives in and says you are 100% happy with the way everything is going. It's as knee-jerking as the post match reactions themselves. Yay - we can win this. Fuck - Wenger out. Yay - great result, well played lads! Shit - Wenger was 100% responsible for that! Wenger out! Players did us proud! Wenger let us down!

Finances passed him by. Fact is, we don't actually know why Ox was on the bench yesterday. But we do know (taking into account Ramsey's fitness levels) he was about the only player we could bring on to influence anything. Squad's threadbare. Characters are missing. leaders are missing. Most of them jumped ship. Let's talk about realistic stuff. It's just silly to claim the manager who sits in 4th spot hasn't got a clue or has been passed by, so dump that stupidity. But it's legit to talk about the players he has bought with the funds we've had available because some of them don't seem to have a spine and that's partly the manager's fault and surely partly the player's fault? But I see free passes being handed out again.

Tedious. Fuck off, NQ.

[Niall_Quinn]

Tedious. Fuck off, NQ.

I see what you did there. You walked right into the absolutism trap and proved my point in your previous response, realised it so followed up with "Fuck off!" So now instead of the high ground you have a high horse. And off you ride. Bye then.

[Niall_Quinn]

How many times can you blame the players? We’ve seen the same sort of collapse under every single captain since leaving Highbury. All different players and they all seem to have this confidence problem where they forget how to play for some reason. Are you saying we’re that unlucky? You soon have to start looking at the manager and questioning his methods when it keeps happen under multiple teams. If you look back at the 2008 collapse, only Flamini, Rosicky and Walcott were present in that team from this current crop. We’ve had a complete makeover in personnel. It does seem inconceivable that a professional would sit there and take hammering after hammering but it happens and it happens quite often with Wenger. Why not make a few changes if it’s the players fault?

Tell me what you saw tactically different to what we saw against Chelsea? We haven’t pressed teams in months and we’ve been playing a dangerous highline for a while now. The team selection has practically been the same and teams have won by hitting us on the break after losing possession high up the pitch.

Spuds match - not pretty but different for sure. Admittedly these are just facts.

[Power n Glory]

I see what you did there. You walked right into the absolutism trap and proved my point in your previous response, realised it so followed up with "Fuck off!" So now instead of the high ground you have a high horse. And off you ride. Bye then.

You talk absolute bollocks, mate! What the heck has happened to you. There is no debate to had because you are warped! Any response made is only served up with more long winded drivel from a moron who thinks football hasn't progressed over the last 20 years. That's idiotic! It's a huge waste of my time.

[Dein-machine]

When I look at recent performances the only players I would like to see starting in the team next year would be Sir Ches, Kos, Merts, Ozil, Rambo, Ox & Walcott - that's very worrying, especially when one of them is an ageing, slow defender. That would suggest we need 4 quality players to field a team of capable footballers in every position. Players like Wiltshire, Cazorla, Gibbs & Gnabbers should get a chance from the bench. Monreal, Sagna, Arteta, Flamini, Rosicky, Vermalean, Giroud, Sonogo, Bentdner & Podolski simply can be sold or given away - they are not the future of AFC.
With addition strength needed on the bench we are looking at 7/8 players - its a big transition needed NOW, not the year after - NOW. Bearing in mind the facts & reality of Wengers transfer policies this simply isn't going to happen. 2014-15 De Ja Vu.

[Niall_Quinn]

You talk absolute bollocks, mate! What the heck has happened to you. There is no debate to had because you are warped! Any response made is only served up with more long winded drivel from a moron who thinks football hasn't progressed over the last 20 years. That's idiotic! It's a huge waste of my time.

Isn't it you who positions himself as some sort of tactical and strategic guru? I just believe my eyes and leave it to others to tell me I shouldn't believe what I'm seeing.

Absolutely nothing has happened to me. I just won't pile in with the cool and loud crowd and their absolute views. It upsets some people, they seem to take it personally I won't slag the manager relentlessly or endorse some of the crazy shit being created out of thin air about him. I was taking the piss all the way through the match thread yesterday. Ripping Wenger for his reliance on too rigid a game plan, as one instance. But my problem is I won't go the whole hog and say everything he does is shite. I'll criticise him for his faults but because I won't go further people are aghast and shout, "Fuck, what's happened to you?" Sorry, but I'm not buying the idea the modern game has passed him by when he's sitting in 4th spot at the tail end of the season. The evidence doesn't fit the claim. The real evidence points to him being a consistently top manager with nobody left in British management that comes close to his record now Ferguson has gone. It also points to certain flaws in his ability to hit the very top with what he has at his disposal, and therein lies the real argument. Has he done well or poorly given the resources he's had and the task the board has set? That's a discussion worth having. Of course he has faults and I don't see anyone denying that. But there's some real silly crap going around too. Black and white, 0% or 100%, nothing in between. Won't play that and not in the least sorry if it offends.