Arsenal v Man City. 15th Feb. 19:30

[Mac76]

Massive Confirmation Bias but never had that feeling. I felt that we hadn’t been properly tested…(still haven’t come back from going a goal down away from home)….and just felt that Arteta’s idiosyncrasies and personality deficiencies would haunt us.

Losing becomes a habbit, and losing ten times in a row to City before tonight means we just don’t have that belief that we can beat them or even get a draw against them.

We had to have everything go perfectly, won the two previous games, have our strongest available XI and we had neither of these.

Also there’s an argument to be made the players just aren’t good enough. Some of them have the potential - Martinelli, Saka, Jesus, Odegaard. But there’s just things that aren’t right, Ben White has been shite for a while now, Saliba looks like he needs to be dropped, Zinchenko is stinking the place out.

And let’s be fair even Ramsdale has been poor.


Need wholesale changes for Villa

Drop Zinchenko, drop Xhaka, drop Saliba, drop Eddie


Put in the Polack defender, put in Tierney, put in Vieira behind Odegaard and have Trossard and Martinelli play interchangeable between left wing and centre forward.

prior to the Everton game I thought we'd give Citeh a really good game but we've collapsed as Letters says.

on the points people are making about the squad I actually think it's better than Spuds for sure, Chelsea is hard to say as they're all over the place - Man Utd have some very good players and clearly a manager who can turn things around.

While we're not really comparable in lots of ways, it's worth looking at Leicester City who obviously won a title out of the blue - firstly they had some very good players (e.g. Vardy, Kante) who, crucially, stayed fit through the season and secondly created a great team spirit.

We have been unlucky with injuries, particularly re attacking options - Nelson, Jesus and ESR all out at the same time

I think Arteta has created a better spirit at the club but I fear he is a bit robotic with his team structure and it's starting to show - his failure to switch formations, try different things when Plan A isn't working is a real issue.

Martinelli's a good example, I actually don't think he's having a dip in form as such, I just don't think he's being used intelligently enough.

Arteta gets slavishly attached to some players, we've seen it with Xhaka and now Zin and Eddie, both of whom are failing now but being played time and time again without even being subbed during the game.

Arteta's inexperience and intansigence is for me our biggest weakness, another coach could win the title with these guys, a lot of them are extremely talented.

He can now put this Citeh game behind him and use these last three games as a lesson in how sticking to what you think is your best 11 isn't always the best policy.

We won't win the league now and I think even second is a big challenge - it's essentially all about top four IMO

To reinvigorate the team Arteta needs to cut loose a bit and start changing things.

I thought when Vieira came on, he and Trossard really started to create some quicker moves and be more incisive - the game was already gone by then of course (an example of Arteta using his subs too late btw)

Tomi messed up a bit and I think White wil come back

I agree with your suggested team changes though I'm not sure Saliba's any worse than Gabriel who was lucky not to concede a pel yesterday- we need something like this against Villa:

Ram
White
The new Polish guy
Saliba
Tierney
Georginio
Odegaard
Vieira
Saka
Trossard
Martinelli

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Odegaard and Xhaka both walk into Spurs first XI IMO. Spurs midfield consists of the likes of Bentancur (good player) Pepe Sarr (average), Hojberg (average), Bissouma (average) and Oliver Skipp (clogger). They don't even play with an attacking midfielder / creative midfielder, their Midfield is a complete mess.

When it comes to Spurs I take it most gooners can't be impartial for even a second.

Anyway the stats show they don't play City and lose woefully every single time and have finished ahead of us on the league for the last few years with these "inferior" players... but lets not let that stop us from being a bit rational.

Anyway I'd prefer we stop deflecting and actually get back to looking at the ability of our players individually.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

prior to the Everton game I thought we'd give Citeh a really good game but we've collapsed as Letters says.

on the points people are making about the squad I actually think it's better than Spuds for sure, Chelsea is hard to say as they're all over the place - Man Utd have some very good players and clearly a manager who can turn things around.

While we're not really comparable in lots of ways, it's worth looking at Leiceseter City who obviously won a title out of ths blue - firstly they had some very good players (e.g. Vardy, Kante) who, crucially, stayed fit through the season and secondly created a great team spirit.

We have been unlucky with injuries, particularly re attacking options - Nelson, Jesus and ESR all out at the same time

I think Arteta has created a better spirit at the club but I fear he is a bit robotic with his team structure and it's starting to show - his failure to witch formations, try different things when Plan A isn't working is a real issue.

Martinelli's a good example, I actually don't think he's having a dip in form as such I just don't think he's being used intelligently enough.

Arteta gets slavishly attached to some players, we've seen it with Xhaka and now Zin and Eddie, both of whom are failing now but being played time and time again without even being subbed during the game.

Arteta's inexperience and intansigence is for me our biggest weakness, another coach could win the title with these guys a lot of them are extremely talented.

He can now put this Citeh game behind him and use these last three games as a lesson in how sticking to waht you think is your best 11 isn't alwys the best policy.

We won't win the league now and I think even second is a big challenge - it's essentially all about top four IMO

To reinvigorate the team Arteta needs to cut loose a bit and start changing things.

I thought when Vieira came on, he and Trossard really started to create some quicker moves and be more incisive - the game was already gone by then of course (an example of Arteta using his subs too late btw)

Tomi messed up a bit and I think White wil come back

I agree with your suggested team changes though I'm not sure Saliba's any worse than Gabriel who was lucky not to concede a pel yesterday- we need something like this against Villa:

Ram
White
The new Polish guy
Saliba
Tierney
Georginio
Odegaard
Vieira
Saka
Trossard
Martinelli

I like your post, we clearly need to shake things up , I'm just losing faith that there is much room to do so because of our players obvious limitations.

Anyway, Arteta needs to earn his keep and do something different till our game changers get back from injury. Lets see if he'll bother.

[HCZ_Reborn]

When it comes to Spurs I take it most gooners can't be impartial for even a second.

Anyway the stats show they don't play City and lose woefully every single time and have finished ahead of us on the league for the last few years with these "inferior" players... but lets not let that stop us from being a bit rational.

Anyway I'd prefer we stop deflecting and actually get back to looking at the ability of our players individually.

It’s not about impartiality, I think our overall squad is better than theirs currently. Son and Kane are the only two players who are objectively better than anyone we have in the same position.

They have a lot of decent players for sure, but I prefer where we are in terms of squad development than them. Yes you’re right they are capable of beating City where we are not, but as awful as our record is…Spurs have an awful record against countless other teams (not beaten Liverpool since 2017, not beaten Chelsea in the league since 2018, have lost their last four league games against Man United)

Yes they’ve finished above us since 2017, but that’s not likely happening this season

[Mac76]

It’s not about impartiality, I think our overall squad is better than theirs currently. Son and Kane are the only two players who are objectively better than anyone we have in the same position.

They have a lot of decent players for sure, but I prefer where we are in terms of squad development than them. Yes you’re right they are capable of beating City where we are not, but as awful as our record is…Spurs have an awful record against countless other teams (not beaten Liverpool since 2017, not beaten Chelsea in the league since 2018, have lost their last four league games against Man United)

Yes they’ve finished above us since 2017, but that’s not likely happening this season

Agree, although I do worry that if our freefall lasts much longer and they pick up form, it could be closer than we'd like, but getting back to the point, pure talent-wise we have a better team IMO

[selassie]

When it comes to Spurs I take it most gooners can't be impartial for even a second.

Anyway the stats show they don't play City and lose woefully every single time and have finished ahead of us on the league for the last few years with these "inferior" players... but lets not let that stop us from being a bit rational.

Anyway I'd prefer we stop deflecting and actually get back to looking at the ability of our players individually.

Agree to disagree

[Niall_Quinn]

Let me try and make what I am trying to say as simple as I can, if I can lol.

Only Saka will walk into any starting lineup in the EPL based on his performances and more importantly his undeniable quality.

Partey is quality and would be in everyone's squad. Jesus was rejected by City but 75% of teams might take him for now.

Saliba is a WIP and a maybe.

Gabriel is slightly above average.

Everyone else I didn't mention have shown with their performances this season that they are average players that can mix it up once in a while, especially our so called Captain.

To me, their is nothing wrong with being average and playing out of your skin, as a lot of them have done for most of the season and should be lauded for. But is this what I want for Arsenal, hell no!!

I mean their lack of ability and inability to rise up to the occasion can only take us so far when we have the kind of competitors we have in the EPL, and unfortunately that might not be far enough.

In short, this crop of limited players need to be vastly improved on as a matter of urgency and it was always clear, a lot of us were just to "high" to see it

As for the coach, he is representative of this squad in every way.

We must do better.

I don't get it. Partey is absolute shite. A clueless plodder who has no appreciation of what's happening on the pitch. He loses the ball in key situations so many times. I mean he's better than some of the shit we've had in the middle, but that's not saying much. But he's still nowhere near basic standard. It's a mystery how people can't see him dithering helplessly on the ball, panicking and turning forward play into last ditch defence with one horrible attempt at a pass. He's useless in defensive play in the box too. I guess provided you can run for 90 minutes and occasionally fluke a volley or hit a 99% stat in sideways passing it makes muster with the diminished standards.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just saw Pep congratulating Agent Zinchenko

Aren't you one of the... fans who wanted a quick out from the cup? Against City, no less? Forgive me if I'm wrong, I don't pay much attention to the flip-flop shite spewing out of the goldfish brigade. You want to roll over in one match and then prevail in the next? Lose to win? Doesn't make sense.

Winners win, though they can sometimes come up against other winners and then one of those winners has to lose. It's all in the mentality. When you throw a match to win the next you threw a lot more than the result. Losing is a habit too.

[Niall_Quinn]

The Invincibles didn’t. They crashed out of the 2 biggest cup competitions in a week.
No-one on here wanted to lose in the Cup, but given that we were (at the time) improbably in the title race and given that our squad clearly isn’t deep enough to compete on all fronts, the league was the clear priority.
The difference is The Invincibles picked themselves up and beat Liverpool (thanks to Henry’s heroics, I have to say I was sitting there at half time feeling that it was all about to fall apart). This lot have responded to the City loss by continuing to lose.
Bother. They’re a young squad and hopefully we will continue to invest in it and improve, but I can’t help feeling it was now or never for the title with what other clubs are doing.


The exact opposite. It’s because I’d started to believe we could win the league that I saw that as the priority.

Used to be that the same 11 played in every match, wind, rain or snow. Proper men. Now we have these modern players. Of course they can't compete on all fronts. That would be hard.

Difference between the Invincibles and whatever crap has been shat onto the field in the years since, The former took to the field and expected to win. That latter take to the field and hope to win. The former is about belief. That latter is a maybe, of a what-if, or a perhaps. Yeah, if other teams fuck up we might fluke a title. But let's face it, what we're really after is the Top Four Trophy. Now the habitual collapse has commenced I doubt even that's a possibility.

[LDG]

Used to be that the same 11 played in every match, wind, rain or snow. Proper men. Now we have these modern players. Of course they can't compete on all fronts. That would be hard.

Difference between the Invincibles and whatever crap has been shat onto the field in the years since, The former took to the field and expected to win. That latter take to the field and hope to win. The former is about belief. That latter is a maybe, of a what-if, or a perhaps. Yeah, if other teams fuck up we might fluke a title. But let's face it, what we're really after is the Top Four Trophy. Now the habitual collapse has commenced I doubt even that's a possibility.

Is it fluke if another team win the title if we fuck up?

Point re the 11 playing come what may. Whilst I get the poor pampered rich kids thing…in fairness, the game’s athleticism has moved on considerably from the good old days. I’m sure you’d be able to keep up though?