Who Will Win The League - 2

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think to a great extent there was a big element of missing Vieira, even now we miss that powerhouse box to box midfielder.

I think it's also only fair to measure the discontentment along the lines of the length of time we've gone without a major trophy. Over a decade without the premier league is not good enough, but for instance if Wenger had bungled his way to a title in the last few years people's attitudes wouldn't be as stark as they are now.

Whatever we complain about poor performances, failure to strengthen, rotten records against certain oponents, making the same mistakes and raise in season ticket costs....it boils down to a failure to both win the league or make a significant impact in the champions league. These are causal factors in why we have failed to win big trophies, but it's the failure to win big trophies that are the bottom line.

And Leicester city winning the title which seems the likeliest outcome adds insult to injury.

GW in 2007 or 2008 would have been an optimistic atmosphere because relatively speaking we hadn't gone for an exceptionally long period without a league title.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Largely the prevailing attitude in the past is irrelevant, the thread has broken well and truly now that Letters thinks he should go and all it has proven is how little influence the fans have over his tenure at the club.

[Power n Glory]

I think to a great extent there was a big element of missing Vieira, even now we miss that powerhouse box to box midfielder.

I think it's also only fair to measure the discontentment along the lines of the length of time we've gone without a major trophy. Over a decade without the premier league is not good enough, but for instance if Wenger had bungled his way to a title in the last few years people's attitudes wouldn't be as stark as they are now.

Whatever we complain about poor performances, failure to strengthen, rotten records against certain oponents, making the same mistakes and raise in season ticket costs....it boils down to a failure to both win the league or make a significant impact in the champions league. These are causal factors in why we have failed to win big trophies, but it's the failure to win big trophies that are the bottom line.

And Leicester city winning the title which seems the likeliest outcome adds insult to injury.

GW in 2007 or 2008 would have been an optimistic atmosphere because relatively speaking we hadn't gone for an exceptionally long period without a league title.

I'm not really measuring the discontentment to be honest. I'm just linking things back to this argument about revising history. For me, I've always thought Wenger wasn't a great tactician.

NQ also wrote a good response about the discontent not only being linked to the lack of silverware.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think that's the only legitimate way you can measure discontentment unless we were constantly playing like a Chelsea

[Power n Glory]

I think the stubbornness and seeing the same rigid approach to games that's really killed off the hope. If it were just about trophies, we all should be pretty content right about now.

[Letters]

Found this from the old board, this in the wake of the Birmingham debacle. Interesting to see how long the malaise goes back.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersw...pic=47805&st=0

[Letters]

is it wrong to assume Wenger worked a lot better with figures like Dein and certain players? Surely we have to recognise the contribution from those that have left as well and consider their influence on the manager?

Yes, I think that is a valid point and many have cited Dein's departure as a factor in all this.

I think the consistent top 4 finishes are fairly impressive, especially given the money other clubs were throwing around. Many predicted that Wenger had us in a spiral of decline which would see us drop out but I think that level of consistency, while it shouldn't be the limit of our ambitions, is an achievement.

I just get the impression that some people see a huge difference in Wenger's ability between his first part of his time with us and the latter part. I don't see it like that. Maybe he lacks a little bit sharpness now, as others have said most people drop off in terms of ability as they get older, but I don't think there has been a big a change as some people imply. If anything it's because he hasn't changed while all around him has which has been the problem. Or a problem. The billionaires coming in were definitely a factor too.

I think we'd be better off now if we move on from Wenger. I do think it's a bit of a stretch if people think we'd have been in a better position had we changed manager 10 years ago. It's possible but not a given. And I certainly don't think that Wenger is so incompetent that any manager could come in and we'd improve.

[Niall_Quinn]

Astonished.

Why, because every fan, player, pundit and Journalist can see our problems, our style and our needs.

Only one man either can't or refuses to see it....and he's the one with total control and has no pressure placed on him.

Therefore this will happen next year and time again until he goes or accepts something that seems so obvious.

Bored.

At least you could laugh at Selley, Morrow, McGoldrick, Jensen etc.

The players now look soulless in a soulless ground mostly full of soulless day-trippers from abroad or Tarquins and Bethany's who don't even know who Selley, Morrow, McGoldrick were.

I only enjoyed 2 games all season - Barca at home and Man City away. - I can barely remember the others.

This is the closest I've come to not re-newing the old season ticket and I'm only doing it with a very heavy heart (and a very empty wallet)

The complete predictability of everything from the morning of the CC final - 3 hours before kick-off has ran like clockwork in the how to collapse stakes.

Some of us saw this coming three years ago and tried to warm everyone but guess what, we were the ignoramus idiots. Hate to say ot but been telling you so.

Arsene Wonga'd

'Boring'

I miss seeing us hit teams on the break - I loathe the sideways passing crap.

Humiliating

Worst season in Wengers reign this is

And then we had the next 5 years

It's not really GW's fault is it? I mean what else is there to say when the same shit just keeps repeating year after year? We should all get a medal for sticking it out, or get a girlfriend or a life.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes, I think that is a valid point and many have cited Dein's departure as a factor in all this.

I think the consistent top 4 finishes are fairly impressive, especially given the money other clubs were throwing around. Many predicted that Wenger had us in a spiral of decline which would see us drop out but I think that level of consistency, while it shouldn't be the limit of our ambitions, is an achievement.

I just get the impression that some people see a huge difference in Wenger's ability between his first part of his time with us and the latter part. I don't see it like that. Maybe he lacks a little bit sharpness now, as others have said most people drop off in terms of ability as they get older, but I don't think there has been a big a change as some people imply. If anything it's because he hasn't changed while all around him has which has been the problem. Or a problem. The billionaires coming in were definitely a factor too.

I think we'd be better off now if we move on from Wenger. I do think it's a bit of a stretch if people think we'd have been in a better position had we changed manager 10 years ago. It's possible but not a given. And I certainly don't think that Wenger is so incompetent that any manager could come in and we'd improve.

The billionaires made us pass sideways.

[alexander]

Found this from the old board, this in the wake of the Birmingham debacle. Interesting to see how long the malaise goes back.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersw...pic=47805&st=0

Looked at that, the league at 27 games and 37 games, we have perfected this art of collapsing at the end of a season havent we