West Ham away (PL) Match Reaction Thread

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We are currently in an era of football where the top managers are in the main all much younger men, because their drive to succeed is uninhibited by advancing years.
Van Gaal who you mentioned earlier, was one of the top managers in Europe and has won many, many trophies but he is being made to look like a Dinosaur now....because that will power to adapt your tactics and try different things is on the wane.
Body Language can be subtle but noticeable such as body movements, between whether someone has their arms folded or whether they are gesticulating.
All i am asking is at 66? is the motivation really there to adapt the way you approach things, or are you going to feel comfortable retaining the methods that served you so well as a younger man.

[Power n Glory]

Actions speak louder than words. The actions of Wenger is not of a man that is desperate to win and that should be the bare minimum requirement of the manager of Arsenal Football club. It's all very well David Dein saying that Wenger doesn't like losing, of course he doesn't, nobody likes losing but does Wenger have the absolute upmost desire to do all in his power to bring the glory days back to Arsenal. Wenger has everything he needs to succeed, if principles are holding him back then quite frankly that is a disgrace. Nobody is telling him to go out and buy a team of Messi's, nobody is telling him that we expect PL & CL titles every year, what people are telling him is that he is NOT doing enough and is NOT using his resources wisely to make Arsenal FC as competitive as they can be.

What gets me more than anything is his defiance and surprise at our routinely played out seasons, what does he expect? how can he honestly expect progress if he's not making fundamental changes himself?

The whole system at Arsenal at the top is rotten to the core, do they honestly expect the entire fanbase to sit their like lame ducks and accept it for what it is?

That's what it boils down to. How he feels about defeats isn’t that important and the debate is getting side tracked slightly. Whether he goes off and sulks for a few days doesn’t matter. Heck, that could be an excuse he tells his wife so he can stay a few days in a hotel with his bit on the side. It really doesn’t matter to be honest. How he copes with defeat is his business. It’s action after each defeat that’s important. I wouldn’t mind if he was all smiles after a loss but the team come out firing the next game we don’t repeat the same mistakes. But we keep seeing the same mistakes and Wenger even admitted the we’ve been conceding the same sort of goals all season. So why hasn’t it been addressed?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

One leads to another, unless you are a masochist....if defeat really cuts you that deep you will do everything in your power to avoid that feeling again.

[Özim]

I agree with the assertion that he's more use to losing now in his earlier days defeats were few and far between and big defeats were pretty much unheard of, in recent years we've taken some real beatings (beatings on the scale I'd never seen before the last 5-6 years) and have lost a lot more games than we use to, to some extent it's less of a shock when we win now.

I also agree his hunger isn't the same as when he arrived as a younger manager with plenty to prove, now he see's his role as much more than manager and financeare paramount to his idea of success, again I think he's much calmer in his interviews as well, almost indifferent until someone questions him on the problems.

As far as speaking in public is concerned, surely he must realise what he says is pretty much what the fans hear so to dismiss his comments as those only targeted at the press is ridiculous, I also think he's made some comments clearly aimed at the fans in the press so I don't agree that his words are just made to the press, he's talking about what he believes and thinks.

[Letters]

Again unless you are being a pedant (which you increasingly are....i know i asked you yesterday if you suffered from Aspergers jokingly, now i am genuinely concerned)

No you're not

winning at all costs doesn't necessarily mean having to bankrupt your club in order so to do.

Well, it could do. It's pretty much the definition of the phrase. Surely the whole spirit of it is trying to succeed in the short term with no regard to the long term consequences.

It means approaching each game and assessing the strengths and weaknesses of your opposition in order to use your strengths to overcome them.

That isn't winning at all costs, that's what any manager should do as a matter of course.

But this is an aside, the point is that Wenger does not appear to be anywhere near as driven as he was before, i have stated that i think this down due to the circumstances he finds himself in and his age. These things can be gradual and subconscious, I am not saying Wenger is wilfully not putting the effort in.

I do think age is a factor, but I don't agree he isn't driven. Again, I defer to Dein's comments from 2 years ago which doesn't indicate any loss of desire to success. A loss of ability in the modern game, maybe.

[Kano]

One leads to another, unless you are a masochist....if defeat really cuts you that deep you will do everything in your power to avoid that feeling again.

Your ability to see or change when something is going wrong is completely different from your desire to do so.

[Letters]

That's what it boils down to. How he feels about defeats isn’t that important and the debate is getting side tracked slightly. Whether he goes off and sulks for a few days doesn’t matter. Heck, that could be an excuse he tells his wife so he can stay a few days in a hotel with his bit on the side. It really doesn’t matter to be honest. How he copes with defeat is his business. It’s action after each defeat that’s important. I wouldn’t mind if he was all smiles after a loss but the team come out firing the next game we don’t repeat the same mistakes. But we keep seeing the same mistakes and Wenger even admitted the we’ve been conceding the same sort of goals all season. So why hasn’t it been addressed?

That I agree with. In some ways it doesn't matter how much defeats hurt him, what matters is whether he's able to do anything about it and it seems he isn't.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Your ability to see or change when something is going wrong is completely different from your desire to do so.

I refer you to another poster who made the point that Wenger made at the weekend in his post match interview where he acknowledged that we were conceding the same kind of goals all season.

Now he has identified a problem, well you know he's not stupid, i know he's not stupid. If he can't identify a way to change that himself he would defer to someone he can, if he doesn't want to defer that issue to someone else it's not that important to him.

[Power n Glory]

Your ability to see or change when something is going wrong is completely different from your desire to do so.

It doesn’t take much to sign an outfield player in the summer. Make proper use of the budget. It’s not that complex.

[selassie]

That's what it boils down to. How he feels about defeats isn’t that important and the debate is getting side tracked slightly. Whether he goes off and sulks for a few days doesn’t matter. Heck, that could be an excuse he tells his wife so he can stay a few days in a hotel with his bit on the side. It really doesn’t matter to be honest. How he copes with defeat is his business. It’s action after each defeat that’s important. I wouldn’t mind if he was all smiles after a loss but the team come out firing the next game we don’t repeat the same mistakes. But we keep seeing the same mistakes and Wenger even admitted the we’ve been conceding the same sort of goals all season. So why hasn’t it been addressed?

Exactly this, his demeanour after defeat is irrelevant, what is relevant is that he addresses what is going wrong, he's not doing that, it's as simple as that.