Winter Transfer Despair and Bafflement.

[Niall_Quinn]

The writings on the well for our lad jack. I think no 13 is available. Quite the fit for a chap with the luck of a Doughnut a a cop convention

I suppose any day now he'll be made captain and that will be that.

[Penguin]

Does Ozil now get the no10 off from jack?

Nah the Arsenal website is selling Ozil #11 shirts.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nah the Arsenal website is selling Ozil #11 shirts.

To try to clear stock no doubt. Come on - wouldn't that be class[ic] Arsenal?

[Özim]

To try to clear stock no doubt. Come on - wouldn't that be class[ic] Arsenal?

Spot on, they're discounting them to get rid of them, you have to pay £1 more for them.

[Cripps]

Arsene Wenger has offered no assurances to Alexandre Lacazette that he will keep his place in the Arsenal side following the arrival of Pierre Emerick-Aubameyang.

:lol: so no planning went into the transfer and now we have an unbalanced squad :lol:

:lol: #OneArseneWenger

[Xhaka Can’t]

No one should have such assurances. You should have to earn and retain your place.

But this being Arsenal....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsene Wenger has offered no assurances to Alexandre Lacazette that he will keep his place in the Arsenal side following the arrival of Pierre Emerick-Aubameyang.

:lol: so no planning went into the transfer and now we have an unbalanced squad :lol:

:lol: #OneArseneWenger

Did Laca ask for any assurances, or has Arsene offered them up as desert for the constant subbings and sticking him on a desert island up top? Relentless. Hard not to think he doesn't like the guy much.

[Power n Glory]

Did Laca ask for any assurances, or has Arsene offered them up as desert for the constant subbings and sticking him on a desert island up top? Relentless. Hard not to think he doesn't like the guy much.

We can't forget how often Wenger subbed Lacazette to really break his stride and confidence. Everything Wenger used to be good at is now the opposite.

[HCZ]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42916936

Why does he talk about these things as if they are in anyway pertinent to him

We have failed to win more games than we’ve won in the league this season

Money has spoilt the game but it’s had no bearing on his catalogue of failures

[Marc Overmars]

Anything to take the spotlight off his failure to compete with millions at his disposal.

[Letters]

I doubt he arranged a press conference just to talk about this.
He's basically right although given that we are one of the "haves" it doesn't excuse our failure to compete.

[Power n Glory]

Wenger said it was clear that "unpredictability has gone down".

Yes, I yearn for the good the 90s when it was a choice between Man Utd and Man Utd for the league title. ;)

[Letters]

Ha. Well, strangely the billionaires barging in have actually meant the English league is more competitive than most.
But that is pretty much the only way of achieving success in the game these days.
What Leicester did was remarkable but they don't have the money to sustain success.
The game has been screwed for years.

[Cripps]

I doubt he arranged a press conference just to talk about this.
He's basically right although given that we are one of the "haves" it doesn't excuse our failure to compete.

:faint:

[Özim]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42916936

Why does he talk about these things as if they are in anyway pertinent to him

We have failed to win more games than we’ve won in the league this season

Money has spoilt the game but it’s had no bearing on his catalogue of failures

Always complaining and making excuses, he's got it hard though getting his millions a year whilst his team are not performing and never competing for the top prizes, ironic that he doesn't even mention managers and players getting paid too much ruining the game.

Personally I prefer the model of those other clubs, at least they're not fleecing the fans, our net spend is shocking, that's not being self sustaining, it's being greedy and not willing to put any of your own money in, a billionaire owns us just like every other club but ours is happy to take and give nothing back, at least the billionaires at City, Chelsea, PSG put their own money in.

The guy has all the excuses under the sun, as MO said anything to take the spotlight off his failures, from Arsenals point of view alone Wenger is destroying football, pound for pound worst manager in football.

[HCZ]

Always complaining and making excuses, he's got it hard though getting his millions a year whilst his team are not performing and never competing for the top prizes, ironic that he doesn't even mention managers and players getting paid too much ruining the game.

Personally I prefer the model of those other clubs, at least they're not fleecing the fans, our net spend is shocking, that's not being self sustaining, it's being greedy and not willing to put any of your own money in, a billionaire owns us just like every other club but ours is happy to take and give nothing back, at least the billionaires at City, Chelsea, PSG put their own money in.

The guy has all the excuses under the sun, as MO said anything to take the spotlight off his failures, from Arsenals point of view alone Wenger is destroying football, pound for pound worst manager in football.

I don’t like either model

I think financial doping has stratified football more than it ever was

The only clubs that can break into the European elite are the ones owned by oligarchs

Look at the domination of the champions league of clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona

The fact that he makes it an excuse for turning us into an easy to beat Joke is a joke in itself , but it doesn’t make what he says untrue. Maybe we are crying for the moon but football has lost its lustre.

There’s always been dominant teams, United dominated English football in the 90s. But what we have currently seems to be a matter of Chelsea and City passing the title between each other.

[Power n Glory]

I don’t like either model

I think financial doping has stratified football more than it ever was

The only clubs that can break into the European elite are the ones owned by oligarchs

Look at the domination of the champions league of clubs like Real Madrid and Barcelona

The fact that he makes it an excuse for turning us into an easy to beat Joke is a joke in itself , but it doesn’t make what he says untrue. Maybe we are crying for the moon but football has lost its lustre.

There’s always been dominant teams, United dominated English football in the 90s. But what we have currently seems to be a matter of Chelsea and City passing the title between each other.

The Champions League has always been dominated by Real and Barca. It's always been a competition for the biggest clubs. A major factor to why we're seeing the two Spanish giants feature so often comes back to the Italian and Dutch leagues falling apart.

Also, the Messi and Ronaldo factor is a strong one. These two freaks of football have gone on longer than most. Great players of the past often wind down once they've won everything...these two just keep on going.

[HCZ]

I don’t disagree but I think it’s become increasingly stratified as a result of money.

In addition look at the Bundesliga, whilst Bayern were the dominant team no team has ever won the Bundesliga more than three times in a row in the post war period but Bayern are nailed on to win six times in a row.

No they aren’t an oligarch owned club but essentially what you have now is that unless you’re a historically giant club or you’re owned by a foreign potentate you have no chance.

Yes it’s always been hard, but now it’s almost completely a closed shop.

[AFC Leveller]

Taken from Facebook:

Ornstein talked to Arseblog, here are the important points:

-Alexis Sanchez fought with Koscielny in training. He was a problem in the dressing room, even though Arsene Wenger denied it. As Wenger would never criticize his players in public. Alexis wasn't very popular in the squad, kept to himself. Also, Alexis was never given a contract extension after the summer window as his relationship with his teammates wasn't good, which is very different from Ozil's case.

-Alexis did love his time at Arsenal.

-Mino Raiola is the one who gave United and Arsenal the idea about Mkhitaryan/Alexis swap

-Sven Mislintat pushed the Aubameyang deal. Gazdisis, Sven and Hussy getting photographed put a lot of pressure on them as Arsenal fans knew they were in Germany for Auba so to return to England without him would anger the fans.

-BVB got annoyed by how low the first offers were.

-Giroud was not pressing for any move. He was happy at Arsenal. But he was needed to make the Aubameyang transfer happen.

-Arsene Wenger has never been totally convinced by Alexandre Lacazette. Arsenal were looking at both him and Auba in summer, but Lacazette was cheaper so the board pushed the Lacazette deal.

-Ornstein has heard Arsenal are looking to offer Elneny a new contract.

-It really takes a horrendus result in a game (like 8-2 vs United) to make Arsenal active in the transfer market.

-Mustafi was offered to WBA in a swap deal for Evans last summer.

-Arsene Wengers power is being diluted. Gazidis preparing for the post-Wenger era. But his power being diluted is not a bad thing for Wenger, as thats how it was when David Dein was here.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

We should have screwed Chelsea to haedes. That interview was interesting though.....

Especially the part about us not actually offering Sanchez a contract he was actually happy with....

[HCZ]

Taken from Facebook:

Ornstein talked to Arseblog, here are the important points:

-Alexis Sanchez fought with Koscielny in training. He was a problem in the dressing room, even though Arsene Wenger denied it. As Wenger would never criticize his players in public. Alexis wasn't very popular in the squad, kept to himself. Also, Alexis was never given a contract extension after the summer window as his relationship with his teammates wasn't good, which is very different from Ozil's case.

-Alexis did love his time at Arsenal.

-Mino Raiola is the one who gave United and Arsenal the idea about Mkhitaryan/Alexis swap

-Sven Mislintat pushed the Aubameyang deal. Gazdisis, Sven and Hussy getting photographed put a lot of pressure on them as Arsenal fans knew they were in Germany for Auba so to return to England without him would anger the fans.

-BVB got annoyed by how low the first offers were.

-Giroud was not pressing for any move. He was happy at Arsenal. But he was needed to make the Aubameyang transfer happen.

-Arsene Wenger has never been totally convinced by Alexandre Lacazette. Arsenal were looking at both him and Auba in summer, but Lacazette was cheaper so the board pushed the Lacazette deal.

-Ornstein has heard Arsenal are looking to offer Elneny a new contract.

-It really takes a horrendus result in a game (like 8-2 vs United) to make Arsenal active in the transfer market.

-Mustafi was offered to WBA in a swap deal for Evans last summer.

-Arsene Wengers power is being diluted. Gazidis preparing for the post-Wenger era. But his power being diluted is not a bad thing for Wenger, as thats how it was when David Dein was here.

In addition Ornstein reiterated that after the Aubemeyang deal that the club stated there was no significant money for transfers remaining, although he speculates that a low ball offer came in for Evans on the 31st after we sold Giroud because the sale bolstered our coffers.

[Cripps]

So where the fuck is all the money?

[HCZ]

So where the fuck is all the money?

We have about 180million in cash reserve but no business is ever going to blow its entire cash reserve

Plus unless we clear the wage bill first, that money has to be used towards wages as well

Plus there is the signing on fee and agents fees....the actual transfer fee to buy a player out of his contract is often the tip of an iceberg.

I would say if we clear out more of the shit in the summer off the wage bill and maybe get some transfer fees for some of them, we can spend most of that amount and still strengthen the squad quite a bit.

[Özim]

So where the fuck is all the money?

There are some very large back pockets at Arsenal, you should be able to find the money in those.

[Özim]

We have about 180million in cash reserve but no business is ever going to blow its entire cash reserve

Plus unless we clear the wage bill first, that money has to be used towards wages as well

Plus there is the signing on fee and agents fees....the actual transfer fee to buy a player out of his contract is often the tip of an iceberg.

Thing is other clubs spend much more than us, I'd beleive this is not for the fact we've been trimming the wage bill and our net spend has been very low for years, not being funny but TV money has gone through the roof so we make ample to cover salaries, fees etc.

The cash reserves don't pay the wages, the income does and we're always in profit so that's money over and above, fees, wages etc.

[Cripps]

We have about 180million in cash reserve but no business is ever going to blow its entire cash reserve

Plus unless we clear the wage bill first, that money has to be used towards wages as well

Plus there is the signing on fee and agents fees....the actual transfer fee to buy a player out of his contract is often the tip of an iceberg.

I would say if we clear out more of the shit in the summer off the wage bill and maybe get some transfer fees for some of them, we can spend most of that amount and still strengthen the squad quite a bit.

Bollocks.

We spent fuck all for 10 years.

We've been breaking even since.

Where the fuck is all the money?

[HCZ]

In offloading Sanchez, Walcott, Coquelin, Ox, Giroud, Debuchy off the wage bill that’s cleared about 25 million a year off the wage bill.

But Ozils new contract, Aubemeyang and Mkhitaryan have easily replaced that.

[HCZ]

Bollocks.

We spent fuck all for 10 years.

We've been breaking even since.

Where the fuck is all the money?

Between 2013 and 2017, we spent near on 300m on transfer fees and made very little in the way back

So to answer that question. Wenger has spunked a good deal of it up the wall.

[Cripps]

Little in the way back :lol:

[HCZ]

Little in the way back :lol:

Unless you’ve found a sexual innuendo in there I’m not sure what the joke is

Between Van Persie in 2012 and Ox in 2017 can you name me a player that we got more than 15 million in cash for?

[Letters]

Bollocks.

We spent fuck all for 10 years.

We've been breaking even since.

Where the fuck is all the money?

:blink:

The other day you made a post saying how big our net spend has been.

[HCZ]

Ffffffiiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhttttttttt!!!!!!!

[Cripps]

:blink:

The other day you made a post saying how big our net spend has been.

No I didn't :blink:

[Cripps]

Between Van Persie in 2012 and Ox in 2017 can you name me a player that we got more than 15 million in cash for?


Vermaelen.

I win again.

[HCZ]

Vermaelen.

I win again.

Vermaelen was sold for £15 million

That’s why I said over 15 million

[Cripps]

I believe it was £15m + £1.

[Özim]

:blink:

The other day you made a post saying how big our net spend has been.

He actually posted 6 clubs I think (all big clubs) and ours was the only positive one.

[HCZ]

I believe it was £15m + £1.

You also believe that your dad is living with Father Christmas and the Easter Bunny in imagination land

Rather than in prison where he will never get out because he’s the biggest nonce case in British history

[Cripps]

He actually posted 6 clubs I think (all big clubs) and ours was the only positive one.

Letters:haha:

Just pack it in mate, you're done.

:rose:

[HCZ]

He actually posted 6 clubs I think (all big clubs) and ours was the only positive one.

If we take the last two transfer windows we are definitely up

But take the last five years, our net spend is about 200 million.

The argument was always made by Wenger and his defenders that he couldn’t compete but he’s had plenty of money to spend and he’s wasted the vast majority of it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wasted a big chunk of it on Lacazette too, if current rumour and speculation is to be believed. That claim we signed Laca instead of Auba because we were penny pinching - if that's true and we have ended up with both anyway, dear oh dear. That would be mismanagement on an epic scale.

[Power n Glory]

If we take the last two transfer windows we are definitely up

But take the last five years, our net spend is about 200 million.

The argument was always made by Wenger and his defenders that he couldn’t compete but he’s had plenty of money to spend and he’s wasted the vast majority of it.

Until you have the actual figures for what we earn from the stadium, the sponsors, transfers and actual expenditure, it's not worth trying to argue that we've spent all our money. Whenever we don't spend as expected, these stories and theories start floating around despite revenue going up and up. It was the same when we only signed Ozil and again when we only signed Cech.

As seen from the report, the manager covered for Sanchez when reports flew about a training ground bust up with Kos. People thought Henry was stirring when he noticed something wasn't right with that goal celebration. The team tried to cover it up with their IG and Twitter accounts. Nature of the business. Cover the bullshit up.

So.... these rumours of us not having money are just cover stories for Wenger. Someone is feeding us bullshit because if any of it's true, that last ditch attempt to sign Lemar or us being close to signing Mbappe last summer were fantasy tales spun to con the fans.

[Niall_Quinn]

We have more money than any other club in the world. We saw that report a while back, we have around a quarter billion in cash and have done for several seasons. But we can't spend any of it because it's need for "cashflow". It's not clear whose cashflow they are talking about. And there's all the extra TV money and sponsorships, that would have covered the extra transfer expenditures. We're the richest club in the world because we work at it, we make it a priority. If they started claiming this poverty bullshit again then only Ty will believe it.

[Letters]

No I didn't :blink:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4062&page=170&p=4435223#post4435223

:coffee:

[The Emirates Gallactico]

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4062&page=170&p=4435223#post4435223

:coffee:

:haha:


Letters 1 - 0 Dumbledore

[Cripps]

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4062&page=170&p=4435223#post4435223

:coffee:

That doesn't mean we have a high net spend, it's just higher than theirs:coffee:

[Letters]

:haha:


Letters 1 - 0 Dumbledore
Letters :bow:

Dumblebore :pal:

[HCZ]

Until you have the actual figures for what we earn from the stadium, the sponsors, transfers and actual expenditure, it's not worth trying to argue that we've spent all our money. Whenever we don't spend as expected, these stories and theories start floating around despite revenue going up and up. It was the same when we only signed Ozil and again when we only signed Cech.

As seen from the report, the manager covered for Sanchez when reports flew about a training ground bust up with Kos. People thought Henry was stirring when he noticed something wasn't right with that goal celebration. The team tried to cover it up with their IG and Twitter accounts. Nature of the business. Cover the bullshit up.

So.... these rumours of us not having money are just cover stories for Wenger. Someone is feeding us bullshit because if any of it's true, that last ditch attempt to sign Lemar or us being close to signing Mbappe last summer were fantasy tales spun to con the fans.

I didn’t say we had no money in fact i stated we have about 180million in cash reserve and yes that’s before other income.

The sponsorship deal and the stadium naming deal will bolster our finances, but a Club our size will have outgoings. We have paid off a lot of the loan we took out to build the stadium but we are still paying a mortgage essentially.

So no not all the money we make on profit can be spent on transfers. Plus when the club say there is no money available it means they allocate a certain amount for a transfer budget.

Anyway if you listen to the Ornstein interview, he says it’s Wenger who claims there is money to spend but the club that say otherwise

[HCZ]

Christ alive, my brother thinks Xhaka will come good. If it was 12 months earlier it might be tenable to think that way but not now

[Power n Glory]

I didn’t say we had no money in fact i stated we have about 180million in cash reserve and yes that’s before other income.

The sponsorship deal and the stadium naming deal will bolster our finances, but a Club our size will have outgoings. We have paid off a lot of the loan we took out to build the stadium but we are still paying a mortgage essentially.

So no not all the money we make on profit can be spent on transfers. Plus when the club say there is no money available it means they allocate a certain amount for a transfer budget.

Anyway if you listen to the Ornstein interview, he says it’s Wenger who claims there is money to spend but the club that say otherwise

:lol: Do you believe that?

[Marc Overmars]

Wasted a big chunk of it on Lacazette too, if current rumour and speculation is to be believed. That claim we signed Laca instead of Auba because we were penny pinching - if that's true and we have ended up with both anyway, dear oh dear. That would be mismanagement on an epic scale.

Was thinking the same, there really doesn’t appear to be much strategy in place, it’s all so reactive and done on a whim. Now we have both strikers worth over 100m, someone’s nose is going to be put out of joint.

[HCZ]

:lol: Do you believe that?

I don’t know what you’re asking

Are you asking me if Ornstein has just made that up?

Like I say I’m sure there is money to spend and actually it probably makes sense that probably after he’s badly spent so much of it that the club is probably more inclined to be parsimonious than the manager.

Wenger has been reluctant to spend at times because he is a natural prevaricater, is obssessed with getting value because he thinks like an economics graduate (which he is) and doesn’t want to upset members of the squad he likes.

But let’s be fair, a lot of the money he has spent has been wasted. So the club might think, do we really want him spending more than necessary. I know Wenger has a lot of control but I don’t think it extends to setting his own transfer budget

[Power n Glory]

I don’t know what you’re asking

Are you asking me if Ornstein has just made that up?

Like I say I’m sure there is money to spend and actually it probably makes sense that probably after he’s badly spent so much of it that the club is probably more inclined to be parsimonious than the manager.

Wenger has been reluctant to spend at times because he is a natural prevaricater, is obssessed with getting value because he thinks like an economics graduate (which he is) and doesn’t want to upset members of the squad he likes.

But let’s be fair, a lot of the money he has spent has been wasted. So the club might think, do we really want him spending more than necessary. I know Wenger has a lot of control but I don’t think it extends to setting his own transfer budget

I didn't ask if Ornstein made it up but you've answered the question and must know it’s ridiculous to believe it's Wenger the one wanting to spend.

PR games. Wenger has contacts. The club has contacts. I don't know which side of the fence Ornstein is on, but I know the fans are being fed bullshit.

[HCZ]

I don’t think Wenger is especially bothered I certainly don’t think it’s a source of tension between him and the club

All I’m saying is that if the club was purely spinning for Wenger, wouldn’t he also just say there is no money?

It’s quite possible Wenger is briefing against the club, they’ve done it to him in the past

Ornstein I doubt is on any side, he just reports what he’s told. In fact the only time he has even ventured an opinion is about the debacle of August

My own opinion is that there is money, we don’t have a Scrooge McDuck vault that the board take turns in swimming around in. But irregardless Wenger is given a set transfer budget to work with, now in the past had Wenger wanted he could have made a plea to the club to use that but he chose not to. And now I think it unlikely the club would give it to him if he did ask.

[Power n Glory]

Sven had to convince Wenger to sign Aubameyang. It was Ivan and Sven out in Dortmund getting the deal done. But we're supposed to believe Wenger wanted Aubameyang all along but it was the club pushing for Lacazette?

I don't believe these supposed murmurs behind the scenes of Wenger being denied. Whenever Wenger has a press conference, how he chooses to speak of teams that spend lots of money suggest he thinks of it as an unfair advantage. Also, from his own mouth, he said he'd have the final say and that Gazidis has nothing to do with transfers. Obvious bullshit. I really have no idea what's going on but we've got too many people trying to feed the fans their version of events with a spin.

[HCZ]

I don’t disagree.

All I’m going by is what Ornstein has stated which you jumped on, I’m speculating as to the reasons why. What I’m saying is the money was in the budget to sign Aubemeyang, but the club spent ages trying to offer less than what Dortmund wanted for the player and it’s the club that told Ornstein that there was no money for the transfer fee and wages to make another significant signing.

What I’m saying is that it’s possible that Wenger has claimed there is money to spend to contradict the board to suggest that it’s not his fault that things are going so badly, I’ve not stated for a second that Wenger is more willing to spend the money.

And the club may possibly be claiming that there is no money because it doesn’t want to break its own structure to prop up a manager they know is failing.

It’s as you say PR and bullshit, what I can gleam is that there more money than the club is willing to spend but it’s certainly not in the United/City brackets.

And to pre empt a response I’m not saying you are either

[HCZ]

Also I’d remind you that you dismissed out of hand that anyone but Wenger was involved in our January transfer dealings.

As I said at the times the sale of Walcott and Coquelin were dithering free, and it seems clear that the wage bill was being freed up.

Was what happened all planned for at the start of the window? No. But opportunities were taken when they arose

[Power n Glory]

I don’t disagree.

All I’m going by is what Ornstein has stated which you jumped on, I’m speculating as to the reasons why. What I’m saying is the money was in the budget to sign Aubemeyang, but the club spent ages trying to offer less than what Dortmund wanted for the player and it’s the club that told Ornstein that there was no money for the transfer fee and wages to make another significant signing.

What I’m saying is that it’s possible that Wenger has claimed there is money to spend to contradict the board to suggest that it’s not his fault that things are going so badly, I’ve not stated for a second that Wenger is more willing to spend the money.

And the club may possibly be claiming that there is no money because it doesn’t want to break its own structure to prop up a manager they know is failing.

It’s as you say PR and bullshit, what I can gleam is that there more money than the club is willing to spend but it’s certainly not in the United/City brackets.

And to pre empt a response I’m not saying you are either

It's not the Ornstein post that bothers me. I jumped from the exchange you had with Cripps which sounds as if you were saying we needed to sell in order to buy.


We have about 180million in cash reserve but no business is ever going to blow its entire cash reserve

Plus unless we clear the wage bill first, that money has to be used towards wages as well

Plus there is the signing on fee and agents fees....the actual transfer fee to buy a player out of his contract is often the tip of an iceberg.

I would say if we clear out more of the shit in the summer off the wage bill and maybe get some transfer fees for some of them, we can spend most of that amount and still strengthen the squad quite a bit.

We shouldn't have to dip into our cash reserves since the stadium pays for itself and we're able to generate so much from sponsors. That's the part of the narrative I'm not buying into and that's when you brought up Ornstein.

We'll see what happens with this supposed power struggle. All will be revealed at some point. I don't think it's a case of the club not allowing Wenger to spend because they've lost faith in him.

[Power n Glory]

Also I’d remind you that you dismissed out of hand that anyone but Wenger was involved in our January transfer dealings.

As I said at the times the sale of Walcott and Coquelin were dithering free, and it seems clear that the wage bill was being freed up.

Was what happened all planned for at the start of the window? No. But opportunities were taken when they arose

I said there was no evidence of anyone else being involved with the sales of Coquelin and Walcott. Sven is a scout. He has a connection with Dortmund so it makes sense for him to be involved with that transfer. The Greek kid could have also been someone he's had an eye on and recommended or backed as a good signing. That's work already done.

I don't think our scout has looked through our finances and picked out players that we should sell. There were murmurs of a clear out during the summer before these appointments and it started with Gabriel, Gibbs, Perez and we've been looking to offload Debuchy for ages, Chambers was also meant to go too. The process started before these arrivals.

I also said I'm not jumping to any conclusions without further evidence. I haven't seen anything yet to suggest that someone new has come in and told Wenger who needs to be sold.

[Power n Glory]

Was thinking the same, there really doesn’t appear to be much strategy in place, it’s all so reactive and done on a whim. Now we have both strikers worth over 100m, someone’s nose is going to be put out of joint.

I just remembered we bought Perez last year. Of course there was no plan.

[HCZ]

The Emirates stadium deal brings us in thirty million a year, in the grand scheme of things that’s chicken feed. Of course that’s just one revenue stream

But if you consider that if you want to sign one 50 million player, in addition you have the adds on, the wages which if you are not adding to your current wage bill is another 40 million over four years...and you are looking at up to 100 million (if you don’t sell that player in that time)

And When I spoke about having to sell players it’s more about clearing the wage bill. Santi Cazorla and Cech for instance we will probably lose for nothing but the wage bill gets lowered exponentially.

[Cripps]

I don’t disagree.

All I’m going by is what Ornstein has stated which you jumped on, I’m speculating as to the reasons why. What I’m saying is the money was in the budget to sign Aubemeyang, but the club spent ages trying to offer less than what Dortmund wanted for the player and it’s the club that told Ornstein that there was no money for the transfer fee and wages to make another significant signing.

What I’m saying is that it’s possible that Wenger has claimed there is money to spend to contradict the board to suggest that it’s not his fault that things are going so badly, I’ve not stated for a second that Wenger is more willing to spend the money.

And the club may possibly be claiming that there is no money because it doesn’t want to break its own structure to prop up a manager they know is failing.

It’s as you say PR and bullshit, what I can gleam is that there more money than the club is willing to spend but it’s certainly not in the United/City brackets.

And to pre empt a response I’m not saying you are either

Basically you have no clue what you're arguing and you're just spouting circular hypothetical crap as usual.

:tiphat:

[Cripps]

I said there was no evidence of anyone else being involved with the sales of Coquelin and Walcott. Sven is a scout. He has a connection with Dortmund so it makes sense for him to be involved with that transfer. The Greek kid could have also been someone he's had an eye on and recommended or backed as a good signing. That's work already done.

I don't think our scout has looked through our finances and picked out players that we should sell. There were murmurs of a clear out during the summer before these appointments and it started with Gabriel, Gibbs, Perez and we've been looking to offload Debuchy for ages, Chambers was also meant to go too. The process started before these arrivals.

I also said I'm not jumping to any conclusions without further evidence. I haven't seen anything yet to suggest that someone new has come in and told Wenger who needs to be sold.

Why do you bother trying to reason with the simpleton? :lol:

Only a tit would genuinely believe we have no money :lol:

[Power n Glory]

The Emirates stadium deal brings us in thirty million a year, in the grand scheme of things that’s chicken feed. Of course that’s just one revenue stream

But if you consider that if you want to sign one 50 million player, in addition you have the adds on, the wages which if you are not adding to your current wage bill is another 40 million over four years...and you are looking at up to 100 million (if you don’t sell that player in that time)

And When I spoke about having to sell players it’s more about clearing the wage bill. Santi Cazorla and Cech for instance we will probably lose for nothing but the wage bill gets lowered exponentially.

This is the fantasy economics and speculation I wanted to avoid. You're contradicting yourself slightly.

Based off these reports, we supposedly earned £142m last season off league position and TV money alone.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/the-premier-league-prize-money-table-revealed-chelsea-arsenal-manchester-united-a7748851.html

How is it that we're in 5th for prize money and tv money received last summer but 15th when it comes to net spend during the summer?

So how much are Liverpool and Everton spending on players? Did Everton blow all their Lukkau money on Sigurdsson? So it wasn't £45m they spent...it was closer to £75m- 85m? But then again, they're also paying Rooney's wages, Theo Walcott plus his wages...would that mean they've paid close to £60m for Theo? What about Keane, Pickford, Klaasenn and Tosun? Does the £20m - £25m they paid for each of those players really work out to be £40m - £50m a pop? That's working out to be over £300m spent in season by Everton! :lol:

When you apply these crazy economics to other teams besides Arsenal, you start to see how it doesn't add up. Just look at the net spend summer league table. Also, I don't think a club hands the player the full 4 years worth of their salary right up front. That makes no sense and why the calculations are all wrong in the first place.

You've made this very same stance when we signed Ozil. Speculating that we may have blown the entire budget on one player, had nothing left and could be in trouble. Next year we went on to sign Sanchez, Welbeck, Gabriel, Chambers, Ospina and the rest is history.

The club will have our heads spinning trying to debate this and work out what's going on whilst pocketing the money. Shit, maybe it's Wenger and his cronies swallowing up the money. We need factor that in when playing fantasy economics.

[LDG]

They produce a set of audited accounts every year. It’s no secret.

[HCZ]

I said there was no evidence of anyone else being involved with the sales of Coquelin and Walcott. Sven is a scout. He has a connection with Dortmund so it makes sense for him to be involved with that transfer. The Greek kid could have also been someone he's had an eye on and recommended or backed as a good signing. That's work already done.

I don't think our scout has looked through our finances and picked out players that we should sell. There were murmurs of a clear out during the summer before these appointments and it started with Gabriel, Gibbs, Perez and we've been looking to offload Debuchy for ages, Chambers was also meant to go too. The process started before these arrivals.

I also said I'm not jumping to any conclusions without further evidence. I haven't seen anything yet to suggest that someone new has come in and told Wenger who needs to be sold.

So the club would not have been bothered at all if Wenger had not sold Coquelin or Walcott in addition to the wages of Ozil, Aubemeyang and Mkhitaryan and transfer fees for Aubemeyang....Especially when the wage bill going into January wasn’t exponentially smaller than that of Chelsea/City/United.
It was you who stated that I’d ascribed these powers to Mislintat (he’s a scout, his job is to reccomend players) I stated that Wenger hasn’t been left to his own devices in terms of outgoings, just as much as it’s been proven a certainty that he’s not being left to his own devices on players coming in.

[HCZ]

This is the fantasy economics and speculation I wanted to avoid. You're contradicting yourself slightly.

Based off these reports, we supposedly earned £142m last season off league position and TV money alone.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/the-premier-league-prize-money-table-revealed-chelsea-arsenal-manchester-united-a7748851.html

How is it that we're in 5th for prize money and tv money received last summer but 15th when it comes to net spend during the summer?

So how much are Liverpool and Everton spending on players? Did Everton blow all their Lukkau money on Sigurdsson? So it wasn't £45m they spent...it was closer to £75m- 85m? But then again, they're also paying Rooney's wages, Theo Walcott plus his wages...would that mean they've paid close to £60m for Theo? What about Keane, Pickford, Klaasenn and Tosun? Does the £20m - £25m they paid for each of those players really work out to be £40m - £50m a pop? That's working out to be over £300m spent in season by Everton! :lol:

When you apply these crazy economics to other teams besides Arsenal, you start to see how it doesn't add up. Just look at the net spend summer league table. Also, I don't think a club hands the player the full 4 years worth of their salary right up front. That makes no sense and why the calculations are all wrong in the first place.

You've made this very same stance when we signed Ozil. Speculating that we may have blown the entire budget on one player, had nothing left and could be in trouble. Next year we went on to sign Sanchez, Welbeck, Gabriel, Chambers, Ospina and the rest is history.

The club will have our heads spinning trying to debate this and work out what's going on whilst pocketing the money. Shit, maybe it's Wenger and his cronies swallowing up the money. We need factor that in when playing fantasy economics.

Everton are 49.9% owned by Farhad Moshiri, it’s fair to say they had more to spend than the proceeds of the Lukaku sale

[Cripps]

https://i.imgur.com/kWElWAam.jpg

[KSE Comedy Club]

Everton are 49.9% owned by Farhad Moshiri, it’s fair to say they had more to spend than the proceeds of the Lukaku sale

That’s a very Letters style answer.

[HCZ]

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/arsenal-player-salaries/

This is the Arsenal wage bill as of Feb 1st 2018 and that I’ve worked out comes to £101,320,000 a year

This is about in line with Liverpool and not significantly less than Chelsea’s wage bill

Any big name signing we make from now on is going to demand 100-150k a week minimum

Everton might have spend more than us on transfers but their wage bill is significantly smaller than ours (quite possibly Walcott and Rooney are their only 100k + players currently)

This also doesn’t figure in bonus clauses in the contract

I’ve never made the argument that we don’t have money. The amount we both spend on wages and actually as I stated above in the transfer market in the last five years suggests otherwise. But it’s done to a set structure, which might all well be bullshit compared to what the club makes. But it’s equally bullshit to make an assessment on what the club can spend compared to what it has spent by one summers transfer spending.

[Cripps]

That’s a very Letters style answer.

:lol:

[Power n Glory]

That’s a very Letters style answer.

I'm done.

[KSE Comedy Club]

http://www.totalsportek.com/money/arsenal-player-salaries/

This is the Arsenal wage bill as of Feb 1st 2018 and that I’ve worked out comes to £101,320,000 a year

This is about in line with Liverpool and not significantly less than Chelsea’s wage bill

Any big name signing we make from now on is going to demand 100-150k a week minimum

Everton might have spend more than us on transfers but their wage bill is significantly smaller than ours (quite possibly Walcott and Rooney are their only 100k + players currently)

This also doesn’t figure in bonus clauses in the contract

I’ve never made the argument that we don’t have money. The amount we both spend on wages and actually as I stated above in the transfer market in the last five years suggests otherwise. But it’s done to a set structure, which might all well be bullshit compared to what the club makes. But it’s equally bullshit to make an assessment on what the club can spend compared to what it has spent by one summers transfer spending.

So, we can easily cover the wage bill and have £40m left over, in TV revenue alone.

So what about annual gate recipients and merchandise sales? The clubs general
Commercial value at home and worldwide?

Millions & millions of ££££’s, plus the fact that we always turn a profit every transfer window.

We have plenty of money :good:

[HCZ]

You were done hours ago, but as per usual as with many of our debates. You tend to spend half the time trying to debunk points I never even made.

“it’s ridiculous to say Wenger wants to spend money”

Didn’t say that

“Your argument doesn’t work when you consider Everton”

Depends on what Everton are paying their players. Their wage bill comparative to ours is a lot smaller


“Mislintat would only have been responsible in pushing for us to sign Aubemeyang”

Didn’t claim he had anything to do with the player sales

[KSE Comedy Club]

I'm done.
I can see why, I don’t think you will get through on this one :shrug:

[HCZ]

So, we can easily cover the wage bill and have £40m left over, in TV revenue alone.

So what about annual gate recipients and merchandise sales? The clubs general
Commercial value at home and worldwide?

Millions & millions of ££££’s, plus the fact that we always turn a profit every transfer window.

We have plenty of money :good:

What was our operating profit the last time we published a financial statement (hint it wasn’t 100s of millions)

A lot of premiership clubs actually operate at a moderate loss so it’s not to say we are making less

The tv money is by far our biggest revenue, the wage bill by far our biggest outgoing

And where have I said we don’t have any money.

[Niall_Quinn]

Erm - we have hundreds of millions of quid to spend without having to tap cuntbag Stan up for a penny. This club is geared to make profit each year, by whatever means and at the expense of the football if that's what it takes. All that profit has been dumped in a bank account for some stupid reason. TV cash, sponsor cash, merchandising, player image rights, tours, prize money, players transfers. We must be fucking loaded up by now.

[HCZ]

That money sitting in the bank account is 180 million which I’ve said from the beginning

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cityam.com/272997/arsenal-finances-shrinking-cash-balance-and-four-other/amp

[Cripps]

Erm - we have hundreds of millions of quid to spend without having to tap cuntbag Stan up for a penny. This club is geared to make profit each year, by whatever means and at the expense of the football if that's what it takes. All that profit has been dumped in a bank account for some stupid reason. TV cash, sponsor cash, merchandising, player image rights, tours, prize money, players transfers. We must be fucking loaded up by now.

:gp:

HCZ takes another pasting :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

That money sitting in the bank account is 180 million which I’ve said from the beginning

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cityam.com/272997/arsenal-finances-shrinking-cash-balance-and-four-other/amp

It varies over the course of the season and peaked around a quarter billion last year IIRC. However much it is, it's more than any other club in the world has down the back of their sofa. And that's just one element of the cash avalanche hitting the club. Everything is geared to making as much money as possible. Sensible for a business. Catastrophic for a football club, in terms of sporting achievement. Well, it's easy enough to see that of course.

[HCZ]

The cash reserves don’t vary that much, because that is the cash you have to spend when all the financial obligations are met

Our revenue stream is increasing but so too are our outgoings, in the grand scheme of things unimportant but lord knows what we had to pay to that fat sweaty cunt Mino Raiola in January.

Forbes has us down as one of the richest clubs based on earning potential.

[Power n Glory]

That money sitting in the bank account is 180 million which I’ve said from the beginning

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cityam.com/272997/arsenal-finances-shrinking-cash-balance-and-four-other/amp

You originally said no club would spend all of their cash reserves but if you're saying a £50m player actually costs £100m.

But if you consider that if you want to sign one 50 million player, in addition you have the adds on, the wages which if you are not adding to your current wage bill is another 40 million over four years...and you are looking at up to 100 million (if you don’t sell that player in that time)

Wouldn't that mean we've just spent £200m and then add another £50m for Ozil's contract? ;)

[Power n Glory]

You were done hours ago, but as per usual as with many of our debates. You tend to spend half the time trying to debunk points I never even made.

“it’s ridiculous to say Wenger wants to spend money”

Didn’t say that

“Your argument doesn’t work when you consider Everton”

Depends on what Everton are paying their players. Their wage bill comparative to ours is a lot smaller


“Mislintat would only have been responsible in pushing for us to sign Aubemeyang”

Didn’t claim he had anything to do with the player sales

You introduced the discussion we had last week that was about Sven and the new DOF guy Raul. You introduced Ornstein to the debate along with his statement. Now you're trying the full spin. I asked you if you believed what was said about Wenger wanting to spend money because you introduced it like you believed it. A direct question which you spun and didn't answer. Spinning from Wenger not wanting to spend, to the club not wanting Wenger to spend but then you break down the math to say a significant amount is being spent! :lol: My head is spinning!

[HCZ]

The cash reserves are what we probably have give or take after the Aubemeyang sale

Plus as I’ve stated more than once the transfer budget would incorporate wages if the wages of the player coming in took the overall wage bill past what’s considered an acceptable limit (thus again talking about getting players off the wage bill before bringing new players in, the reason this whole tedious debate started)

The wages of Walcott, Coquelin, Giroud, Sanchez, Debuchy (probably about 20 million a year altogether)

Ozils new contract plus Aubemeyang and Mhkytarian (20 million added)

The sale of Ox, Walcott and Coquelin means we aren’t having to eat into the cash to bring in Aubemeyang

[HCZ]

You introduced the discussion we had last week that was about Sven and the new DOF guy Raul. You introduced Ornstein to the debate along with his statement. Now you're trying the full spin. I asked you if you believed what was said about Wenger wanting to spend money because you introduced it like you believed it. A direct question which you spun and didn't answer. Spinning from Wenger not wanting to spend, to the club not wanting Wenger to spend but then you break down the math to say a significant amount is being spent! :lol: My head is spinning!

As I said to you a few weeks ago it’s irksome to have a debate with someone who tells you what you’re saying when you’re not saying that.

No the point of the Ornstein comment was a response to you implying that the club having no cash to spend was purely spin for Wenger, and I asked if that was the case why would Wenger be stating there is cash to spend (unless he’s so stupid he’s shitting on his own spin).

Again I never claimed Wenger wanted to spend money where the club didn’t but again don’t let that stop you.

As i stated hours ago the club sets a transfer budget and if that budget is largely exhausted which may or may not include wages, agent fees, signing on fees, they will say that’s all the money we have to spend.

[HCZ]

My sentence structure isn’t always the best when I’m typing large amounts but honestly if you’re unclear what I’m saying just ask rather than assume.

Because I’m tired of having to rebut things I’ve not even claimed

Maybe I’m just being garrulous but I can sum up the point in a couple of sentences

Look at the Cityam article that I linked NQ to which suggests that although the revenue is increasing our cash reserves have fallen from where they were, now I don’t know why this is but what I can speculate on is that considering since 2013 we have spent over 300million on players that some of this has gone to towards that.
Now going forward I’ve also not said there is no money, but I suspect that the club wants to keep its current wage structure rather than get it up to say the Man City level which would mean having to sell players to get them off the wage bill before we buy significantly in the summer.

If you find fault with any of that, great don’t care

[HCZ]

I’m going to bed, if you feel the need to argue pointlessly for hours in future let me know and I will make bullet point presentations in my post so you don’t get confused over what I have or haven’t claimed.

[Cripps]

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about or what point you're trying to make :lol:

Fakeyank was right, you just talk a load of BS :lol:

[Power n Glory]

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about or what point you're trying to make :lol:

Fakeyank was right, you just talk a load of BS :lol:

:gp:

[Power n Glory]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk5FZm1eCjw

This stuff Wenger comes out with in regards to things being more predictable because of the amount of money in football...nobody asked for his opinion on it. :lol: He just offers it up when talking about why Aubameyang has come to England. Check from 13 minutes in.

Worth watching the rest. I don't know the Mirror is getting this click bait stuff about him regretting not selling Sanchez and confirming that Sanchez is getting paid a huge amount of money. They posted up the press conference on their page but have headlines that I haven't heard Wenger say in this conference.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsene-wenger-hints-what-alexis-11962396

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The cash reserves are what we probably have give or take after the Aubemeyang sale

Plus as I’ve stated more than once the transfer budget would incorporate wages if the wages of the player coming in took the overall wage bill past what’s considered an acceptable limit (thus again talking about getting players off the wage bill before bringing new players in, the reason this whole tedious debate started)

The wages of Walcott, Coquelin, Giroud, Sanchez, Debuchy (probably about 20 million a year altogether)

Ozils new contract plus Aubemeyang and Mhkytarian (20 million added)

The sale of Ox, Walcott and Coquelin means we aren’t having to eat into the cash to bring in Aubemeyang


As I said to you a few weeks ago it’s irksome to have a debate with someone who tells you what you’re saying when you’re not saying that.

No the point of the Ornstein comment was a response to you implying that the club having no cash to spend was purely spin for Wenger, and I asked if that was the case why would Wenger be stating there is cash to spend (unless he’s so stupid he’s shitting on his own spin).

Again I never claimed Wenger wanted to spend money where the club didn’t but again don’t let that stop you.

As i stated hours ago the club sets a transfer budget and if that budget is largely exhausted which may or may not include wages, agent fees, signing on fees, they will say that’s all the money we have to spend.

Im not overly keen on the accountants/financial advisors wet dream debates..... but I've always found it slightly odd that an ongoing/continuous cost....i.e. Wages would be included in a 'transfer budget'. Though from what you say above I'm not clear if you think it is or isn't.

In any case if we under delegate sums to the transfer budget (in light of the huge sums we actually make and have) then the ' we have no money ' cry can always be dubiously used and frankly becomes a nonsense as a standalone figure and argument.

[HCZ]

Im not overly keen on the accountants/financial advisors wet dream debates..... but I've always found it slightly odd that an ongoing/continuous cost....i.e. Wages would be included in a 'transfer budget'. Though from what you say above I'm not clear if you think it is or isn't.

In any case if we under delegate sums to the transfer budget (in light of the huge sums we actually make and have) then the ' we have no money ' cry can always be dubiously used and frankly becomes a nonsense as a standalone figure and argument.

I’m not saying we don’t have money

For the millionth time

[Cripps]

Im not overly keen on the accountants/financial advisors wet dream debates..... but I've always found it slightly odd that an ongoing/continuous cost....i.e. Wages would be included in a 'transfer budget'. Though from what you say above I'm not clear if you think it is or isn't.

In any case if we under delegate sums to the transfer budget (in light of the huge sums we actually make and have) then the ' we have no money ' cry can always be dubiously used and frankly becomes a nonsense as a standalone figure and argument.

Spot on. Only a complete numpty like HCZ can argue we have no money.

HCZ :haha:

[Power n Glory]

Im not overly keen on the accountants/financial advisors wet dream debates..... but I've always found it slightly odd that an ongoing/continuous cost....i.e. Wages would be included in a 'transfer budget'. Though from what you say above I'm not clear if you think it is or isn't.

In any case if we under delegate sums to the transfer budget (in light of the huge sums we actually make and have) then the ' we have no money ' cry can always be dubiously used and frankly becomes a nonsense as a standalone figure and argument.

It makes no sense and not clear what's been said. All I know is that we're being conned. Again. To the point where it sounds as if Everton are in a better financial position than us! That's how far these sort of debates go.

[HCZ]

It makes no sense and not clear what's been said. All I know is that we're being conned. Again. To the point where it sounds as if Everton are in a better financial position than us! That's how far these sort of debates go.

I’ll add that to the list of things I didn’t say

As best as I could last night I broke it down into a paragraph for you.

But I’m interested in what you think, I’ve stated throughout that the amount of cash we have in the bank is 180million, and quite possibly some of it is earmarked for other things.
Do you think there is vastly more being hidden away somewhere?. And if so to whose benefit would that be?

[Power n Glory]

I’ll add that to the list of things I didn’t say

As best as I could last night I broke it down into a paragraph for you.

But I’m interested in what you think, I’ve stated throughout that the amount of cash we have in the bank is 180million, and quite possibly some of it is earmarked for other things.
Do you think there is vastly more being hidden away somewhere?. And if so to whose benefit would that be?

You didn't say that, I said it sounds as if Everton are in a better financial position than us. You didn't dispute it either.

I posted the following after you're claim that a £50m player could actually work out to be £100m.


So how much are Liverpool and Everton spending on players? Did Everton blow all their Lukkau money on Sigurdsson? So it wasn't £45m they spent...it was closer to £75m- 85m? But then again, they're also paying Rooney's wages, Theo Walcott plus his wages...would that mean they've paid close to £60m for Theo? What about Keane, Pickford, Klaasenn and Tosun? Does the £20m - £25m they paid for each of those players really work out to be £40m - £50m a pop? That's working out to be over £300m spent in season by Everton!

This is the response I got.


Everton are 49.9% owned by Farhad Moshiri, it’s fair to say they had more to spend than the proceeds of the Lukaku sale

I mean, seriously! It gets to the point where these just sound like poorly researched rebuttals just to fill in the gaps for what the club hasn't told us. I'm checking out of this one. It will go on and on.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I’m not saying we don’t have money

For the millionth time
I think my actual point was more nuanced than that Sherbert, but okay thanks for the reminder!

[HCZ]

You didn't say that, I said it sounds as if Everton are in a better financial position than us. You didn't dispute it either.

I posted the following after you're claim that a £50m player could actually work out to be £100m.



This is the response I got.


I mean, seriously! It gets to the point where these just sound like poorly researched rebuttals just to fill in the gaps for what the club hasn't told us. I'm checking out of this one. It will go on and on.

You weren’t invited to start a debate in the first place

Moshiri has stated himself that he has invested in the club both with players and infrastructure (still looking to get themselves a new stadium)

On top of that I made the point that the wages these new signings were on were likely to be less than what we’d have to pay any player joining us.

But you’re right this is circular. The whole argument started on the premise that we’d have to get rid of players to get them off the wage bill and probably bolster what we would spend in order to recruit heavily in the summer. You didn’t like that and then this tedious pointless back and forth happens

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It's time to wave goodbye. :wave: