Winter Transfer Despair and Bafflement.

[Cripps]

Don't fret, we have Gilles Grimandi as one of our chief talent scouts. He's managed to miss securing any of this new golden generation breaking through in France despite being based there. I mean how is this even possible? :haha:

:lol: he spotted sanogo ahead of mbappe. Give him a break.

[Letters]

Zim:bow:

Post of the year tbh
It has been a slow year :coffee:

[Cripps]

It has been a slow year :coffee:

You didn't answer my question yesterday Letters. When are you doing the honourable thing?

[Letters]

:lol: Always bites.

[Cripps]

That wasn't a bite and you know it :lol:

I'm just saying you're a moderator on a forum where you're disliked, maybe it's time to re-evaluate :shrug:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I’ve got thirty minutes left at work

I could response to a particularly angry email

I could.....:popcorn:

[GP]

Shit, I should have done some work today.

[Niall_Quinn]

Shit, I should have done some work today.

I did.

Me :bow:

On the downside, I still have about a week's worth of the shit to go. Work is the stupidest and most inconvenient thing ever invented.

[GP]

I did.

Me :bow:

On the downside, I still have about a week's worth of the shit to go. Work is the stupidest and most inconvenient thing ever invented.

You should be like a certain former poster and just be a deadbeat freeloader your whole life.

[Letters]

I've had a reasonably productive day but have less* days left this week than I really need to get done everything I need to get done
* - Just to make HCZ feel at home.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You should be like a certain former poster and just be a deadbeat freeloader your whole life.

That doesn’t really narrow it down

[GP]

That doesn’t really narrow it down

Precisely.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

https://i.imgflip.com/bxov3.jpg
I've had a reasonably productive day but have less* days left this week than I really need to get done everything I need to get done
* - Just to make HCZ feel at home.

[Niall_Quinn]

You should be like a certain former poster and just be a deadbeat freeloader your whole life.

Don't have enough cash to be one of those.

[Cripps]

Wilshere to Betis apparently :lol:

Safe to say that probably won't be happening.

[Özim]

Wilshere will be gone in the summer, no great loss but another player we'll need to find a replacement for. With no money coming in for the 3 players leaving, they'll have to find someone else to sell to make up the numbers.

I know Wenger is allegedly still there because of the profit he makes, but with us losing what is it about 75 million worth of players (players we paid a transfer for) next summer even his profit making won't be an excuse as we'll no doubt make a loss.

Interesting thing about our transfer policy is that ever summer we make a signing before the season ticket renewal deadline, then after the deadline activity is pretty much dead, it's almost as if we're just trying to get people to buy season tickets and dupe them into thinking we're going do a serious summers' business.

In the end last summer we sold a few players and made a profit, but even if we had signed Lemar (for the ridiculous amount of 92 million) we still made sure that Sanchez/Ox/Chesney/Gabriel/Gibbs covered most of the money spent (epsecially when you factor salarries off the wage bill).

I'm amazed match day goes don't feel utterly ripped off.

[Power n Glory]

That's always been the pattern for a while now. We had the debate earlier this summer about having a 'good start' to our summer transfer activity but we always start early and then we're all waiting for deadline day news.

[Cripps]

You know rumour mill will be on full blast this summer. In fact, maybe more than ever as big players are likely to leave and fan morale will be very low.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger already has the answer. He spoke yesterday about the "sit down" at the end of the year and explained that's nothing of significance, it happens every year. Supposedly. So he'll be staying. Can't find the article now, but for anyone who does it's worth a read just to see how far Wenger is prepared to go to torture intent, context and language. This bunch have already told us we're over-performing in comparison to our rivals. Wenger has told us we're hot on the heels of the gypos in terms of expected goals. Players running down their contracts is ideal, if you recall. I'm sure they can find a new metric to explain how marvellous we've been in the transfer window. Thee people are exposed but they don't care and they don't need to care.

[Cripps]

Expected goals :lol:

[Cripps]

Fellaini is a free agent in the summer

:run:

[Penguin]

Wenger already has the answer. He spoke yesterday about the "sit down" at the end of the year and explained that's nothing of significance, it happens every year. Supposedly. So he'll be staying. Can't find the article now, but for anyone who does it's worth a read just to see how far Wenger is prepared to go to torture intent, context and language. This bunch have already told us we're over-performing in comparison to our rivals. Wenger has told us we're hot on the heels of the gypos in terms of expected goals. Players running down their contracts is ideal, if you recall. I'm sure they can find a new metric to explain how marvellous we've been in the transfer window. Thee people are exposed but they don't care and they don't need to care.

We're in the top three clubs in the world at the 'expected transfers' stat.

[Cripps]

Barca want ozil in January apparently and think they can get him for less than £20m.

Makes sense tbh

Much cheaper than coutinho.
Suited to Spanish league.
Under a half decent manager would get back to good form.
Eligible for champions league.

The amount of assists he'd have in that team is ridiculous.

[Niall_Quinn]

If they want to keep Ozil and Alexis, and eventually any player, somebody at this club needs to make a statement on what the plan is. If the plan is to continue building share value and bank reserves, which it's totally fair to assume, then say so and shut the club down. Otherwise, what's the plan? When will this club be challenging for titles again and what steps are being taken to put the challenge on place.

If such a plan exists, it appears to currently consist of:

1. Losing our best players.
2. Retaining a manager that hasn't challenged for a title in a decade.

Which is no plan at all, in fact it's the reverse of what's required.

Who will have the balls, in the last few weeks remaining, to put something on the table and then back it in the January transfer window?

Twice we've seen Ozil, Alexis and Lacazette start in a reasonable sane system and on both occasions we've performed well. If we're going forward with that then somebody better get a move on. If we aren't then somebody needs to find 200 million to repair the damage and get us back to square one.

I suppose we'll just drift on into January and nothing at all will be done.

[Özim]

If they want to keep Ozil and Alexis, and eventually any player, somebody at this club needs to make a statement on what the plan is. If the plan is to continue building share value and bank reserves, which it's totally fair to assume, then say so and shut the club down. Otherwise, what's the plan? When will this club be challenging for titles again and what steps are being taken to put the challenge on place.

If such a plan exists, it appears to currently consist of:

1. Losing our best players.
2. Retaining a manager that hasn't challenged for a title in a decade.

Which is no plan at all, in fact it's the reverse of what's required.

Who will have the balls, in the last few weeks remaining, to put something on the table and then back it in the January transfer window?

Twice we've seen Ozil, Alexis and Lacazette start in a reasonable sane system and on both occasions we've performed well. If we're going forward with that then somebody better get a move on. If we aren't then somebody needs to find 200 million to repair the damage and get us back to square one.

I suppose we'll just drift on into January and nothing at all will be done.

Ozil and Sanchez are gone, if they wanted to stay they'd have signed by now we have to be realistic, there's nothing stopping them except for the fact they don't want to. There's nothing we can do now to change their minds, I personally think we'll have them till the summer as clubs would be mad to pay for them in Jan when they can have them for free 6 months later, they must be laughing at these mooted swap deals for contracted player with years left on their contracts.

The club will try and flaunt them around to grab so cash from somewhere, other clubs will probably laugh in their face and then pick them up for nothing in the summer with a simple thank you very much you bunch of losers.

[Niall_Quinn]

Silly Bollocks is going back to Schalke for Leon Goretzka. 22. Attacking midfielder. Price is smack in the sweet spot - free. Our perfect replacement for Ozil. No transfer fee, half the wages or less. The gypos and Juve are also interested, so if they don't snap him up we could be in with a shout.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Silly Bollocks is going back to Schalke for Leon Goretzka. 22. Attacking midfielder. Price is smack in the sweet spot - free. Our perfect replacement for Ozil. No transfer fee, half the wages or less. The gypos and Juve are also interested, so if they don't snap him up we could be in with a shout.

Sleep is evidently not your friend

[Cripps]

Just checked his stats

This season got 4 goals 0 assists so far.
Last season got 8 goals 4 assists.

Ozil last season got 12 goals 12 assists.

But this guy is younger and hasn't hit his peak yet. Would prefer to replace ozil with someone more proven but never seen him play so don't know what he's like tbh.

I like the fact he's 6 ft 2, which along with recent signings like xhaka, elneny and Kolasinac adds some presence to the team.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sleep is evidently not your friend

I do most of my best work at night.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I do most of my best work at night.

Does walking around bollock naked swigging from a bottle of Glenfidich and singing along to brothers in arms by Dire Straits really count as work?

[Niall_Quinn]

Does walking around bollock naked swigging from a bottle of Glenfidich and singing along to brothers in arms by Dire Straits really count as work?

Dire Straits :haha:

I don't think so.

[Cripps]

I do most of my best work at night.

Criminal activity :bow:

Niall Montana :bow:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Dire Straits :haha:

I don't think so.

Don’t be coy, we’ve all heard the recording of you slurring along to Sultans of Swing

[Niall_Quinn]

Don’t be coy, we’ve all heard the recording of you slurring along to Sultans of Swing

Dodgy geezers sitting outside my squat and fooling nobody with their fake moustaches might have heard that, on occasion, I suppose.

[Cripps]

Herbert's posting regularly today:bow:

Back to slacking :bow:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Herbert's posting regularly today:bow:

Back to slacking :bow:

You can’t return to something you never gave up on

[Cripps]

Ozils asking for £330k a week from Barca apparently :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

Ozils asking for £330k a week from Barca apparently :coffee:

That'll be the signing-on bonus he would get in the summer rolled into his main demand. These are the prices that have to be paid - thanks to clubs like Barca.

[Cripps]

Wenger says ozil and Sanchez will be staying until end of season unless something "unbelievable happens" :coffee:

In other words if someone stumps up enough money they're gone :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

There is a long list of big name stars that Arsenal have bungled signing. Recently it was Kylian Mbappe and most famously it was Zlatan 'I don't do auditions' Ibrahimovic.

Add another name to the nearly men of north London: Antoine Griezmann. In the summer of 2013 Griezmann was coming off a season where he had broken into double figures for goals for the first time for Real Sociedad and clubs were taking note.

Specifically the then 22-year-old was attracting interest from Arsenal, with Griezmann's former agent Eric Olhats in touch with Gunners' scout Gilles Grimandi.

That same window saw Arsenal fail to land Luis Suarez with the infamous £40million and £1 bid and could only stand by as Gonzalo Higuain opted for Juventus over the Emirates.

Griezmann has revealed himself to be another potential Arsenal striker who saw his move to the Emirates collapse and as a result he has ruled out ever moving to the club.

He writes in his new autobiography of the mini-saga: 'I waited, I waited, and I kept waiting. When there was no news, Eric called Grimandi, who said that the manager was still interested in me [and] to keep waiting.

'Finally a few hours before the market closed, he let us know Arsenal would not make a move. I don't like to be told something and for it not to happen.

'So when Eric told me later that the London club were interested again I told him "Forget it, after the blow they gave us".'

Thankfully Arsenal signed Yaya Sanogo that summer.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5128165/New-Arsenal-transfer-blunder-revealed-Antoine-Griezmann.html

[Cripps]

Yaya Sanogo :haha: :haha:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

This is really masochism now....

[Özim]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5128165/New-Arsenal-transfer-blunder-revealed-Antoine-Griezmann.html

Well done Wenger again, I wonder where we'd be if we'd got rid of the guy years ago, probably challenging for the CL and PL by now.

[Power n Glory]

Yaya Sanogo :haha: :haha:

Let it be known...Gazidis has nothing to do with transfers.

As said on the other thread, Wenger's so quick to poke his chest out when feeling attacked. Fans have been too quick to shield him from accountability. Let him take the hit for these sort of fuck ups.

[Niall_Quinn]

Let it be known...Gazidis has nothing to do with transfers.

As said on the other thread, Wenger's so quick to poke his chest out when feeling attacked. Fans have been too quick to shield him from accountability. Let him take the hit for these sort of fuck ups.

Precisely.

By his own words, the stupid £40mill + £1 farce, the window where all we signed was a keeper, the gaping holes in the squad that were left unfilled for years and... Yaya Sanogo.

All Wenger.

There are landmines whichever way he tries to twist and turn. All laid lovingly by him. All leapt on, by him.

[AFC Leveller]

to be fair he was too busy at the time commentating for TF1, the transfer window shut too early for him.

[Letters]

Having to work through the back catalogue of moans I see until Wenger releases a new terrible album.
Which, to be fair, is generally not that far away.

[Özim]

Hopefully, for everyones' sake his new album is called

"I Quit"

With classics like:

"Spirit and Togetherness"
"2% Away"
"I didn't see it"
"I almost signed..."
"Everyone thinks they know better but I've got 20,000 subs"
"Super Super Quality"
'I Don't Need a Captain for my Ship"
"I'm Yacht Ready to Leave"

and most importantly

"Never Coming Back"

[Letters]

That's actually not bad, for you :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Having to work through the back catalogue of moans I see until Wenger releases a new terrible album.
Which, to be fair, is generally not that far away.

Talk to Wenger if you don't like having to examine the contradictions between his latest bullshit and prior claims and actions. It is becoming increasingly clear, based on his own words, just how huge a problem he has been over the last few years. Hopefully the new blood being brought in can limit some of the damage, or even reverse it. Wenger has already moved to try and stamp his egomaniacal authority on these latest moves so if the fans want to see anything positive develop they'll need to keep the heat on the old fraud and ensure he can't worm his way back to business as usual.

[selassie]

Let it be known...Gazidis has nothing to do with transfers.

As said on the other thread, Wenger's so quick to poke his chest out when feeling attacked. Fans have been too quick to shield him from accountability. Let him take the hit for these sort of fuck ups.

Too right, Wenger has botched window after window with his dithering and principled stance on player valuations. I’m glad we are going to have a couple of new guys on board because Wenger needs to be challenged and pushed when it comes to player recruitment.

[Letters]

Well done Wenger again, I wonder where we'd be if we'd got rid of the guy years ago, probably challenging for the CL and PL by now.

Can't argue with that.


Mostly because it's pure unverifiable speculation.

[Niall_Quinn]

Too right, Wenger has botched window after window with his dithering and principled stance on player valuations. I’m glad we are going to have a couple of new guys on board because Wenger needs to be challenged and pushed off a bridge.

:gp:

[Özim]

Can't argue with that.


Mostly because it's pure unverifiable speculation.

You're right, what we do know is we have top 4......or not...

[Letters]

You're right, what we do know is we have top 4......or not...

And 0 trophies :sulk:
Well. Apart from this year. And two years ago. And the year before that.

Awful manager :bow:
Average squad :bow:



:run:

[Cripps]

Hopefully, for everyones' sake his new album is called

"I Quit"

With classics like:

"Spirit and Togetherness"
"2% Away"
"I didn't see it"
"I almost signed..."
"Everyone thinks they know better but I've got 20,000 subs"
"Super Super Quality"
'I Don't Need a Captain for my Ship"
"I'm Yacht Ready to Leave"

and most importantly

"Never Coming Back"

:haha: :haha: :haha:

Zim hits the half a million mark.

Zim 500,000 - 0 Letters

Letters :haha: :pal:

[selassie]

:gp:

:lol:

[Özim]

And 0 trophies :sulk:
Well. Apart from this year. And two years ago. And the year before that.

Awful manager :bow:
Average squad :bow:



:run:

Almost right, we have a few tin pot trophies no other big club values on their own, good enough for an average manager and squad though I guess.

Wenger :bow:

[Letters]

Almost right, we have a few tin pot trophies
Shall I dig out your reaction to us winning it again? ;)

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

How is the FA cup a tin pot trophy?

[Letters]

How is the FA cup a tin pot trophy?

When it suits your agenda.

[Niall_Quinn]

This loop again?

Again?

Letters never tires of it.

Summary so everyone can be spared.

Obvious statement #1: Football fans like it when their team wins a cup.

Letters trying to paint Wenger as successful on the back of fans being pleased at winning a cup is as disingenuous as it is comical. Which is a lot.

Obvious statement #2: Winning the FA Cup in no way, shape or form excuses Wenger's failure to compete for a title for over a decade and absolutely does not excuse his painfully laughable European record.

Wenger is painted as a top manager. Look at his record. He hasn't been a top manager for over a decade. The evidence is all there.

Obvious statement #3: Wenger has seriously underperformed given the resources at his disposal.

It's not the failure to win, it's the failure to even compete that's so shocking. Winning FA Cups does not excuse his failure.

End loop. Once and for all?

[Letters]

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=629&page=2

Poll: Do you still want Wenger as Arsenal manager?


"I voted yes. Because we are Arsenal fans and we are allowed to criticise the club, the manager, the players and anything we want related to Arsenal. Because we're part of it. But when some outside cunt starts taking the piss out of our club or manager they can fuck off and die really. I'd rather see us relegated than watch the media gorge themselves in this feeding frenzy they are trying to whip up with Wenger as the main course. And do you know how they are trying to excuse their behaviour? They're saying all they are doing is reflecting the feelings of the fans. So I won't be one of those fans and I don't think any other Arsenal fan should be either. We're under attack now, we don't disintegrate or run away, we stick together and stick two fingers up and them. Wenger, for all his current faults, has done too much for this club to deserve being ripped apart by the media and served up to them on a platter by the fans."
- Niall_Quinn, 21/08/2011

Right in the middle of the "over a decade of failure".

Revisionism. :bow:

And of course, NQ, you supported Wenger signing a new contract a mere 3 years ago after the first FA Cup win. So stop pretending it's all so black and white as you now make out.

[Cripps]

This loop again?

Again?

Letters never tires of it.

Summary so everyone can be spared.

Obvious statement #1: Football fans like it when their team wins a cup.

Letters trying to paint Wenger as successful on the back of fans being pleased at winning a cup is as disingenuous as it is comical. Which is a lot.

Obvious statement #2: Winning the FA Cup in no way, shape or form excuses Wenger's failure to compete for a title for over a decade and absolutely does not excuse his painfully laughable European record.

Wenger is painted as a top manager. Look at his record. He hasn't been a top manager for over a decade. The evidence is all there.

Obvious statement #3: Wenger has seriously underperformed given the resources at his disposal.

It's not the failure to win, it's the failure to even compete that's so shocking. Winning FA Cups does not excuse his failure.

End loop. Once and for all?

NQ proving once again why he's the best poster on here and why he's regarded as the Pep of the forum, whilst Letters is the David Moyes of the forum :pal:

But anyway stop criticising Wenger or you'll be reprimanded! How dare you speak of Letters' messiah like that! :sulk: any minute now he'll pop up and defend Wenger, oh wait he's already done it, and quoted a post from... 2011 :haha:

[Power n Glory]

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=629&page=2

Poll: Do you still want Wenger as Arsenal manager?



Right in the middle of the "over a decade of failure".

Revisionism. :bow:

And of course, NQ, you supported Wenger signing a new contract a mere 3 years ago after the first FA Cup win. So stop pretending it's all so black and white as you now make out.

How long did it take you to dig up a post from 2011? NQ has over 50,000 posts.

Also, that's not a great example. NQ said he voted yes because he didn't want Wenger pushed out by the media but clearly states fans are allowed to criticise the manager.

But either way, people are allowed to change their mind. We were all in favour of Wenger having a job for life at Arsenal at one point.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=629&page=2

Poll: Do you still want Wenger as Arsenal manager?



Right in the middle of the "over a decade of failure".

Revisionism. :bow:

And of course, NQ, you supported Wenger signing a new contract a mere 3 years ago after the first FA Cup win. So stop pretending it's all so black and white as you now make out.

Over 6 years ago :doh:

And in response to the media attacking the club and the manager. The media being one of the few institutions I loathe more than Wenger.

So what are you saying Letters? Because 6 years ago I didn't want to see Wenger ripped apart, now 6 years on and not within a mile of a challenge, having even dropped out of that cherished 4th place spot, Wenger gets a perpetual free pass? What if he robs your house? All is forgiven because 6 years ago I said I wouldn't support the media in their attacks on him?

It's so sad this all has to be explained to you, again. Such is your desperation to support the man, you have to resort to this. But you don't have the guts to openly come out and support him. Instead you try to find ways to pretend those who criticise him are somehow irrelevant, thereby making the criticism disappear in your mind, I suppose.

Then there's the FA Cup thing, again. And the contract before last, again. And despite the fact we've gone over this many times (you couldn't find any of those posts, I notice), and despite the fact the support was clearly qualified as based on him continuing to make the big name signings that seemed (at the time) to mark a shift in policy, and despite the fact he's instead fucked up the subsequent transfer windows in the most spectacular fashion and fucked up player contracts as badly as it is possible to fuck them up, here you are pretending all of that's forgivable because a guy on a forum said, years ago, it was worth giving him another shot to see if he could overturn a catalogue of failure?

Well he didn't. So yes, here we are stuck with his decade of fuck-ups. Keep apologising for him, it's what you do best. You don't watch the games, but you watch the forum to ensure nobody has criticised Wenger. Tragic really.

[Özim]

Over 6 years ago :doh:

And in response to the media attacking the club and the manager. The media being one of the few institutions I loathe more than Wenger.

So what are you saying Letters? Because 6 years ago I didn't want to see Wenger ripped apart, now 6 years on and not within a mile of a challenge, having even dropped out of that cherished 4th place spot, Wenger gets a perpetual free pass? What if he robs your house? All is forgiven because 6 years ago I said I wouldn't support the media in their attacks on him?

:haha: Totally ridiculous point he makes, to think that in 6 years you can't change your view is proposperous!

[Cripps]

Yeah Letters, are people not allowed to change their view?

Well here's yours from 2012:


Yes, we've failed to win a trophy again but we look like we've got something to build on. I'd agree it's not the first time but I also think changing managers would set us back and destroy the momentum we've built up.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1341&page=16&p=122768&viewfull=1#post122768

:haha: :haha:

[Letters]

Yes. I have changed my mind about Wenger
I hoped he would push us on when the money became available. He didn't.
What I haven't done is backdated my views 10+ years or started pretending I think Wenger is suddenly a dribbling imbecile.
It's all the hyperbolic nonsense I find tiresome.

[Özim]

Yeah Letters, are people not allowed to change their view?

Well here's yours from 2012:



http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1341&page=16&p=122768&viewfull=1#post122768

:haha: :haha:

:lol: Must be the new phenomena called backward momentum where you regress or something

[Özim]

Yes. I have changed my mind about Wenger
I hoped he would push us on when the money became available. He didn't.
What I haven't done is backdated my views 10+ years or started pretending I think Wenger is suddenly a dribbling imbecile.
It's all the hyperbolic nonsense I find tiresome.

If Wenger hadn't failed so misreably you'd be the first one piping up telling people how they were wrong and how you told us he was great, the thing is you can't because he's been pretty poor and people are calling him out.

He's not much of a manager, everyone can see that, he's been shown up for what he is now, there's no denying that, he's been called out left right and center and most people don't respect him anymore,

Moreover noone really wants him here either and he's making the fanbase turn off.

[Cripps]

Yes. I have changed my mind about Wenger.

:pal: :console:

[Letters]

If Wenger hadn't failed so misreably you'd be the first one piping up telling people how they were wrong and how you told us he was great, the thing is you can't because he's been pretty poor and people are calling him out.
I thought we should stick with him and hoped that the first FA Cup was the sign of greater things to come. The signing of Ozil and Sanchez seemed like the start of a new transfer policy which could potentially push us on. It's increasingly clear that it wasn't and that Wenger will never land us another title. So yeah, #WengerOut. And had it gone the way I hoped then yes of course I'd be pleased we stuck with him and would feel vindicated. But just because it didn't go that way, that doesn't mean that I now think he is "awful" or has assembled an "average" squad. We're back in the top 4 right now FFS, he can't be doing absolutely everything wrong. Is it really so hard to have a more nuanced view?

[Cripps]

I thought we should stick with him and hoped that the first FA Cup was the sign of greater things to come.

Well, that's not true, is it. You were Wenger out in 2011, then Wenger in in 2012, and now you're Wenger out again.

Here's you in 2011, a year before the previous quote. Title 'should wenger be replaced as Arsenal manager?' :


I've gone for yes. No other club at this level would have kept a manager after this many years without a trophy.
He's failed to address some fairly obvious flaws in the squad.
I do think we'll get worse after he goes but I just need someone I believe in again.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=46&p=523&viewfull=1#post523

But I thought you're not allowed to change your view Letters:haha:

Letters once again on his hypocritical high horse :coffee:

[Letters]

So what are you saying Letters? Because 6 years ago I didn't want to see Wenger ripped apart, now 6 years on and not within a mile of a challenge, having even dropped out of that cherished 4th place spot, Wenger gets a perpetual free pass?
No, I'm absolutely not saying that. Why do you always keep building this straw man?
I've repeatedly said I think he should be sacked. You don't seem to believe I actually think that though, as if you think it's completely impossible to think Wenger should be sacked without thinking he's as bad as some on here make out.

Giving him a free pass and criticising ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING he does are not the only two options.

Just because I don't think he's a dribbling imbecile who cannot do a single thing right does not mean I "support the man". These are not the only two options.
Just because I don't think he's a dribbling imbecile who cannot do a single thing right does not mean I think that the last few transfer windows are a roaring success which deserve no criticism. These are not the only two options.
Just because I don't think he's a dribbling imbecile who cannot do a single thing right does not mean I think that nobody should criticise Wenger. These are not the only two options. I have criticised him myself when he's done crazy things like put Giroud and Lacazette on the bench at Anfield and the Ethiad.

Is this really so difficult to understand? Really?

[Letters]

Well, that's not true, is it. You were Wenger out in 2011, then Wenger in in 2012, and now you're Wenger out again.
It's almost like I have the ability to change my mind over time depending on changing information.
As I said to Zim a while back (I note he ignored the point), constancy of opinion as information changes is not something to aspire to. It's constancy of opinion which means we still have a Flat Earth Society.
For the hard of thinking, it's not people changing their opinion I've ever had a problem with. It's people doing so and then pretending they always held the previous opinion.
And it's people being unable to argue in any shades of grey. If you don't think Wenger is a **** and everything he does should be criticised then clearly you an AKB who thinks Wenger can do no wrong and should stay at the club forever.
Those really aren't the only two options.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes. I have changed my mind about Wenger
I hoped he would push us on when the money became available. He didn't.
What I haven't done is backdated my views 10+ years or started pretending I think Wenger is suddenly a dribbling imbecile.
It's all the hyperbolic nonsense I find tiresome.

Nobody is backdating their views. Over the last decade there was a point where Wenger COULD HAVE turned it around. He passed it up and carried on with his usual old shit. Which resulted in what? No title challenge. Not even close. Not even when everyone else imploded except Leicester City, a club with a fraction of the resources at Wenger's disposal. When literally everything went his way he still fucked it up. Some people, myself included, gave him the benefit of the doubt at the time. One last chance to prove he wasn't totally out of his depth. And he blew it, leaving no doubt whatsoever. He's a fraud, a has-been. Over 10 years without a sniff and, unbelievably, his European record is getting worse. 10-2 against Bayern? Twice? Seriously?

There's no debate to be had. His record speaks for itself.

But for some reason you refuse to see it, constantly trying to replace these grand failures at the top level with FA cup wins. Cup wins are a one day distraction from the main event. An event Wenger hasn't had the ability to get within a mile of in over 10 years now. So tell me, where's the revisionism? What's hyperbolic about pointing to the guy's record and calling him out on the facts? He is a shitty manager, because he's got the record to prove it. Almost 10 million quid for the shit he shovels?

I know you keep repeating all that guff about wanting him gone, etc, etc. And yet you have this enduring need to leap in and defend every criticism made against him. Worse, you dive in and WUM at the slightest upturn in events as if they are a seismic shift and every doubter has been proven wrong and warrants ridicule. But you're the ridiculous one. The guy who even now defends this manager you supposedly want to see sacked. Nuanced you say? Bizarre more like. Some sort of cultish obsession.

10 years of failure Letters. This is Arsenal FC, not that shitty little lot down at the lane and certainly not Arsene FC. But for as long as a section of the fan base keeps defending this guy's indefensible record, we'll be stuck in this time loop and it wouldn't surprise me if another 10 years from now you'll be sat here putting lipstick on 20 years of dross and laughing at greying supporters who are on their knees begging the old goat to fuck off.

[Cripps]

It's almost like I have the ability to change my mind over time depending on changing information.
As I said to Zim a while back (I note he ignored the point), constancy of opinion as information changes is not something to aspire to. It's constancy of opinion which means we still have a Flat Earth Society.
For the hard of thinking, it's not people changing their opinion I've ever had a problem with. It's people doing so and then pretending they always held the previous opinion.
And it's people being unable to argue in any shades of grey. If you don't think Wenger is a **** and everything he does should be criticised then clearly you an AKB who thinks Wenger can do no wrong and should stay at the club forever.
Those really aren't the only two options.

Blah blah. You got on your high horse and ridiculed NQ for changing his opinion and revisionism and when you were found out for doing the same you go into some defensive bollocks and philosophical crap :coffee:

Hypocritical Letters :lol: that'll be another one to the list:console:

[Niall_Quinn]

No, I'm absolutely not saying that. Why do you always keep building this straw man?
I've repeatedly said I think he should be sacked. You don't seem to believe I actually think that though, as if you think it's completely impossible to think Wenger should be sacked without thinking he's as bad as some on here make out.

Giving him a free pass and criticising ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING he does are not the only two options.

Just because I don't think he's a dribbling imbecile who cannot do a single thing right does not mean I "support the man". These are not the only two options.
Just because I don't think he's a dribbling imbecile who cannot do a single thing right does not mean I think that the last few transfer windows are a roaring success which deserve no criticism. These are not the only two options.
Just because I don't think he's a dribbling imbecile who cannot do a single thing right does not mean I think that nobody should criticise Wenger. These are not the only two options. I have criticised him myself when he's done crazy things like put Giroud and Lacazette on the bench at Anfield and the Ethiad.

Is this really so difficult to understand? Really?

Yeah. Coming from you it's impossible to understand.

If the goal is to get Wenger out then where's the advantage in monitoring this place to ensure anything you consider beyond your self adjudicated boundary is picked up and addressed? Isn't that the typical behaviour of a supporter, rather than a critic? You could just leave stuff alone. You could express your own opinion. Or you could engage in any of the other debates that crop up. Transfer dealings. The power struggle behind the scenes. Whatever.

Instead, you WUM. You're oh so coy and reasonable when challenged. But have a look back over the last few weeks and what will you see? Digs at other posters about average squads and awful managers. You don't attack the man you want sacked, but you do attack those who want to see him sacked.

Can you see why I have a problem understanding and believing your claims?

[Niall_Quinn]

It's almost like I have the ability to change my mind over time depending on changing information.
As I said to Zim a while back (I note he ignored the point), constancy of opinion as information changes is not something to aspire to. It's constancy of opinion which means we still have a Flat Earth Society.
For the hard of thinking, it's not people changing their opinion I've ever had a problem with. It's people doing so and then pretending they always held the previous opinion.
And it's people being unable to argue in any shades of grey. If you don't think Wenger is a **** and everything he does should be criticised then clearly you an AKB who thinks Wenger can do no wrong and should stay at the club forever.
Those really aren't the only two options.

Unbelievable, tbf.

Literally a couple of hours after he's called me out with a post from 2011 (which didn't even make the point he was trying to make). Called me out for what? Changing my mind. Apparently.

There's no limit, is there?

[Cripps]

Yeah. Coming from you it's impossible to understand.

If the goal is to get Wenger out then where's the advantage in monitoring this place to ensure anything you consider beyond your self adjudicated boundary is picked up and addressed? Isn't that the typical behaviour of a supporter, rather than a critic? You could just leave stuff alone. You could express your own opinion. Or you could engage in any of the other debates that crop up. Transfer dealings. The power struggle behind the scenes. Whatever.

Instead, you WUM. You're oh so coy and reasonable when challenged. But have a look back over the last few weeks and what will you see? Digs at other posters about average squads and awful managers. You don't attack the man you want sacked, but you do attack those who want to see him sacked.

Can you see why I have a problem understanding and believing your claims?

He's trying to save face :coffee:

He lost the war and was ultimately wrong about Wenger, but he continues to argue to make Wenger seem better than he is, to justify his own past :coffee:

Letters is a shade of his former self tbh :coffee:

At least he makes the day go quicker:console:

Lettuce :rose:

[GP]

It's constancy of opinion which means we still have a Flat Earth Society.


Hey, don't make fun of the FES. We have members all around the globe.

[Letters]

Nobody is backdating their views. Over the last decade there was a point where Wenger COULD HAVE turned it around. He passed it up and carried on with his usual old shit. Which resulted in what? No title challenge. Not even close. Not even when everyone else imploded except Leicester City, a club with a fraction of the resources at Wenger's disposal. When literally everything went his way he still fucked it up. Some people, myself included, gave him the benefit of the doubt at the time. One last chance to prove he wasn't totally out of his depth. And he blew it, leaving no doubt whatsoever. He's a fraud, a has-been. Over 10 years without a sniff and, unbelievably, his European record is getting worse. 10-2 against Bayern? Twice? Seriously?

There's no debate to be had. His record speaks for itself.

Surprisingly, I find myself agreeing with much of that.

But the revisionism and hyperbole I'm arguing against is saying that it's been over 10 years of unmitigated failure and that right now he cannot do a single thing right.
I don't think I'm misrepresenting your views there, that is what you seem to be posting right now. The reality, as always, is a bit more complicated.
You said in a previous post that Wenger has taken us from a "top 2" club to a "top 4" one and maybe even now a "top 6" one. There is some truth in that but it should be noted that there isn't a top 2 any more simply because clubs like City and Chelsea have bought their way in to the top table. And Liverpool and Spurs have sorted themselves out to an extent although it hasn't landed either a title and it won't this year either. There isn't a manager in the world who could make us a top 2 team every year with the spending power of Chelsea, Utd and City. We should be able to compete with those teams though and at least challenging for the title. That is where Wenger has failed and the Leicester season was particularly damning. I think that was then I "switched sides".


But for some reason you refuse to see it, constantly trying to replace these grand failures at the top level with FA cup wins.
No, I don't. As I said, I agree with much of your first paragraph. But the FA Cup wins and the top 4 finishes aren't irrelevant. They don't replace the failures, they sit alongside them and should be considered with them when we're assessing how Wenger has done. Wenger has had some successes and some failures. He's kept us in the 4, till last season. He's won a few FA Cups. He's failed miserably in Europe though and failed to land a title, even when all the other usual suspects simultaneously imploded. Overall the failures outweigh the successes and that's why he needs to go. But it's not 10 years of unmitigated failure, that is far too simplistic an assessment.


What's hyperbolic about pointing to the guy's record and calling him out on the facts? He is a shitty manager, because he's got the record to prove it. Almost 10 million quid for the shit he shovels?

That isn't hyperbolic, apart from the bit about him being a shitty manager. I don't agree with that. But he shouldn't have been offered a new contract or given a pay rise.


I know you keep repeating all that guff about wanting him gone, etc, etc. And yet you have this enduring need to leap in and defend every criticism made against him
And here's the key point. That is just not true, is it? I don't defend every criticism. It's just demonstrably not true.
But I WILL argue against the things I see as more hyperbolic nonsense. I don't think he's a "shitty" manager. He gets some things right and other things wrong.
I WILL argue against nonsense like we have an "average" squad and an "awful" manager. This is obviously nonsense.
Two years ago we finished 2nd. To Leicester, admittedly. And OK, let's throw in the fact that Spurs shat themselves on the last day so really we should have finished 3rd. But whatever, that still isn't average.
Last year we finished 5th, first time we'd missed out on top 4 under Wenger but we won the FA Cup.
Right now we are in the top 4, the only sides above us are City, Utd and Chelsea - all of whom are able to outspend us. And we won our Europa League group despite putting out very mixed teams.
We've just won our 12th home game (possibly just league game?) in a row.

This is NOT the work of an awful manager working with an average squad. THAT is hyperbolic nonsense and deserves some ridicule.


The guy who even now defends this manager you supposedly want to see sacked. Nuanced you say? Bizarre more like. Some sort of cultish obsession.

Well, again, I don't defend him against every criticism. That is not true. You know it isn't true. But I will argue against stuff like this:


I think [Sanchez being rested] had more to do with Wenger being the most incompetent fuck in the world of sport...Don't know or care how many we have played, but it seems we are still a million miles away from having an established eleven. Most clueless cunt in football, the Wenger bloke.
(You after the Watford loss)

That is hyperbole. It's obviously nonsense. Again, we are top 4 right now. The only sides above us are those who can outspend us.
Wenger's getting a lot wrong and things like putting Lacazette on the bench against Liverpool and City are bizarre and indefensible. But he's not as bad as you say he is, if he were we'd be nowhere near the top 4.


10 years of failure Letters. This is Arsenal FC, not that shitty little lot down at the lane and certainly not Arsene FC. But for as long as a section of the fan base keeps defending this guy's indefensible record, we'll be stuck in this time loop and it wouldn't surprise me if another 10 years from now you'll be sat here putting lipstick on 20 years of dross and laughing at greying supporters who are on their knees begging the old goat to fuck off.

Again, I want Wenger gone. It's perfectly possible to think that and also think that he's not "the most incompetent fuck in the world of sport" and call that out as the hyperbole and nonsense it is.

[selassie]

I thought we should stick with him and hoped that the first FA Cup was the sign of greater things to come. The signing of Ozil and Sanchez seemed like the start of a new transfer policy which could potentially push us on. It's increasingly clear that it wasn't and that Wenger will never land us another title. So yeah, #WengerOut. And had it gone the way I hoped then yes of course I'd be pleased we stuck with him and would feel vindicated. But just because it didn't go that way, that doesn't mean that I now think he is "awful" or has assembled an "average" squad. We're back in the top 4 right now FFS, he can't be doing absolutely everything wrong. Is it really so hard to have a more nuanced view?

Finishing in the top 4 should be the absolute bare minimum considering the resources we have. We should be strongly challenging for titles, that should be the standard and should have been over the past 3 or 4 seasons, if not longer. What was the point of moving to this stadium and securing new commercial deals etc etc if we don't utilise the resources at hand by turning the team into a competitive one. Wenger is absolutely at fault for this, the stagnation of the team is solely on him.

He's doing a poor job with what he has, he's absolutely failing in most aspects of his job, there certainly isn't any area that he is exceeding in.

He is responsible for the team/the squad, he is responsible for the mess he has gotten us into whereby we are set to lose 2 of our best players on a free or for a low fee this January, that is gross negligence and would be a sackable offence at any of our rivals. What makes it worse is these players are likely to join our supposed rivals.

[Letters]

Agreed, selassie. And it's perfectly possible to agree with that without thinking he is "the most incompetent fuck in the world of sport" or that he is an "awful" manager who has assembled an "average" squad.

[selassie]

Agreed, selassie. And it's perfectly possible to agree with that without thinking he is "the most incompetent fuck in the world of sport" or that he is an "awful" manager who has assembled an "average" squad.

He is an awful manager now though.

[Letters]

How are we in the top 4 right now then?
I mean, there's no objective measure of what "awful" is, but we're in the top 4 right now which doesn't seem like the work of an awful manager.

[Power n Glory]

This has been done to death. People need stop entertaining Letters. NQ broke down where this will go a few pages back. It's a constant loop and you'll repeat the same debate in a few months.

[Letters]

This has been done to death. People need stop entertaining Letters. NQ broke down where this will go a few pages back. It's a constant loop and you'll repeat the same debate in a few months.

Or, you could try replying to my post.
If you disagree with my more detailed thoughts on how things are going and the things I think Wenger should be criticised for and defended against then please elaborate.
What am I saying above that you actually disagree with?

[Marc Overmars]

Hey, don't make fun of the FES. We have members all around the globe.

:lol:

That made me chuckle.

[Power n Glory]

Or, you could try replying to my post.
If you disagree with my more detailed thoughts on how things are going and the things I think Wenger should be criticised for and defended against then please elaborate.
What am I saying above that you actually disagree with?

I’m not even going to read your post. Whenever you’re not trying to wind someone up and have a serious debate, you stop at this topic. ‘Wenger not being so bad’. You regurgitate the same points and once all said and done, you come away with the same point and the same can be said for whoever has this debate with you.

It’s as boring as watching Arsenal play football these days. It’s to the point now where I’m trying to encourage other posters to stop going round for round with you on here. This isn’t even a debate anymore. It’s a parody. I’ve told you a thousand times what I disagree with and even if I broke it down to you again today, you’d forget by the end of the discussion. It’s pointless.

[Cripps]

This has been done to death. People need stop entertaining Letters. NQ broke down where this will go a few pages back. It's a constant loop and you'll repeat the same debate in a few months.

Spot on. No point trying to reason with fools :coffee:

[Letters]

I’m not even going to read your post. Whenever you’re not trying to wind someone up and have a serious debate, you stop at this topic. ‘Wenger not being so bad’. You regurgitate the same points and once all said and done, you come away with the same point and the same can be said for whoever has this debate with you.

It’s as boring as watching Arsenal play football these days. It’s to the point now where I’m trying to encourage other posters to stop going round for round with you on here. This isn’t even a debate anymore. It’s a parody. I’ve told you a thousand times what I disagree with and even if I broke it down to you again today, you’d forget by the end of the discussion. It’s pointless.

There isn't much new to talk about tbf but if you think this place could do with new things to debate and can think of one then by all means start one.
Otherwise what do we do, mothball the place till Wenger leaves and we might have something new to talk about?

[Power n Glory]

There isn't much new to talk about tbf but if you think this place could do with new things to debate and can think of one then by all means start one.
Otherwise what do we do, mothball the place till Wenger leaves and we might have something new to talk about?

You were nowhere to be found when discussing the appointment of a new Director of Football and Head of Recruitment. Biggest change to the structure of the club in years in years and you said nothing. A few WUM posts and that’s it. Plenty to say about what the change could mean for the club and the impact but you haven't said a word. But we get back to back posts and paragraphs whenever you feel like Wenger is being attacked.

[Letters]

You were nowhere to be found when discussing the appointment of a new Director of Football and Head of Recruitment. Biggest change to the structure of the club in years in years and you said nothing. A few WUM posts and that’s it. Plenty to say about what the change could mean for the club and the impact but you haven't said a word.
I saw that but didn't really understand the consequences. No idea who these new chaps are or whether it's a good thing. I guess anything which means Wenger isn't doing absolutely everything can only be a good thing. I'm not going to randomly dive into debates I have no real opinion about though.


But we get back to back posts and paragraphs whenever you feel like Wenger is being attacked.

And that's the repeated lie than you and others constantly come up with. I've made my position clear above. I will engage when I see hyperbolic nonsense posted. That does not mean I cannot abide any criticism of him.
This is not a difficult concept.

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsenal are winning the race to sign Udinese starlet Jakub Jankto.

The Gunners have been watching the 21-year-old midfielder for over a year whilst Italian giants AC Milan and Juventus have also been monitoring him closely.

Italian outlet Calcio Mercato claim Arsene Wenger attempted to seal a deal for the Czech Republic international in the summer but the move failed to materialise.

Hopefully the new guys can quickly put a stop to this.

[Power n Glory]

I saw that but didn't really understand the consequences. No idea who these new chaps are or whether it's a good thing. I guess anything which means Wenger isn't doing absolutely everything can only be a good thing. I'm not going to randomly dive into debates I have no real opinion about though.



And that's the repeated lie than you and others constantly come up with. I've made my position clear above. I will engage when I see hyperbolic nonsense posted. That does not mean I cannot abide any criticism of him.
This is not a difficult concept.

It’s not even a lie. You choose to engage with the ‘hyperbole’ and will do a deep dive to find a NQ post from 2011 but can’t be asked to click on the links provided to find out about what’s going on around the club or attempt to understand the implications? How is it that the ‘hyperbole’ triggers you to start typing away but not something as important as what we’ve just seen recently? If you can’t understand the consequences of such appointments, it just furthers the argument that having any sort of debate about Wenger with you is pointless. Are the points about Wenger's power and accountability going over the top of your head?

[Cripps]

My gosh step aside NQ, we have a new teacher in the house.

3 schooling posts in a row.
I make that 3-0 to PnG.

:tiphat:

[Letters]

It’s not even a lie. You choose to engage with the ‘hyperbole’ and will do a deep dive to find a NQ post from 2011 but can’t be asked to click on the links provided to find out about what’s going on around the club or attempt to understand the implications? How is it that the ‘hyperbole’ triggers you to start typing away but not something as important as what we’ve just seen recently? If you can’t understand the consequences of such appointments, it just furthers the argument that having any sort of debate about Wenger with you is pointless. Are the points about Wenger's power and accountability going over the top of your head?
I don't think I really need to justify to anyone what discussions I choose to engage in and which I don't. Nor do you. And the lie is that because I think that this:

I think [Sanchez being rested] had more to do with Wenger being the most incompetent fuck in the world of sport...Don't know or care how many we have played, but it seems we are still a million miles away from having an established eleven. Most clueless cunt in football, the Wenger bloke.

is hyperbole and nonsense that I


defend every criticism made against him

I clearly don't do that. But I have every right to say so when I think things like this and the thing about us having an "average squad" are nonsense.

[Özim]

I clearly don't do that. But I have every right to say so when I think things like this and the thing about us having an "average squad" are nonsense.

Your forgot awful manager. :lol:

To the outside world he seems pretty incompetent, plenty of people have called him out, no great surprise as he makes so many nonsensical decisions it's untrue, you'd be hard pushed to find another manager who makes more tbh.

Let me ask you this, why are you so bothered about someone says about Wenger anyway, the guy is hardly a saint and from what I can tell couldn't give a damn what the fans (which you are also one) think.

[Özim]

Hopefully the new guys can quickly put a stop to this.

Hope so, the time for pet projects passed many moons ago, time to call it a day, project youth failed, must move on now surely?

[Letters]

Your forgot awful manager. :lol:

To the outside world he seems pretty incompetent, plenty of people have called him out, no great surprise as he makes so many nonsensical decisions it's untrue, you'd be hard pushed to find another manager who makes more tbh.

OK. So how do you reconcile all that with us being in the top 4 right now? And the last couple of seasons where we clearly haven't been average in the context of the Premier League.
We have an average squad, and incompetent, awful manage and yet right now we're in the top 4. How do you square that circle?

[Cripps]

And the last couple of seasons where we clearly haven't been average in the context of the Premier League.

:haha:

[Letters]

People who don't know what average means :bow:

[Özim]

OK. So how do you reconcile all that with us being in the top 4 right now? And the last couple of seasons where we clearly haven't been average in the context of the Premier League.
We have an average squad, and incompetent, awful manage and yet right now we're in the top 4. How do you square that circle?

As you know I don't really rate getting top 4 as much of an achievement, but even if I did I could answer that by simply saying we have more resources than our competitors for 4th, together with the collapses of other teams for one reason or another, there's time IMO where we've deserved top 4 based on our season as a whole and other we haven't, where circumstances lead to us getting 4th.

[Niall_Quinn]

OK. So how do you reconcile all that with us being in the top 4 right now? And the last couple of seasons where we clearly haven't been average in the context of the Premier League.
We have an average squad, and incompetent, awful manage and yet right now we're in the top 4. How do you square that circle?

It's this constant harping on about the Top 4 Trophy that has made Wenger so hated. You seem oblivious. One of those fans Wenger has trained to view lack of achievement as an achievement in itself. Can't compete with the big boys, or even Leicester? No worries. We have achieved by hanging onto their coat tails and beating out a whole bunch of clubs with fewer resources to the coveted 4th Place Super Cup. Mostly. Except last time because Wenger, by his own admission, put his personal situation ahead of the club. Not to worry, because he still got a new contract and a pay rise. Now he's all set to steer us back to triumphant mediocrity, the coveted 4th Place World Championship Mega Cup.

Do you know what 4th place means?

Humiliation for the fans and the players, more cash for Wenger and the backroom boys. As simple as that. There's your 4th Place Freight Rover Milk Squared Circle Cup.

[Letters]

As you know I don't really rate getting top 4 as much of an achievement, but even if I did I could answer that by simply saying we have more resources than our competitors for 4th, together with the collapses of other teams for one reason or another, there's time IMO where we've deserved top 4 based on our season as a whole and other we haven't, where circumstances lead to us getting 4th.

It doesn't really matter whether it's much of an achievement, it definitely isn't average. And if our squad IS average then surely an "awful" manager would drag them down and we'd be nowhere near the top 4.
We cannot have an "average" squad AND an "awful" manager and still finish has high as we do.

My take is we have a squad which is better than anyone's apart from City, Chelsea and Utd. It is not average, not should it be given our resources. We have a manger who while not as poor as you make out is making some weird decisions and is not getting the best out of that squad. If we got a different manager then I don't think we'd be sweeping all before us - City, Chelsea and Utd all have resources to equal ours and more. I'd say where we are is about par, the 3 sides currently above us have more resources than us. But we have a squad which I think should be challenging all of them and that's where Wenger repeatedly fails.

[Letters]

Do you know what 4th place means?
In the context of this exact discussion it means we don't have an average squad or an awful manager. We definitely don't have both.
But I don't think it should be lauded as an achievement in and of itself and it shouldn't be the limit of our ambitions.

[Cripps]

It doesn't really matter whether it's much of an achievement, it definitely isn't average.

:haha:

[Letters]

Dude. Seriously. The grown ups are talking :console:

[Özim]

It doesn't really matter whether it's much of an achievement, it definitely isn't average. And if our squad IS average then surely an "awful" manager would drag them down and we'd be nowhere near the top 4.
We cannot have an "average" squad AND an "awful" manager and still finish has high as we do.

My take is we have a squad which is better than anyone's apart from City, Chelsea and Utd. It is not average, not should it be given our resources. We have a manger who while not as poor as you make out is making some weird decisions and is not getting the best out of that squad. If we got a different manager then I don't think we'd be sweeping all before us - City, Chelsea and Utd all have resources to equal ours and more. I'd say where we are is about par, the 3 sides currently above us have more resources than us. But we have a squad which I think should be challenging all of them and that's where Wenger repeatedly fails.

In the context of our club, it is average, for a club of our resources, our stability, our finances 4th place is average for sure. Yes Chelsea, Man U and Man City have more resources, but for us to be above average we should be competing with those teams and doing better in the CL to boot. Man U have become a big club through success mostly, they won tite after title, the CL etc etc this brought them the finances in the 1st place to grow their brand and make them one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Our policy of being 2nd tier doesn't grow our brand, if anything it diminishes it, less fans, income from sponsors, less merchandise sales, inferior deals etc etc.

Wenger isn't much of a manager IMO, his squad (and circumstances) often drag him to 4th place, despite being average overall we have a few star quality players who drag us back up to top 4, sadly they won't stick around long. We're lucky we have those star players because without them we'd be nowhere, Wengers tactics and motivational ability are non existent, it takes players on the pitch to drag the others with them.

A manager of a top club lie ours that hails top 4 as a major achievement is IMO by definition average, any other manager would be talking about winning the league and CL as success, not a spot in the top 4.

[Cripps]

Dude. Seriously. I'm being schooled :console:

:gp:

[Letters]

In the context of our club, it is average, for a club of our resources, our stability, our finances 4th place is average for sure. Yes Chelsea, Man U and Man City have more resources, but for us to be above average we should be competing with those teams and doing better in the CL to boot. Man U have become a big club through success mostly, they won tite after title, the CL etc etc this brought them the finances in the 1st place to grow their brand and make them one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Our policy of being 2nd tier doesn't grow our brand, if anything it diminishes it, less fans, income from sponsors, less merchandise sales, inferior deals etc etc.

Wenger isn't much of a manager IMO, his squad (and circumstances) often drag him to 4th place, despite being average overall we have a few star quality players who drag us back up to top 4, sadly they won't stick around long. We're lucky we have those star players because without them we'd be nowhere, Wengers tactics and motivational ability are non existent, it takes players on the pitch to drag the others with them.

A manager of a top club lie ours that hails top 4 as a major achievement is IMO by definition average, any other manager would be talking about winning the league and CL as success, not a spot in the top 4.

Hmm. Worryingly, I pretty much agree with most of that.
In the context of our resources I agree, top 4 is par. And we should be mixing it with the rest of the top 4, not trying to hang on to their coattails.
It has to be acknowledged that we are mostly in that group of clubs because of Wenger and the success he brought in the early years but it's increasingly clear we are not going to be competing for the biggest prizes under him again.
It would be interesting to know how we'd have fared in the last 10 years ago without Chelsea and City buying their way in, we will never know but only Fergie managed to get the better of them and while I don't think Wenger is as bad as you make out, he's no Fergie.

[Cripps]

Letters finally sees sense :faint: :bow:

Shall we frame this moment? Or save the responses somewhere so that next month when Letters argues the opposite we can save time and just paste the responses? :shrug:

[Cripps]

Might be in for Jonny Evans apparently, eyed up as a replacement for Mertesackers impending retirement :coffee:

[Özim]

Might be in for Jonny Evans apparently, eyed up as a replacement for Mertesackers impending retirement :coffee:

Not this one again, why do we get linked with such rubbish, he's not really much of a replacemement he's 29 himself and not even all that.

[Cripps]

Not this one again, why do we get linked with such rubbish, he's not really much of a replacemement he's 29 himself and not even all that.

Seems to be highly rated by the likes of City. Maybe it's just his trophy cabinet under a Fergie era that skews view and people rate him so highly:shrug:

Reckon MK Dons centre back Scott Wootton might be a good shout.

[Letters]

MK Dons :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

I don't think Evans is a bad CB in all honesty but for his age and what he'd cost, it would be a massive waste of money.

We need to think long term with Merts gone and Kos getting on a bit. Get someone in around 25-26 about the enter their best years and can partner Mustafi.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think Evans is a bad CB in all honesty but for his age and what he'd cost, it would be a massive waste of money.

We need to think long term with Merts gone and Kos getting on a bit. Get someone in around 25-26 about the enter their best years and can partner Mustafi.

Fingers crossed this is just a leftover from the Wenger/ Law dickfest and now we have some competent people in we'll soon start seeing credible targets.

[Power n Glory]

We need to steer clear of these Man Utd write offs.

[Özim]

Yeah Man U reject are a bad idea, moreover need to be putting a team together who will be around for a good few years, we don't want players almost in their 30s that will need replacing again in a few years.

[Cripps]

Fingers crossed this is just a leftover from the Wenger/ Law dickfest and now we have some competent people in we'll soon start seeing credible targets.

He played well in 2011.

[Cripps]

United in for Goretska too apparently:coffee:

[selassie]

United in for Goretska too apparently:coffee:

Goretzka won't be coming here, he has too many top teams on his case. What does Wenger expect? He's spent the best part of 10 seasons walking away from highly rated players the minute another team shows interest, we aren't pulling up any trees, it's a sideways move for Goretzka coming here, he may aswell go somewhere like United or Chelsea so he can compete for titles.

[Cripps]

Madrid in for Sanchez apparently :coffee: Would be ideal for him to go to Spain.

We're interested in N'zonzi apparently :coffee: would love him here, an absolute beast.

[selassie]

I don't think Evans is a bad CB in all honesty but for his age and what he'd cost, it would be a massive waste of money.

We need to think long term with Merts gone and Kos getting on a bit. Get someone in around 25-26 about the enter their best years and can partner Mustafi.

He’s a decent enough player but would be an absolute train wreck in our defence, DO NOT WANT. I honestly have no idea why Wenger seems now obsessed with picking up the scraps from Man Utd, if he’s not good enough for them which he isn’t then he isn’t good enough Arsenal. Wenger needs to go all out and bring in an elite young defender like Jose Gimenez of Atletico who is stalling on a contract or Daniele Rugani of Juve, Rugani was pushing for a move last year as he couldn’t get in the Juve team. Wenger needs to quit with this ludicrous obsession of improving discarded or unhelralded players, just go out and buy a proper player FFS!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

Doesn't matter what defenders we buy if the plan is to keep Wenger here. Our defence improves twofold as soon as Wenger leaves. And it won't cost us a penny, unless the old goat is greedy enough to demand a failure bonus on the way out.

[Cripps]

Who remembers Silvestre? What an absolute disaster he was :haha:

[Cripps]

Allardyce wants theo at Everton apparently :pray:

[Globalgunner]

Allardyce wants theo at Everton apparently :pray:

If Theo is still here in January. He really doesn't have a brain.

[Cripps]

Another one ruined by Wenger:doh:

Had so much potential. Was one of our most exciting players at one point. Bet he regrets coming to this dump :(

[Niall_Quinn]

Allardyce wants theo at Everton apparently :pray:

Damn, we'll have to be nice to fat Sam until at least January, and possibly through to the summer.

Won't be easy. But worth it.

[fakeyank]

How much do we have to pay Everton for sending Theo their way?

[Bumble]

Yeah Man U reject are a bad idea, moreover need to be putting a team together who will be around for a good few years, we don't want players almost in their 30s that will need replacing again in a few years.
yeah I mean we should stear clear of signings like Ronaldo and Messi because of there age too. also what is the point of building for the future as you cant control what happens. you need a mix of players that improve the team. I wouldn't have a problem signing a 30yo if they were better than what we had even if its only for a couple of years.

[Bumble]

How much do we have to pay Everton for sending Theo their way?
we cant get rid of theo isn't he our longest serving player and captain of our carabao cup side.

[Cripps]

N'zonzi: "my future is clearly away from sevilla"

His son lives in London

:pray:

[Globalgunner]

Wenger wants Theo to stay.
No surprise. Fellow travelers in mediocrity. Misery loves a companion, or 2.

[Özim]

Wenger wants Theo to stay.
No surprise. Fellow travelers in mediocrity. Misery loves a companion, or 2.

Don't get it, probably one of the most ineffective players we have, has had years to deliver and just hasn't, he's got no future here and yet Wenger wants to keep him (surprise surprise he does the opposite to the logical choice).

Wenger won't sign anybody decent and at the same time won't get rid of the average joes.

Amazing how long he gives his favourite players to deliver and how little he gives those who aren't his favoured list, amazing and embarrassing. In many ways Walcott sums up this club, mediocre.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Theo just needs some time to develop. Have some patience man.

[fakeyank]

Theo just needs some time to develop. Have some patience man.

:haha:

[Cripps]

Re-entered into negotiations with Ozil apparently :coffee:

[Letters]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npr9Svl47q8

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsene Wenger says he understands Olivier Giroud's frustration at a lack of starts at Arsenal but hopes the striker remains at the club until the end of the season.

Wenger signed, so unsurprisingly players want to leave. Hints of Bellerin to Juve going around too.

[Cripps]

Hope Giroud stays. A great plan B.

[Cripps]

We've agreed £35m fee for N'zonzi according to some rag in Spain:coffee:

Come on arsene let this be true :coffee:

[Özim]

Ozil would me crazy to sign on again for us, would be wasting his career, probably get a bigger pay day elsewhere now he's free as well. This club has no ambition, it's 2nd rate, if anything if he does sign it shows he has no ambition or hunger to win anything.

If you're any kind of player with any kind of ambition you wouldn't come within 100 miles of this place.

Can't see it myself :coffee:

[Cripps]

Ozil would me crazy to sign on again for us, would be wasting his career, probably get a bigger pay day elsewhere now he's free as well. This club has no ambition, it's 2nd rate, if anything if he does sign it shows he has no ambition or hunger to win anything.

If you're any kind of player with any kind of ambition you wouldn't come within 100 miles of this place.

Can't see it myself :coffee:

Completely agree tbh

The only thing is where else would he get 300k a week for doing nothing? Where else is there a manager that is so accepting of mediocre performances? It's an easy place to work Arsenal. And he seems to love London life.

[Niall_Quinn]

He'd be mad to go to Utd with the shit brand of football Maureen has going on. That would suit him even less than our set up.

[Power n Glory]

He'd be mad to go to Utd with the shit brand of football Maureen has going on. That would suit him even less than our set up.

That’s Wenger ball effecting your judgement. People said the same about Cesc when he was on the verge of signing for Chelsea. We’re so used to seeing these guys having to play 1000 passes to create one meaningful chance on goal that we can’t imagine them in a Mourinho set up. For guys that have a killer pass, one dangerous pass to release the attackers on a counter is all these players need. It’s not pretty football but it’s effective. If he’s not as lazy on defence as you say the media make him out to be, he’ll be fine on that front too.

[Cripps]

He'd be mad to go to Utd with the shit brand of football Maureen has going on. That would suit him even less than our set up.

Jose would revive him:coffee:

Unlike our dinosaur :coffee:

[Cripps]

Chelsea in for Lemar apparently :doh:

It was fun while it lasted :(

[Globalgunner]

No justice in this world. Wenger would ruin him anyway. Sub him off every 70 mins, if it would save 50p

[Xhaka Can’t]

Hope Giroud stays. A great plan B.

Based on minutes played he is amongst the best.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Ozil would me crazy to sign on again for us, would be wasting his career, probably get a bigger pay day elsewhere now he's free as well. This club has no ambition, it's 2nd rate, if anything if he does sign it shows he has no ambition or hunger to win anything.

If you're any kind of player with any kind of ambition you wouldn't come within 100 miles of this place.

Can't see it myself :coffee:

Don’t be daft, Chelsea is only the other end of town

[selassie]

Chelsea in for Lemar apparently :doh:

It was fun while it lasted :(

Wenger has his excuses made for him already.

"Looooooook we try and sign Lemar but Chelsea got involved so ze price is too high....let me tell you, we nearly signed him in the Summer but had complications in the deal, then Chelsea get on his case".

[Niall_Quinn]

As clearly stated by sources linked to Monaco, sources that Arsenal could have easily referred to the same way journalists did, and fans did, Monaco wanted to hold on to Lemar for one more season and then intended to sell at 80 mill. That much was clear all last summer. Wenger's fucking ridiculous bids and his dithering - spectacularly incompetent. A 50 mill bid when the window opened and he'd be playing here now, obtained at 30 mill less than will now have to be paid. Fuckwad opened the bidding at 30 mill. He's such a fucking dick it's defies belief. When that was laughed out of the room, the moron upped it to 35. Then 40. Then 40 and 1 pence. He never got to the figure that would have unlocked the deal, not until the last hour of the last day when we bid... 92 million :haha:

Totally incompetent. For all to see.

[Cripps]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5174491/amp/Arsenal-agree-35m-deal-Sevillas-Steven-NZonzi.html?__twitter_impression=true

:pray:

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5174491/amp/Arsenal-agree-35m-deal-Sevillas-Steven-NZonzi.html?__twitter_impression=true

:pray:

Don't see what this guy gives us beyond what we already have. Not in the system we play anyway.

[Cripps]

A big nasty DM in the middle. Exactly what we need.

[Globalgunner]

A big nasty DM in the middle. Exactly what we need.

Unless Wenger decides to play him at CB. He looks 6`4 or more. Hard for Wenger not to see him as Merts replacement. Besides Wenger doesnt have the heart to drop either Ramshackle or Xhakaclutz.

[Cripps]

:lol: mertesackers replacement. You know it'll happen.

[Power n Glory]

A big nasty DM in the middle. Exactly what we need.

We need a new manager. Wenger has created a brand new problem for himself by introducing this 3-4-3 formation or whatever it. Just as it starts to become clear of what sort of pieces we need to play the 4-2-3-1 formation we used to play and finally buy a clinical striker that should flourish with our attack, especially Ozil, he switches formation.

He’s unbelievable. Even when close and being ‘2% away’ for being a very good team, he’ll hit the reset button to destroy whatever team we’ve spent the last 3 or 4 years building. He’ll lose the key pieces need for it to function after blowing a huge amount of money on pieces needed to support the core players. Good luck to whoever we sign next but I have no faith in this manger.

[dostoy]

Would Wenger pay about 35 million for a bloke who is 28 and who used to play for Stoke and Blackburn ?

He is 29 on Friday.

There is no chance whatsoever.

[Globalgunner]

Would Wenger pay about 35 million for a bloke who is 28 and who used to play for Stoke and Blackburn ?

He is 29 on Friday.

There is no chance whatsoever.

35million is the new 5m, thanks to Neymar and the Arabs. It is nothing nowadays. Even Stoke can buy 35m players. More importanatly he is better than what weve got in the middle. We have loads of 7m players sucking up millions on salaries that are a complete waste. If we buy Nzonzi and win the Europa of get 4th place it will be better than stashing the cash and finishing 6th.

[Niall_Quinn]

Would Wenger pay about 35 million for a bloke who is 28 and who used to play for Stoke and Blackburn ?

He is 29 on Friday.

There is no chance whatsoever.

Wenger's not following any particular plot right now. He's adrift, making it up as he goes.

[dostoy]

35 million is 55 million to Wenger.

I just cannot see it happening.

[Niall_Quinn]

35 million is 55 million to Wenger.

I just cannot see it happening.

If this is the same Nzonzi I used to watch pubbing it up in the PL he will fit right in with the tip tap routine. He's another sideways, backwards maestro who offers nothing beyond the halfway line. Though he would be an improvement defensively, on par with Coquelin maybe. We've seen that Wenger will happily pay 35 mill for second rate tip tapsters.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I haven't seen him since the move to Spain....so I am not sure what has happened between him playing in the Prem and now...but I imagine something miraculous to now hear so many gooners hot on him.

Or is it a little like the Morgan Schneiderlin preference that seemed to carry on until he got lost in the Man United stands?

In any case I do fear it is all an irrelevance until the manager changes though. Unless he signs 5 world class players or something beyond imagination. Still can't fathom how out of the current generation of superb French talent, we have the lamp post and an ageing error prone Koscielny.....though I suppose they aren't really even a part of that generation so we basically have none unless we're counting Coquelin and the Jeff.

[Niall_Quinn]

I haven't seen him since the move to Spain....so I am not sure what has happened between him playing in the Prem and now...but I imagine something miraculous to now hear so many gooners hot on him.

Or is it a little like the Morgan Schneiderlin preference that seemed to carry on until he got lost in the Man United stands?

In any case I do fear it is all an irrelevance until the manager changes though. Unless he signs 5 world class players or something beyond imagination. Still can't fathom how out of the current generation of superb French talent, we have the lamp post and an ageing error prone Koscielny.....though I suppose they aren't really even a part of that generation so we basically have none unless we're counting Coquelin and the Jeff.

He's big, he's powerful, he's fast. He's 1/100th as good as Vieira and I guess that's what fans are pinning their hopes on. That we finally fill that huge, catastrophic, gaping hole that Wenger hasn't noticed until now. We give him a chance, of course, provided Wenger doesn't sabotage the deal. But you're right, it's going to take a lot more than this to make any sort of a difference.

[Cripps]

I haven't seen him since the move to Spain....so I am not sure what has happened between him playing in the Prem and now...but I imagine something miraculous to now hear so many gooners hot on him.

Or is it a little like the Morgan Schneiderlin preference that seemed to carry on until he got lost in the Man United stands?

In any case I do fear it is all an irrelevance until the manager changes though. Unless he signs 5 world class players or something beyond imagination. Still can't fathom how out of the current generation of superb French talent, we have the lamp post and an ageing error prone Koscielny.....though I suppose they aren't really even a part of that generation so we basically have none unless we're counting Coquelin and the Jeff.

He's been excellent in La Liga. A real destroyer in the middle sitting in front of the defence protecting them.

He was pivotal in Sevilla destroying Liverpool in the Europa League final.

How will he do with a tactically inept manager in a team exposed in terms of shape on a weekly basis? Probably not good. But we've been crying out to replace Vieira and this guy certainly has those defensive qualities.

[Cripps]

Ozil prefers Utd to Barca apparently :coffee:

Great. Can't wait for him to tear it up at Utd :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsene Wenger is pushing for Arsenal to complete a deal for Sporting midfielder William Carvalho, according to reports.

The Portugal international was close to joining West Ham in the summer and has been constantly linked with a move to the Premier League.

A Bola, via Sport Witness, report that Arsenal have now opened talks with Sporting over a deal for the 25-year-old. But the Gunners face competition from Chinese side Tianjin Quanjian, who are managed by former Portugal midfielder Paulo Sousa.

Second tier. Another player Wenger has been watching for years. Can we beat the world famous Tianjin Quanjian to his signature? Hopefully not.

[Cripps]

Weren't we supposed to be signing him about 3 years ago? :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Weren't we supposed to be signing him about 3 years ago? :lol:

These things take time. Real fuck-ups don't happen overnight. They are planned for years.

[Cripps]

When do we judge him? May?

[Letters]

the world famous Tianjin Quanjian.
Pulp Fiction :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/12/16/15/4761EB0300000578-5186197-image-a-28_1513439653841.jpg

Officials assuring Alexis and Ozil that it will all be so different when they join their respective Manc clubs. All the pens, FKs and onsides you'll ever need lads.

[Niall_Quinn]

Mislintat and Sanllehi officially start work on 1 Feb. Which gives Wenger a free hand to wreck the January transfer window.

Why Feb 1? Why not now, with a window coming up? I know they'd have to go in cold, but how could they possibly do any worse than Wenger?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Must be specifically to spare them from the January circus...though I agree....why can't they start Jan 1st!

[Ralpheroo72]

They’re in the waiting period


Mislintat and Sanllehi officially start work on 1 Feb. Which gives Wenger a free hand to wreck the January transfer window.

Why Feb 1? Why not now, with a window coming up? I know they'd have to go in cold, but how could they possibly do any worse than Wenger?

[Niall_Quinn]

Alexis Sanchez has reportedly rejected a big-money offer from China as he prepares for life after his Arsenal contract expires next summer.

Sanchez has only a few months left on his deal at the Emirates, which runs out in 2018, and has shown little indication of wanting to remain at Arsenal.

He is said to favour a move to Premier League rivals Manchester City, and has apparently already turned down one mega-bucks deal.

What a fuck Wenger. What a fuck up. You've fucked it up in every way conceivable. A comprehensive fuck up with no fucked up stone left unfucked. You fuck.

[Marc Overmars]

City clearly don't need him.

[Cripps]

If city sign him they'll win the x factor next season to add to this years world cup.

[Özim]

He's wanted to go to City since last summer, probably wants to go even more now he sees how good they are.

Difference is we hold no cards now, he can walk away and thank us for the (bad) memories and we get zilch, in reality there was no point holding onto him, he was clearly going to lack motivation as he didn't want to play for us.

Should have sold him and brought someone else did, as usual we played Russian roulette and lost, we've paid someone who isn't interested and isn't performing but still gets paid great money and then get to watch him walk away and join the best side in the PL in the summer, clever bit of business.

Wenger the economic king :bow:

[Cripps]

We're in for David Luiz apparently :lol:

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/667941/Chelsea-news-Arsenal-David-Luiz-transfer-Arsene-Wenger-gossip-Premier-League-Conte-deal/amp#click=https://t.co/ZewaLAJz41

Would be a disaster under nutty professor.

[Niall_Quinn]

We're in for David Luiz apparently :lol:

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/667941/Chelsea-news-Arsenal-David-Luiz-transfer-Arsene-Wenger-gossip-Premier-League-Conte-deal/amp#click=https://t.co/ZewaLAJz41

Would be a disaster under nutty professor.

Let me guess - 50 mill?

[Niall_Quinn]

It is believed Frenchman Wenger is also considering bidding for Manchester City skipper Vincent Kompany, 31, if the league leaders come back in for Arsenal’s star striker Alexis Sanchez next month.

:haha:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

A player he should have signed about 15 years ago......

:rolleyes:

[Globalgunner]

:haha:

That would be doing City 2 favours...getting rid of junk and signing a class player for peanuts. Wenger could let them have Sanches plus money in exchange for Tweety bird

[Özim]

:haha:

:lol: As if the guy would even consider coming here, maybe we should bid for their entire 1st team to scare Man City off, especially as we don't want to sell......until the summer when we can't.

Wenger is footballs most cringeworthy joke, Sanchez is going whether he likes it or not, would personally let them have him in January if they want him, we might get a bag of nuts and a diet coke in return at least, Sanchez has no interest in playing for us, you can see that, we'd save ourselves 6 months worth of wages as well, no point keeping some guy who's made it clear both on and off the pitch he doesn't want to be here.

[Power n Glory]

A player he should have signed about 15 years ago......

:rolleyes:

We were linked with him way before he went to City. No idea why we never went for him despite being desperate for quality in that area.

[Marc Overmars]

Kompany is past it. Can’t see what he brings to the table now that even a fading Koscielny doesn’t already.

We should have let those new transfer guys start in January.

[Cripps]

We were linked with him way before he went to City. No idea why we never went for him despite being desperate for quality in that area.

Probably for the best anyway. Would have turned into a clown in our defence and destroyed his career.

[Niall_Quinn]

A player he should have signed about 15 years ago......

:rolleyes:

These things take time.

[Niall_Quinn]

That would be doing City 2 favours...getting rid of junk and signing a class player for peanuts. Wenger could let them have Sanches plus money in exchange for Tweety bird

His injury record suits us though - can't deny that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Caveat - these stories are coming from the Daily Star. A "paper" that has no problem making shit up out of thin air.

But it does sound a lot like Wenger. Fail to do what needs to be done in the summer. The panic mid season and thrash about for any option that presents itself, provided nobody else wants the players and it's a stopgap solution at best.

What he's done here is cost the club 50 mill transfer fee when he decide to hang onto Alexis even though there obviously was no indication the player would stay. We've also been paying Alexis' wages since then, so that's another loss when you consider his form has gone down the pan most likely due to the uncertainty of his situation. And, as he does, Wenger pissed off both the gypos and the player with his last minute antics on transfer deadline day. As fuck ups go, this is a slam dunk. Nobody fucks up the transfer window like Wenger.

The sick joke is, that 50 mill would have secured Lemar early in the window. And if we'd have signed Lemar, essentially as a swap for Alexis and probab;y on lower wages than Alexis would have demanded to stay, we'd still have had a budget to go and sign some more genuine talent. This could have been enough to entice Ozil to stay. Instead we fucked around pretending to chase Mbappe after we''d already fucked him off the year before because Wenger wouldn't pay the agent.

This man is unspeakable. It hurts my head how a supposed businessman like Kroenke would allow this guy to run his primary asset. Yeah, Wenger helped build that asset value in the early days - something nice for Stan to take advantage of - but if Wenger is allowed to carry on Stan might just see that value starting to descend into the shitter. How long can the myth of Wenger prevail before everyone starts looking for the exit? Fans, players, backroom staff and... shareholders. If Usmanov decides he's had enough and sells up then he's the guy artificially propping the share price through his desperation to be involved. Would anyone else be looking to pay big money for shares in a club that is being turned into a clown show by the master clown Wenger?

[Cripps]

Mikel Arteta is being lined up as a future Arsenal manager as the Gunners plan for life after Arsene Wenger. (Daily Telegraph)

:lol: Merry Christmas everyone!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Mikel Arteta is being lined up as a future Arsenal manager as the Gunners plan for life after Arsene Wenger. (Daily Telegraph)

:lol: Merry Christmas everyone!

Obviously we want a big name, but tell me after spending eighteen months with Pep....tell me you wouldn’t take him over Wenger right now?

[Globalgunner]

Obviously we want a big name, but tell me after spending eighteen months with Pep....tell me you wouldn’t take him over Wenger right now?

I would take the City head groundsman over our dated dunce.

[Cripps]

Obviously we want a big name, but tell me after spending eighteen months with Pep....tell me you wouldn’t take him over Wenger right now?

Absolutely not.

Wenger might be a dinosaur but you'd be mad to hire a guy with zero experience. That would be a gigantic risk and jeopardise the future of our club, rubber stamping our demise into mediocrity.

Just because he works under Pep doesn't mean jack sh*t. Paul Clement was Ancelotti's 2nd man for donkeys years and look at how his management career has panned out.

[Niall_Quinn]

Obviously we want a big name, but tell me after spending eighteen months with Pep....tell me you wouldn’t take him over Wenger right now?

I'd take me over Wenger right now. Arteta would be great. If he works out, great. If he doesn't, well don't let him stay for 20 years! Fire him.

Just getting a new manager - any new manager - would break the Wenger eternity curse and put us back into the real world of performance. When managers perform they stay, when they don't they get sacked. Like any normal club.

Sign Arteta today. What are we waiting for?

[selassie]

We're in for David Luiz apparently :lol:

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/667941/Chelsea-news-Arsenal-David-Luiz-transfer-Arsene-Wenger-gossip-Premier-League-Conte-deal/amp#click=https://t.co/ZewaLAJz41

Would be a disaster under nutty professor.

Lovely stuff, can you imagine David Luiz in our defence? :haha:

[selassie]

We were linked with him way before he went to City. No idea why we never went for him despite being desperate for quality in that area.

Dithering Wenger?

He went to City for 6 million.

[Marc Overmars]

If Pep sees something in him that’s enough to consider he might be a pretty good fit at some point in his coaching career. He was well regarded here and I remember reading a lot of reports that some at the club weren’t pleased he was allowed to cut his teeth at City.

For now though, we need someone with a bit more profile. I’m all for taking a gamble but it has to be an educated one as well and Arteta is too much of a punt.

[Cripps]

You lot are batshit crazy. I know Wenger is an absolutely useless buffoon that drives us all mad but you'd be willing to take a massive risk and hire any man and his dog to replace him? Someone like Arteta? You're letting the guy skew your thinking to ridiculously abnormal levels. Pull yourselves together man.

[Özim]

We were linked with him way before he went to City. No idea why we never went for him despite being desperate for quality in that area.

We like to make sure they're good before we sign them, that way we can then turn round and say we almost signed them once we have no chance of ever getting them.

there's been plenty of players over the years we've been linked with who were highly rated and we never moved for, we just don't seem interested in signing highly touted players, we always chose to sign the more unknown types which is odd really, probably an ego thing and wanting to be the person that discovered them or something.

Had you had a normal manager in charge we'd probaby have ended up with some of these guys instead of the trash we bought.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You lot are batshit crazy. I know Wenger is an absolutely useless buffoon that drives us all mad but you'd be willing to take a massive risk and hire any man and his dog to replace him? Someone like Arteta? You're letting the guy skew your thinking to ridiculously abnormal levels. Pull yourselves together man.

I’d rather go for someone young and ambitious than the plethora of recycled average managers that do the rounds like Pulis, Pardew, Hughes, Allardyce, Moyes etc.

I think someone like Arteta could be the head coach of a large coaching team rather than the micromanagement we have currently. It’s definitely a big risk and it would be far, far from my first choice. But definitely more open to it than I was a year ago, Wenger is a slow rot and the longer he stays the less any other choice becomes a significant risk.

And as NQ points out, any guy that comes after Wenger will be sacked if they don’t cut the mustard because there isn’t the deference that they have towards Wenger

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

We were linked with him way before he went to City. No idea why we never went for him despite being desperate for quality in that area.

He did his usual song and dance of bideing his time until someone else actually took the risk and slapped some cash down.

Kompany has been the butt of a lot of NQ's jokes but he's easily been one of the best CB's in the world since he was a teenager and is one of the most respectful non Arsenal players about Arsenal you'll find. He would have taken all the traditions and values of the club well on board.

[Power n Glory]

Absolutely not.

Wenger might be a dinosaur but you'd be mad to hire a guy with zero experience. That would be a gigantic risk and jeopardise the future of our club, rubber stamping our demise into mediocrity.

Just because he works under Pep doesn't mean jack sh*t. Paul Clement was Ancelotti's 2nd man for donkeys years and look at how his management career has panned out.

Agree with this. We’re in a position where we can’t afford the risk.

[Niall_Quinn]

Lovely stuff, can you imagine David Luiz in our defence? :haha:

Unfortunately, yes I can.

[Niall_Quinn]

He did his usual song and dance of bideing his time until someone else actually took the risk and slapped some cash down.

Kompany has been the butt of a lot of NQ's jokes but he's easily been one of the best CB's in the world since he was a teenager and is one of the most respectful non Arsenal players about Arsenal you'll find. He would have taken all the traditions and values of the club well on board.

tbf, if he'd joined us instead I would have heaped praise on him. But he didn't, he joined the gypos. So turns out I was right.

[LDG]

Unfortunately, yes I can.

Gets sent off a lot
Always out of position
Wants to be a CF
Can pass sideways and punt one long

Perfect for us.

[Niall_Quinn]

Agree with this. We’re in a position where we can’t afford the risk.

Risk?

We're risking the whole club with this clown in charge of things. Look at the fuck-ups he's making, over and over again. We can't even get a settled team or system under him. The transfer windows are pure comedy. He shows no indication he has any clues on how to pull us out of this dive. He can't see he's even wrong, he continues to think of himself as a big force in football - he said as much the other day when he was slapping backhanded compliments at the new guys coming in.

The biggest risk of all is keeping this loon for another day, let alone another season. There's NOTHING while he's here.

Di Matteo came in and won the CL. Not because he's the greatest coach that ever walked the earth - plainly he's not. But because he liberated a decent squad and did the common sense, blatantly obvious things. He applied what limited coaching knowledge he had and, no doubt, used the experience around him to build an environment that allowed the players to thrive and achieve at the highest level.

There are plenty of people who could come in and unlock the potential in our squad. Provided they weren't expected to pick up every thread that egomaniac Wenger demands to have a hold of. Leave the transfers to the new guys. The running of the club to the CEO. And get the coach out on the training ground with a decent staff to focus on the football.

Of course Arteta would be a better bet than Wenger. Are you kidding me? He knows the basics, what more do we need at this point? We have to put an end to this Wenger business, that's the absolute priority. Arteta knows the club, he's been getting experience under a coach that knows what he's doing, he'd be a perfectly reasonable stopgap while we found the right man for the job long term. Trouble is, Arteta would know that too so he wouldn't come here anyway.

But theoretically, for sure, sack Wenger today and get Arteta in. The whole place would be transformed overnight. The fans wouldn't know what to do with themselves, watching players play in their correct positions, seeing proper tactics, watching sensible substitutions and not having to watch an old goat stick his nose into and wreck transfer windows. It's be like Christmas every weekend.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gets sent off a lot
Always out of position
Wants to be a CF
Can pass sideways and punt one long

Perfect for us.

He's got stupider hair than Bellerin. It would kill Bellerin's hair if we signed him.

[Niall_Quinn]

One of his first challenges as manager was to overturn a 3-1 first-leg deficit against Napoli in the last 16 of the Champions League. In a bid to do so, he made four changes to the side beaten in Italy, recalling John Terry, Ashley Cole, Frank Lampard and Michael Essien to the starting line-up. It was a move that worked wonders as Lampard and Terry both scored, along with Didier Drogba and Branislav Ivanovic, and Chelsea won a sensational game 4-1 in extra-time.


“I selected a group of players with a lot of experience, who were comfortable playing with each other,” explains Di Matteo. “It was one of those nights that will be remembered as one of the greatest European nights at Chelsea.”


While the odds were stacked against Chelsea that night, Terry says the arrival of Di Matteo had given the Blues the lift they needed at the right time.


Di Matteo, overturning a 3-1 deficit to Napoli in the CL. His first challenge.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11668/9570059/champions-league-roberto-di-matteo-at-chelsea

[Power n Glory]

Risk?

We're risking the whole club with this clown in charge of things. Look at the fuck-ups he's making, over and over again. We can't even get a settled team or system under him. The transfer windows are pure comedy. He shows no indication he has any clues on how to pull us out of this dive. He can't see he's even wrong, he continues to think of himself as a big force in football - he said as much the other day when he was slapping backhanded compliments at the new guys coming in.

The biggest risk of all is keeping this loon for another day, let alone another season. There's NOTHING while he's here.

Di Matteo came in and won the CL. Not because he's the greatest coach that ever walked the earth - plainly he's not. But because he liberated a decent squad and did the common sense, blatantly obvious things. He applied what limited coaching knowledge he had and, no doubt, used the experience around him to build an environment that allowed the players to thrive and achieve at the highest level.

There are plenty of people who could come in and unlock the potential in our squad. Provided they weren't expected to pick up every thread that egomaniac Wenger demands to have a hold of. Leave the transfers to the new guys. The running of the club to the CEO. And get the coach out on the training ground with a decent staff to focus on the football.

Of course Arteta would be a better bet than Wenger. Are you kidding me? He knows the basics, what more do we need at this point? We have to put an end to this Wenger business, that's the absolute priority. Arteta knows the club, he's been getting experience under a coach that knows what he's doing, he'd be a perfectly reasonable stopgap while we found the right man for the job long term. Trouble is, Arteta would know that too so he wouldn't come here anyway.

But theoretically, for sure, sack Wenger today and get Arteta in. The whole place would be transformed overnight. The fans wouldn't know what to do with themselves, watching players play in their correct positions, seeing proper tactics, watching sensible substitutions and not having to watch an old goat stick his nose into and wreck transfer windows. It's be like Christmas every weekend.

Calm down, calm down. That's not me saying we can't afford to risk a change of management. That's me saying we can't just pick anyone and give someone their first job. If we finish outside of the Top 4 again and then appoint a manager that has no draw and has players around the world questioning our ambition, we're going to be in serious trouble. We're not Barca or Madrid. We can't spend our way out of trouble and we don't have enough talented players here to just hand the job to someone and expect them to do a Pep or Zidane.

Edit - We don't have a decent squad. Not now and not by the time Wenger leaves.

[Niall_Quinn]

Calm down, calm down. That's not me saying we can't afford to risk a change of management. That's me saying we can't just pick anyone and give someone their first job. If we finish outside of the Top 4 again and then appoint a manager that has no draw and has players around the world questioning our ambition, we're going to be in serious trouble. We're not Barca or Madrid. We can't spend our way out of trouble and we don't have enough talented players here to just hand the job to someone and expect them to do a Pep or Zidane.

Edit - We don't have a decent squad. Not now and not by the time Wenger leaves.

We have a better squad than Wenger makes them look. A new coach might, for example, work with defenders on defending. Or work with midfielders on how not to pretend to be strikers. Or work with wide players on how to go forwards instead of backwards. Many possibilities.

Our reputation? Alexis and Ozil are clawing the door with bloody fingernails trying to get out. The club is either being laughed at or pitied.

Our ambition? We could scoop a turd out of the bowl and smear it across the dugout and it would show more ambition than letting a senile old goat see out his days because he once knew what he was doing.

[Cripps]

I’d rather go for someone young and ambitious than the plethora of recycled average managers that do the rounds like Pulis, Pardew, Hughes, Allardyce, Moyes etc.

I think someone like Arteta could be the head coach of a large coaching team rather than the micromanagement we have currently. It’s definitely a big risk and it would be far, far from my first choice. But definitely more open to it than I was a year ago, Wenger is a slow rot and the longer he stays the less any other choice becomes a significant risk.

And as NQ points out, any guy that comes after Wenger will be sacked if they don’t cut the mustard because there isn’t the deference that they have towards Wenger

I agree someone young and ambitious would be good but that doesn't mean Arteta. And why are you referring to managers like Pulis, Pardew and Allardyce? They are clearly levels below us and would never be at the helm here.

We are a top club (albeit more of a sleeping giant), we have a fairly young squad, flashy new stadium, decent training facilities.. managers would love to be in an environment like that.

Allegri's closest advisor last season said Allegri would like the chance to manage Arsenal because of those factors. Ancelotti has also said it in the past. So don't be so quick to put us down.

[Cripps]

Risk?

We're risking the whole club with this clown in charge of things. Look at the fuck-ups he's making, over and over again. We can't even get a settled team or system under him. The transfer windows are pure comedy. He shows no indication he has any clues on how to pull us out of this dive. He can't see he's even wrong, he continues to think of himself as a big force in football - he said as much the other day when he was slapping backhanded compliments at the new guys coming in.

The biggest risk of all is keeping this loon for another day, let alone another season. There's NOTHING while he's here.

Di Matteo came in and won the CL. Not because he's the greatest coach that ever walked the earth - plainly he's not. But because he liberated a decent squad and did the common sense, blatantly obvious things. He applied what limited coaching knowledge he had and, no doubt, used the experience around him to build an environment that allowed the players to thrive and achieve at the highest level.

There are plenty of people who could come in and unlock the potential in our squad. Provided they weren't expected to pick up every thread that egomaniac Wenger demands to have a hold of. Leave the transfers to the new guys. The running of the club to the CEO. And get the coach out on the training ground with a decent staff to focus on the football.

Of course Arteta would be a better bet than Wenger. Are you kidding me? He knows the basics, what more do we need at this point? We have to put an end to this Wenger business, that's the absolute priority. Arteta knows the club, he's been getting experience under a coach that knows what he's doing, he'd be a perfectly reasonable stopgap while we found the right man for the job long term. Trouble is, Arteta would know that too so he wouldn't come here anyway.

But theoretically, for sure, sack Wenger today and get Arteta in. The whole place would be transformed overnight. The fans wouldn't know what to do with themselves, watching players play in their correct positions, seeing proper tactics, watching sensible substitutions and not having to watch an old goat stick his nose into and wreck transfer windows. It's be like Christmas every weekend.

NQ I love you. But you have lost the plot.

[selassie]

Calm down, calm down. That's not me saying we can't afford to risk a change of management. That's me saying we can't just pick anyone and give someone their first job. If we finish outside of the Top 4 again and then appoint a manager that has no draw and has players around the world questioning our ambition, we're going to be in serious trouble. We're not Barca or Madrid. We can't spend our way out of trouble and we don't have enough talented players here to just hand the job to someone and expect them to do a Pep or Zidane.

Edit - We don't have a decent squad. Not now and not by the time Wenger leaves.

We need Ancellotti or someone of his ilk to steady the ship and rebuild the squad...whoever comes in needs to bring in young talented players though, not projects, players who have genuine star quality.

Make no mistake, whoever takes up the post after Wenger leaves has a helluva job on their hands, the lack of quality in the squad is evident but the whole mentality of this football team needs changing, the new guy needs to demand and set a standard that "winning IS EVERYTHING".

We need to rid of Wenger's "loser/anything goes mentality"

[Cripps]

I don't agree with this idea that absolutely anyone can come in and do a better job. We should be going for a young and ambitious manager I agree, but that should mean someone in the ilk of Jardim.

We need someone with charisma and proven experience. Someone that captures the imagination of the players so that they adhere to him. Look at how the Utd players reacted to Moyes; they dismissed him and undermined him. He wasn't able to motivate them.

If we go for a completely left wing appointment like Arteta I'd be seriously worried. The completely left wing / risky candidate should be someone like Howe; someone that has experience of management and has some sort of pedigree. Not Arteta.

[Power n Glory]

We have a better squad than Wenger makes them look. A new coach might, for example, work with defenders on defending. Or work with midfielders on how not to pretend to be strikers. Or work with wide players on how to go forwards instead of backwards. Many possibilities.

Our reputation? Alexis and Ozil are clawing the door with bloody fingernails trying to get out. The club is either being laughed at or pitied.

Our ambition? We could scoop a turd out of the bowl and smear it across the dugout and it would show more ambition than letting a senile old goat see out his days because he once knew what he was doing.

That's as it stands. What about next year once we've lost Alexis and Ozil and whoever else? What about when we're left with Wilshere, Welbeck and Iwobi? Not a chance!

The next manager has to be someone that can inspire some sort of hope and someone that can get us back on track quickly.

[Cripps]

That's as it stands. What about next year once we've lost Alexis and Ozil and whoever else? What about when we're left with Wilshere, Welbeck and Iwobi? Not a chance!

The next manager has to be someone that can inspire some sort of hope and someone that can get us back on track quickly.

Exactly. We've got a raft of players leaving over the next 2 years. It's a critical phase. An Arteta coming in would be the final bullet.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's as it stands. What about next year once we've lost Alexis and Ozil and whoever else? What about when we're left with Wilshere, Welbeck and Iwobi? Not a chance!

The next manager has to be someone that can inspire some sort of hope and someone that can get us back on track quickly.

I don’t think there is a single player at this club who wouldn’t be a lot better under a new coaching regime

I don’t think the issue is so much whether Arteta would be a great risk free option. But we are getting to the point where Wenger is such a barrier to positive progress that the risk of appointing someone like Arteta over keeping Wenger is basically negligible.

I’d prefer someone with more reputation, but with reputation comes ego and what we need is someone who will work with a whole new team rather than someone who holds onto too many of the reigns himself. I agree with Vieira that someone like Jardim would be the kind of guy we should go for (or failing that Unai Emery who has fallen out of favour at PSG) or maybe if nothing else we could entice someone like Arteta to understudy an older head to take over in a few years.

[Power n Glory]

We need Ancellotti or someone of his ilk to steady the ship and rebuild the squad...whoever comes in needs to bring in young talented players though, not projects, players who have genuine star quality.

Make no mistake, whoever takes up the post after Wenger leaves has a helluva job on their hands, the lack of quality in the squad is evident but the whole mentality of this football team needs changing, the new guy needs to demand and set a standard that "winning IS EVERYTHING".

We need to rid of Wenger's "loser/anything goes mentality"

For sure. Unless word circulates that Arteta is an absolute beast behind the scenes, I just can’t see this being a good move. I heard he was one of the players everyone respected when he was our captain but his presence wasn’t enough where they were shit scared to put a foot wrong around him. As captain he didn’t command that sort of authority and coming back to Arsenal so quickly after leaving and for his first main job….nah.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don’t think there is a single player at this club who wouldn’t be a lot better under a new coaching regime

I don’t think the issue is so much whether Arteta would be a great risk free option. But we are getting to the point where Wenger is such a barrier to positive progress that the risk of appointing someone like Arteta over keeping Wenger is basically negligible.

I’d prefer someone with more reputation, but with reputation comes ego and what we need is someone who will work with a whole new team rather than someone who holds onto too many of the reigns himself. I agree with Vieira that someone like Jardim would be the kind of guy we should go for (or failing that Unai Emery who has fallen out of favour at PSG) or maybe if nothing else we could entice someone like Arteta to understudy an older head to take over in a few years.

That's right, the ego thing could be a big problem. What we don't want post-Wenger is another my-way or nothing type character. The club will have to go through big changes. The manager's role will need to be downscaled. All of those responsibilities that Wenger grabbed and wouldn't let go of need to be reassigned to the proper people within the club. We're going to need a flexible person in such an environment. Our next manager could quite easily be a stopgap or a short-term appointment while all the transitions are made. Wenger has pretty much assured that this season and next are write-offs in terms of us competing for serious honours. So we should be using the dead time to get ready for 2019. Instead we have the old goat dragging the mediocrity out. Wasting valuable time, setting us back another year at least, probably two because a new guy will need time. Madness. Get him out and get somebody else in. If we can't arrange a big name in time then get anyone in. I'd lay a bet with anyone who wants to take it, no matter who we brought in they'd instantly improve this team, squad and our prospects. Of course they would. How could they not? They'd literally have to engage in sabotage to do a worse job.

[Niall_Quinn]

For sure. Unless word circulates that Arteta is an absolute beast behind the scenes, I just can’t see this being a good move. I heard he was one of the players everyone respected when he was our captain but his presence wasn’t enough where they were shit scared to put a foot wrong around him. As captain he didn’t command that sort of authority and coming back to Arsenal so quickly after leaving and for his first main job….nah.

We're talking theoretical - this was an article from the Daily Star. So it won't be happening. But I'd have no problems whatsoever if it did. I'd be leaping for joy and looking forward to watching the next match.

[Globalgunner]

In reality we can do better than Arteta to replace Wenger, Luis Enrique and Ancelotti are available right now, and if only Wenger was pointedly shown the door at the end of this season, many more managers would make themselves available. Its just a mark of how desperate some of us feel that literally anyone would make us instantly better, simply because of Wengers continual barmy methods and totally insular behavior, another day of his stay is a day we slide further behind in the other clubs. If Steve Bould took over 2mrw we would see our prospects of finishing in the top 4 double in potential. As it is, we are in a race with Pool, Spuds for 4th, which i doubt we will win.

[Cripps]

That's right, the ego thing could be a big problem. What we don't want post-Wenger is another my-way or nothing type character. The club will have to go through big changes. The manager's role will need to be downscaled. All of those responsibilities that Wenger grabbed and wouldn't let go of need to be reassigned to the proper people within the club. We're going to need a flexible person in such an environment. Our next manager could quite easily be a stopgap or a short-term appointment while all the transitions are made. Wenger has pretty much assured that this season and next are write-offs in terms of us competing for serious honours. So we should be using the dead time to get ready for 2019. Instead we have the old goat dragging the mediocrity out. Wasting valuable time, setting us back another year at least, probably two because a new guy will need time. Madness. Get him out and get somebody else in. If we can't arrange a big name in time then get anyone in. I'd lay a bet with anyone who wants to take it, no matter who we brought in they'd instantly improve this team, squad and our prospects. Of course they would. How could they not? They'd literally have to engage in sabotage to do a worse job.

I think behind the scenes we are preparing for Wengers departure. We've hired a director of football albeit given him a different title... that in itself is huge! It's a massive sign that Gazidis is preparing for the old goats departure and ultimately much different to Ferguson's departure for example, where he practically announced it out the blue and they hadn't prepared. They're still seeing the ramifications to this day.

So I don't think there's a need for a stop gap. We can go for a top coach and reduce the responsibility of the new guy coming in. In fact aside from Wenger I can't think of another manager in Europe that operates like he does. He's the last of a dying breed. The likes of Jardim, Allegri etc are happy to work as head coach. There's no need for an Arteta.

[Power n Glory]

We're talking theoretical - this was an article from the Daily Star. So it won't be happening. But I'd have no problems whatsoever if it did. I'd be leaping for joy and looking forward to watching the next match.

That's how you get scammed. So desperate for change that you don't even think to look at the details. Arteta has no history as a coach so we have no idea what we're getting.

[Niall_Quinn]

That's how you get scammed. So desperate for change that you don't even think to look at the details. Arteta has no history as a coach so we have no idea what we're getting.

I'm way, way past being desperate for change. It is now a requirement, not a wish, not a viewpoint, not something that needs to be argued or supported with another mountain of evidence. It's an event that must happen if the club is to move forward or even change in any way. That's why Arteta is a great idea. Or Harry Kane. Couldn't care less. They'll be better than Wenger. But even that's not the main point. The main point is that for somebody to come in, Wenger must go. I'd be happy with Bould. Or nobody, just let the players manage themselves. But everything is just theory and a practical impossibility while that bloke is still here.

Even now, after Wenger has pretty much ruined every aspect of this club, people are trying to do things The Arsenal Way. There is no Arsenal. Only Arsene FC. There is no right way or wrong way to do this. There's only what needs to be done.

But we won't be bringing anyone in. That cunt will not only see out his contract he'll probably get another one. By then the likes of Ancelotti will laugh his arse off at coming to the wreckage Wenger has left behind.

[Cripps]

NQ after a few whiskies :bow:

[Cripps]

Arsenal have scouted Porto star Danilo as Arsene Wenger looks to bolster his midfield options in January, according to reports in Portugal.
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/20/arsenal-scout-porto-midfidler-danilo-arsene-wenger-attempts-solve-long-term-problem-7173098/?ito=cbshare

No idea who he is.

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsenal have scouted Porto star Danilo as Arsene Wenger looks to bolster his midfield options in January, according to reports in Portugal.
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/20/arsenal-scout-porto-midfidler-danilo-arsene-wenger-attempts-solve-long-term-problem-7173098/?ito=cbshare

No idea who he is.

What does it matter. As long as we sign millions of midfielders and no defenders we're golden.

[Bumble]

What does it matter. As long as we sign millions of midfielders and no defenders we're golden.

you do know that just because you sign a midfielder you don't have to play him in the position.

[Cripps]

When we sign N'zonzi and play him as centre back after Per retires there'll be an opportunity for this guy to play right wing when Theo leaves.

[Niall_Quinn]

To add more fuel to the fire, it’s clear Stan K has a new found taste for being a wild one, he signed the youngest coach in NFL history for his LA Rams team and he’s actually seeing some success. According to rumours, he can’t stop telling people how excited he is about that behind the scenes.

https://le-grove.co.uk/2017/12/19/arsenal-leak-arteta-stories-wenger-on-notice/

Wishful thinking? Didn't know this had initially gone to the Telegraph. Slightly more credible than the Daily Star, so who knows?

[Power n Glory]

https://le-grove.co.uk/2017/12/19/arsenal-leak-arteta-stories-wenger-on-notice/

Wishful thinking? Didn't know this had initially gone to the Telegraph. Slightly more credible than the Daily Star, so who knows?

You really have to wonder if the Board are thinking about pushing Wenger off the edge to sign Arteta. Le Grove makes a good argument but he forgets that Simeone didn't just arrive in Spain and start tearing it up. He spent a number of years in Argentina coaching before arriving at Atletico. Zidane and Luis Enrique the worlds best players spread between them at Real and Barcelona. I'm not looking at them as elite at this point. It's a huge risk to take on Arteta and it's great that the club are leaking this story because it shows that Wenger's time is almost over. But what would make them move for Arteta? He must he getting rave reviews behind the scenes got them to overlook so many others.

[Cripps]

If we hired the captain of our banter era as our next manager I think that would officially tip me over the edge.

[Marc Overmars]

You really have to wonder if the Board are thinking about pushing Wenger off the edge to sign Arteta. Le Grove makes a good argument but he forgets that Simeone didn't just arrive in Spain and start tearing it up. He spent a number of years in Argentina coaching before arriving at Atletico. Zidane and Luis Enrique the worlds best players spread between them at Real and Barcelona. I'm not looking at them as elite at this point. It's a huge risk to take on Arteta and it's great that the club are leaking this story because it shows that Wenger's time is almost over. But what would make them move for Arteta? He must he getting rave reviews behind the scenes got them to overlook so many others.

A spineless yes man who would tow the company line? Replacing like for like.

[Power n Glory]

A spineless yes man who would tow the company line? Replacing like for like.

Yep. That's what I'm afraid of.

[Cripps]

If I see that transvestite looking, pouting, eyebrow plucked, mediocre fool on the touchline I'm gonna be seriously annoyed.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yep. That's what I'm afraid of.

I can understand that fear, however the question would be a yes man to who

Kroenke isn’t the micromanaging type. He sacked the LA rams guy because it impacted on his bottom line

That’s kind of going to be the issue. Wenger is going to leave a huge vacuum which is going to have to be filled with multiple new appointments. So hard to know who the new guy would be deferential to (Gazidis presumably)

I’m guessing your concern would be on transfer spending and whether any new guy will make a beef to get funds.

So much will have to change when Wenger finally goes, we will be in completely uncharted territory. And perhaps that doesn’t make it fertile territory for someone green behind the ears.

My preference is still for Unai Emery in a head coach role

[Cripps]

I’m guessing your concern would be on transfer spending and whether any new guy will make a beef to get funds.

Not just transfer spending but:

- charisma
- vision
- ability to motivate players
- leadership
- transfer pedigree
- tactical knowledge & robustness
- coaching pedigree
- managerial experience

I know some of you are desparate but Arteta is not the man.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think the point is, if Arsenal really did leak that story it's the best news we've had out of the club in years. It's like the faint but distant sound of running water in a vast desert.

[Cripps]

I got my hopes up last year when the stories of Tuchel, Allegri and Hasenhüttl came about. The latter even said we got in touch about taking over from Wenger at the end of the season:coffee:

Not getting my hopes up again :coffee:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not just transfer spending but:

- charisma
- vision
- ability to motivate players
- leadership
- transfer pedigree
- tactical knowledge & robustness
- coaching pedigree
- managerial experience

I know some of you are desparate but Arteta is not the man.

Let’s be fair though we actually know very little about Arteta apart from knowing he’s not held a managerial position.

What he did as captain, is not indicative. Because you don’t get captains like Tony Adams or Roy Keane anymore (and neither of them have exactly made a great fist of management).

I get your misgivings I honestly do, this wouldn’t be my first choice by any stretch. And the point you or someone else made about Paul Clement is well taken. But as NQ has said below your response, it’s a positive because if nothing else they are at least starting to look beyond Wenger, it’s taken them long enough.
The appointment of the Dortmund guy and the Barcelona guy does seem to suggest that if nothing else, despite their PR bullshit there is recognition that things aren’t working as they should.

[Globalgunner]

If I see that transvestite looking, pouting, eyebrow plucked, mediocre fool on the touchline I'm gonna be seriously annoyed.

But you have to admit he has got great hair.

[Cripps]

Let’s be fair though we actually know very little about Arteta apart from knowing he’s not held a managerial position.


Thanks for proving my point.